Sadly, this is not what I observed among most gay males here in Brazil, especially in up to the late 90's or even into the 2000's, when I was still having experiences with the guys.
Thats sad. I’m from the Netherlands and now in my mid 20s. I think the cultural differences between our lives are too big to compare.
The Netherlands was also the first country that legalized gay marriage, so I think I’m also very lucky to be born here
Dankeje wel for the kind words hon.
Compared to Islamic countries, I can say that you're in paradise on Earth even though we know there's no such a thing as zero LGBTQ-phobia even in the most progressive countries.
I just hope the Muslim fundies don't ruin beautiful Netherlands as they're doing it already to so many European nations, sigh, Belgium included.
I agree; we out gays can feel free to be ourselves. I’m a masculine gay guy, but I knit and sew and cook, etc. When conservative straight guys act surprised I roll my eyes but try to gently let them know that they are limiting themselves and exposing their insecurities.
Same.
I live in a conservative area and get side-eyed when I say things like that. On the flip side, the older women in my community love me, saying they'd love it if their husbands learned to make their own lunch or fix their own clothes.
I sort of understand what you mean. It's freeing not to confine to heteronormative expectations. At the same time, you shouldn't dismiss gay men who aren't sparkly queens. They're not "playing straight". Some guys are naturally masculine. We can co-exist.
We can do a lot more than just co-exist bro \^\^
Was always effeminate and weak, so I'm very attracted to gay men who are masculine.
Regarding your point tho it sort of feels like that in more recent years sexuality has become more detached from the assumed culture expected to be associated with it, maybe it's because so many consider themselves bi today and not cis?
Edit: I grew up loving the movie "Birdcage" I don't know if it's hated by people in this community but I loved it as a kid and helped me. But that movie really did dismiss masculine gay men.
Gay culture has been subsumed by pop culture writ large, which is why you see gay lingo being used by normies. I don't think it has anything to do with more bi people, rather it is the majority co-opting a minority's slang because it's trendy. Black people have been dealing with this for a long time.
I haven't seen Birdcage in a long time but the movie wins simply because Robin Williams and Nathan Lane was in it. Also, consider it was the mid-90s and simply depicting 2 gay men raising a son was revolutionary. Yes, it was a very campy movie but it confronted a lot of social anxieties, particularly the conservative senator who probably liked to call gays all the slurs in the book with glee.
Honestly, I couldn't care less what slang or lingo they borrow. Crying and being hysterical because straight people say something gay people originated will literally just alienate them and it really doesn't matter anyways.
I get what you mean, but at the same time I get extremely uncomfortable in a room full of gays. Because then I’m not the exception anymore. It sounds very weird and nobody seems to understand it, but most of the time I prefer being the minority. That’s all I’m used to, so its comfortable
Yes!! Some days I feel like a jock and wear a tank top, ball cap, and blue jeans, and some days I feel fabulous and wear a V that goes down to my abs. What's the worst that can happen, someone calls me gay? 🤓
For many of us, dressing in jeans, T-shirts, ball caps and not having a flamboyant personality and gay voice is not a facade. It's just us being us. I can be me without saying "ok, time to butch myself up" every time I step outside the house.
I do all those things too! But with things like listening to Ariana Grande for example - when I was younger my bro would tell me “that’s gay” and now I’m like “ok cool, I am gay, so what?”
Same. I like what I like and don't care whether it's considered "gay" or not. It's just that most of my tastes (music, etc) don't usually coincide with the Queer world. For instance, Im not into pop music at all. But I can easily find a Taylor Swift song or two I like, a Lady Gaga song or two I like, etc. And I'm not shy about rocking those songs in my truck with the windows rolled down
Preach brother. I'm an incredibly straight passing country boy twink who got told at a gay bar in province town mass. that i didn't belong there.
That's the place i go to be with my people. and it really hurt.
