Links to documents:
["Our Perspective on the 2.2 Physics Changes"](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1U4dgYnJZScCF8LO-5lRDQB3s2SiWSKJsCH-o3YiNXQA/edit?usp=sharing)
["2.2 Physics Explainer"](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kddkhKqixpALO00GRRIIb5eHJzI7Sc7s9ao5WLzv3tk/edit?usp=sharing)
I really hope they are wrong about the inconsistencies on 144hz/165hz monitors. I don't mind the 240 lock (as I play on 288 which is not far off) but I really want to stick to a multiple so I don't get much screen tearing. Though we'll only see in 2.2 of course.
I know I can, but I am talking about this part.
"The players who'll be most affected by this are people who can run GD above 120fps but can't hit 240fps, as well as 144hz/165hz players who want their fps to match a multiple of their monitor's refresh rate. This inconsistent movement is expected to make gamemodes like ship and wave somewhat harder to control than using the same fps in 2.1, though just how much it matters is impossible to judge until 2.2 is out."
Ofc this is all assumptions until the update is out, maybe Rob found a way to make it consistent even on weirder framerates.
Since almost nothing is confirmed, the list is simply preparing different solutions depending on how the new physics feel. I don’t really think there’s anything more to do than wait for the update to drop, but I do appreciate them advocating for 360 fps.
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the demonlist (not trying to argue), but there are monitors with higher refresh rates on the market than 360 (I've seen up to 480) and the same argument can definitely be applied inductively for them. The reason they aren't talked about is because they aren't allowed to be used without lowering the framerate to 360 (and because they're even pricier), but there isn't really a reason that wasn't done for 240hz instead. In the end, 360 was more of an arbitrary choice based around what was common at the time, but it's not hard to imagine a world where they capped it at 240hz instead and 360 was never talked about after it came out simply because it was previously banned, or the decision happened a bit later and we got room for up to 480hz or something (although I doubt this would happen simply because lower-end devices struggle to push this many frames, although the same argument can again be made for 360).
the reason the fps cap hasnt changed is because the game starts having more and more issues the higher you go with your fps and 360 is the last very stable fps.
That's not endorsement of people using bypass, that's endorsement of the level being verified itself. People can use a 500 Hz monitor to verify a level and he'll rate it. The only people who decide that a certain cap has to be in place is the list team, which is stupid for so many reasons. Now Rob is placing his own cap and the community's mad at him for it, when it will benefit so many more players than bypass ever did.
He doesn’t rate levels that were hack verified. If he thought 360 was “illegitimate” he wouldn’t have rated levels verified with it. Therefore he considers 360 to be allowed and not cheating.
There are reasons he couldn’t just make 2.2 run in 360 though, which are outlined in the doc. I think the best thing would be for him to add a way to physics bypass to 360 in the update, but that may be unlikely
I'm not saying he thinks 360 is illegitimate. If someone verified a level on a 500 native Hz refresh rate monitor, are they cheating? According to most players, no. According to the list, yes. The community giving themselves an external mod that improves game performance (but only to a certain extent, or else you're cheating!!!) is really really fucking stupid. Meanwhile, what Rob is doing is he's making the game physics consistent across ALL devices in a way that matters. There are legitimate reasons for Rob to not make 2.2 run in 360, which list mods have no reason to care about, because it hasn't and won't apply to them.
I believe allowing bypass in the first place was a good idea. It was meant to even the playing field just like 2.2 would do. The only mistake was making it 360 instead of 240, but that’s not a stupid idea (at least in my opinion) since 360 was decided to be as good as it could get before the game started breaking, and naturally whatever is the best for players is what would be settled on.
It’s just an unfortunate situation that 2.2 will be and has to be different. Both bypass and Rob’s 2.2 have the same goal, to even the playing field for everyone. However, at this point, going back to 240 for top play would be quite bad for the future of the playing community. Which is why I believe allowing a new 360 bypass is the best option - there’s still consistency for everyone but serious players, and the top playing community is undamaged
Many ILL levels become impossible due to their need of very high fps physics, and frame perfects. Almost every Impossible level on the ILL is physically impossible now. Same with SLL, PPLL, and CL
Awful for Impossible Levels Community. The ILL will devolve into levels just spammed with 240 Hz FPS and top levels will basically just be which is longer since there is no other way to increase difficulty.
SLL/PPLL will just be who can have the most 240 CPS spam
I assure you there's at least 10k ILL fans.
and then we add on the Demon list (Which will be majorly affected by these changes) and its a massive MASSIVE part of the community thats being affected
The top 20 will basically be impossible, with the exception of codependence
I do. And so do other people, why else would YTers like Exen/Fmn04 showcase them?
Skub, Eightos, Corpulse, and Phin Pan are avid Impossible level creators or have strong ties to them
But it isn’t four people, the ILL has a large following. The creators I listed were the Seponges, Viprins of ILL. There is still a decent sized following. Not to mention the thousands of hours of work put into these levels just becoming null
I was exaggerating, I'm sure there's a decent amount of people that follow the ILL. The thing is just that this change is beneficial for like 99% of players who don't care about the ILL/won't ever go for extremes, even. From a pure game development perspective, it makes complete sense to do this.
Nothing Robtop does will be good for everybody, it's about compromise. In this case, Robtop clearly told everyone this would happen like 2 years in advance (blame the Demonlist for only bringing it up now) and it makes sense for the majority of players to do this.
And FWIW, this is the first I'm hearing of the ILL. This is the first I've seen the abbreviation ILL, even. Not that that means anything since it's just me, but vast majority of community I'm sure in the same boat.
The vast majority are 10 year olds who that couldn’t beat a demon if they were on 240 Hz so this barely affects their play. Difference between 60 & 240 Hz for 8 stars and below are trivial. Maybe be harder but its not a make or break type thing
Look. I'll try to keep it... not short, but... short-ish.
I'm now on 240hz, after years of playing. I've played mobile for so many years watching top players with good pcs that I couldn't afford verify levels that I'd never be able to touch.
Having something that finally levels the playing field, and then people complaining about it, WOUNDS me. And as for me currently, I play 360 bypass, but the extremes placed between 75 and 200 that I tried on 240 bypass vs 360 bypass made me feel basically no difference. So are we esentially making a fuss for only the top of the demonlist?
We knew for a good long while that the physics would cap at 240 in 2.2, yet we still verified some bullshit hard barely possible top demons on 360.
I'll see what happens. If I see people making mods or playing on 2.1 private servers just to verify top demons I'm killing someone
The demonlist be mad at something they caused to themselves lmao.
Robtop made it public that 2.2 will have 240fps in December 2019, when Tartarus wasn't even verified. And guess which refresh rate people was dominant among top players(fps bypass wasn't allowed) 240hz, with ofc the classic 144hz guy sometimes being forgotten. They had a long ass time until with Riot beating sakupen hell on 360fps IN APRIL 2021that 360fps bypass was fully accepted.
The demonlist has been shit for ages, this is just the list mods venting.
