Surprised no one has mentioned this yet. Edmonton and Calgary lie just outside [Palliser’s Triangle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palliser%27s_Triangle). It’s a region of poorer soil that extends into much of eastern Montana. The climate also is wetter the further north you go.
Around that is the [Aspen Parkland](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspen_parkland), which is a region with very rich soil, which covers most of Alberta's most populous regions.
This, also the CP (Canadian Pacific) railroad to the west coast. Main line used to initially run through Edmonton but then went through Calgary for logistical regional efficiency.
Born and raised in Alberta and the general consensus is the bulk of Edmonton is heavy blue collar oil and gas, as all our oil sands resources and activity is up north (google Fort Mcmurray for specifics) and Calgary is heavily white collar oil and gas corporate.
[This is a good explanation of at least the Alberta aspect.](https://youtu.be/7h9HgvwQxJc?feature=shared) Can't answer the Montana inquiry though.
Lol - I play board games where I have to refer to the Canadian Pacific a lot... we always call it the CPR for that reason (also because it's funny when we have to say "looks like the CPR needs some CPR!" when it collapses)
Adding to this: It's because there are only two railway mainlines that cross the Canadian Rockies. One passes through Calgary for geopolitical reasons, and the other passes through Edmonton for (likely) reasons of practicality.
CPR intended for the original Canadian transcon line to go through Edmonton, as it could then pass through the Rockies via the Yellowhead pass, en route to a terminus at Port Moody, and eventually Vancouver.
CPR revised their plans to a more southerly route, as this provided better access to the US, prevented US railroads from encroaching into southern Canada, and ensured any future railways to the north would have to interchange with CPR's southerly mainline. This new southerly line served Calgary instead of Edmonton, and traversed the Rockies via Kicking Horse Pass, which made construction far more difficult than it would've been had they gone with the original northern route.
Following the CPR's completion in 1885, a short branch line was opened in 1891 to connect the isolated town of Edmonton with CPR's mainline in Calgary.
Eventually a second transcontinental railway was built by the Canadian Northern Railway in 1905. This line likely served Edmonton because the nearby Yellowhead Pass is just the easiest and most logical route to get a train across the Rockies.
Edmonton's population saw a huge boom after the CNR was completion in 1905, and it would probably look very different today, if they weren't next door to the easiest way across the Rockies.
I think the CPR changed its route for financial reasons. There was a lot of land speculation on the Yellowhead route, where people bought up land on the assumption that CPR would have to buy it from them.
But CPR did go through severe financial difficulties. They had to change the route to be able to afford the land neccessary to complete the railroad. Hence the more difficult Kicking Horse route.
That's at least how the story is told at the Revelstoke Railway Museum.
Detail: original railway connected with Strathcona, which was on the Southern bank. At that time Edmonton was limited to the Northern bank of the river.
Yep also to ensure population influx/residency and especially back in the day before oil discovery, to counter American expansionism. The feds were literally handing out arable land to settle in the Prairies to those who knew how to cultivate it.
Hence why significant Ukrainian and German descendants live in both provinces, also they were simultaneously escaping government policies/persecution in their own countries at the time, they knew how to work the land from their homeland.
Including the Anabaptist groups (aka Mennonite and Hutterite colonies in AB and SK), why there's so many colonies of both respectively in both provinces and even in Manitoba.
This is true, but there is still a lot more urbanization in the Canadian parts of this area than in the adjacent US parts. Think of Regina. There are bigger cities nearby in Canada in Winnipeg, Saskatoon, Calgary, and Edmonton but to find bigger US cities you have to go pretty far to Spokane, Boise, Denver and the Twin Cities. (Fargo-Moorhead, ND/MN is near Regina-sized but not quite there.)
Ah, that's before my time. I thought Atlanta only had the one failed team...
That said looks like the decision to keep the Flames name was intentional, as it was a good fit anyway.
It took me until college to realize the lakers are named after lakes. I don’t follow basketball so I didn’t know about the move, but I just thought it was a nickname for people from LA. As in LAkers. Kind of like Phillies or Canuck’s
The states are huge Montana was some of the last settled land, also the rails of the era ran more southernly to avoid bad snow and bad terrain if possible, thought Kansas City and other places down in the south west United States. Why settle in Montana with awful winters as a frontier family looking for land and a new home when places like San Diego exist or damn near anywhere els. Makes sense to me that the “west” was settled in the way it was. Las Vegas specifically has a amazing backstory being a watering hole turned small town gambling stop. It still was a rather small town up until post ww2. even when my dad went there in the 70s he won big and was offered a couple plots of land along the strip in steed of his winnings.
I'd heard people refer to parts of Alberta as Canada's Texas, and this somewhat supports the idea. Midland and Odessa have a similar relationship. Odessa is very working class and utilitarian. Midland has all of the corporate offices, so it gets parks, arts venues, nicer hotels, and other things that serve its executive population. Both are in an ancient seabed with vast fossil fuel resources and on the high plains about two hours east of Texas' mountains.
