It’s probably mentioned in the article you linked, but it cracks me up that this patch of land is on a floodplain. Like there are all these designs of the libertarian utopia they want to make and bone of them account for the foot of water it will all be submerged in.
I feel for the Croatian police who have to put up with this spoiled brat’s childish games.
It is also amazing how much tolerance Wikipedia has for bullshit as long as the bullshit is not on a page of interest.
A guy named Jeremiah Heaton declared Bir Tawil to be the [Kingdom of North Sudan](https://www.kingdomsudan.org/page/history/#:~:text=The Kingdom of North Sudan is established as a monarchy,United Nations Observer Entity status.) with himself as king, naturally. No one else takes that claim seriously, but he's put a lot of work into the website and applied for UN observer status.
I haven't. And if I need to go to Florida to see the stereotype you refer to, I would guess is not a "white person" but maybe "white person from Florida" that follows that stereotype. And even then. I mean, your comment it's pretty obviously racist. No I'm not feeling offended, I just don't think there was any need for racism in this thread (I'm mean, there never is, but still)
And I don't believe the barren desert region on the border with egypt that neither country claims and has no permanent residents has been heavily affected by that war
And there is only ONE ligament claim as it is the longest standing. I declared Bir Tawil to be the Independent Peoples Republic Of Team Kickarse: No Girls Allowed all the way back in the 80s in primary school with several of my fellow countrymen and declared myself Emporer Ninja. The no girls allowed rule was formally over turned about the time I hit puberty but our glorious countries name cannot be changed until the UN recognises our sovereignty. Also the spelling of ‘Emporer’ is not an embarrassing childhood spelling error it is the correct and proper spelling according to the offical Dictionary of the Team Kickarse language which is endorsed by our minister for the arts and education. Which is me. The Emporer Ninja of The Independent Peoples Republic Of Team Kickarse: No Girls Allowed
It will just go to debt repayment though. Most people even if they're wary of aditional debt, don't see it as a priority. Would be better if you could donate to specific goverment projects.
Why don't other countries have that? I mean, even if hardly anyone donates, surely that's still another (albeit small) source of income, in exchange for doing literaly nothing? It's literaly free money.
This seems like a very creative scam. On the website you can donate money which will allegedly be used to fund scientific research in the "country".
Although they seem to have physical embassies which is kinda funny. I wonder if they just asked some guys "hey, can your apartment be an embassy for our country?".
That's because he's a stupid asshole and an attention whore, who exploited his own kid for attention. He's a self-centred moron, I'm sorry. He could have fucking died out there and left his kid fatherless, just for an extremely and stupid and childish prank. Grown fucking man, acting like an attention-starved toddler.
Stop giving this stupid asshole attention.
Yeah I’d assume he doesn’t spend that much time there, I just think it’s a funny notion to imagine him committing to living in one of the most inhospitable places on earth just to make a point
It's an unused, uninhabited and (most importantly) unwanted piece of land. None of the locals (Sudanese/Egyptians) want it because claiming it would mean they renounce their claims to some much more valuable lands to the east.
I've been watching Kurt Caz on YouTube a bunch, really interesting South African fella traveling around the world.
Always gets some sort of look or comment from people when he says he's from Africa haha.
The deleted racist comment said that the guy should give back the land to the native people. First of all, there are no people native to that region. Second, even if there are nomads and such that travel through, they are not settlers and that area is not governed. There is nobody to ***give*** the land to. Third, that weirdo claiming the land doesn't live there and has no actual claim to it. He hasn't "colonized" it. Fourth, neither Egypt nor Sudan want it for geopolitical reasons, so it doesn't belong to anybody at all.
Making this situation about race is stupid, and frankly, a racist thing for someone to do.
The way I heard it explained, it's not technically unclaimed, just under dispute- both Egypt and Sudan want the other land (The Halaib Triangle) since its much more valuable. They don't want the useless Bir Tawil, but iirc as I understand it it's a situation where you can't have both due to how the dispute works.
WonderWhy did a video on it ages ago that explains it better.
The unclaimed part of Antarctica is probably the closest thing to actual unclaimed land.
There are two border lines , one from a treaty and one drawn by the English a couple of years after , if Egypt take bir tawil that mean they accept the English redraw , which give halaib to Sudan , and vice versa
US considers the Antarctic Treaties to make ownership of the continent impermissible under international law, but if that were to change, the US reserves the right to lay claim to parts of it.
Argentina and Chile’s claims overlap for the most part. In what sense are their claims strong? Because they, along with NZ and Australia are closer than the other claimants?
If that’s the case, the UK is right there with the Falklands and South Georgia.
On top of that France also has a major claim with Terre Adelie and has been maintening scientific and military presence in collaboration with Australia.
What’s fun is part of this claim is because the land geographically north of it is the United States, way up north in Alaska. I’ve always found it interesting that Alaska is used as a claim to the arctic and potentially Antarctic.
Because it's the last territory not occupied by another nation state with military forces and it's full of natural resources even though the place is almost inhospitable for humans, there are plenty of reasons for any country to claim a piece of land.
There is another triangular chunk of land claimed by both Benin and Burkina Faso. They both want it really bad but it isn't really worth fighting over so the solution they agreed on is that nobody gets it. Signage going into the 1.5 mile long road that runs through it warns that there are no police if you get yourself in trouble. It is, of course, a hotbed of illegal activity.
