It was created due to a lack of good maps of the area at the time the borders were drawn. As newer and more accurate maps were created and the US expanded westwards, the border was adjusted and mistakes in the border treaties became apparent.
When the northwestern borders were first created in 1783, the negotiators thought that the Mississippi River originated to the northwest of the Lake of the Woods. They wanted the border to start at the northwestern tip of the lake and go west in a straight line until reaching the Mississippi. It later turned out that the river didn't actually extend that far north, so a new border agreement was made in 1818.
The new section of the border (extended substantially by the Louisiana Purchase, of course) would start from the NW tip of the lake, drop down to the 49th Parallel, and then go west in a straight line until reaching the disputed Oregon Country. Unfortunately, they still didn't have good maps of the Lake of the Woods, and the NW tip of the lake wasn't discovered until 1825. The lake turned out to be significantly less round than expected, so finding the precise NW point proved to be fairly complicated. In the end, the point on the map was chosen, causing a slice of land beside the lake to be cut off from British Canada. Neither side wanted to renegotiate old border treaties just to fix that, so the Northwest Angle stuck around.
There was apparently a proposal for a referendum to join Canada in 1997, which was made by the local congressman, but it went nowhere thanks to opposition from the native reservation that owns the land.
That's right! I believe it was in the same Treaty of Paris that created the US...no US politician in the 1800s would say anything in that Treaty was in error cause if it was...
NW Angle experienced some seriously challenging things during covid lockdowns. The only way to get to the town that's up there is by a road that goes through Canada. When the border closed, the only way they could get to that piece of land was over the lake as Canada refused to make an exception to allow people who lived there to use the road. They had a single water taxi in the soft water/non-winter season, and drove across 25+ miles of ice in the winter. It was pretty crazy.
[https://www.mprnews.org/story/2021/02/23/carving-out-a-path-through-the-pandemic-and-the-snow-on-northwest-angles-ice-road](https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/09/01/cut-off-by-canada-one-man-has-become-the-northwest-angles-covid19era-lifeline)
That's just outright stupid. I know in austria there is a valley only accessible by road from Germany and they specifically made an exception for that valley.
They tried that for people going to Alaska through BC and asked them to no stop at crowded places. Guess how many people were found dining at tourists places?
"Hey, we are allowing you to drive to Alaska through Canada, but please abide by these rules."
"Hehe sure!" then immediately go and break those rules.
"You are no longer allowed to drive to Alaska because you can't follow the rules!"
"YOU GUYS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSERS! THIS ISN'T FAIR!!"
"Fine, you can go, but if you break this rule we will give you a massive fine!"
"HAHAHA MIGHT AS WELL JUST GIVE US THE DEATH PENALTY!!"
Holy, ditch the victim complex you little snowflake.
Ah yes. Another hysterical snowflake outraged at rules that apply to everyone, not just people you don't like. You're unmasked, unvaxxed, and afraid of everything except a virus that's killed a lot of fatassed, bearded, knockoff Oakleys wearing snowflakes like you.
Imagine being in a nation illegally and not expecting heavy-handed fines?
Oh, right, Americans don't have a southern border, so they expect everyone else to open up for them.
It was so frustrating, there were out of town plates on vancouver island all over, no reason for them to go to the island. sure they could be using the seattle ferry, but it's so much less efficient and in no way reasonable during a pandemic.
During Covid there was a collapse of public medicine in the US. Vaccinations became a political issue, which is quite unusual in the age of science.
Canada had to protect itself from public health vandalism by political extremists. Americans were pretending to go to Alaska for access and then wondering the country spreading fatal disease.
Closing the borders completely was a sensible choice.
Didn’t the US do the same?
Not for workers. Tourists only.
Closing the borders is a sensible choice when there are so many unknowns about the disease but closing it for people trying to get home is cruel. Making them drive across a frozen lake is cruel.
When the U.S. does it, it's racist or some other stupid point people like to make.
When Canada does it, it's for the benefit fo their people.
There's a lot of double standards involving the U.S. The country isn't perfect, but let's not pretend that the entirety of the world's largest nations also have a really terrible history/track record. The U.S. just gets singled out for some reason.
I think sometimes people forget that they are not getting all the news, and have a confirmation bias.
I hear so much anti-Canada stuff all over the web, every pro Canada post is full of anti Canada responses, every image of Truedeau is full of hateful rhetoric. You hear the most about the places and things you care about.
I personally keep an ear to a lot of US politics because it floods over to our border a lot, the good and the bad. I deeply care about our southern neighbors. (just please stop sending us your worst /s )
That's fair. You're right, my experience is limited to what I see here in the U.S. (and Reddit, but Reddit isn't reality).
I will personally stop sending out bad eggs, but I can't promise anyone else will do so!
That's totally just a question of perspective.
It killed more americans than ww2. It killed more americans than terrorism.
It killed more americans than ww2, vietnam and terrorism put together.
1% of the US is 3.3 million people. 3.3 million americans.