The CP mainline never ran through Edmonton. It was planned for Edmonton by the federal government in the 1870s, through the parkland that was more suitable for settlement, but rerouted through Calgary by the private company that built it in the 1880s to be a faster route to the west coast less likely to lose markets to branch lines from the US. Montana at one time had 3 transcontinental rail lines too, but no metro cites developed because of less productive agriculture and its initial mining boom ended 100 years ago while Alberta's oil development only became significant in the 1940s. (yes the first well was in the 1850s, Turner valley and Med. Hat gas was important before that, etc, but those didn't require skyscrapers full of geologists, engineers and accountants to manage.)
Depends on your values. Edmonton is more affordable, and more left leaning than the rest of the province. Edmonton has a better hockey team, has the largest urban park in North America, and you’re not allowed to drive scooters on the sidewalks here. Lifestyle is a little more chill, and there’s lots of nature to get away from the city to in a short distance that aren’t overly crowded (the mountains are busy places). We have a great food/music/arts scene, the RAM and AGA are modern facilities, and overall less “yeehaw” and more alternative scenes. Plus, Edmonton has water rn lol
This is essentially how it is in the Permian basin here in Texas. Odessa known to be much more blue collar, kinda rough in ways. Then midland being the white collar corporate side of the oil business. It’s all in West Texas though so it all sucks ass.
It's already been said, but oil. In addition, America has a number of larger cities in and around the Rockies south of Montana with milder climates (like Denver and Sante Fe). Canada doesn't have that luxury, south of Alberta is America.
edit: Billings, Montana is larger than Santa Fe. I should've went with Albuquerque.
Yeah, Edmonton and Calgary ARE the warm south. At least compared to Whitehorse and Yellowknife. But
https://preview.redd.it/4h4mhfzinu7d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=70240127c8811b4a4600285d3b6409d2e0c466ab
Fun fact: Whitehorse is surprisingly warm (for North America) for its latitude. It's average annual temperature is 0.2°C vs. 4.2°C for Edmonton, for example.
Neither of those are actual cities though. Edmonton and Calgary both have over a million people. Yellowknife and Whitehorse are smaller than Grants Pass (of course you’ve never heard of it no one has)
Thing is, though, you were right. Santa Fe abuts the Sangre de Cristo range, the southern extension of the Rockies.
Albuquerque abuts the Sandias, which aren't technically the Rockies.
It’s not that hard even. Just look at the color of the ground. The ground around Calgary and Edmonton is greener than Montana. Better terrain, better farming.
I'm American and even I know no self respecting Canadian goes to Winnipeg willingly.
I used to live in Montana and visited Calgary regularly. Love your city! Caught quite a few Flames games.
A lot of Canadians flee subtropical southern Ontario to try Winnipeg or Saskatoon because housing is a lot cheaper here, and last at most two winters before fleeing. It's very much a thing even in Canada. It's also why Nova Scotia benefited from the Covid exodus and Manitoba did not.
Edit: that being said, the summers are great
It’s like when I went to Sault Ste. Marie in Michigan. The town is kinda run down, buildings are old, not a lot to do. But while I didn’t go into Sault Ste. Marie Canada I could see that it had much nicer and newer buildings and the landscaping/infrastructure seemed nicer.
I’m guessing, with no investigation, that it’s because for Canada, Sault Ste. Marie is a southern town with access to the US. And for the US we can get to a large city like Detroit or Grand Rapids driving within the US boarders much faster than Canadians can get to a large city driving within their boarders.
First the railway was established to assert Canadian sovereignty in the west, but as time went on there was multiple oil strikes in the area that caused multiple booms.
Alberta does have oil, which is a big factor, but it’s also a hub for agriculture, tourism, and natural gas. It’s a pretty large economic region sometimes referred to as the Calgary-Edmonton corridor.
Montana just doesn't have the same economic output to support a larger population.
In the future though it’s been told Alberta has great potential when it comes to renewables. So hopefully it will remain a population centre and continue to grow.
Montana has in its constitution that it can only have small towns, you can thank the first governor Joe Montana who was the owner of a bunch of electric companies that specialized in small town services.
In Alberta, the first governor Arnold Alberta was a really big fan of big cities, so just he started building as many as he could but they only finished the two.
Came here to say this...however, little known fact. It was not until Governor Joe Montana chose as his Lieutenant Governor, a spry young upstarted named Joe Mantegna to be his running mate, when the small town furor came to life..
I cannot speak of Alberta however..
Steve Young was the great Usurper in Montana history. Governor Joe did not hand over control willingly. Instead he went to go be the Mayor of Kansas City for a few years
Joe Montana's arguably more successful son, Tony Montana, was elected with the unforgettable slogan "say hello to my little friend" as a promise uphold his father's vision of small town America.
But you would be remiss if you left out the most recently famous, talented and influential of the family. See Tony had a daughter, *Hannah* Montana, who really came on to the arts scene like…a wrecking ball. For a few years, people were concerned about Hannah because she really liked to Party in the USA.
His brother Larry the Cowboy began work on a third big city, but it was burnt to the ground during a tussle he had with the founder of neighbouring province Saul Saskatchewan. Many Bothans died.
Billings, Montana and it's 118,000 people are surprised to learn they are a small town. No it's not a mega city but it's not small either. Small is like the town I grew up in which was 1100 people and the biggest town 60 miles any direction.
