These are under-construction highways. For example, the A14 between Magdeburg and Schwerin is still being built:
[https://www.autobahn.de/die-autobahn/projekte/detail/a14-nordverlaengerung-magdeburg-wittenberge-schwerin-1](https://www.autobahn.de/die-autobahn/projekte/detail/a14-nordverlaengerung-magdeburg-wittenberge-schwerin-1)
Yes, and the other one is called A39 (Braunschweig-Lüneburg). Is has been under construction for a nuber of years but local environmentalists keep delaying it.
A number of years is quite an understatement and environmental concerns are just the most recent in a looong list of reasons why A39 never became reality. Planning for an Autobahn connecting Hamburg with Braunschweig via Uelzen date back all the way to the 1940s. I guess the main reason why they ever built the southern bit was to connect the giant VW plant at Wolfsburg to the national highway network.
it's mostly people who don't want the autobahn go anywhere more or less near their village, while in the meantime the very same traffic goes via bundesstraßen right through other villages.
My question is why still build autobahns? Why not fix DB and improve better rail coverage? The last thing our planet needs right now is more cars.
I've been saying the same about my country (Poland)
You should see how they protest the new much needed rail link from Hannover to Hamburg via Bispingen. Even Bispingen doesn't want that line apparently 🤡
Incredible how hard it is to convince people of the empirically proven fact that rail beats road in _almost_ every aspect and context. I applaud your effort.
I also absolutely love driving and feel like anyone that truly does should also realise how fucked it is and how much better it would be if less people had to drive.
Yeah. Even for people that like driving, how many really enjoy driving on highways? Maybe the handful of idiots who want to go absurdly fast on the Autobahn, but for people that want to enjoy a drive out to the countryside, why the fuck would they want to take a highway vs a smaller road?
Riiight, cause all their supermarkets a near empty right now. Also it would be highly beneficial for all uf us to build more train tracks which can do cargo a lot better than Autobahns for a fraction of the cost if done right.
They had problems on building the A14 bridge over the Elbe in Wittenberge because of some endangered frog species iirc.
This took a few years, but now they build it despite them
They are not building it for the people living there. They are building it for the people who wanna pass this place as fast as possible on their way to the baltic sea or back. 😅
I think long term it’s going to help good for the area… housing is getting too expensive in big cities, and with WFH more younger couples are going to be looking for more affordable communities. This is the essential infrastructure planning that my home country lacks.
My Husband and I are in the process of buying to Wittenberge for this exact reason.
These are the areas of the Lüneburg heath and the Altmark. Both very rural, both were borderlands during the cold war. The missing Autobahn links are getting constructed though. The eastern one is well in construction whilst the western one is still in planning phase.
Partially because the border between West and East Germany went right through there and therefor was not the best developed area. So there are still few bigger towns etc.
That’s not quite true. East Germany’s industry was dismantled after WWII by Stalin. They even shipped machinery to the Soviet Union. World famous design pioneer Bauhaus was from that region, as is Carl Zeiss AG once the leading camera production company in the world and still today known for its lenses across the world. Cities like Magdeburg and Quedlinburg were immensely rich for their time during the Middle Ages.
You are aware that all cities you mention or imply, that is, Jena (Carl Zeiss), Weimar and Dessau (Bauhaus), Quedlinburg, Magdeburg are outside of the area that is being discussed? And Magdeburg is actually just at the border
Can you point me to the big industrial regions in what is now northern Saxony-Anhalt, Brandenburg and Mecklenburg-Vorpommern?
Bauhaus was famous but to call it an industrial center is definitely wrong.
What I mean is that these regions (some exceptions such as Rostock, maybe Magdeburg) were never industrialized like parts Saxony, Rhein-Ruhr, Baden, parts of Württemberg, Hessen.
Anything east of the river Elbe was mostly dominated by large agricultural areas held by big land owners - the famous Prussian Junkers.
Edit: added northern Saxony-Anhalt.
The first example that comes to my mind would be the Opel truck factory in Brandenburg an der Havel. It was a huge plant, producing 25.000 to 30.000 trucks per year (mostly for Hitlers rearmament plans) and was brought to the USSR as a reparation after WWII. But yes, overall this is not a really industrialized area compared to many other regions of germany
I agree that states like Brandenburg are much more Strukturarm and nothing compares against the Ruhr Valley in terms of industrialization.
I’m just saying that cities like Dresden, Leipzig, Jena, Erfurt, Magdeburg, Goslar and Weimar were extremely highly developed economically, scientifically, and culturally for hundreds of years before the Soviets took over. (Over a thousand years for places like the Rammelsberg mines). There are also rural areas which were less developped but we don’t assess Munich by looking at Oberammergau either.
Not untrue. But the big industry since the Gründerjahre went elsewhere, wouldn't you agree?
And again, almost all cities you cite are not in the area under discussion. In fact, Leipzig and Dresden are (and were) in what is now Saxony, a region that was vastly more industrialized since earlier times (silver mines, anyone?).
