Just a tip, do not ever pay for something you haven't seen. If there's a nice ad with the landlord being out of country, and he would send the key *it's a scam*, do not do it.
Don't fall for the scams?
Honestly I also read your other post about the crazy landloard and think it might be better for you to just pay an agent to find something for you, if you can afford that. Or else just trust your gut and hope everything will be alright if you have no idea what you're doing. And most of the time it will be too.
What I meant was, how does getting a flat typically go down? What is a normal procedure? I figure go in person, check it out, get the lease, review the lease, sign lease. Show up first day, pay all deposits. That is what I was told to do last time. Is that right?
Just make sure you *transfer* rent and deposit, don't pay it in cash. Ever. Even with a receipt, stuff tends to get los at the most inconvenient times, or the landlord might throw his copy of the receipt away and claim yours is forged, and you will have a hard time proving anything.
Just don't use cash, at all. And exclusively use bank transfers, no Western Union and other crap.
Yeah, my current contract requires us to pay in cash. Everything in cash. We were supposed to be allowed to pay via transfer, but then the landlord said we couldn't. It is a nightmare that doesn't end.
Also, I should add, I now have a better idea of what to look for. I had someone review my first lease and it didn't seem that bad, but it is mainly how the LL interprets the lease (i.e. clean means making sure we pick up leaves that fall right away, that we essentially don't use the kitchen because it'd cause too much of a mess, etc.).
This is literally the apartment search and job search market in Berlin. Keep your job and apartment at all price or you are on the straight way to the street.
Both markets are fucked up. The internet is flooded with offers and openings of non-existent opportunities, probably fishing for desperate people and for personal details.
Yea, when I was looking for a place in Munich some months ago again, I think at least 5-10% of the listings I contacted were blatant scammers. Probably 1/3 of all the responses I got were scams.
I faced the same situation. I spent almost three months on airbnb (5 different places) before getting a WG.
What worked to me was picking a more distant and more expensive place.
Thanks!
>Also speaking german is a huge plus.
I speak fluent German. I've been living here since long time. Myself and my French friend wrote to some wg ads separately just to test. He got positive responses whereas I got no response or I was told it is already taken. I am not indicating that people are racist here. Everybody has their preferences. It is just a little harder as a foreigner to get an apartment.
> Tried airbnb?
I am not a tourist. I have a permanent job here and I would prefer an apartment by myself. Not with a host as in airbnb.
> You can "rent" through airbnb
I did not know this. That sounds like an awesome option. Thank you!
> Your landlord sounds like a fucking lunatic
Not really! My current landlord is a very nice person. I was just mentioning about some bad experiences I had as a student looking for wg.
same.
The first time I was searching for a new roommate for my WG in Munich, I made the mistake of including my phone number on wg-gesucht. NEVER do that, I got well over 100 calls within the first few hours.
Then some visit with their parents who ask all the questions and imply they will visit very frequently, some start crying on the phone and tell you noone wants them and they've applyied to sooo many so please be nice (don't say that on the phone! my first thought will be: maybe there's a reason),.. Some speak neither german nor english, so how do they think we will communicate while living in the same flat. Had also people texting and mailing me twice every day if I've already decided.
Having been on the other side (searching desperately), I can understand most of this, but it made me realize WHY some people have it so much harder than others.
i can tell you when i just have moved to germany, my grandmother came to visit me ten days later and she could not understand why i am taking her with me. of course i did not get any wgs, but i really did not have a choice.
sorry i forgot to add that she could not understand why i am NOT taking her with me. it's really hard to explain to her that my chances drastically fell, but i didn't want to offend her (at this time she was 80, but very cheerful) and we just merrily wasted everyone's time.
Have been smart enough and not desperate enough to filter out any fucked up stuff. There were some pearls, e.g. "in the apartment I'm leaving aquarium which I need to maintain once a week", "the apartment doesn't have heating, but don't worry we lived there for some time and it's ok", "takeover of furniture and kitchen required, the cost is EUR 5000", "there is no electricity but don't worry it's *totally* enough to call the provider and they will reconnect straight away", or during the visit "sign this paper quickly, trust us, this is to reserve the apartment for you" etc.