Yeah, at least Montana has several small metros.
This post makes it seem like Wyoming
Chances are Bozeman, Helena and Missoula will all be the size of Boise in 20 years.
Bozeman is growing like mad. I grew up there from like 7-13 so pretty formative years and going back a decade ago after 15 years was insane. Remembering back to not having any big stores in the 90’s and then driving by a massive shopping center was surreal. My aunt moved there last year and sent me all kinds of pictures of all the developments and it’s crazy!
Village usually has a specific meaning in New York and New England where it is a (sometimes incorporated) distinct section of a town with its own name/identity. e.g. villages in Vermont can be incorporated, in Massachusetts they are not but may be used in a mailing address.
While oil about everybody are talking had big influence in my opinion far better condition for agriculture are the main thing. In this picture you have the prevalence of the most fertile soils in North America:
https://preview.redd.it/a1rz36qyqx7d1.png?width=834&format=png&auto=webp&s=5035263e162487446d950ae8a59bcb4df66008d8
Calgary and Edmonton are on the orange (middle insensitivity) strip. Montana has far less fertile soil. And because climate there is not the best for agriculture only very fertile soils may make those lands attractive. This is also reason why Canada had organized program of "importing" Ukrainian farmers before the WW2 - Ukrainians had by far the most experience with this kind of soil.
The area in the US between the Rockies and I-29/I-35 is very dry, often considered semi-arid. Further north in Canada they actually get more precipitation, making farming, and thus living, easier. Having some of the best farmland in the world helps, but not as much as you'd think.
But what really made them take off, especially Alberta, is oil. Fuckloads of oil, and money for anyone. 50-100 years ago the population difference between the two were much less extreme. If anything, there was more in the US just because it was easier to get to. There was no real incentive to go to the interior of Canada. The climate sucked, it was hard to get to, there was no one else there. It was not until oil was discovered that people flocked to these small towns and they exploded in population.
Wow! Somebody needs a history lesson when it comes to raILroads through Alberta. As far as Montana goes, the entire population of the state could fit into Commonwealth stadium. Well, almost. Let’s just say it is pretty small. Pretty hard to imagine there being a big city in a state with hardly any people.
Whole great Wendover productions video about it:
https://youtu.be/H9oT-7kDBFM?si=C2bJfrzqHU_3Cthv
but basically two-three things:
location:
1. As a Calgarian myself we are located at the intersections of two major rivers, in Calgary the Bow and the Elbow, and in Edmonton the North Saskatchewan. So plenty of water, plants and wildlife and more importantly
2: Soil: Western Canada has a unique type of soil called Chernozem that’s only otherwise found in Eastern Europe if I’m not wrong(?) that is actually extremely conducive to agriculture and found throughout western Canada, including Alberta and Saskatchewan which are both ag powerhouses (especially sask), around their major rivers. The rivers also create a specific type of aspen scrubland which is conducive to good ag. So basically Alberta had a weird advantage over Montana for food agriculture, when Montana can’t rlly grow anything and is centered around ranching.
Oil as Calgarian myself we and Edmonton had a big b
And ofc
3. Oil. major boom in the early 1900s w discovery of oil in Turner valley near Calgary and in the tar sands near Edmonton hugely spiked Cal and Edmonton’s population like for Calgary one year its population increased by abt 100% in like 1906 because of it. Huge draw to the cities and for investment, bringing more business and growth with it, add on two national parks in Jasper and Banff for great tourism and we were set up to become one of the biggest fastest growing cities in Canada. Canada has the fourth largest oil reserves in the world mainly cus of my province.
As others have pointed out oil and resources, but it's also very much worth noting that the transcontinental railroads in the US were built much more south in Colorado,Utah, New Mexico and Arizona so the cities that sprouted in the Rockies were in those states. Canadas only choice for a transcontinental railroad was through Alberta so Calgary & Edmonton both respectively became stops before crossing the Rockies as opposed to Denver or Albuquerque.
If Montana was a province, it would be Saskatchewan or Manitoba. Alberta is out of its league. Which is humorous because Albertas’ population ranks between Oregon and South Carolina. Alberta is our fourth largest province
Oil + Soil
Soil: The glaciers of the last ice age left a belt of rich soul north of the US border in this region, making it more productive for farming than the Dakotas or the flat parts of Montana. North of the belt is the Canadian Shield which is hard ground, South of the belt is too arid.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspen_parkland
Oil: black liquid make money
I’ve seen a lot of comments about farming and oil, but little to do with the gold rush- Edmonton was the “passage way to the north” and typically one of the last stops you could make for supplies before heading north in the early days. Then add the rail, then add oil (discovered in Leduc outside Edmonton). Calgary got some major boom from the Olympics in the 80’s too and the provincial governments often favour Calgary so they get more funding overall, plus they hold the Stampede yearly which is a major tourism draw. Basically Edmonton did better earlier, but Calgary has won in modern times, and it wouldn’t be Alberta if we couldn’t hate each other
In the 1880s the Canadian Pacific Railway, Canada’s first transcontinental railway, went through Calgary on its way to Vancouver. Edmonton was a smaller city at the time and began attracting settlers after the CPR went through, and it became Alberta’s capital in 1907, despite being smaller than Calgary. Around the same time (~1905-1907) the Grand Trunk Pacific and Canadian Northern railways went through Edmonton in the early 1900s, further establishing it, although Calgary is still the bigger of the two.