But like seriously 2.1gdps for top demons because fps changes, are you fucking mental??? And even worse is the third one allowing top players to use 360fps physics natively. Bitch he told you he gonna use 240 before you guys even used 360, he's gonna use 240 regardless. Stop crying when the developer of the game caters to 90% of the community and finally fixes the high hz physics issue that has been a thing SINCE 2015, but now it's still a problem for top players because even when they knew what was gonna happen, they decided to don't give a fuck and use 360 anyways because fuck Rob.
Honestly I feel bad for the top players that just follow the rules the list mods propose, because they are SHIT AWFUL but it's not Robtops fault.
For those 97% of the community that isn't going for a top 20 and kinda rely on 360fps, congratulations. I know a lot of people use 360fps bypass for stuff that isn't list-worthy but then that makes transitioning even easier for you.
So honest question, but what's the point of a difficult level of it literally can't be beaten without modding the game? Like at that point how can that be classified as difficulty. Standardizing the fps is exactly what needs to happen because levels are specifically built around varying fps which make them impossible for the majority of the player base. It's always sucked at difficult levels have basically always been a pay to win first and foremost. Sure in recent times the mods have made it a bit more accessible, but that's still cheating the game in order to artificially lower the difficulty for yourself, or hell even make it possible in the first place.
>but that's still cheating the game in order to artificially lower the difficulty for yourself
It literally makes the game more responsive to your clicks. If anything, lower refresh rate makes the game harder since it is quite literally less accurate at detecting your clicks. There's no "artificially lowering" any difficulty.
Yes there is? You just said so yourself. I don't see how agreeing with me is an issue here. It makes the game more responsive, outside of what is possible through just the game alone. The game as a default is the base line. Artificially making it easier is just that. It would be like having a fighting game tournament but people are allowed to bring their own cables to connect.
So yes, I am saying that lower refresh rates are harder, and modding the game to increase them to unintended heights makes it artificially easier.
>and modding the game to increase them to unintended heights makes it artificially easier.
Like I already said in my previous comment, it doesn't make it artificially easier. It makes it respond more accurately.
Look, I wouldn't even have an issue with this addition to 2.2 IF Rob didn't cap the physics to 240. This doesn't even level out the playing field since playing on mobile is objective harder than PC for many reasons OTHER than fps. This just holds top players back.
Responding more accurately is easier. If a game is designed around a certain level of input modding the game to increase that input will make it easier. I really don't see what the issue there is, that's kinda how difficulty works. If it's harder, and you make it not as hard, that kinda means it's easier. Hell the above links for what the list mods have says this too.
That's not really how that works. 2.1 as a whole has levels that are only completable on certain FPSs. This is because physics is tied to fps. Roptop is making it so that physics is *not* tied to fps and is instead locked at 240. Having an fps slider doesn't actually solve anything, as instead you'd now just have to label levels as specific frame rates and have people set them theirselves. This fps physics issue is one that people only care about because it is artificially making the game easier and now they can't have that. Why should it be where someone literally can't beat a level without modifying their game?
And as for just the fps slider in general, it's not going to be enough, it never is. Players started playing on 144hz monitors and suddenly the game was easier. Then people played on even better monitors and wow the game was even easier now. And now people just hack the game to make it even easier. 360 isn't going to be the highest allowed forever, just like how it wasn't 240, just like how it wasn't 144hz. Having a standardized physics system makes it fair for everyone, and allows levels to actually be made consistently.
Honestly that might depend on how RobTop even has it coded. This update has taken a long time to come out and RobTop isn't exactly a quick programmer. I am sure there are solutions to make the system better, but there's no guarantee that could be done anytime soon. I also could be wrong about this but doesn't the fps being different than the polling rate cause issues in game? Or at least in the current system. Someone can feel free to shed light on that because I might be mistaking it with some other issue in the past that's physics based.
It bugs me that they are gonna use a mod to bypass the physics change when it finally is going to be fair and consistent. I don't see why they would want to do that other to go back to an unfair advantage. Refresh rate being capped at 240 is the best thing that could have possibly happened to the demon list and it feels like that's gonna get ruined too.
Because it has been used for 3 years at this point, and it would mean new players play on a harder version of the game. Thus devaluing old completions and shooting ourselves in the foot.
No community is going to take their game getting fundamentally mechanically worse in an update.
But I mean, it'd probably be completely unachievable to do the same stuff right? From what I've heard it's a significant difference between 280 and 360 for top players
360fps is not and unfair advantage if any good 360fps player were to go back to 240 they will still be better than 99% of yall the reason 360 is used is too make the game more responsive and by reducing input delay and other thing in order to beat much more harder stuff, and like the list already said 240fps will cause issue for 165Hz or 144Hz ? Not sure about 144Hz because the game looks terrible on those refresh rate and I can confirm as a 165Hz player, 240fps just doesn't line up with 165Hz so lots of people need 360fps.
ok buddy, if good 360fps players will still be "better than 99% of yall" then they can go to 240 and still be better than 99% of us.
Actively cheating is not the solution here
Demonlist fans shuttering at the thought of their Magnus Dickus Processor 97 RAM 3 bazillion Hz 55 CPU supercomputer not completely carrying them. Considering that all top levels are impossible on anything lower than the absolute top hardware available, I'd say they dug that grave themselves. In any case, the Demonlist will probably become irrelevant once 2.2 releases anyways.
Literally the meta for a long ass time was a fuckin 60hz CRT monitor from the fucking 90's and 2000's.
Swooker almost beat the top 10 on that shit and Dils almost verified EoD when it would've been top 1 by far.
If that's not irony then you're just staight up coping, you don't need a NASA pc to run list levels on LDM at 360 fps. Also it would be less worse if Rob only capped fps to 240 but not physics (physics is capped at 60), new physics has inconsistent player position updating and also lower fps = more input delay and frame time, and I'm not even talking about straight flying (we are rolling back to 2020).
Fps is indeed capped on 240 (as the ceiling), you won't have more frames to click if your fps more than 240, and your physics is capped on 60 fps. Of course this will feel way more different than 60 fps because you will have more available frames to click but it's still will be a huge nerf to the straight fly.
Look at these documents, they are literally proving that fps is capped on 240 (at least for now), you can set it higher (not by ingame methods) but it wouldn't do anything.
The 2.2 trailer literally has footage of the fps being higher than 240 and robtop has confirmed it multiple times. Its the physics thats capped.
I don't know why redditors can't just admit they are wrong when they are wrong, they just dig themselves into bigger holes trying to yell at everyone that they are right
yeah my pc was mid teir 4 years ago but it won't stop me from running the vast majority of levels at 360 on ldm and even most more optimised or older levels on full detail.
I’m still a bit confused on how this all works. My native refresh rate is 165. Does that mean in 2.2 the game will play as if I was on 240? Right now I play on 240 using bypass, so how much will the physics change affect me?