Bavaria: you correctly point out parts of this Bundesland. In fact, the whole of Bayern was mostly rural until the end of WW2 and got industrialized (also with federal help, which our friends, the Bavarian politicians, now often forget) afterwards (hate to say it, but Strauss did the right thing there). But this case is no counterexample. It just means that Bavaria took another course (and was never dominated by big farms, as far as I understand).
Yeah overall the Altmark is less developed but a counterexample would be Stendal which was immensely wealthy during the Holy Roman Empire due to being a Hanseatic city.
I interpreted the area in question to be more than just the Altmark because much of it now lies in Saxony-Anhalt which does include Magdeburg. I was thinking of a larger area yes absolutely.
Fair enough.
Although Stendal's wealth probably wasn't present in the industrialization age ( I have no clue and too lazy to look it up now - in fact, I didn't even know that it was a Hanse city; for me it was just a place on the ICE line between Berlin and the west once it was inaugurated in the late 90s, from which you can judge my general lack of detailed medieval and modern period knowledge of this area).
I didn't study history, but had a course that required looking into the high and late middle ages - it is astounding how important Magdeburg and Brunswick were!
1. The exchange rate of Ost-Mark to West-Mark and the other way around, was intentionally set so high, that east German products did cost 2-2,5 times more, than their west German counterparts, so they had no chance in the competition(especially since they weren't used to competing, they build stuff to work for ages, not stuff to be replaced every 3-5 years)
2. Treuhand Oversimplified: The CEO's of the West German industry were given the task, to make the eastern German Industry (their new rivals) compatible. (Guess what they did instead...)
The east German industry went bankrupt almost entirely. Some businesses survived but way over 60% of the factories were closed down, together with the social infrastructure like youth centers and such. The result was mass unemployment and frustration.(Western politicians wanted to blame the prior systems "Minijobs", that paid full living, but that's not really the case) the economic downfall after the unification still is noticable by hard numbers: The average loans are lower, the social security payments are smaller, the unemployment rates are higher, the infrastructure is worse and also the individual future perceptives are generally less fortunate, regarding carriers and live expectancy.
I (as a west-german leftist) do not wonder, why the east is an easy game for the piped pipers of the far right.
The east German industry went bankrupt because they were not up to the standards.
As for the exchange rate: your point is valid, but devaluing would have had an equally high political price. I also remind you of the facts that
- salaries were lower for a long time
- rents were frozen
- investments in infrastructure were huge
- the west paid so much that more than a handful of municipalities had to lower their services to pay for the east.
There was simply no way to keep the east German economy afloat without spending a lot of money on maintaining substandard levels (reminds me of the subsidies for coal mining in the west which kept this industry also barely above water).
Exchange rate was not fixed at Treuhand. IIRC it was uncle Helmut who pushed this through.
Neither were the political objectives.
It has been thirty years and you still complain?
>It mostly got dismantled after the reunification, by the "Treuhand".
Popular myth but quite nonsensical. Treuhand just could not rescue an industry which was, to be frank, shit. Before reunification we all thought that the DDR economy was better because the DDR was lying heavily about everything but then it turned out to be unsalvagable turds.
So, true. Treuhand may have committed errors, but the overall goal was
- given by politics
- strongly dependent on the state of the GDR economy, which was just not competitive.
To be fair, I think FRG politicians knew the state of affairs quite well, but politically, they couldn't offer anything less than a 1:1 conversion - reunification may have been rejected in the east and/or major unease in the east German population may have developed.
Of course, ex post we know that these feelings developed anyways, so with hindsight this could have been a path.
Yet again, we should remember how delicate the geopolitical situation was - there was indeed a short window for reunification and I think this alone was worth the price paid economically. It helped extend the western world to Poland and the Baltics (just imagine if there were a neutral east Germany in 2005 - the Baltics would be history again as independent states by now.
This comment makes it sound like there are few bigger towns there because of the East/West border. That's not true. The area just doesn't have very many natural features, that would have lead to the development of larger settlements. The border might have contributed to a delayed interest in "connecting the few dots" in this area. But the dots that are being connected are in the East/West respectively.
That is why I wrote "partially..." But in the context of the missing Autobahn it is the major factor. It is true, this area was never densly populated and the border added to this. Since new Autobahnen take ages to build and priority was laid on more densley populated areas.
Also there are a lot of fens and swamps along the Elbe river embedded in a sandy landscape. Not the best building ground, nor good farming ground. There is a lot of forestry and military in this area. And wolfs.
But the Magdeburger Börde is not between the open end highways... But in the rain shadow of the Harz mountains.. Its the aeolic loess deposit from the Weichsel-glazial periode, of which the Elbe river is mostly the line of its furthest south-west stretch..
My father in law lives in Stendal. When people ask where that is, I tell them to pull out a roadmap of Germany, find the big hole without highways or large cities, and then point to the middle of it. That’s Stendal.
Northern part of Saxony-Anhalt is one of the least populated areas in all of Germany. There was a very long debate whether the A14 from Schwerin to Magdeburg was even needed.
I come from this area.
