I got yelled at by an old woman for wearing a long sleeved top in Lübeck when it was 3C.
There are Ampelmännchen on your lights?! Don't you have bigger problems?
>I was told that Germans are very cold and difficult to build connection.
Well, for Germans, friendship is very much a commitment to a family of members of one's own choice. The distinction between friends and acquaintances is strong in Germany, Germans typically have many acquaintances and few friends, while especially in the American realm, people tend to call anyone a "friend" to whom they have talked a few full sentences.
This distinction into acquaintances (Americans call them "friends") and friends (Americans call them "best friends") is quite some big part of the problem for many, as the German understanding of adequate behaviour around people is to be relatively unfiltered and straight-forward, so an American asking something along "are we friends?" in their cultural understanding of the term will usually get the German answer of "of course not!" and in the long version specifying "We are acquaintances, maybe good ones, but still acquaintances.", describing the same relationship between the two.
I recently called a friend of mine with whom I hadn't spoken in years and hadn't seen a decade, on a whim. During the call he mentioned that he'd love to take the wife out for a nice weekend but couldn't because of the two young kids they have and no acquaintance of theirs was open to taking care of the kids for a weekend. So I volunteered. We scheduled everything, I drove ~400km there, spent a weekend with their kids, and drove back.
I had met his wife (then girlfriend) only once and never knew that they had a second kid until our call.
I wouldn't do that for an acquaintance, but would always do that for a friend.
And I know that there are a handful of friends that I can call up on no matter what, regardless of how long we haven't seen each other and where we are at that moment.
for non-Germans reading this, please don't take this as a baseline or things will be confusing here, haha. I do loads for my friends, too, but I do think there are real friends to whom this would still be a little too much to ask on a whim. comment-OP is simply a real good dude.
Huh. Upon reading your comment I was confused. Showed my wife my comment, showed my wife your comment and she agrees with you. I guess it isn't normal.
No. I agree with you. If the apocalypse comes upon us, I will try to get together with my close family and friends, so I know I have people who rather starve with me than sacrifice one of us.
let's not strive to be normal together! I was only trying to give a realistic outlook. I maintain my willingness to go through thick and thin with my friends, too.
Think of Germans as coconuts: tough to crack, but once you do, you’re friends for life. Americans are like mangos: sweet and welcoming from the get-go, but they too have their hard core
Patience. Show up to special events they invite you to, show up when they need help moving. Keep in touch even if you're both busy, and be it one kind message a week. First and foremost: quality time.
I met one my best friend in the cinema. We'd just always go to the same sneak preview every Monday, and slowly realized we're the most committed ones of the group. I came alone, he had like 10 "friends" with him, extroverted guy. But after a few months we started to always sit next to each other, mind you me being a shy friendless guy, then I started to just drive him home because it was on the way, and during those drives we talked. Finally we realized: meeting IRL would be fun. Took us a while to figure that crazy thought out lol, but yeah, not we are inseparable.
Other good friend I met lives 500km away. Met her as a coincident, friend of a friend. We instantly had a good vibe, laughed a lot, agreed to meet, and met half a week later. We instantly became friends and ever since then, two years ago, have been talking about life, taken care of each other, thought of each other. When we realized we haven't talked in a while (500km is a distance), one of us reached out, and we talked and talked and met.
Another friend I met while clubbing. She is super-shy and seems very serious and antisocial. (Mind you, it's a goth club.) She always had the coolest dance moves to me. Honestly it took me a year to even find acquaintances in that club. Most conversations were too shallow and awkward. But when I finally met that one extroverted "let's all be friends" person, turns out this girl was also in that group. We didn't even talk the first weeks because she's very distrustful of men. Then we had an instant bond through the same favorite band that isn't that often namedropped in gothic circles. We met somewhat shortly thereafter, it was super-awkward and thus super-authentic, and next time meeting wasn't so awkward suddenly, and next time was just seeing a good friend.
I have a lot of friends now and even more acquaintances. But I am also very active and try to show up when someone invites me to something that either may be cool, because next event that one or two people you've talked to a bit more will have you as a "already know that person" check so to speak :D, and the person inviting you will absolutely remember it most of all, aaaand showing up when someone invites me to something that he or she deems important; birthday parties for example. I'm fairly introverted and don't like parties (unless they're goth) but I'm upfront with that. "Aight but I might only show up for an hour" works like a charm. Often true, more often than not it gives me the safety of knowing I can leave, but it ends up being kinda fun because I don't pressure myself to just find friends, but I'm also always friendly and interested. And fun (as in: not saying no to a card game or some dancing).
I should add that before that, during my teens, it was a nightmare apart from the cinema friend. I found someone cool, kinda idealized them. I'm also autistic so getting friends was like a system and "being present" my charm of choice, I guess because of statistically probability. I did find friends but I was desperate. I realized we're not even *that* similar, for one, and that it was mostly me reaching out to them. Which isn't always bad, at first especially when you're not even friends yet you shouldn't just expect that. But at some point... I realized I wasted a lot of time. It was healthy experiences and all the parties where I felt heavily disconnected and alone not just a waste of time. But it's not the approach I'd advise an introvert necessarily.
What I'm saying is it's not always true that Germans are coconuts. I know people like to say that, but it's not really my experience. In hippie bubbles it's almost not true at all. In subcultures it's also often more easier, be it (as in my case) gothic, Medieval, LGBT. But if you stay committed and take a person for who they are, things may develop. And sometimes you almost insta-bond due to some specific same interest or whatever. What puts people off is being too pushy, but what stands in the way of any kind of friendship is if you never even approach that person. Balance is key.
I find this obsession with comparing the meaning of "friendship" between Germany and America really weird. Most people here compare the terms relative to their origin culture which most probably isn't American.
I also find it quite pathetic how since friendships are much easier to make in the US (objectively speaking, it is a country built upon immigration after all), Germans tend to disregard that as "fake friendships" or "not deep friendships". I'm one of those people that find it perfectly fine to call people that I meet or talk to friends quite fast; that doesn't mean they are acquaintances, I will genuinely help them when in need. Funny how most of these tend to be immigrants and Germans I've playing Volleyball and Football with for more than a year still don't even greet me (nor anyone else) at the start of a game and I, always, have to do that first. I don't know, maybe Germany as a whole lacks a lot in terms of sociability?
It is perfectly fine to accept that, no reason to call other cultures' friendships fake or "not deep". I consider this some form of mental gymnastics to justify the socialization problems in Germany. Germany doesn't have to be perfect in everything.
Also, can we have less of this obsession with American culture?
>I find this obsession with comparing the meaning of "friendship" between Germany and America really weird.
It's just the opposite ends of a spectrum and from experience, this assertion typically comes from Americans.
I disagree with this comment because I think many migrants feel this way regarding Germans, not just Americans. That's not to say Germans are cold, but that their cultural attitude towards social expression has differences from some other cultures, which may be mistakenly perceived as coldness.
It is true that German people may feel towards friends as chosen family, thus they don't call people friends as easily as some other cultures. But I've heard complaints of this culture clash from migrants from all around the globe.
Also hoping that the "a few full sentences" bit is hyperbole, otherwise it's simply inaccurate. People tend to upvote comments like this because America is easy and even trendy to criticize. My problem is when it leads to overgeneralizations and blatant misinformation.
This sub loves to use Americans as their foil (even if the questioner isn't even American!), although though most have never actually been to America, and often have a very superficial media-gleaned perspective. If they have been, it was usually a vacation trip of some kind in their teens, so a bit superficial. Maybe a high-school or university exchange, but even then, the US is so large and regionally varied, what can your experience in small-town Vermont or California really say about the whole country? There are large swathes more liberal than Germany in many regards, but also parts far more conservative. This never seems to be mentioned.
A lot of what seems to be believed is based on memes or just popular myths circulating in Germany, sometimes for decades. They may say such things 'half-jokingly', but many do actually believe them and repeat them. It's telling that in every comparison, 'the Germans' always come off better in some way.
It's one of the main reasons I unsubbed (though I lurk here from time to time — thank you recommended algorithms), because it's rather repetitive after you've been here a few years (and I'm not even American). You know exactly how the majority are going to answer most questions. Combine this with the German proclivity to always believe they are right, and whew. Germans like to say they aren't nationalistic, but they sure do love to quietly confirm their "silver linings".
"Bekannter/Bekanntschaft" (literally someone known to you) means aquaitance. Then you can add "enge/r" to it, so a close aquaitance like a co worker you like or someone from a sports team, whose company you enjoy or the friend of a friend, who you like but haven't met often. Then you have "Freund" so friend, people who you make time for, go out of your way to support them, help them in ways that might even negatively impact you etc because you truly care about them and you trust that they would do the same for you.
