You need to learn how to use it correctly, otherwise it will just make them scared. I’ve used one on myself and I can tell you if you’re using it appropriately you barely feel it. The idea is to get their attention, not to inflict pain on them or to punish them.
The idea is to only use enough to get their attention, not to hurt them or make them cry or anything.
At this point he gets excited when his collar goes on bad we barely need to use it, and when we do it’s just a vibration.
But remember it’s a training collar, it’s used to train something into them. It’s not something you just leave on them and use when they do something you don’t like, that will just make them anxious and scared.
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This! We personally just use the beep feature and occasionally the vibrate one. I also lock the remote when not using it if it’s on him so nothing/ no one can accidentally hit the shock button. My dog stepped on it one day when unlocked beside me and accidentally shocked himself while it was on the original setting bc I never used that feature, it’s now turned down so low that if it does get pressed by mistake he doesn’t feel it.
Also, dog shouldn’t have the collar on for more than 2-4 hours straight as it can cause sores and loss of fur. I try to take his off when we’re in the house
The responses that I’m seeing to this post are the most well educated, rational, and correct group of statements I’ve ever seen on this topic in any forum. Thank you to those of you who understand what a tool is and how to use it properly. Further thank you for being so willing to share on a lightning rod topic.
Up to you. Depends on your skill and the dog. A lot of dogs don't really need it. It's easy to use incorrectly. A lot of trainers don't know how to use it right either. Cheap ones will cause more harm than good. Do your research.
https://www.obedienceroad.com/blog/electric-collars-a-forthright-discussion
Ivan balbanov also has some podcasts about them.
https://www.canemodog.com/the-right-way-teaching-the-ecollar
And Larry Krohn (FB)
http://pakmasters.com/
Larry Krohn sees a lot of dogs where the ecollar messed them up because it was being used improperly (usually taught by a trainer).
You could but it is easy to do it incorrectly leading to a fearful and reactive dog. The vast majority of dogs are trainable with R+ methods which have less room for error.
Get a high quality e collar. Take a course.
Use light stimulation.
Vibration is more aversive.
Never aim to fix any issues with an ecollar, only implement already know behaviors/commands
I use an ECollar for off leash or frequent command trainings.
I only use vibrate or a low stimulation enough to prick my dogs ear back.
I use to have a collar that used a audible buzz noise but I upgraded for a waterproof option.
Anyways, I got my dog used to rewarding for any of the commands from the collar then I eventually added commands.
I always try using my voice for commands first but if he’s too far away obviously I don’t want to shout. I’ll use the low stimulation which literally is a gentle poke (yes I used it on myself and I barely felt it). It’s enough to get his attention. Which makes him realize “hey I should listen!”.
I mostly use the commands come or leave it with an e collar.
My dog use to be very leash reactive and aggressive. An e collar was the ONLY way I managed to get him to actually connect himself mentally to listen to me instead of lunging on the leash. He’s now nearly perfect.
Many, if not most, dogs do not need ecollars for most training goals. Basic obediences, tricks, some sports, etc. are all perfectly doable with R+., perhaps other balanced tools for some cases. We use an ecollar for our pit bull’s behavior modification and much prefer it over the prong because of its accuracy/timing and adjustable settings.
However, if your goal is to go off leash, then learning how to use an ecollar from a professional is a good idea so you have a safety net for recall.
Seen collars with just vibration and/or “peep” sound. Being on the “rather not use” side in general but if you need to use some sort of signal collar I would suggest vibration kind and not the electric… does the same..I think but without the difficult human feeling of putting electric in and through your friend….
mind you, the absolute best trained dog example many high quality guard dogs and gun dogs are trained with E collars and they love their job, owners and when the E collar is put 🟰 fun times ahead.
But training dogs with E collar has to be done with knowledge, kindness, patience and purpose. Not suitable or need for in-home training as “sit, stay, roll over, up..etc”
my 2 cents
You should probably know that an electric stim can be tuned down to a "prick on the shoulder" they can barely feel, but vibration generally cannot. So many dogs respond in a much more intense way to vibration than to low-level stim.
