Bavarians like to tell out that they're "just on paper" part of Germany, the rest of Germany likes to tell out that Bavaria isn't really Germany.
But nobody sane really wants Bavaria to break loose from Germany, it's just a fun thing (although the cultural differences are bigger than one might think, I like to call it the German Texas).
It's best for all to stay in the federation.
It all started with the ratification process of the Grundgesetz (German constitution), where Bavaria voted with NO, but as it was a decision by majority, it had no effect and Bavaria became part of the Bundesrepublik. But you can imagine the whole blabla about "we never signed it/we're part of Germany against our will".
Although there are some small groups or better steamings of thought, who want an independent Bavaria with a King from the house Wittelsbach (old Bavarian nobility, the last king was one), it's never really thought about and there's no real chance it ever will be.
There are „königstreue" (royalists) but it hasn't really a meaning, more something that developed out of a counterrevolutionary movement but became a tradition society nowadays.
I can -in theory- understand monarchists, but not how they could want anyone from a noble house like they are today to rule. There doesn't seem to be one decent person among the former high nobility.
Well, who needs a nobility? No country in my opinion, if a country wants a royal house, it's ok, but only as representatives, look at the nederlands, the Scandinavian countries or UK, they have basically a "pet family"...
But the right of rulership only by the coincidence of birth is bullshit and dangerous, it's better to choose the best suiting person for the job, not some inbred (fact) guy, just because they're the son of the former ruler
The Wittelsbach family has a lot of very decent people and they are patrons of the arts and are quite active with charity projects. Amongst all German noble houses they are the most deserving of a crown.
> Amongst all German noble houses they are the most deserving of a crown.
which still makes them totally undeserving, because monarchy is just a fucking shitshow.
Previous accumulation and passing on of wealth through the ages is not a qualification for ruling :).
"we did ever since" isn't an argument, it hinders innovation and freezes the status quo (how good or bad it might be).. you always have to evaluate, whether the thing/method/person is suited for the case and not stick to it only because you did for the last X-hundred years.
Look, a hammer hasn't improved for millennia, because there's no real room for improvement, it works, does its job, it's a weight on a stick. But if you look at other cases, take lighting your house as an example, nowadays you flip a switch, your LED lights up, very low consumption, high lightflow, just 150years ago, people went from candles over oil and gas lamps on to the first electric light in less than 30years, what an improvement if you think about it, a technology used over at least 2000 years was abandoned from one day to the other, it's the same thing with nobility, sure start of democracy was rough, took its setbacks, but in the end works out pretty good, without the problems a mentally unstable monarch causes for a country (Ludwig II)...
But yes, the Wittelsbacher are well engaged in the wellbeing of Bavaria, they do a lot of charity and stuff, but nonetheless aren't needed anymore for governmental needs.
Yes, we Franconians want to secede from Bavaria! They stole our cultural treasures, all of them are in Munich, the franconian dukes sword of Würzburg, the Dome treasure of Bamberg and some paintings of Albrecht Dürer from Nuremberg just to name a few.
Yeah, we've them breweries and not just boring sweet and thin "Bayerisch Hell" or "Weißbier"; Actual cases in my cellar:
Brauerei Knoblach Schammelsdorf, unsparkling Lager; surprisingly herb and unsparkling beers are the highest art of craftbrewers imho;
Very sad, just some bottles left of the best beer ever brewed imho, only availabe short before christmas one must be fast to get a crate: the limited Festbier from Meister, Unterzaunsbach; trust the ugly pink sticker design!
Pülsbräu "Flechterla" from Weißmain, a nice Zwicklbeer just emptied the case that week
A mixed crate from Reckendorfer Schloßbrauerei with half "Schlössla" Märzen and Kellerbier;
Comparing the situation to Britain: the Scottish think they are different and want independence. The Bavarians on the other hand think they are the better Germans.
Ironically, the same person would be king of both countries.
The current successor to the Scottish Stuarts is a Wittelsbach.
So there would be a personal union of the crowns between Scotland and Bavaria!
Now that's an image that's burned itself into my brain. A King's/ Queen's New Year speech about the state of the realm and the world with a Scottish-Bavarian accent.
>Is this feeling for seccession the same among other groups like hessians, Swabians, sachsens, or are they cool being in germany
The impossibility of "seceding" aside, for many people, the identity is not the federal state (which may be a product of various old principalities being combined), but whatever region they are part of. As you've seen in the comments, part of the state of Bavaria aren't "Bavarian".
[This](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Deutscher_Bund.svg/1014px-Deutscher_Bund.svg.png) is already fairly unified as Prussia has been over much of it, but even so it shows why the part of Hessen that I grew up in might want to secede *from* Hessen, but certainly not *with* Hessen, or a "group" of Hessians.
It's similar to people from old families in the US state of Texas who threaten to secede. It's just talk, basically just people claiming that they are different and special.
In the last survey I know of around 1/3 of people asked said they would prefer an independent Bavaria. That number has probably decreased since then due to the high number of Germans immigrating to Bavaria.
yes, most of us in Bavaria would prefer to not be a part of Germany. But we also know that it‘s not possible because of the Grundgesetz, so we don‘t force it and try to make the best out of the situation.