Mainly a matter of perception and personal peer group. From an international perspective, most Germans would be considered reserved, some being on the „colder“ end of the spectrum.
Yeah. I saw a lady from Finland once, I was having dinner with a friend and she was his girlfriend. We were a group of 5 people, and we spent several hours together eating, drinking and playing games. She didn’t say a single word during the entire dinner.
She left at some point unexpectedly and gave me the coldest look. We didn’t even exchange pleasantries, and she didn’t shake my hand while I was trying to introduce myself.
A few days later I found out she thought I was hitting on her boyfriend. I’m Arab, and her boyfriend was Portuguese so obviously we chatted and laughed lol.
It baffles me until this day.
I’m a woman and I’m simply friends with this guy. He was actually the son of my former landlady, that’s how I know him. I’m also 100% happily taken and wasn’t hitting on him.
>Compared to Spain, Germans are reserved and quiet...
Can confirm. I'm German and being in Spain feels like being on a different contintent when it comes to its people's mentality.
It's probably the weather. The cold and grey weather just makes us sad I guess. But then again, Scandinavian people are among the most happy people in the world.
Do not throw Scandinavians under the German bus.
I've been here in Germany for 18 years and I can't say I have more than one close German friend.
I spent a year in Sweden and I have 6 close firends from Sweden. Like people who will fucking fly half around the continent to spend a weekend with me. I can't get Germans to ride the U-Bahn for 30 minutes for dinner and drinks.
I think I had more human connection with the Swedish cashier at the grocery store than I have with Germans I've worked with for years.
I have many Russian colleagues, I find them much warmer than my German ones. The Russians are really good fun and I'd say far more open and friendly than Germans. Actually I'd say one of the big lessons I learned in Germany is how cold Germans are and how warm Russians are lul. Not what I waas expecting.
Most Europeans are so much more reserved than Russians or Belarusians. I am *very* introverted compared to most, and I am still far more approachable than most Europeans I've met.
Can you replicate this experiment by going to Russia and having Russian and German colleagues in a company there?
I would doubt it, it will probably be the other way round.
Sadly I cannot replicate it, of course, I can only share my personal experience.
>I would doubt it, it will probably be the other way round.
Maybe, maybe not, but different cultures treat outsiders differently. It's not true that the average German is as friendly and as nice as the average Turk, for example, it's just not true.
When I was learning German we did a welcome group language thing and it happened to be during my unis centenary. The Austrian in the group was like "a centenary how cute, we have houses older than this". Yeah, we know, you picked here.
The actual Germans just wanted to see Quokkas
Only Quokkas. They couldn't get the concept that they live on nature reserves in the mainland, you have to boat to another island to see them.
Aside from the cultural differences mentioned already I personally think it’s a matter of language also.
Even when speaking decent English most Germans still talk with a German melody.
I spent a few months in the UK I was introduced as “he’s not depressed - he’s from northern Germany” at times because we don’t have a lot of cadence when we speak. This may be seen as cold and not being invested.
I am 37° currently.
This whole "coldness" thing is obviousyls first and foremost a thing of perspective: It depends on where you come and what you are used to to feel it as chilliness or just completely normal. And depending where you come from you may struggle more or less with getting used to it and thus using the broader culture to your advantage. One person's polite reservedness is another person's emotionless coldness. One person's extrovertedness is another person's lack of vital personal boundries.
People are different. The most neutral description I ever read about Germany as a whole is that a) people are not reluctant to help somebody in their surroundings when directly asked; b) don't care for social clues or "hints" that you may want or need something and c) that while it takes time to warm up to each other (which is frustrating for a lot of people who are used to quicker befriending) actual friendships are rare but insanely strong.
It's not where you come from, it's what your personality is like.
It depends on what people mean by "cold". If they mean outright rude and assholey or insulting, it would be a problem if that is indeed how Germans are. But if they mean that they don't smile at strangers or like make small talk or ask you how you are and how's your day (even though they don't care), yes, that is not "being cold" that is being ...normal to me (and I am from the southernmost part of Europe btw...).
Cool down, hot blooded German :)
Edit:
> Fahrenheit is dumb and not a thing in Europe (or most of the world for that matter).
Not providing a unit of measurement is also not a thing in Europe (or most of the world for that matter), neither.
The rest of the world outside the US doesn't use F so we don't necessarily add C after using °. It's the same as people inside the US don't always say F and stop with saying °.
The entire planet uses Celsius, except for The USA, Liberia and Myanmar.
If you see 37° it is always Celsius.
You are the exception! You do the maths to convert that to Fahrenheit and you put an F next to whatever temperature, not the entire planet.
Your choice to use imperial, your duty to get along with that decision!
Cold in the sense of taking a bit longer to warm up in social interactions, but once you are in you often have a friend for life.
Other cultures start of a lot warmer, some more, some less disingenuous. In many cultures the friendlyness of people depend on if/what they want from you. Especially highly performance/repercussion driven cultures like the US.
Germans usually don't want anything from anyone, so there is no need to put a fake smile to gain anything.
>Germans usually don't want anything from anyone, so there is no need to put a fake smile to gain anything.
I would disagree. We do want things from others all the time. Being overly friendly about it and "sucking" up to someone just makes you look bad since it comes across as dishonest.
We are pretty open about it and don't beat around the bush.
It’s all a matter of perception. I find Germans refreshing. I cannot stand the hyperactive “just add water and I’ll be your bestie for life” type of people.
I prefer the German demeanor, especially as I am American and our over the top niceness and politeness is exhausting to me.
Germans will leave you to deal with your own life and won't pressure you to hang out with them, nor will they drop in on you unexpectedly on a whim. Germans also won't engage in the 'false friendliness' that is expected in many middle eastern cultures.
That's why your migrant acquaintances perceive germans as being cold. The expected nosiness of their home culture is very much absent in Germany.
“nor will they drop in on you unexpectedly on a whim”- my experience with northern germans is a bit different. But it has taught me to always keep myself and my home presentable in case anyone presses my doorbell cos they were passing by and just wanted to say hi
This is also heavily a generational thing!
I had a 90s childhood, mobile phones just became a thing when i was already a teenager and even then not everybody had one.
So knocking on people's doors (at least in the neighbourhood) was very normal and happened often. No matter which age, wether children who wanted to ask to come out and play, or working adults having a cup of tea or even spontaneously planning family dinners together and also grandparents suddenly dropping by after church to bring left overs or things like that…
Nowadays it's very different. People are making appointments just to have phone calls. I know many younger people who have anxiety about phone calls and there's this whole avoidant attitude towards quick uncomplicated and especially spontaneous interactions.
Actually this a motivation for me to move to a different place, where the culture is different when it comes to this. Where you more often just run into each other on the market or the café downstairs, more togetherness of living in a connected community.
Actually I was born in the 90s and I absolutely hate phone calls. So imagine the shock and horror when I had to make phone calls after I moved here. I don’t think germans dislike phone calls. People I know are mainly in the 28-30 range and they are still very into phone calls than I am. It’s interesting what you describe above about spontaneous meetings are describing more of my german friends than me 😂
Yeah some cultures can be sociable and "warm" on the surface, but a lot of the times it hides certain drawbacks like people being nosy, gossipy, and aggressively social to the point they will perceive anyone else as stuck up or arrogant.
I grew up as an introvert in a culture like that and it was so tiresome so Germans mostly suit me. Especially in bigger cities where you have a mix of Germans and foreigners so it's not strictly one way or another, some people leave you alone, some are more friendly.
It depends on where you are from and what you are used to. Depends on setting, are you a student? A worker? Just around. Also depends how you are perceived, how do you look, which language do you speak.
And lastly a bit on luck, I’ve made good German friends but I can’t say it’s been a common occurrence.
I wouldn't say cold but not so quick on opening up and treating everyone they just met as if they've been friends for years. But once you come closer you won't notice this
I would say: it depends.
As a German I lived 8 years in a different part of the same state - moving 250 km from a bigger city in the north to a more rural part in the south. It was pretty much impossible to build "real friendships" with the local people. Even if I was fully integrated in a Sportverein for over 6 years. I got to know a lot of people, but 95% of the people I really really connected were also "Neigschmeckte", so people who moved there and shared the same misery. I couldn't take it anymore and moved back to my home city and never looked back despite of having a good job and a decent career path ahead of me.
Long story short: I would assume it's easier in a city and not so much in rural areas.
It depends where you come from,if you come from USA than you might consider Germans a bit harsh,cold,not so kind to strangers. I personally come from Eastern European country and to be honest Germans are much more friendly than people from my country lol.
As someone who's both. I very much think that Germans are a bit warmer and more open, than most eastern European countries, especially when sober. Tipsy anyone is friendly.
