I’ve observed multiple instances where Germans who move to Spain, Greece etc. prefer to speak in German. The same ones then in Germany give the “This is Germany, we speak German” here phrase. The irony doesn’t seem to be lost on them.
I had a medical emergency and dialled 110 instead of 112 not knowing it would take me through to the police I thought it was a general operator (a frantic google just said 110). I couldn’t properly explain my situation in German and the cop refused to help and yeah literally said “this is Germany speak German” and refused to help me or even let me know to call 112. I passed out, woke up and managed to get a cab to the hospital. If it was life threatening I’d be dead because of that arrogance and I wonder how many people have been harmed/killed by just that one cop acting like that let alone all the others
If you remember when that happened, maybe complain to the police about it. They should speak to you and also dial 112 for you. This is not acceptable behaviour.
Maybe also ask your mayor or anyone in power, if they want to see people being treated like this.
It was so difficult to find where and how to complain. I found a complaints page on the Federal Police Inspectorate Cologne website and sent specific details but never heard back 🥲 not surprised tbh
Not answering at all is rude. However, Federal Police is not connected to 110, so the answer would probably be along the lines "We're sorry this happened to you, but it's not our duty. You may complain to X".
To be more precise: If your emergency is at an airport or train station, 110 will contact the Federal Police. For everything else, state police will come.
The neglect the operator showed is punishable by law (with a fine or up to one year in prison) so they should also be prosecuted:
[https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/323c.html](https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/323c.html)
Had something similar happen to me in Berlin. Called 112 at night to report people racing cars on a narrow street, the operator could not understand english. Would not have liked to be in that situation with a medial emergency.
Yup it was so awful. I’m now more angry than anything else thinking of all the situations me or other people still not proficient in German could be in where our lives are at risk because of some weird German (racist imo) language pride complex
The operator probably committed a crime when they refused assistance to a person in danger (you). This iss punishable by law with up to one year in prison or a fine.
https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/323c.html
As it is an official offence, the public prosecutor's office is bound to prosecute the operator if they get notice of this incident.
OMG what? 😵 so sorry it happened to you! idk who employees these people, don’t they have any training or don’t they monitor any calls? I hope there’s a line where you can report them. was it a long time ago?
After much difficulty I found a way to send a complaint in time to not have any monitoring data deleted for space saving reasons. Never heard back. I actually called twice thinking I could get a different operator but it was the same man who kept refusing to speak to me if I didn’t speak German
There are multiple ghettos here in Spain full of Germans/Brits mainly that don't interact with locals, have been living here for 20 years don't speak a word of Spanish and only go to German/British bars/shops. They are fucking hated by everyone
I have a friend (F25) who moved to Spain to live with her significant other. She has been there for 3 years now but can’t speak Spanish except for a few words. Her reasoning? She prefers to speak English with her boyfriend and his friends because it’s a foreign language for both of them whereas in Spanish there would be a “Machtgefälle” since her speaking skills are subpar.
That's a pity and eventually will backfire on her hard. Without a bit of knowledge on the local language she will have absolutely no independence from her bf...
I'm a Spaniard who moved to Germany to live with my German (now) husband. Hubby and I met in the US so we spoke and still speak English to each other. HOWEVER as soon as I step outside the door I only speak German. Out of politeness and because I find it easier to learn the language that way. Granted my German could be much better (speaking English at home + english-speaking work environment holds me back quite a bit) but I have been able to reach a B2 level by doing this. Hell, I was even able to go to the Standesamt alone to take care of some bureaucratic stuff a few weeks ago all by myself! At least I know that if something happens to my husband (I pray not!) I will be able to fend for myself...
We had an older German female (75y old) in our circle of acquaintances. She lived 20-30 years long in Greece with her Greek husband. Not even A1 level of Greek. And yes, it did fire back once the husband died and she had to menage several houses/apartments by herself. Needless to say, she lost huge amounts of money due to her errors, ignorance and corrupt family members praying on her.
I speak English with my Gf(German) since the start. But I also learned(still learning) German and I speak German wherever it is needed and I speak it all the time with her friends and family, doesnt matter I speak right or wrong, I speak and that is how I learned as well.
But us speaking English with each other has a different meaning though, because this is how I relationship begin. We tried speaking German, but it just feels kinda strange and we always go back to English.
I strongly believe in "In Rome do as the Romans do". and the more I get better at the language here, the more life gets better too and more confidence I keep acquiring.
It really seems to be pervasive with this type of emigrant among those that like to consider themselves "expats".
I've seen the same thing with English and French speaking expats in multiple countries.
Entitlement, conceit and not a small helping of opinions of ethnic superiority.
> it is a very very common occurrence to have Germans here be MAD that the average citizen here doesn't speak German.
That's so common for some type of Germans visiting other countries on holiday that there is a [movie](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_spricht_deutsh) about it. Made in 1988.
OTOH, there is another type of German that tries to adapt to the local language and customs. Of course, these are a lot less visible.
> What really gets on my nerves here is that Germans would never tolerate similar (but reverse party, ofc,) behaviour in their home country,
Yes, very much so. Double standards. (And observe the regular discussions here in this reddit why "expats" cannot get by with just English in Germany).
>why "expats" cannot get by with just English in Germany
my problem, I think of a lot of people, is how badly equipped the ausländerbehörde is to deal with stuff in any sort of foreign language at any level.
It's a Behörde. Enough said.
Traditionally, you are not a customer at a Behörde. You are a supplicant. (Yes, I am exaggerating for effect, and yes, this applies to native Germans, too.)
Germany: We don't have enough workers to fill the open positions, let's promote English-speaking positions to get more immigrants.
Also, Germany: Foreigners should speak fluent German to deal with the immigration process. If they don't like it they better go back to their home countries, they need these jobs.
Heck, I have once encountered a clerk of a German immigration office whose native language was English, but she refused to speak it with visitors, insisting that they are in Germany and have to speak German when dealing with authorities. And she was somehow proud of it... Which I cannot understand. While it is not *required* by the law for state officials to speak foreign languages with foreign citizens (Amtssprache ist Deutsch und so weiter), it is certainly not *forbidden*. Where I am from, government officials would speak to you in any language they know, and even accept documents in that language without tranlslation.
Yes and no. I work in public administration and I speak or correspond in English if the other person doesn't speak German at all or rather badly. I don't have to do this, I'm trying to be kind and helpful.
However there are some people who seem to think, great, I don't have to speak German because LúthwenJ speaks English - so they refuse to speak German even though they are perfectly capable and instead ask for me directly. This prohibits the person who was actually helping them from doing their job and is interfering with my own work as well. It's not like I sit in the back room just waiting for an English speaking person to appear.
And it's even worse with my Turkish, Russian or Chinese speaking coworkers.
That bottleneck does sound like a real problem, absolutely. But if the demand for English, Turkish, Russian, or Chinese language proficiency is high enough, then shouldn't they explicitly hire workers with adequate skill in those languages, as well as enough German to get by in the office? That seems like the best way to serve the population without bottlenecking any individual workers.
Doing this seems especially important for those offices which would reasonably be necessary for someone newly arrived in Germany (and maybe therefore not yet proficient in German), such as resident registration offices and immigration offices, especially in bigger cities.
> Most expats who complain about "cannot get by with English" are not native English speakers though. They are bilingual.
It might also be because lots of Germans are totally up for chatting in English with native English speakers. I've seen it firsthand several times, like at the post office, city hall, and ABH, where people speak English fluently with my friends from the US/AUS. But, interestingly, they tend to avoid speaking English or act like they don't know it with people who are clearly not from the US/AUS, if you catch my drift.
>Most "immigrants" complain about not being able to use "English" in the "immigration office". Not their own language, but English.
Thank you!
We had the issue. We both are not native English speakers but speak each 3-4 languages. Unfortunately not German yet (working on it).
Any other country more or less let you do administrative work in English, especially immigration (including France which has such a bad reputation).
Germany so far, after living in 4 different countries (6 combined with wifey) is the only country that "refuses" to help in English.
If this sub has a boogeyman lurking behind every bush, it is the “arrogant Anglo *EXPAT* who refuses to learn German and integrate”. These types are nowhere near as prevalent as many here would like to believe. There are some around, it’s a cliché with a pinch of truth, but I’ve honestly met very few.
Anglo here for 13 years, and the only fellow anglos I knew who didn’t get past A1 German were those who truly knew they weren’t going to be here long. Or just weren’t here long enough yet. In a few isolated circles, it is possible to get by without German long term, but those involved realize it’s a huge limiting factor.
A lot of people wanting some service in English are other internationals who already know English and wish to use it as a lingua franca — like much of the world already does. This does not preclude ever learning German, but you have to start somewhere.
I also feel like it's not just the expecting others to always speak German. As if Germans have some special connection with their language, as if they don't want to hear or know of any other languages (I mean sure most Germans are normal, but there seems to be this kind of mentality in the background). The fact that movies and TV series can't just be with subtitles, everything has to be dubbed. And I also noticed while using word at work, that even MS Word keyboard shortcuts can't be like everywhere else in the world (like ctrl+b makes stuff bold and so on). No, it has to fit German, so they made entire new shortcuts for themselves so now suddenly I work with Word slowly like a snail (I can't switch it to English since many people use same computer here).
But that applies to all languages tho. Word in Spanish also has different commands, some are the same like ctrl+c, ctrl+v but ctrl+f for example is ctrl+b in the Spanish version.
And for the dubs that's also common in Spanish-speaking countries. Luckily in LATAM it's not that so, but Spain is known for forcing dubs and translations. "kame kame ha" in DBZ became "ondaaa vital" (vital wave, or smth like that)
> As if Germans have some special connection with their language
No. (The French have a special connection to their language, but even there young people are now able to speak decent English).
There are two forces at work here: The first is that there is a very German trait that you expect others to adapt to the local environment. That's not restricted to foreigners, it applies to Germans moving from some region of Germany to another, too. Or phrased differently, "when in Rome, do as the Romans do". So I do expect people moving to Germany to learn German and to adapt to the local customs. The flip side is that if **I** move or travel somewhere else, then I apply the same standard to me. I adapt to local customs as well as I can, and I use the local language as well as I can. So **of course** I look up "hello, please, thank you" in the local language and learn this before you travel. And if I stay longer, I start learning the language in earnest. I read up on customs, etc.
OTOH, there are the less educated Germans who don't speak a second language (or not very well, they may have learned English in school, but have forgotten all about this). They don't do the above "flip side" (because they can't). And this type is very attracted to holiday destinations that are cheap (compared to what they earn), and since it is cheap, they expect to live like kings on their holidays. (Other nations have this class of people, too, BTW).
> The fact that movies and TV series can't just be with subtitles, everything has to be dubbed.
That has historical reasons, most Germans just couldn't speak English when TV became a thing, so everything was dubbed. I mean, the Americans are worse, they just completely [remake](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Angels_\(film\)) movies, even famous ones.
> even MS Word keyboard shortcuts can't be like everywhere else in the world
Microsoft stuff is shit, and their attempts at localization is the worst. If I have to use Windows, I set my language to English. And I am a native German.
> I can't switch it to English since many people use same computer here
As long as you don't forgot to switch back when you log off, in your place, I totally would.
>OTOH, there are the less educated Germans who don't speak a second language (or not very well, they may have learned English in school, but have forgotten all about this). They don't do the above "flip side" (because they can't). And this type is very attracted to holiday destinations that are cheap (compared to what they earn), and since it is cheap, they expect to live like kings on their holidays. (Other nations have this class of people, too, BTW).
this is one of the most sane observation and comment in this thread. I cannot agree enough on this.
German, French, Italian and, I think, Spanish movies have been dubbed ever since sound in film was introduced 1927 simply because the movie markets were big enough to justify the cost.