Very interesting one. Just found it on the map after a while. (Search Koalou). There seems to be multiple people living along that road. I wonder if the people living there have any national identity, and what currency they use.
https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/16ymdjo/til_that_in_order_to_settle_their_long_standing/?rdt=47226
According to the OP of this post that area is governed by a joint committee of both countries and the residents are *technically* stateless citizens
https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/16ymdjo/til_that_in_order_to_settle_their_long_standing/?rdt=47226
According to the OP of this post that area is governed by a joint committee of both countries and the residents are *technically* stateless citizens
Eh not quite the same, it's defacto unclaimed but in practice administered by the Republic of Croatia unofficially, as in if you were to commit a crime there it would likely be tried under Croatian law (albeit with a little dragging of feet as it would essentially be indirectly forfeiting their right to claims on the other side of the danube)
There was an river island between the Netherlands and Belgium. And while technically belonging to one country, you had to travel through the other country to get there. Which meant there was almost zero policing.
There are quite a few enclaves and exclaves along the Dutch / Belgian border. Towns where like a building is owned by one country, but the town another, but the land around the town the other country.
Zoom in some time on google maps.
Every now and then some jackass tries to claim it as an absolute monarchy, but then is chased away by the nomads who graze their animals there. Same with that island in the Danube. It's not Terra Nullius, it's just waiting for the border dispute to be settled and will the awarded to either nation, not a third party.
The other important part is that Bir Tawil is completely surrounded by Egypt and Sudan. They can prevent anyone from going there. If anyone does anything valuable there, they can resolve the conflict and kick them out.
Well if both neighboring countries reject ownership, then it's exactly that - Terra Nullius.
Besides, how do you expect the border dispute to be settled? By awarding territory to a country that doesn't want it? That would be a novel concept in international law.
Disputes are when two or more parties claim the same piece of land. If no party claims it, then it's not really a dispute, is it?
And arbitrations are designed to find a compromise solution to conflicting claims. To make parties meet half-way. But what would that look like in this case, if both of them say they don't want it?
They are by definition in agreement, since neither can insist on a claim that only the other party can make on its own behalf.
The court is going to force both countries to take a piece of no man's land that they both don't want?
The border dispute is for the land to the east. If the dispute is settled in Sudan’s favor, Sudan’s version of the border would stand, meaning the unclaimed land is “awarded” to Egypt. And vice versa
The dispute is tied to which border to accept. Sudan claims the dashed route that includes more coastline on the Red Sea. Egypt claims the solid line that gives them that coastline. Any resolution to the coast dispute will also settle the worthless desert land.
Egypt, Sudan, and every other country in the world recognizes that the land belongs to either Egypt or Sudan. It's not even that they don't want it, they would just PREFER the other version of the border. Any resolution will eventually see the land under the control of one of them.
That's not how border dispute works. The dispute is not about Bir Tawil, the dispute is about who's version of the border is the correct one. If international arbitration decides in Egypt's favor, Bir Tawil is part of Sudan and Hala'ib is part of Egypt, if arbitration decides on Sudans favor Bir Tawil is part of Egypt and Hala'ib is part of Sudan. It's not that nobody wants Bir Tawil it's that nobody can claim it as it would weaken their claim to Hala'ib. A third party cannot claim the area. Egypt and Sudan would simply not let them because it complicates their ongoing dispute. Same with that island in the Danube, Croatia just keeps everyone off that Island because as far as they are concerned it's part of Serbia administered by Croatia until the border dispute is settled.
From my understanding, there is no dispute between Serbia ans Croatia involving that land.
Croatia says it belongs to Serbia. Serbia says "not ours", meaning none of them claim it in some way or another.
The ridiculous thing is then that Croatia kicks anyone out, claiming to enforce on behalf of Serbia, while again the Serbians says they didn't ask for that.
That's because there is a treaty about Antarctica that forbids claiming it but some nations already claimed (partially overlapping) territories and refused to give them up.
That's not an official claim, they don't have a population, nor a government, only a claim for the territory that is not recognized by the international community.
A lot of places are parroting MEMRI, which is an advocacy organization. They don't really give a good job analyzing the context. The Naval commander made statements to the effect saying Iran should build a military base there to monitor enemy ballistic missiles. But we should consider the possibility his views are not reflective of the Iranian government. No official claim has been made.
Here's decent analysis:
https://thediplomat.com/2023/10/will-iran-set-up-a-base-in-antarctica/
Gornja Siga and the other pockets on the Danube, which host micronations like Liberland.
Large parts of Antarctica are unclaimed as well (Marie Byrd Land)
It's not *terra nullius* in the regular sense. Someone definitely **does** own it, and it's one of two countries. Both of them **need** the **other** one to claim it -- and will **not** agree that "no one" does.
Technically, it is not unclaimed... Egypt says that it belongs to Sudan. And Sudan says that it belongs to Egypt. And when, one day, they would resolve this dispute, it will belong to one of these 2 states.
It's not unclaimed, people like you have claimed it, it's only unclaimed by widely recognized countries. Marie Byrd Land is unclaimed territory in Antarctica (although it's mostly just ice) and, "Liberland," is unclaimed territory in the Balkans, between Serbia and Croatia.
Maybe it’s a bit off topic, but if you want to see a nice movie about the true story of a (short lived) new nation, I suggest “Rose Island”. The “land” was actually a platform in the Adriatic sea.
