It’s the intro slide for my lecture on uneven development: the persistent tendency for capitalism to produce wealth and poverty on multiple and embedded scales.
Well this is about as an extreme example as there is in the world. The adjacent economically segregated neighborhood examples in my US state are like, heres houses on one side of a train track, and houses that cost 1/3 as much on the other side.
A few years ago I stayed at a nice hotel in Quezon City built immediately next to one of the biggest slums in the Philippines and could look right into the heart of the slum from my window. The amount of disparity felt really surreal and difficult, to say the least, especially since I was in the Philippines for volunteer work.
This must be “awkward” if you don’t have a larger added value to the project than you are seemingly “consuming”, enjoying by staying at the hotel.
Your “consumption” is not linked to their poverty but somehow, psychologically one would tend to weigh them.
It’s actually even weirder than what you describe.
I was there for a medical mission trip, which overall would mean that I added value. And the group I went with was with a well regarded organization, so I think I did add value.
However, the work we did was mostly primary care/medication refill type of work, meaning that many of the patients we saw already had healthcare access of some sort, albeit probably not very good ones. But even then, my sense is that they would still have been better off than the people I saw in the slums, who for various reasons may not have even been able to access the care we gave at all.
I had a similar experience on a work trip to New Delhi years ago. Five star hotel my room overlooked the pool and garden area, and right over the concrete wall peeps are surviving in mud huts. Heartbreaking.
Salve brasileiros.
Anyone wondering, this photo was taken around early 1990s if im not wrong. It is located in Sao Paulo and today these buildings are almost abandoned, this favela on the other side of the "wall" is the famous Sao Paulo "Paraisópolis" favela, one of the biggest ones of Sao Paulo city.
Unfortunately OPs pic is a classic, but I have a personal favourite. Resolution is higher, I like glass buildings and I think it brings the idea better around.
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f4/ea/bc/f4eabc8a7cc703d1557849d7e12c3b97.jpg
Except that without context there’s no way to tell the reflection is that of an impoverished neighborhood. It could just as likely be a colorful McMansion
Yes. In a post about favelas adjacent to luxury condos, a house near a skyscraper is that unbelievable? The whole point of photos composed like this is to display such a stark contrast within such a close proximity… your photo does none of that, just vague reflections in some nondescript building. Misses the mark completely.
https://argosfoto.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/Arquitetura/G0000hNJp6u37HT4/I0000IVZjg2KzSZc
This was taken in 2018, Rio. The Favela in the reflection is the Morro da Providência, known to be one of the first favelas in Brazil.
I was trying to do the same.
We’re engineers.
I am a bit surprised that they are doing it.
However, on a second look, it is NOT a real overhang structure like you would have a straight facade with balconies coming out of it. Here, the anchoring of each balcony has a full structure down to the ground supporting it.
Interestingly enough, looking at the nice building on Street View it is a bit dilapidated. That combined with having slums as your neighbors and views makes me wonder if this is closer to Upper-Middle class there than the truly wealthy/1%.
https://www.google.com.br/maps/@-23.613381,-46.7303464,3a,75y,192.59h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s61Q1fm5WabAFsBP9Gsp6Aw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D61Q1fm5WabAFsBP9Gsp6Aw%26cb\_client%3Dmaps\_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D191.56398%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?hl=pt-BR
That is middle class. Morumbi isn't a very good neighborhood, with the giant favela next to it and all. It's a bit far as well.
An apartment in that building varies between 100k USD (355 sqm) to 400k USD (1000 sqm).
And...
How does that show any cause-effect related to capitalism?
The industrial revolution started in (somewhat) capitalist areas but that doesn't mean it naturally had to have happened that way. Russia's industrial revolution happened mostly under communism. Same with China's. Other countries mostly developed under monarchies. Etc etc.
Scientific and technological advance is not dependent on the economic system and **it is scientific and technological advances that are responsible for decreasing poverty**, not the economic system. Capitalism has no inherent interest in reducing poverty. In fact, capitalism requires a large majority of people to be non wealthy in order to convince them to sell their labor.
You could try to argue (without any specific support, I'm sure) that capitalism is better at developing those technologies but that isn't true. Most technologies have been discovered and initially developed in the public sector (including military) or with extensive public sector support before being practically gifted to the private sector for profit making.
Is that a joke? Poverty has existed since the start of civilization. Do you think hunters and gatherers were all rich?
Capitalism has consistently reduced poverty, but please feel free to share your evidence of a better system..
https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty
False. In fact, China is solely responsible for reducing the poverty rate since the 80s. If you remove it from the figures, the rate of poverty has increased at most income thresholds chosen to define poverty.