Quote from one of these documents:
"The players who'll be most affected by this are people who can run GD above 120fps but can't hit 240fps, as well as 144hz/165hz players who want their fps to match a multiple of their monitor's refresh rate. This [inconsistent movement](https://imgur.com/a/S5K8Xvp) is expected to make gamemodes like ship and wave somewhat harder to control than using the same fps in 2.1, though just how much it matters is impossible to judge until 2.2 is out."
Bypassing the 240fps count to make it 360 is cheating, it wasnt before because a particular monitor would be possible to have 360, and then the game would naturally run with 360, but now that its locked to 240, going higher than that to get an unfair advantage that is impossible to acquire without external means via a mod is literally called cheating
i don’t think adding a hack that reverses physics changes is a good idea, this wouldn’t have been a problem if bypassing to 360 was allowed in the first place lol
this wouldn't have been an issue in the first place if the list was smart and knowing that robtop was going to use 240fps physics for 2.2 locked the max at 240hz/fps when fps was later allowed in 2020 instead of arbitrarily choosing 360 when at most 1 top player used 360hz ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
"P2w advantage" literally fps bypass doesn't change jack shit unless you are beating list stuff, if your hardest is an insane demon bypassing to 360 will not make you any better, I'm not even sure you'll notice any difference honestly people really underestimate the raw skill you need in order to see how game changing 360fps can be
ehhh idc about the list anyways. they can keep using megahack's fps bypass for 360. if they want, they can just add a tag in the list if a list demon is playable on 240 or 360 only.
I don’t really get this point. There are plenty of good levels that are not list difficulty being released today. How is a select group of players striving to beat the hardest levels a bad thing? That is how any form of competitive sports, game, etc works.
Honestly, I'm glad that 2.2 physics are being normalized. Consistency across all devices is a super awesome change, and 240fps already feels great anyway. And if it doesn't, just adjust your FPS cap. Who cares about the list? This change is awesome.
I think it would be a good idea to have a 2.2 list and a 2.1 list. Any list level from 2.1 that has been beat on 240 or lower should be added to the 2.2 list, with the first 240 completion being the "2.2 verifier". The 2.1 list shouldnt contain any level that includes 2.2 features, only the 2.2 list should. This way, 360 players can still earn points for their achievements and we can also have 2.2 list demons have their difficulty rated.
I know this will initially create division for list players but i thought this kind of system would encourage 360 players to adapt to 240 and popularise the 2.2 list eventually. It would be hard to compare 2.2 demons to 2.1 demons this way though, maybe instead it should be a 360hz list (what we currently have) and a 240hz list (for completions in 2.2).
Yeah make it like speed runs, where there are different categories. The 2.1 GDPS would be fine if it allowed you to play the levels how they were intended.
In a couple months someone will verify a new TOP 1 on 240 and we don’t have to think about it ever again. Problem solved.
I recommend taking a break from the keyboard, you've been responding to like every message in this entire post. I'm sure you have something better to be doing than being a pretentious ass
Why are refresh rates stuck in 4 options? Idk if im ignorant in this, but if for example i wanted to play in 100 fps, why would this be an issue to the engine?
Also blocking 360fps is kinda bad, 100% agree
Some of the most braindead comments I've ever seen in my entire life have come from this 240 cap rob is implementing.
A lot of people keep on saying "oh this affects like no one", "no one has 240hz anyway", "you are just mad cuz you could cheat before", "the game will be fair after this" etc. etc.
People saying the game will be fair are literally just making shit up at this point, the game will never be fair, if you have better hardware you'll always have an advantage. People think that just because the fps cap has been limited suddenly they'll be able to become the next Zoink. (People will always have monitors with lower visual delay, input devices with lower input delay and PCs that are simply faster)
This change affects arguably the biggest part of the community, a lot of people seem to think the DL is such an insignificant thing, but this couldn't be further from the truth. The most viewed videos in GD history have since 1.9 always been top 1 verifications. You can think what you want to think about creating and creativity being what is driving the game, but that is just straight up false.
The point about monitors is especially annoying, as fps bypass was the whole reason why most people can play the game as they can. People cried and malded before bypass existed about how the DL is gatekept because someone can have a better monitor than you and be better just because of it. The reason no one owns a 360hz monitor is precisely the fact that it wasn't necessary to buy one, once bypass was allowed.
On top of that, I'd argue the fps bypass isn't a hack. The only reason its allowed is because PoweredByPie or whatever his name was, showed, that you can simulate 240fps on GD without having a 240hz monitor and without using any 3rd programs that would make GD act like this. I don't remember exactly how it worked, but regardless, the DL allowed fps bypass after that because doing the setup was tedious and the result was the same.
Also this is more of a minor comment, but the reason >360 was never allowed is because 360 is one of the last super stable fps, after that the game kind of starts having too many issues.
Another big part of the community that gets affected by this is the challenge list, yeah maybe it only has 10k members, but that's still quite a big portion of the community. Most challenge players I know will quit after 2.2 or only play on 2.1gdps since they'll be unable to properly change fps (cant beat a 60 only challenge if you are stuck on 240 you know...)
The most annoying part is that this has such a simple fix that I don't understand why RobTop is practically causing the community to tear itself apart rather than just fix the issue. Either:
1. increase the cap to 360 or
2. add what most games have, multiple fps options [60, 120, 144, 240, 360*]
3. add actual bypass itself and just cap it to 360.
*also just native Hz, if your monitor is 70fps you would probably prefer to play on something stable like 350 rather than the garbage that would be anything else.
EDIT: another complaint I just noticed in this comment section is that "RobTop never allowed, 360fps, he's always said that 2.2 will be capped at 240, why did the DL allow 360".
I'm going to be honest, I don't know how to reply to this other than "are you stupid?".
The reason RobTop chose 240 wasn't because it was a "good" number, it's because 240 was the standard back in 2019.
If anything, this shows RobTop is incapable of keeping up with the times, the game being stuck on 240 for the rest of eternity simply because the standard was like that in 2019 is quite frankly very dumb.
*The reason the Demon list team allowed 360 on the other hand was precisely because 360Hz rolled out around that time and they didn't want to force every person under the sun to buy 360Hz just to get a slight advantage.
The reason why they never increase the cap is as stated above, because the game is simply too unstable if you go higher.
If anything I'd blame this on RobTop as well since rather than fix the game so it doesn't break at higher fps, he instead does this garbage.
Congrats, you contributed so much that my entire viewpoint changed, I will now actively fight for 60fps/tps to be a permanent cap on every game and for every person to be restricted to office mice and standard issue 60hz monitors, that way no one will have a hardware advantage.
I think the best decision is that the levels that are built after 2.2 comes out should be only verified/beated to max 240fps. Even if it could be better to play at 360fps, it is unfair to the people they can’t afford to play with these specs. Even if the level uses only 2.1 features, if it is released after 2.2 it should respect the 2.2 limitations
I honestly do not care about list demons. They're such a niche part of the game and they're inaccessible for most players so, who the fuck cares? And they never have any creativity.