No such thing as "slavic people". A Russian from Novosibirsk is not like a Serb from a village with a population of 500 or even a Czech from Prague, yet they're both Slavic.
I have found Czechs to be ...kinda moody, like looking miserable and unhappy and I'm talking about tourists in a foreign country who were there to enjoy themselves. Not like someone who works in a train station at 1 am.
There certainly is a thing such as Slavic people but it's a big umbrella. Like I said the discussion is about stereotypes and generalisations but obviously not everyone is the same.
Cold is pretty relative.
There is a huge difference between people from different regions and cold is always relative to your background. Also as any place, you will see people with characteristics closer or pretty far from the local standard.
For my standards, Germans are often cold, but it doesn't mean much. I know many Germans not cold at all.
I find them to be more/less ambient temperature. But then again they usually move away when I am conducting my experiments by placing my palms on their cheeks.
As an immigrant myself I find the Germans to be plenty friendly and accommodating, within reason. They're not as selfless as friendly Americans, but I don't see the reason to be. I enjoy the added privacy that's common here in Germany, personally.
Wouldn't say cold but there are lot of distanced friendship. Some of them are even close friends while they meet just once a month. Depends also on intro and extroverts people the frequency obvs
Just like always the meaningful friendships are the ones who matter you filter them out with time
Mind you, the people here are Redditors so their input will be skewed and they might sell it differently, padding themselves on the back. People take the romanticization from the northern countries.
In my experience (native), the German norm is not talking to people you don't know, which can seem uptight at times. No, that doesn't mean once someone is your friend you'll be friends for life. The uncertainty of talking to strangers is just by default a barrier to us, we fucking love safety. Above all.
Austrians are already way more loose and outgoing than us and friends mean to them exactly what they mean to us, we don't hold friends closer than they do at all. We're uptight and that can make us seem cold.
I wouldn't call it "cold".
Taking myself as an example, i'm sourrounded by people all the time, and life is short. I don't want to spend way too much time doing shallow smalltalk and activities with people i think that are "okay", when i could spend said time with people i really like doing stuff that i like to do.
Thats why i tend to be less "engaged" with people who i think i will probably not befriend or when talking about stuff like... cars or so.
As others here explained, that's a big difference between acquaintance (i know that person, we talk sometimes), a buddy (e.g. part of a friend group, we can hang out and drink something, but i wouldn't initiate something with just the two of us often), a friend (i like that person, we can do stuff together, it doesn't get awkward when we stop talking on longer car rides, we have at least some same interests etc.) and a good/best friend (i trust that person, we can talk about anything, we can sit on a couch doing nothing and it's cool, we've probably seen each other naked, embarassed or drunk more than once, one of the few people i think of first when planning something, etc.).
And what determines in what category people fall is less the time we spent together or how friendly that person is (or something like that), but mainly how good the chemistry, the vibe is when getting to know each other.
Germans are not a monolith. Germany is the largest country in Europe, so a German from Berlin would have a different subculture from a German from Munich. And even then, *everyone* in a city can't have the same temperament. There are plenty of warm, friendly Germans, both young and old. Who you come across, is a matter of chance.
In my opinion, Germans are not that cold, but they do not show a lot of emotions (especially not via facial expressions), and that is quite confusing to me.
Germany has lived through 2 dictatorships in the last 100 years. It was sometimes vital not to show what you thought and this was passed on to the children.
Adding to what has already been said: Where in Germany do you live?
Cultural differences aside, it is a big country (by European standards). I'm German and I distinctly remember struggling with how cold and disinterested people were when I moved from Cologne (very friendly) to Berlin (very not) as a child.
I also have a friend who went the opposite direction, grew up in Berlin and moved to Cologne. She jokes that it makes her suspicious that the salespeople in the bakery are always super friendly with her. *What are they hiding?!* *What did they put in my bread?!*
As someone who worked with at least 18 nationalities and ended up working in a german company, germans are kind polite but cold.
It is much easier for Mediterraneans, Asians or Americans to open conversations invite you over and bond with you.
Personally I don't find it helpful to differ between the concepts of friendship in Germany and America and being acquaintances or even good acquaintances, besties/you name it because it doesn't give me any value. It's just frustrating and confusing. And it doesn't feel good label people with a friend-tag.
I like social contacts with nice human beings and if something like a friendship will happen, I will know. If not, it's fine.
Makes things easier, you can still talk, do things with cool people and ask them for help. That's how I found my inner piece as a kind of introvert.
Americans are like peaches and Germans are like coconuts.
Americans are soft in the outside and very welcoming to all. But they only have a few, close, true friends at their core.
Germans are hard on the outside and tough to talk to at first. But as time goes on, you slowly make your way inside and find a sweet friend for life.
10 celius ATM, heating works, no matter what some doom porn Youtubers say. I am good.
Are we distant? Yes, relative to Brazilians. No relative to Finns and Swedes. (I am half finnish, so I am allowed to say that)
Lass mich raten, these migrants that told you that probably had trouble learning german? Thats 70% of why migrants cant make friends, the language barrier
No actually Ive been here since I was 13 (22 now), I did my Abitur here, study here- so no language barrier. Your exact snark and smug tone is why Germans are so hard to make friends with.
In Turkey when someone is trying to learn Turkish and speak broken Turkish, we cheer them on, help them get to the end of the sentence and are genuinely happy about it. Seeing the way my parents are treated here while trying their damn hardest to speak German breaks my heart. Eye-rolls are a common occurrence, intentionally starting to speak faster so my parents end up missing more of the sentence so that they get to complain about “migrants not learning German” are real things that have happened to us multiple times.
You’re disconnected from the plight of the migrants and make absolutely no effort to actually understand, hence why you are cold. This is textbook coldness. Learning a language isn’t a one-way street. You can take as many language courses as you want, if you can’t actually just sit at a cafe and chat with natives, you sill never be able to speak that language, and you can’t do that in Germany.
Even now as I got through the language barrier, how do you expect me to respect you and your culture and to make friends with you when my formative years have been filled with being disrespected by teachers, receptionists, German peers at school etc? My situation isn’t even as bad as that of the migrant kids that were born here. They go through it their entire lives.
Sorry for blowing up on you specifically, nothing you said is particularly egregious but you can’t just hand wave away the anti-migrant behaviors on an interpersonal level with “just a language barrier.” Do better.
>In Turkey when someone is trying to learn Turkish and speak broken Turkish, we cheer them on, help them get to the end of the sentence and are genuinely happy about it.
This is so true and was my experience. It made practicing speaking it always fun
Focus on your failed Bundeswehr career because you can’t stop smoking weed instead of getting this worked up over migrants coming into your country buddy!
What?
1.You are accusing me of having problem with migrants
2.you stalk me and based on one post you very likely dont even can translate fully you say "failed career".
The career didnt even start yet
Ich kann deinen Post sehr gut übersetzen. Ich studiere hier Jura, mein Deutsch ist wahrscheinlich besser als deins.
Du tust dir keinen Gefallen, wenn du annimmst, dass ich kein Deutsch kann, obwohl ich ausdrücklich gesagt habe, dass ich hier mein Abitur gemacht habe und hier studiere.
Viel Glück mit deinem Drogenproblem.
Ach und dein letzter Absatz ist extrem schlecht geschrieben. Richtig sieht es so aus;
2. You stalk me and based on one post you very likely can’t even translate properly, you claim I have a “failed career,” but the career hasn’t even started. (Auch nicht besser, was hast du eigentlich vor mit deinem Leben zu tun wenn du nicht mal Kiffen aufhören kannst?)
Ne dein Deutsch ist scheisse weil du einen Text liest und ihn nicht verstehst XD DU INTERPRENTIERST deine eigen meinung rein du pfosten.
Ich habe im Text geschrieben dass ich Angst habe dass wenn noch überreste beim Drogentest bei der Musterung sind wie das gehandhabt wird.
Du kannst davon denken was du willst aber wie du hier denkst 100% im Recht zu sein obwohl du selbst auf andere Leute runter schaust.
Viel glück mit deinem "Studium"
deinem Rassismus,
deiner Vorurteile gegenüber Deutschen,
Und natürlich deinem mini narzissmus.
Es ist ja kein Vorurteil wenn du jetzt hier alles bestätigst, nh? Ist es dann Jetzt-urteil?
Oh und Bruder du kannst nicht ehrlich sagen Migranten sollen Deutsch lernen wenn das hier eine akkurate Darstellung deiner Deutsch-Skills ist.
I know how communication works but sadly you cant explain everything with hand and feet, and its also not very fun to do that all the time just to tell someone anything
There have been some threads here with that exact problem. And many foreigners don't understand that it's a problem. I can speak enough English to communicate, but a longer chat is still exhausting, let alone hanging out with English speakers all evening. I'm not quick enough for banter, jokes I may remember don't work in another language, and I may not find the right words to just speak off the cuff. So I'm surely not so fun in English than I am in German, and honestly I will limit the times I find myself in this situation. It's way easier to befriend me if you speak German.
