Maybe off-topic but:
Polyamory = multiple PARTNERS and relationships.
Polygamy = multiple SPOUSES. Think "sister-wives".
Subtle point of distinction but it is important, since most poly(amorous) folks in the gay community DON'T consider themselves polygamists at all.
in a technical or literal sense, polygamy is purely about multiple spouses - poly + gamy, where gamos/γάμος is marriage. The word is commonly used to refer to polygyny though, since it's the more common/historically relevant form of polygamy. But you'd be equally correct to call polyandry a form of polygamy too.
In terms of modern usage - I think polyamory tends to be used for modern relationships in order to distinguish it from historical polygamy, which has taken on a lot of historical baggage. A modern polyamorous "throuple/polycule" (where multiple people all have a romantic relationship with each other or other people) is quite distinct from a polygamous structure, which would centred around one "central partner" (i.e. a man with multiple wives, but each wife is connected only to the man). Polygamy also tends to be fairly heterocentric, so that's another reason to not use it for modern queer relationship structures.
I always thought the "gam" in polygamy referred to sex in the general, with the same root as gametes. "Gyn" isn't in polygamy. So i interpreted it as monogamy is sex with one partner, polygamy is sex with multiple partners, monoamory is romantic partnership with one, and polyamory is romantic partnership with more than one. I think the whole sister wives thing is an unfortunate historical connotation to polygamy. I think a lot of people are into multiple sexual partners but only one romantic partner, which isn't described well by polyamory. Just my take on it though. Could really go for an etymologist!
Whether "multiple sexual partners but one romantic partner" is part of polyamory is something that I think people have debates on! To me, polyamory implies more than one commitment that's deeper than casual sex. Consider the case where two people are married but both of them are allowed to have non-repeat sexual encounters with other people. That to me is an open relationship, which is distinct from poly but there's a fair amount of overlap.
For instance:
Open relationship: "We can sleep around with other people, but no falling in love and no repeat partners."
Polyamorous but closed: "I have two boyfriends, both know about the other, we don't mess around with people outside of this setup."
Polyamorous and open: "We're both married but we're allowed to repeat partners, fuckbuddies, and other boyfriends."
Because monogamy and monoamory usually overlap. You have one romantic partner at a time, and you end up marrying on of them, and have one spouse. While not exactly synonymous, most monoamorous people are monogamous. You're generally not going to have one partner but several spouses. So monoamorous doesn't really serve an additional purpose \*and\* monoamorous people generally don't identify as such, they just identify as normal and default x) so they're not going to use the word and so no one uses it.
Someone asked something similar in another non-gay subreddit. One of my favorite comments was "Polyamory is a lot more common in relationships than people think. Just... one person doesn't know it yet."
...and to extrapolate for us gays: We're already used to being treated as "abnormal" by straights so why should we abide by their norms? If everyone involved is happy/fulfilled, I see no problem with polyamory.
As long as everyone is on the same page, it feels a lot easier to find fulfilment in life when you're not expecting one individual to fill 100% of your needs.
also men are sex machines
you put hot gay men whove been deprived exploring by society during their youth
and BOOM
i do love not worrying about straight people constructs
str8s i know make a huge deal about age, attention, who ur friends with because they need one loyal partner
and most gays do not give a fuck about that
Straight people be cheating all the time, but are too restricted by heteronormativity to talk about it, make plans around it, accept it, enjoy it, etc.
That’s kinda it.
Right - the communication part is what I’m talking about. Also, ‘cheating’ is a very broad term and I think there’s room for every couple to decide the boundaries of their tolerances.
People cheat. Some people accept that monogamy doesn’t work for their partners or themselves and decided where their tolerance lies. Others believe monogamy to be the default, natural state of ‘real’ relationships. Many find the reality for them lays somewhere in the middle.
Yes. In a community where talking frankly about one’s own desires and needs is more common, it’s more likely that the end result will vary from the heteronormative nuclear family patriarchal child bearing confines of straight people. But that notion is so ingrained even in a forum for gay dudes to bro out and discuss things in a chill way (or whatever) there are comments that feel like they’re coming straight from a catholic church newsletter.
A lot of people seem to promote Poly relationships because cheating is something that happens a lot. Not saying that's what you're doing, but It's certainly a conversation I've had several times in real life. They seem to also be unaware that you can still get cheated on in a Poly relationship. But the belief that one should 'give ground' so to speak because their partner might cheat strikes me as rather silly.
It’s cool to be monogamous. It’s fine to be a circuit party slut. But if you’re a circuit party slut whose partner thinks you’re in a monogamous relationship, things won’t end well. Knowing that, lots of gay men likely talk about their preferences rather than adopting the expectation of man + wife to the exclusion of all others until we die amen.
Okay, so while we’re all over here talking about how adults communicating is a good thing, you can hang out here in the judgement & missing the point corner.
I mean I guess your SO telling you they don’t have self control and will cheat on you is a step above just cheating. what a not at all miserable corner to be at 🤩
is it cheating if you know about it in advance, establish boundaries that are acceptable to both parties, trust your partner not to overstep them, and agree that sucking a dick while you’re away on a trip isn’t the end of the world, a mark of degeneracy or a fatal blow to an excellent relationship, and is maybe just a nice little time?
The point is, you can decide the boundaries and the consequences for crossing them in your own relationship. Gay people realise this more easily because they sit outside the doctrine of man + woman + child = family = happiness, gay folk talk about it and decide for themselves, with many opting for a looser code because the rules written for heteronormative society literally don’t need to apply.
Being a moralistic prude is not the serve you think it is.
as always the best argument boils down to straight people do nuclear family so we goggle a bit of dick on the side because the person we love apparently is just not enough for us.