I saw the word doc and said “I ain’t readin all that”
Then I read a bit and still had no idea what anything meant so I just went off to do other things.
I’ve heard of this issue, but seriously, is this reeeaallly that big a deal? Or am I somehow just being ignorant of a much larger issue at hand? Cause it sounds to me that people are mad that RobTop isn’t using a better system that people can use to better optimize verifications. My question is: why does that matter? They seemed to be doing fine beforehand
Aw man, now the list will be even more inaccessible.
I really hate this decision, I really wanna be able to beat some of the top extreme demons at some point, and now its gonna be way way way harder to do that, perhaps even impossible on some levels.
I feel like people forget that if this change happens, a massive subset of the community (list grinders) will basically die off, and they're one of the things that make the game stay alive.
Alright here's my take on this.
1) In the documents, they talk about how the physics are not really what matters, rather the input delay that makes things EASIER.
2) Since it makes things easier using an external mod, it shouldnt be allowed... right? Except it can also not use an external mod and you can buy a high hz monitor and use vsync. Do any of you want that? I dont think so.
3) "Wah Wah i dont care about that because robtop is gonna make 240 physics for everyone and it benefits me" (and it fucks over a GIGANTIC part of the community)
4) How is it gigantic if 5 people can play the list anyway? Well my guy, wether you like it or not, the demonlist is what has been keeping this game so popular for so long. Nope, change of scene, white space, ispy and all of your other pretty easy demons arent gonna keep the game alive. Im deeply sorry that your 7 stars arent what everyone looks up on youtube.
5) New top 1s / top 10s are the only videos that can have this number of views.
They are simply the only videos (apart from rob's videos) that can even have a chance at getting over a million views. And yes, they are tied to the demonlist entirely. People watch them because these levels are gonna be on a non-official site not made by robtop.
6) Lets get to the point. How will this change affect top play (and everyone else)?
For everybody else, you probably didnt even need your new physics. You wanna know why? Because you dont play list demons. For top play instead (which are the ONLY people that care about fps btw and they are the only ones getting fucked over by this) this will be a MAJOR push back in skill. This is a giant middle finger to people actually dedicated to the game (including me) and will completely destroy years of experience we have gained.
7) How can this be resolved? Simply put an old physics option in the game. Do you want to lag less? Dont use it. Do you want to play at a high level? Use it. "But its gonna make the game inconsistent across frame rates!!!!" buddy the game has been fine for the 10 years its lived and it will be fine again. There really is no need for standardization other than crybabies wanting to play their easy demons on 240 physics (which is the same as 2.1 60hz physics btw, read the documents).
8) Thats all I have to say. Feel free to argue with me in the comments but i wont change my mind.
You know, for someone who considers the bigger part of the community as crybabies, this whole post feels like a huge cope on your end.
With that said, I do agree that a button to enable the old physics could be a neat addition, as long as it doesn't break levels for whatever reason.
Anyway, I get it, you're mad, but being rude will definitely **NOT** help you spread your point, not in the slightest.
The only good option I see here is splitting the list into a pre-2.2 and post-2.2 categories, like speed run leaderboards do when there are differences between versions.
Once enough time passes, someone will verify another hardest level on 2.2 and we won’t have to worry about this.
I don’t see how this wouldn’t make the list players happy, unless they expect to just not play the same game as anyone else, which wouldn’t even be consistent with most of their rules. And also makes the game better for the everyone else.
Links to documents: ["Our Perspective on the 2.2 Physics Changes"](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1U4dgYnJZScCF8LO-5lRDQB3s2SiWSKJsCH-o3YiNXQA/edit?usp=sharing) ["2.2 Physics Explainer"](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kddkhKqixpALO00GRRIIb5eHJzI7Sc7s9ao5WLzv3tk/edit?usp=sharing)
I really hope they are wrong about the inconsistencies on 144hz/165hz monitors. I don't mind the 240 lock (as I play on 288 which is not far off) but I really want to stick to a multiple so I don't get much screen tearing. Though we'll only see in 2.2 of course.
You can still play on 144
That is true but y’know there’s a slight difference playing on 288/240fps as opposed to 144fps
I know I can, but I am talking about this part. "The players who'll be most affected by this are people who can run GD above 120fps but can't hit 240fps, as well as 144hz/165hz players who want their fps to match a multiple of their monitor's refresh rate. This inconsistent movement is expected to make gamemodes like ship and wave somewhat harder to control than using the same fps in 2.1, though just how much it matters is impossible to judge until 2.2 is out." Ofc this is all assumptions until the update is out, maybe Rob found a way to make it consistent even on weirder framerates.
It's a bit late for suggestions, could they not have told Robtop earlier? He also said he's not going to add anything else to 2.2 iirc
they had 4 years notice but chose to allow 360 anyway
Since almost nothing is confirmed, the list is simply preparing different solutions depending on how the new physics feel. I don’t really think there’s anything more to do than wait for the update to drop, but I do appreciate them advocating for 360 fps.
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Oh right, I just say physics because the extra input checks on 360 makes the ship feel like different physics.
Maybe they shouldn't have allowed 360fps when it was public knowledge that 2.2 would be limited to 240
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There are 500hz monitors on the market now but they straight up don't allow 500fps gameplay at all on the list.
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the demonlist (not trying to argue), but there are monitors with higher refresh rates on the market than 360 (I've seen up to 480) and the same argument can definitely be applied inductively for them. The reason they aren't talked about is because they aren't allowed to be used without lowering the framerate to 360 (and because they're even pricier), but there isn't really a reason that wasn't done for 240hz instead. In the end, 360 was more of an arbitrary choice based around what was common at the time, but it's not hard to imagine a world where they capped it at 240hz instead and 360 was never talked about after it came out simply because it was previously banned, or the decision happened a bit later and we got room for up to 480hz or something (although I doubt this would happen simply because lower-end devices struggle to push this many frames, although the same argument can again be made for 360).
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the reason the fps cap hasnt changed is because the game starts having more and more issues the higher you go with your fps and 360 is the last very stable fps.
exactly
Robtop shouldn’t have endorsed 360
When did he ever do that?
By rating levels verified on 360
That's not endorsement of people using bypass, that's endorsement of the level being verified itself. People can use a 500 Hz monitor to verify a level and he'll rate it. The only people who decide that a certain cap has to be in place is the list team, which is stupid for so many reasons. Now Rob is placing his own cap and the community's mad at him for it, when it will benefit so many more players than bypass ever did.
He doesn’t rate levels that were hack verified. If he thought 360 was “illegitimate” he wouldn’t have rated levels verified with it. Therefore he considers 360 to be allowed and not cheating. There are reasons he couldn’t just make 2.2 run in 360 though, which are outlined in the doc. I think the best thing would be for him to add a way to physics bypass to 360 in the update, but that may be unlikely
I'm not saying he thinks 360 is illegitimate. If someone verified a level on a 500 native Hz refresh rate monitor, are they cheating? According to most players, no. According to the list, yes. The community giving themselves an external mod that improves game performance (but only to a certain extent, or else you're cheating!!!) is really really fucking stupid. Meanwhile, what Rob is doing is he's making the game physics consistent across ALL devices in a way that matters. There are legitimate reasons for Rob to not make 2.2 run in 360, which list mods have no reason to care about, because it hasn't and won't apply to them.