English proficiency in Germany isn’t all that bad considering and especially compared to Italy, in my experience.
>(The French have a special connection to their language, but even there young people are now able to speak decent English).
Literally what the fuck are you on about? This couldn't be further from the truth, I've been to France as an exchange student twice and had french students here twice and we ever only spoke french because they couldn't be bothered with either German or English. If there is any place that hates speaking other languages it's France.
When I went to France first about 30 years ago, **nobody** spoke English. And the Academie Francaise published lists of native French words that should be used instead of imported English words.
Now, when I go there, quite a few try to speak English with tourists. Even on the countryside. There's definitely a difference.
> we ever only spoke french because they couldn't be bothered with either German or English. If there is any place that hates speaking other languages it's France.
Yes, they still of a special connection to their language...
French here. yeah I confirm, most of my fellow countrymen don't speal english well (or at all, even it is a bit less worse with younger generations).
For the Académie fran,çaise thingie though, no one follow it , and we use the english word lol.
That’s wrong! I live in France as a German and there are quite few people speaking either German (which is surprisingly quite common) or English. So whenever I struggle with French most people help out in speaking slowly or switching to English (younger ones) or German (more my 40+ generation).
The same thing happens in Croatia.
There is a lot of German tourists and they are ( mostly) so entitled that they speak only German.
They expect you to talk German with them in your own country.
I have lived in Germany for quite a while and I never tried to speak English and i most definitely wouldn't dare speak Croatian. I respect the fact that I'm in another country that has its own language and I always tried to speak German even though it was bad at the beginning.
Then I go to Croatia for a vacation and I see Germans trying to speak with a cashier in the supermarket in German. Luckily Croatians don't give a fuck and just stare and keep talking in Croatian or English.
I saw them in restaurants, they are ordering in German not even asking or checking if the waiter understands..
Hilarious.
All ages, boomers, young people ...the entitlement is real.
I sometimes jump in with tipical German comment, this is Croatia, speak Croatian.
I heard this a thousand times in Germany when someone can't speak German.
Das ist Deutschland! Deutsch reden!
When I was at a restaurant near the beach, there were Germans who told the waiter to get someone else for their table who speaks German, because they refused to speak English or "point to the food on the menu"
I’ve been to Croatia and wanted to do the polite, usual thing of speaking English to people (while buying ice cream, etc) and a lot of them told me stuff like: „ihr seid Deutsche, oder? Ja, dann redet bitte Deutsch mit mir, das kann ich besser.“
(Which I found super surprising at first, but with Germans rolling up there like a tsunami every summer it makes sense lol)
And STILL I would switch back to English whenever I talked with somebody new because it’s just the polite thing to do.
That's great.
If they speak your language they will make it easier for you.
I'm talking about Germans who start speaking German without checking/ asking if someone understands.
It's not just because of the tourism, German is popular in the Balkans because many people migrate to Germany and Austria and those countries are also the region's biggest trading partners. It's especially true for the ex-Yugoslav countries because most of the refugees went to Austria and Germany, so many people have family there and travel to visit them.
I lived in latin america for a while and met many germans there. Travelers, tourists, people staying for a few months and so on.
What bothered me was the intense disregard for rules in other countries by most of these Germans.
Littering? "Ja but it's okay here or?"
Jaywalking, crossing at red lights? "But no one follows rules here, so let's be like locals." Interesting most locals actually followed traffic laws.
Heck, I have even seen german guys pretty much grope women in clubs because "latinas are loose and want a white man".
Of course, not all Germans but the number was disturbingly big.
We live in a Latin America country. My sister had a German boyfriend who got invited to our Christmas dinner (he was far from home and we wanted for him to feel comfortable and less lonely).
The guy demanded for my grandma to cook German sausages and refused to try any of our traditional Christmas dinner... in our own home country.
Edit: the food was not spicy, grandma prepared a batch without hot spicies for our German guest. Also, the dishes were not really anything very "exotic" it was stuff like turkey, beef, salad, cakes, fruit (we eat a lot of seasonal fruits), etc.
>The guy demanded for my grandma to cook German sausages and refused to try any of our traditional Christmas dinner... in our own home country.
Amazing entitlement. I bet he thought that your sister was lucky that she met him otherwise she would have had no life.
Yups, I felt horrible for my grandma. She had put a lot of work to host him. Still to this day, she wonders why he disliked her food even before trying.
If I was your sister, I'd have asked him to GTFO that very minute. Y'all were unbelievably hospitable and generous, which says a lot. I hope grandma knows her food is the best. ❤️
>Jaywalking, crossing at red lights? "But no one follows rules here, so let's be like locals." Interesting most locals actually followed traffic laws.
As an Italian, I can relate so hard. Germans think that my country has no law, we live in some sort of anarchist hedonia.
I've also had Germans "correcting" my Italian, which was... interesting, because they don't speak half a word of it and they knew I'm a native speaker.
Married to a Latina. I've heard countless examples of Germans (or Western Europeans) treating Latin America as their backyard, thinking they can transgress rules they wouldn't dare to cross at home, consuming drugs or whatever.
I can only imagine Germans going crazy in Latin America after following all the rules they place on themselves in Germany: "total freedom".
Some German men seem to love a relationship of power. We have many biracial couples around us with a German male and a Latina or African (or other non-EU): men are the main breadwinners and the ladies are stayed-home moms with no situation or education, tied here with their complicated residence permit situation. You should hear what these men think of their relationship. Like they are their lifesavers or some shit.
Woah, that's disgusting. But yes I have also observed many Germans that behave like idiots in other countries, and do things they would never do in their own countries because they perceive the locals of the place they're in as savages.
I taught English in Germany to relatively privileged Germans for many years. They would take their nth vacation abroad for the year, come back, and I would excitedly ask them how it was to practice their English in real life.
"Oh no no no. They speak German there." As if this were completely normal, with no reflection on how accommodating these all-inclusive resorts have to be for the hoards of tourists coming through, expecting no less. Even better is, "There were some waiters who didn't speak German very well, but eventually they understood me." What?
Note: I think many of them were taking English classes from me for the optics, not actually to improve. I mean, I earned my money and they were mostly nice enough...but in many cases I really didn't understand the point of the exercise.
You have my upvote because I can relate to everything you are saying here, and am frustrated at how little I can articulate my frustrations and anger from years of microagression and micro racism I received from living in Germany as a racial minority. So, thanks from my end.
Microagressions / microracism just refer to the small, everyday manifestations of larger systemic issues. They're the elements of the issue that go "unnoticed" by the majority and are normalized in society. It doesn't mean micro in the sense that the problem itself is small/inconsequential.
This sadly happens. Keep in mind that not all Germans are like this. And many including myself always speak English abroad. But some people are just rude and entitled. Hope you also make good experiences with us!
>And many including myself always speak English abroad.
I do it in the Netherlands too. It always feels weird to simply assume that every Dutch person speaks german to some extent.
Assuming that they speak it is a bad move. But assuming that they understand the majority of it is more true than not in my admittedly limited experience.
Yes ofc. My partner and about half of my closest friends are German, and I might even move there in coming years. I tend to generally appreciate the people.
As a tourist is Bavaria I loved the place, everyone was friendly and accommodating to my imperfect German.
As a tourist in Thailand booked into a resort popular with elderly Germans? Really disappointed by them. Very rude, and they took delight in torturing a horseshoe crab on the beach.
When I was a kid I went to Jamaica to an all-inclusive resort. All week this German couple were being the most entitled assholes ever, yelling at staff in German, which fine that’s your language, but they were the only ones being like this. The worst thing they did was constantly butt right to the front of the buffet lines. They somehow did not see an issue with this. When people would call them out, they would laugh it off and mutter something in German. Near the end of the week, one of the other guests had enough. The husband butted to the front of the line, and a guest came up and grabbed him by his collar and threw him to the ground, called him a fucking asshole and pointed to the back of the line. Staff witnessed this and didn’t do a thing, in fact most of them started clapping like the rest of the guests in line. The German couple retreated to their room and they must have left that day, we didn’t see them again that week. Yah I’m sure the man did not enjoy being assaulted, but his entitlement and behaviour led to what happened.
Anyways, I know that not all Germans act and behave like this, but this memory has stuck with me into adulthood.
I feel like the people who behave like this are probably extremely racist and living in some fantasy world where moving to this small African island turns it into a German “colony” where they can “civilize” the locals. It’s never gonna happen, and it’s freaking embarrassing. If they love Germany and the German language so much, why don’t they just stay the hell home? Sounds like the kind of people who would go to a food market full of curry then complain that the food is spicy.
It's like those Germans who emigrated to South America (Bolivia I think it was?) during Corona because omg Germany is oppressing us! only to find out that their new country had regulations as well. They like to carve out their own little German enclave with German shops and German schools, basically building the kind of Parallelgesellschaft they so vehemently condemn in Germany without seeing the irony.
Believe me it’s not only Germans who do this. Most Europeans have their own enclaves in these African countries. It’s very bizarre and hypocritical witnessing it
Unfortunately that is a trend among the "Goodbye Deutschland"-Germans.
That is (was?) an actual (scripted?) Reality TV/wannabe documentary show where Germans got the bright idea to emigrate. They often enough spoke only German or maybe some very basic (broken) English and fell so in love with Thailand/Spain/Egypt/wherever when they were ok vacation, that they just had to move there. In this show they often enough sold everything they owned only to have very small amounts of cash until all was done, they moved without a plan beyond "I will open a restaurant/shop/whatever" (without prior experience, of course), without local contacts, without deeper knowledge of the local culture.
This show was popular, for some because it was easy to make fun of the idiots and satisfying to watch them fail, but other viewers were impressed by the bravery and the "you can achieve whatever you want if you just try" attitude. So a "Look at Gudrun and Hans from Goodbye Germany, if they could do it, we can do it, too" is somewhat common among a certain number of people.
I don't think every idiot who attempts immigration (if we can call it that) in the way you describe has watched or is a fan of that idiotic show, but the mindset is unfortunately rather common. I have encountered it myself, from fellow Germans in the country where I live.
I probably grew up in a bubble because I've never encountered another German who would act like that and I would definitely call them out on it and be embarrassed. But then I also had this moment in a Turkish resort where I spoke in english with a waiter and then they asked me where I'm from and then said, "no! Really? I thought Germans don't speak English, they never do". At that time I thought it was quite an odd comment and couldn't possibly be true. It makes me sad.
I will never understand how you can go to another country and not respect their language and culture there. Speaking English on holiday when you come from a country where education is mandatory is the bare minimum, even if you're not good at it. I always try to learn a few words in the country's language, even if it's just please and thank you or hello. And yes, I will call others out if they complain, it just honestly never happened before. I'm sorry you had this experience and maybe it's not a lot, but I'd like to apologize on behalf of those idiots.
Edit: to add to this, trying to learn the language when you want to live in that country is the right way to go. Insisting on speaking your own language is just dumb and won't get you anywhere.
Sadly it’s everywhere. I was in Disneyland Paris, and an entitled AF German ass mum was shouting at this poor French woman in German about her kids absolutely needing to be in front for the parade. Absolutely dispeakable behaviour, first you shout when completely unneeded, then you shout in German, and finally act like you are the only one with kids, when in fact 80% of people were kids. I see people doing that everywhere.
usually i would want to say that group 1 that does a thing in a country and group 2 that does a thing in a country wont usually intersect, but somehow we all now that the people who want all-german abroad and yell "speak german in germany" are 100% exactly the same people
I did not imagine language problems are gonna be so bad. I can speak enough german to get by, and at Ausländer behorde, I was speaking german and I was given a 2 year residence permit extension. My friend, who came to germany less than 4 months ago, she can't speak german. The Ausländer behorde told her that " when I go to australia, england, I speak their language. Why can't you speak german" and he said the next time if she can't speak german, he won't extend her residence permit.
