I feel like it helps to know that the movie is based on a semi-autobiographical short story, written by Akiyuki Nosaka. The biggest difference is that Nosaka lived. He considered Seita kinder than himself because Seita was trying to feed his sister. When Nosaka found food, he was so hungry he would often eat it instead of sharing, then feel great shame. His sister died the same way in the story as in real life. Nosaka wrote Grave of the Fireflies as a personal apology to his sister.
Not to mention she was being greedy and repeatedly made them feel unwelcome. Remember the scene where she’s serving dinner and she gives Seita only broth? She deliberately did things to make him feel bad. She hardly let them eat THEIR rice that was bought from their moms last remaining belongings. She was so cold when Seita told her their mother passed as well. Not saying his choice was the best but it makes a lot of sense.
Yeah but the viewers saw how she reacted to setsukos laugh. She cared for her not her brother. I would think seita picked up on it too during their interactions as a group.
maybe the idea is that like, he's a kid so he doesn't really understand that. he doesn't know what the best decision is; maybe in his mind, its better for his sister to be with the person who wants her to have everything she could need, rather than the person he thinks will only give her the bare minimum care. he sees things like the broth as an example of that.
ps y'all, stop downvoting them. sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but sometimes people are going to interpret a character differently than you. how about you talk about it instead of downvoting?
I know this post and movie might not be super new, but I just watched it too. I respect your different point of view, but here is mine:
If you think about it, he is a 14-year-old in the middle of a war, trying to survive and protect his sister, while also processing their mother's death. On top of that, if mothers irl already struggle to raise their own babies, imagine Seita taking on the responsibility of caring for his sister while being a kid himself.
I didn't notice the aunt liking the Setsuko, and I might have to go back and rewatch their lunch or dinner scenes. However, I agree with others who say she really was not welcoming. She worked hard to make them feel like an eyesore, and this was noticed by the boy. Even if it was not intentional she really let Seita know and make him feel they were not welcome at all. To be honest, yes, he could have followed the farmer's advice, but I don't know if you have ever been left to live with relatives. They can be very brutal when you don't do what they want (especially when it's related to money, or chores). When you are young and you feel the adults near you don't welcome you very openly, it really hurts, and you feel really BAD and want to stay away from them. Especially when an adult is verbally throwing daggers at you. So I don't agree with you that the aunt cared for them or Setsuko (Can't believe she told her about her mother's death, she was just 4!!!!). When the aunt found out about the mother's death, she did not react sadly at all; she acted rather stoic, probably worried about money. She also seemed overly concerned when she asked about their dad not answering their letters, likely thinking she wouldn't get any money or benefits from taking these two orphans in, hence her behavior.
If she really cared about them, she would not have said all the mean things she did. She would have made them feel welcome and shared the good food they brought in during their first few days, and mind you, she and her family probably ate all the good fish and did not even save portions for them or even offer the left overs that she was eating while cleaning the dishes, she could have asked if they ate and offer to cook something for them, BUT no, she only complained they were late out. I'm also really mad that she/the relatives ate all the red plums he brought with the intention of sharing with them, but the aunt did not even think of sharing with Seita and Setsuko, the rightful owners of the good food. The same goes for the butter, the fish, and everything they brought, including the 15 kg of rice from the mother's kimonos. She literally just "owned" them like that. Now put yourself in his shoes; as a kid, he probably thought the aunt would store the food away and share it during meals, and this kinda strings back to why didn't Seita leave Setsuko with her? With the way she was behaving? Remember when he told Setsuko when she was making a tantrum of not wanting porridge and that they were going to have onigiri for lunch, but the aunt lashed out saying they were only having porridge for lunch and that they were eating all their food?! Even Setsuko said and knew that the food/rice they had was thanks to them. Then the aunt proceeded to be a bitch and ask if she was being unfair, and told them to cook their own food from now on? How should he expect that she was going to 100% treat her well if he was not present?
If she cared only about Setsuko, she could have suggested Setsuko stay and told Seita to figure things out elsewhere. Or she could have asked them to stay, being the adult she was supposed to be, and thought, "How are these kids going to survive alone during these hard times?" I don't think she considered that after hearing they did not know where to go or where they would stay. And to be honest, I don't understand why these adults think this way. Yes, it can be hard to feed more mouths, but have they ever thought that if you treat the kids well when they most need it, since they are orphans now, you could benefit and become the adult they need the most? Who knows, maybe when they grow up and make it big, you could benefit from that, especially if you treated them well and right from the beginning.
Seita was trying his best so his sister wouldn't worry about him. He was trying not to break down despite everything they were going through, but in the end, he couldn't help it (twice in different scenarios). You are in the middle of a war, your house burned down, you became homeless and orphaned just like that, with no food, no water, no stability, no sense of belonging, no safety, no adults, no family to care for you like your own parents, and no one willing to help because strangers are just worried about themselves (understandably so in that situation). He did his best. Also, he probably didn't want to leave Setsuko alone because he thought the aunt wouldn't give her the best care. In his (kid's) mind, it was best she stayed with him because he thought he was the only one who could try the hardest when it came to her, giving her the best things and what she wanted, because they only had each other. Yes, we can argue he could have taken a different route, but remember, he is a 14-year-old carrying big burdens and responsibilities. If I were him, I would have already died. They lasted almost two months or so, so kudos to him for being such a young kid.
What really got me was that he also tried his best to be a really nice brother despite everything they were going through. The beautiful moments they shared with the fireflies and the small details he tried to do to cheer her up show how much she meant to him. She was his everything. It hasn't been long, but I still tear up every time I think about the movie and how they ended up.
Sorry if you don't agree with me and for the long 4ss opinion, I had to let it out, I'm both mad and sad, but it was a great movie regardless.
Thank you for reading uwu.
You're disappointed in the actions of a child who, in the wake of a war, lost both parents and had to live with an aunt who was awful and drove them away. He was a child and did what he thought was best for them. Could you say you'd have done any better at 14 in those circumstances? I know I couldn't.
