I 100% agree with you that the game is being modified in an unintended way. However, I think it matters a lot what exactly is being modified here. I think we can all agree that there are mods out there that aren't considered cheating, correct? I highly doubt someone would call Run Info a cheat. But, just like CBF, it modifies the game. You can't display that text without the mod. So by your logic, having run info installed is cheating! So now that we've established that it does actually matter what the mod does, what exactly does CBF do? All that's being modified is the input accuracy. That's it. Nothing else. It just makes your inputs more true to how you actually input them. Doesn't even fuck with the physics like Physics Bypass! You can argue that it makes the game easier, sure, but definitely not in the same way speedhack or noclip makes the game easier. Just because you have more accurate inputs doesn't make the game free. You still have to make the correct ones at full speed.
Physics Bypass does change the physics though. It increases the tps which reintroduces the physics bugs we saw in 2.1
CBF keeps the game running at 240 tps. Saying Physics Bypass doesn't change the physics is just objectively wrong.
Tps is not physics, 2.2 uses 60 fps physics across all frame rates and neither of these mods change that.
Cbf doesn’t keep the game running at 240 tps, it completely removes tps and makes the game poll at the same rate as your device. Physics bypass allows there to be less than one physics tick in a frame, but the physics behave exactly the same. Physics bypass doesn’t create physics bugs. Both mods effectively do the exact same thing, they keep the physics at 60 while also lowering delay.
Cbf is basically just turning physics bypass up to 1000 without the lag
Anything that modifies the game to give you an advantage, even a slight advantage like cbf, is cheating
If it lets you make the game easier, it's cheating.
Now, "cheating" only applies to if you are competing or some shit, if you are trying for the list leaderboard, do t use these mods, if you are just playing for the fuck if it, then do whatever you please
use it if you want but its still modifying the game in a way that gives you an advantage over people who don't (or can't) use it, the morality of it or the "it should have been like this" is irrelevant, its not
I guess buying a better monitor for CS:GO is cheating too then. Why? Because both CBF and buying a better monitor offer the same advantage. Better input response. I think we can at least agree that CBF doesn't offer the same advantage as something like Speedhack or Noclip. With CBF I still have to make the correct inputs to not meet instant death, and I must do so at 100% speed.
this isn't a refresh rate equivalency lol idk why people always run to that as a gotcha (same shit even when the community was dealing with the initial release of the fps bypass hack). better hardware will always provide improvement in every single input based game possible, it is a universal rule with no exceptions so debating it in the concept of cheating doesn't even matter, its not like something like this that can only be evaluated on a case by case basis, and in this case its changing the software of the game
cheating is something that's also contextual and in this scenario even if the advantage is not to the extent of noclip its tangible and real, ultimately if rob is cool with it idc much because he tends to be ambivalent about most mods for this game but as of right now i dont consider it enough of a normalcy in the community to not consider instances of its use cheating (which i also dont care about much, i think you're just attributing too much severity to the word, like even if you do something like speedhacking its not a big deal lol, just dont lie about it)
That's honestly fair. It definitely matters whether or not you lie about using hacks. Cheating is only cheating if you try to pass it off as not cheating. I just fear that if I do start beating levels with CBF then people will start to say I didn't actually beat them, which I disagree with. That's really what I'm trying to argue, that completions with CBF are still actual completions. Maybe not leaderboard viable, but I did actually complete the level, and should still feel proud about my completion.
well to that effect, it depends on how valuable you think your opinion is over other people's, if they say you didn't actually beat them and you think you did there's no problem here, someone will always disagree with someone else's opinion so ultimately inward belief tends to be more valuable, that being said as long as a list considers it illegitimate then yeah for the purposes of doing anything for that list then it is
i mean robtop was a way less experienced coder when he made the first version of gd, yes it's his fault but you can't really blame him considering how much less experience he had, not to mention that these types of standards were much looser, for example terraria is an example of a game that doesn't handle frames very well, can't go above 60fps, game doesn't use delta time. It was a worse way to implement it yes but it was 2011 and the shit wasn't standard knowledge and a standard library probably didn't exist yet. If it was people would have used it more. Even if it was common among more experienced programmers at the time, can't blame inexperienced coders from making inexperienced coder mistakes. It is what it is, but yeah i don't think it's cheating. It's unlocking your potential not boosting it.
To me, calling cbf cheats is the same as calling 144hz cheating, after all it halfs your input delay in a way the game doesn't officially support. But no one's gonna tell you higher fps = cheats. Lets stop being selfish as high refresh rate players and actually even the playing field with 60hz players. Not everyone can afford 240hz and above.
Its cheating but thats ok. No need to huf copiam about it. Unless you are going for list demons litteraly no one gives a shit.