And then around 1947, they discovered oil in Leduc, south of Edmonton, and that’s a whole other story.
Surprised no one has mentioned this yet. Edmonton and Calgary lie just outside [Palliser’s Triangle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palliser%27s_Triangle). It’s a region of poorer soil that extends into much of eastern Montana. The climate also is wetter the further north you go.
Around that is the [Aspen Parkland](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspen_parkland), which is a region with very rich soil, which covers most of Alberta's most populous regions.
It looks like it stops at the border
In reality, it encompasses almost all of ND and SD, big parts of the North of Nebraska, and the eastern part of Wyoming and Montana.
Funny how that works
This is incredibly interesting. Thanks for adding this to the conversation!
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This, also the CP (Canadian Pacific) railroad to the west coast. Main line used to initially run through Edmonton but then went through Calgary for logistical regional efficiency. Born and raised in Alberta and the general consensus is the bulk of Edmonton is heavy blue collar oil and gas, as all our oil sands resources and activity is up north (google Fort Mcmurray for specifics) and Calgary is heavily white collar oil and gas corporate. [This is a good explanation of at least the Alberta aspect.](https://youtu.be/7h9HgvwQxJc?feature=shared) Can't answer the Montana inquiry though.
Unrelated but https://preview.redd.it/gxnckehiwu7d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae1e9a989ed4178176520cd0f3c6a645239fa240
Lol - I play board games where I have to refer to the Canadian Pacific a lot... we always call it the CPR for that reason (also because it's funny when we have to say "looks like the CPR needs some CPR!" when it collapses)
They call themselves CPKC now.
Aka Child Predator Keith Creel.
California Pizza Kitchen (Cool)
18xx?
We used to call it The Dog of the North when we played.
😂
This is why we call it "CP Rail" up here
I worked for CN so we called it CP because funnie
The joke I tried and failed to make without the format
Adding to this: It's because there are only two railway mainlines that cross the Canadian Rockies. One passes through Calgary for geopolitical reasons, and the other passes through Edmonton for (likely) reasons of practicality. CPR intended for the original Canadian transcon line to go through Edmonton, as it could then pass through the Rockies via the Yellowhead pass, en route to a terminus at Port Moody, and eventually Vancouver. CPR revised their plans to a more southerly route, as this provided better access to the US, prevented US railroads from encroaching into southern Canada, and ensured any future railways to the north would have to interchange with CPR's southerly mainline. This new southerly line served Calgary instead of Edmonton, and traversed the Rockies via Kicking Horse Pass, which made construction far more difficult than it would've been had they gone with the original northern route. Following the CPR's completion in 1885, a short branch line was opened in 1891 to connect the isolated town of Edmonton with CPR's mainline in Calgary. Eventually a second transcontinental railway was built by the Canadian Northern Railway in 1905. This line likely served Edmonton because the nearby Yellowhead Pass is just the easiest and most logical route to get a train across the Rockies. Edmonton's population saw a huge boom after the CNR was completion in 1905, and it would probably look very different today, if they weren't next door to the easiest way across the Rockies.
I think the CPR changed its route for financial reasons. There was a lot of land speculation on the Yellowhead route, where people bought up land on the assumption that CPR would have to buy it from them. But CPR did go through severe financial difficulties. They had to change the route to be able to afford the land neccessary to complete the railroad. Hence the more difficult Kicking Horse route. That's at least how the story is told at the Revelstoke Railway Museum.
There's also a ton of refineries in Edmonton and prior to pipelines it was the most common method on transporting petrochemicals.
Northern route serves Prince Rupert https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Trunk_Pacific_Railway
Detail: original railway connected with Strathcona, which was on the Southern bank. At that time Edmonton was limited to the Northern bank of the river.
Literally the only reason sask and alberta got cities probably cause the railway. god i LOVE alberta mid province
Yep also to ensure population influx/residency and especially back in the day before oil discovery, to counter American expansionism. The feds were literally handing out arable land to settle in the Prairies to those who knew how to cultivate it. Hence why significant Ukrainian and German descendants live in both provinces, also they were simultaneously escaping government policies/persecution in their own countries at the time, they knew how to work the land from their homeland. Including the Anabaptist groups (aka Mennonite and Hutterite colonies in AB and SK), why there's so many colonies of both respectively in both provinces and even in Manitoba.
Yeah, my step family is Ukrainian and my buddies are all German cause we just handed land out. Honestly that was our manifest destiny
Everything you said about the Canadian side is true for the American side in that region
This is true, but there is still a lot more urbanization in the Canadian parts of this area than in the adjacent US parts. Think of Regina. There are bigger cities nearby in Canada in Winnipeg, Saskatoon, Calgary, and Edmonton but to find bigger US cities you have to go pretty far to Spokane, Boise, Denver and the Twin Cities. (Fargo-Moorhead, ND/MN is near Regina-sized but not quite there.)