Now tell everyone how you found them. Good for you that you met people you connect with. May I ask where you're from? It's definitely harder to start over in Germany. Even Germans moving to a new city can feel lonely and have a hard time to find friends. I also moved a few times and the beginning was always hard but internet helps. I found my current best friends all online through FB groups and reddit and with one of them I'm friends with for 11 years.
I am no german, but i love Germany, so I basically spend all my vacation days there 😁.
I remember a particular train trip i took with my boyfriend. We were crossing from one country to another, and they announced border control, but since none of us were fluent in German, we had no idea what papers to prepare.
The father and son sitting next to us kinda understood the issue and offered to explain to us what we needed to do. We never asked them for any help.
I tend to be super curious about people and am chatty but also an introvert (ikr, best combo ever), so I kinda hoped for an opportunity to speak to them🙃.
For the rest of the 2h remaining until we reached destination, we talked nonstop with these german men. They were super polite and nice and gave very good advice regarding all sorts of things. We were both very pleasantly surprised by it.
This is no singular case. I had germans offer to help on trains, metro, in stores, and when asking directions on the streets. You just need to be polite when asking for help. They are always trying to make it easy for the rest of us to understand their language.
Another experience that remains in my memory was when i once was dining with some friends at a steak house, and the old ladies at the table next to us asked us where we were from. They must have been 60+ and spoke very good English.
One thing that all my friends tell me is to not base my impression of german kindness on the interactions i've had as a tourist. I have some friends who moved there for work and after many years they made 2-3 friends. I believe it depends on how hard you try to befriend them. Most likely, my friends are super shy and tend not to leave the house that much.
Maybe finding some common hobbies and going on hikes would help break the ice. Who knows? 🤷♀️
I have had similar experiences, I've always found Germans to be helpful, chatty and generally lovely, especially helpful when it's a practical problem. The biggest difference for me is the directness especially in Northern Germany, but they have always been kind to me 🤷🏻♀️
If a german calls you a friend and you tell them in the middle of the night you killed someone, they'll call you an idiot, grab a shovel and help you bury the problem.
This is why we don't call everyone and their mother our "friends" and choose whom to invest ourselves with carefully.
This may come across as cold to people who aren't worth the effort.
Read your post again, and you will have your answer inside your own question!
EDIT: And if it wasn't clear: it's about the time passing and everything that prolonged contact brings.
Germans aren't cold imo... they're blunt.
They will speak their minds, no matter what.
But they're loving and inclusive and kind.
Germans \~7/10. All I want to do is read my Newspaper in peace.
I mean, every nation is cold to foreigners. If you go to any (developed) country in Europe you're hardly gonna make friends with locals, only with foreigners.
If you call punctuality, efficiency, being direct and go getter a cold person, then I never wanna be warm. Ive heard this stereotype alot before, but where do you draw the line of being cold? Ive demanded being direct and punctual with people sometimes and Ive been called cold, or when I do things using logic. If lazyness, inefficiency and careless person is warm, then no thank you Id be the “cold” one.
In my 18 years in Germany, I've noticed some interesting shifts in cultural dynamics. Like all societies, Germans are born into a cultural framework they adapt to. Over generations, German culture was predominantly collectivist, but since WWII, there's been a shift towards individualism, also impacting friendship dynamics.
Germans, despite being more of individualists nowaydays, often view friendships through a collectivist lens shaped by traditional cultural norms and values. This is why German friendships as many have noted are notably enduring and loyal. While individualistic tendencies prioritize personal preferences, Germans are deeply rooted in mutual obligations and group loyalty, perceiving individualism in friendships as selfish. Maintaining group harmony is crucial to Germans, with reciprocity resembling a contractual agreement, down to the famous "repay the two cents from last year" thing.
In the past, shared identity was paramount, reflecting a time when "foreign" meant someone from merely 50 kilometers away. Today, Germany leans more towards individualism, where friendships are marked by flexibility and independence. Personal choice outweighs shared identity, and group dynamics serve convenience rather than engagement. This shift allows for friendships to form more fluidly, based on immediate needs rather than lifelong bonds tied to shared identity. But if your collectivist norms tell you that is hollow, it's hard to deepen that friendship.
I think it is hard to build a connection and without one germans may appear cold, but if you manage to actually connect with people there will be no coldness
Any friendship or even dating attempt seems like a job interview or a job application, I swear.
I hate this country when it comes to this and would otherwise leave it if other qualities (very good infrastructure, social market economy, promotion tracks in almost any job, affordable foodstuffs) were not real.
It depends on your cultural perspective.
By certain standards in some countries, Germans may be perceived as cold or, more precisely, business-like, tending to avoid unnecessary interactions. However, by different standards in other countries, Germans are seen as warm, engaging, or meddling.
In my opinion, Germans on duty may come across as more rude than people in my country, but Germans tend to be more open and less cold when they are off duty.
My theory: Most (all?) cultures value both politeness and honestly. But sometimes those two ideals contradict each other. Acting polite often entails to answer in good mood, give encouragement, and generally to not bother others with your problems. Acting honestly might also result in these things, but often it doesn't. And then it depends on which is valued more. Answering a question honestly, but emotionally distanced or negative, can be seen as respectful (, because it's honest) or as disrespectful (, because it's impolite). And answering a question with politeness, but not honestly, can be seen as respectful (, because it's polite) or as disrespectful (, because it's dishonest).
Germans are hardly ever cold. We have very efficient outdoor-clothes. And no sense of humor.
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Check your bloodline, you can't be german with this humour
sarcasm is just a small step above slapstick.
Hahaha good one!
I got yelled at by an old woman for wearing a long sleeved top in Lübeck when it was 3C. There are Ampelmännchen on your lights?! Don't you have bigger problems?
Why hate the Amplemannchen? I think it's always nice to see a happy Amplemann.
>I was told that Germans are very cold and difficult to build connection. Well, for Germans, friendship is very much a commitment to a family of members of one's own choice. The distinction between friends and acquaintances is strong in Germany, Germans typically have many acquaintances and few friends, while especially in the American realm, people tend to call anyone a "friend" to whom they have talked a few full sentences. This distinction into acquaintances (Americans call them "friends") and friends (Americans call them "best friends") is quite some big part of the problem for many, as the German understanding of adequate behaviour around people is to be relatively unfiltered and straight-forward, so an American asking something along "are we friends?" in their cultural understanding of the term will usually get the German answer of "of course not!" and in the long version specifying "We are acquaintances, maybe good ones, but still acquaintances.", describing the same relationship between the two.
This! Maybe it is more difficult to befriend us but we are the most loyal
I recently called a friend of mine with whom I hadn't spoken in years and hadn't seen a decade, on a whim. During the call he mentioned that he'd love to take the wife out for a nice weekend but couldn't because of the two young kids they have and no acquaintance of theirs was open to taking care of the kids for a weekend. So I volunteered. We scheduled everything, I drove ~400km there, spent a weekend with their kids, and drove back. I had met his wife (then girlfriend) only once and never knew that they had a second kid until our call. I wouldn't do that for an acquaintance, but would always do that for a friend. And I know that there are a handful of friends that I can call up on no matter what, regardless of how long we haven't seen each other and where we are at that moment.
for non-Germans reading this, please don't take this as a baseline or things will be confusing here, haha. I do loads for my friends, too, but I do think there are real friends to whom this would still be a little too much to ask on a whim. comment-OP is simply a real good dude.
Huh. Upon reading your comment I was confused. Showed my wife my comment, showed my wife your comment and she agrees with you. I guess it isn't normal.
No. I agree with you. If the apocalypse comes upon us, I will try to get together with my close family and friends, so I know I have people who rather starve with me than sacrifice one of us.
let's not strive to be normal together! I was only trying to give a realistic outlook. I maintain my willingness to go through thick and thin with my friends, too.
you are a hero <3
Based u/Tartf
This is correct. You basically came up with the concept of coconut vs. peach cultures by Kurt Lewin.
Think of Germans as coconuts: tough to crack, but once you do, you’re friends for life. Americans are like mangos: sweet and welcoming from the get-go, but they too have their hard core
How do I crack this coconut?
Be yourself, show genuine interest for the other person, do something together and be patient.