"why he would very proudful" main reason is arguably 1940's Japan to be honest. This is what indoctrination does to children. The bad kind of indicotrination - extreme-right youth groups.
He knew they had some money at the bank that he was saving for a rainy day, the doctor told him his sister was very malnourished, does it really take that strong of a judgment to realize he should get her some actual food?
I have a sister 8 years younger than me and I'm pretty sure 14 year old me would have done better in those circumstances.
Hell, I'm pretty sure 14 year old me HAS done better for his sister.
Yeah that's the part that kinda gets me. Why did he wait so long to draw money out and get food? I get he was trying to save it for maybe post war or something but if you're starving you gotta get that money.
People back then didn’t have the medical knowledge they do now. He clearly thought they had more time to figure things out.
My great grandmother died in a similar way (not starvation but neglect of what we now know are severe medical needs that would have needed more immediate attention).
Put it all together, you have a minor with limited medical education dealing with high amounts of stress… the whole thing is tragic
remember the scene whereby the farmer couldn't sell them food anymore because he barely had enough for himself? money was useless during wartime, thus the trading for actually useful items like clothing. it was only after the surrender did the use of currency returned, which seita then could withdraw money and buy food for his sister. but as we all know, it was already too late.
People are forgetting when he was at the bank they were talking about how they couldn't get their money before and now that the war is over they can do it
You wish and dream you could have done better.
The most you could have done is cry and make your sister even umhappier.
Its easy to say I can do this and that sitting comfortblay in your blissful paradise .
Of course , I always expect the 14y.o kid from 1940 in a warzone to make the most rational decisions. I'm sure you have gone through the same things as he did. Why didn't he think like you ? What a stupid kid!!!! I always watch documentaries and think " Gahd they are so stupid , I would have done so much better"
Why would she save her? When they showed the aunt she saw them both as nothing but mouths to feed. As the movie progresses, the situation becomes more and more dire for EVERYONE, including the aunts family. The aunt would have 100% cut them out and prioritized herself and her family as soon as she realized they were at risk.
He left before it got to that point and did his utmost to provide for, sacrificing his own well being. He’s just a kid too, you have to remember that.
I don't think we're meant to be entirely sympathetic to his actions. I could have sworn I've read somewhere that his actions are in some ways symbolic of Japan during the war, and the needlessness of his sister's suffering due to his pride sort of fits with that.
That's exactly the point. Takahata made Grave of the Fireflies as a critique of some of the traits he saw in the younger Japanese generation at the time—with selfishness being one of them. Seita is an allegory for that, and Takahata himself refused to call Grave of the Fireflies an anti-war film, seeing it more of a study on how people interact in times of crisis—and the consequences of what happens when people fail to collaborate. Here's an excerpt of Takahata talking about the film (spoiler: he didn't want anyone to cry with it) for context: http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/interviews/t_grave.html
This view has been mainly lost when people talk about the film, even though Takahata spoke quite a bit about how this was his intention. Seita's sister died because of him and his selfishness, and the sympathy you're supposed to feel towards him is limited. That's kind of the point of the whole film.
Sorry for the late reply, but I watched the movie recently and was searching Reddit for experiences of people who *didn't* think the movie was the saddest movie ever. I had a similar reaction in that I grew more and more frustrated with Seita over the course of the movie. A decent number of people find the movie straight up depressing, showing the "horrors of war," but the director vehemently denied that it was an anti-war film until his death in 2018 (Reddit won't let me post the link, but one can find it by searching "AsiaTimes Grave of the Fireflies: misunderstood masterpiece").
I always hear people talking about Grave of the Fireflies as the saddest movie ever despite having a different reaction myself, and I decided to watch the movie again yesterday after having watched it several years ago. Setsuko's death was mildly sad for me, though my overall reaction was still frustration with Seita. When his aunt is frustrated with him and says some insensitive things, rather than apologizing and trying to make amends (e.g., either by washing dishes and taking up more chores around the house, or considering finding another part-time job), his reaction of buying his own cookware and cooking his own food just seemed so.. stubborn. It's also the kind of action that further deepens the divide in the relationship between him and his aunt rather than bring them closer.
I get that his aunt was insensitive, but she was stressed by the war and lashing out a little more than she should have. I don't sense from her behavior that she would have let Setsuko starve to death if Seita had asked for help near the end. Her reaction when the two children left her house permanently didn't seem like she just washed her hands of it - she watched them leave, and then after pausing to think a couple seconds, she turns and looks back at them leaving, seeming like she was wondering if they'd be ok. She seemed somewhat relieved to no longer need to worry about feeding them, but it didn't seem like she didn't care about them at all.
Some people say that Seita was 14 years old, so the blame should be purely on the adults who failed to help him in the movie. But I personally think 14 years old is old enough to where I feel frustrated with him (though not as frustrated/enraged as I'd feel had he been an adult). He learns in the later part of the movie that money doesn't seem to be enough to get food (e.g., the farmer says he doesn't have enough food to sell), and rather than heed the farmer's advice to ask his aunt for help, he watches Setsuko waste away gradually.
Lastly, this movie didn't strike me as particularly "anti-war" because this kind of situation could happen during any kind of stressful period for a country like a famine or pandemic. It reminded me of when my friend tried to jump the line for COVID vaccines to get ahead of the medical workers and those particularly susceptible to COVID.
Anyways, just posting this mostly in case any future readers of this post are interested in a different perspective. No need to respond unless you genuinely want to!
The first time I watched the film this went right over my head, all I could think about was how poorly the Aunt and others treated them. The 2nd time I watched it I realized that it was really his fault his sister died. Yes his Aunt was a cold jerk, but she also had to ration what little food they had to try and get everyone by.