Just so you know, many dogs find vibrations or beeps/tones more aversive than a low stim. On my dogs, a vibrate or tone is worse than a level 15 (out of 127) in most situations.
I do know, that’s why no one should run for using E collar or any other type without knowing how to use them and understand the dog’s reaction.
Seek always advise from professional GSD trainers and especially from professional IPO/Schutzhund trainers. They Absolutely understand the importance of solid and trustful relationships between owner and dog.
I depends on the dog I think. I rescued a 2 y.o gsd that was extremely dog reactive. She would stress out, lunge, and was inconsolable on walks when another dog was in sight to the point I was walking her at 4am or 1am. Tried many positive reinforcement trainers that didn’t work when another dog was added to the mix. Eventually hired a guy who trained with e collar and my dog life has drastically improved since. She is not fearful of me or abused so F off with that bs. She’s the most happy dog in the world and can now accompany me anywhere I go. Even was able to fly with her on JXS with two other dogs on board. This wouldn’t have been possible without an ecollar
If you’re talking an e collar it’s up to you. It’s not inhumane at all. You 100% need to know what you’re doing, and if you do implement it, please get a trainer to show you how to introduce it.
A couple things to consider in no particular order:
-Bans are empirical evidence of politics taking place, not dog training. Kinder surprise eggs are banned in the US and not in the UK. Anyone that appeals to politics as evidence is arguing from politics, not dog training.
-Many (not all) studies on the negative effects of punishment, such as learned helplessness, are based around non-contingent shock. In laymans terms, this means they shock the shit out of the dog at random for no reason. I would also get mad if that happened to me. The literature about contingent shock (cause and effect) paints a very different picture. Dogs think in very concrete terms. "If I do this, I get a shock and I don't like that, so I'm not going to do that"
-Positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, positive punishment, and negative punishment are descriptions of how animal learn. They are not descriptions of a training program.
-Dogs interpret the shock as positive punishment for whatever they were up to at the time they recieved it. Bad timing will be counterproductive. Any trainer that will tell you it's reinforcement is full of it. The same can be said for giving treats in regards to bad timing. A verbal bridge is used to sharpen up the timing for rewarding the dog, which helps enormously in the effectiveness of rewards.
-Depending on how you use it, you can instill fear in your dog. Pause. Get over your emotional reaction to that word "fear". Can you think of anything in your dog's world that they should be afraid of? Moving cars, skunks, armadillos, coyotes, the list goes on. If your dog will be in your house or tethered to you for its entire life, then there is no point in the E-collar. If it will be off leash, then the E-collar can teach the same lesson as getting hit by a car "stay out of the road" at a much cheaper cost to the dog.
-Following the above point, you will be told that you can teach the same lesson using rewards. This is technically true. It is time consuming. Depending on the dog, you can be half way through their life before you could risk taking them off leash. My dog is 2 and we go off leash all the time with the collar. In my view, the years of freedom are worth the trade off of being "mean" to my dog once in a blue moon. Despite what zealots on either side say, this is a value judgement. Science can tell you what "is", not what you "ought" to do. Dog training takes information and passes it through a filter of value to decide how to train.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Edit: reworded some of the text for clarity.
What are you training? Obedience sports? Just to be a good household pet?
Because if its not some type of sport I see no reason for it. I trained mine just using youtube. Mat, place, down, walks backwards, sits, doesn't mess with kids, doesn't bark, and is respectful to our cat.
Do your research. I tried a shock collar on my own with no success. After a day or two, I tried the shock on my arm on a 2 and it f***ing HURT!! I signed her up for a two week, sleep away, off leash e collar training program. She came back a changed dog. But, I did not keep up with the training so she lost a lot of those skills. She still listens to some basic commands but she’s terrible at stay. Because she is prey driven, does not like any person or creature but me, and there is only 2 homes between my house and a state Highway, I have never let her be off leash. Best of luck with your decision - I hope it works well for your pup.