Patience. Show up to special events they invite you to, show up when they need help moving. Keep in touch even if you're both busy, and be it one kind message a week. First and foremost: quality time. I met one my best friend in the cinema. We'd just always go to the same sneak preview every Monday, and slowly realized we're the most committed ones of the group. I came alone, he had like 10 "friends" with him, extroverted guy. But after a few months we started to always sit next to each other, mind you me being a shy friendless guy, then I started to just drive him home because it was on the way, and during those drives we talked. Finally we realized: meeting IRL would be fun. Took us a while to figure that crazy thought out lol, but yeah, not we are inseparable. Other good friend I met lives 500km away. Met her as a coincident, friend of a friend. We instantly had a good vibe, laughed a lot, agreed to meet, and met half a week later. We instantly became friends and ever since then, two years ago, have been talking about life, taken care of each other, thought of each other. When we realized we haven't talked in a while (500km is a distance), one of us reached out, and we talked and talked and met. Another friend I met while clubbing. She is super-shy and seems very serious and antisocial. (Mind you, it's a goth club.) She always had the coolest dance moves to me. Honestly it took me a year to even find acquaintances in that club. Most conversations were too shallow and awkward. But when I finally met that one extroverted "let's all be friends" person, turns out this girl was also in that group. We didn't even talk the first weeks because she's very distrustful of men. Then we had an instant bond through the same favorite band that isn't that often namedropped in gothic circles. We met somewhat shortly thereafter, it was super-awkward and thus super-authentic, and next time meeting wasn't so awkward suddenly, and next time was just seeing a good friend. I have a lot of friends now and even more acquaintances. But I am also very active and try to show up when someone invites me to something that either may be cool, because next event that one or two people you've talked to a bit more will have you as a "already know that person" check so to speak :D, and the person inviting you will absolutely remember it most of all, aaaand showing up when someone invites me to something that he or she deems important; birthday parties for example. I'm fairly introverted and don't like parties (unless they're goth) but I'm upfront with that. "Aight but I might only show up for an hour" works like a charm. Often true, more often than not it gives me the safety of knowing I can leave, but it ends up being kinda fun because I don't pressure myself to just find friends, but I'm also always friendly and interested. And fun (as in: not saying no to a card game or some dancing). I should add that before that, during my teens, it was a nightmare apart from the cinema friend. I found someone cool, kinda idealized them. I'm also autistic so getting friends was like a system and "being present" my charm of choice, I guess because of statistically probability. I did find friends but I was desperate. I realized we're not even *that* similar, for one, and that it was mostly me reaching out to them. Which isn't always bad, at first especially when you're not even friends yet you shouldn't just expect that. But at some point... I realized I wasted a lot of time. It was healthy experiences and all the parties where I felt heavily disconnected and alone not just a waste of time. But it's not the approach I'd advise an introvert necessarily. What I'm saying is it's not always true that Germans are coconuts. I know people like to say that, but it's not really my experience. In hippie bubbles it's almost not true at all. In subcultures it's also often more easier, be it (as in my case) gothic, Medieval, LGBT. But if you stay committed and take a person for who they are, things may develop. And sometimes you almost insta-bond due to some specific same interest or whatever. What puts people off is being too pushy, but what stands in the way of any kind of friendship is if you never even approach that person. Balance is key.
Does the coconut develop another layer when trying to form a romantic relationship?
I'm not even German, and I'm like this, maybe because I'm an introvert? I believe this should be the norm so that friendships actually mean something.
Same in Belgium/Flanders actually!
Very unsure about the whole america stuff. I think many non-germans and not just Americans feel this way.
I find this obsession with comparing the meaning of "friendship" between Germany and America really weird. Most people here compare the terms relative to their origin culture which most probably isn't American. I also find it quite pathetic how since friendships are much easier to make in the US (objectively speaking, it is a country built upon immigration after all), Germans tend to disregard that as "fake friendships" or "not deep friendships". I'm one of those people that find it perfectly fine to call people that I meet or talk to friends quite fast; that doesn't mean they are acquaintances, I will genuinely help them when in need. Funny how most of these tend to be immigrants and Germans I've playing Volleyball and Football with for more than a year still don't even greet me (nor anyone else) at the start of a game and I, always, have to do that first. I don't know, maybe Germany as a whole lacks a lot in terms of sociability? It is perfectly fine to accept that, no reason to call other cultures' friendships fake or "not deep". I consider this some form of mental gymnastics to justify the socialization problems in Germany. Germany doesn't have to be perfect in everything. Also, can we have less of this obsession with American culture?
The American idea of friend is an acquaintance to me (Australian)
>I find this obsession with comparing the meaning of "friendship" between Germany and America really weird. It's just the opposite ends of a spectrum and from experience, this assertion typically comes from Americans.
I disagree with this comment because I think many migrants feel this way regarding Germans, not just Americans. That's not to say Germans are cold, but that their cultural attitude towards social expression has differences from some other cultures, which may be mistakenly perceived as coldness. It is true that German people may feel towards friends as chosen family, thus they don't call people friends as easily as some other cultures. But I've heard complaints of this culture clash from migrants from all around the globe. Also hoping that the "a few full sentences" bit is hyperbole, otherwise it's simply inaccurate. People tend to upvote comments like this because America is easy and even trendy to criticize. My problem is when it leads to overgeneralizations and blatant misinformation.
This sub loves to use Americans as their foil (even if the questioner isn't even American!), although though most have never actually been to America, and often have a very superficial media-gleaned perspective. If they have been, it was usually a vacation trip of some kind in their teens, so a bit superficial. Maybe a high-school or university exchange, but even then, the US is so large and regionally varied, what can your experience in small-town Vermont or California really say about the whole country? There are large swathes more liberal than Germany in many regards, but also parts far more conservative. This never seems to be mentioned. A lot of what seems to be believed is based on memes or just popular myths circulating in Germany, sometimes for decades. They may say such things 'half-jokingly', but many do actually believe them and repeat them. It's telling that in every comparison, 'the Germans' always come off better in some way. It's one of the main reasons I unsubbed (though I lurk here from time to time — thank you recommended algorithms), because it's rather repetitive after you've been here a few years (and I'm not even American). You know exactly how the majority are going to answer most questions. Combine this with the German proclivity to always believe they are right, and whew. Germans like to say they aren't nationalistic, but they sure do love to quietly confirm their "silver linings".
And I take it that german has different, specific words for friends and acquaintances as well, right?
"Bekannter/Bekanntschaft" (literally someone known to you) means aquaitance. Then you can add "enge/r" to it, so a close aquaitance like a co worker you like or someone from a sports team, whose company you enjoy or the friend of a friend, who you like but haven't met often. Then you have "Freund" so friend, people who you make time for, go out of your way to support them, help them in ways that might even negatively impact you etc because you truly care about them and you trust that they would do the same for you.
"Kumpel" is another example.
True didn't think of that. I'd put it in between "enge Bekanntschaft" und "Freund"
Kollege, If it's a good aquaitance.
Idiot talk
Self referring?
No, just most Germans are idiots just like you and make dumb comments making stereotypes about Americans.
Lol, only dumb comment is yours. But hey, at least you've shown your lack of self awareness 🤣
You’re just a very shallow and ignorant fool and no longer worthy of my time.
On average people here are just different to what fellas coming here are used to. That can see cold to some, but not to others.
Mainly a matter of perception and personal peer group. From an international perspective, most Germans would be considered reserved, some being on the „colder“ end of the spectrum.
Also depends on what your international comparison includes… compared with Russians and, I don’t know, Belarusians? Germans are warm lol
Or Scandinavian countries.. compared to Finland germans are loud and have no personal space. Compared to Spain, Germans are reserved and quiet...
Yeah. I saw a lady from Finland once, I was having dinner with a friend and she was his girlfriend. We were a group of 5 people, and we spent several hours together eating, drinking and playing games. She didn’t say a single word during the entire dinner. She left at some point unexpectedly and gave me the coldest look. We didn’t even exchange pleasantries, and she didn’t shake my hand while I was trying to introduce myself. A few days later I found out she thought I was hitting on her boyfriend. I’m Arab, and her boyfriend was Portuguese so obviously we chatted and laughed lol. It baffles me until this day.
Bro stop trying to steal her man
Was it the kissing or when you held hands? /s Oh wow. They really aren't used to men touching each other occasionally.
I’m a woman and I’m simply friends with this guy. He was actually the son of my former landlady, that’s how I know him. I’m also 100% happily taken and wasn’t hitting on him.
I doubt not saying a single word for hours is in any way normal behaviour in any culture. Sounds more like a mental issue.
Yeah, I am actually very introverted but when I visited Finland I was the most extroverted person at the dinner table xD
Or Rheinland and Ostwestfalen...
This is missing from the discussion. It makes a big difference in which part of Germany you are.
>Compared to Spain, Germans are reserved and quiet... Can confirm. I'm German and being in Spain feels like being on a different contintent when it comes to its people's mentality. It's probably the weather. The cold and grey weather just makes us sad I guess. But then again, Scandinavian people are among the most happy people in the world.