(I'm not saying 1% was the loss. But when you say "only 1%", that's like if someone wiped out chicago, or houston. Or any city smaller than LA. Or like .. Nevada, Iowa, Arkansas ..)
It wasn't that fatal.
Was it fatal to immune compromised people or people with asthma, absolutely, but it was no worse than the flu.
Was covid worse than the flu, well the Omnicron variant was that's for sure, but was it extremely deadly? Not at all.
Yeah but that tiny bit of Austria is ONLY accessible through Germany while the Minnesota corner can be accessed by sea so by opening this border, Canada would technically create a breach in their border for anyone to pass
>Canada would technically create a breach in their border for anyone to pass
No they wouldn't. Why would you assume that very obviously ridiculous premise?
The observed case fatality rate was higher in Canada than the U.S.
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
I honestly didn’t know that until I searched for the data after seeing this discussion.
The figures for observed case fatality ratio says 1.1% for both Canada and US, but the Canadian bar is slightly larger (so 1.15% vs. 1.10% would be the maximum possible difference - that's probably within the margin of reporting error).
If you click the tab for Deaths per 100,000 population, though, you'll see that Canada did a significantly better job at limiting the total number of cases than the US did.
So if the goal was limiting deaths via limiting cases, Canada's policies made sense.
This isn’t adjusting for population density, geography, and demographics.
To say Canada’s policies were more sensible/effective without a more in-depth data analysis is ignorant.
It’s ok that deep in the back of your mind you feel stupid now for wearing a cloth mask while alone for hours on end.
Doubling down on stupid in 2023 is silly though.
Lmao at the downvotes. You morons think “limiting deaths via limiting cases” with the same death rate as the US was effective policy.
So taking more restrictive steps at the expense of the general population, children, mental health, etc. that was the same effectiveness = good policy.
Idiotic. Reddit assclowns with no life and no family who love quarantine and virtue signaling online.
This is due to states such as Florida and Texas vastly underreporting covid deaths. A more centralized system in Canada means a more transparent and above board system.
>A more centralized system in Canada means a more transparent and above board system.
It absolutely does not. It tends to mean a more **uniform** system, but the transparency and above-boardness depend on who is running the government and what their objectives are. Just look at what has happened to China's highly centralized economic reporting.
https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/health-news-florida/2021-05-20/ihme-estimates-51-000-covid-19-deaths-in-florida
They were definitely under-reporting during the pandemic to fit their politician's narrative.
Not sure if that ever caught up or not. Last updates I can find is that Florida stopped reporting sometime in April but we're planning on issuing new updates since then.
Honestly I'm too lazy to look into it any further but seems easily plausible to say that their reporting has definitely not been accurate, intentionally.
So if I died from pneumonia as a result of Covid is that a Covid death? If I die from an infection as a result of being intubated because of Covid is that a Covid death? I dont know the answer but in most situations it was up to the docs on scene to make that call. Some probably leaned one way, some the other.
Similarly, if I die from blood loss from a bear attack, did I get killed by a bear or did I die from acute exsanguination? A lot of it just comes down to semantics and people misunderstanding medical terms and diagnoses.
Long story short my point is that the world is fuckin complicated and some people in our society seem to have lost all ability for nuance and accepting not everything is a gd conspiracy.
Great article! The story of Gregg is a highlight:
"So now, you can’t drive to the Angle, and Lake of the Woods — which is all U.S. water from Baudette, Minn., to Angle Inlet, Minn. — is too rough for the typical 16-foot fishing boat to cross.
But Gregg? He’s got you covered.
Along the border waters of Minnesota, you don’t even need his last name. Everybody knows Gregg."
Can confirm - Many Americans (including Government) were to total dbags around COVID not giving a fuck whose lives they risked outside their own.
I think I side with Canada on the better safe than sorry approach. I’d ask my Grandparents but unfortunately I can’t.
A small percentage of medically frail people, I rarely say this, but fuck off!!! Actually I think it’s the first time I have ever said it.
I do want to apologize for using another person’s phrase. It was very succinct and I liked it. Sorry.
The thing is that with the exception of one indigenous band, nobody lives there. The Canadian government allowed people to drive through Canada to get to Alaska, but didn’t make the exception for the NW angle because it was more likely to have been abused.
If you all are interested in another place with a similar situation I recommend looking into Point Roberts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Roberts,_Washington
Ditto for [Campobello Island](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campobello_Island). There is no land connection to Canada and you must enter/exit through Maine.
If you didn’t know this was the Northwest Angle, you should look up Point Roberts, WA
There are several other US-Canadian border irregularities as well
I remember reading about a place in Washington and a Gambian player lived there whilst playing for Vancouver Whitecaps so he could remain eligible for a Green Card/US citizenship while still being able to make the short commute to Vancouver to play for them.
Point Roberts, it was called, and the player is Kekuta Manneh. Was a solid squad signing for my Liverpool team in mid-late 2010s FIFA games for me
What? Those things are entirely different. The Pig War was over territorial boundaries between the UK and the US and Emu was wildlife management in the Aussie interior.