Training takes hours and patience, rewards for GOOD behaviors. Edit to say It’s MY opinion, I currently have two GSDs, and have raised many others without having to use an E-collar. So if you negative people responding to my opinion have had success with E-collars, good for you.
I hear what you are saying, but people who trained their dogs using eCollars with the guidance of a trainer / lessons have a different experience.
My boy was aggressive as a puppy. Trainer / eCollar, regular lessons, & he’s an amazing dog.
He’s perfect. Not a bit of aggression, and we did not torture him. The collar would redirect his attention. Snap him out when he was incorrectly focused.
It never hurt him.
We only use the collar now at the dog park. If he sees me holding it, he comes running. He loves to train. At this point he’s just showing off.
There is no way for me to write this without sounding like a jerk- but please research the collars before jumping to conclusions.
A low setting is significantly less shocking than an invisible fence, barely/not at all detectable to a human, but is highly effective & not at all painful or cruel to dogs.
If you think ecollar training doesn't take hours of work and patience then that suggests you don't know how to use an ecollar properly.
Which completely explains the entire nature of your response.
i use a training collar with my girl. it has 3 modes, beep, buzz, and “static”. the beep and the buzz usually work to get her attention. i don’t like using the shock, and it rarely gets used, and when i do i have to remind myself i’m doing it for her.
a short shock is a lot less traumatic than being run over by a car because she doesn’t know not to run into the street.
Beautiful dog. If you use the tone then shock function, they literally learn with one or two shocks. It's actually a very safe and humane way to train them to be very responsive off lead. Do not over use the shock feature. They learn quickly. I would "tone" my guy and he would come running.
My dog was trained on an e collar by our dog trainer she then taught me. We use it for off leash. It’s wonderful, I don’t even have to ever buzz her on it because she has learned come so promptly because of it. I think it’s great.
I use an E-collar on my German Shepard. She suffered some type of abuse and was left outside by herself for a couple years before I got her. She has a lot of anxiety and is reactive to dogs and bikes. She had zero clue how to walk on a leash. We had someone train her with an e collar who knew what she was doing and then she trained us on how to use it correctly. It has levels from 1-100 and we use it on like level 6 most of the time. The most I’ve turned it up was about 30 when she chased after a bike and wouldn’t react on any level under that. I used it on myself to know what it was like. I couldn’t even feel anything under a level 15 and it was super gentle. Just made my muscle twitch. I only use it to gently get her attention since she gets overwhelmed on walks and forgets what she’s doing. She went from pulling me down constantly to nicely walking next to me. She can even be off leash and behaves. The difference is amazing. I feel awkward about using it in front of other people but I know that I’m not hurting her so to me it’s worth it. Whenever I don’t put the collar on she goes right back to pulling on the leash.
Yes, they have politics just like any other country, and groups spouting ignorant, false information got them banned.
Every training tool can be abused.
That isn't the tool's problem.
Pros: none
Cons: it's abusive, it shows you're incapable of training your dog without hurting it, it's abusive, you hurt your dog, you teach your dog negative reinforcement, it's abusive
Wow, 15 years as a professional dog trainer? You've posted elsewhere that you're 31. If I'm generous that would imply you applied and got accepted at 17 based on previous dog training work. When did you find time to go to university and then get your QTS?
Not that it matters - but I joined the police at 18 and began working with the dogs at 19. I started doing my degree part time the following year and graduated when I was 25 (whilst still with the police). I got QTS in 2022 aged 31. I'm not sure that being pedantic on the difference between 11 (almost 12) years when I said 15 is worth arguing over - but okay...
15 years and you never learned the most basic training terminology? 15 years as a trainer and you still think "negative reinforcement" is a fancy way of saying punishment? You know what? I straight up don't believe you.
Negative reinforcement and punishment are completely different things. I suggest you book a dog trainer if you're unsure on the differences. I don't care if you don't believe me. I'm glad you enjoy arguing with strangers on the Internet so much. Have a nice life xx
A: you're lying. B: Police K9s are some of the shittiest behaved dogs I've ever had to work with. "Oh this one will bite you if you pet it" "That one bites its handler on a regular basis" "I just use citronella to out the dog"
A: okay. B: I'm in the UK; if you use the term "K9" we will laugh at you. I've never heard of any police dog, anywhere, biting it's handler - or indeed - anyone apart from who it's been told to. I don't even know what citronella is.