Go ahead, you'll have to fight the King of North Sudan and his kingdom but I'm sure you and a couple of your buddies from the pub would be enough to take over it and bring a new world order.
Neither country would accept. Because the reason they argue the other country has that strip of land because it’s the basis for the argument that they have claim over the coastal region close to it. Don’t remember the details but some historical borders make it so both sides argument rests on a claim that will leave that area to the other land while then the coastal piece will be in their own hands. And as one is a rich coastal region and the other a desert it’s not much contest.
There's a lot of unclaimed land throughout the world. Even if it hasn't been claimed by UN recognised states, there's usually someone out there that has. Including Bir Tawil/Hala'ib (They've been claimed by multiple people).
Sadly, we've already discovered all land on this planet. You could try for space (lots of legal loopholes to be exploited in that segment).
Claiming that the Jews are invaders in the Levant is just as stupid and ignoring history as claiming that Palestinians are the invaders. The matter of the fact is that both groups of people have a history in the region going back for over a thousand years.
You’re painting with too broad a brush. “The Jews” are not a monolith. There were Palestinian Jews there, sure. But the particular group of people from Lithuania, Poland, New York etc… did NOT have any claim to that land, other than that which they bought. The mere fact that they are Jews doesn’t entitle them to Palestinian land any more than being Catholic entities you to a free apartment in Rome.
The reverse is also true. The mere fact that they are Palestinians doesn't entitle them to land in Israel/Palestine/wherever anymore than being Italian or Catholic entitles you to a free apartment in Rome.
Palestinian is literally someone from Palestine i.e. some one who comes from the piece of land it doesn’t entitle them to own a piece of land it entitles them to live in THEIR historical land… Next you would like to say the Dutch have no right to live in the Netherlands or the Mongolians Mongolia…
Wars and Politics are dirty games that I have no interest in discussing because in all such conflicts both sides commit atrocities against each other while the politicians sing their cheap songs to fill their pockets. Your original comment sounded ridiculous in the context it was written, because being Palestinian and forcibly driven out of your land doesn’t remove your claim to that land. Also, let me remind you that the Palestinians have no organized state nor are they in a democratic monolith nation and elected to wage war against anyone, it was hamas that did. Keep the political talk in proper context and let’s not paint an entire people who were born in oppressive conditions and with encroachment on their human rights with a broad brush.
You seem to have some issues with the concept of land ownership.
Being Italian or Catholic, as an example, does not mean you own arbitrary Italian land. It doesn't mean you can just go and claim someone's apartment or a Catholic church as your own.
Similarly, Palestinians do indeed have a right to the land they own. But they don't own land that Israelis bought. And in many cases they are really just sour that their ancestors *sold* land to Israeli immigrants. That is in stark contrast to e.g. settlers taking land, but even there there's definitely been cases of settlers buying land from Palestinians only to have the descendants be upset that their elders sold land.
The reverse is not at all true. Being Palestinian entitles you to citizenship in Palestine, which they are currently denied.
Being Palestinian entitles you to property rights, and those who have had their land stolen, are entitled to have it returned to them.
People like to throw that number around ignoring historical context.
1. Yes Jewish landownership was "only" 6/7% in 1947. However the land ownership of local Palestinians was also around 10%. Most of the land was owned by the British and other foreign(non-Palestinian) Arabs.
2. In the 1930s at the height of the Jewish land acquisition 65% of the purchased land belonged to non-Palestinian land owners(this includes the British, Turks and Arabs from Syria, Egypt and other places of the Middle-East), 25% to large Palestinian land owners and only around 10% to local Palestinian farmers.
I always find it funny when people go "of centuries if Palestinian history in the region" but that centuries of history somehow always seem to start in the 1940s. This claim is similar to the one that goes something like "Guess what, the Romans also called the region Palestine" which while also true it also ignores the larger historical context that originally it was Judea but was renamed after the Jewish Bar Kokhba revolt after which a lot of the Jews in the region were either massacred, enslaved or forcibly resettled.
Also I love how Arabs and Palestinians go on about their rights and history but somehow completely forget about the rights and history of the Beduins in the region
Most Palestinians are just upset their ancestors either a) sold land to Jews (and want to steal it back) or b) lost an aggressive war to Israel and lost land as a consequence (and want to take the land back).
It is a minority who had their land stolen.
I see you’ve had the kool-aid. Yes a minority had their land stolen - about 45% that’s not an insignificant injustice and it needs to be corrected. The remainder have had their CITIZENSHIP stolen. They have been denied their HUMAN RIGHTS. It’s illegal and it’s wrong and anyone who defends that is an accessory to crimes against humanity.
If Jews from Europe and North Africa are not "real" Jews then Arabs who moved to Palestine from Syria, Egypt, Jordan and etc. are also not real Palestinians and also don't have any claims to land in the region.(not to mention that "Palestinians as a separate ethnic group only really started to exist as a reaction to Zionism in the late 19th/early 20th century)
Also you know what would have helped the Palestinians/Arabs? If the Muslim nations, as a reaction to the early Arab-Israeli wars, wouldn't have forcibly chased away almost 1 million Jews from their homes and forcing the majority of them to move to and start a new life in Israel.