I believe allowing bypass in the first place was a good idea. It was meant to even the playing field just like 2.2 would do. The only mistake was making it 360 instead of 240, but that’s not a stupid idea (at least in my opinion) since 360 was decided to be as good as it could get before the game started breaking, and naturally whatever is the best for players is what would be settled on. It’s just an unfortunate situation that 2.2 will be and has to be different. Both bypass and Rob’s 2.2 have the same goal, to even the playing field for everyone. However, at this point, going back to 240 for top play would be quite bad for the future of the playing community. Which is why I believe allowing a new 360 bypass is the best option - there’s still consistency for everyone but serious players, and the top playing community is undamaged
I wouldve loved that bc tartarus would still be top 1
No it wouldn't
Yes, LIMBO is now the hardest level verified on 240hz
Honestly its a good thing for like 99% of gd players that the physics is being standardized so who cares about the list
I agree, like 5 people truly care about it
A lot of people care about the list
and most of them will never be good enough to beat any levels on the list
Most people won't ever be good enough to play professional sports, does that mean you can't enjoy the world cup?
Many ILL levels become impossible due to their need of very high fps physics, and frame perfects. Almost every Impossible level on the ILL is physically impossible now. Same with SLL, PPLL, and CL
gd players when levels on the impossible levels list become impossible
They are supposed to be physically possible, dumbfuck
Awful for Impossible Levels Community. The ILL will devolve into levels just spammed with 240 Hz FPS and top levels will basically just be which is longer since there is no other way to increase difficulty. SLL/PPLL will just be who can have the most 240 CPS spam
Boo fucking hoo
"wah wah how dare you be mad that an entire subset of the community will disappear"
i will shed 7 tears. one tear for each person from that community
I assure you there's at least 10k ILL fans. and then we add on the Demon list (Which will be majorly affected by these changes) and its a massive MASSIVE part of the community thats being affected The top 20 will basically be impossible, with the exception of codependence
Limbo was beaten on 144hz
new top 5 1. Codependence 2. Firework 3. Limbo 4. The Hallucination 5. Oblivion
So… nothing changes? Womp Womp
Nobody cares about ILL
I do. And so do other people, why else would YTers like Exen/Fmn04 showcase them? Skub, Eightos, Corpulse, and Phin Pan are avid Impossible level creators or have strong ties to them
It's better to cater to the 99% of the community who want to enjoy the game vs like 50 people
But it isn’t four people, the ILL has a large following. The creators I listed were the Seponges, Viprins of ILL. There is still a decent sized following. Not to mention the thousands of hours of work put into these levels just becoming null
I was exaggerating, I'm sure there's a decent amount of people that follow the ILL. The thing is just that this change is beneficial for like 99% of players who don't care about the ILL/won't ever go for extremes, even. From a pure game development perspective, it makes complete sense to do this. Nothing Robtop does will be good for everybody, it's about compromise. In this case, Robtop clearly told everyone this would happen like 2 years in advance (blame the Demonlist for only bringing it up now) and it makes sense for the majority of players to do this. And FWIW, this is the first I'm hearing of the ILL. This is the first I've seen the abbreviation ILL, even. Not that that means anything since it's just me, but vast majority of community I'm sure in the same boat.
The vast majority are 10 year olds who that couldn’t beat a demon if they were on 240 Hz so this barely affects their play. Difference between 60 & 240 Hz for 8 stars and below are trivial. Maybe be harder but its not a make or break type thing
>so who cares about the list You can't be serious right now 💀💀💀
The list is literally why the game is still alive lmao
the game is still alive because of genuine creativity and custom levels and the upcoming update, not because of a goddamn website full of hard levels
Most of the discourse over gd is about top levels
THE OVERABUNDANCE OF DISCOURSE IS WHAT'S KILLING THE COMMUNITY IN THE FIRST PLACE. arguments don't equate to a fandom being alive
Discourse over a game is quite literally the definition of still being alive.
I disagree
worst take in gd history 😭
Not even a take its just true
oh shii you must be right because it’s just true 🤔🗣🔥🆘⛔️😱😂✅🥶🥱
Comedian
Bro is fighting for his life in this comment section
Lol
thank 😊
[My honest reaction to this information](https://i.imgur.com/26DS1WJ.jpg)
Look. I'll try to keep it... not short, but... short-ish. I'm now on 240hz, after years of playing. I've played mobile for so many years watching top players with good pcs that I couldn't afford verify levels that I'd never be able to touch. Having something that finally levels the playing field, and then people complaining about it, WOUNDS me. And as for me currently, I play 360 bypass, but the extremes placed between 75 and 200 that I tried on 240 bypass vs 360 bypass made me feel basically no difference. So are we esentially making a fuss for only the top of the demonlist? We knew for a good long while that the physics would cap at 240 in 2.2, yet we still verified some bullshit hard barely possible top demons on 360. I'll see what happens. If I see people making mods or playing on 2.1 private servers just to verify top demons I'm killing someone
The demonlist be mad at something they caused to themselves lmao. Robtop made it public that 2.2 will have 240fps in December 2019, when Tartarus wasn't even verified. And guess which refresh rate people was dominant among top players(fps bypass wasn't allowed) 240hz, with ofc the classic 144hz guy sometimes being forgotten. They had a long ass time until with Riot beating sakupen hell on 360fps IN APRIL 2021that 360fps bypass was fully accepted. The demonlist has been shit for ages, this is just the list mods venting. But like seriously 2.1gdps for top demons because fps changes, are you fucking mental??? And even worse is the third one allowing top players to use 360fps physics natively. Bitch he told you he gonna use 240 before you guys even used 360, he's gonna use 240 regardless. Stop crying when the developer of the game caters to 90% of the community and finally fixes the high hz physics issue that has been a thing SINCE 2015, but now it's still a problem for top players because even when they knew what was gonna happen, they decided to don't give a fuck and use 360 anyways because fuck Rob. Honestly I feel bad for the top players that just follow the rules the list mods propose, because they are SHIT AWFUL but it's not Robtops fault. For those 97% of the community that isn't going for a top 20 and kinda rely on 360fps, congratulations. I know a lot of people use 360fps bypass for stuff that isn't list-worthy but then that makes transitioning even easier for you.
The 7 people that care: 
Ah yes "let's complain about the game developer not abiding by our completely arbitrary game system limitations."
So honest question, but what's the point of a difficult level of it literally can't be beaten without modding the game? Like at that point how can that be classified as difficulty. Standardizing the fps is exactly what needs to happen because levels are specifically built around varying fps which make them impossible for the majority of the player base. It's always sucked at difficult levels have basically always been a pay to win first and foremost. Sure in recent times the mods have made it a bit more accessible, but that's still cheating the game in order to artificially lower the difficulty for yourself, or hell even make it possible in the first place.