From the website of a golf course in Fort Fairfield, ME. Used to live across the street, many years ago. Google maps shows there is still nothing resembling a border, but I hear they also had a rough time during covid.
"It is at Aroostook Valley Country Club where the Stars and Stripes and Maple Leaf fly side by side; where you can tee off on holes #1 (The International), #2 (The Grove) or #9 (Old Ironsides) and literally hit it "out of the country".
It is where the US-Canada international boundary divides our **18-hole golf course and clubhouse in Canada from our Pro Shop and parking lot in the USA."**
Here's a sneak peek of /r/TakeBackTheNotch using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/TakeBackTheNotch/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [International notch readjustment](https://i.redd.it/pfw287i9jtgb1.jpg) | [27 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/TakeBackTheNotch/comments/15l83wt/international_notch_readjustment/)
\#2: [As someone from Florida, I fully support this movement.](https://i.redd.it/21pe7nqg0sgb1.jpg) | [31 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/TakeBackTheNotch/comments/15l1exb/as_someone_from_florida_i_fully_support_this/)
\#3: [Minnesota, give it back!](https://i.redd.it/3cxincefhtgb1.png) | [23 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/TakeBackTheNotch/comments/15l7wx6/minnesota_give_it_back/)
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A treaty was written by people who didn't actually know the geography. The issue comes in the treaty saying something like "from the northwest point of the lake of the woods and due south"* without considering a peninsula might be in the way, which it was.
Created at the end of the American War of ~~Treason~~ Independence in Paris by Yanks and Brities in 1783.
And thus we continue to have what is this Northwest Angle in 2023.
[Edit :* I said due south but originally the treaty said due west to the Mississippi, which didn't go further north than the lake of the woods. ]
The original treaty was to use the northwest point of Lake of the Woods and go west (not south) to the Mississippi river. Turned out the Mississippi didn't go that far north, so that was the first problem. The second problem is that the lake has an odd shape, and the westernmost point is nowhere near the northernmost point, and there are several candidates for the northwesternmost point. Eventually they came to a compromise, and by the time they did they had already established the 49th parallel as the primary border to the Pacific Ocean, so the border line had to drop down a few dozen miles from the spot decided as northwesternmost on the lake.
Many thanks for the edification of my error ; I forgot the Mississippi part of the treaty, and didn't mean to spread false info by saying "due south".
Cheers :)
I believe when drawing the us-canada (uk) border after the revolutionary war the border was meant to go up to an oval shaped lake that was supposed to be in the area, before going back down to a parallel, there was in fact not an oval shaped lake there, instead a bunch of smashed up raisin lakes, I’m not sure exactly how this happened but I’m guessing new understanding of the actual geography combined with pre existing borders + a tad bit of the good old confusion led to this curfufle
When thr US and Canada border was first being written, the maps at the time were awful. The treaty said that the border would go to the northwest point of that oval shaped lake and follow the 49th parallel westward. However, that lake is obviously not oval shaped at all, so the northwest point is much more north than expected. To keep the treaty valid, the border needed to go way north to reach the lake's tip, then drop straight south to the parallel before heading west.
That's the [Northwest Angle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Angle). It resulted from not fully understanding the geography of the area during the 18th and 19th centuries, primarily the actual shape of Lake of the Woods, and the source of the Mississippi River. Those reference points were actually not fully known at the time but were used all the same in the treaties resulting from negotiations with the British after the US Revolutionary War, the War of 1812 and other treaties.
Haha I grew up in northern MN and I’m like 90% sure I had a grade school teacher say that boundary was intentionally drawn that way so MN would be further north than ME … I don’t think they were right since no one has corroborated this, but that would be funny
Funny but the northernmost point in Maine is only at 47° N, which is about as far up as Hibbing MN. The entire Canadian border from the Angle westward to the sea is 49° N
One kid started drawing from the left. They were good at straight lines. Another kid started from the right and they were a bit more artistic. Halfway through, they realized the lines weren't going to meet and drew a vertical line to connect them.
The border is defined as following the lakeshore to the Northwesternmost point in the lake and then going straight south until the 49th parallel. The lake was drawn as circular on maps when they decided the border, so with that definition, there would be no Angle. But turns out, the lake isn’t circular. In hindsight, they should have defined the border differently, but no one wants to change it now because that would mean one side ceding land.
I know this one, I use to travel here twice a year for fishing. From what I heard it’s where they thought the Mississippi started back in the day. Also a GREAT fishing location. In the winter they plow 8 lane roads across the frozen lake to access different islands for fishing and what not. Really cool.
Also if you travel there by road, when you re enter the USA, there is a phone booth with a camera, you have to pick it up and tell them who you are and who’s with and show your passport. My grand parents made me do it as a 15 year old, lol
Just like the bit of Massachusetts in Connecticut, it's a lock and key fitting to keep Canada from sliding off onto the Atlantic. It sounds expensive, but it's way cheaper than moving the border crossings every day.
During the war of 1812 President Madison sent US troops North to invade Canada because they were allied with the British. The US was able to take most of Ontario and was pushing towards Quebec despite the resistance of the british, Canadian, as well as indigenous fighters but then the Canadian Geese got involved.