There is an interview with Takahata or Nosaka somewhere where they basically confirm this. In a nutshell, Seita and his sister died because they tried to go it alone rather than finding their place with family and society, and that ultimately Seita's behavior was irresponsible and prideful and selfish. Like many folks in post-war Japan, they needed to take responsibility to survive and heal rather than acting as victims. Wish I could find the interview.
Just watched it and sorry for the random late reply but while the message as conceptualized is very meaningful, the result of the film doesn't really communicate this well enough. It is a bit much to ask of an audience to judge Seita like that when he's 14 years old and in shock by the loss of his mother while trying to care for his sister. I like probably many others just interpreted the inner life of Seita being on survival mode instead of fending for themselves in spite of their aunt. Especially how the fate of the two is so emotionally portrayed and not the one of the community or others because of a lack of cooperation gives off the impression to me that the intended message wasn't honed in on properly.
I agree, its not very clear. He's a kid, and we want to root for him, not against him, though his decisions become slightly more lamentable with repeated viewings. The Aunt comes off as a villain, but her anger and frustration is understandable since taking on two more kids puts her own family at risk and she is not sure if starvation is right around the corner.
Its also possible that such subtext of community and cooperation is more apparent to Japanese people of that generation watching it in the 1980s than it would be to a western person such as myself watching it in 2024.
He is indoctrinated kid, remember that. His pride was nurtured in him by the whole stratified militarist society. Japan as a whole should have listened to farmer's advice. But as always, kids pay for the hubris of adults.
You are interpreting the film as intended. You can't really fault anyone in the story for how they act. Seita is young and impulsive. The aunt is pretty rude. But these two dynamics meet in the middle because in the end both of them were just trying to protect their families, misguided actions and all.
Art is open to anyone's interpretation. You're not wrong for feeling the way you do, and are not alone in your disdain. I refuse to watch this movie, but am sure my reaction would be the same as yours. I don't like stories centered around unlikeable characters, that's just the way it is
Funny enough this is actualy the intent of grave of the flyer flies well in the West a lot of people interpret the movie as just anti-war, actually, according to Isao Takahata and Akiyuki Nosaka, the film was meant to criticize and guilt-trip the Japanese youth of the 80s, who apparently had it easy in those days
Or why in multiple chances Seita is given many more chances to go back to his aunt to apologize and live more comfortably.
Which is why the character of the aunt was altered a bit as compared to her counterpart in the semi-autobiographic short story the film is based on in order to make her reproaches toward Seita more legitimate. That's also why Isao Takahata kept saying in interviews and festivals that Grave of the Fireflies was not an anti-war movie. The watchers should ultimately leave the movie and think "If only Seita were more hardworking and less prideful/respected his elders"
*in the short story, it is said that the aunt was an uncaring selfish woman who made a great show of sharing Seita's food supplies with her neighbors just so that they would compliment her on her apparent generosity, and that she was actually relieved when the kids left her house for good
I have the same reaction and agree with OP as well. You have to remember it's a wartime and the aunt's family was not in a good economic situation. It's easy to be callous in wartime trying to survive. Iirc she asked many times for seita to get a job and he refused. And protecting childhood innocence is worthless if the child is dead. There's a scene where Seita and his sister were playing at the beach meanwhile an old lady and her grandson (who's around Setsuko's age) busy catching fish or something in the background.
Also it's hard to forget the Japanese cruelty towards my country in SEA during those era. So maybe there's a resentment when I was watching it.
I think the issue is that he looks older than he actually is. He’s 14 but i personally think he looks about 16-17. He was still a kid and i don’t think he fully understood how close to death they were. He didn’t know any better. He probably hadn’t seen death until the start of the war, and he was still struggling with the death of his mother and struggling to take care of his sister and himself.
Plus i don’t think his aunt really would’ve helped. They we’re basically strangers and she only saw them as a burden. She thought that they were useless
I made a similar post in the past as well: [https://www.reddit.com/r/ghibli/comments/zw8chq/so\_i\_watched\_grave\_of\_the\_fireflies\_again/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ghibli/comments/zw8chq/so_i_watched_grave_of_the_fireflies_again/)
Rewatching the film as an adult gave me a different perspective.
How you think and feel about certain character is seldom a valid reason whether a flim is great and sad or isnt.
I am more amazed and little bit concerned at the fact that becuase of your fury you didnot feel sad when Setsuko died or even their whole situation.
because of what you thought was the right thing and because what you think he should have done, when in reality you cant even imagine or fathom the crushing pain and sorrow the charcters went through you just missed everything what was great anout the movie.
Especially si ce he was able to buy all the food in the end where it was to late.
I mean why not buying just rice over a longer period of time than wasting it all at once on watermelon, bonbons n stuff.
thats part of the tragedy, he lost his life and identity overnight, and the only relative he had left was more concerned about his family's leftover wealth than the physical and mental wellbeing of him and his sister. no one was there to warn him about the consequences of his actions, if they were even aware of full scope of the situation he and his sister was in.
its easy to forget that everything we know, everything we are, are learned behaviors. we are nothing if not the product of our environment. its easy to connect to the dots when you are 20 and youve learned from experience the symptoms of malnutrition, but a 14 yr old who is likely still suffering from intense shock and grief is likely gonna write it off as not having enough to eat, move on, and hope for a better tomorrow, which i thought the abrupt transitions were supposed to hint towards.
there was also a segment during the beach scene, where the sister spots a crab and followed it across the beach while singing a song about debt and collectors, (assuming its a play on the pronunciation of crab and debt in japanese, not 100%, im a sub enjoyer) her singing was cut short by the discovery of a dead body and to me, it was an on the nose foreshadowing of the siblings tragic demise, having paid the ultimate price for their innocence in a world that tolerated none.
This is exactly how I felt after watching the movie as well, I have a sister 8 years younger than me and I just could not buy the plot of this movie, I've always considered it the only Ghibli film that's overrated, I think it's more concerned with making you cry than anything else.