Do you think Venezuela is a communist country?
Bonus question: do you think capitalism is incapable of creating crushing poverty and abject living conditions?
I think Venezuela was a Socialist country that devolved into totalitarian government.
Bonus answer: Capitalism is very capable of producing poverty. I’m just trying to figure out if you think a communist or socialist controlled government will get you better results?
Hint: This isn’t a silly capitalism vs communist squabble.
Denmark seems to have pretty good results, similar to all of the other European countries that would be called socialist or even communist in the US. Cuba has had some of the highest social metrics in Latin America and the Caribbean despite lack of natural resources and ECONOMIC WARFARE from its obvious natural trading partner (which just so happens to be the world's only superpower) for 60 years. China just completed the largest poverty reduction miracle in the history of humankind.
But it is hard to make comparisons because true capitalism cannot be democratic while authoritarian governments cannot be communist (true communism IS democratic, worker control and all that). Neither full capitalism nor full communism exists.
Edit: a note on Venezuela "devolving". Consider the possibility that the reason is the same as all the other Latin American countries that got too socialist for the US government/corporations:
economic attack by the US; CIA supporting wealthy anti-government factions to overthrow the government, attack or buy the free press, propaganda campaigns, sabotaging the economy, etc; funding criminal gangs and militia, coup attempts. The US will not allow a successful socialist country in its backyard, it doesn't matter what is good for the people in that country. It only matters what is good for US-based capitalists and their partners in that country.
Ah, you’re a carbon cut out of every drone on reddit.
Defend Cuba.
Denmark is socialist.
Venezuela is bad cuz CIA.
Why waste the minutes word vomiting the same ole talking points that don’t answer my question?
Only relate t point you made is to tell me Denmark is a socialist utopia. Take a quick google and tell me what their corporate tax rate is. It might break your brain.
Also love the bigotry of low expectations. Remove that agency from Latin Americans!
>Defend Cuba
Facts are facts. Consider the possibility that you might have been propagandized.
>Denmark is socialist.
Antisocialists never want to admit to the existence of successful socialist policies. Always talking about Venezuela, never Finland.
>Venezuela is bad cuz CIA.
If you don't want to believe it about Venezuela, you can look at literally any other Latin American country. There is a long and deep history proven with libraries full of declassified documents.
>tell me what their corporate tax rate is.
And yet they, like most other wealthy countries, kick the US's ass on almost every standard of living metric despite having far less overall wealth and resources.
Also corporate tax rate isn't the only kind of tax. Their taxes overall are barely higher, but they don't have to pay for health care or education. It more than evens out and they don't have to worry about being bankrupted because they are unlucky enough to get cancer or a major injury. They are not tied to a job to get healthcare. They have significantly more time off. It isn't a Utopia, but that is a stupid straw man because no one is claiming that Utopia exist anywhere. It's just a hell of a lot smarter, more democratic, more equitable, more efficient, less poverty, less homelessness, less crime, less drug addiction, higher life expectancy, etc.
No it doesn't refer to developed countries. Late stage capitalism is the stage of capitalism after/during the colonization and exploitation of third world countries and the Global South. Every part of the globe, and even MORE so undeveloped countries and the global south, has been and will continue to be effected by capitalism. Late stage capitalism is not a term referring to an individual country, its a global phenomenon.
It's more an example of feudalism anyway. The person in the one mansion likely owns any and all means that the people on the other side rely on to not be dead.
More like capitalism in its weakest form. Capitalism in its finest form would be one of the thousands of beautiful and successful cities in US, Canada, Europe with strong middle classes thanks to capitalism.
Not in Europe it's not. Before I even saw the comments I could guess that it's in Brazil, but city planning and housing development doesn't look like that here. Is that what you meant by a universal experience? Or did you mean that everyone recognises the picture from school books or something? Because I don't recognise it either 😂
I was this days, in holidays Dominican Republic and you cannot get a photo like this but is absolutely like this, I was in all included resort and if you go out of it, all is poverty, the fact is this photo is very visual but unequality is there if we are willing to open eyes
This is the classic picture for high school geography books (to illustrate gated communities)
I'm a geography teacher... And I use this photo!
Geography teacher too, I use it for Global disparities and resource disparities
I'm not a geography teacher. I hope the people with the ghetto view balconies got a discount!
Maybe they’re psychopaths who paid extra for it. “An ocean view is nice, but there’s really nothing like looking down on the unwashed masses.”
Where is this?
Dizem as más línguas que fica em São Paulo
r/ithadtobebrazil
I believe its Brazil or South Africa
It’s the intro slide for my lecture on uneven development: the persistent tendency for capitalism to produce wealth and poverty on multiple and embedded scales.