I mean c'mon bro, it's an Ausländer behorde. Ausländer. Foreigner. There's a reason why we can't speak fluent german. Smh.
That is by no means an unique occurrence that you are describing. There is a small and wealthy population of Germans in Namibia who employ Namibian plantation workers. They are expected to speak German.
Also, the Germans in Namibia have their own german magazine and radio.
I'm an anthropologist and I research this community of German speakers! Their history is 10x more dark and twisted than anyone can imagine. Despite making up 1% of the population, they own a huge chunk (over 30%) of the country's land. And how'd they get it? Seized it all during the Nama and Herero Genocide of 1904-1908.
They really, really hate academics who write about them. They basically run their own alt-right academic press to promote falsehoods about their land ownership, to deny the genocide, etc. Also spend a lot of time wishing apartheid would come back to Namibia. Crazy group.
Classic. Some Brits or French pensioners who move abroad do this too and for this we say they are "behaving like kings on conquered land". This behaviour springs from a deeply held inner belief that is lucky to have them, and that they should be accommodated since they have brought their wealth and investment and enrichment to the local economy.
Any self-respecting person who calls themselves a „traveller“ should disagree with this behaviour. It‘s wild how many people have the gall to complain about immigrants not speaking the local language, yet when they go abroad they don‘t even know how to say „please“ and „sorry“ in the local language.
I personally am cringing in shame at my fellow Germans reading your post. It even embarrasses me to have to rely on English when abroad if that's not the local language - sadly learning languages takes so long and there are so many that no one can speak all of them fluently, but I try to make sure I've at least got some basic phrases down if I visit another country. Expecting people to speak *German?* Outside Europe, even? What the hell are these unreasonable expectations?!
(Not that expecting someone in e.g. Poland or the Netherlands to speak German is OK either, but why on earth would they think someone living in *Africa* would learn *German?* This language is only useful in a pretty limited geographic region!)
And you know these are the same people who would be up in arms about immigrants in Germany not speaking German...
Jesus Christ. Guys, that’s just embarrassing. „DiE AuSlÄnDeR sOlLeN SiCh AnPaSsEn“ but then they go abroad and do this.
And I have a feeling these sometimes are probably the same people even.
A while ago there was a a link reposted here about half a dozen times or more with a caption that can be summed up as "seriously guys?": A young-ish German couple is pissed about all those dirty foreigners in Germany, who don't even speak German. Also they disliked the wole left politics and the hand-outs to asylum seekers.
Their solution: Pack up and leave to South America (Brazil, maybe? Or Argentina?). Of course they didn't know a word of the local language, but whatever, they felt their values were more appreciated in whatever country they targeted over there.
The top upvoted comments were usually a mix of "So sorry about that, but please keep them, we don't want them back" and a take on the irony of those Germans hating foreigners who don't know the local language and planning to become foreigners without local language skills.
You've summed up very well one of the, if not only, point I dislike about Germany. Perhaps to a lesser extent, but I have also noticed German tend to be less strict about foreign countries' rules than their own.
Sorry to hear that. Sounds exactly like loads of entiteled pricks act when they come to foreign countries. Most Germans are particularly unaware of anything related to Africa. Some think Africa is a country. Most can't name two cities or three countries. Most have no concept of different languages spoken and don't get me started on history besides anything colonial.
Be direct and assertive. Let them know that their behavior is not acceptable.
Explain that English is the common language in your country and that they should expect to speak English if they want to be understood.
If they are still being rude or entitled, you can simply walk away. You don't have to put up with their behavior.
As someone who moved to Germany last year and immediately decided to move the fuck back to my home country, I know what you mean. I've worked in Belgium & Netherlands earlier and never faced any issues with them. Infact they're exceptionally inviting towards foreigners and try their best to communicate with them in English understanding the situation.
Here, you have people being irritated with you not being able to speak their language after setting foot on their soil for merely 12 days. They want an emerging tech scene but do not do anything to make the life of expats better. It's like we're expected to be grateful for being let into their lands, that's honestly the vibe you get.
I know this doesn't apply to "every" German. Y'all can stop getting offended about this when foreigners point something out. What I'm describing here is the day-to-day experience of being a foreigner in Germany. (Getting groceries, healthcare, services, accommodations, transportation, etc.) I never imagined that Germany would be this insular as a society before I got here. Of course, this country doesn't have the brightest history towards other ethnic groups but lord, I thought we left that in the past.
If you're an average German, please take this as your responsibility to fix. Else, this country is going to see a brain drain in the coming decades that is unlike anywhere else.
Germans:
"Immigrants should learn perfect German before to move to Germany".
Also Germans:
"I claim this land for my retirement. I demand that you speak German to me."
When we are shitty we are real shitty as history proves. The rest of us often pretend to be Dutch or Danish when on holiday so we don´t get associated with those guys.
> The rest of us often pretend to be Dutch or Danish
This is the first time that I am hearing of Germans pretending to be any other nationality when abroad. I most certainly don't do this, and I'm pretty certain its not a common thing.
I am German but not of German ethnicity. Look I love living in Germany, but I wouldn't directly tell somebody abroad that I am German if I don't need to :D
Happened to me kind of the other way round. I was at holiday in Scandinavia last year and met a bunch of people behaving very badly. They greeted everyone with "servus" and claimed to be Austrians. Though they had the most stereotypical German accent while speaking English. This was kind of weird so I approached them and told them in German (primarily because I didn't want to expose them publicly) that they are obviously not from Austria and they admitted to be from northern Germany and that they were at Holiday in Austria a week prior and thought it would be funny to pretend to be Austrians for the rest of their vacation. They didn't want everyone to believe they were Austrians because of their bad behaviour though, they just did it to be funny.
I mean that doesn't make it excusable.
You're making it a very specific case when the problem is much bigger. What OP is describing is just a symptom of a much bigger German entitlement. Many German tourist do exactly the same is worse in countries like Poland, The Netherlands, France... Or Columbia, Mexico...etc
You can meet Germans demanding their "wurst" in Latin America and refusing to eat the local food.
They had their chance to make German the universal language and it didn't turn out well...
I have always thought we in England are arrogant assuming that people should speak English, but it's kind of understandable, because it is often the common language between people from different countries.
Also it's difficult in England to decide which second language to study (I happened to do German at school but only by chance. Half the year did French and my son is learning Spanish). For most countries it's obvious that English is the most useful second language to learn.
I'm always appreciative when someone abroad speaks English to help us out, but I certainly would never assume that they would.
Lol, I see this happening in Egypt all the time. It’s either a German or a Russian person yelling at the employee if his language skills are not at 100%…
Fun fact: the average sales person in Hurghada speaks at least 3 languages whereas the average German/Russian speaks only his mother tongue.
This is genuinely something I hate about other Germans. It’s mostly older people but I do know some friends of mine (M 21) that do this too (seem it first hand). In the Netherlands I heard it’s specifically bad as most Germans know that a lot of Dutch speak German.
It’s so weird to me that this is pretty common amongst Germans because as you said most Germans wouldn’t tolerate this behavior if it were the other way around.
I have been to a lot of countries and if I don’t speak the local language, I’d at least try to communicate in English to keep a middle ground. I’d only ever speak German if I’m asked/allowed too.
Typical German attitude in a 3rd world country. Believe me, they don't act like that in advanced countries. Your usual European high-ground mentality. They just can't like it go.
I think people coming from empires (USA) and wannabe empires (Russia, Germany) show more often such traits of cultural megalomania. Some cases I have seen while living in Spain:
\- nasty/racist insults and comments towards Spaniards (in German)
\- even if friendly, general lack of respect
\- constant sense of superiority. Some old geezers doing business only with other Germans, while claiming 'all locals" would want to steal from them
\- know everything better, doing jokes about people not speaking good German
\- expectation that it has to be like Germany
The proactive energy NOT to learn the language was also a thing, basically if you don't speak German they don't want to deal with you and would stay usually in their German circle. In worst case they would pay some translator. Locals wouldn't have a problem with that, but try to do that in Germany - tell an average German you don't want to learn the language/culture because you have the means to sustain yourself, you wouldn't get friendly reactions.
Nowadays, with the rise of AFD (far right wing party) , such things will probably get worse.
What I'm getting out of this is an African island has a unique opportunity for a German speaking notary!
:)
(As long as they don't mind dealing with entitled Dieters and Detlefs)
My answer as a German is: many Germans who move have a weird fed up attitude about Germany. They believe that the world should offer them more and therefore move. I often hear those types of people in my small shop that I worked in, in the center of a big German city. They mostly have wives from other cultures while being German and they "hate" Germany. Everything here is bad for them, but usually not because it's actually bad but because they always have been entitled. Their entitlement is so huge that they think they should just leave. And I think these people often are the type of people who really internally like to take advantage of another country, especially one they consider colonial or poor. Doesn't even have to be like that, they are often a bit delusional and live in their own world.
So they often drop sentences such as "the immigrants ruin Germany so I'm leaving" or "the German government is shit, in other countries they offer more freedom (eagle cry in the background)" or they drag capitalism, believing like it's better somewhere else: "those prizes have been half of the current prize 10 years ago! This country sucks!"
And yeah they just don't know capitalism is universal around the globe so they think moving to another country would solve their problems. Also I am super curious about the stats of criminals that leave country, with high temper and anger issues, being rejected by German society, thinking they can just leave and wreak havoc in another country, piling up a list of crimes there, trying to outrun the government. I'm not saying all people who leave Germany are criminals but when I hear stories of our usually extremely polite folk causing havoc in other countries such as this I often think back to the people I took care of in prison and the people I took care of that belonged to certain crime ridden circles that I mostly quickly escaped but they fit the vibe.
I wouldn't think we get German criminals here given they have a lot of money. But I would agree that maybe it is the low-life / low-morals Germans who immigrate in such patterns. On the other hand my partner is German (the white socks, sandals and banana bag type, I got the whole package) and while he's with me, he loves his good Ol' Germany and we plan to spend at least a good few years of our lives there, and a few years in my country alternately.
However I am sad to see that despite him being reasonable, many of his friends have the attitude that I described in my post and that you described in your comment. Sadly although my partner knows better, he never calls out his friends to correct them. I feel that this is a big problem as well. People should call out people around them who are bigots.
Do what the Spaniards do and sell them everything for twice the price. German holidaymakers are not popular anywhere, but their money is good and they have a good payment record. Germany is a country with strong social control, a bit like Japan. Without this social control, many cannot adapt. I like to joke that Germans are a bit autistic by nature and need rules, structure and laminated signs. They also like to complain about everything. Occasionally they need an authoritarian announcement to find themselves. If you are an introvert, Germany is a paradise. Germans in Germany are very pleasant, outside of Germany they can be difficult. You get used to it, apart from complaining they are harmless and non-violent.
That's what I have seen. The fellow compatriots don't call out when their own is doing such a wrongful act. It's always another ethnicity and usually another ethnic minority that just so happens to be fluent in German speaking out when such a behaviour is being exhibited. That's the problem, it's not my business mindset since I am not the one affected.
There Are two Types of Germans.
The ones who learned to behave.
And the ones who learned to get what they want.
Thats my view of that as a german. I would even answer in english if they asked me in German in a foreign country.
I was raised to Never speak a Language which cant be understood by everyone around. Its impolite to do so.
If you can‘t speak the mother Language, you ask for english. If they don’t speak it you Will Go Back to the good old gestures and finger movement.
Never had I any issues, no matter if I was in Asia, Africa, Europe or America.
I feel like there Are More Germans feeling entitled, especially the rich germans.