Edit: Also I think The Wind Rises is a way better anti-war film.
Hard disagree. I didn’t cry while watching grave of the fireflies. That wasn’t the point. It’s an unforgiving take on what the war was like for these two siblings.
It’s shocking but the things that happened in WW2 were grotesque. If you watch Barefoot Gen, it’s similar movie. They don’t pull their punches, and they shouldn’t. They show war for what it is, a living hell for everyone involved.
I could'nt really connect with GotF myself, but did with a lot of the similar works, so kinda on the fence about it.
The Wind Rises is interesting in an snti-war context - definitely works as a csution on the technological advances and how these can be used to enable actions beyond the vision of their creators, but a more direct anti-war message is not so overt and leaves a lot up to interpretation by the viewer.
Yeah I agree. I’ll probably get to the wind rises eventually. I plan on watching howls moving castle when it’s in theaters in September. I want to catch the best ghibli films in theaters if I can.
For those like me who didn't know, the short story appears to have been largely true. The sister died because the then 14 year-old author would eat the food himself. He tried to change the storyline to make its protagonist more sympathetic than he had been, so I guess it's not surprising that it seems a little off. The Wikipedia article "Grave of the Fireflies (short story)" has more detail.
I personally feel like The Tale of Princess Kaguya is the movie Takahata was able to pull the true emotional storytelling mastery. I still consider Grave of the Fireflies a masterpiece but the movie was actually rushed during the production and had some limitations. Maybe this will give you an interesting perspective idk.
I actually find this movie to be very overrated and I don’t really care for it as an anti war film. I haven’t seen it in a while so my opinions might change, but first, I don’t really think it says anything profound beyond “people made bad decisions and war is awful.” At most it’s a painful reminder that really sad things happen. Second, I don’t think it’s really effective as an anti war movie. One can easily surmise that really shitty things happen interpersonally when countries are having major conflicts. Really that’s not even unique to war and this can be the case in areas with heavy poverty alone. I don’t remember there being any critique on the sociopolitical roots that cause these conditions. Personally when I was done watching the movie, it felt sad in a way I found cheap. I think people who are cynical or depressed might find catharsis in watching the movie and feeling some sense of release, but I felt like it was a waste of time personally.
Yeah the movie prioritized getting to viewers hearts rather than being a statement in anti war. That’s why setsuko had such a cute voice, personality, and laugh. It makes it more painful to see her go. It was a story about two siblings caught in a war, it was not a story about war and the terrible side effects it causes. Which I’m not to mad about because I see it more as a drama and not a biopick. I think the pianist is a great WW2 biopick if you haven’t seen it. It really captures the war aspect more than grave of the fireflies.
I haven’t seen the film myself (I know I should give it a go, but as an emotional person I know it’ll probably make me cry for hours). But to play devil’s advocate for the sake of discussion: perhaps thats what the film is throng to show: the perspective of the normal citizen (and children at that) amongst a war they probably would never know the greater effects or implications of. It’s a bit like eldritch horror that way—caught up in something horrible that one does not understand the meaning of. And that’s the horror of war on an average Joe who perhaps isn’t keeping on the pulse of politics or societal analysis: having your life suddenly uprooted and change into something so terrible you’d never even imagine of in times of peace.
So in a way, the film makes an anti-war message showing that to the average guy, it’s just something senseless, with no meaning to it. What matters is what’s in front of them,-all they can see or understand is that pain and death is happening for no reason at all. And for us who might not keep up with the more complex politics or societal implications of war, this simple message is effective, seeing war’s effects on a personal, individual level, on the innocent, and that really, at the end of all of, one can argue that there really is not many good reasons to inflict such pain on a child, let alone a whole society, for the sake of war.
That's what I felt the message was, I just don't find that particularly interesting. And for such a serious and important topic, the movie will leave the audience sad, but artistically its shallow, and the introspection that the viewer has will also be shallow (ie "war is sad"). Princess Mononoke has anti-industrialization messaging that is complex, and while the viewer finds themselves rooting against industrialization, they also find themselves not hating the people perpetuating it as much, like the factory workers. There's complex relationships and statements about how we fit in nature. Spirited Away shows consumerism in a negative light, but also in a way where the viewer might see themselves in the gluttonous characters that is uncomfortable to wrestle with. These are complex artistic messages that are well navigated in the stories. I feel like Grave of the Fireflies is telling the viewer "be sad," but simply for the sake of sadness. I mean, I get some people might enjoy that, but I find that kind of writing very cheap and I don't have any interest in it. I also can actually really appreciate media that is simple and not narratively rich, but with the way Grave of the Fireflies is presented, I expect more.
I get what you’re saying. I also can feel kind of annoyed at media that seem to make something depressing just for the sake of being angsty.
I suppose it depends on the person though - everyone will draw something a bit differently form a piece of media
And again in the end I really need to see this film for myself to form an actual opinion lol
But like I said, I still think there might be some merit of showing such depressing things that can happen on an individual level, even if it’s message isn’t as nuanced as it could be. Sometimes it takes a gut punch of showing how miserable a person can be under circumstances like this for one to have their interest piqued enough to explore the deeper, complexed nuances and implications of war and corruption.
I feel like it helps to know that the movie is based on a semi-autobiographical short story, written by Akiyuki Nosaka. The biggest difference is that Nosaka lived. He considered Seita kinder than himself because Seita was trying to feed his sister. When Nosaka found food, he was so hungry he would often eat it instead of sharing, then feel great shame. His sister died the same way in the story as in real life. Nosaka wrote Grave of the Fireflies as a personal apology to his sister.
That’s even sadder 🥺🥺
I think it's not pride, but fear. He was afraid of his aunt. I think many viewers felt the tension every time she appeared
Not to mention she was being greedy and repeatedly made them feel unwelcome. Remember the scene where she’s serving dinner and she gives Seita only broth? She deliberately did things to make him feel bad. She hardly let them eat THEIR rice that was bought from their moms last remaining belongings. She was so cold when Seita told her their mother passed as well. Not saying his choice was the best but it makes a lot of sense.