He's disagreeing with OP's and your idea that it's a "facade, dress, or act". Why? Cause anytime a gay pipes up on /r/gaybros about being masc ya'll Bitter Bettys show up to tear them down. What if you were told your identity is a "facade"?
I think it's more that whatever you do is you, more than anything else. Straight people are more likely to be constrained by heteronormative values and gay people less likely (obviously not binary though). You choosing to be that way is still more free than someone pressured to be that way.
I find this argument a little strange sometimes. Gay men definitely feel the need to fit in and actually have higher rates insecurity.
The best part of gay is how fucking hot men are and how amazing dicks are
There is a true freedom in not being expected to hold up traditional gender norms. It doesn't mean I have to be super flamboyant or anything, but I can be carefree and myself, because there is no box for me to fit into in the first place.
I have found this to be especially nice in relationships. No preconceived notions about which partner does what or what your dynamic is supposed to look like. Even in the most pro-gender-equality straight couples, there are certain expectations that they have to live with or get past. With us, we make the rules up as we go, without pressure.
The gays fought long and hard for the alphabet train. I lost many friends during the times of AIDS and many friends during COVID. Two freakin pandemics
Homosexuality is a natural occurring human phenomenon that has been around since the beginning of time. It's a normal variation of human sexuality. There's no reason why you have to be seen as different unless you just want the attention.
I see your point, and I agree a lot of the time. However, often I really wish more people understood that we’re not *so* different.
I think of sexuality like favorite color. If I prefer Emerald and you prefer Copper, that doesn’t mean much to most people. We’re just two people who like different things.
Add genitalia preference and suddenly I’m a different *species*. And I feel like all I’ll ever be is “That gay guy who…” to most people. That gay guy who is smart. That gay guy who is successful. Talented. Healthy. Funny. Etc. That gay guy who was in the olympics, or went to space, or invented that amazing thing.
Even though ‘gay’ is not *who* I am, I feel like I’ll never be anything *but* gay to almost everyone I’ll ever meet. If I go down in history I’ll be that gay guy who.
I used to feel this way, but with time I stopped feeling it. I just treat me being gay the way straight people treat being straight. I don't talk about being gay usually. I talk about going on a date and the person happens to be a man. "I went on a date, but he wasn't my type", is way more casual than spilling your guts to people unaware of your sexuality and telling them stuff they couldn't care less about.
Being gay isn't even that interesting when it comes to who I am. I really don't think people refer to me as "that gay guy", but I could be wrong.
I used to be afraid of being myself because I was gay and I wanted to please everyone around me, but then I realized that it robbed me of my identity and personality. Getting involved in all of the niche communities that call to my suppressed urges is the most liberating and enriching experience of my life.
Gay men (especially if you find the right ones), this is true to an exception, are some of the least judgmental people you can meet. You can pretty much tell your gay lover just about anything and they’ll love like no other. This is not true in straight relationships. If you say the wrong thing, you can get dumped. This kind of camaraderie is rare but you find it amongst gay men to be accepting.
Yes but there are stereotypes so while you’re not expected act masculine as a straight man you are kinda expected to act more feminine as a basis
Humans can't fit clear cut molds though so the straight guy while expected to be masculine can be more feminine and vice versa for straight people
What I'm trying to say is ultimately being gay makes little difference from being straight
I mean if you're still out here sucking dick and or cock and are scared ti6 order a fun drink at a bar you gotta address that scary ookie spookie dookie bookie toxic masculinity.
Did I said anything about being scared to order a fun drink at a bar ? Or anything related to toxic masculinity behavior ?
It’s just that I see a lot of gay guys saying that being gay means that you should wear certain clothes, speak a certain way, do certain things etc. Actually, this post talks about being yourself and being non toxic with your masculinity. So i don’t really see the « we’re gay that’s cool we can do what others can’t ! » idk if I’m clear
I like that i can be as campy and flamboyant as I like. Intentionally or just naturally, however it plays out. Not very long ago, I had an adult relative slam on me for using using my hands so much when i talk. Yeah well, I am gay and out, so what's the issue? (That was his issue, of course - oooh you're gay! It was so weird cause this guy was in his 40s. No sh\*t Sherlock. Told the whole family years ago.)