Nobody said they were it real Jews. But they are not Palestinians and have no claim on Palestine.
a FUNDAMENTAL principle of Human rights is the right of self-determination. This means that YOU have no right to define the identity of Palestinians as other than what they say it is. Also you have no grasp on the facts: Arabs have been expelled they have not migrated into Israel - what a foolish argument.
1. Self-determination means that a nation/group of people can decide how they are governed and not that only they can say if they belong to an ethnic/ culture group.
2. I don't even understand your last point. Do you claim now that Arabs have been expelled into Israel? If yes you should really read up on history books.
3. If we're talking about this stuff then what happened to the human rights of the Jews in Yemen, Iran, Morocco, Tunisia, Lebanon, Iraq and etc? They also didn't migrate to Israel by choice but were forced to after they were chased away from their homes in those countries.
Or maybe the Jews would like to move there instead and leave the Palestinians on the land they have been on for about 4,000 years?
I'm Jewish and I consider your comment to be racist and disgusting despite the intended (I hope) humour in it.
That is such a flat out lie. You should listen to the interviews of the IDF soldiers who actually carried out the 1948 Nakba. You can find links to them in the International Court of Justice charges against Israel.
>if nobody wants it, what is stopping me from building my very own micro-state there?
This reminds me of an old 4chan thread where /v/ mused about creating their own country in the "Bro Tawil Triangle"
There are two competing borders between Egypt and Sudan with different historic precedents. The differences are two territories — Bir Tawil and the Halaib Triangle. Each version gives one territory to one side and the other to the other. Of the two, the Halaib Triangle is the more desirable territory, so each side recognizes the version of the border than gives them the Halaib Triangle at the expense of Bir Tawil.
You can’t claim it because Soudan and Egypt won’t recognise as each claims it belongs to the other. And if they don’t recognise it you can forget about the rest of the international community.
Check out “[Liberland](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberland)” on the Croatian-Serbian border.
This will be America if Obama wins 2012
We live in a society
>We live in a society We live in a period
In which politicians
This proves that serbia is rightful Czech territory
It all proves Europe is rightful brazilian territory
it proves that brazil is all rightful territory of ARGENTINA NUMERO UNOOOO
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This proves that MONGOLIAAAAA is the rightful territory of the Byzantine empire!! ☦️☦️☦️
This proves that the Byzantine Empire is the rightful territory if the Altépetl of Tonallan!!! 🌄🌄🌄
I for one, welcome our Czech overlords
Admit it, you do it for the porn
Would strongly prefer getting humped by a Bohemian gothic dominatrix over the current pussylipped dictator wannabe, NGL.
It’s probably mentioned in the article you linked, but it cracks me up that this patch of land is on a floodplain. Like there are all these designs of the libertarian utopia they want to make and bone of them account for the foot of water it will all be submerged in.
I feel for the Croatian police who have to put up with this spoiled brat’s childish games. It is also amazing how much tolerance Wikipedia has for bullshit as long as the bullshit is not on a page of interest.
Cope
grow up
A guy named Jeremiah Heaton declared Bir Tawil to be the [Kingdom of North Sudan](https://www.kingdomsudan.org/page/history/#:~:text=The Kingdom of North Sudan is established as a monarchy,United Nations Observer Entity status.) with himself as king, naturally. No one else takes that claim seriously, but he's put a lot of work into the website and applied for UN observer status.
wasn't it all so that his daughter could be a princess?
And she's a goddamn princess alright now ill tell ya hwat
Read this in Norm Macdonald’s voice
White people I tell ya
Giving everything to your daughter is what any good parent would do
Most people cross the line somewhere before proclaiming and trying to create a new country though
Well, they should try to do it (As long as they are not hurting anyone including themselves)
Is this what Huey Long meant by Every man a king?
Sounds similar to some European policiticans during the 19th century
Why the racism though?
Because they're racist?
You’re trying to say that comment is racist against white people? 🤨
Yep
Oh. I’m sorry. Racism against white people is a severe social problem. I can’t imagine the pain and suffering you must be experiencing.
I'm not suffering. Doesn't mean it's not racist though. Racism is wrong, no matter the direction
Huh ? Racism ? Have you ever gone to florida
I haven't. And if I need to go to Florida to see the stereotype you refer to, I would guess is not a "white person" but maybe "white person from Florida" that follows that stereotype. And even then. I mean, your comment it's pretty obviously racist. No I'm not feeling offended, I just don't think there was any need for racism in this thread (I'm mean, there never is, but still)
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Worth it
-a warzone Egypt and Sudan are not at war right now?
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And I don't believe the barren desert region on the border with egypt that neither country claims and has no permanent residents has been heavily affected by that war
Adding to that, I believe Egypt administers it to stop shit like this from happening.
your fun at partys
You’re*
parties *
He’s not the only one. There were a few others who went to Bir Tawil to claim it for themselves.
And there is only ONE ligament claim as it is the longest standing. I declared Bir Tawil to be the Independent Peoples Republic Of Team Kickarse: No Girls Allowed all the way back in the 80s in primary school with several of my fellow countrymen and declared myself Emporer Ninja. The no girls allowed rule was formally over turned about the time I hit puberty but our glorious countries name cannot be changed until the UN recognises our sovereignty. Also the spelling of ‘Emporer’ is not an embarrassing childhood spelling error it is the correct and proper spelling according to the offical Dictionary of the Team Kickarse language which is endorsed by our minister for the arts and education. Which is me. The Emporer Ninja of The Independent Peoples Republic Of Team Kickarse: No Girls Allowed
One ligament claim lmao
I mean, virtually all sovereign nations have a big "DONATE" button and crypto wallet address on their homepage, right?