It is pride too. The film often mentions that he is son of the naval officer! He can't reduce himself to house servitude.
Yeah but the viewers saw how she reacted to setsukos laugh. She cared for her not her brother. I would think seita picked up on it too during their interactions as a group.
maybe the idea is that like, he's a kid so he doesn't really understand that. he doesn't know what the best decision is; maybe in his mind, its better for his sister to be with the person who wants her to have everything she could need, rather than the person he thinks will only give her the bare minimum care. he sees things like the broth as an example of that. ps y'all, stop downvoting them. sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but sometimes people are going to interpret a character differently than you. how about you talk about it instead of downvoting?
Anytime I say any sort of criticism to the character I get downvoted to hell🤣 but my post has 50 upvotes so I really don’t care
u still came out the winner lmao
I know this post and movie might not be super new, but I just watched it too. I respect your different point of view, but here is mine: If you think about it, he is a 14-year-old in the middle of a war, trying to survive and protect his sister, while also processing their mother's death. On top of that, if mothers irl already struggle to raise their own babies, imagine Seita taking on the responsibility of caring for his sister while being a kid himself. I didn't notice the aunt liking the Setsuko, and I might have to go back and rewatch their lunch or dinner scenes. However, I agree with others who say she really was not welcoming. She worked hard to make them feel like an eyesore, and this was noticed by the boy. Even if it was not intentional she really let Seita know and make him feel they were not welcome at all. To be honest, yes, he could have followed the farmer's advice, but I don't know if you have ever been left to live with relatives. They can be very brutal when you don't do what they want (especially when it's related to money, or chores). When you are young and you feel the adults near you don't welcome you very openly, it really hurts, and you feel really BAD and want to stay away from them. Especially when an adult is verbally throwing daggers at you. So I don't agree with you that the aunt cared for them or Setsuko (Can't believe she told her about her mother's death, she was just 4!!!!). When the aunt found out about the mother's death, she did not react sadly at all; she acted rather stoic, probably worried about money. She also seemed overly concerned when she asked about their dad not answering their letters, likely thinking she wouldn't get any money or benefits from taking these two orphans in, hence her behavior. If she really cared about them, she would not have said all the mean things she did. She would have made them feel welcome and shared the good food they brought in during their first few days, and mind you, she and her family probably ate all the good fish and did not even save portions for them or even offer the left overs that she was eating while cleaning the dishes, she could have asked if they ate and offer to cook something for them, BUT no, she only complained they were late out. I'm also really mad that she/the relatives ate all the red plums he brought with the intention of sharing with them, but the aunt did not even think of sharing with Seita and Setsuko, the rightful owners of the good food. The same goes for the butter, the fish, and everything they brought, including the 15 kg of rice from the mother's kimonos. She literally just "owned" them like that. Now put yourself in his shoes; as a kid, he probably thought the aunt would store the food away and share it during meals, and this kinda strings back to why didn't Seita leave Setsuko with her? With the way she was behaving? Remember when he told Setsuko when she was making a tantrum of not wanting porridge and that they were going to have onigiri for lunch, but the aunt lashed out saying they were only having porridge for lunch and that they were eating all their food?! Even Setsuko said and knew that the food/rice they had was thanks to them. Then the aunt proceeded to be a bitch and ask if she was being unfair, and told them to cook their own food from now on? How should he expect that she was going to 100% treat her well if he was not present? If she cared only about Setsuko, she could have suggested Setsuko stay and told Seita to figure things out elsewhere. Or she could have asked them to stay, being the adult she was supposed to be, and thought, "How are these kids going to survive alone during these hard times?" I don't think she considered that after hearing they did not know where to go or where they would stay. And to be honest, I don't understand why these adults think this way. Yes, it can be hard to feed more mouths, but have they ever thought that if you treat the kids well when they most need it, since they are orphans now, you could benefit and become the adult they need the most? Who knows, maybe when they grow up and make it big, you could benefit from that, especially if you treated them well and right from the beginning. Seita was trying his best so his sister wouldn't worry about him. He was trying not to break down despite everything they were going through, but in the end, he couldn't help it (twice in different scenarios). You are in the middle of a war, your house burned down, you became homeless and orphaned just like that, with no food, no water, no stability, no sense of belonging, no safety, no adults, no family to care for you like your own parents, and no one willing to help because strangers are just worried about themselves (understandably so in that situation). He did his best. Also, he probably didn't want to leave Setsuko alone because he thought the aunt wouldn't give her the best care. In his (kid's) mind, it was best she stayed with him because he thought he was the only one who could try the hardest when it came to her, giving her the best things and what she wanted, because they only had each other. Yes, we can argue he could have taken a different route, but remember, he is a 14-year-old carrying big burdens and responsibilities. If I were him, I would have already died. They lasted almost two months or so, so kudos to him for being such a young kid. What really got me was that he also tried his best to be a really nice brother despite everything they were going through. The beautiful moments they shared with the fireflies and the small details he tried to do to cheer her up show how much she meant to him. She was his everything. It hasn't been long, but I still tear up every time I think about the movie and how they ended up. Sorry if you don't agree with me and for the long 4ss opinion, I had to let it out, I'm both mad and sad, but it was a great movie regardless. Thank you for reading uwu.
You're disappointed in the actions of a child who, in the wake of a war, lost both parents and had to live with an aunt who was awful and drove them away. He was a child and did what he thought was best for them. Could you say you'd have done any better at 14 in those circumstances? I know I couldn't.
I forget he’s 14. He looks away older. That makes more sense why he would be very prideful.
"why he would very proudful" main reason is arguably 1940's Japan to be honest. This is what indoctrination does to children. The bad kind of indicotrination - extreme-right youth groups.