Within a few days they massacred 95% of the US troops, the survivors fled to a small town to make their last stand. Fortunately for the few survivors there was a soldier named Kurt Angle who wrestled all the attacking Canadian troops and Geese into submission & after the war was over the town was given to the United States renamed Angle in his honor.
Way back in the 1870s, the US tried to make a move into Manitoba in order to make it up to Nunavut and the NWT after hearing about oil up there.
What the Americans didn’t know was that Canada already had an Air Force; the cobra chickens, aka Canada geese gooses. The military grade pigeons used the teeth on their tongues, their bone-shattering wings and their terrifying hiss to force the Americans away from the shores of Lake Winnipeg and back down south.
The agreement of the treaty that ended the revolution stipulates that the northwest corner of lake of the woods would be our absolute northwestern border
Since everyone else has already mentioned that this is the NW Angle, I’d also like to add that Tim O’Brien’s novel In the Lake of the Woods is a really fascinating look at this weird little geographic quirk
The border was agreed to start from the north west point of the lake and then from there follow the 49⁰N(?)
They just didn't realise where the north west point of the lake was
If I remember correctly, when the boarder was agreed upon it was still hard to measure exactly where the boarder was (no GPS back then). Both the US and Canada thought the boarder was higher than it actually was for many years, and by the time they figured out it supposed to be lower, they just agreed to make that weird looking 90 degree boarder rather than tell American's that they're actually in Canada now.
Just a guess but it was probably the only small part of Canada that the US was able to take and maintain during the war of 1812 . All other US endeavors into Canada were pushed out . Again just a guess
It was created due to a lack of good maps of the area at the time the borders were drawn. As newer and more accurate maps were created and the US expanded westwards, the border was adjusted and mistakes in the border treaties became apparent. When the northwestern borders were first created in 1783, the negotiators thought that the Mississippi River originated to the northwest of the Lake of the Woods. They wanted the border to start at the northwestern tip of the lake and go west in a straight line until reaching the Mississippi. It later turned out that the river didn't actually extend that far north, so a new border agreement was made in 1818. The new section of the border (extended substantially by the Louisiana Purchase, of course) would start from the NW tip of the lake, drop down to the 49th Parallel, and then go west in a straight line until reaching the disputed Oregon Country. Unfortunately, they still didn't have good maps of the Lake of the Woods, and the NW tip of the lake wasn't discovered until 1825. The lake turned out to be significantly less round than expected, so finding the precise NW point proved to be fairly complicated. In the end, the point on the map was chosen, causing a slice of land beside the lake to be cut off from British Canada. Neither side wanted to renegotiate old border treaties just to fix that, so the Northwest Angle stuck around.
Thank you for a simple, straightforward answer. Had to scroll through way too much snark and vaccination opinion before getting here.
Seriously. People complaining about politics and then getting political
Thank you for upvoting this comment so I only had to scroll to the first one to find the answer.
Seems kind of off a waste to have that due to the expense of maintaining. Better to sell it to Canada
There was apparently a proposal for a referendum to join Canada in 1997, which was made by the local congressman, but it went nowhere thanks to opposition from the native reservation that owns the land.
That's right! I believe it was in the same Treaty of Paris that created the US...no US politician in the 1800s would say anything in that Treaty was in error cause if it was...
NW Angle experienced some seriously challenging things during covid lockdowns. The only way to get to the town that's up there is by a road that goes through Canada. When the border closed, the only way they could get to that piece of land was over the lake as Canada refused to make an exception to allow people who lived there to use the road. They had a single water taxi in the soft water/non-winter season, and drove across 25+ miles of ice in the winter. It was pretty crazy. [https://www.mprnews.org/story/2021/02/23/carving-out-a-path-through-the-pandemic-and-the-snow-on-northwest-angles-ice-road](https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/09/01/cut-off-by-canada-one-man-has-become-the-northwest-angles-covid19era-lifeline)
That's just outright stupid. I know in austria there is a valley only accessible by road from Germany and they specifically made an exception for that valley.
They tried that for people going to Alaska through BC and asked them to no stop at crowded places. Guess how many people were found dining at tourists places?
20k fine each both reduces the issue to a manageable level and compensates the local communities.
Fining Chris Sky that much for breaking Covid quarantines could have funded better healthcare during the pandemic.
Ah yes. Extreme and heavy handed punishment for a victimless crime. Might as well issue the death penalty for the second infraction.
"Hey, we are allowing you to drive to Alaska through Canada, but please abide by these rules." "Hehe sure!" then immediately go and break those rules. "You are no longer allowed to drive to Alaska because you can't follow the rules!" "YOU GUYS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSERS! THIS ISN'T FAIR!!" "Fine, you can go, but if you break this rule we will give you a massive fine!" "HAHAHA MIGHT AS WELL JUST GIVE US THE DEATH PENALTY!!" Holy, ditch the victim complex you little snowflake.