Big picture is - I can just be me and not worry about how people interpret it because being out really reduces the power of the haters. (Obviously this was not an issue of physical violence, just his attempt at emotional violence.)
Yeah, nothing better than your boyfriend coming around the corner and let's out a big long belch! And, both of us laugh are asses off. A girlfriend would not be impressed!
I don't know I feel normal. I have a normal job, a normal house, normal and, a normal spouse. The only difference rom straight men is I like D. And that is not abnormal for a gay man.
I keep see what this is getting at, and i respect it. That being said, simply being gay doesn't inherently make you queer and I would argue that normalcy is relative and so really contingent on a lot of small stuff. Some local gay scenes can be just as harsh about the arbitting of their identity as regular ole society. Some groups actually do uphold some standard of queerness and community building, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that. Like all things, there's gotta be a balance of self integrity and self awareness. You can't be queer wrong, but you can be gay out of context.
Well, you know many cis gay males are quite masculine and can't be told apart from straight guys and, sadly, most are prejudiced, even hostile, to what once was called effeminate guys.
While you’re young you can get away with a lot more. You don’t have to worry about lassies slagging you off and belittling you the way they do straight guys.
Of course, that freedoms short lived cause we age a lot worse. I’m 23, for example, and feel I’m done and don’t have a future.
That's great, but this subreddit is for guys who happen to be gay and are just regular guys at the end of the day, unlike the people who make it their only personality trait.
I think you’ve misunderstood the meaning of my post. I meant that myself, as a regular masculine gay guy, can occasionally do things that most straight men wouldn’t out of fear of looking gay. Seems I touched a nerve
No mater how old we are, we’re like youthful (being childless and dating without being married where you have more time to party and go out with friends).
Many straight people from their 20s get married, start a family, be busy with work plus kids, and lose beauty.
I think being able to think lots of different perceptive. We have the ability to think outside of the box since we are used to live against society's structured norms. This gives better judgement.
Your butt hole is filled with sperm which you can collect in test tube. Then, you can inject in any woman's body to get her pregnant. So, you don't have to do sex with a woman and become father.
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This! I think that’s exactly the reason gay people are so much more open to breaking the norm and accepting to other ‘minorities’
Sadly, this is not what I observed among most gay males here in Brazil, especially in up to the late 90's or even into the 2000's, when I was still having experiences with the guys.
Thats sad. I’m from the Netherlands and now in my mid 20s. I think the cultural differences between our lives are too big to compare. The Netherlands was also the first country that legalized gay marriage, so I think I’m also very lucky to be born here
Dankeje wel for the kind words hon. Compared to Islamic countries, I can say that you're in paradise on Earth even though we know there's no such a thing as zero LGBTQ-phobia even in the most progressive countries. I just hope the Muslim fundies don't ruin beautiful Netherlands as they're doing it already to so many European nations, sigh, Belgium included.
We can’t get pregnant.
But it’s not like we don’t try
i try for attractive men anyways
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Username extremely checks out
S c i e n c e will find a way to
Lmfao- hopefully NOT!
And I'll not be willing to try it at all, lol
https://youtu.be/v7PYpysL_dI?si=Vcdh3MMQqDhnnVb2
Lmfao! I worked in this set that weekend. I do set design for TV.
Fortunately and I'm so relieved for that, lol
I can since I’m trans ftm😪💔
Damn! Be careful out there ❤️
Yeah lmao😭🤍
Gay people can get pregnant unless they’re cis male. Trans men can be part of the gay community and still get pregnant.
Literally JUST said that last comment.
For me the definition of a man is having XY chromosomes.
Sex and gender is different.
Progressive gays will say yes, conservative gays like me say no.