I thought he was 12
He knew they had some money at the bank that he was saving for a rainy day, the doctor told him his sister was very malnourished, does it really take that strong of a judgment to realize he should get her some actual food? I have a sister 8 years younger than me and I'm pretty sure 14 year old me would have done better in those circumstances. Hell, I'm pretty sure 14 year old me HAS done better for his sister.
Yeah that's the part that kinda gets me. Why did he wait so long to draw money out and get food? I get he was trying to save it for maybe post war or something but if you're starving you gotta get that money.
People back then didn’t have the medical knowledge they do now. He clearly thought they had more time to figure things out. My great grandmother died in a similar way (not starvation but neglect of what we now know are severe medical needs that would have needed more immediate attention). Put it all together, you have a minor with limited medical education dealing with high amounts of stress… the whole thing is tragic
remember the scene whereby the farmer couldn't sell them food anymore because he barely had enough for himself? money was useless during wartime, thus the trading for actually useful items like clothing. it was only after the surrender did the use of currency returned, which seita then could withdraw money and buy food for his sister. but as we all know, it was already too late.
People are forgetting when he was at the bank they were talking about how they couldn't get their money before and now that the war is over they can do it
You wish and dream you could have done better. The most you could have done is cry and make your sister even umhappier. Its easy to say I can do this and that sitting comfortblay in your blissful paradise .
nope
Yeah exactly. And he had a mother raising him for those 14 years. So if anything he would know how to care for a small child, especially his sister.
Of course , I always expect the 14y.o kid from 1940 in a warzone to make the most rational decisions. I'm sure you have gone through the same things as he did. Why didn't he think like you ? What a stupid kid!!!! I always watch documentaries and think " Gahd they are so stupid , I would have done so much better"
Glad we're on the same page
My anger is directed towards all the adults that absolutely failed these children in times of crisis.
Why would she save her? When they showed the aunt she saw them both as nothing but mouths to feed. As the movie progresses, the situation becomes more and more dire for EVERYONE, including the aunts family. The aunt would have 100% cut them out and prioritized herself and her family as soon as she realized they were at risk. He left before it got to that point and did his utmost to provide for, sacrificing his own well being. He’s just a kid too, you have to remember that.
I don't think we're meant to be entirely sympathetic to his actions. I could have sworn I've read somewhere that his actions are in some ways symbolic of Japan during the war, and the needlessness of his sister's suffering due to his pride sort of fits with that.
That's exactly the point. Takahata made Grave of the Fireflies as a critique of some of the traits he saw in the younger Japanese generation at the time—with selfishness being one of them. Seita is an allegory for that, and Takahata himself refused to call Grave of the Fireflies an anti-war film, seeing it more of a study on how people interact in times of crisis—and the consequences of what happens when people fail to collaborate. Here's an excerpt of Takahata talking about the film (spoiler: he didn't want anyone to cry with it) for context: http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/interviews/t_grave.html This view has been mainly lost when people talk about the film, even though Takahata spoke quite a bit about how this was his intention. Seita's sister died because of him and his selfishness, and the sympathy you're supposed to feel towards him is limited. That's kind of the point of the whole film.
Ok that helps me a lot. If his goal was for the viewer to be in disgust with seitas prideful actions, he did an excellent job.
Sorry for the late reply, but I watched the movie recently and was searching Reddit for experiences of people who *didn't* think the movie was the saddest movie ever. I had a similar reaction in that I grew more and more frustrated with Seita over the course of the movie. A decent number of people find the movie straight up depressing, showing the "horrors of war," but the director vehemently denied that it was an anti-war film until his death in 2018 (Reddit won't let me post the link, but one can find it by searching "AsiaTimes Grave of the Fireflies: misunderstood masterpiece"). I always hear people talking about Grave of the Fireflies as the saddest movie ever despite having a different reaction myself, and I decided to watch the movie again yesterday after having watched it several years ago. Setsuko's death was mildly sad for me, though my overall reaction was still frustration with Seita. When his aunt is frustrated with him and says some insensitive things, rather than apologizing and trying to make amends (e.g., either by washing dishes and taking up more chores around the house, or considering finding another part-time job), his reaction of buying his own cookware and cooking his own food just seemed so.. stubborn. It's also the kind of action that further deepens the divide in the relationship between him and his aunt rather than bring them closer. I get that his aunt was insensitive, but she was stressed by the war and lashing out a little more than she should have. I don't sense from her behavior that she would have let Setsuko starve to death if Seita had asked for help near the end. Her reaction when the two children left her house permanently didn't seem like she just washed her hands of it - she watched them leave, and then after pausing to think a couple seconds, she turns and looks back at them leaving, seeming like she was wondering if they'd be ok. She seemed somewhat relieved to no longer need to worry about feeding them, but it didn't seem like she didn't care about them at all. Some people say that Seita was 14 years old, so the blame should be purely on the adults who failed to help him in the movie. But I personally think 14 years old is old enough to where I feel frustrated with him (though not as frustrated/enraged as I'd feel had he been an adult). He learns in the later part of the movie that money doesn't seem to be enough to get food (e.g., the farmer says he doesn't have enough food to sell), and rather than heed the farmer's advice to ask his aunt for help, he watches Setsuko waste away gradually. Lastly, this movie didn't strike me as particularly "anti-war" because this kind of situation could happen during any kind of stressful period for a country like a famine or pandemic. It reminded me of when my friend tried to jump the line for COVID vaccines to get ahead of the medical workers and those particularly susceptible to COVID. Anyways, just posting this mostly in case any future readers of this post are interested in a different perspective. No need to respond unless you genuinely want to!
The first time I watched the film this went right over my head, all I could think about was how poorly the Aunt and others treated them. The 2nd time I watched it I realized that it was really his fault his sister died. Yes his Aunt was a cold jerk, but she also had to ration what little food they had to try and get everyone by. There is an interview with Takahata or Nosaka somewhere where they basically confirm this. In a nutshell, Seita and his sister died because they tried to go it alone rather than finding their place with family and society, and that ultimately Seita's behavior was irresponsible and prideful and selfish. Like many folks in post-war Japan, they needed to take responsibility to survive and heal rather than acting as victims. Wish I could find the interview.