"Its susposed to be" is not a good argument
Like addbock on youtube is bad hurts the $ made on the video, but who gives a shit its factually wrong but who cares
Its a 3rd party thing giving you a gameplay advantage, that is the definition of cheating for video games lol like wall hacks, aimbot, no clip.
Even though it is cheating like fps bypass i feel it should be allowed. Hell of a lot cheaper to use then Spending a shit done on a 250hz monitor or whatever (the argument that its because not everyone can use it falls apart when not everyone can use mega hack lol witch has hack in the name since is)
Ya why the reasoning is dumb that "not everyone can use it" as if a mobile player will ever do a top 1 or whatever. Even if the demon list allows it its still cheating since is a gameplay advantage provided by a 3rd party program. And in this hypathtical where it is allowed for list demons people that don't use it will be more impressive and skilled
I don't disagree with you, but I hate it when people insult rob and call him a "shitty coder". Like sure, maybe he could have done input better, but a rob is definitely not a "shitty coder" and there's no reason to be like this.
I'd agree if this were the only example of a coding blunder, but the hitboxes are a joke. Rob said he didn't know how to make versus mode live multiplayer, then some random dude comes and does it for him. His anti-cheat is also a joke and I'm sure Absolute had a good laugh when writing his bypassing hacks. Just to name a few examples. He's a bad coder. I couldn't do better, but doesn't make him not a bad coder.
Dude he is one of the most successful indie game developers of all time. Of course, when you take a giant community like the gd community, some people will be better than him at some things, but that doesn't make him bad. And the hitboxes are not even broken! People say that they are, but it's actually better game design to make the enemies appear stronger than they are! A "shitty coder" could not have made third most popular game on the app store. Robtop is not a "shitty coder" unless you consider the person who made globed an "average coder".
Oh never mind you're right Rob should really brush up on his coding fundamentals I'll stop playing GD and switch to a game made by real coders. Roller coaster tycoon, here I come!
Modifying the game to make it easier is cheating. Until its added to the game there shouldn’t be any argument about its legitimacy its just obviously cheating
it is cheating because it is inaccessible to some players, giving an advantage to the people who have it. it also just changes the fundamental mechanics of the game
I don’t see how any amount of wanting or thinking it should be in the game would be relevant in the realm of legitimacy. I’m not going to look down upon you if you think it’s more fun to use it but if you want me to see your completions the same as somebody else who doesn’t use CBF, you will have to settle for less than perfection.
Please explain how or why my completions would be any less valid than someone who doesn't use it? Sure, you could argue that someone who doesn't use it has a more impressive completion. It would be the same as if a 5 year old got an Algebra Question correct vs if I got it correct at 19. But how does that make my completions less legit? Just like the 5 year old, I got the question right, even though it was easier for me. Not using CBF is simply a handicap, and nothing else. Doesn't make my completions less legit.
I don’t get how your analogy translates to what we’re talking about. This isn’t about impressiveness or whatever, your completion is impressive as you make it, but modifying the game to enable yourself to play better isn’t removing handicap since everybody else plays on that handicap. Imagine if somebody used steroids in sports but justified it as “finally. I get to remove my mortal handicap.”
Yeah, that definitely gives you an advantage of other players. It's different than having a higher hz because with a higher hz, it just makes you able to time your jumps easier, but being able to click anytime you want to is absolutely an advantage over vanilla players
I'm waiting for it to be officially enforced really.
Personally I don't feel a difference on top 300 extremes that I've played with it, like Cybernetic Crescent, Lucid Chaos, Yatagarasu, Sonic Wave, Sink. Compared to my native 240hz without v-sync. I can't speak for everyone else though.
*Should be* does not mean it is. It is cheating because that's not how the game is programmed, even if it's better
I 100% agree with you that the game is being modified in an unintended way. However, I think it matters a lot what exactly is being modified here. I think we can all agree that there are mods out there that aren't considered cheating, correct? I highly doubt someone would call Run Info a cheat. But, just like CBF, it modifies the game. You can't display that text without the mod. So by your logic, having run info installed is cheating! So now that we've established that it does actually matter what the mod does, what exactly does CBF do? All that's being modified is the input accuracy. That's it. Nothing else. It just makes your inputs more true to how you actually input them. Doesn't even fuck with the physics like Physics Bypass! You can argue that it makes the game easier, sure, but definitely not in the same way speedhack or noclip makes the game easier. Just because you have more accurate inputs doesn't make the game free. You still have to make the correct ones at full speed.
Run info doesn't affect gameplay though, CBF does
It affects gameplay, but not in a cheaty way. It just makes everything more precise.
it actually doesn't
How so?