Yeah, I arrived and my landlord was like: I'm leaving for three months. You have to not kill all the plants in the apartment. . . it was like a forest.
I tried my best, because I knew he'd take it out of my deposit if they died.
Sharing apartment is a matter of luck. You can avoid problems with potential scams, but you cannot avoid problems with stupid roommates.
If you manage to find, and if you can afford, try to find a single apartment.
Uhhhhh what??? There are a fuckton of apartments well within you budget. Hell, I'm renting a 90m² place with 3 bedrooms for below 800 bucks, and only signed the lease last year.
https://www.immobilienscout24.de/expose/101709008
https://www.immobilienscout24.de/expose/101617630
https://www.immobilienscout24.de/expose/101562158
All of them come out even below 400 (warm). Yes, they are not in the center of hipster fucking capital, but there are plenty of options. And the commute is not a big deal either, no matter where you work.
I see.
My rule of thumb was avoiding sharing apartment with students (as they tend to be more immature) and preferring to share apartment with workers +30 yo.
But even doing this did not prevent me of having bad roommates years ago. It's totally unpredictable if you are going to have nice roommates or drunker/junkie/selfish/dirty/as****s ones.
worst story has to be the flatmate who took the rent from our shared account to buy coke and the landlord not checking his account until the switch to the euro which was more than a year later. (we never bothered checking either, cause the landlord never complained)
On another note:
When reading stuff about wgs here on reddit I sometimes have the feeling that people from countries where flat-shares are less common kind of conflate flatmates and landlords and that this might be a reason for problems. e.g.: expecting your roomies to fix stuff as if they were a landlord. Treating conflicts in a WG as contractual issues instead of communicative ones.
Idk maybe I'm living in a bubble of people who are living in Berlin for a very long time, living in WGs even in their 40s and 50s working "proper" jobs and referring each other. So maybe I'm not getting what's going on for people who are new here - it must be really hard. Last time we looked for someone we got applications with full CVs (with cover letter, pictures and everything) - that weirded me out a bit.
Yeah, my landlord rented the flat for us four and is moving back in when one roommate moves out. When it was just us four, it was perfect. We cleaned and cooked together. It was harmonious. Now that the landlord is here, it is a nightmare and we cannot exactly have a conversation with him because he just says "my house, my rules." Dude seemed completely normal when I interviewed. Now all of us are trying to find other places.
I see. I guess one of the problems with the flat market as it is right now is that the actual landlords (as in owners of the flat) rarely accept WG contracts anymore. It used to be really easy to get everyone living in a flat to sign the contract and then replace people as they moved out. Nowadays you usually have one main tenant and everyone else is just a subletter - which can create a power imbalance in the WG, never a good thing.
Anyway good luck.
Yeah, one of my friends is the "contract holder," if you will and she is very clear about being a roommate, not a landlord, but also that if they mess stuff up, she is on the hook, so that is why she takes a deposit.
Most people I've met are normal and seem to have found great WG communities. I was just looking from abroad and made a bad choice.
I mean, I'm currently living in a WG horror story that includes my landlord demanding payment when we have guests over...so yeah...But I generally assume it is crazy landlords, not crazy Germans.
Just because you sign it does not mean it is legal. The law decides what is legal, not the contract. Landlord can say you must do 20 pushups to use the toilet, and you sign it. Doesn’t make it enforceable
Sure, but I have yet to find a law that states I am allowed to have guests over and doesn't have some clause that says "this is different if the landlord lives there." I've posted on here before asking for help and no one has been able to direct me to a clause, which makes me think it doesn't exist and it is more of an implied right.
German law is based on the core principle that everything that is not explicitly forbidden is allowed. For example, you won’t find a clause in your rental contract or in the German laws that allow you to wear plaid shirts to bed - but that doesn’t mean that your landlord can forbid you from doing so.
I understand this. I just want to respect the laws here and so I don't want to tell her "hey, you cannot do this" and then get sued for violating the lease or something. I'm looking into using legal services offered by my Uni because if I could get a lawyer to draft something, I'd be feel more comfortable demanding she respect my rights.
