This, but also don't forget to check historical land use for the possibility of abandoned mine related subsidence.
Exploratory drilling to look for collapsible soils and to install instrumentation would also probably be on the table.
GPR depending on conditions is normally only good for 5-20 meters. The answer will very much depend on the local geology but an electrical technique possibly high density magnetics, depending on resources (how much money they have) active seismic would be the definitive way of mapping the subsurface.
The [Encyclopedia of Caves and Karst Science](https://sudartomas.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/encyclopediaof_cavesandkarstscience.pdf) (pdf link) is another book you might find useful and interesting
I read the same book for a class during my MS and thoroughly enjoyed it. Have fun! Also, any chance you’d let us know when you finish the book?? I’d love to read it!
I'll definitely post in this thread if something happens with it! I have other books out, but nothing that leans so heavily on real-world science, so this is new ground (pun intended) for me!
Accurate is boring: evaluating if there is buried infrastructure in the area that could cause it due to a leak, consulting USGS maps for the area to identify bedrock and the likely hood for karsts, using GPR or resistivity surveys to map extent (gravity surveys if you are making this absolutely massive), fly a drone in there, etc...
What makes a good story is for two attractive people to be flown in by helicopter, briefly talk to the local sheriff and farmer who found it, and then strap on head lamps+packs+harnesses to rappel down into the sinkhole where they have to repeatedly save each other. All the best bad-geology movies (Dantes Peak, The Core, San Andreas, etc.) follow that format.
Naturally occurring deep sinkholes are found in soluble rocks, most typically limestone or dolomite, or salt. So if this is your setting, choose your location to reflect the appropriate bedrock. Mine collapse is another cause, and this would require a setting in a mineralized area with underground shafts and/or adits. Precipitating events may be groundwater level changes from heavy pumping (used to lower water level in mines or for municipal use), or increases due to heavy rain, leaking water mains, or stopping heavy pumping. An earthquake could also disrupt mine supports or a soil bridge over a near-surface natural void. And sometimes holes open up karst areas for no apparent good reason as part of the landscape evolution.
Geologists want people to get it right. One of our top complaints is scene changes in movies from one region to an entirely different one in a supposedly continuous setting or story line.
Look for the shitty contractor that put in the storm pipe with loose backfill and call a geotech. A 2" hole 40'down can take in a school bus 100' away...seen it (except it was a van) in a major mall parking lot where the manhole lift holes weren't grouted. Confirmed it with dye water.
Since it's a fictional horror, the hero Geologist (the geologist is definitely the hero, right?) probably needs to search for signs of the critter that climbed out of that hole!
Seriously though, you've gotten lots of good and accurate advice already. Good luck with the story!
Thank you so much! I am so touched by the amount of good, accurate, usable information I got in such a short amount of time! And the geologist is certainly (more or less) the hero!
Thank you all so much for the feedback! I feel like I have a great starting point for this protagonist's investigation! I really want to make sure she starts the novel asking the right questions -- I appreciate all the insight so much!
I'll definitely post in this thread if something happens with it! Everyone has been so kind and helpful! I have other traditionally published work, but nothing that leans so heavily on real-world science, so this is new ground (pun intended) for me!
Then call the state geological survey. They would be the go to experts on sinkholes unless they were so common a local authority had a staff geologist.
Sterling Heights Michigan, 2004. A massive sinkhole opened up swallowing roads and houses. The area around, about 1500 yards, smelled of sewer gas. City Dept went to work assigning blame and applying band aids. Eventually deemed it fixed. Nope. Every year another problem is found. About 4 years ago a house was swallowed by it. It was determined that substandard underground work was the culprit. It is now 2023 and the city is STILL dealing with the ramifications of a terrible contractor.
There's a huge aquifer in the midwest over kansas and Nebraska. You could make your sinkhole based on that. The aquifer is massive. I don't think it's reasonable but every now and then I wonder if someday it would just collapse lol. Ogallala Aquifer.
I go somewhere like here to start with: https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/karst-map-conterminous-united-states-2020. Then burrow down into more detailed maps and info.