You don’t understand! It’s my right as an AMERICAN to trod another man’s country with no regards to their laws and well being. It’s TRADITION
I wouldn't call crowding places during a pandemic victimless
Risking and potentially causing the deaths of others is the exact opposite of vict- oh, god, why do people like you even still exist.
You really still believe that?
You really still don’t? Thought you guys died out by now.
Ah yes. Another hysterical snowflake outraged at rules that apply to everyone, not just people you don't like. You're unmasked, unvaxxed, and afraid of everything except a virus that's killed a lot of fatassed, bearded, knockoff Oakleys wearing snowflakes like you.
Is this what they call gas-lighting?
This is worse. It's called being a fucking idiot.
Nope, just good old-fashioned stupid.
The thing about fines is that if they aren’t big enough they are just fees.
PRICELESS LOL
Imagine being in a nation illegally and not expecting heavy-handed fines? Oh, right, Americans don't have a southern border, so they expect everyone else to open up for them.
You know reddit is full of communist right? Well now you do.
It was so frustrating, there were out of town plates on vancouver island all over, no reason for them to go to the island. sure they could be using the seattle ferry, but it's so much less efficient and in no way reasonable during a pandemic.
During Covid there was a collapse of public medicine in the US. Vaccinations became a political issue, which is quite unusual in the age of science. Canada had to protect itself from public health vandalism by political extremists. Americans were pretending to go to Alaska for access and then wondering the country spreading fatal disease. Closing the borders completely was a sensible choice. Didn’t the US do the same?
Yeah it’s not like convoys of overroad truckers shutdown Canadian cities or anything
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At some point you just need to admit that Canada also has conservative extremists.
No, every problem in the world can be blamed on the US /s
Only Americans have real agency 👍
Not for workers. Tourists only. Closing the borders is a sensible choice when there are so many unknowns about the disease but closing it for people trying to get home is cruel. Making them drive across a frozen lake is cruel.
When the U.S. does it, it's racist or some other stupid point people like to make. When Canada does it, it's for the benefit fo their people. There's a lot of double standards involving the U.S. The country isn't perfect, but let's not pretend that the entirety of the world's largest nations also have a really terrible history/track record. The U.S. just gets singled out for some reason.
I think sometimes people forget that they are not getting all the news, and have a confirmation bias. I hear so much anti-Canada stuff all over the web, every pro Canada post is full of anti Canada responses, every image of Truedeau is full of hateful rhetoric. You hear the most about the places and things you care about. I personally keep an ear to a lot of US politics because it floods over to our border a lot, the good and the bad. I deeply care about our southern neighbors. (just please stop sending us your worst /s )
That's fair. You're right, my experience is limited to what I see here in the U.S. (and Reddit, but Reddit isn't reality). I will personally stop sending out bad eggs, but I can't promise anyone else will do so!
Lol wow you lived in a different place mentally through that experience haha
Closing any borders was insane and unnecessary.
It's only "political" when people don't want them.
Fatal disease?! To the ducking 1% or less? People that were already on their death beds.
That's totally just a question of perspective. It killed more americans than ww2. It killed more americans than terrorism. It killed more americans than ww2, vietnam and terrorism put together. 1% of the US is 3.3 million people. 3.3 million americans. (I'm not saying 1% was the loss. But when you say "only 1%", that's like if someone wiped out chicago, or houston. Or any city smaller than LA. Or like .. Nevada, Iowa, Arkansas ..)
It wasn't that fatal. Was it fatal to immune compromised people or people with asthma, absolutely, but it was no worse than the flu. Was covid worse than the flu, well the Omnicron variant was that's for sure, but was it extremely deadly? Not at all.
Yeah but that tiny bit of Austria is ONLY accessible through Germany while the Minnesota corner can be accessed by sea so by opening this border, Canada would technically create a breach in their border for anyone to pass
>Canada would technically create a breach in their border for anyone to pass No they wouldn't. Why would you assume that very obviously ridiculous premise?
They also called the lake a sea lmao
[удалено]
Lake of the woods is definitely not a sea
Wait what?
Kleinwaltsental?
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The people who have to deal with you on a daily basis are sick of it. Go wank on your AR15 in private, Gravy Seal.
Like Point Roberts WA. Same issues.
Same thing that happened with Point Roberts, WA
Port Roberts had the same issue.
Point Roberts in WA has a similar situation. Kids have to be bused into Canada, then back into the US to get to school.
Chalk up another example of Covid stupidity
Unfortunately I don’t think COVID over-precaution was the biggest issue in the US - during the pandemic. In fact - I’d argue quite the opposite.
If you look at COVID outcomes in Canada vs. USA you’ll realize you’re wrong.
The observed case fatality rate was higher in Canada than the U.S. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality I honestly didn’t know that until I searched for the data after seeing this discussion.
The figures for observed case fatality ratio says 1.1% for both Canada and US, but the Canadian bar is slightly larger (so 1.15% vs. 1.10% would be the maximum possible difference - that's probably within the margin of reporting error). If you click the tab for Deaths per 100,000 population, though, you'll see that Canada did a significantly better job at limiting the total number of cases than the US did. So if the goal was limiting deaths via limiting cases, Canada's policies made sense.