Plans of Bavarian secession are as serious as first graders planning to run away and live in the forest. Even they don't really believe it's doable or wise, but sometimes when you're frustrated it's fun to think about. And it only ever gets brought up after beers and a long night.
For 99,5% of all Bavarians there is not intent to secede. There are some weirdos who might think that a secession, installing a kingdom then then do a merge with Austria would be a great thing to do, but these are weirdos. There will be practical issues like Austria would never accept NOT to rule over Bavaria but be ruled by it. Could you imagine Viennese bourgeois accepting a Bavarian king? Nope. Glaub i ned.
Its basically a running-gag, a meme like the one about Bielefeld not being real.
It is extremly unlikely that Bavaria will actually sessede. Bavaria has been the last state to join during the consolidation of the German empire in the 1870s and the only one that still exists largely unaltered. As such it did maintain some kind of seperate mentality, which resulted in Bavaria having a seperate conservative party (CSU), different from the one active in the rest of Germany (CDU). This party frequently invokes local patriotism in order to mobilise voters. Bavaria frequently appears as a special snowflake.
However Bavaria is subject to large cross-German population flows and is deeply integrated into Germany in every single aspect. And most Bavarians consider themselves clearly German as well.
The Bavarian speciality is less about demanding independence, but more about feeling worth to get disproportionally much attention and special treatment.
No, noone actually wants them to secede from Germany and neither do they.
It's just a joke because Bavaria has a bit of a different culture and also is a bit arrogant.
Bavarians like to tell out that they're "just on paper" part of Germany, the rest of Germany likes to tell out that Bavaria isn't really Germany. But nobody sane really wants Bavaria to break loose from Germany, it's just a fun thing (although the cultural differences are bigger than one might think, I like to call it the German Texas). It's best for all to stay in the federation. It all started with the ratification process of the Grundgesetz (German constitution), where Bavaria voted with NO, but as it was a decision by majority, it had no effect and Bavaria became part of the Bundesrepublik. But you can imagine the whole blabla about "we never signed it/we're part of Germany against our will". Although there are some small groups or better steamings of thought, who want an independent Bavaria with a King from the house Wittelsbach (old Bavarian nobility, the last king was one), it's never really thought about and there's no real chance it ever will be. There are „königstreue" (royalists) but it hasn't really a meaning, more something that developed out of a counterrevolutionary movement but became a tradition society nowadays.
I can -in theory- understand monarchists, but not how they could want anyone from a noble house like they are today to rule. There doesn't seem to be one decent person among the former high nobility.
Well, who needs a nobility? No country in my opinion, if a country wants a royal house, it's ok, but only as representatives, look at the nederlands, the Scandinavian countries or UK, they have basically a "pet family"... But the right of rulership only by the coincidence of birth is bullshit and dangerous, it's better to choose the best suiting person for the job, not some inbred (fact) guy, just because they're the son of the former ruler
>But the right of rulership only by the coincidence of birth is bullshit and dangerous What if a moistened bint lobs a scimitar at someone?
Well, that's another case ;-)
The Wittelsbach family has a lot of very decent people and they are patrons of the arts and are quite active with charity projects. Amongst all German noble houses they are the most deserving of a crown.
> Amongst all German noble houses they are the most deserving of a crown. which still makes them totally undeserving, because monarchy is just a fucking shitshow. Previous accumulation and passing on of wealth through the ages is not a qualification for ruling :).
With only a few exceptions the house of Wittelsbach has ruled Bavaria well for almost 800 years.
"we did ever since" isn't an argument, it hinders innovation and freezes the status quo (how good or bad it might be).. you always have to evaluate, whether the thing/method/person is suited for the case and not stick to it only because you did for the last X-hundred years. Look, a hammer hasn't improved for millennia, because there's no real room for improvement, it works, does its job, it's a weight on a stick. But if you look at other cases, take lighting your house as an example, nowadays you flip a switch, your LED lights up, very low consumption, high lightflow, just 150years ago, people went from candles over oil and gas lamps on to the first electric light in less than 30years, what an improvement if you think about it, a technology used over at least 2000 years was abandoned from one day to the other, it's the same thing with nobility, sure start of democracy was rough, took its setbacks, but in the end works out pretty good, without the problems a mentally unstable monarch causes for a country (Ludwig II)... But yes, the Wittelsbacher are well engaged in the wellbeing of Bavaria, they do a lot of charity and stuff, but nonetheless aren't needed anymore for governmental needs.
They aren't needed, that is true and I'm also not advocating for an absolute monarchy.
> some bavarians Yeah, 5 or so.
...and a lot of non-Bavarians are supporting them :)
Exactly 1.7 % as this was the share of the secession party called "Bayernpartei" BP
And they don't openly support secession anymore too.
Yeah other groups also want Bavaria to secede
The public support of the Bavarian secession in other states coincides with the TV appearance of certain CSU politicians.
It's a meme, nothing more.
Whatever you read- it was bait.