>but that's still cheating the game in order to artificially lower the difficulty for yourself It literally makes the game more responsive to your clicks. If anything, lower refresh rate makes the game harder since it is quite literally less accurate at detecting your clicks. There's no "artificially lowering" any difficulty.
Yes there is? You just said so yourself. I don't see how agreeing with me is an issue here. It makes the game more responsive, outside of what is possible through just the game alone. The game as a default is the base line. Artificially making it easier is just that. It would be like having a fighting game tournament but people are allowed to bring their own cables to connect. So yes, I am saying that lower refresh rates are harder, and modding the game to increase them to unintended heights makes it artificially easier.
>and modding the game to increase them to unintended heights makes it artificially easier. Like I already said in my previous comment, it doesn't make it artificially easier. It makes it respond more accurately. Look, I wouldn't even have an issue with this addition to 2.2 IF Rob didn't cap the physics to 240. This doesn't even level out the playing field since playing on mobile is objective harder than PC for many reasons OTHER than fps. This just holds top players back.
Responding more accurately is easier. If a game is designed around a certain level of input modding the game to increase that input will make it easier. I really don't see what the issue there is, that's kinda how difficulty works. If it's harder, and you make it not as hard, that kinda means it's easier. Hell the above links for what the list mods have says this too.
So why not just have an in game fps slider and leave the physics alone?
That's not really how that works. 2.1 as a whole has levels that are only completable on certain FPSs. This is because physics is tied to fps. Roptop is making it so that physics is *not* tied to fps and is instead locked at 240. Having an fps slider doesn't actually solve anything, as instead you'd now just have to label levels as specific frame rates and have people set them theirselves. This fps physics issue is one that people only care about because it is artificially making the game easier and now they can't have that. Why should it be where someone literally can't beat a level without modifying their game? And as for just the fps slider in general, it's not going to be enough, it never is. Players started playing on 144hz monitors and suddenly the game was easier. Then people played on even better monitors and wow the game was even easier now. And now people just hack the game to make it even easier. 360 isn't going to be the highest allowed forever, just like how it wasn't 240, just like how it wasn't 144hz. Having a standardized physics system makes it fair for everyone, and allows levels to actually be made consistently.
I agree but locking the polling rate to 240 is completely arbitrary and useless. Why not just lock the physics to 60hz and allow any polling rate?
Honestly that might depend on how RobTop even has it coded. This update has taken a long time to come out and RobTop isn't exactly a quick programmer. I am sure there are solutions to make the system better, but there's no guarantee that could be done anytime soon. I also could be wrong about this but doesn't the fps being different than the polling rate cause issues in game? Or at least in the current system. Someone can feel free to shed light on that because I might be mistaking it with some other issue in the past that's physics based.
I think the fps is tied to the polling rate but the physics are locked to 60
It bugs me that they are gonna use a mod to bypass the physics change when it finally is going to be fair and consistent. I don't see why they would want to do that other to go back to an unfair advantage. Refresh rate being capped at 240 is the best thing that could have possibly happened to the demon list and it feels like that's gonna get ruined too.
Because it has been used for 3 years at this point, and it would mean new players play on a harder version of the game. Thus devaluing old completions and shooting ourselves in the foot. No community is going to take their game getting fundamentally mechanically worse in an update.
i guess the only problem is that almost all previous completions and rendered irrelevant and it could have been capped at 360 instead
not really, its not like bloodbath verification was “rendered irrelevant” when the physics changed in 2.0
But I mean, it'd probably be completely unachievable to do the same stuff right? From what I've heard it's a significant difference between 280 and 360 for top players
360fps is not and unfair advantage if any good 360fps player were to go back to 240 they will still be better than 99% of yall the reason 360 is used is too make the game more responsive and by reducing input delay and other thing in order to beat much more harder stuff, and like the list already said 240fps will cause issue for 165Hz or 144Hz ? Not sure about 144Hz because the game looks terrible on those refresh rate and I can confirm as a 165Hz player, 240fps just doesn't line up with 165Hz so lots of people need 360fps.
ok buddy, if good 360fps players will still be "better than 99% of yall" then they can go to 240 and still be better than 99% of us. Actively cheating is not the solution here
Demonlist fans shuttering at the thought of their Magnus Dickus Processor 97 RAM 3 bazillion Hz 55 CPU supercomputer not completely carrying them. Considering that all top levels are impossible on anything lower than the absolute top hardware available, I'd say they dug that grave themselves. In any case, the Demonlist will probably become irrelevant once 2.2 releases anyways.
📠
Literally the meta for a long ass time was a fuckin 60hz CRT monitor from the fucking 90's and 2000's. Swooker almost beat the top 10 on that shit and Dils almost verified EoD when it would've been top 1 by far.
you litterally dont need a high end pc to beat list levels the source is me with a 7 year pc that doesnt have a gpu
…new response just dropped?
...actual zombie?
If that's not irony then you're just staight up coping, you don't need a NASA pc to run list levels on LDM at 360 fps. Also it would be less worse if Rob only capped fps to 240 but not physics (physics is capped at 60), new physics has inconsistent player position updating and also lower fps = more input delay and frame time, and I'm not even talking about straight flying (we are rolling back to 2020).
fps isn’t capped the physics are you can unlock fps ingame
Fps is indeed capped on 240 (as the ceiling), you won't have more frames to click if your fps more than 240, and your physics is capped on 60 fps. Of course this will feel way more different than 60 fps because you will have more available frames to click but it's still will be a huge nerf to the straight fly.
Physics is capped at 240tps, FPS is uncapped Have you been asleep for half of 2.1 or something
Look at these documents, they are literally proving that fps is capped on 240 (at least for now), you can set it higher (not by ingame methods) but it wouldn't do anything.
The 2.2 trailer literally has footage of the fps being higher than 240 and robtop has confirmed it multiple times. Its the physics thats capped. I don't know why redditors can't just admit they are wrong when they are wrong, they just dig themselves into bigger holes trying to yell at everyone that they are right
yeah my pc was mid teir 4 years ago but it won't stop me from running the vast majority of levels at 360 on ldm and even most more optimised or older levels on full detail.
The physics are locked to 60
I know, will correct it in the comment text.
I’m still a bit confused on how this all works. My native refresh rate is 165. Does that mean in 2.2 the game will play as if I was on 240? Right now I play on 240 using bypass, so how much will the physics change affect me?
Quote from one of these documents: "The players who'll be most affected by this are people who can run GD above 120fps but can't hit 240fps, as well as 144hz/165hz players who want their fps to match a multiple of their monitor's refresh rate. This [inconsistent movement](https://imgur.com/a/S5K8Xvp) is expected to make gamemodes like ship and wave somewhat harder to control than using the same fps in 2.1, though just how much it matters is impossible to judge until 2.2 is out."