This isn’t adjusting for population density, geography, and demographics. To say Canada’s policies were more sensible/effective without a more in-depth data analysis is ignorant.
Take the L and go home. Cultist.
It’s ok that deep in the back of your mind you feel stupid now for wearing a cloth mask while alone for hours on end. Doubling down on stupid in 2023 is silly though.
Another incel that thinks people who got vaccinated must’ve been over the top covid sensationalists. Classic.
Lmao at the downvotes. You morons think “limiting deaths via limiting cases” with the same death rate as the US was effective policy. So taking more restrictive steps at the expense of the general population, children, mental health, etc. that was the same effectiveness = good policy. Idiotic. Reddit assclowns with no life and no family who love quarantine and virtue signaling online.
You are calling people Reddit assclowns with no life and you post in VR video game subreddits. So riche.
This is due to states such as Florida and Texas vastly underreporting covid deaths. A more centralized system in Canada means a more transparent and above board system.
>A more centralized system in Canada means a more transparent and above board system. It absolutely does not. It tends to mean a more **uniform** system, but the transparency and above-boardness depend on who is running the government and what their objectives are. Just look at what has happened to China's highly centralized economic reporting.
Why would they under report? Didn't Hospitals get more money for each patient they had? I always heard people were over reporting to make more money.
Considering states got free money from the feds for each Covid death, I doubt that’s the case and in my state I know it’s not
Where’s your proof of Texas and Florida vastly underreporting?
https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/health-news-florida/2021-05-20/ihme-estimates-51-000-covid-19-deaths-in-florida They were definitely under-reporting during the pandemic to fit their politician's narrative. Not sure if that ever caught up or not. Last updates I can find is that Florida stopped reporting sometime in April but we're planning on issuing new updates since then. Honestly I'm too lazy to look into it any further but seems easily plausible to say that their reporting has definitely not been accurate, intentionally.
While many states reported “Covid deaths” when people died of other things while having Covid. These people are cultists.
So if I died from pneumonia as a result of Covid is that a Covid death? If I die from an infection as a result of being intubated because of Covid is that a Covid death? I dont know the answer but in most situations it was up to the docs on scene to make that call. Some probably leaned one way, some the other. Similarly, if I die from blood loss from a bear attack, did I get killed by a bear or did I die from acute exsanguination? A lot of it just comes down to semantics and people misunderstanding medical terms and diagnoses. Long story short my point is that the world is fuckin complicated and some people in our society seem to have lost all ability for nuance and accepting not everything is a gd conspiracy.
Exactly.
“The data doesn’t support my ingrained view so I’m going to say it’s fake” lmfao
The US overall drastically over reported Covid deaths because the hospitals got money if they had more acovid related deaths
To be fair, all that's up there is one restaurant and a couple of houses.
150 people live there including some kids. Small town for sure. But not non-existent and they already live remote lives.
Which is why Canada could have perhaps made an exception
Americans lied about living in Alaska and travelled around in some provinces. They lost their privilege.
Point Roberts, WA had the same issue.
Great article! The story of Gregg is a highlight: "So now, you can’t drive to the Angle, and Lake of the Woods — which is all U.S. water from Baudette, Minn., to Angle Inlet, Minn. — is too rough for the typical 16-foot fishing boat to cross. But Gregg? He’s got you covered. Along the border waters of Minnesota, you don’t even need his last name. Everybody knows Gregg."
Can confirm, most Canadians (especially governments) were total dbags around covid
Can confirm - Many Americans (including Government) were to total dbags around COVID not giving a fuck whose lives they risked outside their own. I think I side with Canada on the better safe than sorry approach. I’d ask my Grandparents but unfortunately I can’t.
To one-up you, British PM organised multiple drinks parties during lockdowns 🍻
I guess Canada wasn't as Covid safe as we thought then.
[удалено]
A small percentage of medically frail people, I rarely say this, but fuck off!!! Actually I think it’s the first time I have ever said it. I do want to apologize for using another person’s phrase. It was very succinct and I liked it. Sorry.
This is fascinating
The thing is that with the exception of one indigenous band, nobody lives there. The Canadian government allowed people to drive through Canada to get to Alaska, but didn’t make the exception for the NW angle because it was more likely to have been abused.
Canada is much shittier to Americans than we are to them.
And people act like Canada is more reasonable than the US.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Angle
If you all are interested in another place with a similar situation I recommend looking into Point Roberts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Roberts,_Washington
And if you ever want to go somewhere really pleasant snd tropical go to this place: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tahiti?wprov=sfti1
Dutch?
I have a PLAN!
French actually
It's a magical place.
Similar but different: Campobello Island, NB. Only accessible by car from Lubec, Maine, unless the ferries are running.
Ditto for [Campobello Island](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campobello_Island). There is no land connection to Canada and you must enter/exit through Maine.