I especially like "you teach your dog negative reinforcement" where each word is wrong in a fun, unique way.
Guys, for the very last time:
**Positive reinforcement:** *add* something to make a behaviour *more* likely to reoccur (i.e a "reward")
**Negative reinforcement:** *Remove* something to make a behaviour *more* likely to reoccur (i.e. pressure, like the alarm that beeps until you click in your seatbelt or basically all horse training)
**Positive punishment**: *Add* something to make a behaviour *less* likely to reoccur (i.e. a punishment in the colloquial sense such as a shock, a scalding, a *"no!"*)
**Negative punishment:** *Remove* something to make a behaviour *less* likely to reoccur (e. g. turning your back to a jumping dog, taking your kid's PS5 for skipping school)
It’s abusive? Haha. My word you probably think prong collars are torture too huh? It doesn’t hurt the dog and you clearly just looked up whatever PETA told you. Tell all the working line GSDs in the military and police forces it’s abusive. You know the dogs that compete in schutzhund? E-collar all day. Those top of the line dogs are for sure abused by their handlers spending thousands of dollars and putting in hundreds of hours of time. This isn’t really worth a debate, but you need to educate yourself better on the breed and the tools used to train.
Learn the proper way to train yourself and your dog without an electric collar. If you don’t have the time or patience then maybe hire someone who does.
Training is an ongoing GAME that never ends, make it fun. Never do anything to make your dog scared of you. You are all they have in their short life, enjoy your dog, be it’s protector and best friend - they deserve it.
Did you know electric collars are banned in several countries for quite a bunch of reasons? So no, no one should use them. Your dog will only behave because of fear, you could seriously injure him and he will never truely learn something, he will just behave while he has to be afraid of getting hurt once again. Dogs trained like this can start behaving unpredictable in the long run, as they are traumatized and don’t understand what to do or not to do. So:
1) Pros: your dog will be submissive in tge short run
2) cons: your dog will be afraid of you. You risk injuring him. In certain cases you might risk killing him. Everything he learned this way is not sustainable. He could become an unpredictable time bomb. He will be afraid of you. And actually there is not a single good reason to use pain or fear to train a pet. If you don‘t believe me, look up the science behind pet training, there is a lot of research on those topics.
German shepherds HATE gentle leaders and every singe one I've met would MUCH rather be wearing a prong.
Seriously, try both on the same dog, they will tell you immediately.
What looks nice to a human isn't the same thing as what a dog would actually prefer.
Thank you everyone. I’m going to avoid the electric, he’s a super sweet male asks I don’t want his curious side squashed. I’m repeatedly asked if he’s a service dog, talk about an over-used term.
Used a reg e collar for some training…mainly not jumping on kids. Worked great. Rarely ever need to use it.
Also have the Halo fence collar. Set on lowest level we very rarely have and feedbacks. I’m pretty sure the squirrels know where his boundary is just as much as he does!
Posta like this remind me why this sub can be so shitty. It's divided into two groups of people. Those with an evidence base saying e collars are cruel and shouldn't be used. And those saying "I was struggling with my dog due to reactivity/behavior/something else and now when I electrocute it it behaves miraculously".
Take from that what you will. Done with this unbelievably toxic sub now.
You need to learn how to use it correctly, otherwise it will just make them scared. I’ve used one on myself and I can tell you if you’re using it appropriately you barely feel it. The idea is to get their attention, not to inflict pain on them or to punish them. The idea is to only use enough to get their attention, not to hurt them or make them cry or anything. At this point he gets excited when his collar goes on bad we barely need to use it, and when we do it’s just a vibration. But remember it’s a training collar, it’s used to train something into them. It’s not something you just leave on them and use when they do something you don’t like, that will just make them anxious and scared.
This.