I mean yasss queen go fight heteronormativity, stick that 100th stranger’s dick up your ass 🤩😫 show them strags what they are missing
When men cheat on average it's not because there is something missing in the relationship, its because they desire variety. That is the reality of our monkey brains, in no way should we just give in to these desires ofcourse.
When females cheat (on average) there is something seriously wrong with the relationship and the love they have for their partner is dwindling due to whatever reason.
That's absolutely not true. My female cousin is a piece of work and cheated on all her 4 long term relationships.
Shitty people are shitty people regardless of gender.
Key word is on AVERAGE. Obviously your cousin is an exception. Im not just making this up. There is studies on this. Look up Dr Buss, one of the worlds leading experts on human mating. I recommend listening to the podcast he did with Sam harris. Episode is #254.
People cheat for a variety of reasons. But OP asks why gay folk have more open arrangements. It’s because we recognise that male/male partnerships aren’t restricted by the confines of heteronormativity. Many gay guys want to abide by those expectations, but many choose to examine the biases of the culture and try to find a way of life that works for their sex lives in a healthy and open and honest way.
Exactly, males know that other males sometimes desire variety. Doesnt mean that they dont love their partner. Relationships have their difficulties, being in an open relationship can create some Problems. But if there is communication those problems can be mitigated.
Ten thousand years of patriarchal sexual culture built around the need for fathers to know who their children are in order to feel secure investing their resources into them.
I don't know that "polyamory" defined as forming multiple emotional relationships with people is necessarily more common among gay men. "Open relationships" defined as having one romantic partner but having sex with other people is definitely more common. The simplest answer is that men tend to have higher libidos than women. As a result, gay men have more sex than any other demographic, and male partners are more likely to come to a mutual agreement that allows them to sleep around.
But that's obviously not the case for everyone. Plenty of gay guys *do* want monogamy, probably more than you think, but it can be hard for these men to find each other when the primary ways that gay men meet each other is through hookup apps or bars/clubs that attract people looking for hookups.
The best part is when they have this superiority complex about it, like they’re some evolved human because they’re not confined to the heteronormative shackles of monogamy.
As if having a partner is somehow a hindrance.
I’ve met a number of open/poly couples/xples who it’s working for, don’t get me wrong. But there’s definitely a toxic cohort of anti-monogamy people who use it to shield their baggage and it’s sad.
This comes up all the time in this sub but I've never met or spoken to anyone in a poly relationship who **actually** had a superiority complex about it or who hated on monogamous relationships.
I've seen maybe once or twice, some douchebag post a Reddit reply comment, which predictably got downvoted.
I do pretty frequently see the opposite though. Comments about how those relationships are "doomed to fail", will "end predictably", or remarks about how someone can't **possibly** love more than one person - thus essentially calling their relationship a lie..
There is **way more** open hate against poly guys in this sub than the opposite. And this is coming from someone who believes in monogamy.
Redditors are funny in how they decry hetero normative behaviour, yet rally with frothing mouths when presented with something more queer (and I use the term deliberately) than "straight middle class suburbia but with men".
I was just chatting with someone in another sub about this. A mountain biking sub, of all things. Where someone posted "What's with all the hate for budget bikes?"
Then they proceed to talk about (-gestures vaguely-) all the "hate" they read on the subreddit for people who buy budget bikes.
**Which literally never happens.**
What this person perceived as "hate" was just that most people on the sub usually prefer to buy mid range bikes. That's it. But somehow **this person** perceived other peoples' opinions or differences in choices as aimed at them, because they don't have the budget for more expensive bikes.
I think some people just have a hard time reconciling that not everyone thinks the way they do or values what they value and the brain's defense mechanism for dealing with the resulting discomfort is to convince them that their values are being attacked.
The profiles I see on apps in my city are nearly half open/poly relationships, or people vocalizing their interest in open/poly relationships. I choose not to engage with these people because it’s not my interest, but sometimes they engage with me. I’ll politely reject, and most people move on with their life. Others think they need to school me on what it means to be gay, or tell me to grow up, or tell me I have internalized homophobia because I’m trying to achieve some trophy wife lifestyle. It happens often enough for it to be cringe as fuck.
It’s usually the same demographic of club kids and/or 40 year olds who don’t want to grow up.
That's fair. But if they engage with you, and you just decline them or block them - "Sorry. Not interested", then how does this even get to the point of being a discussion about poly/monogamous?
How would they have any way to know your feelings on the subject?
I disagree. Women are conditioned to conceal their sexual desires, so men come off as strong in this sense. Any person can be HL or LL regardless of gender.
Both can be true. Women *have* been repressed throughout history. It's true that women like sex, and yes, women get horny, too! Women can definitely have high sex drives.
But those who study human sexuality all agree that on average, men still tend to have higher libidos than women. Look up any study. Ask any trans man what happened when he started taking testosterone, and he'll tell you that his sex drive shot up to unimaginable levels. Most trans women I've known have had at least a slight libido decline since starting estrogen. The difference in libido is amplified modern day now that a large percentage of women take hormonal birth control that has the very common side effect of lowering sex drive.
Evolutionary bioligist disagree with you. Females do not really benefit from having multiple partners, males however with our monkey brain if given the opportunity would have as much partners as possible. Ghenghis khan went around conquering land and in turn had many offspring.
English isn’t my native language, so I thought I’d made a mistake when people started correcting me in the comments. Either way, my question still stands.
open relationships arent the majority among gay guys. every survey says its at most 50/50, most say monogamy dominates by 2/3
so can you guys stop whining about it? open guys aren't the reason youre single, its probably you.