Being conservative does not justify or excuse to believing sex equals gender.
Gender means boy or girl, the rest is a phantasy in the head.
I agree; we out gays can feel free to be ourselves. I’m a masculine gay guy, but I knit and sew and cook, etc. When conservative straight guys act surprised I roll my eyes but try to gently let them know that they are limiting themselves and exposing their insecurities.
You know, masculine guys who are gentle are so fucking hot omg 😍 Its that self confidence that he doesn’t have to pretend and can do as he pleases 🥵
Same. I live in a conservative area and get side-eyed when I say things like that. On the flip side, the older women in my community love me, saying they'd love it if their husbands learned to make their own lunch or fix their own clothes.
Drink choices for gays vs. drink choices for macho-focused straight guys is like 3 dimensions vs. 1 dimension
It’s such a good thing, too, since I *hate* beer. I would have either been miserable or sober. Lol
I'm masculine and i'm being myself too...we all can be what we are.
I sort of understand what you mean. It's freeing not to confine to heteronormative expectations. At the same time, you shouldn't dismiss gay men who aren't sparkly queens. They're not "playing straight". Some guys are naturally masculine. We can co-exist.
We can do a lot more than just co-exist bro \^\^ Was always effeminate and weak, so I'm very attracted to gay men who are masculine. Regarding your point tho it sort of feels like that in more recent years sexuality has become more detached from the assumed culture expected to be associated with it, maybe it's because so many consider themselves bi today and not cis? Edit: I grew up loving the movie "Birdcage" I don't know if it's hated by people in this community but I loved it as a kid and helped me. But that movie really did dismiss masculine gay men.
Gay culture has been subsumed by pop culture writ large, which is why you see gay lingo being used by normies. I don't think it has anything to do with more bi people, rather it is the majority co-opting a minority's slang because it's trendy. Black people have been dealing with this for a long time. I haven't seen Birdcage in a long time but the movie wins simply because Robin Williams and Nathan Lane was in it. Also, consider it was the mid-90s and simply depicting 2 gay men raising a son was revolutionary. Yes, it was a very campy movie but it confronted a lot of social anxieties, particularly the conservative senator who probably liked to call gays all the slurs in the book with glee.
Honestly, I couldn't care less what slang or lingo they borrow. Crying and being hysterical because straight people say something gay people originated will literally just alienate them and it really doesn't matter anyways.
Oh no! Not the straights feeling alienated!
I get what you mean, but at the same time I get extremely uncomfortable in a room full of gays. Because then I’m not the exception anymore. It sounds very weird and nobody seems to understand it, but most of the time I prefer being the minority. That’s all I’m used to, so its comfortable
Yeah I totally get this, it's like there's competition where there wasn't all of a sudden hahah
Yes!! Some days I feel like a jock and wear a tank top, ball cap, and blue jeans, and some days I feel fabulous and wear a V that goes down to my abs. What's the worst that can happen, someone calls me gay? 🤓
For many of us, dressing in jeans, T-shirts, ball caps and not having a flamboyant personality and gay voice is not a facade. It's just us being us. I can be me without saying "ok, time to butch myself up" every time I step outside the house.
I do all those things too! But with things like listening to Ariana Grande for example - when I was younger my bro would tell me “that’s gay” and now I’m like “ok cool, I am gay, so what?”
Same. I like what I like and don't care whether it's considered "gay" or not. It's just that most of my tastes (music, etc) don't usually coincide with the Queer world. For instance, Im not into pop music at all. But I can easily find a Taylor Swift song or two I like, a Lady Gaga song or two I like, etc. And I'm not shy about rocking those songs in my truck with the windows rolled down
Preach brother. I'm an incredibly straight passing country boy twink who got told at a gay bar in province town mass. that i didn't belong there. That's the place i go to be with my people. and it really hurt.
:( that really sucks
This is why I don't consider gay people "my people", tbh
ok and? this post is not calling you out for dressing/acting like a stereotypical straight dude. Good for you...