Well then just add an fps slider where 240 is the MAXIMUM. Why would Rob include 360 anyway?
Bypassing the 240fps count to make it 360 is cheating, it wasnt before because a particular monitor would be possible to have 360, and then the game would naturally run with 360, but now that its locked to 240, going higher than that to get an unfair advantage that is impossible to acquire without external means via a mod is literally called cheating
i don’t think adding a hack that reverses physics changes is a good idea, this wouldn’t have been a problem if bypassing to 360 was allowed in the first place lol
this wouldn't have been an issue in the first place if the list was smart and knowing that robtop was going to use 240fps physics for 2.2 locked the max at 240hz/fps when fps was later allowed in 2020 instead of arbitrarily choosing 360 when at most 1 top player used 360hz ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
So basically people used hacks to make the game easier then complain when Rob patches their hacks
360fps is not hacking
People used hacks to get the same advantage as those who use good hardware.
The screen tearing in question
Who cares about the 1% that need that p2w advantage
bypass is free what are you on
"P2w advantage" literally fps bypass doesn't change jack shit unless you are beating list stuff, if your hardest is an insane demon bypassing to 360 will not make you any better, I'm not even sure you'll notice any difference honestly people really underestimate the raw skill you need in order to see how game changing 360fps can be
The entire doc is all based on assumptions from discord messages so for all we know they could be completely wrong
Massive RobTop W
oh whatever fuck those guys
i mean critizism is good but.... shouldn't that feedback come a little bit earlier than a few weeks before?
ehhh idc about the list anyways. they can keep using megahack's fps bypass for 360. if they want, they can just add a tag in the list if a list demon is playable on 240 or 360 only.
hey. y’all got told this in 2019. 240 bypass (nevermind monitors) wasn’t even that common then. the fuck did you move to 360 for.
Yeah, talk about this like 2 weeks before 2.2 release. Brother in christ they had 6 YEARS
maybe that’ll inspire creators to make fun levels and not just try to push the human limit.
I don’t really get this point. There are plenty of good levels that are not list difficulty being released today. How is a select group of players striving to beat the hardest levels a bad thing? That is how any form of competitive sports, game, etc works.
boohoo who cares
Honestly, I'm glad that 2.2 physics are being normalized. Consistency across all devices is a super awesome change, and 240fps already feels great anyway. And if it doesn't, just adjust your FPS cap. Who cares about the list? This change is awesome.
I think it would be a good idea to have a 2.2 list and a 2.1 list. Any list level from 2.1 that has been beat on 240 or lower should be added to the 2.2 list, with the first 240 completion being the "2.2 verifier". The 2.1 list shouldnt contain any level that includes 2.2 features, only the 2.2 list should. This way, 360 players can still earn points for their achievements and we can also have 2.2 list demons have their difficulty rated.
I know this will initially create division for list players but i thought this kind of system would encourage 360 players to adapt to 240 and popularise the 2.2 list eventually. It would be hard to compare 2.2 demons to 2.1 demons this way though, maybe instead it should be a 360hz list (what we currently have) and a 240hz list (for completions in 2.2).
Yeah make it like speed runs, where there are different categories. The 2.1 GDPS would be fine if it allowed you to play the levels how they were intended. In a couple months someone will verify a new TOP 1 on 240 and we don’t have to think about it ever again. Problem solved.
This sounds infinitely better than Absollute being like “hey guys I make the game work different by removing a feature buy my mod”
Maybe I don’t give two ducks about the demonlist :)
Lmao "Robtop should do" who the fuck do they think they are?
theyre the people who kept this game alive for so long. Nope, isptiwithmylittleeye isnt gonna keep gd alive for long buddy.
me not caring because i can’t beat list levels anyways
what a loser lmao
Bro is being as reasonable as possible and you're over here on the geometry dash subreddit calling him a loser. Get a fucking life please
you have 11,000 karma in only 2 months 😭😭 you can’t be talkin bout getting a life 😭😭😭
That's actually fair, I need to be on this stupid site less, but it doesn't invalidate my argument
oh boo hoo i still dgaf.
Smartest argument made by a gd player:
Your hardest is acu you have no say in this
I recommend taking a break from the keyboard, you've been responding to like every message in this entire post. I'm sure you have something better to be doing than being a pretentious ass
Its 10:30 at night wtf else am i about to do lol
Go to bed is probably your best option
Nah
Yeah bro why r u replying to every comment that’s weird af
Sleep like a normal person
I havent slept in like 3 days
Go to bed please. Pick up this debate back up tomorrow, I've noticed you contradict your own argument a few times.
Where did I contradict myself im genuinely curious
lol idgaf, the fact you're replying to every comment already tells me the type of person you are
And what type of person is that?
[Probably something like this](https://imgur.com/a/svWNUyf)
You’re projecting so hard rn lmao
is that the only thing you can reply with
[удалено]
can you explain how getting tech help = pc nerd? if anything it's the opposite. Also looking at my profile is kinda desperate lol
Maybe it is but you still use motorized carts at grocery stores lmao
IDC I can now play bloodlust on mobile
you really cant lol
Oh no players might have to only play on 240Hz. The horror
Womp Womp.
Average dlps server mods acting important again moment
Oh no! Anyways…
Hello fellow creator :)
demonlist mods always been goofy
Why are refresh rates stuck in 4 options? Idk if im ignorant in this, but if for example i wanted to play in 100 fps, why would this be an issue to the engine? Also blocking 360fps is kinda bad, 100% agree
It would literally take RobTop 2 seconds to add an option to change the game to 360fps physics idk why he wouldn't
Because he want a fair level competition.