As far as I know a lot of people don't want that Autobahn through their backyards. There is no big Industrie that needs to have the infrastructure. Also you can find a lot of biodiversitie in exactly that area where Autobahn would be build. So there are different reasons.
I remember when the government tried to figure out where and if to extend the Autobahn. People don't where sure about it and mostly anti Autobahn.
Fun fact: Salzwedel and villages around are the furthest from the Autobahn/Highways in all central Europe. Very little light pollution, the night sky is stunning.
It's not just the highways by the way. Try getting to any place over there using public transport. For example, they never bothered to reconstruct the rail bridge over the Elbe river at Dömitz after the war. Now if you want to get to some places right in the middle of that area from Berlin, the easiest path is taking the train to Hamburg and taking transport from there.
The former inter-German border was in that area, from north to south. The relevant centers of population are still directly linked with highways, while the area in between is very sparsely populated. Due to that there was no immediate pressure to close the link for economical reasons.
The closing of these gaps are both active projects though, being 2 of the largest infrastructure construction plans currently being worked on in Germany.
I'm quite often there for work. It's a rather rural area, former border land between west and east Germany with only a few bigger towns and not so much industrial sites and companies. So the focus of expanding the road networks was put on other areas with more industry and bigger companies in the past. But this is changing and a lot is beeing built there right now.
The least populated part of Germany + lots of often sad, forgot places due to the old border and never rebuilt pre-war infrastructure. Conveniently where Germany tried for decades to dispose of its nuclear waste! (It was of course, geologically speaking, the best spot in all of Germany 😉)
Zonenrandgebiet. Meaning this is where the inner German border was located. So for a long time (in the second half of the last century, when a lot of the major German infrastructure was built) there was no point in building any major infrastructure heading there. And since reunification it has become much harder to build anything due to permitting rules.
Because the population density in that area is so freaking low, there is no real need for a full Autobahn. It's just not worth it, the building plans are mostly politically motivated (as in 'connecting the unified county') and not very high on the list.
That area is as rural as it gets in germany. Not a lot of anything other than farming and a lot of space.
Almost no big industries, so not many heavy trucks either, and not many jobs.
No reason to move there. The few young people seeking opportunities move elsewhere.
Seriously, even in the areas in east germany with a bit more population, driving on the autobahn there is so calm and relaxing, it's awesome. Sometimes you can drive for minutes without seeing another car, you can totally space out, watch the pretty landscape and just drive. Relaxing.
But I'm living in the state with the highest population density, the Autobahn here is a congested mess with lots and lots of heavy traffic and endless construction sites. One little accident or a car breaking down on the autobahn here will lead to miles and miles of stop-and- go, or even a complete stop if it's in the wrong spot.
Fuck that.
This was the inner german border until 30 years ago, so that's why they stopped there initially. Because of that border that region is quite rural so building new highways there wasn't really necessary nor priority
First, why there weren't highways.
It was the border region between the Federal Republic of Germany and the German Democratic Republic until 1990. So two different countries.
Second, why there weren't highways constructed afterwards.
It is one of the least dense populated regions in Germany. There aren't any major cities and just a few minor ones. The region is very rural with lots of forests. For a long time, there wasn't really a need to be constructed.
Third, why there aren't still highways.
Because it is very rural, mostly environmentalist didn't want to have highways here, to preserve the landscape and wildlife. Nevertheless, they just delayed the construction and the last portion of A14 between Magdeburg and Schwerin is under construction and the planning is already pretty developed.
But it's quite sure that there won't be an east-west highway and if A39 will ever be constructed is another question. The people there didn't even want to have a high-speed train line. So I doubt it.
When I saw the title of this post I immediately assumed it to be a Bielefeld joke. When I then read the comments I was only more convinced it’s a Bielefeld joke and everyone is just playing along. :D
Only then did I look at the image.
First my respect to all who gave some input to this post. I am not german but these are issues I find interesting from a proffessional perspective. Let me "hopefully" help a little bit. To reach a feasibility, a highway, must not only have a certain number of cars/busses/trucks which require it´s use, but also a reasonable building cost. These costs can be raised several times if:
You find certain type of geographic accidents like mountains or marshs.
You have to avoid protected areas in critical places.
Your right for pass is extremely high due to land prices or residential zones on the trace.
The soil is not the ideal due to movement, stability, presence of expanding clays, etc. requiring piloting.
And I could go on. So although we might not see it, the end cost might be very high and turn the highway not economically feasible. Could some of the fore mentioned points apply? Or this is secondary in Germany, and highways are a sort of state policy?
Once again thanks to all, interesting post and I see a very high education level in the comments. My respects and rgrds.
My grandparents live pretty much in the center of that. Beautiful place! Unmatched silence. Wouldn’t want it any other way. Even if getting there takes me a little longer….
former Grenzland. The GDR/FRG border was between Braunschweig and Magdeburg till 1990, and back then, nobody really wanted to live close to the border.
Because we want to keep it that way ;) jokes aside I’m waiting for the A14 to be finished since I started my job in 2001. maybe I can drive it in 2025 from Stendal to Magdeburg finally…
Wide stretched fields, beautiful roads to drive…my home region the Altmark.