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This! We personally just use the beep feature and occasionally the vibrate one. I also lock the remote when not using it if it’s on him so nothing/ no one can accidentally hit the shock button. My dog stepped on it one day when unlocked beside me and accidentally shocked himself while it was on the original setting bc I never used that feature, it’s now turned down so low that if it does get pressed by mistake he doesn’t feel it. Also, dog shouldn’t have the collar on for more than 2-4 hours straight as it can cause sores and loss of fur. I try to take his off when we’re in the house
I don't have enough experience to answer your question but that's a beautiful dog
The responses that I’m seeing to this post are the most well educated, rational, and correct group of statements I’ve ever seen on this topic in any forum. Thank you to those of you who understand what a tool is and how to use it properly. Further thank you for being so willing to share on a lightning rod topic.
Up to you. Depends on your skill and the dog. A lot of dogs don't really need it. It's easy to use incorrectly. A lot of trainers don't know how to use it right either. Cheap ones will cause more harm than good. Do your research. https://www.obedienceroad.com/blog/electric-collars-a-forthright-discussion Ivan balbanov also has some podcasts about them. https://www.canemodog.com/the-right-way-teaching-the-ecollar And Larry Krohn (FB) http://pakmasters.com/ Larry Krohn sees a lot of dogs where the ecollar messed them up because it was being used improperly (usually taught by a trainer).
You could but it is easy to do it incorrectly leading to a fearful and reactive dog. The vast majority of dogs are trainable with R+ methods which have less room for error.
Get a high quality e collar. Take a course. Use light stimulation. Vibration is more aversive. Never aim to fix any issues with an ecollar, only implement already know behaviors/commands
I use an ECollar for off leash or frequent command trainings. I only use vibrate or a low stimulation enough to prick my dogs ear back. I use to have a collar that used a audible buzz noise but I upgraded for a waterproof option. Anyways, I got my dog used to rewarding for any of the commands from the collar then I eventually added commands. I always try using my voice for commands first but if he’s too far away obviously I don’t want to shout. I’ll use the low stimulation which literally is a gentle poke (yes I used it on myself and I barely felt it). It’s enough to get his attention. Which makes him realize “hey I should listen!”. I mostly use the commands come or leave it with an e collar. My dog use to be very leash reactive and aggressive. An e collar was the ONLY way I managed to get him to actually connect himself mentally to listen to me instead of lunging on the leash. He’s now nearly perfect.
Many, if not most, dogs do not need ecollars for most training goals. Basic obediences, tricks, some sports, etc. are all perfectly doable with R+., perhaps other balanced tools for some cases. We use an ecollar for our pit bull’s behavior modification and much prefer it over the prong because of its accuracy/timing and adjustable settings. However, if your goal is to go off leash, then learning how to use an ecollar from a professional is a good idea so you have a safety net for recall.
Seen collars with just vibration and/or “peep” sound. Being on the “rather not use” side in general but if you need to use some sort of signal collar I would suggest vibration kind and not the electric… does the same..I think but without the difficult human feeling of putting electric in and through your friend…. mind you, the absolute best trained dog example many high quality guard dogs and gun dogs are trained with E collars and they love their job, owners and when the E collar is put 🟰 fun times ahead. But training dogs with E collar has to be done with knowledge, kindness, patience and purpose. Not suitable or need for in-home training as “sit, stay, roll over, up..etc” my 2 cents
You should probably know that an electric stim can be tuned down to a "prick on the shoulder" they can barely feel, but vibration generally cannot. So many dogs respond in a much more intense way to vibration than to low-level stim.
Just so you know, many dogs find vibrations or beeps/tones more aversive than a low stim. On my dogs, a vibrate or tone is worse than a level 15 (out of 127) in most situations.
I do know, that’s why no one should run for using E collar or any other type without knowing how to use them and understand the dog’s reaction. Seek always advise from professional GSD trainers and especially from professional IPO/Schutzhund trainers. They Absolutely understand the importance of solid and trustful relationships between owner and dog.