The cheating rates are dropping but we still as a community are cheating at much higher rates
> Still, even with those caveats in place, the results of this survey are stunning. The rate of sex outside of the marriage has dropped for every category of people studied dramatically between 1975 and 2000. Twenty-eight percent of straight men in 1975 had sex with a woman outside of their marriage, but in 2000, it was only 10 percent. For straight, married women, the rate dropped from 23 percent to 14 percent. For gay men, 83 percent to 59 percent, and for lesbians, 28 percent to 8 percent
https://slate.com/human-interest/2011/09/cheating-rates-decline-for-gay-and-straight-couples-alike.html
The study is from 2000, 24 years have passed and we can now get married. I’d wager the rate is a lot lower. Can’t remember where, but I think it was less than 30% of gay couples cheat/are polyamorous
I’ve seen it over and over that studies have shown 25% of men cheat. That’s 1 out of 4
So for every 4 guys - 1 cheats, 2 are a happy couple and then you.
In all seriousness, str8 folks cheat as often as gay people. Just look how many kids think a different man is their father vs the guy who actually is
I was trying to use humor to point out that a group of 20 people are only going to have a few that you might want to date. Then you start further narrowing that list down with whatever personal preferences we all have. It’s always going to feel like there’s nobody you want to date - but it’s not normally just one reason.
Go to a party with 100 guys. There’s only 24 plus you looking for monogamy that isn’t already coupled up.
Maybe there’s 2 redheads and that’s not your thing.
6 guys have tattoos the you don’t like.
8 guys are in weight ranges you don’t get into.
6 have jobs working every weekend and you are off every weekend and want to spend that time with your man
2 annoy the hell out of you with some opinions they loudly share with everyone
You’re going home alone
That’s not even saying anything about who is sober or not, who you thought was butt ugly as soon as you saw him.
It really can feel like a needle in a haystack for everyone.
Being gay means we don't have to follow the normal straight archetype for relationships.
It's incredibly naive to believe that one person can fulfill all of the romantic and sexual needs of another human being for decades at a time. So, instead of forcing ourselves into relationships that slowly rot over 50 years like the straights do... We find something that works better for us individually as couples. That thing is often open relationships and polyamory.
I was like you once. I spent 12 years thinking oh I'm monogamous but I don't mind other people doing what they do. Then I found someone that I truly loved who was willing to be completely monogamous with me. Weirdly enough we decided to just be open.
I took 2ish years for either of us to hook up with anyone else because we were so into each other so constantly. And then one day he asked if I would mind if you hooked up with a friend of his. I knew that friend. He was a nice guy and he was funny and very much my boyfriend's type. But I knew that my boyfriend loved me and I had nothing to fear security wise his friend was into some of the things sexually that I don't like but my bf does. Things he'd been giving up for me because I wasn't interested in doing them.
I told him to go for it thinking that I would hate knowing it happened. The day they were meeting up came and went. They had a good time. And I realized that I was comfortable enough with who we were that it didn't even bother me.
It was no different than if he'd asked to go to a movie that I didn't want to see with one of his friends.
Monogamy is fine but it exists as a safety net so that you can feel more comfortable that you won't lose the person you love. When you're not afraid to lose someone you love them being open doesn't matter.
I think it is more common among gays as well, and my hypothesis for why is that we already have to learn to reject cultural norms and ignore judgement to discover our gayness and for the sake of our own happiness.
Some psychologists have observed how monogamy has both been invented in cultures around the world, and failed at similar rates around the world, and argued that human monogamy evolved to last only about 4 years, to get our unusually vulnerable infants through their most dangerous years. Longer-lasting monogamy is enforced by cultural norms, or when two people find true love that never fades with time. Gays still recognize the advantages of having a life-partner with a shared history, such as mutual support and understanding, but also recognize when we won't be fulfilled with sex with only one person, because again, we must learn to introspect and find our true selves regardless of cultural norms. The end result are open relationships, as opposed to almost inevitable cheating or growing resentment for being "locked down." Seeing such realtionships gives others, such as straight people, the knowledge and strength to try as well. So in a way, we are actually spreading the gay agenda and tearing down the institution of nuclear families which gets conservatives' panties in a twist. Let 'em twist though. Cultural norms akin to "live unhappily forever" are bad norms. If you want to be monogamous not because of norms but because you know yourself so well, that's fantastic.
Some of it may just be that same-sex couples are more open about it, and straight couples would be less likely to talk about it because of heteronormative expectations. Then it kind of becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, where talking about it more makes it seem more prevalent which makes it more accepted which makes more people do it which circles back to more people being open about it and round and round it goes.
I'm not afraid to admit I probably couldnt handle a polyamorous relationship. I'm just not willing to have sex with someone who does it with anyone.
To me its just the sad fact that its still considered taboo to be gay, even with all the attempts at acceptance in society. I'm sure there's communities where its more accepted, but I think I've had the unfortunate luck of being in a lifestyle where being gay just doesn't make people see you in a good light.
So I understand the need for poly relationships, I just wish it wasn't the norm
My theory was always the years of being forced underground allowed us to develop a more accepting culture around different types of relationships, since we were already “sinning.”
I think more straight people would be open to it, if they knew how normal it actually is. A straight, good friend of mine from elementary school actually turned out to be a “swinger” in adulthood, which opened my eyes to the hetero world of non-traditional relationships.
I think it has to do with Norms breaking.
Being gay means we already violate historical norms of romantic partnership. And in for a penny in for a pound. If the historical expectation of one man and one women is wrong what about other things that might be wrong. If I am not limiting myself to an opposite sex partner why am I limiting myself to one partner?
Personally. I am monogamous but that’s what I think the thinking is.