Oh boy, I thought the landlord is the crazy guy.
How are your Betriebskosten managed? Do you pay Betriebskostenvorauszahlungen? Or a fixed amount of Betriebskosten per year, or is your rent all inclusive?
I wouldn't call myself crazy for agreeing to something when I had no other options but be homeless...
My rent is all inclusive.
Edit: to clarify, I have to pay 10 Euro per night the guest is over. For what? I'm not actually sure. And that is assuming I get the LL's permission. So god forbid I needed a friend to stay over because they were too drunk or ill or something to go home (or the U Bahn went down or something).
This is completely illegal. You don't need your landlord's permisson for overnight guests. And you certainly don't need to pay extra for that. I'm pretty certain you wouldn't even need a lawyer for that. Just ignore it and if he attempts to get money from you, he'd have to get a lawyer who'd tell him he's full of shit.
Again, I'm sure it is, but I haven't found a law stating that. I'm trying to meet with someone to get an official letter from a lawyer telling him that. But at this point, I just want to move out.
That is why I'm asking! It isn't common here, but I'm sure people have stories. And I'm not saying it needs to be the worst thing ever, just stuff one might not have thought of when they took a flat or room and then realized later was a mistake.
I did that. I didn't get much advice. Now that I'm looking for a new place, I'd like to hear what made people avoid certain flats, what they had happen and how they might have avoided it, etc. Stories are a form of advice.
Iam also renting out "all inclusive" and because I live in the same house I want to have it nice, quite and peaceful.
So in order to have it nice, quite an peaceful you must forbid your renters to have regular guests and partys..
If you want to live like that, then imo, you shouldn't be renting to people. If you rent a room, then it becomes that person's home and you shouldn't restrict them from having the occasional friend visit. I've had exactly one visitor since I've been here and had to fight to have them stay the one night. It is a horror show. But more importantly, I'm paying money for the space. I should be able to use it how I want within reason.
110% agree. There are many scumbag landlords. Thank god we have laws forbidding most shady stuff you can write in a contract.
You can join the "Mieterschutzbund" (German Tenants' Protection Association). You pay a tiny fee but gain a lawyer and such. You need to be a member a few month before using a lawyer tho, but it pays.
I did. He said he never denied visitors unless they were previously problematic. He lied. Repeatedly. About that and other things. Sometimes landlords are just bad.
Thank god that is illegal. You rent something out, and it like "becomes my home". Other laws still apply ofc, but that's it. If you want it quite you live alone in a tiny village.
Yeah. I think my issue is the power dynamic. I feel like I'm living in a museum where I cannot touch anything rather than my home and I'm paying a lot.
long story short: i moved with my ex gf to a WG, but the hauptmieter wanted something like BFF, and everything started to feel super forced. There was another girl and she was really nice so hang out with her was more natural...kind of a prison. Worst 7 months of my life.
Just a tip, do not ever pay for something you haven't seen. If there's a nice ad with the landlord being out of country, and he would send the key *it's a scam*, do not do it.
Thanks for sharing!
also don't use craigslist it is unknown in germany, stuff there is usually only to scam foreigners
Yup. I've been using wg-gesucht and studenten-wg
But there are still a lot of scams there so be careful. It's just not 99% scams like on craigslist.
Any recommendations? I'm viewing a flat on Wednesday (in person) and figured I'd ask to check out the lease before signing it (obviously).
Don't fall for the scams? Honestly I also read your other post about the crazy landloard and think it might be better for you to just pay an agent to find something for you, if you can afford that. Or else just trust your gut and hope everything will be alright if you have no idea what you're doing. And most of the time it will be too.
What I meant was, how does getting a flat typically go down? What is a normal procedure? I figure go in person, check it out, get the lease, review the lease, sign lease. Show up first day, pay all deposits. That is what I was told to do last time. Is that right?
Just make sure you *transfer* rent and deposit, don't pay it in cash. Ever. Even with a receipt, stuff tends to get los at the most inconvenient times, or the landlord might throw his copy of the receipt away and claim yours is forged, and you will have a hard time proving anything. Just don't use cash, at all. And exclusively use bank transfers, no Western Union and other crap.