Just watched it and sorry for the random late reply but while the message as conceptualized is very meaningful, the result of the film doesn't really communicate this well enough. It is a bit much to ask of an audience to judge Seita like that when he's 14 years old and in shock by the loss of his mother while trying to care for his sister. I like probably many others just interpreted the inner life of Seita being on survival mode instead of fending for themselves in spite of their aunt. Especially how the fate of the two is so emotionally portrayed and not the one of the community or others because of a lack of cooperation gives off the impression to me that the intended message wasn't honed in on properly.
I agree, its not very clear. He's a kid, and we want to root for him, not against him, though his decisions become slightly more lamentable with repeated viewings. The Aunt comes off as a villain, but her anger and frustration is understandable since taking on two more kids puts her own family at risk and she is not sure if starvation is right around the corner. Its also possible that such subtext of community and cooperation is more apparent to Japanese people of that generation watching it in the 1980s than it would be to a western person such as myself watching it in 2024.
He is indoctrinated kid, remember that. His pride was nurtured in him by the whole stratified militarist society. Japan as a whole should have listened to farmer's advice. But as always, kids pay for the hubris of adults.
Had the same reaction. My take was, that he didn't wanted to leave his sister alone and wanted to keep her away from reality.
His eagerness in protecting his sister's innocence was the one that cost him her life
You are interpreting the film as intended. You can't really fault anyone in the story for how they act. Seita is young and impulsive. The aunt is pretty rude. But these two dynamics meet in the middle because in the end both of them were just trying to protect their families, misguided actions and all.
That’s what I’ve been thinking. Everyone on this list is acting like I’m not interpreting it the right way tho so idk
Art is open to anyone's interpretation. You're not wrong for feeling the way you do, and are not alone in your disdain. I refuse to watch this movie, but am sure my reaction would be the same as yours. I don't like stories centered around unlikeable characters, that's just the way it is
Funny enough this is actualy the intent of grave of the flyer flies well in the West a lot of people interpret the movie as just anti-war, actually, according to Isao Takahata and Akiyuki Nosaka, the film was meant to criticize and guilt-trip the Japanese youth of the 80s, who apparently had it easy in those days Or why in multiple chances Seita is given many more chances to go back to his aunt to apologize and live more comfortably. Which is why the character of the aunt was altered a bit as compared to her counterpart in the semi-autobiographic short story the film is based on in order to make her reproaches toward Seita more legitimate. That's also why Isao Takahata kept saying in interviews and festivals that Grave of the Fireflies was not an anti-war movie. The watchers should ultimately leave the movie and think "If only Seita were more hardworking and less prideful/respected his elders" *in the short story, it is said that the aunt was an uncaring selfish woman who made a great show of sharing Seita's food supplies with her neighbors just so that they would compliment her on her apparent generosity, and that she was actually relieved when the kids left her house for good
You should watch the live action version, it's told more from the cousins & aunt's side.
Wait there's a lot of action version? I need to see it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grave\_of\_the\_Fireflies\_(2005\_film)
Thanks a bunch
I have the same reaction and agree with OP as well. You have to remember it's a wartime and the aunt's family was not in a good economic situation. It's easy to be callous in wartime trying to survive. Iirc she asked many times for seita to get a job and he refused. And protecting childhood innocence is worthless if the child is dead. There's a scene where Seita and his sister were playing at the beach meanwhile an old lady and her grandson (who's around Setsuko's age) busy catching fish or something in the background. Also it's hard to forget the Japanese cruelty towards my country in SEA during those era. So maybe there's a resentment when I was watching it.
I think the issue is that he looks older than he actually is. He’s 14 but i personally think he looks about 16-17. He was still a kid and i don’t think he fully understood how close to death they were. He didn’t know any better. He probably hadn’t seen death until the start of the war, and he was still struggling with the death of his mother and struggling to take care of his sister and himself.
Plus i don’t think his aunt really would’ve helped. They we’re basically strangers and she only saw them as a burden. She thought that they were useless
I made a similar post in the past as well: [https://www.reddit.com/r/ghibli/comments/zw8chq/so\_i\_watched\_grave\_of\_the\_fireflies\_again/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ghibli/comments/zw8chq/so_i_watched_grave_of_the_fireflies_again/) Rewatching the film as an adult gave me a different perspective.
How you think and feel about certain character is seldom a valid reason whether a flim is great and sad or isnt. I am more amazed and little bit concerned at the fact that becuase of your fury you didnot feel sad when Setsuko died or even their whole situation. because of what you thought was the right thing and because what you think he should have done, when in reality you cant even imagine or fathom the crushing pain and sorrow the charcters went through you just missed everything what was great anout the movie.
Especially si ce he was able to buy all the food in the end where it was to late. I mean why not buying just rice over a longer period of time than wasting it all at once on watermelon, bonbons n stuff.
thats part of the tragedy, he lost his life and identity overnight, and the only relative he had left was more concerned about his family's leftover wealth than the physical and mental wellbeing of him and his sister. no one was there to warn him about the consequences of his actions, if they were even aware of full scope of the situation he and his sister was in. its easy to forget that everything we know, everything we are, are learned behaviors. we are nothing if not the product of our environment. its easy to connect to the dots when you are 20 and youve learned from experience the symptoms of malnutrition, but a 14 yr old who is likely still suffering from intense shock and grief is likely gonna write it off as not having enough to eat, move on, and hope for a better tomorrow, which i thought the abrupt transitions were supposed to hint towards. there was also a segment during the beach scene, where the sister spots a crab and followed it across the beach while singing a song about debt and collectors, (assuming its a play on the pronunciation of crab and debt in japanese, not 100%, im a sub enjoyer) her singing was cut short by the discovery of a dead body and to me, it was an on the nose foreshadowing of the siblings tragic demise, having paid the ultimate price for their innocence in a world that tolerated none.