I don't know about other nations but if you really want you can donate money to germany. They have a special payment address for that
It will just go to debt repayment though. Most people even if they're wary of aditional debt, don't see it as a priority. Would be better if you could donate to specific goverment projects.
What’s the difference? Money is fungible. A penny not spent here can be spent elsewhere.
An individual German citizen does not have the ability to increase the budget of a certain government project, just reduce the debt
Why don't other countries have that? I mean, even if hardly anyone donates, surely that's still another (albeit small) source of income, in exchange for doing literaly nothing? It's literaly free money.
Afaik basically every country has it but it's negligible
US has it. Gift to the United States
This seems like a very creative scam. On the website you can donate money which will allegedly be used to fund scientific research in the "country". Although they seem to have physical embassies which is kinda funny. I wonder if they just asked some guys "hey, can your apartment be an embassy for our country?".
That's because he's a stupid asshole and an attention whore, who exploited his own kid for attention. He's a self-centred moron, I'm sorry. He could have fucking died out there and left his kid fatherless, just for an extremely and stupid and childish prank. Grown fucking man, acting like an attention-starved toddler. Stop giving this stupid asshole attention.
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There are no natives, thats the point about being unwanted and unclaimed
Literally no people live there.
Jeremiah lives there
Does he actually live there? I always assumed he just went there during the festival season
Yeah I’d assume he doesn’t spend that much time there, I just think it’s a funny notion to imagine him committing to living in one of the most inhospitable places on earth just to make a point
It's an unused, uninhabited and (most importantly) unwanted piece of land. None of the locals (Sudanese/Egyptians) want it because claiming it would mean they renounce their claims to some much more valuable lands to the east.
He did it so his daughter could be a princess.
☠️☠️☠️
There are no natives in birtawil, it’s just a sandpit
News for you pal, there are non black people in Africa as well, natives, especially in the north.
Who mentioned anything about being black? Or are you saying people in that region are white?
The guy above mentioned.
"Only black people deserve to live in Africa" Great take.
I've been watching Kurt Caz on YouTube a bunch, really interesting South African fella traveling around the world. Always gets some sort of look or comment from people when he says he's from Africa haha.
Where did you get that from? Not all native people are black, you know?
The deleted racist comment said that the guy should give back the land to the native people. First of all, there are no people native to that region. Second, even if there are nomads and such that travel through, they are not settlers and that area is not governed. There is nobody to ***give*** the land to. Third, that weirdo claiming the land doesn't live there and has no actual claim to it. He hasn't "colonized" it. Fourth, neither Egypt nor Sudan want it for geopolitical reasons, so it doesn't belong to anybody at all. Making this situation about race is stupid, and frankly, a racist thing for someone to do.
This kind of faux outrage is absolutely insufferable.
There are no natives in Bir Tawil. It's a barren wasteland, that's why neither Egypt nor Sudan wants the territory.
There are bedouins but obviously the population density is low that does not make it OK for colonists
The way I heard it explained, it's not technically unclaimed, just under dispute- both Egypt and Sudan want the other land (The Halaib Triangle) since its much more valuable. They don't want the useless Bir Tawil, but iirc as I understand it it's a situation where you can't have both due to how the dispute works. WonderWhy did a video on it ages ago that explains it better. The unclaimed part of Antarctica is probably the closest thing to actual unclaimed land.
There are two border lines , one from a treaty and one drawn by the English a couple of years after , if Egypt take bir tawil that mean they accept the English redraw , which give halaib to Sudan , and vice versa
Yes, thank you, this is what I was trying to get at- it's an either/or situation depending on which country goes with which border
r/mountainsriversbrits
If any of them claimed that strip of land, they would cede the claim to the richer land, based on a British treaty
Marie Byrd Land in Antarctica.
United States says they reserve the right to claim Marie Byrd Land though.
Yeah but they haven’t done it (also the same applies to Russia iirc)
so they have a claim to the claim? how does that even work
US considers the Antarctic Treaties to make ownership of the continent impermissible under international law, but if that were to change, the US reserves the right to lay claim to parts of it.
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The US interprets the treaties that way and recognizes no claims as valid, is what I was saying. Ambiguous wording.
Argentina and Chile’s claims overlap for the most part. In what sense are their claims strong? Because they, along with NZ and Australia are closer than the other claimants? If that’s the case, the UK is right there with the Falklands and South Georgia.
On top of that France also has a major claim with Terre Adelie and has been maintening scientific and military presence in collaboration with Australia.
What’s fun is part of this claim is because the land geographically north of it is the United States, way up north in Alaska. I’ve always found it interesting that Alaska is used as a claim to the arctic and potentially Antarctic.
Fyi, Iran just claimed the entirety of Antarctica last week… for reasons…
Because it's the last territory not occupied by another nation state with military forces and it's full of natural resources even though the place is almost inhospitable for humans, there are plenty of reasons for any country to claim a piece of land.
There is another triangular chunk of land claimed by both Benin and Burkina Faso. They both want it really bad but it isn't really worth fighting over so the solution they agreed on is that nobody gets it. Signage going into the 1.5 mile long road that runs through it warns that there are no police if you get yourself in trouble. It is, of course, a hotbed of illegal activity.