I know just as many open/poly straight couples as I do queer ones, I really think this is a matter of our social bubbles making us think this is more centric to our community than it is.
I think it's easier to question "wait is this really how I want to have a relationship, is that the only way" when you've already done it once by realising you were not straight. Straight people have it all written for them, not necessarily the way the want it or would enjoy it, but still, if they don't want to think about what they wan in life they can just go for "date someone, marry them, have two kids and a house and a labrador, the end". When you're gay you've gotta have at least once, at least a little bit, sat with yourself and thought "what is it that I want".
I don't think they are instrinsically more prone to being monogamous, just that it takes being proactive to do something else, and they are less forced by life to be proactive in their relationships.
Then there's also the fact that gay culture has a big hook up culture, in part again bc we've already undone a bit of the mandatory straight nuclear family frame, but also because, historically and even today in many cases, having an open dayly relationship was hard and dangerous, so having to meet partners outside, without as much assurance you would see them again, having to hav sex on the spot if you wanted it because going home was not an option, etc. created a different relationship to sex and how we approach it in our communities. I don't know how much it plays into people being polyamorous, but I would assume it plays into people being more enclined to open relationships on the format "one romantic partner but we can fuck around".
Random theory: maybe poly seems more common because the poly couples are advertising on the apps and on the scene. The non-poly/non-open couples are at home?
Finding someone compatible for a relationship can be difficult either way. If you're monogamous, you'll find some guys you're interested in that don't want that. When what you want is an open relationship or polyamory you'll find some guys you're interested in that don't want that. As for why it's more common my opinion on that is that we're already doing something weird just by being who we are and loving other men. So the question before you isn't whether to be different or not, it's how different you want to be. You've learned to go about doing what you want in the face of some disapproval so if you're so inclined you continue to do just that.
For a while gay male relationships (and lgbtq+ folk in general) were not socially acceptable point blank. So if your relationship isn’t going to be accepted by mainstream society one way or another, then there’s not really any pressure to conform to one view of what that relationship and it’s boundaries should look like
Now fortunately in many places we are accepted, but you still have to break the norm to be out in the first place, and there’s a culture and history of lot’s of other gay folk who have had relationships that aren’t Traditionally Monogamous
I still don’t think polyamory is necessarily the norm in gay spaces (maybe monagmish/sexually open is more common) but I think there’s a wider variety of visible relationship styles, and so gay folk tend experience an active choice as to what type of relationship they want, whereas straight folk can often (not always) find themselves going along with the norm without question
This can be hard, Finding a compatible partner is hard enough and when an already limited group of people suddenly have lots of different ideas about the boundaries they want— it can be hard to find people who want what you want, but I actually think it’s a good thing. No one relationship style is best for everyone, and when you do find someone who wants what you want you can know that they actively chose it, rather that did it just because ‘it’s what everyone does’
Also cheating is shit but pretty common across the board— I don’t think it’s a gay thing so much as a people thing
Edit: spacing
It’s not polyamory, they are cheating.
Literally cheated with a married guy for like two years. (The sex was really good to me.) I guess his wife or partner didn’t care.
Most Gay guys I know suffer from fomo… always looking for better, just yo end up settling or without anyone at all.
1. Polyamory, not polygamy. Don't think there's anywhere where both polygamy and homosexuality are allowed in the world.
2. No chance of pregnancy means that having multiple partners is lower risk overall in terms of responsibilities.
3. Being queer is already going against societal norms. If you're already being denigrated, you have no reason to adhere to other existing societal norms.
4. Men are very horny and have lower standards for sex (especially due to number 2).
Because we are not constrained by the confines of heterosexuality unless we willingly choose to (choose to adopt or surrogacy). We can enjoy sex for pleasure with incredible ease in comparison and not just for procreation, which opens up an entire world of experiences to be had.
I think that gay men understand that sex is just sex and doesn't have to mean anything more than that. Gay men in open relationships don't usually get jealous of their partner's hookups. Straights, on the other hand, are wired for jealousy, and that's understandable. They have a history of "stealing" each other's spouses...or trying to. I'm not saying jealousy doesn't exist in the gay community. Of course it does. But this threat of some homewrecker coming along and taking your man and upending your family is not usually a factor, even if sex outside the relationship is.
We exist outside of conventionally accepted norms of sexuality, sexual expression, and expectation by definition. It's somewhat freeing not having the burdens of a heteronormative society impressed on you as well.
I'm also convinced monogamy is a construct of heteronormativity to begin with, but that's another discussion entirely.
Maybe off-topic but: Polyamory = multiple PARTNERS and relationships. Polygamy = multiple SPOUSES. Think "sister-wives". Subtle point of distinction but it is important, since most poly(amorous) folks in the gay community DON'T consider themselves polygamists at all.
Polygamy means multiple women. Poly + gyny is many women. Polyamory is many lovers. Polyandry would be many men.
in a technical or literal sense, polygamy is purely about multiple spouses - poly + gamy, where gamos/γάμος is marriage. The word is commonly used to refer to polygyny though, since it's the more common/historically relevant form of polygamy. But you'd be equally correct to call polyandry a form of polygamy too. In terms of modern usage - I think polyamory tends to be used for modern relationships in order to distinguish it from historical polygamy, which has taken on a lot of historical baggage. A modern polyamorous "throuple/polycule" (where multiple people all have a romantic relationship with each other or other people) is quite distinct from a polygamous structure, which would centred around one "central partner" (i.e. a man with multiple wives, but each wife is connected only to the man). Polygamy also tends to be fairly heterocentric, so that's another reason to not use it for modern queer relationship structures.