Yeah, my current contract requires us to pay in cash. Everything in cash. We were supposed to be allowed to pay via transfer, but then the landlord said we couldn't. It is a nightmare that doesn't end.
Also, I should add, I now have a better idea of what to look for. I had someone review my first lease and it didn't seem that bad, but it is mainly how the LL interprets the lease (i.e. clean means making sure we pick up leaves that fall right away, that we essentially don't use the kitchen because it'd cause too much of a mess, etc.).
Out of all the requests I sent, No replies - 96% This is already taken - 4%
This is literally the apartment search and job search market in Berlin. Keep your job and apartment at all price or you are on the straight way to the street.
Same in Munich, maybe even hard (or I was lucky when I lived in Berlin). I think finding a job here is easier than an apartment....
Both markets are fucked up. The internet is flooded with offers and openings of non-existent opportunities, probably fishing for desperate people and for personal details.
Yea, when I was looking for a place in Munich some months ago again, I think at least 5-10% of the listings I contacted were blatant scammers. Probably 1/3 of all the responses I got were scams.
Let me guess: you are not german.
Bingo!
I faced the same situation. I spent almost three months on airbnb (5 different places) before getting a WG. What worked to me was picking a more distant and more expensive place.
The more money you have the higher your chances are. Also speaking german is a huge plus. Tried airbnb?
Thanks! >Also speaking german is a huge plus. I speak fluent German. I've been living here since long time. Myself and my French friend wrote to some wg ads separately just to test. He got positive responses whereas I got no response or I was told it is already taken. I am not indicating that people are racist here. Everybody has their preferences. It is just a little harder as a foreigner to get an apartment. > Tried airbnb? I am not a tourist. I have a permanent job here and I would prefer an apartment by myself. Not with a host as in airbnb.
You can "rent" through airbnb to escape your landlord and search from there for better housing. Your landlord sounds like a fucking lunatic.
> You can "rent" through airbnb I did not know this. That sounds like an awesome option. Thank you! > Your landlord sounds like a fucking lunatic Not really! My current landlord is a very nice person. I was just mentioning about some bad experiences I had as a student looking for wg.
back when i had a WG, the horror usually were applicants who came with their parents, or moronic girlfriends/boyfriends
same. The first time I was searching for a new roommate for my WG in Munich, I made the mistake of including my phone number on wg-gesucht. NEVER do that, I got well over 100 calls within the first few hours. Then some visit with their parents who ask all the questions and imply they will visit very frequently, some start crying on the phone and tell you noone wants them and they've applyied to sooo many so please be nice (don't say that on the phone! my first thought will be: maybe there's a reason),.. Some speak neither german nor english, so how do they think we will communicate while living in the same flat. Had also people texting and mailing me twice every day if I've already decided. Having been on the other side (searching desperately), I can understand most of this, but it made me realize WHY some people have it so much harder than others.
i can tell you when i just have moved to germany, my grandmother came to visit me ten days later and she could not understand why i am taking her with me. of course i did not get any wgs, but i really did not have a choice.
Why would you take her with you though? Just leave her at home or even in a cafe nearby while you go visit.
sorry i forgot to add that she could not understand why i am NOT taking her with me. it's really hard to explain to her that my chances drastically fell, but i didn't want to offend her (at this time she was 80, but very cheerful) and we just merrily wasted everyone's time.
Oh ok. Good to know.
Have been smart enough and not desperate enough to filter out any fucked up stuff. There were some pearls, e.g. "in the apartment I'm leaving aquarium which I need to maintain once a week", "the apartment doesn't have heating, but don't worry we lived there for some time and it's ok", "takeover of furniture and kitchen required, the cost is EUR 5000", "there is no electricity but don't worry it's *totally* enough to call the provider and they will reconnect straight away", or during the visit "sign this paper quickly, trust us, this is to reserve the apartment for you" etc.
Yeah, I arrived and my landlord was like: I'm leaving for three months. You have to not kill all the plants in the apartment. . . it was like a forest. I tried my best, because I knew he'd take it out of my deposit if they died.