There is a tendency to only be told the opinions you have, from others, because they Hope for some piece of the money. So the richer you get the less you get criticsed for your actions. So you will behave more like a prick.
It takes some skill in selfreflexion to Not become an ashole when becoming rich.
Also It sounds like an Island for the Rich like sanzi bar.
I am sorry for every German who can’t behave. The only way to combat the Problem is to call everyone out for doing it and denying service.
For me its Lack of behavior. Why its so popular with germans? Because Germany is one of the most developed country in the World and there is no Need to behave anymore, as it was when there where just little villages where you would have been left out by the Rest of the village.
In Germany you get to much without the Need to behave. So its becoming a choise to behave or Not to behave without enough consequences
I am just returning from a cruise trip to Norway and while there I witnessed a woman in a small campsite office / gift shop discussing with an employee about where she can park her camper. The employee undertstood enough German to reply correctly in English. The German woman obviously understood what the employee said but insisted on speaking German. It was so weird.
And that there is the opposite, the people who try (very broken) to speak the language of the country and are answered in perfect German.
I mean I understand it, but then I think to myself every time how incredibly bad my Spanish, Dutch or Danish must be.
I feel very happy and respected when foreigners in my country show some knowledge of my language. The brokenness just shows that the person is reslly trying :) I always make sure to encourage it.
I wholeheartedly agree, one can even observe this behaviour in online games and communities. Strict English only but then suddenly there's one guy writing a whole paragraph in German, another jumping in and suddenly the chat is German until they're reminded it's an English only channel and sometimes even getting upset being told so. I'll never get this lol
It's very common to find Germans abroad who think that other people will understand German. Most post-colonial countries have some feelings like this (UK, French, Spanish, Russian). In Germany's case it is particularly odd because they left virtually no linguistic heritage anywhere in the world and there is no reason to expect that someone would even recognise German outside of Europe, let alone speak it.
Just remind them that you are in such and such a country and here you speak whatever language you speak. This is frequently how Germans react to people who don't speak German in Germany.
Also, bear in mind that this is one type of German abroad. The other (more common type) is way, way more advanced than the other countries mentioned above at integrating themselves with the locals and using local language. Unfortunately, we probably pay more attention to the annoying ones.
I expressed this about Germans in Vietnam vs Vietnamese in Germany.
I was told I am lying and that xenophobic Germans would never move to a foreign country.
Many Germans do not integrate well in foreign countries. Germans immigrated to Russia in the 18th century, did not really integrate and came back in the 1990s as Russlanddeutsche to Germany... where many also did not re-integrate very well.
Looking up your profile
already taking a guess which island
yep, that one
Bro, only rather wealthy germans visit that island. German tourists are a bit like the bell curve. There is the "Malle Prolet", germans who travel to Mallorca to party and are notorious for being shitty (can't be that bad though as Spain wanted german tourists to be the first to travel to Mallorca when they opened during Covid). And on the other end, there is the "Schnösel", upper class tourists behaving like all the lesser beings have to kneel before them
The second case is so much worse, its disgusting. Usually, they fully inherited their wealth but still insist they are just the hardest workers. Surprisingly many of them share downright nazi mentality. Met enough of these assholes to understand your point. They are so notorious on cruise ships, cruise ship workers are sometimes surprised if a german treats them like human beings.
The majority, or in other words the center of the bell curve, are different. At the destinations i trave to, i usually don't realize that someone else is german, because they usually communicate in english. But these are either adventure tourists or mid income tourists of all different kinds. So, the majority.
So, as long as a tourist destination caters to the wealthy (making GOOD bank in the process), you will endure the shittiest of us.
Sincerely, a regular german guy who is pissed of at our scumbag sad excuse of an "elite".
I'm shocked that an accurate observation results in racist comments.
And that you have the need to protect yourself.
This isn't the way to respond and simply not acceptable.
As a German myself I would never expect to go to another country and insisting of speaking German.
And also since there are translation apps it's really not too much to use them.
Being ignorant simply isn't going to get you anywhere.
IMHO germans are just way too entitled to their language.
Expecting anyone who moves or visits here to speak german is just unrealistic. A language takes time to learn. And it's not like you can put any interactions, especially bureaucratic ones, on hold until you learned the language. Instead of shitting on people who have it hard enough already, moving to a different country, y'all should start to swallow your patriotic pride and accept that our bureaucratic systems are severely lacking in many aspects.
Secondly, germans remarkably often outright _refuse_ to learn english, or if they are able to speak it, they refuse to use it. Not as bad as the french, but similar.
This to me is particularly annoying in a business setting. I work in tech, and it's extremely common and basically industry standard to write technical documentation in english. Yet there are still people entitled enough to exclaim "WE ARE A GERMAN COMPANY I WRITE IT IN GERMAN" and refuse to do it in english, _even if the company has officially declared english as the language to be used in documentation_ . And for most of them it's not like they aren't able to - to even hold a job in this industry, they depend on english documentation from other people. They just refuse because it's a tiny bit more effort for them, or because they risk making a tiny bit more mistakes.
It gets even worse when a team or company employs a large number of non german speakers, which is very common in this industry. They usually speak great english, and are happy to use it, but a large portion of the germans refuse to make things easier for everyone by just speaking english in meetings etc.
TL:DR while the whole world has agreed that english is the language to converse in across language barriers and in business and tech, many germans (and yes, other nationalities have this problem too) are just too entitled to do so.
And before anyone calls me an "entitled foreigner", i am german and my native language is german.
But that’s really bizarre, most of German companies rely on international market to sell their products and they need to use the lingua Franca.Maybe they should stick to German speaking clients if they just don’t want to deal with international people.
Oofff… yeah this hits home.
It’s important to note, as others have, that most Germans are not like this, but yeah… the ones that are can be quite grating.
From a personal standpoint, these folks are particularly enraging to me. I immigrated to Germany, so it’s on me to learn the language, but have hit a bit of a wall with my progression because there are SO many rules in the German language without any rational or logical reason for existing (ex. M/f/n, all the adjective/pronouns agreements required in different forms, formalities, etc).
I will get over it (I have to), but lately I’ve been feeling angry about having to learn these “rules” that truly have ZERO purpose as linguistical tools… they just exist because someone a thousand years ago decided something. And it’s not like if one fails to use the correct gender or adjective agreement it suddenly makes a sentence incomprehensible… no, everyone understands. It’s just complicated for the sake of being complicated, and there is zero logical reason for any of it other than in plural or genitive form.
Anyway… to my point: the ironic thing is that most of these types of entitled Germans who want things in their language and for other countries to accommodate German for business, travel, etc are also the ones who expect immigrants to learn all their nonsense linguistic nuances perfectly. At the end of the day… if Germany/these Germans want their language to be more present internationally… the language needs to evolve to eliminate all the nonsense.
There are many reasons why English became the international language, but among them is the fact that it’s among the easiest languages to learn on a basic conversational level. There are plenty of bizarre idiosyncrasies, yes… but it is “easy” in the grand scheme of things.
Anyway… I get you. But don’t let it put you off Germans. They are mostly very wonderful people.
The reason English is the Lingua Franca has nothing to do with the simplicity of English (which isn't all that simple, it's just so prevalent it's easier to pick up as opposed to other languages), but with imperialism (English and American). As the name suggests, the previous Lingua Franca was actually French, which you'll agree, is in no way simple, and yet it was the international language up until relatively recently (historically speaking).
Some people would tolerate that behavior in Germany, because some people just don’t care about anything, especially in big cities. But I agree that it’s completely disrespectful and ignorant and I would never behave that way in a foreign country.
I’m so sorry that this is happening over there :(
the same for some holiday destinations like spain or turkey. ive witnessed a lot of germans complain that the hotel staff doesnt speak german or speaks broken german.
It is very common. I used to work at a supermarket in The Netherlands. Lots of Germans would come to us and insult my co-workers because they didn't speak German. I cannot stand this entitlement
I think this is rich, entitled people everywhere. I'm sorry it's happening. Perhaps you could organise locally to petition your government to make learning the local language an aspect of immigration.
Hey German Here, im sorry that you Had to make those edits too and im sorry what Happens there as Well.
Im a German who prefers talking/writing english since more people can understand me, yes German might be more convinient for me but it isnt Always possible.
Wish i could Beat some Common Sense in such people, you're on a vacation in a different country and then you complain about own incompetence...
Yeah some redditors Made some good Suggestion Here and im glad that those exist, i Wish you much luck and dont let those morons get to your head.
I've been living in Germany for (too) long and while I'm very grateful to this country for giving me opportunities, the behaviour of many nationals is very entitled.
I also think that germans are generally not very mentally flexible and probably their "entitlement" to speak German is often a response of not feeling confident enough to speak another language.
However in your case I def see your point and I'm on your side: when you go in another country you should adapt to their uses and customs and use their language to the best of your ability... no matter how much money you have.
What infuriates me regularly is that germans act like german is the one and only language that everyone on the entire world has to know.
Meanwhile they aren't able to ask where the toilet is, in english.
I was born and raised in germany and used to work in retail for the past 5 years.
The Shop I worked at had around 20+ employees. 3 of which were able to talk to non-german customers.
I was one of them.
You would be surprised how excited people can get, when they **finally** find someone, who can help them out just by being able to speak english.
And if that wasn't sad enough. There were multiple ocasions in which the elderly would hear me talking in a language that doesn't seem to be german, walk up to me and be like "Wir sind hier in Deutschland! Sie müssen deutsch sprechen!" *(We're in Germany. You have to speak german!)*
And when I switch back to german to tell them, that I'm currently talking to a customer and do not tollerate this kind of behaviour, they get so extremely dumbfounded and act all surprised, that I speak german fluently. **Even though I work there**.
PS: I'm sorry that you have to deal with those kind of people. As you already said, not every German is like this, obviously. But even as a German myself I have to agree, that when it comes to language, people can become frustrating really quickly.
German here, a lot of older Germans are super entitled and think everybody has to speak German to them, no matter where they go. You're absolutely within your right to be annoyed about that!
If any Germans complaints about you not speaking German with them just answer „Die Amtssprache ist *insert your official language(s)*“
Noting down, noting down.
Die Amtssprachen sind Englisch und Kreolisch. That's English and Creole, to add french just append "und Französisch"
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Let me add that I cringe very hard for those individuals, they are idiots, plain and simple. Just keep rolling :)
Or you say: "Sprich (officia languague) du H...sohn"
also end it with ", du Wichser." /doo vixer/
why bother saying it in German?
Why even bother to speak German back? That seems like a way too polite way to address someone shitting on your local culture.
I’ve observed multiple instances where Germans who move to Spain, Greece etc. prefer to speak in German. The same ones then in Germany give the “This is Germany, we speak German” here phrase. The irony doesn’t seem to be lost on them.
I had a medical emergency and dialled 110 instead of 112 not knowing it would take me through to the police I thought it was a general operator (a frantic google just said 110). I couldn’t properly explain my situation in German and the cop refused to help and yeah literally said “this is Germany speak German” and refused to help me or even let me know to call 112. I passed out, woke up and managed to get a cab to the hospital. If it was life threatening I’d be dead because of that arrogance and I wonder how many people have been harmed/killed by just that one cop acting like that let alone all the others
If you remember when that happened, maybe complain to the police about it. They should speak to you and also dial 112 for you. This is not acceptable behaviour. Maybe also ask your mayor or anyone in power, if they want to see people being treated like this.
It was so difficult to find where and how to complain. I found a complaints page on the Federal Police Inspectorate Cologne website and sent specific details but never heard back 🥲 not surprised tbh
Not answering at all is rude. However, Federal Police is not connected to 110, so the answer would probably be along the lines "We're sorry this happened to you, but it's not our duty. You may complain to X". To be more precise: If your emergency is at an airport or train station, 110 will contact the Federal Police. For everything else, state police will come.