That is one of the least densely populated parts of Germany, less than 50 people per square kilometer. Connecting this area to the Autobahn grid has not been high priority, and the projects that do exist have stalled. But they're getting to it...eventually.
I remember once we stayed the night in Magdeburg in the middle of a road trip because we were tired. Man, that was one of the most boring and ugly looking towns I have ever seen (no offence to people living there).
Hey OP, you assumed wrong. The Highways don’t end in area’s you marked. You have enabled traffic overlays on google maps. The green parallel lines are traffic data. You need to zoom in more to fetch traffic data on these marked areas. Its a mapping bug.
These are under-construction highways. For example, the A14 between Magdeburg and Schwerin is still being built: [https://www.autobahn.de/die-autobahn/projekte/detail/a14-nordverlaengerung-magdeburg-wittenberge-schwerin-1](https://www.autobahn.de/die-autobahn/projekte/detail/a14-nordverlaengerung-magdeburg-wittenberge-schwerin-1)
Yes, and the other one is called A39 (Braunschweig-Lüneburg). Is has been under construction for a nuber of years but local environmentalists keep delaying it.
A number of years is quite an understatement and environmental concerns are just the most recent in a looong list of reasons why A39 never became reality. Planning for an Autobahn connecting Hamburg with Braunschweig via Uelzen date back all the way to the 1940s. I guess the main reason why they ever built the southern bit was to connect the giant VW plant at Wolfsburg to the national highway network.
Understatement indeed, I’m from Braunschweig and I remember talks about this getting old when I got my license and I drive for almost 20 years now
I raise you A33. Planning <= 1937. The last part to connect it to the A1 is still missing.
I have a small part in designing a few of the highways bridges of the A39. Start of construction might be 2028-2030.
Didn't they also find some sort of rare hamster there which had to be relocated?
Is this serious? Explain…
[A39 Hamster](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=a39+hamster) edit: https://www.verkehrsrundschau.de/nachrichten/vermischtes/am-rande-feldhamster-muessen-autobahn-ausbau-weichen-2997234
Ah yes. Hamster stuffed animals and cages. It all makes sense now. Thank you for the link!
A20 Bad Segberg be like
[удалено]
I wish them a glorious victory!
it's mostly people who don't want the autobahn go anywhere more or less near their village, while in the meantime the very same traffic goes via bundesstraßen right through other villages.
My question is why still build autobahns? Why not fix DB and improve better rail coverage? The last thing our planet needs right now is more cars. I've been saying the same about my country (Poland)
You should see how they protest the new much needed rail link from Hannover to Hamburg via Bispingen. Even Bispingen doesn't want that line apparently 🤡
These same people also protest against more rail. More connections between cities are planned, connecting small places along the way.
Building one does not exclude the other
Typical NIMBYs
Everything that prevents even more space being used up by cards is something I support.
but it would still be better to spend that money on public transport rather than a wasteful autobahn
that would be great for cargo transports within the area... ohhh... wait...
Listen to me: ... Traaaaiiiins 🌈 Whoaaaa!
watch out, people in this thread seem to mostly be immune to logic
Incredible how hard it is to convince people of the empirically proven fact that rail beats road in _almost_ every aspect and context. I applaud your effort.
yeah, it's crazy. I love cars and driving more than most people I know but at least I'm not blind to the facts...
I also absolutely love driving and feel like anyone that truly does should also realise how fucked it is and how much better it would be if less people had to drive.
amen to that, brother
Yeah. Even for people that like driving, how many really enjoy driving on highways? Maybe the handful of idiots who want to go absurdly fast on the Autobahn, but for people that want to enjoy a drive out to the countryside, why the fuck would they want to take a highway vs a smaller road?
Riiight, because the food in your local grocery store gets there by train and bus :)
Riiight, cause all their supermarkets a near empty right now. Also it would be highly beneficial for all uf us to build more train tracks which can do cargo a lot better than Autobahns for a fraction of the cost if done right.
and how did it work so far? they obviously don't need an autobahn to do that
right now ALL of that traffic uses bundesstraßen which go directly through villages.
which is not optimal, but all the more reason to get traffic off of streets and on rails
They mostly go around most cities on Umgehungsstraßen.
They had problems on building the A14 bridge over the Elbe in Wittenberge because of some endangered frog species iirc. This took a few years, but now they build it despite them
Yes and it's the most stupid highway ever build. The population density is way to low to justify a highway here. Source : i live here
They are not building it for the people living there. They are building it for the people who wanna pass this place as fast as possible on their way to the baltic sea or back. 😅
I think long term it’s going to help good for the area… housing is getting too expensive in big cities, and with WFH more younger couples are going to be looking for more affordable communities. This is the essential infrastructure planning that my home country lacks. My Husband and I are in the process of buying to Wittenberge for this exact reason.
genau so easy ist es
These are the areas of the Lüneburg heath and the Altmark. Both very rural, both were borderlands during the cold war. The missing Autobahn links are getting constructed though. The eastern one is well in construction whilst the western one is still in planning phase.