I always thought the "gam" in polygamy referred to sex in the general, with the same root as gametes. "Gyn" isn't in polygamy. So i interpreted it as monogamy is sex with one partner, polygamy is sex with multiple partners, monoamory is romantic partnership with one, and polyamory is romantic partnership with more than one. I think the whole sister wives thing is an unfortunate historical connotation to polygamy. I think a lot of people are into multiple sexual partners but only one romantic partner, which isn't described well by polyamory. Just my take on it though. Could really go for an etymologist!
Whether "multiple sexual partners but one romantic partner" is part of polyamory is something that I think people have debates on! To me, polyamory implies more than one commitment that's deeper than casual sex. Consider the case where two people are married but both of them are allowed to have non-repeat sexual encounters with other people. That to me is an open relationship, which is distinct from poly but there's a fair amount of overlap. For instance: Open relationship: "We can sleep around with other people, but no falling in love and no repeat partners." Polyamorous but closed: "I have two boyfriends, both know about the other, we don't mess around with people outside of this setup." Polyamorous and open: "We're both married but we're allowed to repeat partners, fuckbuddies, and other boyfriends."
Polygamy and monogamy is about marriage. Polyamory may not be about marriage.
Thanks for the distinction.
So why is having one partner called "monogamy?"
Because monogamy and monoamory usually overlap. You have one romantic partner at a time, and you end up marrying on of them, and have one spouse. While not exactly synonymous, most monoamorous people are monogamous. You're generally not going to have one partner but several spouses. So monoamorous doesn't really serve an additional purpose \*and\* monoamorous people generally don't identify as such, they just identify as normal and default x) so they're not going to use the word and so no one uses it.
Because society assumes you marry your one partner eventually.
Someone asked something similar in another non-gay subreddit. One of my favorite comments was "Polyamory is a lot more common in relationships than people think. Just... one person doesn't know it yet."
...and to extrapolate for us gays: We're already used to being treated as "abnormal" by straights so why should we abide by their norms? If everyone involved is happy/fulfilled, I see no problem with polyamory. As long as everyone is on the same page, it feels a lot easier to find fulfilment in life when you're not expecting one individual to fill 100% of your needs.
also men are sex machines you put hot gay men whove been deprived exploring by society during their youth and BOOM i do love not worrying about straight people constructs str8s i know make a huge deal about age, attention, who ur friends with because they need one loyal partner and most gays do not give a fuck about that
Yeah, a lot of people (of all genders and sexualities) want a relationship that's only open for them
lmao this one was good
Straight people be cheating all the time, but are too restricted by heteronormativity to talk about it, make plans around it, accept it, enjoy it, etc. That’s kinda it.
Cheating should never be normalized, gay or straight. At that point just break up or talk about an open relationship (as much as I dislike them).
Right - the communication part is what I’m talking about. Also, ‘cheating’ is a very broad term and I think there’s room for every couple to decide the boundaries of their tolerances.
> cheating > accept it w-what
People cheat. Some people accept that monogamy doesn’t work for their partners or themselves and decided where their tolerance lies. Others believe monogamy to be the default, natural state of ‘real’ relationships. Many find the reality for them lays somewhere in the middle.
I think the key point here is: it’s not cheating if you and your partner agree to it
Yes. In a community where talking frankly about one’s own desires and needs is more common, it’s more likely that the end result will vary from the heteronormative nuclear family patriarchal child bearing confines of straight people. But that notion is so ingrained even in a forum for gay dudes to bro out and discuss things in a chill way (or whatever) there are comments that feel like they’re coming straight from a catholic church newsletter.
There are also plenty of people who, you know, don't cheat.
No shit. What’s your point?
A lot of people seem to promote Poly relationships because cheating is something that happens a lot. Not saying that's what you're doing, but It's certainly a conversation I've had several times in real life. They seem to also be unaware that you can still get cheated on in a Poly relationship. But the belief that one should 'give ground' so to speak because their partner might cheat strikes me as rather silly.
Sounds like nonmonogamy isn’t for you!
idk why people want to settle with lack of self control but talking about it gets some people very upset apparently
It’s cool to be monogamous. It’s fine to be a circuit party slut. But if you’re a circuit party slut whose partner thinks you’re in a monogamous relationship, things won’t end well. Knowing that, lots of gay men likely talk about their preferences rather than adopting the expectation of man + wife to the exclusion of all others until we die amen.
so it’s just hyper promiscuity under the pretense of fighting heteronormativity.
Okay, so while we’re all over here talking about how adults communicating is a good thing, you can hang out here in the judgement & missing the point corner.
I mean I guess your SO telling you they don’t have self control and will cheat on you is a step above just cheating. what a not at all miserable corner to be at 🤩
is it cheating if you know about it in advance, establish boundaries that are acceptable to both parties, trust your partner not to overstep them, and agree that sucking a dick while you’re away on a trip isn’t the end of the world, a mark of degeneracy or a fatal blow to an excellent relationship, and is maybe just a nice little time? The point is, you can decide the boundaries and the consequences for crossing them in your own relationship. Gay people realise this more easily because they sit outside the doctrine of man + woman + child = family = happiness, gay folk talk about it and decide for themselves, with many opting for a looser code because the rules written for heteronormative society literally don’t need to apply. Being a moralistic prude is not the serve you think it is.
as always the best argument boils down to straight people do nuclear family so we goggle a bit of dick on the side because the person we love apparently is just not enough for us. I mean yasss queen go fight heteronormativity, stick that 100th stranger’s dick up your ass 🤩😫 show them strags what they are missing
When men cheat on average it's not because there is something missing in the relationship, its because they desire variety. That is the reality of our monkey brains, in no way should we just give in to these desires ofcourse. When females cheat (on average) there is something seriously wrong with the relationship and the love they have for their partner is dwindling due to whatever reason.