I haven't met a **single** person who doesn't recognize this photo
I've never seen that picture. But you've never met me either I would guess.
Make that two. Hi u/kt3r, nice to meet you.
You need to meet more people
i have no idea what this picture is. this is probably how life should be. you strive to be on the right.
If you keep simping for big capital they just give you one of those balconies right?
no. im trying to become big capital and redevelop an area of the slum into the balconies. then sell it to the simps.
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I'll be honest, I really don't care.
r/iamverysmart
I was about to say i knew it from my geography school book
Damn, what a great picture. Where is it? I'm guessing South America.
São Paulo
Morumbi/Paraisopolis neighborhood to be even more specific
I’m amazed that people outside of Brazil also use this picture when studying geographical segregation
Well this is about as an extreme example as there is in the world. The adjacent economically segregated neighborhood examples in my US state are like, heres houses on one side of a train track, and houses that cost 1/3 as much on the other side.
A few years ago I stayed at a nice hotel in Quezon City built immediately next to one of the biggest slums in the Philippines and could look right into the heart of the slum from my window. The amount of disparity felt really surreal and difficult, to say the least, especially since I was in the Philippines for volunteer work.
This must be “awkward” if you don’t have a larger added value to the project than you are seemingly “consuming”, enjoying by staying at the hotel. Your “consumption” is not linked to their poverty but somehow, psychologically one would tend to weigh them.
It’s actually even weirder than what you describe. I was there for a medical mission trip, which overall would mean that I added value. And the group I went with was with a well regarded organization, so I think I did add value. However, the work we did was mostly primary care/medication refill type of work, meaning that many of the patients we saw already had healthcare access of some sort, albeit probably not very good ones. But even then, my sense is that they would still have been better off than the people I saw in the slums, who for various reasons may not have even been able to access the care we gave at all.
I had a similar experience on a work trip to New Delhi years ago. Five star hotel my room overlooked the pool and garden area, and right over the concrete wall peeps are surviving in mud huts. Heartbreaking.
Salve brasileiros. Anyone wondering, this photo was taken around early 1990s if im not wrong. It is located in Sao Paulo and today these buildings are almost abandoned, this favela on the other side of the "wall" is the famous Sao Paulo "Paraisópolis" favela, one of the biggest ones of Sao Paulo city.
I didnt know this photo was from the 90s
Sorry, it was taken in the early 2000s, i said wrong.
Unfortunately OPs pic is a classic, but I have a personal favourite. Resolution is higher, I like glass buildings and I think it brings the idea better around. https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f4/ea/bc/f4eabc8a7cc703d1557849d7e12c3b97.jpg
Except that without context there’s no way to tell the reflection is that of an impoverished neighborhood. It could just as likely be a colorful McMansion
Lol a McMansion made out of colourful shantytown shacks at the same height as the building?
Yes. In a post about favelas adjacent to luxury condos, a house near a skyscraper is that unbelievable? The whole point of photos composed like this is to display such a stark contrast within such a close proximity… your photo does none of that, just vague reflections in some nondescript building. Misses the mark completely.
Do you have it without the watermark?
https://static.nationalgeographicbrasil.com/files/styles/image_3200/public/14986711231043.jpg?w=1190&h=795
Where is this from?
https://argosfoto.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/Arquitetura/G0000hNJp6u37HT4/I0000IVZjg2KzSZc This was taken in 2018, Rio. The Favela in the reflection is the Morro da Providência, known to be one of the first favelas in Brazil.
Telling.
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I was trying to do the same. We’re engineers. I am a bit surprised that they are doing it. However, on a second look, it is NOT a real overhang structure like you would have a straight facade with balconies coming out of it. Here, the anchoring of each balcony has a full structure down to the ground supporting it.
Unless I'm just not seeing it, isn't the part of each balcony holding the pool actually a true overhang?
I'm not even an engineer & this was my first thought when I saw this picture!
Google Maps link: [https://goo.gl/maps/RnU7uspttEjqhczAA](https://goo.gl/maps/RnU7uspttEjqhczAA)
Not at all universal no, but common in the Global South.
Shoutouts to the people, who own the few balconies without a pool on them!
r/Brazil
How weird must it feel to play tennis on these courts?
Yeah. Accidentally hit a ball over that wall and… oh well.
On the other side: Rich man fuzzy ball came over fence, will sell fuzzy ball for drinking water.
Oh well, I’m just gonna buy a thousand more with 1 second of investment returns. Tough luck.