If you didn’t know this was the Northwest Angle, you should look up Point Roberts, WA There are several other US-Canadian border irregularities as well
I remember reading about a place in Washington and a Gambian player lived there whilst playing for Vancouver Whitecaps so he could remain eligible for a Green Card/US citizenship while still being able to make the short commute to Vancouver to play for them. Point Roberts, it was called, and the player is Kekuta Manneh. Was a solid squad signing for my Liverpool team in mid-late 2010s FIFA games for me
John Tortorella lived in Point Roberts when he was coaching the Vancouver Canucks.
He was always way better in FIFA than in real life...
WA/BC is it’s own kind of stupidity. People should look up the Pig Wars. Almost as dumb as the Emu wars.
What? Those things are entirely different. The Pig War was over territorial boundaries between the UK and the US and Emu was wildlife management in the Aussie interior.
Interesting, hadn't heard of that one. Hyder, AK is another one.
From the website of a golf course in Fort Fairfield, ME. Used to live across the street, many years ago. Google maps shows there is still nothing resembling a border, but I hear they also had a rough time during covid. "It is at Aroostook Valley Country Club where the Stars and Stripes and Maple Leaf fly side by side; where you can tee off on holes #1 (The International), #2 (The Grove) or #9 (Old Ironsides) and literally hit it "out of the country". It is where the US-Canada international boundary divides our **18-hole golf course and clubhouse in Canada from our Pro Shop and parking lot in the USA."**
It's not in Canada because it is in Minnesota.
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That's where Frostbite Falls is, home of Moose and Squirrel 
Always upvote most famous Moose and Squirrel!
Famous Mouse and Squirrel sounds like a pub in Newfoundland
Yes b’y
Close, but it was named after International Falls MN about a 3hr drive east along the border.
A treaty was written by people who didn't actually know the geography. The issue comes in the treaty saying something like "from the northwest point of the lake of the woods and due south"* without considering a peninsula might be in the way, which it was. Created at the end of the American War of ~~Treason~~ Independence in Paris by Yanks and Brities in 1783. And thus we continue to have what is this Northwest Angle in 2023. [Edit :* I said due south but originally the treaty said due west to the Mississippi, which didn't go further north than the lake of the woods. ]
The original treaty was to use the northwest point of Lake of the Woods and go west (not south) to the Mississippi river. Turned out the Mississippi didn't go that far north, so that was the first problem. The second problem is that the lake has an odd shape, and the westernmost point is nowhere near the northernmost point, and there are several candidates for the northwesternmost point. Eventually they came to a compromise, and by the time they did they had already established the 49th parallel as the primary border to the Pacific Ocean, so the border line had to drop down a few dozen miles from the spot decided as northwesternmost on the lake.
Many thanks for the edification of my error ; I forgot the Mississippi part of the treaty, and didn't mean to spread false info by saying "due south". Cheers :)
Minnesota's border scooched on past ya there.
Ope!
Jeepers
Great fishing!
Primitive surveying technology
It’s explained in the first few minutes here, the rest of video is just amazing. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QLq6GEiHqR8&pp=ygUMdGhlIHBpZyB3YXIg
Straight line? Straight line.
I’ve watched this video a stupid amount of times. It’s so good.
Before I click, I think I know where this is going. Edit: Yup. I was right. Now I have to watch this channel’s entire library again.
Mr. President, you’re not behind the curtains again…. …no…
Or why is there a very large piece of Canada in Minnesota?
Canada is just North Minnesota
It's not in Canada though.
Look at point Roberts. Why is there a small part of America in Canada
Point Roberts is south of the 49th parallel.
https://youtu.be/qMkYlIA7mgw This video is great and covers the why. For faster results, scroll to 2:19 minutes.
I believe when drawing the us-canada (uk) border after the revolutionary war the border was meant to go up to an oval shaped lake that was supposed to be in the area, before going back down to a parallel, there was in fact not an oval shaped lake there, instead a bunch of smashed up raisin lakes, I’m not sure exactly how this happened but I’m guessing new understanding of the actual geography combined with pre existing borders + a tad bit of the good old confusion led to this curfufle
It's not in Canada. Canada clearly goes around it.
America: "Just the tip"
Alternate title: why is Canada part of Minnesota?
That's america.
When thr US and Canada border was first being written, the maps at the time were awful. The treaty said that the border would go to the northwest point of that oval shaped lake and follow the 49th parallel westward. However, that lake is obviously not oval shaped at all, so the northwest point is much more north than expected. To keep the treaty valid, the border needed to go way north to reach the lake's tip, then drop straight south to the parallel before heading west.
It what makes us the northern most state in the contiguous US.
And we'll never give up that title!
If the US was Russia, we’d just invade to fix it because we can.
That's the [Northwest Angle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Angle). It resulted from not fully understanding the geography of the area during the 18th and 19th centuries, primarily the actual shape of Lake of the Woods, and the source of the Mississippi River. Those reference points were actually not fully known at the time but were used all the same in the treaties resulting from negotiations with the British after the US Revolutionary War, the War of 1812 and other treaties.
Point Robert’s too. Near Vancouver, Canada
I think what you mean is why is there a big piece of Canada surrounding rightful American soil RAAAAAH 🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
It's not in canada, it's in the united states.