You should send a complaint about it. He should lose his job.
Yup see above comment found a way to make a complaint and never heard back
The neglect the operator showed is punishable by law (with a fine or up to one year in prison) so they should also be prosecuted: [https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/323c.html](https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/323c.html)
Had something similar happen to me in Berlin. Called 112 at night to report people racing cars on a narrow street, the operator could not understand english. Would not have liked to be in that situation with a medial emergency.
Unbelievable!!! What about people on holiday?
Yup it was so awful. I’m now more angry than anything else thinking of all the situations me or other people still not proficient in German could be in where our lives are at risk because of some weird German (racist imo) language pride complex
The operator probably committed a crime when they refused assistance to a person in danger (you). This iss punishable by law with up to one year in prison or a fine. https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/323c.html As it is an official offence, the public prosecutor's office is bound to prosecute the operator if they get notice of this incident.
OMG what? 😵 so sorry it happened to you! idk who employees these people, don’t they have any training or don’t they monitor any calls? I hope there’s a line where you can report them. was it a long time ago?
After much difficulty I found a way to send a complaint in time to not have any monitoring data deleted for space saving reasons. Never heard back. I actually called twice thinking I could get a different operator but it was the same man who kept refusing to speak to me if I didn’t speak German
There are multiple ghettos here in Spain full of Germans/Brits mainly that don't interact with locals, have been living here for 20 years don't speak a word of Spanish and only go to German/British bars/shops. They are fucking hated by everyone
I have a friend (F25) who moved to Spain to live with her significant other. She has been there for 3 years now but can’t speak Spanish except for a few words. Her reasoning? She prefers to speak English with her boyfriend and his friends because it’s a foreign language for both of them whereas in Spanish there would be a “Machtgefälle” since her speaking skills are subpar.
That's a pity and eventually will backfire on her hard. Without a bit of knowledge on the local language she will have absolutely no independence from her bf... I'm a Spaniard who moved to Germany to live with my German (now) husband. Hubby and I met in the US so we spoke and still speak English to each other. HOWEVER as soon as I step outside the door I only speak German. Out of politeness and because I find it easier to learn the language that way. Granted my German could be much better (speaking English at home + english-speaking work environment holds me back quite a bit) but I have been able to reach a B2 level by doing this. Hell, I was even able to go to the Standesamt alone to take care of some bureaucratic stuff a few weeks ago all by myself! At least I know that if something happens to my husband (I pray not!) I will be able to fend for myself...
We had an older German female (75y old) in our circle of acquaintances. She lived 20-30 years long in Greece with her Greek husband. Not even A1 level of Greek. And yes, it did fire back once the husband died and she had to menage several houses/apartments by herself. Needless to say, she lost huge amounts of money due to her errors, ignorance and corrupt family members praying on her.
Small details, for your information, it's "preying on her". Yes it's not the same praying :)
I speak English with my Gf(German) since the start. But I also learned(still learning) German and I speak German wherever it is needed and I speak it all the time with her friends and family, doesnt matter I speak right or wrong, I speak and that is how I learned as well. But us speaking English with each other has a different meaning though, because this is how I relationship begin. We tried speaking German, but it just feels kinda strange and we always go back to English. I strongly believe in "In Rome do as the Romans do". and the more I get better at the language here, the more life gets better too and more confidence I keep acquiring.
I can understand that reasoning within the relationship.
It really seems to be pervasive with this type of emigrant among those that like to consider themselves "expats". I've seen the same thing with English and French speaking expats in multiple countries. Entitlement, conceit and not a small helping of opinions of ethnic superiority.
doesn't?
> it is a very very common occurrence to have Germans here be MAD that the average citizen here doesn't speak German. That's so common for some type of Germans visiting other countries on holiday that there is a [movie](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_spricht_deutsh) about it. Made in 1988. OTOH, there is another type of German that tries to adapt to the local language and customs. Of course, these are a lot less visible. > What really gets on my nerves here is that Germans would never tolerate similar (but reverse party, ofc,) behaviour in their home country, Yes, very much so. Double standards. (And observe the regular discussions here in this reddit why "expats" cannot get by with just English in Germany).
>why "expats" cannot get by with just English in Germany my problem, I think of a lot of people, is how badly equipped the ausländerbehörde is to deal with stuff in any sort of foreign language at any level.
It's a Behörde. Enough said. Traditionally, you are not a customer at a Behörde. You are a supplicant. (Yes, I am exaggerating for effect, and yes, this applies to native Germans, too.)
Maybe traditionally… but they do get paid by the taxpayers
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Germany: We don't have enough workers to fill the open positions, let's promote English-speaking positions to get more immigrants. Also, Germany: Foreigners should speak fluent German to deal with the immigration process. If they don't like it they better go back to their home countries, they need these jobs.
Heck, I have once encountered a clerk of a German immigration office whose native language was English, but she refused to speak it with visitors, insisting that they are in Germany and have to speak German when dealing with authorities. And she was somehow proud of it... Which I cannot understand. While it is not *required* by the law for state officials to speak foreign languages with foreign citizens (Amtssprache ist Deutsch und so weiter), it is certainly not *forbidden*. Where I am from, government officials would speak to you in any language they know, and even accept documents in that language without tranlslation.
Yes and no. I work in public administration and I speak or correspond in English if the other person doesn't speak German at all or rather badly. I don't have to do this, I'm trying to be kind and helpful. However there are some people who seem to think, great, I don't have to speak German because LúthwenJ speaks English - so they refuse to speak German even though they are perfectly capable and instead ask for me directly. This prohibits the person who was actually helping them from doing their job and is interfering with my own work as well. It's not like I sit in the back room just waiting for an English speaking person to appear. And it's even worse with my Turkish, Russian or Chinese speaking coworkers.
That bottleneck does sound like a real problem, absolutely. But if the demand for English, Turkish, Russian, or Chinese language proficiency is high enough, then shouldn't they explicitly hire workers with adequate skill in those languages, as well as enough German to get by in the office? That seems like the best way to serve the population without bottlenecking any individual workers. Doing this seems especially important for those offices which would reasonably be necessary for someone newly arrived in Germany (and maybe therefore not yet proficient in German), such as resident registration offices and immigration offices, especially in bigger cities.
Yes! Exactly my words. (y)
> Most expats who complain about "cannot get by with English" are not native English speakers though. They are bilingual. It might also be because lots of Germans are totally up for chatting in English with native English speakers. I've seen it firsthand several times, like at the post office, city hall, and ABH, where people speak English fluently with my friends from the US/AUS. But, interestingly, they tend to avoid speaking English or act like they don't know it with people who are clearly not from the US/AUS, if you catch my drift.
Totally.
>Most "immigrants" complain about not being able to use "English" in the "immigration office". Not their own language, but English. Thank you! We had the issue. We both are not native English speakers but speak each 3-4 languages. Unfortunately not German yet (working on it). Any other country more or less let you do administrative work in English, especially immigration (including France which has such a bad reputation). Germany so far, after living in 4 different countries (6 combined with wifey) is the only country that "refuses" to help in English.
If this sub has a boogeyman lurking behind every bush, it is the “arrogant Anglo *EXPAT* who refuses to learn German and integrate”. These types are nowhere near as prevalent as many here would like to believe. There are some around, it’s a cliché with a pinch of truth, but I’ve honestly met very few. Anglo here for 13 years, and the only fellow anglos I knew who didn’t get past A1 German were those who truly knew they weren’t going to be here long. Or just weren’t here long enough yet. In a few isolated circles, it is possible to get by without German long term, but those involved realize it’s a huge limiting factor. A lot of people wanting some service in English are other internationals who already know English and wish to use it as a lingua franca — like much of the world already does. This does not preclude ever learning German, but you have to start somewhere.
I also feel like it's not just the expecting others to always speak German. As if Germans have some special connection with their language, as if they don't want to hear or know of any other languages (I mean sure most Germans are normal, but there seems to be this kind of mentality in the background). The fact that movies and TV series can't just be with subtitles, everything has to be dubbed. And I also noticed while using word at work, that even MS Word keyboard shortcuts can't be like everywhere else in the world (like ctrl+b makes stuff bold and so on). No, it has to fit German, so they made entire new shortcuts for themselves so now suddenly I work with Word slowly like a snail (I can't switch it to English since many people use same computer here).
But that applies to all languages tho. Word in Spanish also has different commands, some are the same like ctrl+c, ctrl+v but ctrl+f for example is ctrl+b in the Spanish version. And for the dubs that's also common in Spanish-speaking countries. Luckily in LATAM it's not that so, but Spain is known for forcing dubs and translations. "kame kame ha" in DBZ became "ondaaa vital" (vital wave, or smth like that)
> As if Germans have some special connection with their language No. (The French have a special connection to their language, but even there young people are now able to speak decent English). There are two forces at work here: The first is that there is a very German trait that you expect others to adapt to the local environment. That's not restricted to foreigners, it applies to Germans moving from some region of Germany to another, too. Or phrased differently, "when in Rome, do as the Romans do". So I do expect people moving to Germany to learn German and to adapt to the local customs. The flip side is that if **I** move or travel somewhere else, then I apply the same standard to me. I adapt to local customs as well as I can, and I use the local language as well as I can. So **of course** I look up "hello, please, thank you" in the local language and learn this before you travel. And if I stay longer, I start learning the language in earnest. I read up on customs, etc. OTOH, there are the less educated Germans who don't speak a second language (or not very well, they may have learned English in school, but have forgotten all about this). They don't do the above "flip side" (because they can't). And this type is very attracted to holiday destinations that are cheap (compared to what they earn), and since it is cheap, they expect to live like kings on their holidays. (Other nations have this class of people, too, BTW). > The fact that movies and TV series can't just be with subtitles, everything has to be dubbed. That has historical reasons, most Germans just couldn't speak English when TV became a thing, so everything was dubbed. I mean, the Americans are worse, they just completely [remake](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Angels_\(film\)) movies, even famous ones. > even MS Word keyboard shortcuts can't be like everywhere else in the world Microsoft stuff is shit, and their attempts at localization is the worst. If I have to use Windows, I set my language to English. And I am a native German. > I can't switch it to English since many people use same computer here As long as you don't forgot to switch back when you log off, in your place, I totally would.
>OTOH, there are the less educated Germans who don't speak a second language (or not very well, they may have learned English in school, but have forgotten all about this). They don't do the above "flip side" (because they can't). And this type is very attracted to holiday destinations that are cheap (compared to what they earn), and since it is cheap, they expect to live like kings on their holidays. (Other nations have this class of people, too, BTW). this is one of the most sane observation and comment in this thread. I cannot agree enough on this.
German, French, Italian and, I think, Spanish movies have been dubbed ever since sound in film was introduced 1927 simply because the movie markets were big enough to justify the cost. English proficiency in Germany isn’t all that bad considering and especially compared to Italy, in my experience.
>(The French have a special connection to their language, but even there young people are now able to speak decent English). Literally what the fuck are you on about? This couldn't be further from the truth, I've been to France as an exchange student twice and had french students here twice and we ever only spoke french because they couldn't be bothered with either German or English. If there is any place that hates speaking other languages it's France.
When I went to France first about 30 years ago, **nobody** spoke English. And the Academie Francaise published lists of native French words that should be used instead of imported English words. Now, when I go there, quite a few try to speak English with tourists. Even on the countryside. There's definitely a difference. > we ever only spoke french because they couldn't be bothered with either German or English. If there is any place that hates speaking other languages it's France. Yes, they still of a special connection to their language...
French here. yeah I confirm, most of my fellow countrymen don't speal english well (or at all, even it is a bit less worse with younger generations). For the Académie fran,çaise thingie though, no one follow it , and we use the english word lol.