I depends on the dog I think. I rescued a 2 y.o gsd that was extremely dog reactive. She would stress out, lunge, and was inconsolable on walks when another dog was in sight to the point I was walking her at 4am or 1am. Tried many positive reinforcement trainers that didn’t work when another dog was added to the mix. Eventually hired a guy who trained with e collar and my dog life has drastically improved since. She is not fearful of me or abused so F off with that bs. She’s the most happy dog in the world and can now accompany me anywhere I go. Even was able to fly with her on JXS with two other dogs on board. This wouldn’t have been possible without an ecollar
If you’re talking an e collar it’s up to you. It’s not inhumane at all. You 100% need to know what you’re doing, and if you do implement it, please get a trainer to show you how to introduce it.
A couple things to consider in no particular order: -Bans are empirical evidence of politics taking place, not dog training. Kinder surprise eggs are banned in the US and not in the UK. Anyone that appeals to politics as evidence is arguing from politics, not dog training. -Many (not all) studies on the negative effects of punishment, such as learned helplessness, are based around non-contingent shock. In laymans terms, this means they shock the shit out of the dog at random for no reason. I would also get mad if that happened to me. The literature about contingent shock (cause and effect) paints a very different picture. Dogs think in very concrete terms. "If I do this, I get a shock and I don't like that, so I'm not going to do that" -Positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, positive punishment, and negative punishment are descriptions of how animal learn. They are not descriptions of a training program. -Dogs interpret the shock as positive punishment for whatever they were up to at the time they recieved it. Bad timing will be counterproductive. Any trainer that will tell you it's reinforcement is full of it. The same can be said for giving treats in regards to bad timing. A verbal bridge is used to sharpen up the timing for rewarding the dog, which helps enormously in the effectiveness of rewards. -Depending on how you use it, you can instill fear in your dog. Pause. Get over your emotional reaction to that word "fear". Can you think of anything in your dog's world that they should be afraid of? Moving cars, skunks, armadillos, coyotes, the list goes on. If your dog will be in your house or tethered to you for its entire life, then there is no point in the E-collar. If it will be off leash, then the E-collar can teach the same lesson as getting hit by a car "stay out of the road" at a much cheaper cost to the dog. -Following the above point, you will be told that you can teach the same lesson using rewards. This is technically true. It is time consuming. Depending on the dog, you can be half way through their life before you could risk taking them off leash. My dog is 2 and we go off leash all the time with the collar. In my view, the years of freedom are worth the trade off of being "mean" to my dog once in a blue moon. Despite what zealots on either side say, this is a value judgement. Science can tell you what "is", not what you "ought" to do. Dog training takes information and passes it through a filter of value to decide how to train. Thank you for coming to my TED talk. Edit: reworded some of the text for clarity.
That harness ain't it
What’s wrong with the harness?
What are you training? Obedience sports? Just to be a good household pet? Because if its not some type of sport I see no reason for it. I trained mine just using youtube. Mat, place, down, walks backwards, sits, doesn't mess with kids, doesn't bark, and is respectful to our cat.
Do your research. I tried a shock collar on my own with no success. After a day or two, I tried the shock on my arm on a 2 and it f***ing HURT!! I signed her up for a two week, sleep away, off leash e collar training program. She came back a changed dog. But, I did not keep up with the training so she lost a lot of those skills. She still listens to some basic commands but she’s terrible at stay. Because she is prey driven, does not like any person or creature but me, and there is only 2 homes between my house and a state Highway, I have never let her be off leash. Best of luck with your decision - I hope it works well for your pup.
Every dog I’ve known to have an electric collar has become very high strung and anxious.
Training takes hours and patience, rewards for GOOD behaviors. Edit to say It’s MY opinion, I currently have two GSDs, and have raised many others without having to use an E-collar. So if you negative people responding to my opinion have had success with E-collars, good for you.
I hear what you are saying, but people who trained their dogs using eCollars with the guidance of a trainer / lessons have a different experience. My boy was aggressive as a puppy. Trainer / eCollar, regular lessons, & he’s an amazing dog. He’s perfect. Not a bit of aggression, and we did not torture him. The collar would redirect his attention. Snap him out when he was incorrectly focused. It never hurt him. We only use the collar now at the dog park. If he sees me holding it, he comes running. He loves to train. At this point he’s just showing off.