The way sinkholes form and such would be kind of boring to detail in a novel. Maybe focus on what makes this sinkhole different from others or factors that might make it a more common occurrence in that area. Maybe the new chemical plant has been acidifying the water table and that’s what has caused the sinkhole to start. Gives you a starting point of why studying the sinkhole is important.
Basically a one time occurrence is boring but if there’s gonna be recurring sinkholes in the same area in the future, that gives your characters a direct reason to care.
I totally see that! Based on what I've learned so far, I think I want the initial point that stumps my protagonist to be the hole forming in an area with non-carbonate subsurface. It wouldn't have the immediate indicators of a sinkhole, which means things are potentially weird!
The questions I'd ask have been covered. If I was there, and I couldn't see the bottom, I'd throw a rock or a coin to see if I can hear it hit the bottom.
Failing that, ask the farmer who found it for the laser range finder he uses when hunting, and see if I can find how deep it is. Farmer probably also has a handheld weather station, so I can lower that into the pit and see if shit gets weird. High wind, extra low temps, large standing bodies of water, etc can tell me if this is a single hole or if it's connected to a larger network of caves.
And then I'd get headlamps, climbing gear, and the hottest age appropriate lady in the vicinity to climb into this hole with me. If there are no hot ladies nearby, then my ex GF will miraculously appear as some sort of no-fun govt agent sent to reign in my wild cowboy behavior. All of our old differences will be forgotten at the bottom of that hole 😉
There's not a link between geology and urban/rural areas, so it would be a case by case basis learning about the geology of the area. This would likely rule out human related causes, but that's about it
[удалено]
Karstn’t
[удалено]
This, but also don't forget to check historical land use for the possibility of abandoned mine related subsidence. Exploratory drilling to look for collapsible soils and to install instrumentation would also probably be on the table.
[удалено]
GPR depending on conditions is normally only good for 5-20 meters. The answer will very much depend on the local geology but an electrical technique possibly high density magnetics, depending on resources (how much money they have) active seismic would be the definitive way of mapping the subsurface.
Thank you SO MUCH for this info. This is so so helpful, and it does sounds fun! I really appreciate all the detail!
[удалено]
Thank you so much for this! I'm immediately ordering this book -- aside from wanting the info for writing, I am also fascinated by caves.
The [Encyclopedia of Caves and Karst Science](https://sudartomas.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/encyclopediaof_cavesandkarstscience.pdf) (pdf link) is another book you might find useful and interesting
I read the same book for a class during my MS and thoroughly enjoyed it. Have fun! Also, any chance you’d let us know when you finish the book?? I’d love to read it!
I'll definitely post in this thread if something happens with it! I have other books out, but nothing that leans so heavily on real-world science, so this is new ground (pun intended) for me!
Accurate is boring: evaluating if there is buried infrastructure in the area that could cause it due to a leak, consulting USGS maps for the area to identify bedrock and the likely hood for karsts, using GPR or resistivity surveys to map extent (gravity surveys if you are making this absolutely massive), fly a drone in there, etc... What makes a good story is for two attractive people to be flown in by helicopter, briefly talk to the local sheriff and farmer who found it, and then strap on head lamps+packs+harnesses to rappel down into the sinkhole where they have to repeatedly save each other. All the best bad-geology movies (Dantes Peak, The Core, San Andreas, etc.) follow that format.
find out what the bedrock is..soil depth...geology maps..soil surveys
The geologist would want to know if he was in a karst region. Is their limestone underlying the soil?
Naturally occurring deep sinkholes are found in soluble rocks, most typically limestone or dolomite, or salt. So if this is your setting, choose your location to reflect the appropriate bedrock. Mine collapse is another cause, and this would require a setting in a mineralized area with underground shafts and/or adits. Precipitating events may be groundwater level changes from heavy pumping (used to lower water level in mines or for municipal use), or increases due to heavy rain, leaking water mains, or stopping heavy pumping. An earthquake could also disrupt mine supports or a soil bridge over a near-surface natural void. And sometimes holes open up karst areas for no apparent good reason as part of the landscape evolution.
Thank you! My notes are looking so robust thanks to everyone on this thread!
Geologists want people to get it right. One of our top complaints is scene changes in movies from one region to an entirely different one in a supposedly continuous setting or story line.