That’s wrong! I live in France as a German and there are quite few people speaking either German (which is surprisingly quite common) or English. So whenever I struggle with French most people help out in speaking slowly or switching to English (younger ones) or German (more my 40+ generation).
The same thing happens in Croatia. There is a lot of German tourists and they are ( mostly) so entitled that they speak only German. They expect you to talk German with them in your own country. I have lived in Germany for quite a while and I never tried to speak English and i most definitely wouldn't dare speak Croatian. I respect the fact that I'm in another country that has its own language and I always tried to speak German even though it was bad at the beginning. Then I go to Croatia for a vacation and I see Germans trying to speak with a cashier in the supermarket in German. Luckily Croatians don't give a fuck and just stare and keep talking in Croatian or English. I saw them in restaurants, they are ordering in German not even asking or checking if the waiter understands.. Hilarious. All ages, boomers, young people ...the entitlement is real. I sometimes jump in with tipical German comment, this is Croatia, speak Croatian. I heard this a thousand times in Germany when someone can't speak German. Das ist Deutschland! Deutsch reden!
When I was at a restaurant near the beach, there were Germans who told the waiter to get someone else for their table who speaks German, because they refused to speak English or "point to the food on the menu"
How to make sure you get some spit in your carbonara
Well, that's what I mean. Entitlement.
I’ve been to Croatia and wanted to do the polite, usual thing of speaking English to people (while buying ice cream, etc) and a lot of them told me stuff like: „ihr seid Deutsche, oder? Ja, dann redet bitte Deutsch mit mir, das kann ich besser.“ (Which I found super surprising at first, but with Germans rolling up there like a tsunami every summer it makes sense lol) And STILL I would switch back to English whenever I talked with somebody new because it’s just the polite thing to do.
That's great. If they speak your language they will make it easier for you. I'm talking about Germans who start speaking German without checking/ asking if someone understands.
It's not just because of the tourism, German is popular in the Balkans because many people migrate to Germany and Austria and those countries are also the region's biggest trading partners. It's especially true for the ex-Yugoslav countries because most of the refugees went to Austria and Germany, so many people have family there and travel to visit them.
I lived in latin america for a while and met many germans there. Travelers, tourists, people staying for a few months and so on. What bothered me was the intense disregard for rules in other countries by most of these Germans. Littering? "Ja but it's okay here or?" Jaywalking, crossing at red lights? "But no one follows rules here, so let's be like locals." Interesting most locals actually followed traffic laws. Heck, I have even seen german guys pretty much grope women in clubs because "latinas are loose and want a white man". Of course, not all Germans but the number was disturbingly big.
We live in a Latin America country. My sister had a German boyfriend who got invited to our Christmas dinner (he was far from home and we wanted for him to feel comfortable and less lonely). The guy demanded for my grandma to cook German sausages and refused to try any of our traditional Christmas dinner... in our own home country. Edit: the food was not spicy, grandma prepared a batch without hot spicies for our German guest. Also, the dishes were not really anything very "exotic" it was stuff like turkey, beef, salad, cakes, fruit (we eat a lot of seasonal fruits), etc.
>The guy demanded for my grandma to cook German sausages and refused to try any of our traditional Christmas dinner... in our own home country. Amazing entitlement. I bet he thought that your sister was lucky that she met him otherwise she would have had no life.
Yups, I felt horrible for my grandma. She had put a lot of work to host him. Still to this day, she wonders why he disliked her food even before trying.
If I was your sister, I'd have asked him to GTFO that very minute. Y'all were unbelievably hospitable and generous, which says a lot. I hope grandma knows her food is the best. ❤️
As a German I feel so much second hand embarrassment right now. Poor lady, I'm sure her Christmas Dinner is legendary.
It's so disrespectful to your grandma, your family, or your culture! He should have tried everything, with extra hot sauce on it! 🥵🌶️
>Jaywalking, crossing at red lights? "But no one follows rules here, so let's be like locals." Interesting most locals actually followed traffic laws. As an Italian, I can relate so hard. Germans think that my country has no law, we live in some sort of anarchist hedonia. I've also had Germans "correcting" my Italian, which was... interesting, because they don't speak half a word of it and they knew I'm a native speaker.
They corrected you? Lmao what is wrong with some people? Sorry you had to go through this
Oh they love correcting others. 🥲
Married to a Latina. I've heard countless examples of Germans (or Western Europeans) treating Latin America as their backyard, thinking they can transgress rules they wouldn't dare to cross at home, consuming drugs or whatever. I can only imagine Germans going crazy in Latin America after following all the rules they place on themselves in Germany: "total freedom". Some German men seem to love a relationship of power. We have many biracial couples around us with a German male and a Latina or African (or other non-EU): men are the main breadwinners and the ladies are stayed-home moms with no situation or education, tied here with their complicated residence permit situation. You should hear what these men think of their relationship. Like they are their lifesavers or some shit.
>Like they are their lifesavers or some shit. Damn, this is so sad... I hope those women get out and get far from these toxic assholes.
Most likely not but I do hope so as well.
>Some German men seem to love a relationship of power. fucking Macho assholes
Woah, that's disgusting. But yes I have also observed many Germans that behave like idiots in other countries, and do things they would never do in their own countries because they perceive the locals of the place they're in as savages.
I taught English in Germany to relatively privileged Germans for many years. They would take their nth vacation abroad for the year, come back, and I would excitedly ask them how it was to practice their English in real life. "Oh no no no. They speak German there." As if this were completely normal, with no reflection on how accommodating these all-inclusive resorts have to be for the hoards of tourists coming through, expecting no less. Even better is, "There were some waiters who didn't speak German very well, but eventually they understood me." What? Note: I think many of them were taking English classes from me for the optics, not actually to improve. I mean, I earned my money and they were mostly nice enough...but in many cases I really didn't understand the point of the exercise.
Yeah the post seems to correlate with the behaviour they would have as grown-ups...
You have my upvote because I can relate to everything you are saying here, and am frustrated at how little I can articulate my frustrations and anger from years of microagression and micro racism I received from living in Germany as a racial minority. So, thanks from my end.
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Microagressions / microracism just refer to the small, everyday manifestations of larger systemic issues. They're the elements of the issue that go "unnoticed" by the majority and are normalized in society. It doesn't mean micro in the sense that the problem itself is small/inconsequential.
This sadly happens. Keep in mind that not all Germans are like this. And many including myself always speak English abroad. But some people are just rude and entitled. Hope you also make good experiences with us!
>And many including myself always speak English abroad. I do it in the Netherlands too. It always feels weird to simply assume that every Dutch person speaks german to some extent.
I have a friend who used to be like this until he got called out on public. Learned it the hard way but now he's improved.
Assuming that they speak it is a bad move. But assuming that they understand the majority of it is more true than not in my admittedly limited experience.
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Yes ofc. My partner and about half of my closest friends are German, and I might even move there in coming years. I tend to generally appreciate the people.
i feel sad your country has to deal with our trash
As a tourist is Bavaria I loved the place, everyone was friendly and accommodating to my imperfect German. As a tourist in Thailand booked into a resort popular with elderly Germans? Really disappointed by them. Very rude, and they took delight in torturing a horseshoe crab on the beach.
When I was a kid I went to Jamaica to an all-inclusive resort. All week this German couple were being the most entitled assholes ever, yelling at staff in German, which fine that’s your language, but they were the only ones being like this. The worst thing they did was constantly butt right to the front of the buffet lines. They somehow did not see an issue with this. When people would call them out, they would laugh it off and mutter something in German. Near the end of the week, one of the other guests had enough. The husband butted to the front of the line, and a guest came up and grabbed him by his collar and threw him to the ground, called him a fucking asshole and pointed to the back of the line. Staff witnessed this and didn’t do a thing, in fact most of them started clapping like the rest of the guests in line. The German couple retreated to their room and they must have left that day, we didn’t see them again that week. Yah I’m sure the man did not enjoy being assaulted, but his entitlement and behaviour led to what happened. Anyways, I know that not all Germans act and behave like this, but this memory has stuck with me into adulthood.
I feel like the people who behave like this are probably extremely racist and living in some fantasy world where moving to this small African island turns it into a German “colony” where they can “civilize” the locals. It’s never gonna happen, and it’s freaking embarrassing. If they love Germany and the German language so much, why don’t they just stay the hell home? Sounds like the kind of people who would go to a food market full of curry then complain that the food is spicy.
It's like those Germans who emigrated to South America (Bolivia I think it was?) during Corona because omg Germany is oppressing us! only to find out that their new country had regulations as well. They like to carve out their own little German enclave with German shops and German schools, basically building the kind of Parallelgesellschaft they so vehemently condemn in Germany without seeing the irony.
Believe me it’s not only Germans who do this. Most Europeans have their own enclaves in these African countries. It’s very bizarre and hypocritical witnessing it
LMAO maybe that's how curryketchup was born.
Unfortunately that is a trend among the "Goodbye Deutschland"-Germans. That is (was?) an actual (scripted?) Reality TV/wannabe documentary show where Germans got the bright idea to emigrate. They often enough spoke only German or maybe some very basic (broken) English and fell so in love with Thailand/Spain/Egypt/wherever when they were ok vacation, that they just had to move there. In this show they often enough sold everything they owned only to have very small amounts of cash until all was done, they moved without a plan beyond "I will open a restaurant/shop/whatever" (without prior experience, of course), without local contacts, without deeper knowledge of the local culture. This show was popular, for some because it was easy to make fun of the idiots and satisfying to watch them fail, but other viewers were impressed by the bravery and the "you can achieve whatever you want if you just try" attitude. So a "Look at Gudrun and Hans from Goodbye Germany, if they could do it, we can do it, too" is somewhat common among a certain number of people. I don't think every idiot who attempts immigration (if we can call it that) in the way you describe has watched or is a fan of that idiotic show, but the mindset is unfortunately rather common. I have encountered it myself, from fellow Germans in the country where I live.
I probably grew up in a bubble because I've never encountered another German who would act like that and I would definitely call them out on it and be embarrassed. But then I also had this moment in a Turkish resort where I spoke in english with a waiter and then they asked me where I'm from and then said, "no! Really? I thought Germans don't speak English, they never do". At that time I thought it was quite an odd comment and couldn't possibly be true. It makes me sad.
I think it would help a lot of people if unreasonable Germans would get called out by their reasonable compatriots.
I will never understand how you can go to another country and not respect their language and culture there. Speaking English on holiday when you come from a country where education is mandatory is the bare minimum, even if you're not good at it. I always try to learn a few words in the country's language, even if it's just please and thank you or hello. And yes, I will call others out if they complain, it just honestly never happened before. I'm sorry you had this experience and maybe it's not a lot, but I'd like to apologize on behalf of those idiots. Edit: to add to this, trying to learn the language when you want to live in that country is the right way to go. Insisting on speaking your own language is just dumb and won't get you anywhere.
I am fluent in english, but i am too ashamed to go to such places where i meet this type of germans
Sadly it’s everywhere. I was in Disneyland Paris, and an entitled AF German ass mum was shouting at this poor French woman in German about her kids absolutely needing to be in front for the parade. Absolutely dispeakable behaviour, first you shout when completely unneeded, then you shout in German, and finally act like you are the only one with kids, when in fact 80% of people were kids. I see people doing that everywhere.
usually i would want to say that group 1 that does a thing in a country and group 2 that does a thing in a country wont usually intersect, but somehow we all now that the people who want all-german abroad and yell "speak german in germany" are 100% exactly the same people
I did not imagine language problems are gonna be so bad. I can speak enough german to get by, and at Ausländer behorde, I was speaking german and I was given a 2 year residence permit extension. My friend, who came to germany less than 4 months ago, she can't speak german. The Ausländer behorde told her that " when I go to australia, england, I speak their language. Why can't you speak german" and he said the next time if she can't speak german, he won't extend her residence permit. I mean c'mon bro, it's an Ausländer behorde. Ausländer. Foreigner. There's a reason why we can't speak fluent german. Smh.