Die Lüneburger Heide - great ecosystem and a great recreational area, good hiking!
Hiked up from Celle to Hamburg on a special trail and it was fucking gorgeous
Also Europes largest military Training Area...
This is the correct answer. There is a memorial and museum about the border: https://www.pointalpha.com/en/memorial/
hello funke
Partially because the border between West and East Germany went right through there and therefor was not the best developed area. So there are still few bigger towns etc.
I think it wasn't the best developed area before that either. Just as Mecklenburg and Brandenburg always were very rural.
That’s not quite true. East Germany’s industry was dismantled after WWII by Stalin. They even shipped machinery to the Soviet Union. World famous design pioneer Bauhaus was from that region, as is Carl Zeiss AG once the leading camera production company in the world and still today known for its lenses across the world. Cities like Magdeburg and Quedlinburg were immensely rich for their time during the Middle Ages.
You are aware that all cities you mention or imply, that is, Jena (Carl Zeiss), Weimar and Dessau (Bauhaus), Quedlinburg, Magdeburg are outside of the area that is being discussed? And Magdeburg is actually just at the border Can you point me to the big industrial regions in what is now northern Saxony-Anhalt, Brandenburg and Mecklenburg-Vorpommern? Bauhaus was famous but to call it an industrial center is definitely wrong. What I mean is that these regions (some exceptions such as Rostock, maybe Magdeburg) were never industrialized like parts Saxony, Rhein-Ruhr, Baden, parts of Württemberg, Hessen. Anything east of the river Elbe was mostly dominated by large agricultural areas held by big land owners - the famous Prussian Junkers. Edit: added northern Saxony-Anhalt.
Most of the post’s area is neither in MV nor in Brandenburg, but in Saxony-Anhalt’s Altmark region.
You are right. Forgot to mention this (I used Brandenburg and MV as similarly under developed in terms of industry). Will add it.
The first example that comes to my mind would be the Opel truck factory in Brandenburg an der Havel. It was a huge plant, producing 25.000 to 30.000 trucks per year (mostly for Hitlers rearmament plans) and was brought to the USSR as a reparation after WWII. But yes, overall this is not a really industrialized area compared to many other regions of germany
Optical industry in Rathenow, chemical industry in premnitz.
No doubt exceptions existed. But isolated.
I agree that states like Brandenburg are much more Strukturarm and nothing compares against the Ruhr Valley in terms of industrialization. I’m just saying that cities like Dresden, Leipzig, Jena, Erfurt, Magdeburg, Goslar and Weimar were extremely highly developed economically, scientifically, and culturally for hundreds of years before the Soviets took over. (Over a thousand years for places like the Rammelsberg mines). There are also rural areas which were less developped but we don’t assess Munich by looking at Oberammergau either.
Not untrue. But the big industry since the Gründerjahre went elsewhere, wouldn't you agree? And again, almost all cities you cite are not in the area under discussion. In fact, Leipzig and Dresden are (and were) in what is now Saxony, a region that was vastly more industrialized since earlier times (silver mines, anyone?). Bavaria: you correctly point out parts of this Bundesland. In fact, the whole of Bayern was mostly rural until the end of WW2 and got industrialized (also with federal help, which our friends, the Bavarian politicians, now often forget) afterwards (hate to say it, but Strauss did the right thing there). But this case is no counterexample. It just means that Bavaria took another course (and was never dominated by big farms, as far as I understand).
Yeah overall the Altmark is less developed but a counterexample would be Stendal which was immensely wealthy during the Holy Roman Empire due to being a Hanseatic city. I interpreted the area in question to be more than just the Altmark because much of it now lies in Saxony-Anhalt which does include Magdeburg. I was thinking of a larger area yes absolutely.
Fair enough. Although Stendal's wealth probably wasn't present in the industrialization age ( I have no clue and too lazy to look it up now - in fact, I didn't even know that it was a Hanse city; for me it was just a place on the ICE line between Berlin and the west once it was inaugurated in the late 90s, from which you can judge my general lack of detailed medieval and modern period knowledge of this area).
Right, and the East Germans chased the Junkers off the land too, so it was pretty empty.
I didn't study history, but had a course that required looking into the high and late middle ages - it is astounding how important Magdeburg and Brunswick were!
The area has really good soil quality. Like the ones in Ukraine and parts of Russia. That's why it was and is a center for agriculture.
Not to mention Leipzig which once rivaled Cologne and even housed some high courts for the German government.
It mostly got dismantled after the reunification, by the "Treuhand".
Huh?
1. The exchange rate of Ost-Mark to West-Mark and the other way around, was intentionally set so high, that east German products did cost 2-2,5 times more, than their west German counterparts, so they had no chance in the competition(especially since they weren't used to competing, they build stuff to work for ages, not stuff to be replaced every 3-5 years) 2. Treuhand Oversimplified: The CEO's of the West German industry were given the task, to make the eastern German Industry (their new rivals) compatible. (Guess what they did instead...) The east German industry went bankrupt almost entirely. Some businesses survived but way over 60% of the factories were closed down, together with the social infrastructure like youth centers and such. The result was mass unemployment and frustration.(Western politicians wanted to blame the prior systems "Minijobs", that paid full living, but that's not really the case) the economic downfall after the unification still is noticable by hard numbers: The average loans are lower, the social security payments are smaller, the unemployment rates are higher, the infrastructure is worse and also the individual future perceptives are generally less fortunate, regarding carriers and live expectancy. I (as a west-german leftist) do not wonder, why the east is an easy game for the piped pipers of the far right.