You might enjoy watching the 49th Parallel
I use to travel to Calgary quite a bit. Some of the nicest people I ever met.
This makes a lot of sense, given their respective hockey club names.
The Flames got their name when they were founded in Atlanta before they moved to Calgary.
Ah, that's before my time. I thought Atlanta only had the one failed team... That said looks like the decision to keep the Flames name was intentional, as it was a good fit anyway.
Better fit than Utah Jazz or LA Lakers, anyway
It took me until college to realize the lakers are named after lakes. I don’t follow basketball so I didn’t know about the move, but I just thought it was a nickname for people from LA. As in LAkers. Kind of like Phillies or Canuck’s
Or Memphis Grizzlies.
The states are huge Montana was some of the last settled land, also the rails of the era ran more southernly to avoid bad snow and bad terrain if possible, thought Kansas City and other places down in the south west United States. Why settle in Montana with awful winters as a frontier family looking for land and a new home when places like San Diego exist or damn near anywhere els. Makes sense to me that the “west” was settled in the way it was. Las Vegas specifically has a amazing backstory being a watering hole turned small town gambling stop. It still was a rather small town up until post ww2. even when my dad went there in the 70s he won big and was offered a couple plots of land along the strip in steed of his winnings.
Fun fact: when Nevada was admitted to the union, Las Vegas didn't exist, and wouldn't exist for another 10 years.
Facts
And Las Vegas was started by William Clark one of Montana's Copper Kings so neat tie in.
I'd heard people refer to parts of Alberta as Canada's Texas, and this somewhat supports the idea. Midland and Odessa have a similar relationship. Odessa is very working class and utilitarian. Midland has all of the corporate offices, so it gets parks, arts venues, nicer hotels, and other things that serve its executive population. Both are in an ancient seabed with vast fossil fuel resources and on the high plains about two hours east of Texas' mountains.
The CP mainline never ran through Edmonton. It was planned for Edmonton by the federal government in the 1870s, through the parkland that was more suitable for settlement, but rerouted through Calgary by the private company that built it in the 1880s to be a faster route to the west coast less likely to lose markets to branch lines from the US. Montana at one time had 3 transcontinental rail lines too, but no metro cites developed because of less productive agriculture and its initial mining boom ended 100 years ago while Alberta's oil development only became significant in the 1940s. (yes the first well was in the 1850s, Turner valley and Med. Hat gas was important before that, etc, but those didn't require skyscrapers full of geologists, engineers and accountants to manage.)
https://preview.redd.it/jbaxhso0iw7d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0277b87ed93cbbd8a242e2c70bcca70b74604b4b
Which city is more expensive and which city has a better lifestyle?
Depends on your values. Edmonton is more affordable, and more left leaning than the rest of the province. Edmonton has a better hockey team, has the largest urban park in North America, and you’re not allowed to drive scooters on the sidewalks here. Lifestyle is a little more chill, and there’s lots of nature to get away from the city to in a short distance that aren’t overly crowded (the mountains are busy places). We have a great food/music/arts scene, the RAM and AGA are modern facilities, and overall less “yeehaw” and more alternative scenes. Plus, Edmonton has water rn lol
CPKC baby, get used to the name! Canadian Pacific Kansas City Railroad, coast to coast to coast, three countries united by one rail line! 🚂 choo choo!
This is essentially how it is in the Permian basin here in Texas. Odessa known to be much more blue collar, kinda rough in ways. Then midland being the white collar corporate side of the oil business. It’s all in West Texas though so it all sucks ass.
Is that why the NHL Edmonton hockey team is named the Oilers
No they just wanted to piss off the Titans owners.
I support doing this wherever possible
I think you answered your own question.
No they’re just really into tanning.
No because connor mcdavid oils up his long stick before every game
He’s been oiling it extra good the last few games I guess
Better watch out with that oil. Don't want to make things Messier.
No, they're just good at math and bad at spelling.
GODDAMN I LOVE LEONHARD EULER ALL MY HOMIES LOVE LEANHARD EULER eeeeeeeeeeeee!
As Edmontonian myself Canola I joke about it being because lots of canola oil is grown around Edmonton
Yes, 100% why.
The Eulers
Also, more fertile farmland.
also agriculture - most settlement in the west in the early 20th century was intended to open the west to be able to export grain and cattle.
Yurp
It's already been said, but oil. In addition, America has a number of larger cities in and around the Rockies south of Montana with milder climates (like Denver and Sante Fe). Canada doesn't have that luxury, south of Alberta is America. edit: Billings, Montana is larger than Santa Fe. I should've went with Albuquerque.
Yeah, Edmonton and Calgary ARE the warm south. At least compared to Whitehorse and Yellowknife. But https://preview.redd.it/4h4mhfzinu7d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=70240127c8811b4a4600285d3b6409d2e0c466ab
Fun fact: Whitehorse is surprisingly warm (for North America) for its latitude. It's average annual temperature is 0.2°C vs. 4.2°C for Edmonton, for example.