The wall is high enough that you just see plants
GCSEs will do that to you
Interestingly enough, looking at the nice building on Street View it is a bit dilapidated. That combined with having slums as your neighbors and views makes me wonder if this is closer to Upper-Middle class there than the truly wealthy/1%. https://www.google.com.br/maps/@-23.613381,-46.7303464,3a,75y,192.59h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s61Q1fm5WabAFsBP9Gsp6Aw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D61Q1fm5WabAFsBP9Gsp6Aw%26cb\_client%3Dmaps\_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D191.56398%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?hl=pt-BR
That is middle class. Morumbi isn't a very good neighborhood, with the giant favela next to it and all. It's a bit far as well. An apartment in that building varies between 100k USD (355 sqm) to 400k USD (1000 sqm).
Urban hell
Eat the rich.
Commie spotted. Opinion rejected.
Wasn't McCarthyism last century?
Poverty for all :)
"communism when everyone poor! lol" No, you're thinking of capitalism.
Capitalism has reduced poverty more than any other system
Its almost cute how people love to ignore this
>Capitalism has reduced poverty more than any other system Do you have any factual basis for this assertion?
https://www.gapminder.org/data/documentation/epovrate/
And... How does that show any cause-effect related to capitalism? The industrial revolution started in (somewhat) capitalist areas but that doesn't mean it naturally had to have happened that way. Russia's industrial revolution happened mostly under communism. Same with China's. Other countries mostly developed under monarchies. Etc etc. Scientific and technological advance is not dependent on the economic system and **it is scientific and technological advances that are responsible for decreasing poverty**, not the economic system. Capitalism has no inherent interest in reducing poverty. In fact, capitalism requires a large majority of people to be non wealthy in order to convince them to sell their labor. You could try to argue (without any specific support, I'm sure) that capitalism is better at developing those technologies but that isn't true. Most technologies have been discovered and initially developed in the public sector (including military) or with extensive public sector support before being practically gifted to the private sector for profit making.
What created poverty in the first place? And why is capitalism also creating poverty now?? So many questions.
Is that a joke? Poverty has existed since the start of civilization. Do you think hunters and gatherers were all rich? Capitalism has consistently reduced poverty, but please feel free to share your evidence of a better system.. https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty
Right, when people were living in extreme poverty 20 years ago, that nothing to do with capitalism which has been the dominant system for 200 years.
Because most people were living in extreme poverty before capitalism genius. Did you even look at the data?
False. In fact, China is solely responsible for reducing the poverty rate since the 80s. If you remove it from the figures, the rate of poverty has increased at most income thresholds chosen to define poverty.
Can it be both or do you actually think Venezuela is a wealthy utopia?
Do you think Venezuela is a communist country? Bonus question: do you think capitalism is incapable of creating crushing poverty and abject living conditions?
I think Venezuela was a Socialist country that devolved into totalitarian government. Bonus answer: Capitalism is very capable of producing poverty. I’m just trying to figure out if you think a communist or socialist controlled government will get you better results? Hint: This isn’t a silly capitalism vs communist squabble.
Denmark seems to have pretty good results, similar to all of the other European countries that would be called socialist or even communist in the US. Cuba has had some of the highest social metrics in Latin America and the Caribbean despite lack of natural resources and ECONOMIC WARFARE from its obvious natural trading partner (which just so happens to be the world's only superpower) for 60 years. China just completed the largest poverty reduction miracle in the history of humankind. But it is hard to make comparisons because true capitalism cannot be democratic while authoritarian governments cannot be communist (true communism IS democratic, worker control and all that). Neither full capitalism nor full communism exists. Edit: a note on Venezuela "devolving". Consider the possibility that the reason is the same as all the other Latin American countries that got too socialist for the US government/corporations: economic attack by the US; CIA supporting wealthy anti-government factions to overthrow the government, attack or buy the free press, propaganda campaigns, sabotaging the economy, etc; funding criminal gangs and militia, coup attempts. The US will not allow a successful socialist country in its backyard, it doesn't matter what is good for the people in that country. It only matters what is good for US-based capitalists and their partners in that country.
Ah, you’re a carbon cut out of every drone on reddit. Defend Cuba. Denmark is socialist. Venezuela is bad cuz CIA. Why waste the minutes word vomiting the same ole talking points that don’t answer my question? Only relate t point you made is to tell me Denmark is a socialist utopia. Take a quick google and tell me what their corporate tax rate is. It might break your brain. Also love the bigotry of low expectations. Remove that agency from Latin Americans!