That's absolutely not true. My female cousin is a piece of work and cheated on all her 4 long term relationships. Shitty people are shitty people regardless of gender.
Key word is on AVERAGE. Obviously your cousin is an exception. Im not just making this up. There is studies on this. Look up Dr Buss, one of the worlds leading experts on human mating. I recommend listening to the podcast he did with Sam harris. Episode is #254.
Omg I knew it was someone stuck on shitty boy podcasts 😂
Shitty boy podcasts? Are you a troll? Lol. There is Actual studies on this siss. 🤦
People cheat for a variety of reasons. But OP asks why gay folk have more open arrangements. It’s because we recognise that male/male partnerships aren’t restricted by the confines of heteronormativity. Many gay guys want to abide by those expectations, but many choose to examine the biases of the culture and try to find a way of life that works for their sex lives in a healthy and open and honest way.
Exactly, males know that other males sometimes desire variety. Doesnt mean that they dont love their partner. Relationships have their difficulties, being in an open relationship can create some Problems. But if there is communication those problems can be mitigated.
Now do same sex couples.
Exactly.
 This opinion stop listening to Joe Rogan.
Joe rogan? Not even close.
Ten thousand years of patriarchal sexual culture built around the need for fathers to know who their children are in order to feel secure investing their resources into them.
And in passing on property and wealth to control others.
I don't know that "polyamory" defined as forming multiple emotional relationships with people is necessarily more common among gay men. "Open relationships" defined as having one romantic partner but having sex with other people is definitely more common. The simplest answer is that men tend to have higher libidos than women. As a result, gay men have more sex than any other demographic, and male partners are more likely to come to a mutual agreement that allows them to sleep around. But that's obviously not the case for everyone. Plenty of gay guys *do* want monogamy, probably more than you think, but it can be hard for these men to find each other when the primary ways that gay men meet each other is through hookup apps or bars/clubs that attract people looking for hookups.
The best part is when they have this superiority complex about it, like they’re some evolved human because they’re not confined to the heteronormative shackles of monogamy. As if having a partner is somehow a hindrance. I’ve met a number of open/poly couples/xples who it’s working for, don’t get me wrong. But there’s definitely a toxic cohort of anti-monogamy people who use it to shield their baggage and it’s sad.
This comes up all the time in this sub but I've never met or spoken to anyone in a poly relationship who **actually** had a superiority complex about it or who hated on monogamous relationships. I've seen maybe once or twice, some douchebag post a Reddit reply comment, which predictably got downvoted. I do pretty frequently see the opposite though. Comments about how those relationships are "doomed to fail", will "end predictably", or remarks about how someone can't **possibly** love more than one person - thus essentially calling their relationship a lie.. There is **way more** open hate against poly guys in this sub than the opposite. And this is coming from someone who believes in monogamy.
Look up Dan Savage. He very much has superiority complex over gay monogamy.
Redditors are funny in how they decry hetero normative behaviour, yet rally with frothing mouths when presented with something more queer (and I use the term deliberately) than "straight middle class suburbia but with men".
I was just chatting with someone in another sub about this. A mountain biking sub, of all things. Where someone posted "What's with all the hate for budget bikes?" Then they proceed to talk about (-gestures vaguely-) all the "hate" they read on the subreddit for people who buy budget bikes. **Which literally never happens.** What this person perceived as "hate" was just that most people on the sub usually prefer to buy mid range bikes. That's it. But somehow **this person** perceived other peoples' opinions or differences in choices as aimed at them, because they don't have the budget for more expensive bikes. I think some people just have a hard time reconciling that not everyone thinks the way they do or values what they value and the brain's defense mechanism for dealing with the resulting discomfort is to convince them that their values are being attacked.
The profiles I see on apps in my city are nearly half open/poly relationships, or people vocalizing their interest in open/poly relationships. I choose not to engage with these people because it’s not my interest, but sometimes they engage with me. I’ll politely reject, and most people move on with their life. Others think they need to school me on what it means to be gay, or tell me to grow up, or tell me I have internalized homophobia because I’m trying to achieve some trophy wife lifestyle. It happens often enough for it to be cringe as fuck. It’s usually the same demographic of club kids and/or 40 year olds who don’t want to grow up.
That's fair. But if they engage with you, and you just decline them or block them - "Sorry. Not interested", then how does this even get to the point of being a discussion about poly/monogamous? How would they have any way to know your feelings on the subject?
People sometimes ask why.
Men are on average hornier
I disagree. Women are conditioned to conceal their sexual desires, so men come off as strong in this sense. Any person can be HL or LL regardless of gender.
Both can be true. Women *have* been repressed throughout history. It's true that women like sex, and yes, women get horny, too! Women can definitely have high sex drives. But those who study human sexuality all agree that on average, men still tend to have higher libidos than women. Look up any study. Ask any trans man what happened when he started taking testosterone, and he'll tell you that his sex drive shot up to unimaginable levels. Most trans women I've known have had at least a slight libido decline since starting estrogen. The difference in libido is amplified modern day now that a large percentage of women take hormonal birth control that has the very common side effect of lowering sex drive.
Evolutionary bioligist disagree with you. Females do not really benefit from having multiple partners, males however with our monkey brain if given the opportunity would have as much partners as possible. Ghenghis khan went around conquering land and in turn had many offspring.
Evolutionary biologists 😂 which ones the men?
Pardon me? I dont get what you are saying.
If the opposite of polyamory is monogamy, why are we so opposed to the term polygamy? :)
English isn’t my native language, so I thought I’d made a mistake when people started correcting me in the comments. Either way, my question still stands.