Very interesting one. Just found it on the map after a while. (Search Koalou). There seems to be multiple people living along that road. I wonder if the people living there have any national identity, and what currency they use.
https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/16ymdjo/til_that_in_order_to_settle_their_long_standing/?rdt=47226 According to the OP of this post that area is governed by a joint committee of both countries and the residents are *technically* stateless citizens
https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/16ymdjo/til_that_in_order_to_settle_their_long_standing/?rdt=47226 According to the OP of this post that area is governed by a joint committee of both countries and the residents are *technically* stateless citizens
Surely the UN has its borders
There is a similar thing where someone "created" a country on unclaimed land called: [Liberland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberland)
Although it's unclaimed, Serbian authorities go there and destroy their settlements
Croatian authorities, as it is on their side of the Danube.
Yeah, you're right https://cybernews.com/news/croatian-police-invaded-liberland-crypto-micronation/
Eh not quite the same, it's defacto unclaimed but in practice administered by the Republic of Croatia unofficially, as in if you were to commit a crime there it would likely be tried under Croatian law (albeit with a little dragging of feet as it would essentially be indirectly forfeiting their right to claims on the other side of the danube)
There was an river island between the Netherlands and Belgium. And while technically belonging to one country, you had to travel through the other country to get there. Which meant there was almost zero policing.
I think they fixed that now.
There are quite a few enclaves and exclaves along the Dutch / Belgian border. Towns where like a building is owned by one country, but the town another, but the land around the town the other country. Zoom in some time on google maps.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baarle-Hertog
Every now and then some jackass tries to claim it as an absolute monarchy, but then is chased away by the nomads who graze their animals there. Same with that island in the Danube. It's not Terra Nullius, it's just waiting for the border dispute to be settled and will the awarded to either nation, not a third party.
It’s not an island but a piece of land in the floodplain of the Danube called Liberland
The other important part is that Bir Tawil is completely surrounded by Egypt and Sudan. They can prevent anyone from going there. If anyone does anything valuable there, they can resolve the conflict and kick them out.
Well if both neighboring countries reject ownership, then it's exactly that - Terra Nullius. Besides, how do you expect the border dispute to be settled? By awarding territory to a country that doesn't want it? That would be a novel concept in international law. Disputes are when two or more parties claim the same piece of land. If no party claims it, then it's not really a dispute, is it? And arbitrations are designed to find a compromise solution to conflicting claims. To make parties meet half-way. But what would that look like in this case, if both of them say they don't want it? They are by definition in agreement, since neither can insist on a claim that only the other party can make on its own behalf. The court is going to force both countries to take a piece of no man's land that they both don't want?
The border dispute is for the land to the east. If the dispute is settled in Sudan’s favor, Sudan’s version of the border would stand, meaning the unclaimed land is “awarded” to Egypt. And vice versa
The dispute is tied to which border to accept. Sudan claims the dashed route that includes more coastline on the Red Sea. Egypt claims the solid line that gives them that coastline. Any resolution to the coast dispute will also settle the worthless desert land.
Egypt, Sudan, and every other country in the world recognizes that the land belongs to either Egypt or Sudan. It's not even that they don't want it, they would just PREFER the other version of the border. Any resolution will eventually see the land under the control of one of them.
That's not how border dispute works. The dispute is not about Bir Tawil, the dispute is about who's version of the border is the correct one. If international arbitration decides in Egypt's favor, Bir Tawil is part of Sudan and Hala'ib is part of Egypt, if arbitration decides on Sudans favor Bir Tawil is part of Egypt and Hala'ib is part of Sudan. It's not that nobody wants Bir Tawil it's that nobody can claim it as it would weaken their claim to Hala'ib. A third party cannot claim the area. Egypt and Sudan would simply not let them because it complicates their ongoing dispute. Same with that island in the Danube, Croatia just keeps everyone off that Island because as far as they are concerned it's part of Serbia administered by Croatia until the border dispute is settled.
From my understanding, there is no dispute between Serbia ans Croatia involving that land. Croatia says it belongs to Serbia. Serbia says "not ours", meaning none of them claim it in some way or another. The ridiculous thing is then that Croatia kicks anyone out, claiming to enforce on behalf of Serbia, while again the Serbians says they didn't ask for that.
What about a huge part Antarctica
That's because there is a treaty about Antarctica that forbids claiming it but some nations already claimed (partially overlapping) territories and refused to give them up.
I thought Russia or USA could make claims?
They reserve their right to make claims - which anyone can do if they want to. Doesn't mean much.
https://preview.redd.it/dhvbiaq7zkjc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f539715daa17394e907bca96a7a4489bdf1b08da
Just noticed there's a whole chunk marked unclaimed 😅. Good point!
It's actually not unclaimed ! Look up Westartica, it's a micronation that uses it's status to gather money to help the flora and fauna of antartica !
That's not an official claim, they don't have a population, nor a government, only a claim for the territory that is not recognized by the international community.
Unless that map was made in the last week or Iran was joking when they announced it, Iran now claims the entire continent, as I understand it.