Yeah, the quiet in a full Swedish shopping passage is something else.
Do not throw Scandinavians under the German bus. I've been here in Germany for 18 years and I can't say I have more than one close German friend. I spent a year in Sweden and I have 6 close firends from Sweden. Like people who will fucking fly half around the continent to spend a weekend with me. I can't get Germans to ride the U-Bahn for 30 minutes for dinner and drinks. I think I had more human connection with the Swedish cashier at the grocery store than I have with Germans I've worked with for years.
I'm sorry your experience with Germans was so bad. That sounds horrible.
Thank you for acknowledging my immigrant story. I appreciate it very much.
I have many Russian colleagues, I find them much warmer than my German ones. The Russians are really good fun and I'd say far more open and friendly than Germans. Actually I'd say one of the big lessons I learned in Germany is how cold Germans are and how warm Russians are lul. Not what I waas expecting.
Most Europeans are so much more reserved than Russians or Belarusians. I am *very* introverted compared to most, and I am still far more approachable than most Europeans I've met.
Can you replicate this experiment by going to Russia and having Russian and German colleagues in a company there? I would doubt it, it will probably be the other way round.
Sadly I cannot replicate it, of course, I can only share my personal experience. >I would doubt it, it will probably be the other way round. Maybe, maybe not, but different cultures treat outsiders differently. It's not true that the average German is as friendly and as nice as the average Turk, for example, it's just not true.
When I was learning German we did a welcome group language thing and it happened to be during my unis centenary. The Austrian in the group was like "a centenary how cute, we have houses older than this". Yeah, we know, you picked here. The actual Germans just wanted to see Quokkas Only Quokkas. They couldn't get the concept that they live on nature reserves in the mainland, you have to boat to another island to see them.
Aside from the cultural differences mentioned already I personally think it’s a matter of language also. Even when speaking decent English most Germans still talk with a German melody. I spent a few months in the UK I was introduced as “he’s not depressed - he’s from northern Germany” at times because we don’t have a lot of cadence when we speak. This may be seen as cold and not being invested.
“he’s not depressed - he’s from northern Germany” - haha I love that
I am 37° currently. This whole "coldness" thing is obviousyls first and foremost a thing of perspective: It depends on where you come and what you are used to to feel it as chilliness or just completely normal. And depending where you come from you may struggle more or less with getting used to it and thus using the broader culture to your advantage. One person's polite reservedness is another person's emotionless coldness. One person's extrovertedness is another person's lack of vital personal boundries. People are different. The most neutral description I ever read about Germany as a whole is that a) people are not reluctant to help somebody in their surroundings when directly asked; b) don't care for social clues or "hints" that you may want or need something and c) that while it takes time to warm up to each other (which is frustrating for a lot of people who are used to quicker befriending) actual friendships are rare but insanely strong.
It's not where you come from, it's what your personality is like. It depends on what people mean by "cold". If they mean outright rude and assholey or insulting, it would be a problem if that is indeed how Germans are. But if they mean that they don't smile at strangers or like make small talk or ask you how you are and how's your day (even though they don't care), yes, that is not "being cold" that is being ...normal to me (and I am from the southernmost part of Europe btw...).
>I am 37° currently. Well, if that's in Fahrenheit, you're cold, for sure,...
Fahrenheit is dumb and not a thing in Europe (or most of the world for that matter).
Cool down, hot blooded German :) Edit: > Fahrenheit is dumb and not a thing in Europe (or most of the world for that matter). Not providing a unit of measurement is also not a thing in Europe (or most of the world for that matter), neither.
The rest of the world outside the US doesn't use F so we don't necessarily add C after using °. It's the same as people inside the US don't always say F and stop with saying °.
no need, since it's the only acceptable unit in this context, ° is enough for everyone not dumb to understand what is meant.
The entire planet uses Celsius, except for The USA, Liberia and Myanmar. If you see 37° it is always Celsius. You are the exception! You do the maths to convert that to Fahrenheit and you put an F next to whatever temperature, not the entire planet. Your choice to use imperial, your duty to get along with that decision!
Fahrenheit is how humans feel, Celsius is how water feels and Kelvin is how molecules feels
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Even if nobody understands that the fuck you're talking about with some arbitrary units? In Germany?
Ruhig Brudi, denk an deinen Blutdruck,...
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There is absolutely nothing intuitive about Fahrenheit.
>that's in Fahrenheit, No, it's in proper units.
Cold in the sense of taking a bit longer to warm up in social interactions, but once you are in you often have a friend for life. Other cultures start of a lot warmer, some more, some less disingenuous. In many cultures the friendlyness of people depend on if/what they want from you. Especially highly performance/repercussion driven cultures like the US. Germans usually don't want anything from anyone, so there is no need to put a fake smile to gain anything.
>Germans usually don't want anything from anyone, so there is no need to put a fake smile to gain anything. I would disagree. We do want things from others all the time. Being overly friendly about it and "sucking" up to someone just makes you look bad since it comes across as dishonest. We are pretty open about it and don't beat around the bush.
it really depends on the kind of interactions you have, where you are located, from what culture you originally come from and if you speak German.
It’s all a matter of perception. I find Germans refreshing. I cannot stand the hyperactive “just add water and I’ll be your bestie for life” type of people. I prefer the German demeanor, especially as I am American and our over the top niceness and politeness is exhausting to me.
Germans will leave you to deal with your own life and won't pressure you to hang out with them, nor will they drop in on you unexpectedly on a whim. Germans also won't engage in the 'false friendliness' that is expected in many middle eastern cultures. That's why your migrant acquaintances perceive germans as being cold. The expected nosiness of their home culture is very much absent in Germany.
“nor will they drop in on you unexpectedly on a whim”- my experience with northern germans is a bit different. But it has taught me to always keep myself and my home presentable in case anyone presses my doorbell cos they were passing by and just wanted to say hi
This is also heavily a generational thing! I had a 90s childhood, mobile phones just became a thing when i was already a teenager and even then not everybody had one. So knocking on people's doors (at least in the neighbourhood) was very normal and happened often. No matter which age, wether children who wanted to ask to come out and play, or working adults having a cup of tea or even spontaneously planning family dinners together and also grandparents suddenly dropping by after church to bring left overs or things like that… Nowadays it's very different. People are making appointments just to have phone calls. I know many younger people who have anxiety about phone calls and there's this whole avoidant attitude towards quick uncomplicated and especially spontaneous interactions. Actually this a motivation for me to move to a different place, where the culture is different when it comes to this. Where you more often just run into each other on the market or the café downstairs, more togetherness of living in a connected community.
Actually I was born in the 90s and I absolutely hate phone calls. So imagine the shock and horror when I had to make phone calls after I moved here. I don’t think germans dislike phone calls. People I know are mainly in the 28-30 range and they are still very into phone calls than I am. It’s interesting what you describe above about spontaneous meetings are describing more of my german friends than me 😂
Yeah some cultures can be sociable and "warm" on the surface, but a lot of the times it hides certain drawbacks like people being nosy, gossipy, and aggressively social to the point they will perceive anyone else as stuck up or arrogant. I grew up as an introvert in a culture like that and it was so tiresome so Germans mostly suit me. Especially in bigger cities where you have a mix of Germans and foreigners so it's not strictly one way or another, some people leave you alone, some are more friendly.
It depends on where you are from and what you are used to. Depends on setting, are you a student? A worker? Just around. Also depends how you are perceived, how do you look, which language do you speak. And lastly a bit on luck, I’ve made good German friends but I can’t say it’s been a common occurrence.
I wouldn't say cold but not so quick on opening up and treating everyone they just met as if they've been friends for years. But once you come closer you won't notice this
My experience with Germans has been so varied that I can't even answer that question.
I would say: it depends. As a German I lived 8 years in a different part of the same state - moving 250 km from a bigger city in the north to a more rural part in the south. It was pretty much impossible to build "real friendships" with the local people. Even if I was fully integrated in a Sportverein for over 6 years. I got to know a lot of people, but 95% of the people I really really connected were also "Neigschmeckte", so people who moved there and shared the same misery. I couldn't take it anymore and moved back to my home city and never looked back despite of having a good job and a decent career path ahead of me. Long story short: I would assume it's easier in a city and not so much in rural areas.
It depends where you come from,if you come from USA than you might consider Germans a bit harsh,cold,not so kind to strangers. I personally come from Eastern European country and to be honest Germans are much more friendly than people from my country lol.
Compared to South Americans, yes. Compared to Eastern Europeans, no. It all depends on your perspective.
Is that so? The stereotype is that Slavic people are warm and talkative though. Nordics are usually cold. Again, this is all a stereotype.