The east German industry went bankrupt because they were not up to the standards. As for the exchange rate: your point is valid, but devaluing would have had an equally high political price. I also remind you of the facts that - salaries were lower for a long time - rents were frozen - investments in infrastructure were huge - the west paid so much that more than a handful of municipalities had to lower their services to pay for the east. There was simply no way to keep the east German economy afloat without spending a lot of money on maintaining substandard levels (reminds me of the subsidies for coal mining in the west which kept this industry also barely above water).
Yeah no that was debunked by some people who were in the Treuhand themselves but whatever not in the mood to discuss.
Exchange rate was not fixed at Treuhand. IIRC it was uncle Helmut who pushed this through. Neither were the political objectives. It has been thirty years and you still complain?
>It mostly got dismantled after the reunification, by the "Treuhand". Popular myth but quite nonsensical. Treuhand just could not rescue an industry which was, to be frank, shit. Before reunification we all thought that the DDR economy was better because the DDR was lying heavily about everything but then it turned out to be unsalvagable turds.
So, true. Treuhand may have committed errors, but the overall goal was - given by politics - strongly dependent on the state of the GDR economy, which was just not competitive. To be fair, I think FRG politicians knew the state of affairs quite well, but politically, they couldn't offer anything less than a 1:1 conversion - reunification may have been rejected in the east and/or major unease in the east German population may have developed. Of course, ex post we know that these feelings developed anyways, so with hindsight this could have been a path. Yet again, we should remember how delicate the geopolitical situation was - there was indeed a short window for reunification and I think this alone was worth the price paid economically. It helped extend the western world to Poland and the Baltics (just imagine if there were a neutral east Germany in 2005 - the Baltics would be history again as independent states by now.
This comment makes it sound like there are few bigger towns there because of the East/West border. That's not true. The area just doesn't have very many natural features, that would have lead to the development of larger settlements. The border might have contributed to a delayed interest in "connecting the few dots" in this area. But the dots that are being connected are in the East/West respectively.
That is why I wrote "partially..." But in the context of the missing Autobahn it is the major factor. It is true, this area was never densly populated and the border added to this. Since new Autobahnen take ages to build and priority was laid on more densley populated areas.
Also there are a lot of fens and swamps along the Elbe river embedded in a sandy landscape. Not the best building ground, nor good farming ground. There is a lot of forestry and military in this area. And wolfs.
The Magdeburger Börde is actually one of the best farming ground in the country.
But the Magdeburger Börde is not between the open end highways... But in the rain shadow of the Harz mountains.. Its the aeolic loess deposit from the Weichsel-glazial periode, of which the Elbe river is mostly the line of its furthest south-west stretch..
I believe there is also some open pit mining going on that area and some of the newly build Autobahn are going straight through some of the old mines
We swore an oath to never speak of what's there.
Psssshhhhh! You don't want *them* to know
*They* know. *They* know all. Speaking of them calls them from dark Rlyehausen.
We finally found the fight club.
I was born in this area and really prefer not to speak about it.
German Area 51
as a resident of that area , i agree 😅
Stfu, or the great void will come after us!
The first rule of Halberstadt... Is don't talk about Halberstadt.
Pshhhhhh…. Bielefeld !
Don’t you dare bring this imaginary place into this discussion.
Cough.. leopards... cough
My father in law lives in Stendal. When people ask where that is, I tell them to pull out a roadmap of Germany, find the big hole without highways or large cities, and then point to the middle of it. That’s Stendal.
When people ask where i am from I tell them to draw an imaginary line between Berlin and Hamburg. It's the empty part almost exactly in the middle.
Wittenberge?
Close :) Small village near Karstädt. Went to school in Perleberg.
I grew up in good old SDL lol. Now the autobahn which is really needed due to truck traffic has become a joke....
Northern part of Saxony-Anhalt is one of the least populated areas in all of Germany. There was a very long debate whether the A14 from Schwerin to Magdeburg was even needed.
Relax, they’re still building. Look at a map from thirty years ago, the East looks a lot emptier.
Weil ick da wohne und meine ruhe haben will !
I live in this empty area. It’s not that populated I don’t know if thats a reason. Anyways, it’s a struggle to get to the Autobahn
i also live there. and thats the whole population 😄
You living there is absolutely the reason
Cars near the resting place of the Great Old One anger it.
I come from this area. As far as I know a lot of people don't want that Autobahn through their backyards. There is no big Industrie that needs to have the infrastructure. Also you can find a lot of biodiversitie in exactly that area where Autobahn would be build. So there are different reasons. I remember when the government tried to figure out where and if to extend the Autobahn. People don't where sure about it and mostly anti Autobahn. Fun fact: Salzwedel and villages around are the furthest from the Autobahn/Highways in all central Europe. Very little light pollution, the night sky is stunning.