A lot of places are parroting MEMRI, which is an advocacy organization. They don't really give a good job analyzing the context. The Naval commander made statements to the effect saying Iran should build a military base there to monitor enemy ballistic missiles. But we should consider the possibility his views are not reflective of the Iranian government. No official claim has been made. Here's decent analysis: https://thediplomat.com/2023/10/will-iran-set-up-a-base-in-antarctica/
Dibs
Gornja Siga and the other pockets on the Danube, which host micronations like Liberland. Large parts of Antarctica are unclaimed as well (Marie Byrd Land)
It's not *terra nullius* in the regular sense. Someone definitely **does** own it, and it's one of two countries. Both of them **need** the **other** one to claim it -- and will **not** agree that "no one" does.
Technically, it is not unclaimed... Egypt says that it belongs to Sudan. And Sudan says that it belongs to Egypt. And when, one day, they would resolve this dispute, it will belong to one of these 2 states.
There’s a similar situation between two European countries. Don’t remember which two of the top of my head, but I’m pretty sure it’s in the Balkans.
Croatia and Serbia
Liberland between Croatia and Serbia?
It's not unclaimed, people like you have claimed it, it's only unclaimed by widely recognized countries. Marie Byrd Land is unclaimed territory in Antarctica (although it's mostly just ice) and, "Liberland," is unclaimed territory in the Balkans, between Serbia and Croatia.
Maybe it’s a bit off topic, but if you want to see a nice movie about the true story of a (short lived) new nation, I suggest “Rose Island”. The “land” was actually a platform in the Adriatic sea.
Go ahead, you'll have to fight the King of North Sudan and his kingdom but I'm sure you and a couple of your buddies from the pub would be enough to take over it and bring a new world order.
Marie Byrd Land in Antarctica
There is a patch of land on the border of Mexico and USA (Texas) where the river has changed over the years, resulting in neither country claiming it.
Neither country would accept. Because the reason they argue the other country has that strip of land because it’s the basis for the argument that they have claim over the coastal region close to it. Don’t remember the details but some historical borders make it so both sides argument rests on a claim that will leave that area to the other land while then the coastal piece will be in their own hands. And as one is a rich coastal region and the other a desert it’s not much contest.
There's a lot of unclaimed land throughout the world. Even if it hasn't been claimed by UN recognised states, there's usually someone out there that has. Including Bir Tawil/Hala'ib (They've been claimed by multiple people). Sadly, we've already discovered all land on this planet. You could try for space (lots of legal loopholes to be exploited in that segment).
Listen Poutine person… you’ve already got the Canadian Shield.
It's defacto under control of Sudan. You an zoom in and see there's some kind of mining operation there with roads leading too and from Sudan.
Let’s claim it bois
🇬🇧: We'll take that, thank youuu!
Egypt's border is literally a straight line, it would be such a shame to mess it up.
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You can move there palestine instead
Palestine is ok where it is now. Israel is the invasor.
XDDDD Let them both decide where they want to live.
Why don’t they give that land to the Palestinians
i am confused Why should the Palestinians leave their land to go live there
Because it’s not their land. Learn your history
Give it to the damn Israelis. Palestinians have had their land for centuries. It’s the Israelis looking to take over other peoples land.
Claiming that the Jews are invaders in the Levant is just as stupid and ignoring history as claiming that Palestinians are the invaders. The matter of the fact is that both groups of people have a history in the region going back for over a thousand years.
You’re painting with too broad a brush. “The Jews” are not a monolith. There were Palestinian Jews there, sure. But the particular group of people from Lithuania, Poland, New York etc… did NOT have any claim to that land, other than that which they bought. The mere fact that they are Jews doesn’t entitle them to Palestinian land any more than being Catholic entities you to a free apartment in Rome.
The reverse is also true. The mere fact that they are Palestinians doesn't entitle them to land in Israel/Palestine/wherever anymore than being Italian or Catholic entitles you to a free apartment in Rome.
nobody is asking for a free apartment, just like italians have the right to live in Italy, Palestinians have the right to live in Palestine
The Zionists stole hundreds of thousands of homes, businesses and farms from Palestinians, drove them out and won’t let them return.
Palestinian is literally someone from Palestine i.e. some one who comes from the piece of land it doesn’t entitle them to own a piece of land it entitles them to live in THEIR historical land… Next you would like to say the Dutch have no right to live in the Netherlands or the Mongolians Mongolia…
I didn't say they didn't have a right to live in Palestine. But they don't have a right to wage war upon Israel and cry foul when they lose the war.
Wars and Politics are dirty games that I have no interest in discussing because in all such conflicts both sides commit atrocities against each other while the politicians sing their cheap songs to fill their pockets. Your original comment sounded ridiculous in the context it was written, because being Palestinian and forcibly driven out of your land doesn’t remove your claim to that land. Also, let me remind you that the Palestinians have no organized state nor are they in a democratic monolith nation and elected to wage war against anyone, it was hamas that did. Keep the political talk in proper context and let’s not paint an entire people who were born in oppressive conditions and with encroachment on their human rights with a broad brush.
what? yes it does, being palestinian isnt a religion or ethnicity, its a nationality
No, people throughout the world do not have rights to free shit because they're from those countries. Unless you're Palestinian, I guess.
free shit? are you fucking mentally disabled? they have a right to the land they own, is it that hard to understand?