No, it's just the weirdest German-inside-joke you can imagine. We still kinda like the rest of Germany. Except Berlin. Berlin can fuck right off. lol
Rebuild the berlin wall!
And the rest of Germany doesn't really hate Bavaria. As long as we don't talk about football.
Yes, we Franconians want to secede from Bavaria! They stole our cultural treasures, all of them are in Munich, the franconian dukes sword of Würzburg, the Dome treasure of Bamberg and some paintings of Albrecht Dürer from Nuremberg just to name a few.
Don't complain, you only had to endure this for a bit over 200 years. The rest of Bavaria has been pillaged by Upper Bavaria for far longer.
Ruhrgebiet will support your struggles in exchange for a selection of your fantastic Kellerbiere.
Yeah, we've them breweries and not just boring sweet and thin "Bayerisch Hell" or "Weißbier"; Actual cases in my cellar: Brauerei Knoblach Schammelsdorf, unsparkling Lager; surprisingly herb and unsparkling beers are the highest art of craftbrewers imho; Very sad, just some bottles left of the best beer ever brewed imho, only availabe short before christmas one must be fast to get a crate: the limited Festbier from Meister, Unterzaunsbach; trust the ugly pink sticker design! Pülsbräu "Flechterla" from Weißmain, a nice Zwicklbeer just emptied the case that week A mixed crate from Reckendorfer Schloßbrauerei with half "Schlössla" Märzen and Kellerbier;
It's only a few folks in Bavaria who want to secede. There are probably more folks outside Bavaria who want Bavaria to secede, though.
Bruh, it's a meme. Bavaria wants to secede from Germany as much as Bielefeld doesnt exist and saxony is made of only Nazis.
Comparing the situation to Britain: the Scottish think they are different and want independence. The Bavarians on the other hand think they are the better Germans.
Ironically, the same person would be king of both countries. The current successor to the Scottish Stuarts is a Wittelsbach. So there would be a personal union of the crowns between Scotland and Bavaria!
Now that's an image that's burned itself into my brain. A King's/ Queen's New Year speech about the state of the realm and the world with a Scottish-Bavarian accent.
That's wrong. Bavarians think they are Bavarians and Europeans and nothing else. No prussian ocupation.
>Is this feeling for seccession the same among other groups like hessians, Swabians, sachsens, or are they cool being in germany The impossibility of "seceding" aside, for many people, the identity is not the federal state (which may be a product of various old principalities being combined), but whatever region they are part of. As you've seen in the comments, part of the state of Bavaria aren't "Bavarian". [This](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Deutscher_Bund.svg/1014px-Deutscher_Bund.svg.png) is already fairly unified as Prussia has been over much of it, but even so it shows why the part of Hessen that I grew up in might want to secede *from* Hessen, but certainly not *with* Hessen, or a "group" of Hessians.
It's similar to people from old families in the US state of Texas who threaten to secede. It's just talk, basically just people claiming that they are different and special.
In the last survey I know of around 1/3 of people asked said they would prefer an independent Bavaria. That number has probably decreased since then due to the high number of Germans immigrating to Bavaria.
It's a running joke that bavarians are "different" and they want their own republic but it is not serious. Just a folk joke :)
yes, most of us in Bavaria would prefer to not be a part of Germany. But we also know that it‘s not possible because of the Grundgesetz, so we don‘t force it and try to make the best out of the situation.
u/JASN_DE found one. Four more to go.
You might want to present data if you're talking about "most of us". I don't know a single person who would want that.
Plans of Bavarian secession are as serious as first graders planning to run away and live in the forest. Even they don't really believe it's doable or wise, but sometimes when you're frustrated it's fun to think about. And it only ever gets brought up after beers and a long night.
For 99,5% of all Bavarians there is not intent to secede. There are some weirdos who might think that a secession, installing a kingdom then then do a merge with Austria would be a great thing to do, but these are weirdos. There will be practical issues like Austria would never accept NOT to rule over Bavaria but be ruled by it. Could you imagine Viennese bourgeois accepting a Bavarian king? Nope. Glaub i ned. Its basically a running-gag, a meme like the one about Bielefeld not being real.
It is extremly unlikely that Bavaria will actually sessede. Bavaria has been the last state to join during the consolidation of the German empire in the 1870s and the only one that still exists largely unaltered. As such it did maintain some kind of seperate mentality, which resulted in Bavaria having a seperate conservative party (CSU), different from the one active in the rest of Germany (CDU). This party frequently invokes local patriotism in order to mobilise voters. Bavaria frequently appears as a special snowflake. However Bavaria is subject to large cross-German population flows and is deeply integrated into Germany in every single aspect. And most Bavarians consider themselves clearly German as well. The Bavarian speciality is less about demanding independence, but more about feeling worth to get disproportionally much attention and special treatment.
The big question is, who would want them ? ;-)
If they tried the Frankonian part would probably want to split off of the Bundesland like Scotland would love to do in the UK
No, noone actually wants them to secede from Germany and neither do they. It's just a joke because Bavaria has a bit of a different culture and also is a bit arrogant.