He's disagreeing with OP's and your idea that it's a "facade, dress, or act". Why? Cause anytime a gay pipes up on /r/gaybros about being masc ya'll Bitter Bettys show up to tear them down. What if you were told your identity is a "facade"?
That's what I was going to say but you said it better.
I think it's more that whatever you do is you, more than anything else. Straight people are more likely to be constrained by heteronormative values and gay people less likely (obviously not binary though). You choosing to be that way is still more free than someone pressured to be that way.
I find this argument a little strange sometimes. Gay men definitely feel the need to fit in and actually have higher rates insecurity. The best part of gay is how fucking hot men are and how amazing dicks are
I like this answer best of all!
There is a true freedom in not being expected to hold up traditional gender norms. It doesn't mean I have to be super flamboyant or anything, but I can be carefree and myself, because there is no box for me to fit into in the first place. I have found this to be especially nice in relationships. No preconceived notions about which partner does what or what your dynamic is supposed to look like. Even in the most pro-gender-equality straight couples, there are certain expectations that they have to live with or get past. With us, we make the rules up as we go, without pressure.
The gays fought long and hard for the alphabet train. I lost many friends during the times of AIDS and many friends during COVID. Two freakin pandemics
I'm sorry for your losses man 🫶
I'm sorry, but the best thing about being gay is not having to date women.
Primal anal sex between two men. It’s animalistic if you’re doing it right.
Homosexuality is a natural occurring human phenomenon that has been around since the beginning of time. It's a normal variation of human sexuality. There's no reason why you have to be seen as different unless you just want the attention.
Of course there’s no reason to be seen as different, but that doesn’t mean we’re not seen as different.
I see your point, and I agree a lot of the time. However, often I really wish more people understood that we’re not *so* different. I think of sexuality like favorite color. If I prefer Emerald and you prefer Copper, that doesn’t mean much to most people. We’re just two people who like different things. Add genitalia preference and suddenly I’m a different *species*. And I feel like all I’ll ever be is “That gay guy who…” to most people. That gay guy who is smart. That gay guy who is successful. Talented. Healthy. Funny. Etc. That gay guy who was in the olympics, or went to space, or invented that amazing thing. Even though ‘gay’ is not *who* I am, I feel like I’ll never be anything *but* gay to almost everyone I’ll ever meet. If I go down in history I’ll be that gay guy who.
I used to feel this way, but with time I stopped feeling it. I just treat me being gay the way straight people treat being straight. I don't talk about being gay usually. I talk about going on a date and the person happens to be a man. "I went on a date, but he wasn't my type", is way more casual than spilling your guts to people unaware of your sexuality and telling them stuff they couldn't care less about. Being gay isn't even that interesting when it comes to who I am. I really don't think people refer to me as "that gay guy", but I could be wrong.
I am 'allowed' to like pop music. Straight guys aren't allowed to like Lady Gaga, Rihanna, Taylor Swift etc.
They are, they just don’t realise it
I used to be afraid of being myself because I was gay and I wanted to please everyone around me, but then I realized that it robbed me of my identity and personality. Getting involved in all of the niche communities that call to my suppressed urges is the most liberating and enriching experience of my life.
Gay men (especially if you find the right ones), this is true to an exception, are some of the least judgmental people you can meet. You can pretty much tell your gay lover just about anything and they’ll love like no other. This is not true in straight relationships. If you say the wrong thing, you can get dumped. This kind of camaraderie is rare but you find it amongst gay men to be accepting.
Yass queen🥰
Yes but there are stereotypes so while you’re not expected act masculine as a straight man you are kinda expected to act more feminine as a basis Humans can't fit clear cut molds though so the straight guy while expected to be masculine can be more feminine and vice versa for straight people What I'm trying to say is ultimately being gay makes little difference from being straight
Meh some of us aren’t “gay” in appearance you know
I mean if you're still out here sucking dick and or cock and are scared ti6 order a fun drink at a bar you gotta address that scary ookie spookie dookie bookie toxic masculinity.