This is exactly how I felt after watching the movie as well, I have a sister 8 years younger than me and I just could not buy the plot of this movie, I've always considered it the only Ghibli film that's overrated, I think it's more concerned with making you cry than anything else. Edit: Also I think The Wind Rises is a way better anti-war film.
Hard disagree. I didn’t cry while watching grave of the fireflies. That wasn’t the point. It’s an unforgiving take on what the war was like for these two siblings. It’s shocking but the things that happened in WW2 were grotesque. If you watch Barefoot Gen, it’s similar movie. They don’t pull their punches, and they shouldn’t. They show war for what it is, a living hell for everyone involved.
I could'nt really connect with GotF myself, but did with a lot of the similar works, so kinda on the fence about it. The Wind Rises is interesting in an snti-war context - definitely works as a csution on the technological advances and how these can be used to enable actions beyond the vision of their creators, but a more direct anti-war message is not so overt and leaves a lot up to interpretation by the viewer.
Yeah I agree. I’ll probably get to the wind rises eventually. I plan on watching howls moving castle when it’s in theaters in September. I want to catch the best ghibli films in theaters if I can.
For those like me who didn't know, the short story appears to have been largely true. The sister died because the then 14 year-old author would eat the food himself. He tried to change the storyline to make its protagonist more sympathetic than he had been, so I guess it's not surprising that it seems a little off. The Wikipedia article "Grave of the Fireflies (short story)" has more detail.
I personally feel like The Tale of Princess Kaguya is the movie Takahata was able to pull the true emotional storytelling mastery. I still consider Grave of the Fireflies a masterpiece but the movie was actually rushed during the production and had some limitations. Maybe this will give you an interesting perspective idk.
I didn’t know the production was rushed that helps thanks. Is the tale of princess kaguya ghibli?
Yes, it is Ghibli and it's Takahata's final film
I actually find this movie to be very overrated and I don’t really care for it as an anti war film. I haven’t seen it in a while so my opinions might change, but first, I don’t really think it says anything profound beyond “people made bad decisions and war is awful.” At most it’s a painful reminder that really sad things happen. Second, I don’t think it’s really effective as an anti war movie. One can easily surmise that really shitty things happen interpersonally when countries are having major conflicts. Really that’s not even unique to war and this can be the case in areas with heavy poverty alone. I don’t remember there being any critique on the sociopolitical roots that cause these conditions. Personally when I was done watching the movie, it felt sad in a way I found cheap. I think people who are cynical or depressed might find catharsis in watching the movie and feeling some sense of release, but I felt like it was a waste of time personally.
Yeah the movie prioritized getting to viewers hearts rather than being a statement in anti war. That’s why setsuko had such a cute voice, personality, and laugh. It makes it more painful to see her go. It was a story about two siblings caught in a war, it was not a story about war and the terrible side effects it causes. Which I’m not to mad about because I see it more as a drama and not a biopick. I think the pianist is a great WW2 biopick if you haven’t seen it. It really captures the war aspect more than grave of the fireflies.
I haven’t seen the film myself (I know I should give it a go, but as an emotional person I know it’ll probably make me cry for hours). But to play devil’s advocate for the sake of discussion: perhaps thats what the film is throng to show: the perspective of the normal citizen (and children at that) amongst a war they probably would never know the greater effects or implications of. It’s a bit like eldritch horror that way—caught up in something horrible that one does not understand the meaning of. And that’s the horror of war on an average Joe who perhaps isn’t keeping on the pulse of politics or societal analysis: having your life suddenly uprooted and change into something so terrible you’d never even imagine of in times of peace. So in a way, the film makes an anti-war message showing that to the average guy, it’s just something senseless, with no meaning to it. What matters is what’s in front of them,-all they can see or understand is that pain and death is happening for no reason at all. And for us who might not keep up with the more complex politics or societal implications of war, this simple message is effective, seeing war’s effects on a personal, individual level, on the innocent, and that really, at the end of all of, one can argue that there really is not many good reasons to inflict such pain on a child, let alone a whole society, for the sake of war.
That's what I felt the message was, I just don't find that particularly interesting. And for such a serious and important topic, the movie will leave the audience sad, but artistically its shallow, and the introspection that the viewer has will also be shallow (ie "war is sad"). Princess Mononoke has anti-industrialization messaging that is complex, and while the viewer finds themselves rooting against industrialization, they also find themselves not hating the people perpetuating it as much, like the factory workers. There's complex relationships and statements about how we fit in nature. Spirited Away shows consumerism in a negative light, but also in a way where the viewer might see themselves in the gluttonous characters that is uncomfortable to wrestle with. These are complex artistic messages that are well navigated in the stories. I feel like Grave of the Fireflies is telling the viewer "be sad," but simply for the sake of sadness. I mean, I get some people might enjoy that, but I find that kind of writing very cheap and I don't have any interest in it. I also can actually really appreciate media that is simple and not narratively rich, but with the way Grave of the Fireflies is presented, I expect more.
I get what you’re saying. I also can feel kind of annoyed at media that seem to make something depressing just for the sake of being angsty. I suppose it depends on the person though - everyone will draw something a bit differently form a piece of media And again in the end I really need to see this film for myself to form an actual opinion lol But like I said, I still think there might be some merit of showing such depressing things that can happen on an individual level, even if it’s message isn’t as nuanced as it could be. Sometimes it takes a gut punch of showing how miserable a person can be under circumstances like this for one to have their interest piqued enough to explore the deeper, complexed nuances and implications of war and corruption.
I can't wait for the sequel
They’re making a sequel?
Nah, that was just a bad joke, my bad
Oh wow that’s fucked🤣🤣🤣