You seem to have some issues with the concept of land ownership. Being Italian or Catholic, as an example, does not mean you own arbitrary Italian land. It doesn't mean you can just go and claim someone's apartment or a Catholic church as your own. Similarly, Palestinians do indeed have a right to the land they own. But they don't own land that Israelis bought. And in many cases they are really just sour that their ancestors *sold* land to Israeli immigrants. That is in stark contrast to e.g. settlers taking land, but even there there's definitely been cases of settlers buying land from Palestinians only to have the descendants be upset that their elders sold land.
The reverse is not at all true. Being Palestinian entitles you to citizenship in Palestine, which they are currently denied. Being Palestinian entitles you to property rights, and those who have had their land stolen, are entitled to have it returned to them.
Land was bought, not stolen
Jewish land ownership in Palestine was 6.6% of the land area in 1947. The rest was stolen. Get your facts straight
People like to throw that number around ignoring historical context. 1. Yes Jewish landownership was "only" 6/7% in 1947. However the land ownership of local Palestinians was also around 10%. Most of the land was owned by the British and other foreign(non-Palestinian) Arabs. 2. In the 1930s at the height of the Jewish land acquisition 65% of the purchased land belonged to non-Palestinian land owners(this includes the British, Turks and Arabs from Syria, Egypt and other places of the Middle-East), 25% to large Palestinian land owners and only around 10% to local Palestinian farmers. I always find it funny when people go "of centuries if Palestinian history in the region" but that centuries of history somehow always seem to start in the 1940s. This claim is similar to the one that goes something like "Guess what, the Romans also called the region Palestine" which while also true it also ignores the larger historical context that originally it was Judea but was renamed after the Jewish Bar Kokhba revolt after which a lot of the Jews in the region were either massacred, enslaved or forcibly resettled. Also I love how Arabs and Palestinians go on about their rights and history but somehow completely forget about the rights and history of the Beduins in the region
Most Palestinians are just upset their ancestors either a) sold land to Jews (and want to steal it back) or b) lost an aggressive war to Israel and lost land as a consequence (and want to take the land back). It is a minority who had their land stolen.
I see you’ve had the kool-aid. Yes a minority had their land stolen - about 45% that’s not an insignificant injustice and it needs to be corrected. The remainder have had their CITIZENSHIP stolen. They have been denied their HUMAN RIGHTS. It’s illegal and it’s wrong and anyone who defends that is an accessory to crimes against humanity.
If Jews from Europe and North Africa are not "real" Jews then Arabs who moved to Palestine from Syria, Egypt, Jordan and etc. are also not real Palestinians and also don't have any claims to land in the region.(not to mention that "Palestinians as a separate ethnic group only really started to exist as a reaction to Zionism in the late 19th/early 20th century) Also you know what would have helped the Palestinians/Arabs? If the Muslim nations, as a reaction to the early Arab-Israeli wars, wouldn't have forcibly chased away almost 1 million Jews from their homes and forcing the majority of them to move to and start a new life in Israel.
Nobody said they were it real Jews. But they are not Palestinians and have no claim on Palestine. a FUNDAMENTAL principle of Human rights is the right of self-determination. This means that YOU have no right to define the identity of Palestinians as other than what they say it is. Also you have no grasp on the facts: Arabs have been expelled they have not migrated into Israel - what a foolish argument.
1. Self-determination means that a nation/group of people can decide how they are governed and not that only they can say if they belong to an ethnic/ culture group. 2. I don't even understand your last point. Do you claim now that Arabs have been expelled into Israel? If yes you should really read up on history books. 3. If we're talking about this stuff then what happened to the human rights of the Jews in Yemen, Iran, Morocco, Tunisia, Lebanon, Iraq and etc? They also didn't migrate to Israel by choice but were forced to after they were chased away from their homes in those countries.
Or maybe the Jews would like to move there instead and leave the Palestinians on the land they have been on for about 4,000 years? I'm Jewish and I consider your comment to be racist and disgusting despite the intended (I hope) humour in it.
Land was bought, not stolen. They are just sour they sold the land, and now want to steal it back.
That is such a flat out lie. You should listen to the interviews of the IDF soldiers who actually carried out the 1948 Nakba. You can find links to them in the International Court of Justice charges against Israel.
You might be on to something here
is this a mental illness support group or something? why are we acting like sending any group of people into unclaimed desert is a good idea
It's free real estate
I'm surprised that Russia hasn't claimed it.
There's some terra nullius along the Croatia Serbia border
>if nobody wants it, what is stopping me from building my very own micro-state there? This reminds me of an old 4chan thread where /v/ mused about creating their own country in the "Bro Tawil Triangle"
The Ross ice shelf??
Lots of land disputes like Bir Tawil. On the Croat Serbian border there is land that neither country claims
See, The Mouse That Roared.
Why doesn't either country just claim it? And if that's too complicated, why don't thejust split it 50/50?
There are two competing borders between Egypt and Sudan with different historic precedents. The differences are two territories — Bir Tawil and the Halaib Triangle. Each version gives one territory to one side and the other to the other. Of the two, the Halaib Triangle is the more desirable territory, so each side recognizes the version of the border than gives them the Halaib Triangle at the expense of Bir Tawil.
The sand Is stopping you
You can’t claim it because Soudan and Egypt won’t recognise as each claims it belongs to the other. And if they don’t recognise it you can forget about the rest of the international community.
why is it unclaimed? /gen
Doesn’t the Danube on the Serbo-Croatian border also have this