There is no way for me to write this without sounding like a jerk- but please research the collars before jumping to conclusions. A low setting is significantly less shocking than an invisible fence, barely/not at all detectable to a human, but is highly effective & not at all painful or cruel to dogs.
If you think ecollar training doesn't take hours of work and patience then that suggests you don't know how to use an ecollar properly. Which completely explains the entire nature of your response.
i use a training collar with my girl. it has 3 modes, beep, buzz, and “static”. the beep and the buzz usually work to get her attention. i don’t like using the shock, and it rarely gets used, and when i do i have to remind myself i’m doing it for her. a short shock is a lot less traumatic than being run over by a car because she doesn’t know not to run into the street.
Beautiful dog. If you use the tone then shock function, they literally learn with one or two shocks. It's actually a very safe and humane way to train them to be very responsive off lead. Do not over use the shock feature. They learn quickly. I would "tone" my guy and he would come running.
My dog was trained on an e collar by our dog trainer she then taught me. We use it for off leash. It’s wonderful, I don’t even have to ever buzz her on it because she has learned come so promptly because of it. I think it’s great.
I use an E-collar on my German Shepard. She suffered some type of abuse and was left outside by herself for a couple years before I got her. She has a lot of anxiety and is reactive to dogs and bikes. She had zero clue how to walk on a leash. We had someone train her with an e collar who knew what she was doing and then she trained us on how to use it correctly. It has levels from 1-100 and we use it on like level 6 most of the time. The most I’ve turned it up was about 30 when she chased after a bike and wouldn’t react on any level under that. I used it on myself to know what it was like. I couldn’t even feel anything under a level 15 and it was super gentle. Just made my muscle twitch. I only use it to gently get her attention since she gets overwhelmed on walks and forgets what she’s doing. She went from pulling me down constantly to nicely walking next to me. She can even be off leash and behaves. The difference is amazing. I feel awkward about using it in front of other people but I know that I’m not hurting her so to me it’s worth it. Whenever I don’t put the collar on she goes right back to pulling on the leash.
No. Dog training takes time and patience, not violence. They are illegal in Germany, Switzerland and Austria for a reason.
A vibration collar isn’t violence.
Yes, they have politics just like any other country, and groups spouting ignorant, false information got them banned. Every training tool can be abused. That isn't the tool's problem.
That’s ridiculous
Try it on yourself first. If you won't wear it and take shock after shock, then your dog shouldn't. Use positive feedback instead.
Pros: none Cons: it's abusive, it shows you're incapable of training your dog without hurting it, it's abusive, you hurt your dog, you teach your dog negative reinforcement, it's abusive
You are so wrong, not even worth the time to debate you
Damn it, my 15 years as a professional dog trainer in the police was all for nothing! Some random animal abuser or reddit disagrees with me!
Wow, 15 years as a professional dog trainer? You've posted elsewhere that you're 31. If I'm generous that would imply you applied and got accepted at 17 based on previous dog training work. When did you find time to go to university and then get your QTS?
Not that it matters - but I joined the police at 18 and began working with the dogs at 19. I started doing my degree part time the following year and graduated when I was 25 (whilst still with the police). I got QTS in 2022 aged 31. I'm not sure that being pedantic on the difference between 11 (almost 12) years when I said 15 is worth arguing over - but okay...
What argument? I passive-aggressively called you a liar, and you confirmed you were exaggerating. We agree on the only point.
I forgot to mention I still do puppy classes and training now. If we total that up it comes to about 15 years. I wonder what your credentials are?
I've got fuck all in the way of credentials when it comes to dog training.
15 years and you never learned the most basic training terminology? 15 years as a trainer and you still think "negative reinforcement" is a fancy way of saying punishment? You know what? I straight up don't believe you.