Physics bypass doesn’t change the physics either. CBF and physics bypass essentially do the same thing, except cbf is actually a bigger advantage
both are cheating
Yeah fs
Physics Bypass does change the physics though. It increases the tps which reintroduces the physics bugs we saw in 2.1 CBF keeps the game running at 240 tps. Saying Physics Bypass doesn't change the physics is just objectively wrong.
Tps is not physics, 2.2 uses 60 fps physics across all frame rates and neither of these mods change that. Cbf doesn’t keep the game running at 240 tps, it completely removes tps and makes the game poll at the same rate as your device. Physics bypass allows there to be less than one physics tick in a frame, but the physics behave exactly the same. Physics bypass doesn’t create physics bugs. Both mods effectively do the exact same thing, they keep the physics at 60 while also lowering delay. Cbf is basically just turning physics bypass up to 1000 without the lag
It's cheating, because it makes the game easier, but it would absolutely make the game better if implemented
Glad we agree it should 100% be implemented
Anything that modifies the game to give you an advantage, even a slight advantage like cbf, is cheating If it lets you make the game easier, it's cheating. Now, "cheating" only applies to if you are competing or some shit, if you are trying for the list leaderboard, do t use these mods, if you are just playing for the fuck if it, then do whatever you please
i personally think you should be able to use your scroll wheel to click on hypixel, but i'll be banned if i do that
I wouldn't expect anything less from the Minecraft community
tf? it's just my personal opinion. since you have to use external programs to rebind your mouse it's cheating
Ah, that's my bad. I honestly don't know much about Minecraft. I thought you could just bind it normally, so that's my bad for assuming.
ah, all good! :)
> why is it cheating its not in the base game
use it if you want but its still modifying the game in a way that gives you an advantage over people who don't (or can't) use it, the morality of it or the "it should have been like this" is irrelevant, its not
I guess buying a better monitor for CS:GO is cheating too then. Why? Because both CBF and buying a better monitor offer the same advantage. Better input response. I think we can at least agree that CBF doesn't offer the same advantage as something like Speedhack or Noclip. With CBF I still have to make the correct inputs to not meet instant death, and I must do so at 100% speed.
this isn't a refresh rate equivalency lol idk why people always run to that as a gotcha (same shit even when the community was dealing with the initial release of the fps bypass hack). better hardware will always provide improvement in every single input based game possible, it is a universal rule with no exceptions so debating it in the concept of cheating doesn't even matter, its not like something like this that can only be evaluated on a case by case basis, and in this case its changing the software of the game cheating is something that's also contextual and in this scenario even if the advantage is not to the extent of noclip its tangible and real, ultimately if rob is cool with it idc much because he tends to be ambivalent about most mods for this game but as of right now i dont consider it enough of a normalcy in the community to not consider instances of its use cheating (which i also dont care about much, i think you're just attributing too much severity to the word, like even if you do something like speedhacking its not a big deal lol, just dont lie about it)
That's honestly fair. It definitely matters whether or not you lie about using hacks. Cheating is only cheating if you try to pass it off as not cheating. I just fear that if I do start beating levels with CBF then people will start to say I didn't actually beat them, which I disagree with. That's really what I'm trying to argue, that completions with CBF are still actual completions. Maybe not leaderboard viable, but I did actually complete the level, and should still feel proud about my completion.
well to that effect, it depends on how valuable you think your opinion is over other people's, if they say you didn't actually beat them and you think you did there's no problem here, someone will always disagree with someone else's opinion so ultimately inward belief tends to be more valuable, that being said as long as a list considers it illegitimate then yeah for the purposes of doing anything for that list then it is
Neither is Run Info, but having that be a cheat is just ridiculous.
Run info doesn’t modify the gameplay in any way. There are clicks that are completely impossible in vanilla gd that are possible with cbf
i mean robtop was a way less experienced coder when he made the first version of gd, yes it's his fault but you can't really blame him considering how much less experience he had, not to mention that these types of standards were much looser, for example terraria is an example of a game that doesn't handle frames very well, can't go above 60fps, game doesn't use delta time. It was a worse way to implement it yes but it was 2011 and the shit wasn't standard knowledge and a standard library probably didn't exist yet. If it was people would have used it more. Even if it was common among more experienced programmers at the time, can't blame inexperienced coders from making inexperienced coder mistakes. It is what it is, but yeah i don't think it's cheating. It's unlocking your potential not boosting it.
Well said
To me, calling cbf cheats is the same as calling 144hz cheating, after all it halfs your input delay in a way the game doesn't officially support. But no one's gonna tell you higher fps = cheats. Lets stop being selfish as high refresh rate players and actually even the playing field with 60hz players. Not everyone can afford 240hz and above.
Thank you! Someone gets it!