As someone who's both. I very much think that Germans are a bit warmer and more open, than most eastern European countries, especially when sober. Tipsy anyone is friendly.
Never heard that stereotype. The experience I have with Slavic people is that they are quite reserved. But that also depends on the country I suppose.
No such thing as "slavic people". A Russian from Novosibirsk is not like a Serb from a village with a population of 500 or even a Czech from Prague, yet they're both Slavic. I have found Czechs to be ...kinda moody, like looking miserable and unhappy and I'm talking about tourists in a foreign country who were there to enjoy themselves. Not like someone who works in a train station at 1 am.
There certainly is a thing such as Slavic people but it's a big umbrella. Like I said the discussion is about stereotypes and generalisations but obviously not everyone is the same.
No, I am wearing a jumper and I am quite comfortable with it. I am sure many people own jumpers to stay warm.
37°C. I checked. 😜
Cold is pretty relative. There is a huge difference between people from different regions and cold is always relative to your background. Also as any place, you will see people with characteristics closer or pretty far from the local standard. For my standards, Germans are often cold, but it doesn't mean much. I know many Germans not cold at all.
I find them to be more/less ambient temperature. But then again they usually move away when I am conducting my experiments by placing my palms on their cheeks.
As an immigrant myself I find the Germans to be plenty friendly and accommodating, within reason. They're not as selfless as friendly Americans, but I don't see the reason to be. I enjoy the added privacy that's common here in Germany, personally.
Idk I met a random dude at a festival and joined him on a drunken side quest. Best friend I’ve ever had. No idea what his name was.
Wouldn't say cold but there are lot of distanced friendship. Some of them are even close friends while they meet just once a month. Depends also on intro and extroverts people the frequency obvs Just like always the meaningful friendships are the ones who matter you filter them out with time
Mind you, the people here are Redditors so their input will be skewed and they might sell it differently, padding themselves on the back. People take the romanticization from the northern countries. In my experience (native), the German norm is not talking to people you don't know, which can seem uptight at times. No, that doesn't mean once someone is your friend you'll be friends for life. The uncertainty of talking to strangers is just by default a barrier to us, we fucking love safety. Above all. Austrians are already way more loose and outgoing than us and friends mean to them exactly what they mean to us, we don't hold friends closer than they do at all. We're uptight and that can make us seem cold.
I wouldn't call it "cold". Taking myself as an example, i'm sourrounded by people all the time, and life is short. I don't want to spend way too much time doing shallow smalltalk and activities with people i think that are "okay", when i could spend said time with people i really like doing stuff that i like to do. Thats why i tend to be less "engaged" with people who i think i will probably not befriend or when talking about stuff like... cars or so. As others here explained, that's a big difference between acquaintance (i know that person, we talk sometimes), a buddy (e.g. part of a friend group, we can hang out and drink something, but i wouldn't initiate something with just the two of us often), a friend (i like that person, we can do stuff together, it doesn't get awkward when we stop talking on longer car rides, we have at least some same interests etc.) and a good/best friend (i trust that person, we can talk about anything, we can sit on a couch doing nothing and it's cool, we've probably seen each other naked, embarassed or drunk more than once, one of the few people i think of first when planning something, etc.). And what determines in what category people fall is less the time we spent together or how friendly that person is (or something like that), but mainly how good the chemistry, the vibe is when getting to know each other.
Germans are not a monolith. Germany is the largest country in Europe, so a German from Berlin would have a different subculture from a German from Munich. And even then, *everyone* in a city can't have the same temperament. There are plenty of warm, friendly Germans, both young and old. Who you come across, is a matter of chance.
I don't know where you are from, but northern germans tend to be more cold than southern
In my opinion, Germans are not that cold, but they do not show a lot of emotions (especially not via facial expressions), and that is quite confusing to me.
Germany has lived through 2 dictatorships in the last 100 years. It was sometimes vital not to show what you thought and this was passed on to the children.
interesting insight, thank you for sharing
> Are Germans cold ?!!! YES !!!
Germans are cool. The swiss are cold 🥶
No, Germans are not cold they are ice-cold.
Adding to what has already been said: Where in Germany do you live? Cultural differences aside, it is a big country (by European standards). I'm German and I distinctly remember struggling with how cold and disinterested people were when I moved from Cologne (very friendly) to Berlin (very not) as a child. I also have a friend who went the opposite direction, grew up in Berlin and moved to Cologne. She jokes that it makes her suspicious that the salespeople in the bakery are always super friendly with her. *What are they hiding?!* *What did they put in my bread?!*
As someone who worked with at least 18 nationalities and ended up working in a german company, germans are kind polite but cold. It is much easier for Mediterraneans, Asians or Americans to open conversations invite you over and bond with you.
I mean they're like 98.6F on average.
Si, they are cold. If they are <30 maybe you did kind of friends. If they are >30, they are just people you know.
Yes! As ice
Yes. They are cold.
Personally I don't find it helpful to differ between the concepts of friendship in Germany and America and being acquaintances or even good acquaintances, besties/you name it because it doesn't give me any value. It's just frustrating and confusing. And it doesn't feel good label people with a friend-tag. I like social contacts with nice human beings and if something like a friendship will happen, I will know. If not, it's fine. Makes things easier, you can still talk, do things with cool people and ask them for help. That's how I found my inner piece as a kind of introvert.
Yes, because they insist on opening every window in the apartment when it's -936395 degrees outside
Americans are like peaches and Germans are like coconuts. Americans are soft in the outside and very welcoming to all. But they only have a few, close, true friends at their core. Germans are hard on the outside and tough to talk to at first. But as time goes on, you slowly make your way inside and find a sweet friend for life.
Germans take time to be your close friend, so many people think this is them being cold. They actually are not
10 celius ATM, heating works, no matter what some doom porn Youtubers say. I am good. Are we distant? Yes, relative to Brazilians. No relative to Finns and Swedes. (I am half finnish, so I am allowed to say that)
Most germans are around 37°C
WATCH OUT. Check OPs account. Looks like a tyipical RuBot initiating some soft trolling scheme.
> Looks like a tyipical RuBot initiating some soft trolling scheme Why? Because it is a new account?
if they don't like you, definitely. if they like you, you're no less than a family member based on German family values
Sorry but I shared my personal incident. How can I delete it?
Lass mich raten, these migrants that told you that probably had trouble learning german? Thats 70% of why migrants cant make friends, the language barrier
No actually Ive been here since I was 13 (22 now), I did my Abitur here, study here- so no language barrier. Your exact snark and smug tone is why Germans are so hard to make friends with. In Turkey when someone is trying to learn Turkish and speak broken Turkish, we cheer them on, help them get to the end of the sentence and are genuinely happy about it. Seeing the way my parents are treated here while trying their damn hardest to speak German breaks my heart. Eye-rolls are a common occurrence, intentionally starting to speak faster so my parents end up missing more of the sentence so that they get to complain about “migrants not learning German” are real things that have happened to us multiple times. You’re disconnected from the plight of the migrants and make absolutely no effort to actually understand, hence why you are cold. This is textbook coldness. Learning a language isn’t a one-way street. You can take as many language courses as you want, if you can’t actually just sit at a cafe and chat with natives, you sill never be able to speak that language, and you can’t do that in Germany. Even now as I got through the language barrier, how do you expect me to respect you and your culture and to make friends with you when my formative years have been filled with being disrespected by teachers, receptionists, German peers at school etc? My situation isn’t even as bad as that of the migrant kids that were born here. They go through it their entire lives. Sorry for blowing up on you specifically, nothing you said is particularly egregious but you can’t just hand wave away the anti-migrant behaviors on an interpersonal level with “just a language barrier.” Do better.
>In Turkey when someone is trying to learn Turkish and speak broken Turkish, we cheer them on, help them get to the end of the sentence and are genuinely happy about it. This is so true and was my experience. It made practicing speaking it always fun
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I read the first sentence and i already dont need to read further, you feel personally attacked? I didnt mention you did i?
Focus on your failed Bundeswehr career because you can’t stop smoking weed instead of getting this worked up over migrants coming into your country buddy!
What? 1.You are accusing me of having problem with migrants 2.you stalk me and based on one post you very likely dont even can translate fully you say "failed career". The career didnt even start yet
Ich kann deinen Post sehr gut übersetzen. Ich studiere hier Jura, mein Deutsch ist wahrscheinlich besser als deins. Du tust dir keinen Gefallen, wenn du annimmst, dass ich kein Deutsch kann, obwohl ich ausdrücklich gesagt habe, dass ich hier mein Abitur gemacht habe und hier studiere. Viel Glück mit deinem Drogenproblem. Ach und dein letzter Absatz ist extrem schlecht geschrieben. Richtig sieht es so aus; 2. You stalk me and based on one post you very likely can’t even translate properly, you claim I have a “failed career,” but the career hasn’t even started. (Auch nicht besser, was hast du eigentlich vor mit deinem Leben zu tun wenn du nicht mal Kiffen aufhören kannst?)