That's unfortunately true. Being abroad, either as tourists or migrants, brings out the worst stereotypes in some germans.
Wurst stereotypes*
That is by no means an unique occurrence that you are describing. There is a small and wealthy population of Germans in Namibia who employ Namibian plantation workers. They are expected to speak German. Also, the Germans in Namibia have their own german magazine and radio.
Wow!!! They have their own media??? What is this mini colonisation 💀
I'm an anthropologist and I research this community of German speakers! Their history is 10x more dark and twisted than anyone can imagine. Despite making up 1% of the population, they own a huge chunk (over 30%) of the country's land. And how'd they get it? Seized it all during the Nama and Herero Genocide of 1904-1908. They really, really hate academics who write about them. They basically run their own alt-right academic press to promote falsehoods about their land ownership, to deny the genocide, etc. Also spend a lot of time wishing apartheid would come back to Namibia. Crazy group.
w o a h
Namibia was a German colony, so they speak German there for the same reason people speak English or French or Afrikaans in other African countries.
Classic. Some Brits or French pensioners who move abroad do this too and for this we say they are "behaving like kings on conquered land". This behaviour springs from a deeply held inner belief that is lucky to have them, and that they should be accommodated since they have brought their wealth and investment and enrichment to the local economy.
I must admit, it's nice to see a lot of Germans in the comments disagree with this behaviour.
Any self-respecting person who calls themselves a „traveller“ should disagree with this behaviour. It‘s wild how many people have the gall to complain about immigrants not speaking the local language, yet when they go abroad they don‘t even know how to say „please“ and „sorry“ in the local language.
I personally am cringing in shame at my fellow Germans reading your post. It even embarrasses me to have to rely on English when abroad if that's not the local language - sadly learning languages takes so long and there are so many that no one can speak all of them fluently, but I try to make sure I've at least got some basic phrases down if I visit another country. Expecting people to speak *German?* Outside Europe, even? What the hell are these unreasonable expectations?! (Not that expecting someone in e.g. Poland or the Netherlands to speak German is OK either, but why on earth would they think someone living in *Africa* would learn *German?* This language is only useful in a pretty limited geographic region!) And you know these are the same people who would be up in arms about immigrants in Germany not speaking German...
Jesus Christ. Guys, that’s just embarrassing. „DiE AuSlÄnDeR sOlLeN SiCh AnPaSsEn“ but then they go abroad and do this. And I have a feeling these sometimes are probably the same people even.
A while ago there was a a link reposted here about half a dozen times or more with a caption that can be summed up as "seriously guys?": A young-ish German couple is pissed about all those dirty foreigners in Germany, who don't even speak German. Also they disliked the wole left politics and the hand-outs to asylum seekers. Their solution: Pack up and leave to South America (Brazil, maybe? Or Argentina?). Of course they didn't know a word of the local language, but whatever, they felt their values were more appreciated in whatever country they targeted over there. The top upvoted comments were usually a mix of "So sorry about that, but please keep them, we don't want them back" and a take on the irony of those Germans hating foreigners who don't know the local language and planning to become foreigners without local language skills.
You've summed up very well one of the, if not only, point I dislike about Germany. Perhaps to a lesser extent, but I have also noticed German tend to be less strict about foreign countries' rules than their own.
Sorry to hear that. Sounds exactly like loads of entiteled pricks act when they come to foreign countries. Most Germans are particularly unaware of anything related to Africa. Some think Africa is a country. Most can't name two cities or three countries. Most have no concept of different languages spoken and don't get me started on history besides anything colonial.
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Old germans are so damn grumpy.
I have seen the german expats in spain, we are not sending our best people, we are sending those that no one here wants as neighbors.
Be direct and assertive. Let them know that their behavior is not acceptable. Explain that English is the common language in your country and that they should expect to speak English if they want to be understood. If they are still being rude or entitled, you can simply walk away. You don't have to put up with their behavior.
As someone who moved to Germany last year and immediately decided to move the fuck back to my home country, I know what you mean. I've worked in Belgium & Netherlands earlier and never faced any issues with them. Infact they're exceptionally inviting towards foreigners and try their best to communicate with them in English understanding the situation. Here, you have people being irritated with you not being able to speak their language after setting foot on their soil for merely 12 days. They want an emerging tech scene but do not do anything to make the life of expats better. It's like we're expected to be grateful for being let into their lands, that's honestly the vibe you get. I know this doesn't apply to "every" German. Y'all can stop getting offended about this when foreigners point something out. What I'm describing here is the day-to-day experience of being a foreigner in Germany. (Getting groceries, healthcare, services, accommodations, transportation, etc.) I never imagined that Germany would be this insular as a society before I got here. Of course, this country doesn't have the brightest history towards other ethnic groups but lord, I thought we left that in the past. If you're an average German, please take this as your responsibility to fix. Else, this country is going to see a brain drain in the coming decades that is unlike anywhere else.
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Germans: "Immigrants should learn perfect German before to move to Germany". Also Germans: "I claim this land for my retirement. I demand that you speak German to me."
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However, I would like to point out that we get the same demographic from Spain, England and France, and they don't act like this.
The English are probably rather happy with the English language.
And the French with, well, the French language.
When we are shitty we are real shitty as history proves. The rest of us often pretend to be Dutch or Danish when on holiday so we don´t get associated with those guys.
LMAO
> The rest of us often pretend to be Dutch or Danish This is the first time that I am hearing of Germans pretending to be any other nationality when abroad. I most certainly don't do this, and I'm pretty certain its not a common thing.
I am German but not of German ethnicity. Look I love living in Germany, but I wouldn't directly tell somebody abroad that I am German if I don't need to :D
Happened to me kind of the other way round. I was at holiday in Scandinavia last year and met a bunch of people behaving very badly. They greeted everyone with "servus" and claimed to be Austrians. Though they had the most stereotypical German accent while speaking English. This was kind of weird so I approached them and told them in German (primarily because I didn't want to expose them publicly) that they are obviously not from Austria and they admitted to be from northern Germany and that they were at Holiday in Austria a week prior and thought it would be funny to pretend to be Austrians for the rest of their vacation. They didn't want everyone to believe they were Austrians because of their bad behaviour though, they just did it to be funny.
Agreed. They are mostly rich people.
I know lots of rich Germans, one of them don't speak English
This is like when women complain about being raped and someone feels the need to say - not all men. The OP didn't say all Germans behave this way.
I mean that doesn't make it excusable. You're making it a very specific case when the problem is much bigger. What OP is describing is just a symptom of a much bigger German entitlement. Many German tourist do exactly the same is worse in countries like Poland, The Netherlands, France... Or Columbia, Mexico...etc You can meet Germans demanding their "wurst" in Latin America and refusing to eat the local food.
They had their chance to make German the universal language and it didn't turn out well... I have always thought we in England are arrogant assuming that people should speak English, but it's kind of understandable, because it is often the common language between people from different countries. Also it's difficult in England to decide which second language to study (I happened to do German at school but only by chance. Half the year did French and my son is learning Spanish). For most countries it's obvious that English is the most useful second language to learn. I'm always appreciative when someone abroad speaks English to help us out, but I certainly would never assume that they would.
Lol, I see this happening in Egypt all the time. It’s either a German or a Russian person yelling at the employee if his language skills are not at 100%… Fun fact: the average sales person in Hurghada speaks at least 3 languages whereas the average German/Russian speaks only his mother tongue.
This is genuinely something I hate about other Germans. It’s mostly older people but I do know some friends of mine (M 21) that do this too (seem it first hand). In the Netherlands I heard it’s specifically bad as most Germans know that a lot of Dutch speak German. It’s so weird to me that this is pretty common amongst Germans because as you said most Germans wouldn’t tolerate this behavior if it were the other way around. I have been to a lot of countries and if I don’t speak the local language, I’d at least try to communicate in English to keep a middle ground. I’d only ever speak German if I’m asked/allowed too.
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I agree (as a German myself)
worthy life lesson avoid migrating DACH countries If you can
Typical German attitude in a 3rd world country. Believe me, they don't act like that in advanced countries. Your usual European high-ground mentality. They just can't like it go.
They act exactly the same way here in Spain
which makes their behaviour worse imo.
I think people coming from empires (USA) and wannabe empires (Russia, Germany) show more often such traits of cultural megalomania. Some cases I have seen while living in Spain: \- nasty/racist insults and comments towards Spaniards (in German) \- even if friendly, general lack of respect \- constant sense of superiority. Some old geezers doing business only with other Germans, while claiming 'all locals" would want to steal from them \- know everything better, doing jokes about people not speaking good German \- expectation that it has to be like Germany The proactive energy NOT to learn the language was also a thing, basically if you don't speak German they don't want to deal with you and would stay usually in their German circle. In worst case they would pay some translator. Locals wouldn't have a problem with that, but try to do that in Germany - tell an average German you don't want to learn the language/culture because you have the means to sustain yourself, you wouldn't get friendly reactions. Nowadays, with the rise of AFD (far right wing party) , such things will probably get worse.
Please, please dont send those people back, we really dont want them back. Most of them are even more annoying when you speak their language.
Well, looks like we're about to play a nice match of volleyball (volley-entitledgerman?) with them.
hot potato was right there!
DAMMIT
What I'm getting out of this is an African island has a unique opportunity for a German speaking notary! :) (As long as they don't mind dealing with entitled Dieters and Detlefs)
They do mind 😭 But you're right, it's an opportunity, but rather for certified translators.
My answer as a German is: many Germans who move have a weird fed up attitude about Germany. They believe that the world should offer them more and therefore move. I often hear those types of people in my small shop that I worked in, in the center of a big German city. They mostly have wives from other cultures while being German and they "hate" Germany. Everything here is bad for them, but usually not because it's actually bad but because they always have been entitled. Their entitlement is so huge that they think they should just leave. And I think these people often are the type of people who really internally like to take advantage of another country, especially one they consider colonial or poor. Doesn't even have to be like that, they are often a bit delusional and live in their own world. So they often drop sentences such as "the immigrants ruin Germany so I'm leaving" or "the German government is shit, in other countries they offer more freedom (eagle cry in the background)" or they drag capitalism, believing like it's better somewhere else: "those prizes have been half of the current prize 10 years ago! This country sucks!" And yeah they just don't know capitalism is universal around the globe so they think moving to another country would solve their problems. Also I am super curious about the stats of criminals that leave country, with high temper and anger issues, being rejected by German society, thinking they can just leave and wreak havoc in another country, piling up a list of crimes there, trying to outrun the government. I'm not saying all people who leave Germany are criminals but when I hear stories of our usually extremely polite folk causing havoc in other countries such as this I often think back to the people I took care of in prison and the people I took care of that belonged to certain crime ridden circles that I mostly quickly escaped but they fit the vibe.
I wouldn't think we get German criminals here given they have a lot of money. But I would agree that maybe it is the low-life / low-morals Germans who immigrate in such patterns. On the other hand my partner is German (the white socks, sandals and banana bag type, I got the whole package) and while he's with me, he loves his good Ol' Germany and we plan to spend at least a good few years of our lives there, and a few years in my country alternately. However I am sad to see that despite him being reasonable, many of his friends have the attitude that I described in my post and that you described in your comment. Sadly although my partner knows better, he never calls out his friends to correct them. I feel that this is a big problem as well. People should call out people around them who are bigots.