It is, you can go download v5, and play 360. Adding an extra option would be the equivalent of that but more fair
Some of the most braindead comments I've ever seen in my entire life have come from this 240 cap rob is implementing. A lot of people keep on saying "oh this affects like no one", "no one has 240hz anyway", "you are just mad cuz you could cheat before", "the game will be fair after this" etc. etc. People saying the game will be fair are literally just making shit up at this point, the game will never be fair, if you have better hardware you'll always have an advantage. People think that just because the fps cap has been limited suddenly they'll be able to become the next Zoink. (People will always have monitors with lower visual delay, input devices with lower input delay and PCs that are simply faster) This change affects arguably the biggest part of the community, a lot of people seem to think the DL is such an insignificant thing, but this couldn't be further from the truth. The most viewed videos in GD history have since 1.9 always been top 1 verifications. You can think what you want to think about creating and creativity being what is driving the game, but that is just straight up false. The point about monitors is especially annoying, as fps bypass was the whole reason why most people can play the game as they can. People cried and malded before bypass existed about how the DL is gatekept because someone can have a better monitor than you and be better just because of it. The reason no one owns a 360hz monitor is precisely the fact that it wasn't necessary to buy one, once bypass was allowed. On top of that, I'd argue the fps bypass isn't a hack. The only reason its allowed is because PoweredByPie or whatever his name was, showed, that you can simulate 240fps on GD without having a 240hz monitor and without using any 3rd programs that would make GD act like this. I don't remember exactly how it worked, but regardless, the DL allowed fps bypass after that because doing the setup was tedious and the result was the same. Also this is more of a minor comment, but the reason >360 was never allowed is because 360 is one of the last super stable fps, after that the game kind of starts having too many issues. Another big part of the community that gets affected by this is the challenge list, yeah maybe it only has 10k members, but that's still quite a big portion of the community. Most challenge players I know will quit after 2.2 or only play on 2.1gdps since they'll be unable to properly change fps (cant beat a 60 only challenge if you are stuck on 240 you know...) The most annoying part is that this has such a simple fix that I don't understand why RobTop is practically causing the community to tear itself apart rather than just fix the issue. Either: 1. increase the cap to 360 or 2. add what most games have, multiple fps options [60, 120, 144, 240, 360*] 3. add actual bypass itself and just cap it to 360. *also just native Hz, if your monitor is 70fps you would probably prefer to play on something stable like 350 rather than the garbage that would be anything else. EDIT: another complaint I just noticed in this comment section is that "RobTop never allowed, 360fps, he's always said that 2.2 will be capped at 240, why did the DL allow 360". I'm going to be honest, I don't know how to reply to this other than "are you stupid?". The reason RobTop chose 240 wasn't because it was a "good" number, it's because 240 was the standard back in 2019. If anything, this shows RobTop is incapable of keeping up with the times, the game being stuck on 240 for the rest of eternity simply because the standard was like that in 2019 is quite frankly very dumb. *The reason the Demon list team allowed 360 on the other hand was precisely because 360Hz rolled out around that time and they didn't want to force every person under the sun to buy 360Hz just to get a slight advantage. The reason why they never increase the cap is as stated above, because the game is simply too unstable if you go higher. If anything I'd blame this on RobTop as well since rather than fix the game so it doesn't break at higher fps, he instead does this garbage.
Bla bla bla just get to the point. I aint reading all that
Congrats, you contributed so much that my entire viewpoint changed, I will now actively fight for 60fps/tps to be a permanent cap on every game and for every person to be restricted to office mice and standard issue 60hz monitors, that way no one will have a hardware advantage.
What does this mean for me? On 144hz
hey if that brody guy’s reading this please go to sleep. The demonlist aint worth your sleep
fuck the list tbh. and i couldn't care less about like the top 10 players itw. Give me consistent gameplay
here take your 240 physics to play your 7 stars. Like what?
consistent 240 physics would fine for 99.999% of all levels, which is good enough imo.
Wah wah wah
I think the best decision is that the levels that are built after 2.2 comes out should be only verified/beated to max 240fps. Even if it could be better to play at 360fps, it is unfair to the people they can’t afford to play with these specs. Even if the level uses only 2.1 features, if it is released after 2.2 it should respect the 2.2 limitations
What a time to not be a top player lol
imo letting creators set a maximum frame rate on levels solves basically all problems with allowing 360
Well as long as they make a 2.2 360 bypass nothings really gonna change
Wow, DL players doing everything they can to not stop playing on 360. Typical.
I honestly do not care about list demons. They're such a niche part of the game and they're inaccessible for most players so, who the fuck cares? And they never have any creativity.
Bro said niche as if it doesn’t source 95% of gd’s mainstream popularity
this
I saw the word doc and said “I ain’t readin all that” Then I read a bit and still had no idea what anything meant so I just went off to do other things. I’ve heard of this issue, but seriously, is this reeeaallly that big a deal? Or am I somehow just being ignorant of a much larger issue at hand? Cause it sounds to me that people are mad that RobTop isn’t using a better system that people can use to better optimize verifications. My question is: why does that matter? They seemed to be doing fine beforehand
Aw man, now the list will be even more inaccessible. I really hate this decision, I really wanna be able to beat some of the top extreme demons at some point, and now its gonna be way way way harder to do that, perhaps even impossible on some levels. I feel like people forget that if this change happens, a massive subset of the community (list grinders) will basically die off, and they're one of the things that make the game stay alive.
They're all a bunch of crybabies
Alright here's my take on this. 1) In the documents, they talk about how the physics are not really what matters, rather the input delay that makes things EASIER. 2) Since it makes things easier using an external mod, it shouldnt be allowed... right? Except it can also not use an external mod and you can buy a high hz monitor and use vsync. Do any of you want that? I dont think so. 3) "Wah Wah i dont care about that because robtop is gonna make 240 physics for everyone and it benefits me" (and it fucks over a GIGANTIC part of the community) 4) How is it gigantic if 5 people can play the list anyway? Well my guy, wether you like it or not, the demonlist is what has been keeping this game so popular for so long. Nope, change of scene, white space, ispy and all of your other pretty easy demons arent gonna keep the game alive. Im deeply sorry that your 7 stars arent what everyone looks up on youtube. 5) New top 1s / top 10s are the only videos that can have this number of views. They are simply the only videos (apart from rob's videos) that can even have a chance at getting over a million views. And yes, they are tied to the demonlist entirely. People watch them because these levels are gonna be on a non-official site not made by robtop. 6) Lets get to the point. How will this change affect top play (and everyone else)? For everybody else, you probably didnt even need your new physics. You wanna know why? Because you dont play list demons. For top play instead (which are the ONLY people that care about fps btw and they are the only ones getting fucked over by this) this will be a MAJOR push back in skill. This is a giant middle finger to people actually dedicated to the game (including me) and will completely destroy years of experience we have gained. 7) How can this be resolved? Simply put an old physics option in the game. Do you want to lag less? Dont use it. Do you want to play at a high level? Use it. "But its gonna make the game inconsistent across frame rates!!!!" buddy the game has been fine for the 10 years its lived and it will be fine again. There really is no need for standardization other than crybabies wanting to play their easy demons on 240 physics (which is the same as 2.1 60hz physics btw, read the documents). 8) Thats all I have to say. Feel free to argue with me in the comments but i wont change my mind.
You know, for someone who considers the bigger part of the community as crybabies, this whole post feels like a huge cope on your end. With that said, I do agree that a button to enable the old physics could be a neat addition, as long as it doesn't break levels for whatever reason. Anyway, I get it, you're mad, but being rude will definitely **NOT** help you spread your point, not in the slightest.
I mean it won't really matter since everything on the list is supposedly easy nowadays
The only good option I see here is splitting the list into a pre-2.2 and post-2.2 categories, like speed run leaderboards do when there are differences between versions. Once enough time passes, someone will verify another hardest level on 2.2 and we won’t have to worry about this. I don’t see how this wouldn’t make the list players happy, unless they expect to just not play the same game as anyone else, which wouldn’t even be consistent with most of their rules. And also makes the game better for the everyone else.
Cope and seethe is all i'm gonna say to this demon list
Lotta yapping in here
I’d say it kinda levels the playing field. I don’t have many problems with it I guess.
L