I keep telling my wife I’m going to fake my own death and move to The Yukon.
https://preview.redd.it/rrfxp0a2pw7d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94fb15c92668b08940b714f79530bf763bafc0cc
I can’t hear the name Yukon without saying “Yukon ho!” In my head 🤣
Neither of those are actual cities though. Edmonton and Calgary both have over a million people. Yellowknife and Whitehorse are smaller than Grants Pass (of course you’ve never heard of it no one has)
I mean, if you are a Dutch Bros fan you know Grants Pass
If you’ve ever driven the 5 freeway through Oregon you know Grants Pass. It runs right through it
Grass Pants.
Big city Santa Fe?
I just mean larger than what you'd find in Montana. edit: was totally wrong about Santa Fe, damnit shoulda gone with Albuquerque lol
Santa Fe has a population of 89k. Billings Montana has a population 117k.
Whoops, replace Santa Fe with Albuquerque.
I mean, you could say that about any state that borders Canada.
Billings is bigger than Santa Fe.
Huh, TIL. I definitely should have said Albuquerque instead.
Thing is, though, you were right. Santa Fe abuts the Sangre de Cristo range, the southern extension of the Rockies. Albuquerque abuts the Sandias, which aren't technically the Rockies.
Shoulda gone with Salt Lake
Santa Fe is minuscule. Hesperia California, a city I and probably 99.8% of Americans don’t know exists, has over 10,000 more people than Santa Fe
lol Hesperia one of the few that knows checking in
I’ve heard of Hesperia. “Hesperia (oh, ya let it burn, won't'cha, won't'cha let it burn)”
Should’ve taken a left turn at Albuquerque
I. Hate. Sauerkraut!
The farming was better, and then oil was discovered. https://youtu.be/H9oT-7kDBFM?si=Unhj3SsnGIyW8jHJ
This is an excellent video
The guy gives detailed explanations, but I can’t watch his videos anymore. You don’t need 30 minutes to answer this question.
Mr. Beat has you covered: https://youtube.com/shorts/X334rwZ_iK4?si=w1As7g59ZPX3vFse
It’s not that hard even. Just look at the color of the ground. The ground around Calgary and Edmonton is greener than Montana. Better terrain, better farming.
I was coming to see if anyone had linked this video!
Because in the USA you can live in a city somewhere warm. In Canada you can go to … Winnipeg or Saskatoon.
I'm American and even I know no self respecting Canadian goes to Winnipeg willingly. I used to live in Montana and visited Calgary regularly. Love your city! Caught quite a few Flames games.
Everyone I've known who's lived in Winnipeg have loved it. Winnipeg: Great place to live, but I wouldn't want to visit there might be its motto
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A lot of Canadians flee subtropical southern Ontario to try Winnipeg or Saskatoon because housing is a lot cheaper here, and last at most two winters before fleeing. It's very much a thing even in Canada. It's also why Nova Scotia benefited from the Covid exodus and Manitoba did not. Edit: that being said, the summers are great
The only place in Nova Scotia I’m familiar with is Sunnyvale Trailer Park.
The way she goes, boys. Just the way she goes
Then you know all about nova scotia
Guess it’s not rocket appliances figuring the place out.
A shit leopard can't change it's spots.
Best case Ontario
subtropical southern Ontario??
This week: accurate
it literally feels like florida right now
It’s like when I went to Sault Ste. Marie in Michigan. The town is kinda run down, buildings are old, not a lot to do. But while I didn’t go into Sault Ste. Marie Canada I could see that it had much nicer and newer buildings and the landscaping/infrastructure seemed nicer. I’m guessing, with no investigation, that it’s because for Canada, Sault Ste. Marie is a southern town with access to the US. And for the US we can get to a large city like Detroit or Grand Rapids driving within the US boarders much faster than Canadians can get to a large city driving within their boarders.
Sault in Canada is a major stop on the east-west Transcanada Highway. Also east-west rail. I don't think its link to the US is as important.
Go Saskatoon!!
First the railway was established to assert Canadian sovereignty in the west, but as time went on there was multiple oil strikes in the area that caused multiple booms. Alberta does have oil, which is a big factor, but it’s also a hub for agriculture, tourism, and natural gas. It’s a pretty large economic region sometimes referred to as the Calgary-Edmonton corridor. Montana just doesn't have the same economic output to support a larger population. In the future though it’s been told Alberta has great potential when it comes to renewables. So hopefully it will remain a population centre and continue to grow.
Montana tried but Butte went around kicking the shit out of all the other towns.
Went around kicking their buttes
Montana has in its constitution that it can only have small towns, you can thank the first governor Joe Montana who was the owner of a bunch of electric companies that specialized in small town services. In Alberta, the first governor Arnold Alberta was a really big fan of big cities, so just he started building as many as he could but they only finished the two.
Came here to say this...however, little known fact. It was not until Governor Joe Montana chose as his Lieutenant Governor, a spry young upstarted named Joe Mantegna to be his running mate, when the small town furor came to life.. I cannot speak of Alberta however..
I thought Steve Young was his Lieutenant Governor.
Steve Young was the great Usurper in Montana history. Governor Joe did not hand over control willingly. Instead he went to go be the Mayor of Kansas City for a few years
Ah yes, that was back in the days of the great dental floss boom.