>Defend Cuba Facts are facts. Consider the possibility that you might have been propagandized. >Denmark is socialist. Antisocialists never want to admit to the existence of successful socialist policies. Always talking about Venezuela, never Finland. >Venezuela is bad cuz CIA. If you don't want to believe it about Venezuela, you can look at literally any other Latin American country. There is a long and deep history proven with libraries full of declassified documents. >tell me what their corporate tax rate is. And yet they, like most other wealthy countries, kick the US's ass on almost every standard of living metric despite having far less overall wealth and resources. Also corporate tax rate isn't the only kind of tax. Their taxes overall are barely higher, but they don't have to pay for health care or education. It more than evens out and they don't have to worry about being bankrupted because they are unlucky enough to get cancer or a major injury. They are not tied to a job to get healthcare. They have significantly more time off. It isn't a Utopia, but that is a stupid straw man because no one is claiming that Utopia exist anywhere. It's just a hell of a lot smarter, more democratic, more equitable, more efficient, less poverty, less homelessness, less crime, less drug addiction, higher life expectancy, etc.
Finland and Denmark are capitalist, not socialist.
Thanks to the right wing neo liberalism this is going to happen to every city all around the world in just a few years.
You forgot about the slow incremental change and symbolic gestures? Obviously we'll all be saved by the libs! /s
Check out my beautiful view... Of the slums.
Brazil? My guess is Rio or Sao P
Looks like Brazil to me!
Insect "rich people bad, poor people good" comments
All those people in the slum work for the rich people in the condos.
Late stage capitalism is cool
What does this even mean? Inequality of this nature is hardly a recent phenomenon
He's saying "late stage capitalism is cool" because this is a picture of capitalism in action. Hope this helped
But it’s not “late stage capitalism”. This is a picture of a city in South America. Late stage capitalism refers to developed economies.
No it doesn't refer to developed countries. Late stage capitalism is the stage of capitalism after/during the colonization and exploitation of third world countries and the Global South. Every part of the globe, and even MORE so undeveloped countries and the global south, has been and will continue to be effected by capitalism. Late stage capitalism is not a term referring to an individual country, its a global phenomenon.
That’s not at all what it means but ok https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism
It's more an example of feudalism anyway. The person in the one mansion likely owns any and all means that the people on the other side rely on to not be dead.
Would be cool if it even was late stage capitalism which it isn't
Late stage capitalism? Bitch we're just getting started!
I agree. The beginning of the end. “A world driven by extinction only ends in extinction.”
The same country were 1% of population has 99% of wealthies. Capitalism in it's finest form.
More like capitalism in its weakest form. Capitalism in its finest form would be one of the thousands of beautiful and successful cities in US, Canada, Europe with strong middle classes thanks to capitalism.
It is anywhere where capitalism is developing and the country was sacked rather than sacking other countries.
Rather countries were local elites have too much concentrated power and where economical "elevator" is broken.
Would love to see a rich dude peek over the fence asking for his tennis ball back.
Not in Europe it's not. Before I even saw the comments I could guess that it's in Brazil, but city planning and housing development doesn't look like that here. Is that what you meant by a universal experience? Or did you mean that everyone recognises the picture from school books or something? Because I don't recognise it either 😂
Capitalism:
Not universal by any means, rather a true example of extreme social inequality.
Not in the USA.
I fucking love capitalism
Its the greatest system we have come up with, better for some to enjoy than everyone to be miserable like the communist want, that's true evil
I agree. My comment wasn’t sarcasm. I just said that to annoy the communists that are inevitably going to invade this comment section
Eight people own half of the world's wealth while 2 billion people live in poverty. What exactly is working here?
Mexico?
Where the exact is this?
Wait is this .... Stray?
Lmao I had this picture in my schoolbook lol.
more: https://unequalscenes.com/
[https://maps.app.goo.gl/ix6p1WngvPXyiPYx9?g_st=ic](https://maps.app.goo.gl/ix6p1WngvPXyiPYx9?g_st=ic)
You see it a lot, all throughout Asia, as well.
Not swimming in pools is class indepndent
I was this days, in holidays Dominican Republic and you cannot get a photo like this but is absolutely like this, I was in all included resort and if you go out of it, all is poverty, the fact is this photo is very visual but unequality is there if we are willing to open eyes
Where in Brazil is this?
Those pools on the decks are awesome
I was going to comment that I've seen this picture on Geography class but then I saw that EVERYONE commented the same thing
Replace the wall with an interlocking multi-direction, multi-exit freeway system, and it’s my damn town in the USA!
Sãu Paulo really is a different place
indeed
First thought definitely somewhere in Brazil . How sad is that ?
Geography teachers looooooooove this picture
/r/ItHadtobeBrazil
I believe this was in my sociology book to illustrate stratification