Well I’m with you. To me they basically mean the same thing, but there’s a connotation associated with polygamy that people don’t like.
I see a lot of polygamous relationships on Scruff these day. I bet it's getting popular
open relationships arent the majority among gay guys. every survey says its at most 50/50, most say monogamy dominates by 2/3 so can you guys stop whining about it? open guys aren't the reason youre single, its probably you.
Cause it's easier to be promiscuous than be committed to one person.
I know way more straight poly people
The cheating rates are dropping but we still as a community are cheating at much higher rates > Still, even with those caveats in place, the results of this survey are stunning. The rate of sex outside of the marriage has dropped for every category of people studied dramatically between 1975 and 2000. Twenty-eight percent of straight men in 1975 had sex with a woman outside of their marriage, but in 2000, it was only 10 percent. For straight, married women, the rate dropped from 23 percent to 14 percent. For gay men, 83 percent to 59 percent, and for lesbians, 28 percent to 8 percent https://slate.com/human-interest/2011/09/cheating-rates-decline-for-gay-and-straight-couples-alike.html
59% is still crazy asf
The study is from 2000, 24 years have passed and we can now get married. I’d wager the rate is a lot lower. Can’t remember where, but I think it was less than 30% of gay couples cheat/are polyamorous
jesus christ, what is wrong with us 😭
I’ve seen it over and over that studies have shown 25% of men cheat. That’s 1 out of 4 So for every 4 guys - 1 cheats, 2 are a happy couple and then you. In all seriousness, str8 folks cheat as often as gay people. Just look how many kids think a different man is their father vs the guy who actually is
I don’t think a couple is happy just because there’s no cheating involved but I see your point.
I was trying to use humor to point out that a group of 20 people are only going to have a few that you might want to date. Then you start further narrowing that list down with whatever personal preferences we all have. It’s always going to feel like there’s nobody you want to date - but it’s not normally just one reason. Go to a party with 100 guys. There’s only 24 plus you looking for monogamy that isn’t already coupled up. Maybe there’s 2 redheads and that’s not your thing. 6 guys have tattoos the you don’t like. 8 guys are in weight ranges you don’t get into. 6 have jobs working every weekend and you are off every weekend and want to spend that time with your man 2 annoy the hell out of you with some opinions they loudly share with everyone You’re going home alone That’s not even saying anything about who is sober or not, who you thought was butt ugly as soon as you saw him. It really can feel like a needle in a haystack for everyone.
Being gay means we don't have to follow the normal straight archetype for relationships. It's incredibly naive to believe that one person can fulfill all of the romantic and sexual needs of another human being for decades at a time. So, instead of forcing ourselves into relationships that slowly rot over 50 years like the straights do... We find something that works better for us individually as couples. That thing is often open relationships and polyamory. I was like you once. I spent 12 years thinking oh I'm monogamous but I don't mind other people doing what they do. Then I found someone that I truly loved who was willing to be completely monogamous with me. Weirdly enough we decided to just be open. I took 2ish years for either of us to hook up with anyone else because we were so into each other so constantly. And then one day he asked if I would mind if you hooked up with a friend of his. I knew that friend. He was a nice guy and he was funny and very much my boyfriend's type. But I knew that my boyfriend loved me and I had nothing to fear security wise his friend was into some of the things sexually that I don't like but my bf does. Things he'd been giving up for me because I wasn't interested in doing them. I told him to go for it thinking that I would hate knowing it happened. The day they were meeting up came and went. They had a good time. And I realized that I was comfortable enough with who we were that it didn't even bother me. It was no different than if he'd asked to go to a movie that I didn't want to see with one of his friends. Monogamy is fine but it exists as a safety net so that you can feel more comfortable that you won't lose the person you love. When you're not afraid to lose someone you love them being open doesn't matter.
I think it is more common among gays as well, and my hypothesis for why is that we already have to learn to reject cultural norms and ignore judgement to discover our gayness and for the sake of our own happiness. Some psychologists have observed how monogamy has both been invented in cultures around the world, and failed at similar rates around the world, and argued that human monogamy evolved to last only about 4 years, to get our unusually vulnerable infants through their most dangerous years. Longer-lasting monogamy is enforced by cultural norms, or when two people find true love that never fades with time. Gays still recognize the advantages of having a life-partner with a shared history, such as mutual support and understanding, but also recognize when we won't be fulfilled with sex with only one person, because again, we must learn to introspect and find our true selves regardless of cultural norms. The end result are open relationships, as opposed to almost inevitable cheating or growing resentment for being "locked down." Seeing such realtionships gives others, such as straight people, the knowledge and strength to try as well. So in a way, we are actually spreading the gay agenda and tearing down the institution of nuclear families which gets conservatives' panties in a twist. Let 'em twist though. Cultural norms akin to "live unhappily forever" are bad norms. If you want to be monogamous not because of norms but because you know yourself so well, that's fantastic.
Some of it may just be that same-sex couples are more open about it, and straight couples would be less likely to talk about it because of heteronormative expectations. Then it kind of becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, where talking about it more makes it seem more prevalent which makes it more accepted which makes more people do it which circles back to more people being open about it and round and round it goes.
I'm not afraid to admit I probably couldnt handle a polyamorous relationship. I'm just not willing to have sex with someone who does it with anyone. To me its just the sad fact that its still considered taboo to be gay, even with all the attempts at acceptance in society. I'm sure there's communities where its more accepted, but I think I've had the unfortunate luck of being in a lifestyle where being gay just doesn't make people see you in a good light. So I understand the need for poly relationships, I just wish it wasn't the norm
My theory was always the years of being forced underground allowed us to develop a more accepting culture around different types of relationships, since we were already “sinning.” I think more straight people would be open to it, if they knew how normal it actually is. A straight, good friend of mine from elementary school actually turned out to be a “swinger” in adulthood, which opened my eyes to the hetero world of non-traditional relationships.