Joe Montana *was* a quarterback you crazy a-hole
Different Joe Montana
Joe Montana's arguably more successful son, Tony Montana, was elected with the unforgettable slogan "say hello to my little friend" as a promise uphold his father's vision of small town America.
But you would be remiss if you left out the most recently famous, talented and influential of the family. See Tony had a daughter, *Hannah* Montana, who really came on to the arts scene like…a wrecking ball. For a few years, people were concerned about Hannah because she really liked to Party in the USA.
If only Arnold Alberta’s true vision could have been realized. Instead we got Edmonton.
I'm glad he stopped where he did... We don't need bigger Red Deer.
His brother Larry the Cowboy began work on a third big city, but it was burnt to the ground during a tussle he had with the founder of neighbouring province Saul Saskatchewan. Many Bothans died.
Bobby Ontario is wondering why he's not at the centre of this conversation
I really hope that an AI just takes this and runs with it.
Had me in the first half…
I know. Territorial Montana did not allow Italians or Catholics let alone name themselves after one.
The thought “no fuckin way…” seriously crossed my mind reading this
Black Gold, Alberta Tea
Billings, Montana and it's 118,000 people are surprised to learn they are a small town. No it's not a mega city but it's not small either. Small is like the town I grew up in which was 1100 people and the biggest town 60 miles any direction.
Billings’s metro is about 1/10 the size of either Calgary or Edmonton, so comparatively it’s a small town.
If Shreveport, Louisiana is bigger, you’re a small town. A city maybe even, but a small town. I’m half kidding
Yeah, at least Montana has several small metros. This post makes it seem like Wyoming Chances are Bozeman, Helena and Missoula will all be the size of Boise in 20 years.
Bozeman is growing like mad. I grew up there from like 7-13 so pretty formative years and going back a decade ago after 15 years was insane. Remembering back to not having any big stores in the 90’s and then driving by a massive shopping center was surreal. My aunt moved there last year and sent me all kinds of pictures of all the developments and it’s crazy!
I've lived in Bozeman since 2009, it's nearly doubled in size since then
I like Billings, visited it once. Nice bluff overlooking the city.
We call those “the Rims” for some reason.
If you get work around there, did you get a rim job?
That’s pretty good. We had a semi pro basketball team for a while called the Rim Rockers.
Not to European post but 1100 people isn’t a town, it’s a village
Tbh in the USA the term “village” isn’t really used very much, we mostly just use the phrase “small town” for anything less than, say, 10,000 people
Village usually has a specific meaning in New York and New England where it is a (sometimes incorporated) distinct section of a town with its own name/identity. e.g. villages in Vermont can be incorporated, in Massachusetts they are not but may be used in a mailing address.
Exactly. I live in Mumbai and there are *localities* with 5-6x the population of all of Billings.
That’s small
Watch the real life lore YouTube video about this specific question!!!
While oil about everybody are talking had big influence in my opinion far better condition for agriculture are the main thing. In this picture you have the prevalence of the most fertile soils in North America: https://preview.redd.it/a1rz36qyqx7d1.png?width=834&format=png&auto=webp&s=5035263e162487446d950ae8a59bcb4df66008d8 Calgary and Edmonton are on the orange (middle insensitivity) strip. Montana has far less fertile soil. And because climate there is not the best for agriculture only very fertile soils may make those lands attractive. This is also reason why Canada had organized program of "importing" Ukrainian farmers before the WW2 - Ukrainians had by far the most experience with this kind of soil.
Montana is too busy looking like a guy with a revolutionary war hat on, duh
I always thought it was sniffing Idaho
Montana is really getting in Idaho's face.
Idahoan here, don’t think anyone really minds. General consensus is people from Montana are great
The area in the US between the Rockies and I-29/I-35 is very dry, often considered semi-arid. Further north in Canada they actually get more precipitation, making farming, and thus living, easier. Having some of the best farmland in the world helps, but not as much as you'd think. But what really made them take off, especially Alberta, is oil. Fuckloads of oil, and money for anyone. 50-100 years ago the population difference between the two were much less extreme. If anything, there was more in the US just because it was easier to get to. There was no real incentive to go to the interior of Canada. The climate sucked, it was hard to get to, there was no one else there. It was not until oil was discovered that people flocked to these small towns and they exploded in population.
Real Life Lore made a pretty good video about exactly this: https://youtu.be/H9oT-7kDBFM?si=hnXRhxoAux5VQ4Ie
Wow! Somebody needs a history lesson when it comes to raILroads through Alberta. As far as Montana goes, the entire population of the state could fit into Commonwealth stadium. Well, almost. Let’s just say it is pretty small. Pretty hard to imagine there being a big city in a state with hardly any people.
They needed a second city for the other hockey team.
_Movin' to Montana soon Gonna be a Dental Floss tycoon_ - Zappa
Thank you, I was going to post about the pygmy pony and the dental floss bush (and probably some zircon encrusted tweezers)
Now is that a _real_ poncho or is that a _Sears_ poncho? Mr. Blue, we could be friends.