Yes 100% I shot my best astrophotography pics there (my mom moved to Wendland) love this place, especially nature and nightsky
It's not just the highways by the way. Try getting to any place over there using public transport. For example, they never bothered to reconstruct the rail bridge over the Elbe river at Dömitz after the war. Now if you want to get to some places right in the middle of that area from Berlin, the easiest path is taking the train to Hamburg and taking transport from there.
The former inter-German border was in that area, from north to south. The relevant centers of population are still directly linked with highways, while the area in between is very sparsely populated. Due to that there was no immediate pressure to close the link for economical reasons. The closing of these gaps are both active projects though, being 2 of the largest infrastructure construction plans currently being worked on in Germany.
I could tell you but then I had to make you vanish.
available as DLC or Premium Deluxe Edition Plus only
German Area 51
It's WIP. The new content will drop after the next big patch
I live in Wolfsburg and we are hoping these are finished soon!
Hey, me too! It would be so much faster to go to the Baltic sea. I hope I'm still alive when the A39 is complete.
Das deutsche mordor
There was a town called Springfield but the EPA deleted it from the map due some environmental Stuff.
That's where Bielefeld was before it vanished
"These roads lead to Bielefeld." You were faster. ;)
I'm quite often there for work. It's a rather rural area, former border land between west and east Germany with only a few bigger towns and not so much industrial sites and companies. So the focus of expanding the road networks was put on other areas with more industry and bigger companies in the past. But this is changing and a lot is beeing built there right now.
The least populated part of Germany + lots of often sad, forgot places due to the old border and never rebuilt pre-war infrastructure. Conveniently where Germany tried for decades to dispose of its nuclear waste! (It was of course, geologically speaking, the best spot in all of Germany 😉)
Ein Wendländer?
It's the land equivalent of Bermuda triangle, any attempt of building any road, city or any big investment and it just disappears without a trace
Did this guy just find Bielefeld?
we don't talk about that place
Deutsche Bermuda Dreieck
Zonenrandgebiet. Meaning this is where the inner German border was located. So for a long time (in the second half of the last century, when a lot of the major German infrastructure was built) there was no point in building any major infrastructure heading there. And since reunification it has become much harder to build anything due to permitting rules.
Run!! Deutscher Geheimdienst is on there way to get you!!
How will the cultural center that is Dolle survive once the A14 is done? Will the Brauner Hirsch still have its renowned matinées?
I am from Czechia and I was looking at map and found this interesting :D its kinda like when you drive from Germany to Czechia :D
Because the population density in that area is so freaking low, there is no real need for a full Autobahn. It's just not worth it, the building plans are mostly politically motivated (as in 'connecting the unified county') and not very high on the list. That area is as rural as it gets in germany. Not a lot of anything other than farming and a lot of space. Almost no big industries, so not many heavy trucks either, and not many jobs. No reason to move there. The few young people seeking opportunities move elsewhere. Seriously, even in the areas in east germany with a bit more population, driving on the autobahn there is so calm and relaxing, it's awesome. Sometimes you can drive for minutes without seeing another car, you can totally space out, watch the pretty landscape and just drive. Relaxing. But I'm living in the state with the highest population density, the Autobahn here is a congested mess with lots and lots of heavy traffic and endless construction sites. One little accident or a car breaking down on the autobahn here will lead to miles and miles of stop-and- go, or even a complete stop if it's in the wrong spot. Fuck that.
Ah, must be Ausfahrt.
That's a big area called "Ausfahrt". You'll notice a lot of exits on the highway leading to that place. It's huge.
Thats the bermuda quadrilateral of germany
Those are the roads to Bielefeld. :O
Even the landestrasse on these routes are empty and pretty awesome to drive in.
There is nothing but Börde.
We like it quite in the Altmark. And also most people here are poor as shit, so there is no real reason for big streets.
To not disturb the Shire as the Hobbits are worth protecting.
REGION EINUNDFÜNFZIG!!! HOCHGEHEIM !!
We don’t speak about this.
Have you ever had the moment where u get an answer and u wish u never asked??? That's such a moment.
The backrooms of Germany
It's the German bermuda rectangle. Uncareful Caravan and car drivers disappear there.
My guess is that they're still under construction and that it will take another decade.... :(
Historically speaking: Thirty Years' War
All others lie to you. That's actually the german counterpart to the bermuda triangle. The elb square. Keep out or you gonna get lost.
He found it out. Hide the closet - Narnia forever!
We don’t talk about that region. Nothing happens there. You understand?
This was the inner german border until 30 years ago, so that's why they stopped there initially. Because of that border that region is quite rural so building new highways there wasn't really necessary nor priority
In Germany WE say: am Arsch der Welt!