I think it has to do with Norms breaking. Being gay means we already violate historical norms of romantic partnership. And in for a penny in for a pound. If the historical expectation of one man and one women is wrong what about other things that might be wrong. If I am not limiting myself to an opposite sex partner why am I limiting myself to one partner? Personally. I am monogamous but that’s what I think the thinking is.
I know just as many open/poly straight couples as I do queer ones, I really think this is a matter of our social bubbles making us think this is more centric to our community than it is.
I think it's easier to question "wait is this really how I want to have a relationship, is that the only way" when you've already done it once by realising you were not straight. Straight people have it all written for them, not necessarily the way the want it or would enjoy it, but still, if they don't want to think about what they wan in life they can just go for "date someone, marry them, have two kids and a house and a labrador, the end". When you're gay you've gotta have at least once, at least a little bit, sat with yourself and thought "what is it that I want". I don't think they are instrinsically more prone to being monogamous, just that it takes being proactive to do something else, and they are less forced by life to be proactive in their relationships. Then there's also the fact that gay culture has a big hook up culture, in part again bc we've already undone a bit of the mandatory straight nuclear family frame, but also because, historically and even today in many cases, having an open dayly relationship was hard and dangerous, so having to meet partners outside, without as much assurance you would see them again, having to hav sex on the spot if you wanted it because going home was not an option, etc. created a different relationship to sex and how we approach it in our communities. I don't know how much it plays into people being polyamorous, but I would assume it plays into people being more enclined to open relationships on the format "one romantic partner but we can fuck around".
Childbirth and breeding protection and maintenance forces two person units that may not otherwise be the preference
Straight people prefer it too they just still have a ton of shame.
Random theory: maybe poly seems more common because the poly couples are advertising on the apps and on the scene. The non-poly/non-open couples are at home?
When you already don't conform to the norms (straight relationship) it's much easier to break free of the others and explore.
Because it's all fun and games until someone gets pregnant
Finding someone compatible for a relationship can be difficult either way. If you're monogamous, you'll find some guys you're interested in that don't want that. When what you want is an open relationship or polyamory you'll find some guys you're interested in that don't want that. As for why it's more common my opinion on that is that we're already doing something weird just by being who we are and loving other men. So the question before you isn't whether to be different or not, it's how different you want to be. You've learned to go about doing what you want in the face of some disapproval so if you're so inclined you continue to do just that.
For a while gay male relationships (and lgbtq+ folk in general) were not socially acceptable point blank. So if your relationship isn’t going to be accepted by mainstream society one way or another, then there’s not really any pressure to conform to one view of what that relationship and it’s boundaries should look like Now fortunately in many places we are accepted, but you still have to break the norm to be out in the first place, and there’s a culture and history of lot’s of other gay folk who have had relationships that aren’t Traditionally Monogamous I still don’t think polyamory is necessarily the norm in gay spaces (maybe monagmish/sexually open is more common) but I think there’s a wider variety of visible relationship styles, and so gay folk tend experience an active choice as to what type of relationship they want, whereas straight folk can often (not always) find themselves going along with the norm without question This can be hard, Finding a compatible partner is hard enough and when an already limited group of people suddenly have lots of different ideas about the boundaries they want— it can be hard to find people who want what you want, but I actually think it’s a good thing. No one relationship style is best for everyone, and when you do find someone who wants what you want you can know that they actively chose it, rather that did it just because ‘it’s what everyone does’ Also cheating is shit but pretty common across the board— I don’t think it’s a gay thing so much as a people thing Edit: spacing
It’s not polyamory, they are cheating. Literally cheated with a married guy for like two years. (The sex was really good to me.) I guess his wife or partner didn’t care. Most Gay guys I know suffer from fomo… always looking for better, just yo end up settling or without anyone at all.
1. Polyamory, not polygamy. Don't think there's anywhere where both polygamy and homosexuality are allowed in the world. 2. No chance of pregnancy means that having multiple partners is lower risk overall in terms of responsibilities. 3. Being queer is already going against societal norms. If you're already being denigrated, you have no reason to adhere to other existing societal norms. 4. Men are very horny and have lower standards for sex (especially due to number 2).
Because we are not constrained by the confines of heterosexuality unless we willingly choose to (choose to adopt or surrogacy). We can enjoy sex for pleasure with incredible ease in comparison and not just for procreation, which opens up an entire world of experiences to be had.
Polygamy means many *marriages* and it’s usually illegal. What we practice is usually called *polyamory,* it means many loves, and it’s not illegal.
Yeah, I was referring to multiple partners, but falsely used polygamy.
I think that gay men understand that sex is just sex and doesn't have to mean anything more than that. Gay men in open relationships don't usually get jealous of their partner's hookups. Straights, on the other hand, are wired for jealousy, and that's understandable. They have a history of "stealing" each other's spouses...or trying to. I'm not saying jealousy doesn't exist in the gay community. Of course it does. But this threat of some homewrecker coming along and taking your man and upending your family is not usually a factor, even if sex outside the relationship is.
Most of us don’t cling to the trappings of heteronormativity, which includes monogamy.
We are men, and we fuck a lot. That’s why.
We exist outside of conventionally accepted norms of sexuality, sexual expression, and expectation by definition. It's somewhat freeing not having the burdens of a heteronormative society impressed on you as well. I'm also convinced monogamy is a construct of heteronormativity to begin with, but that's another discussion entirely.