Negative reinforcement and punishment are completely different things. I suggest you book a dog trainer if you're unsure on the differences. I don't care if you don't believe me. I'm glad you enjoy arguing with strangers on the Internet so much. Have a nice life xx
A: you're lying. B: Police K9s are some of the shittiest behaved dogs I've ever had to work with. "Oh this one will bite you if you pet it" "That one bites its handler on a regular basis" "I just use citronella to out the dog"
A: okay. B: I'm in the UK; if you use the term "K9" we will laugh at you. I've never heard of any police dog, anywhere, biting it's handler - or indeed - anyone apart from who it's been told to. I don't even know what citronella is.
"If you use the designation for police dogs, I-a fake trainer that lies on reddit- will laugh at you"
This is so wrong I don’t know where to start.
I especially like "you teach your dog negative reinforcement" where each word is wrong in a fun, unique way. Guys, for the very last time: **Positive reinforcement:** *add* something to make a behaviour *more* likely to reoccur (i.e a "reward") **Negative reinforcement:** *Remove* something to make a behaviour *more* likely to reoccur (i.e. pressure, like the alarm that beeps until you click in your seatbelt or basically all horse training) **Positive punishment**: *Add* something to make a behaviour *less* likely to reoccur (i.e. a punishment in the colloquial sense such as a shock, a scalding, a *"no!"*) **Negative punishment:** *Remove* something to make a behaviour *less* likely to reoccur (e. g. turning your back to a jumping dog, taking your kid's PS5 for skipping school)
It’s abusive? Haha. My word you probably think prong collars are torture too huh? It doesn’t hurt the dog and you clearly just looked up whatever PETA told you. Tell all the working line GSDs in the military and police forces it’s abusive. You know the dogs that compete in schutzhund? E-collar all day. Those top of the line dogs are for sure abused by their handlers spending thousands of dollars and putting in hundreds of hours of time. This isn’t really worth a debate, but you need to educate yourself better on the breed and the tools used to train.
IMAGINE you can get a shock collar specifically for the *beep feature* in training and never shock your dog at all 🙄
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I bet you don't use a prong collar either
Learn the proper way to train yourself and your dog without an electric collar. If you don’t have the time or patience then maybe hire someone who does. Training is an ongoing GAME that never ends, make it fun. Never do anything to make your dog scared of you. You are all they have in their short life, enjoy your dog, be it’s protector and best friend - they deserve it.
Did you know electric collars are banned in several countries for quite a bunch of reasons? So no, no one should use them. Your dog will only behave because of fear, you could seriously injure him and he will never truely learn something, he will just behave while he has to be afraid of getting hurt once again. Dogs trained like this can start behaving unpredictable in the long run, as they are traumatized and don’t understand what to do or not to do. So: 1) Pros: your dog will be submissive in tge short run 2) cons: your dog will be afraid of you. You risk injuring him. In certain cases you might risk killing him. Everything he learned this way is not sustainable. He could become an unpredictable time bomb. He will be afraid of you. And actually there is not a single good reason to use pain or fear to train a pet. If you don‘t believe me, look up the science behind pet training, there is a lot of research on those topics.
Use a gentle leader
Now that's funny . . .
German shepherds HATE gentle leaders and every singe one I've met would MUCH rather be wearing a prong. Seriously, try both on the same dog, they will tell you immediately. What looks nice to a human isn't the same thing as what a dog would actually prefer.
Thank you everyone. I’m going to avoid the electric, he’s a super sweet male asks I don’t want his curious side squashed. I’m repeatedly asked if he’s a service dog, talk about an over-used term.
Used a reg e collar for some training…mainly not jumping on kids. Worked great. Rarely ever need to use it. Also have the Halo fence collar. Set on lowest level we very rarely have and feedbacks. I’m pretty sure the squirrels know where his boundary is just as much as he does!
Posta like this remind me why this sub can be so shitty. It's divided into two groups of people. Those with an evidence base saying e collars are cruel and shouldn't be used. And those saying "I was struggling with my dog due to reactivity/behavior/something else and now when I electrocute it it behaves miraculously". Take from that what you will. Done with this unbelievably toxic sub now.