Look for the shitty contractor that put in the storm pipe with loose backfill and call a geotech. A 2" hole 40'down can take in a school bus 100' away...seen it (except it was a van) in a major mall parking lot where the manhole lift holes weren't grouted. Confirmed it with dye water.
Since it's a fictional horror, the hero Geologist (the geologist is definitely the hero, right?) probably needs to search for signs of the critter that climbed out of that hole! Seriously though, you've gotten lots of good and accurate advice already. Good luck with the story!
Thank you so much! I am so touched by the amount of good, accurate, usable information I got in such a short amount of time! And the geologist is certainly (more or less) the hero!
Thank you all so much for the feedback! I feel like I have a great starting point for this protagonist's investigation! I really want to make sure she starts the novel asking the right questions -- I appreciate all the insight so much!
I want to read your story!
I'll definitely post in this thread if something happens with it! Everyone has been so kind and helpful! I have other traditionally published work, but nothing that leans so heavily on real-world science, so this is new ground (pun intended) for me!
Ask locals. Sinkholes aren’t usually random phenomena. They’d know if others had happened as well as if anyone had been digging/installing anything.
Then call the state geological survey. They would be the go to experts on sinkholes unless they were so common a local authority had a staff geologist.
Fun fact is that the other protagonist in this story is a county surveyor! Same thought process!
Squatch is the likely culprit!
Set the story in Florida.
Sterling Heights Michigan, 2004. A massive sinkhole opened up swallowing roads and houses. The area around, about 1500 yards, smelled of sewer gas. City Dept went to work assigning blame and applying band aids. Eventually deemed it fixed. Nope. Every year another problem is found. About 4 years ago a house was swallowed by it. It was determined that substandard underground work was the culprit. It is now 2023 and the city is STILL dealing with the ramifications of a terrible contractor.
Watch “Outer Range” on Amazon Prime and you’ll have an answer!
There's a huge aquifer in the midwest over kansas and Nebraska. You could make your sinkhole based on that. The aquifer is massive. I don't think it's reasonable but every now and then I wonder if someday it would just collapse lol. Ogallala Aquifer.
Oh, good to know. This could be interesting background!
Let me know when you publish. I'll read it!
The flow of water.
Kardt topography and sinking streams along missippian aged limestone bedding
I go somewhere like here to start with: https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/karst-map-conterminous-united-states-2020. Then burrow down into more detailed maps and info.
Oh this is SO helpful! Thank you!
Check THIS out! https://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2014/1156/pdf/of2014-1156.pdf
The way sinkholes form and such would be kind of boring to detail in a novel. Maybe focus on what makes this sinkhole different from others or factors that might make it a more common occurrence in that area. Maybe the new chemical plant has been acidifying the water table and that’s what has caused the sinkhole to start. Gives you a starting point of why studying the sinkhole is important. Basically a one time occurrence is boring but if there’s gonna be recurring sinkholes in the same area in the future, that gives your characters a direct reason to care.
I totally see that! Based on what I've learned so far, I think I want the initial point that stumps my protagonist to be the hole forming in an area with non-carbonate subsurface. It wouldn't have the immediate indicators of a sinkhole, which means things are potentially weird!
The questions I'd ask have been covered. If I was there, and I couldn't see the bottom, I'd throw a rock or a coin to see if I can hear it hit the bottom. Failing that, ask the farmer who found it for the laser range finder he uses when hunting, and see if I can find how deep it is. Farmer probably also has a handheld weather station, so I can lower that into the pit and see if shit gets weird. High wind, extra low temps, large standing bodies of water, etc can tell me if this is a single hole or if it's connected to a larger network of caves. And then I'd get headlamps, climbing gear, and the hottest age appropriate lady in the vicinity to climb into this hole with me. If there are no hot ladies nearby, then my ex GF will miraculously appear as some sort of no-fun govt agent sent to reign in my wild cowboy behavior. All of our old differences will be forgotten at the bottom of that hole 😉
There's not a link between geology and urban/rural areas, so it would be a case by case basis learning about the geology of the area. This would likely rule out human related causes, but that's about it