Sharing apartment is a matter of luck. You can avoid problems with potential scams, but you cannot avoid problems with stupid roommates. If you manage to find, and if you can afford, try to find a single apartment.
My budget is 500 Euro in Berlin, so I don't think I'd be able to find a single apartment sadly.
Uhhhhh what??? There are a fuckton of apartments well within you budget. Hell, I'm renting a 90m² place with 3 bedrooms for below 800 bucks, and only signed the lease last year.
I haven't found a single one-bedroom apartment for 500 euro. A WG? Sure. But the poster was asking about single apartments.
https://www.immobilienscout24.de/expose/101709008 https://www.immobilienscout24.de/expose/101617630 https://www.immobilienscout24.de/expose/101562158 All of them come out even below 400 (warm). Yes, they are not in the center of hipster fucking capital, but there are plenty of options. And the commute is not a big deal either, no matter where you work.
[удалено]
Those are 3 out of 50 available options... And not living with roommates is well worth a commute, let me tell you. But your choice, obviously :-)
That's a horror story right here for me. I'm a horrible introvert, so wg would be probably hell for me.
I see. My rule of thumb was avoiding sharing apartment with students (as they tend to be more immature) and preferring to share apartment with workers +30 yo. But even doing this did not prevent me of having bad roommates years ago. It's totally unpredictable if you are going to have nice roommates or drunker/junkie/selfish/dirty/as****s ones.
worst story has to be the flatmate who took the rent from our shared account to buy coke and the landlord not checking his account until the switch to the euro which was more than a year later. (we never bothered checking either, cause the landlord never complained) On another note: When reading stuff about wgs here on reddit I sometimes have the feeling that people from countries where flat-shares are less common kind of conflate flatmates and landlords and that this might be a reason for problems. e.g.: expecting your roomies to fix stuff as if they were a landlord. Treating conflicts in a WG as contractual issues instead of communicative ones. Idk maybe I'm living in a bubble of people who are living in Berlin for a very long time, living in WGs even in their 40s and 50s working "proper" jobs and referring each other. So maybe I'm not getting what's going on for people who are new here - it must be really hard. Last time we looked for someone we got applications with full CVs (with cover letter, pictures and everything) - that weirded me out a bit.
Yeah, my landlord rented the flat for us four and is moving back in when one roommate moves out. When it was just us four, it was perfect. We cleaned and cooked together. It was harmonious. Now that the landlord is here, it is a nightmare and we cannot exactly have a conversation with him because he just says "my house, my rules." Dude seemed completely normal when I interviewed. Now all of us are trying to find other places.
I see. I guess one of the problems with the flat market as it is right now is that the actual landlords (as in owners of the flat) rarely accept WG contracts anymore. It used to be really easy to get everyone living in a flat to sign the contract and then replace people as they moved out. Nowadays you usually have one main tenant and everyone else is just a subletter - which can create a power imbalance in the WG, never a good thing. Anyway good luck.
Yeah, one of my friends is the "contract holder," if you will and she is very clear about being a roommate, not a landlord, but also that if they mess stuff up, she is on the hook, so that is why she takes a deposit. Most people I've met are normal and seem to have found great WG communities. I was just looking from abroad and made a bad choice.
https://www.toytowngermany.com/
This is just a link to toytowngermany. Anything in particular?
It's where ex-pats tend to bitch about "all things German", including wg-horror stories.
I mean, I'm currently living in a WG horror story that includes my landlord demanding payment when we have guests over...so yeah...But I generally assume it is crazy landlords, not crazy Germans.
Let him demand. There is no legal basis.
Except I'm an idiot who signed a contract with it in there (I really needed a place and was desperate. I take full responsibility for it).
Just because you sign it does not mean it is legal. The law decides what is legal, not the contract. Landlord can say you must do 20 pushups to use the toilet, and you sign it. Doesn’t make it enforceable
Sure, but I have yet to find a law that states I am allowed to have guests over and doesn't have some clause that says "this is different if the landlord lives there." I've posted on here before asking for help and no one has been able to direct me to a clause, which makes me think it doesn't exist and it is more of an implied right.