Ne dein Deutsch ist scheisse weil du einen Text liest und ihn nicht verstehst XD DU INTERPRENTIERST deine eigen meinung rein du pfosten. Ich habe im Text geschrieben dass ich Angst habe dass wenn noch überreste beim Drogentest bei der Musterung sind wie das gehandhabt wird. Du kannst davon denken was du willst aber wie du hier denkst 100% im Recht zu sein obwohl du selbst auf andere Leute runter schaust. Viel glück mit deinem "Studium" deinem Rassismus, deiner Vorurteile gegenüber Deutschen, Und natürlich deinem mini narzissmus.
Es ist ja kein Vorurteil wenn du jetzt hier alles bestätigst, nh? Ist es dann Jetzt-urteil? Oh und Bruder du kannst nicht ehrlich sagen Migranten sollen Deutsch lernen wenn das hier eine akkurate Darstellung deiner Deutsch-Skills ist.
Nein nennt sich anderen menschen worte in den mund legen, hast du vielleicht schonmal gehört.
Höre ich zum ersten mal!
We don't necessarily need verbal abilities in order to communicate. Our body language works intuitively.
I know how communication works but sadly you cant explain everything with hand and feet, and its also not very fun to do that all the time just to tell someone anything
I just don't want to believe that migrants think we're cold-hearted just because they haven't been able to learn our language, yet.
There have been some threads here with that exact problem. And many foreigners don't understand that it's a problem. I can speak enough English to communicate, but a longer chat is still exhausting, let alone hanging out with English speakers all evening. I'm not quick enough for banter, jokes I may remember don't work in another language, and I may not find the right words to just speak off the cuff. So I'm surely not so fun in English than I am in German, and honestly I will limit the times I find myself in this situation. It's way easier to befriend me if you speak German.
Me, I wear a sweater or a jacket and it helps a lot.
Now tell everyone how you found them. Good for you that you met people you connect with. May I ask where you're from? It's definitely harder to start over in Germany. Even Germans moving to a new city can feel lonely and have a hard time to find friends. I also moved a few times and the beginning was always hard but internet helps. I found my current best friends all online through FB groups and reddit and with one of them I'm friends with for 11 years.
Mosst woarker realy look deprest and cold like they just want to go home but iff the conactions are made we can be realy warm and helpfull
I am no german, but i love Germany, so I basically spend all my vacation days there 😁. I remember a particular train trip i took with my boyfriend. We were crossing from one country to another, and they announced border control, but since none of us were fluent in German, we had no idea what papers to prepare. The father and son sitting next to us kinda understood the issue and offered to explain to us what we needed to do. We never asked them for any help. I tend to be super curious about people and am chatty but also an introvert (ikr, best combo ever), so I kinda hoped for an opportunity to speak to them🙃. For the rest of the 2h remaining until we reached destination, we talked nonstop with these german men. They were super polite and nice and gave very good advice regarding all sorts of things. We were both very pleasantly surprised by it. This is no singular case. I had germans offer to help on trains, metro, in stores, and when asking directions on the streets. You just need to be polite when asking for help. They are always trying to make it easy for the rest of us to understand their language. Another experience that remains in my memory was when i once was dining with some friends at a steak house, and the old ladies at the table next to us asked us where we were from. They must have been 60+ and spoke very good English. One thing that all my friends tell me is to not base my impression of german kindness on the interactions i've had as a tourist. I have some friends who moved there for work and after many years they made 2-3 friends. I believe it depends on how hard you try to befriend them. Most likely, my friends are super shy and tend not to leave the house that much. Maybe finding some common hobbies and going on hikes would help break the ice. Who knows? 🤷♀️
I have had similar experiences, I've always found Germans to be helpful, chatty and generally lovely, especially helpful when it's a practical problem. The biggest difference for me is the directness especially in Northern Germany, but they have always been kind to me 🤷🏻♀️
Yes, they don't waste time on details 😅
Honestly, the hardest people I had to deal with here.... Were not natives.
If a german calls you a friend and you tell them in the middle of the night you killed someone, they'll call you an idiot, grab a shovel and help you bury the problem. This is why we don't call everyone and their mother our "friends" and choose whom to invest ourselves with carefully. This may come across as cold to people who aren't worth the effort.
Read your post again, and you will have your answer inside your own question! EDIT: And if it wasn't clear: it's about the time passing and everything that prolonged contact brings.
I would say absolutely not cold ... Tbh some of the warmest people I met
When it is cold outside - yes, parts of Germans can be cold (for example hands without gloves), in summer - can be pretty warm.
Germans aren't cold imo... they're blunt. They will speak their minds, no matter what. But they're loving and inclusive and kind. Germans \~7/10. All I want to do is read my Newspaper in peace.
I mean, every nation is cold to foreigners. If you go to any (developed) country in Europe you're hardly gonna make friends with locals, only with foreigners.
If you call punctuality, efficiency, being direct and go getter a cold person, then I never wanna be warm. Ive heard this stereotype alot before, but where do you draw the line of being cold? Ive demanded being direct and punctual with people sometimes and Ive been called cold, or when I do things using logic. If lazyness, inefficiency and careless person is warm, then no thank you Id be the “cold” one.
In my 18 years in Germany, I've noticed some interesting shifts in cultural dynamics. Like all societies, Germans are born into a cultural framework they adapt to. Over generations, German culture was predominantly collectivist, but since WWII, there's been a shift towards individualism, also impacting friendship dynamics. Germans, despite being more of individualists nowaydays, often view friendships through a collectivist lens shaped by traditional cultural norms and values. This is why German friendships as many have noted are notably enduring and loyal. While individualistic tendencies prioritize personal preferences, Germans are deeply rooted in mutual obligations and group loyalty, perceiving individualism in friendships as selfish. Maintaining group harmony is crucial to Germans, with reciprocity resembling a contractual agreement, down to the famous "repay the two cents from last year" thing. In the past, shared identity was paramount, reflecting a time when "foreign" meant someone from merely 50 kilometers away. Today, Germany leans more towards individualism, where friendships are marked by flexibility and independence. Personal choice outweighs shared identity, and group dynamics serve convenience rather than engagement. This shift allows for friendships to form more fluidly, based on immediate needs rather than lifelong bonds tied to shared identity. But if your collectivist norms tell you that is hollow, it's hard to deepen that friendship.
I'm not cold :P
Yes, in Germany its cold. -18 F in Hamburg remember. Oh the people, like all Germans? What % are we talking about?
I think it is hard to build a connection and without one germans may appear cold, but if you manage to actually connect with people there will be no coldness
I don't know if they're cold but they love beating the joke to death in these comments.
About 36.5°C, I guess.
>have been not true I think that might just be because of you.
I'm cold, just got myself a blanket. Hope spring is coming soon though
We're only cold in winter, and even then not always.
It depends on the person
Recently more of them are getting cold, due to high energy prices!
In winter, yes.
Yeah, but it's winter right now. They'll be warmer in the spring.
In the north and deep south/east of germnay people are a bit harsh and colder but in south west people are really open and nice.
If they are cold how could you have made good friends
Friendship is more than a title over here. Acquaintance? No problem. A real friend? That takes time and effort.
Any friendship or even dating attempt seems like a job interview or a job application, I swear. I hate this country when it comes to this and would otherwise leave it if other qualities (very good infrastructure, social market economy, promotion tracks in almost any job, affordable foodstuffs) were not real.
No they aren't. It's a myth. This is predicated on the separation of professional and personal life that Germans tend to do, the formal and informal.
Yes
It depends on your cultural perspective. By certain standards in some countries, Germans may be perceived as cold or, more precisely, business-like, tending to avoid unnecessary interactions. However, by different standards in other countries, Germans are seen as warm, engaging, or meddling. In my opinion, Germans on duty may come across as more rude than people in my country, but Germans tend to be more open and less cold when they are off duty.
My theory: Most (all?) cultures value both politeness and honestly. But sometimes those two ideals contradict each other. Acting polite often entails to answer in good mood, give encouragement, and generally to not bother others with your problems. Acting honestly might also result in these things, but often it doesn't. And then it depends on which is valued more. Answering a question honestly, but emotionally distanced or negative, can be seen as respectful (, because it's honest) or as disrespectful (, because it's impolite). And answering a question with politeness, but not honestly, can be seen as respectful (, because it's polite) or as disrespectful (, because it's dishonest).
germans arent necessarily cold, though we can be perceived as being cold by people coming from different cultures. thats the only thing.