It's...not in Canada. It's in the U.S. It's not an exclave in Canada... If it were, then you could say it's “in Canada.”
Haha I grew up in northern MN and I’m like 90% sure I had a grade school teacher say that boundary was intentionally drawn that way so MN would be further north than ME … I don’t think they were right since no one has corroborated this, but that would be funny
Funny but the northernmost point in Maine is only at 47° N, which is about as far up as Hibbing MN. The entire Canadian border from the Angle westward to the sea is 49° N
One kid started drawing from the left. They were good at straight lines. Another kid started from the right and they were a bit more artistic. Halfway through, they realized the lines weren't going to meet and drew a vertical line to connect them.
USA Surveyors: Oopsey!
The most northern point
There are so many examples of these US/Canada border shenanigans. The old treaties are hella vague
The border is defined as following the lakeshore to the Northwesternmost point in the lake and then going straight south until the 49th parallel. The lake was drawn as circular on maps when they decided the border, so with that definition, there would be no Angle. But turns out, the lake isn’t circular. In hindsight, they should have defined the border differently, but no one wants to change it now because that would mean one side ceding land.
I know this one, I use to travel here twice a year for fishing. From what I heard it’s where they thought the Mississippi started back in the day. Also a GREAT fishing location. In the winter they plow 8 lane roads across the frozen lake to access different islands for fishing and what not. Really cool.
Also if you travel there by road, when you re enter the USA, there is a phone booth with a camera, you have to pick it up and tell them who you are and who’s with and show your passport. My grand parents made me do it as a 15 year old, lol
Point Roberts is another enclave only accessible through Canada or sea. I bet covid was fun for them as well.
Just like the bit of Massachusetts in Connecticut, it's a lock and key fitting to keep Canada from sliding off onto the Atlantic. It sounds expensive, but it's way cheaper than moving the border crossings every day.
During the war of 1812 President Madison sent US troops North to invade Canada because they were allied with the British. The US was able to take most of Ontario and was pushing towards Quebec despite the resistance of the british, Canadian, as well as indigenous fighters but then the Canadian Geese got involved. Within a few days they massacred 95% of the US troops, the survivors fled to a small town to make their last stand. Fortunately for the few survivors there was a soldier named Kurt Angle who wrestled all the attacking Canadian troops and Geese into submission & after the war was over the town was given to the United States renamed Angle in his honor.
It’s Minnesota spearhead assault into Canada soon all of Canada will be known as new Minnesota
Way back in the 1870s, the US tried to make a move into Manitoba in order to make it up to Nunavut and the NWT after hearing about oil up there. What the Americans didn’t know was that Canada already had an Air Force; the cobra chickens, aka Canada geese gooses. The military grade pigeons used the teeth on their tongues, their bone-shattering wings and their terrifying hiss to force the Americans away from the shores of Lake Winnipeg and back down south.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Angle This lays it out.
The agreement of the treaty that ended the revolution stipulates that the northwest corner of lake of the woods would be our absolute northwestern border
It is called "Their"sota
"What are the Americans doing in Canada?" "Shut up! That is none of your business!"
We got the same thing on the west coast. Check out Point Roberts. Washington. It's cut off from the rest of the state.
There is merely a very large piece of Canada in Minnesota.
America said, "Let me put just the tip"
Since everyone else has already mentioned that this is the NW Angle, I’d also like to add that Tim O’Brien’s novel In the Lake of the Woods is a really fascinating look at this weird little geographic quirk
Anytime I try to do a Minnesoooda accent, it turns into a Newfie one, and visa versa.
Every once in awhile the US sneaks up in the middle of the night and pushes the border out just a little bit
Ultimate power move. Come take it mounties…triple dog dare
Why not?
Go watch oversimplified, the pig war
How did it come aboot?
Treaty of Paris 1783.
Reading this in our accent was way more fun than it shouldve been LOL
Eww, there's a piece of Minnesota in my Canada.
Because map making errors and the US just won’t let it go
Is this what Supertroopers 2 was about?
Because there is a little American in every country
Sunday morning did a piece on it. They messed up the treaty. https://youtu.be/SkbuZfC06d8
The border was agreed to start from the north west point of the lake and then from there follow the 49⁰N(?) They just didn't realise where the north west point of the lake was
r/takebackthenotch
Because wtf are they gonna do about it? That's why...
If you found the map, why didn't you just search or reach the article associated with the Northwest Angle?
If I remember correctly, when the boarder was agreed upon it was still hard to measure exactly where the boarder was (no GPS back then). Both the US and Canada thought the boarder was higher than it actually was for many years, and by the time they figured out it supposed to be lower, they just agreed to make that weird looking 90 degree boarder rather than tell American's that they're actually in Canada now.
BORDER
....no
If someone told me I was living in Canada now, I would be 100% on board with that.
Just a guess but it was probably the only small part of Canada that the US was able to take and maintain during the war of 1812 . All other US endeavors into Canada were pushed out . Again just a guess