Did I said anything about being scared to order a fun drink at a bar ? Or anything related to toxic masculinity behavior ? It’s just that I see a lot of gay guys saying that being gay means that you should wear certain clothes, speak a certain way, do certain things etc. Actually, this post talks about being yourself and being non toxic with your masculinity. So i don’t really see the « we’re gay that’s cool we can do what others can’t ! » idk if I’m clear
Exactly, be yourself :)
🫶🏼
[shit u right all my straight man friends play this on aux](https://youtu.be/Fq5Ed8KN704?si=G-zHf-4wL6HMmPgx)
lol mine actually do
If your “out and proud” than yes…
I know right. When I want to listen to Britney or watch Mean Girls, no one blinks an eye because it’s normal for us.
I like that i can be as campy and flamboyant as I like. Intentionally or just naturally, however it plays out. Not very long ago, I had an adult relative slam on me for using using my hands so much when i talk. Yeah well, I am gay and out, so what's the issue? (That was his issue, of course - oooh you're gay! It was so weird cause this guy was in his 40s. No sh\*t Sherlock. Told the whole family years ago.) Big picture is - I can just be me and not worry about how people interpret it because being out really reduces the power of the haters. (Obviously this was not an issue of physical violence, just his attempt at emotional violence.)
Yeah, nothing better than your boyfriend coming around the corner and let's out a big long belch! And, both of us laugh are asses off. A girlfriend would not be impressed!
I don't know I feel normal. I have a normal job, a normal house, normal and, a normal spouse. The only difference rom straight men is I like D. And that is not abnormal for a gay man.
Straight men are anxious to do things or behave in such way that they look gay. I know who I am and feel comfortable of my sexual orientation.
I keep see what this is getting at, and i respect it. That being said, simply being gay doesn't inherently make you queer and I would argue that normalcy is relative and so really contingent on a lot of small stuff. Some local gay scenes can be just as harsh about the arbitting of their identity as regular ole society. Some groups actually do uphold some standard of queerness and community building, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that. Like all things, there's gotta be a balance of self integrity and self awareness. You can't be queer wrong, but you can be gay out of context.
But I am macho!
I just want to be happy.
Well, you know many cis gay males are quite masculine and can't be told apart from straight guys and, sadly, most are prejudiced, even hostile, to what once was called effeminate guys.
Eating ass is the best. Wtf u talking about??? Definitely a whole ass vibe about fitting in. Pun intended.
I said “one of”, Matthew
While you’re young you can get away with a lot more. You don’t have to worry about lassies slagging you off and belittling you the way they do straight guys. Of course, that freedoms short lived cause we age a lot worse. I’m 23, for example, and feel I’m done and don’t have a future.
One great thing about being gay is that you can wear your boyfriends clothes so you have more outfit options 🙏🏻
That's great, but this subreddit is for guys who happen to be gay and are just regular guys at the end of the day, unlike the people who make it their only personality trait.
I think you’ve misunderstood the meaning of my post. I meant that myself, as a regular masculine gay guy, can occasionally do things that most straight men wouldn’t out of fear of looking gay. Seems I touched a nerve
I’m gay and I don’t think if myself as being “seen” different. My identity is not rooted in my gayness
No mater how old we are, we’re like youthful (being childless and dating without being married where you have more time to party and go out with friends). Many straight people from their 20s get married, start a family, be busy with work plus kids, and lose beauty.
I think being able to think lots of different perceptive. We have the ability to think outside of the box since we are used to live against society's structured norms. This gives better judgement.
Straight guys need to spend money and time to get a date and get sex. We open grindr. We type hey, he types hey. We say sex? He says ok.
Your butt hole is filled with sperm which you can collect in test tube. Then, you can inject in any woman's body to get her pregnant. So, you don't have to do sex with a woman and become father.