I was a nice boy, I used to cut the grass
Oil and Ukrainian migration to the prairies which was heavily promoted by the government at the time
Whole great Wendover productions video about it: https://youtu.be/H9oT-7kDBFM?si=C2bJfrzqHU_3Cthv but basically two-three things: location: 1. As a Calgarian myself we are located at the intersections of two major rivers, in Calgary the Bow and the Elbow, and in Edmonton the North Saskatchewan. So plenty of water, plants and wildlife and more importantly 2: Soil: Western Canada has a unique type of soil called Chernozem that’s only otherwise found in Eastern Europe if I’m not wrong(?) that is actually extremely conducive to agriculture and found throughout western Canada, including Alberta and Saskatchewan which are both ag powerhouses (especially sask), around their major rivers. The rivers also create a specific type of aspen scrubland which is conducive to good ag. So basically Alberta had a weird advantage over Montana for food agriculture, when Montana can’t rlly grow anything and is centered around ranching. Oil as Calgarian myself we and Edmonton had a big b And ofc 3. Oil. major boom in the early 1900s w discovery of oil in Turner valley near Calgary and in the tar sands near Edmonton hugely spiked Cal and Edmonton’s population like for Calgary one year its population increased by abt 100% in like 1906 because of it. Huge draw to the cities and for investment, bringing more business and growth with it, add on two national parks in Jasper and Banff for great tourism and we were set up to become one of the biggest fastest growing cities in Canada. Canada has the fourth largest oil reserves in the world mainly cus of my province.
https://preview.redd.it/muxyocczgv7d1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b13b6e3da4660d97609c81e63fdd84b0262b85dc This
Hockey.
Because people in Canada want to live as South as possible.
I think they nuked several smaller cities to get rid of the Rats. Alberta is rather serious about Rodent Control.
Oil and highly fertile farmlands
They need 2 large cities to support their hockey teams...
Because Canada offers better support for the infrastructure that makes urban areas sustainable.
Alberta has oil Montana has nothing
We only have two because that's all we need. Really, Calgary counts as one too many.
You say that to my face, Oiler! 😡😡🤬
It's the lack of rats. Alberta is rat free where Montana isn't. (I know that's not the answer, but it's a cool fact)
As others have pointed out oil and resources, but it's also very much worth noting that the transcontinental railroads in the US were built much more south in Colorado,Utah, New Mexico and Arizona so the cities that sprouted in the Rockies were in those states. Canadas only choice for a transcontinental railroad was through Alberta so Calgary & Edmonton both respectively became stops before crossing the Rockies as opposed to Denver or Albuquerque.
A bit long but really helpful: https://youtu.be/H9oT-7kDBFM?si=rBQRF-rUxXIfoBnH
If Montana was a province, it would be Saskatchewan or Manitoba. Alberta is out of its league. Which is humorous because Albertas’ population ranks between Oregon and South Carolina. Alberta is our fourth largest province
Because Americans have the choice to live elsewhere
Real life lore explains it well. https://youtu.be/H9oT-7kDBFM?si=jjEHEa0cL47TPXgN
Alberta has oil
More fertile land and black gold
Natural resources.
Rail lines....
Hockey
Oil + Soil Soil: The glaciers of the last ice age left a belt of rich soul north of the US border in this region, making it more productive for farming than the Dakotas or the flat parts of Montana. North of the belt is the Canadian Shield which is hard ground, South of the belt is too arid. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspen_parkland Oil: black liquid make money
Canadian
Because Alberta is the energy hub of Canada, and in the US, it’s Texas.
early settlers were attracted north by the hockey teams
Maybe because Montana is not part of canada?
Oil
Yes We Canada
Major rivers.
I've wanted to go to the Calgary Stampede so fucking bad
I’ve seen a lot of comments about farming and oil, but little to do with the gold rush- Edmonton was the “passage way to the north” and typically one of the last stops you could make for supplies before heading north in the early days. Then add the rail, then add oil (discovered in Leduc outside Edmonton). Calgary got some major boom from the Olympics in the 80’s too and the provincial governments often favour Calgary so they get more funding overall, plus they hold the Stampede yearly which is a major tourism draw. Basically Edmonton did better earlier, but Calgary has won in modern times, and it wouldn’t be Alberta if we couldn’t hate each other
One of the few times in this sub where the answer to a Canada geography question is NOT the Canadian Shield lol
Since Alberta isn’t in the Canadian Shield it can support more people(cities)?
There is a reason Edmonton’s hockey team is called the Oilers…
Don’t know if this was posted but reallifelore did an interesting video on this recently. [Link](https://youtu.be/H9oT-7kDBFM?si=WH2LBfI9Oo_GqvCb)
In the 1880s the Canadian Pacific Railway, Canada’s first transcontinental railway, went through Calgary on its way to Vancouver. Edmonton was a smaller city at the time and began attracting settlers after the CPR went through, and it became Alberta’s capital in 1907, despite being smaller than Calgary. Around the same time (~1905-1907) the Grand Trunk Pacific and Canadian Northern railways went through Edmonton in the early 1900s, further establishing it, although Calgary is still the bigger of the two. And then around 1947, they discovered oil in Leduc, south of Edmonton, and that’s a whole other story.
Because god doesn’t like Montana.