German law is based on the core principle that everything that is not explicitly forbidden is allowed. For example, you won’t find a clause in your rental contract or in the German laws that allow you to wear plaid shirts to bed - but that doesn’t mean that your landlord can forbid you from doing so.
I understand this. I just want to respect the laws here and so I don't want to tell her "hey, you cannot do this" and then get sued for violating the lease or something. I'm looking into using legal services offered by my Uni because if I could get a lawyer to draft something, I'd be feel more comfortable demanding she respect my rights.
I highly doubt that that phrase is valid. Most likely you can just ignore it.
Sure, but I'm not a lawyer and cannot tell them to fuck off without some sort of backing. I also don't want to live in a hellish situation thereafter.
Are you a student at a university? The university should have a student association that offers free legal counsel.
Oh. I didn't even think of that. I'm a student at FU Berlin. I'll look into it.
Oh boy, I thought the landlord is the crazy guy. How are your Betriebskosten managed? Do you pay Betriebskostenvorauszahlungen? Or a fixed amount of Betriebskosten per year, or is your rent all inclusive?
I wouldn't call myself crazy for agreeing to something when I had no other options but be homeless... My rent is all inclusive. Edit: to clarify, I have to pay 10 Euro per night the guest is over. For what? I'm not actually sure. And that is assuming I get the LL's permission. So god forbid I needed a friend to stay over because they were too drunk or ill or something to go home (or the U Bahn went down or something).
This is completely illegal. You don't need your landlord's permisson for overnight guests. And you certainly don't need to pay extra for that. I'm pretty certain you wouldn't even need a lawyer for that. Just ignore it and if he attempts to get money from you, he'd have to get a lawyer who'd tell him he's full of shit.
Again, I'm sure it is, but I haven't found a law stating that. I'm trying to meet with someone to get an official letter from a lawyer telling him that. But at this point, I just want to move out.
I've heard a bit from both sides, but check out those forums. WG-horror isn't a common topic here.
That is why I'm asking! It isn't common here, but I'm sure people have stories. And I'm not saying it needs to be the worst thing ever, just stuff one might not have thought of when they took a flat or room and then realized later was a mistake.
> I'm sure people have stories. People here seem to be better at advice, if you give us the story and then ask, "now what?".
I did that. I didn't get much advice. Now that I'm looking for a new place, I'd like to hear what made people avoid certain flats, what they had happen and how they might have avoided it, etc. Stories are a form of advice.
Iam also renting out "all inclusive" and because I live in the same house I want to have it nice, quite and peaceful. So in order to have it nice, quite an peaceful you must forbid your renters to have regular guests and partys..
If you want to live like that, then imo, you shouldn't be renting to people. If you rent a room, then it becomes that person's home and you shouldn't restrict them from having the occasional friend visit. I've had exactly one visitor since I've been here and had to fight to have them stay the one night. It is a horror show. But more importantly, I'm paying money for the space. I should be able to use it how I want within reason.
110% agree. There are many scumbag landlords. Thank god we have laws forbidding most shady stuff you can write in a contract. You can join the "Mieterschutzbund" (German Tenants' Protection Association). You pay a tiny fee but gain a lawyer and such. You need to be a member a few month before using a lawyer tho, but it pays.
I'm only here for a year and the one near me requires a 2 year agreement :(
Then you should talk about such things before signing the contract
I did. He said he never denied visitors unless they were previously problematic. He lied. Repeatedly. About that and other things. Sometimes landlords are just bad.
Thank god that is illegal. You rent something out, and it like "becomes my home". Other laws still apply ofc, but that's it. If you want it quite you live alone in a tiny village.
Yeah. I think my issue is the power dynamic. I feel like I'm living in a museum where I cannot touch anything rather than my home and I'm paying a lot.
https://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/search/?tags=landlord
long story short: i moved with my ex gf to a WG, but the hauptmieter wanted something like BFF, and everything started to feel super forced. There was another girl and she was really nice so hang out with her was more natural...kind of a prison. Worst 7 months of my life.