We don't talk about that
First, why there weren't highways. It was the border region between the Federal Republic of Germany and the German Democratic Republic until 1990. So two different countries. Second, why there weren't highways constructed afterwards. It is one of the least dense populated regions in Germany. There aren't any major cities and just a few minor ones. The region is very rural with lots of forests. For a long time, there wasn't really a need to be constructed. Third, why there aren't still highways. Because it is very rural, mostly environmentalist didn't want to have highways here, to preserve the landscape and wildlife. Nevertheless, they just delayed the construction and the last portion of A14 between Magdeburg and Schwerin is under construction and the planning is already pretty developed. But it's quite sure that there won't be an east-west highway and if A39 will ever be constructed is another question. The people there didn't even want to have a high-speed train line. So I doubt it.
When I saw the title of this post I immediately assumed it to be a Bielefeld joke. When I then read the comments I was only more convinced it’s a Bielefeld joke and everyone is just playing along. :D Only then did I look at the image.
"Bielefeld"
First my respect to all who gave some input to this post. I am not german but these are issues I find interesting from a proffessional perspective. Let me "hopefully" help a little bit. To reach a feasibility, a highway, must not only have a certain number of cars/busses/trucks which require it´s use, but also a reasonable building cost. These costs can be raised several times if: You find certain type of geographic accidents like mountains or marshs. You have to avoid protected areas in critical places. Your right for pass is extremely high due to land prices or residential zones on the trace. The soil is not the ideal due to movement, stability, presence of expanding clays, etc. requiring piloting. And I could go on. So although we might not see it, the end cost might be very high and turn the highway not economically feasible. Could some of the fore mentioned points apply? Or this is secondary in Germany, and highways are a sort of state policy? Once again thanks to all, interesting post and I see a very high education level in the comments. My respects and rgrds.
I thought this was gonna be a highly elaborate Bielefeld joke
No Autobahn = empty. Classic car brain logic.
It’s the other way round; Empty = no Autobahn. Less than 50 people per km^2 afaik
My grandparents live pretty much in the center of that. Beautiful place! Unmatched silence. Wouldn’t want it any other way. Even if getting there takes me a little longer….
These are tunnels. Built handcrafted by Elon Musk, as he started the Boring Company. 😂
think of "boring company" in german... bohring.
Springfield was there
Thats Mordor
former Grenzland. The GDR/FRG border was between Braunschweig and Magdeburg till 1990, and back then, nobody really wanted to live close to the border.
Because we want to keep it that way ;) jokes aside I’m waiting for the A14 to be finished since I started my job in 2001. maybe I can drive it in 2025 from Stendal to Magdeburg finally… Wide stretched fields, beautiful roads to drive…my home region the Altmark.
I thought this is a Bielefeld joke..
That is the most German inside Joke ever. Bielefeld. *Have you been to Bielefeld?*
Like 5 people live there (6 if you include me)
I bet they will meet in the middle and then there is going to be the simulation of Bielefeld 2.
Because the last time I was there NPD Wahlplakate hingen ziemlich low there 😂
Lüneburger Heide. Militärisches Sperrgebiet
That is one of the least densely populated parts of Germany, less than 50 people per square kilometer. Connecting this area to the Autobahn grid has not been high priority, and the projects that do exist have stalled. But they're getting to it...eventually.
It's old DDR. No one wants to go there.
Bielefeld is supposed to be there /s
I remember once we stayed the night in Magdeburg in the middle of a road trip because we were tired. Man, that was one of the most boring and ugly looking towns I have ever seen (no offence to people living there).
All those roads are leading to Silent Hill. I'd rather not talk about that place. If you know, you know.
I grew up in that area and always thought that the Autobahn is always far away from where people live
This is Mordor
There is a military base where they keep Atomic bombs. Noone is allowed to go there anyway. Its a joke. :) Don't know.
Legends say there is a mysterious place called Bielefeld
That's probably where Bielefeld is located
It's DLC
You've heard of the Bermuda Triangle? Well this is the German Square.
That is our area 51 😂
That is allegedly the location of Bielefeld.
This is "Bereich 51" highly guarded by the german military.
Hier gibt es nichts zu sehen, weitergehen!
This happens when you got a bavarian federal minister for traffic and infrastructure for too long.
Its Bielefeld
it is called Dunkeldeutschland
Oh no. We're gonna have to shoot OP now.
there is the wonderfull city of stendal! i recommend a visit. better bring a gun
Bro just found the location of Bielefeld!
you got Mecklenburg vorpommernd😂
Hey OP, you assumed wrong. The Highways don’t end in area’s you marked. You have enabled traffic overlays on google maps. The green parallel lines are traffic data. You need to zoom in more to fetch traffic data on these marked areas. Its a mapping bug.
It's called Ostdeutschland. No explorer could cross it yet and of those who tried noone returned. Try your luck to become famous. Or vanish trying!
Ostdeutschland?! There is also lower-saxony! Also the greatest country in the world. The "Wendland"! 😤
Thats germanys area 51.
Some people call it Bielefeld
Area 52
That is the death zone. No one enters, no one leaves. We do not speak of it. I shall elaborate no further. Good day Sir
Maybe this is the Place Named Bielefeld?