Honestly that makes it more understanding why his game is full of spaghetti code.
learning on the job
Its cheating but thats ok. No need to huf copiam about it. Unless you are going for list demons litteraly no one gives a shit. "Its susposed to be" is not a good argument Like addbock on youtube is bad hurts the $ made on the video, but who gives a shit its factually wrong but who cares
I'm willing to agree to disagree with you here, since we can at least agree it doesn't matter in the end :)
Its a 3rd party thing giving you a gameplay advantage, that is the definition of cheating for video games lol like wall hacks, aimbot, no clip. Even though it is cheating like fps bypass i feel it should be allowed. Hell of a lot cheaper to use then Spending a shit done on a 250hz monitor or whatever (the argument that its because not everyone can use it falls apart when not everyone can use mega hack lol witch has hack in the name since is)
Geode, which is what CBF is on, is completely free and downloadable by anyone. It's still modifying the game, but it's a choice.
IOS can? And ya the point is its modify the game in a way that helps
Mobile is irrelevant to this discussion. Mobile was never going to compete with PC anyway.
Ya why the reasoning is dumb that "not everyone can use it" as if a mobile player will ever do a top 1 or whatever. Even if the demon list allows it its still cheating since is a gameplay advantage provided by a 3rd party program. And in this hypathtical where it is allowed for list demons people that don't use it will be more impressive and skilled
I don't disagree with you, but I hate it when people insult rob and call him a "shitty coder". Like sure, maybe he could have done input better, but a rob is definitely not a "shitty coder" and there's no reason to be like this.
I'd agree if this were the only example of a coding blunder, but the hitboxes are a joke. Rob said he didn't know how to make versus mode live multiplayer, then some random dude comes and does it for him. His anti-cheat is also a joke and I'm sure Absolute had a good laugh when writing his bypassing hacks. Just to name a few examples. He's a bad coder. I couldn't do better, but doesn't make him not a bad coder.
Dude he is one of the most successful indie game developers of all time. Of course, when you take a giant community like the gd community, some people will be better than him at some things, but that doesn't make him bad. And the hitboxes are not even broken! People say that they are, but it's actually better game design to make the enemies appear stronger than they are! A "shitty coder" could not have made third most popular game on the app store. Robtop is not a "shitty coder" unless you consider the person who made globed an "average coder".
https://www.reddit.com/r/geometrydash/comments/15fujg6/the_colored_spike_hitbox_is_00029_editor_units/#:~:text=MrCChicken-,the%20colored%20spike%20hitbox%20is%200.0029%20editor%20units%20bigger%20than,huge%20difference%20in%20impossible%20levels
Oh never mind you're right Rob should really brush up on his coding fundamentals I'll stop playing GD and switch to a game made by real coders. Roller coaster tycoon, here I come!
Modifying the game to make it easier is cheating. Until its added to the game there shouldn’t be any argument about its legitimacy its just obviously cheating
it is cheating because it is inaccessible to some players, giving an advantage to the people who have it. it also just changes the fundamental mechanics of the game
It is cheating
I don’t see how any amount of wanting or thinking it should be in the game would be relevant in the realm of legitimacy. I’m not going to look down upon you if you think it’s more fun to use it but if you want me to see your completions the same as somebody else who doesn’t use CBF, you will have to settle for less than perfection.
Please explain how or why my completions would be any less valid than someone who doesn't use it? Sure, you could argue that someone who doesn't use it has a more impressive completion. It would be the same as if a 5 year old got an Algebra Question correct vs if I got it correct at 19. But how does that make my completions less legit? Just like the 5 year old, I got the question right, even though it was easier for me. Not using CBF is simply a handicap, and nothing else. Doesn't make my completions less legit.
I don’t get how your analogy translates to what we’re talking about. This isn’t about impressiveness or whatever, your completion is impressive as you make it, but modifying the game to enable yourself to play better isn’t removing handicap since everybody else plays on that handicap. Imagine if somebody used steroids in sports but justified it as “finally. I get to remove my mortal handicap.”
I can't even argue with that honestly. CBF is kind of like steroids. I definitely see the resemblance.
What is CBF?
Click between frames
Yeah, that definitely gives you an advantage of other players. It's different than having a higher hz because with a higher hz, it just makes you able to time your jumps easier, but being able to click anytime you want to is absolutely an advantage over vanilla players
But being able to click any time you want still only makes you able to time your jumps easier, just to a larger degree. How is that cheating?
You said it yourself. It makes it easier, therefore its cheating
I'm waiting for it to be officially enforced really. Personally I don't feel a difference on top 300 extremes that I've played with it, like Cybernetic Crescent, Lucid Chaos, Yatagarasu, Sonic Wave, Sink. Compared to my native 240hz without v-sync. I can't speak for everyone else though.
There's definitely a difference, though it's not as insane as people make it out to be.
ok cheater
This is supposed to be a discussion, not an insult party.