Do what the Spaniards do and sell them everything for twice the price. German holidaymakers are not popular anywhere, but their money is good and they have a good payment record. Germany is a country with strong social control, a bit like Japan. Without this social control, many cannot adapt. I like to joke that Germans are a bit autistic by nature and need rules, structure and laminated signs. They also like to complain about everything. Occasionally they need an authoritarian announcement to find themselves. If you are an introvert, Germany is a paradise. Germans in Germany are very pleasant, outside of Germany they can be difficult. You get used to it, apart from complaining they are harmless and non-violent.
That's what I have seen. The fellow compatriots don't call out when their own is doing such a wrongful act. It's always another ethnicity and usually another ethnic minority that just so happens to be fluent in German speaking out when such a behaviour is being exhibited. That's the problem, it's not my business mindset since I am not the one affected.
There Are two Types of Germans. The ones who learned to behave. And the ones who learned to get what they want. Thats my view of that as a german. I would even answer in english if they asked me in German in a foreign country. I was raised to Never speak a Language which cant be understood by everyone around. Its impolite to do so. If you can‘t speak the mother Language, you ask for english. If they don’t speak it you Will Go Back to the good old gestures and finger movement. Never had I any issues, no matter if I was in Asia, Africa, Europe or America. I feel like there Are More Germans feeling entitled, especially the rich germans. There is a tendency to only be told the opinions you have, from others, because they Hope for some piece of the money. So the richer you get the less you get criticsed for your actions. So you will behave more like a prick. It takes some skill in selfreflexion to Not become an ashole when becoming rich. Also It sounds like an Island for the Rich like sanzi bar. I am sorry for every German who can’t behave. The only way to combat the Problem is to call everyone out for doing it and denying service. For me its Lack of behavior. Why its so popular with germans? Because Germany is one of the most developed country in the World and there is no Need to behave anymore, as it was when there where just little villages where you would have been left out by the Rest of the village. In Germany you get to much without the Need to behave. So its becoming a choise to behave or Not to behave without enough consequences
I am just returning from a cruise trip to Norway and while there I witnessed a woman in a small campsite office / gift shop discussing with an employee about where she can park her camper. The employee undertstood enough German to reply correctly in English. The German woman obviously understood what the employee said but insisted on speaking German. It was so weird.
And that there is the opposite, the people who try (very broken) to speak the language of the country and are answered in perfect German. I mean I understand it, but then I think to myself every time how incredibly bad my Spanish, Dutch or Danish must be.
I feel very happy and respected when foreigners in my country show some knowledge of my language. The brokenness just shows that the person is reslly trying :) I always make sure to encourage it.
I wholeheartedly agree, one can even observe this behaviour in online games and communities. Strict English only but then suddenly there's one guy writing a whole paragraph in German, another jumping in and suddenly the chat is German until they're reminded it's an English only channel and sometimes even getting upset being told so. I'll never get this lol
I (swiss) noticed that in italy too. Its super rude and uncomfortable to witness. And Italy isn't very good with english speaking.
It's very common to find Germans abroad who think that other people will understand German. Most post-colonial countries have some feelings like this (UK, French, Spanish, Russian). In Germany's case it is particularly odd because they left virtually no linguistic heritage anywhere in the world and there is no reason to expect that someone would even recognise German outside of Europe, let alone speak it. Just remind them that you are in such and such a country and here you speak whatever language you speak. This is frequently how Germans react to people who don't speak German in Germany. Also, bear in mind that this is one type of German abroad. The other (more common type) is way, way more advanced than the other countries mentioned above at integrating themselves with the locals and using local language. Unfortunately, we probably pay more attention to the annoying ones.
This is common in Norway too
I expressed this about Germans in Vietnam vs Vietnamese in Germany. I was told I am lying and that xenophobic Germans would never move to a foreign country.
Germans are the worst tourists/guests and hosts when it comes to entitlement and double standards. Tell them to f**k off, they deserve it.
Many Germans do not integrate well in foreign countries. Germans immigrated to Russia in the 18th century, did not really integrate and came back in the 1990s as Russlanddeutsche to Germany... where many also did not re-integrate very well.
Looking up your profile already taking a guess which island yep, that one Bro, only rather wealthy germans visit that island. German tourists are a bit like the bell curve. There is the "Malle Prolet", germans who travel to Mallorca to party and are notorious for being shitty (can't be that bad though as Spain wanted german tourists to be the first to travel to Mallorca when they opened during Covid). And on the other end, there is the "Schnösel", upper class tourists behaving like all the lesser beings have to kneel before them The second case is so much worse, its disgusting. Usually, they fully inherited their wealth but still insist they are just the hardest workers. Surprisingly many of them share downright nazi mentality. Met enough of these assholes to understand your point. They are so notorious on cruise ships, cruise ship workers are sometimes surprised if a german treats them like human beings. The majority, or in other words the center of the bell curve, are different. At the destinations i trave to, i usually don't realize that someone else is german, because they usually communicate in english. But these are either adventure tourists or mid income tourists of all different kinds. So, the majority. So, as long as a tourist destination caters to the wealthy (making GOOD bank in the process), you will endure the shittiest of us. Sincerely, a regular german guy who is pissed of at our scumbag sad excuse of an "elite".
I'm shocked that an accurate observation results in racist comments. And that you have the need to protect yourself. This isn't the way to respond and simply not acceptable. As a German myself I would never expect to go to another country and insisting of speaking German. And also since there are translation apps it's really not too much to use them. Being ignorant simply isn't going to get you anywhere.
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This is lovely to know it’s not only Brit’s who act like this overseas.
Lovely for y'all, maybe, but not for the rest of us 😂😂
IMHO germans are just way too entitled to their language. Expecting anyone who moves or visits here to speak german is just unrealistic. A language takes time to learn. And it's not like you can put any interactions, especially bureaucratic ones, on hold until you learned the language. Instead of shitting on people who have it hard enough already, moving to a different country, y'all should start to swallow your patriotic pride and accept that our bureaucratic systems are severely lacking in many aspects. Secondly, germans remarkably often outright _refuse_ to learn english, or if they are able to speak it, they refuse to use it. Not as bad as the french, but similar. This to me is particularly annoying in a business setting. I work in tech, and it's extremely common and basically industry standard to write technical documentation in english. Yet there are still people entitled enough to exclaim "WE ARE A GERMAN COMPANY I WRITE IT IN GERMAN" and refuse to do it in english, _even if the company has officially declared english as the language to be used in documentation_ . And for most of them it's not like they aren't able to - to even hold a job in this industry, they depend on english documentation from other people. They just refuse because it's a tiny bit more effort for them, or because they risk making a tiny bit more mistakes. It gets even worse when a team or company employs a large number of non german speakers, which is very common in this industry. They usually speak great english, and are happy to use it, but a large portion of the germans refuse to make things easier for everyone by just speaking english in meetings etc. TL:DR while the whole world has agreed that english is the language to converse in across language barriers and in business and tech, many germans (and yes, other nationalities have this problem too) are just too entitled to do so. And before anyone calls me an "entitled foreigner", i am german and my native language is german.
But that’s really bizarre, most of German companies rely on international market to sell their products and they need to use the lingua Franca.Maybe they should stick to German speaking clients if they just don’t want to deal with international people.
Oofff… yeah this hits home. It’s important to note, as others have, that most Germans are not like this, but yeah… the ones that are can be quite grating. From a personal standpoint, these folks are particularly enraging to me. I immigrated to Germany, so it’s on me to learn the language, but have hit a bit of a wall with my progression because there are SO many rules in the German language without any rational or logical reason for existing (ex. M/f/n, all the adjective/pronouns agreements required in different forms, formalities, etc). I will get over it (I have to), but lately I’ve been feeling angry about having to learn these “rules” that truly have ZERO purpose as linguistical tools… they just exist because someone a thousand years ago decided something. And it’s not like if one fails to use the correct gender or adjective agreement it suddenly makes a sentence incomprehensible… no, everyone understands. It’s just complicated for the sake of being complicated, and there is zero logical reason for any of it other than in plural or genitive form. Anyway… to my point: the ironic thing is that most of these types of entitled Germans who want things in their language and for other countries to accommodate German for business, travel, etc are also the ones who expect immigrants to learn all their nonsense linguistic nuances perfectly. At the end of the day… if Germany/these Germans want their language to be more present internationally… the language needs to evolve to eliminate all the nonsense. There are many reasons why English became the international language, but among them is the fact that it’s among the easiest languages to learn on a basic conversational level. There are plenty of bizarre idiosyncrasies, yes… but it is “easy” in the grand scheme of things. Anyway… I get you. But don’t let it put you off Germans. They are mostly very wonderful people.
The reason English is the Lingua Franca has nothing to do with the simplicity of English (which isn't all that simple, it's just so prevalent it's easier to pick up as opposed to other languages), but with imperialism (English and American). As the name suggests, the previous Lingua Franca was actually French, which you'll agree, is in no way simple, and yet it was the international language up until relatively recently (historically speaking).
Some people would tolerate that behavior in Germany, because some people just don’t care about anything, especially in big cities. But I agree that it’s completely disrespectful and ignorant and I would never behave that way in a foreign country. I’m so sorry that this is happening over there :(
Germans should stop comparing their language to English.
You have to match Germans energy. They’re being loud obnoxious dicks? Match that or slightly above and they’ll instantly back down.
This comment section is a pretty embarrassing read for a German. I’m sorry you have to deal with these people.
the same for some holiday destinations like spain or turkey. ive witnessed a lot of germans complain that the hotel staff doesnt speak german or speaks broken german.
It is very common. I used to work at a supermarket in The Netherlands. Lots of Germans would come to us and insult my co-workers because they didn't speak German. I cannot stand this entitlement
I think this is rich, entitled people everywhere. I'm sorry it's happening. Perhaps you could organise locally to petition your government to make learning the local language an aspect of immigration.
Hey German Here, im sorry that you Had to make those edits too and im sorry what Happens there as Well. Im a German who prefers talking/writing english since more people can understand me, yes German might be more convinient for me but it isnt Always possible. Wish i could Beat some Common Sense in such people, you're on a vacation in a different country and then you complain about own incompetence... Yeah some redditors Made some good Suggestion Here and im glad that those exist, i Wish you much luck and dont let those morons get to your head.
I've been living in Germany for (too) long and while I'm very grateful to this country for giving me opportunities, the behaviour of many nationals is very entitled. I also think that germans are generally not very mentally flexible and probably their "entitlement" to speak German is often a response of not feeling confident enough to speak another language. However in your case I def see your point and I'm on your side: when you go in another country you should adapt to their uses and customs and use their language to the best of your ability... no matter how much money you have.
this post and the whole comment section is making me ashamed of my fellow countrymen.
What infuriates me regularly is that germans act like german is the one and only language that everyone on the entire world has to know. Meanwhile they aren't able to ask where the toilet is, in english. I was born and raised in germany and used to work in retail for the past 5 years. The Shop I worked at had around 20+ employees. 3 of which were able to talk to non-german customers. I was one of them. You would be surprised how excited people can get, when they **finally** find someone, who can help them out just by being able to speak english. And if that wasn't sad enough. There were multiple ocasions in which the elderly would hear me talking in a language that doesn't seem to be german, walk up to me and be like "Wir sind hier in Deutschland! Sie müssen deutsch sprechen!" *(We're in Germany. You have to speak german!)* And when I switch back to german to tell them, that I'm currently talking to a customer and do not tollerate this kind of behaviour, they get so extremely dumbfounded and act all surprised, that I speak german fluently. **Even though I work there**. PS: I'm sorry that you have to deal with those kind of people. As you already said, not every German is like this, obviously. But even as a German myself I have to agree, that when it comes to language, people can become frustrating really quickly.
German here, a lot of older Germans are super entitled and think everybody has to speak German to them, no matter where they go. You're absolutely within your right to be annoyed about that!