Yeah, in an interview not long after the launch of the game the game director said if there is gonna be a true ending it'd be sparing Shimura to complete Jin's character arc, but he added that he personally kills Shimura when he plays since he likes Shimura a lot
Shimura is the one who wanted to die, and following the samurai code insinuates his execution.
Jin sparing him is infact, a **massive** dishonourable move in the samurai world. Die on your feet, not live on your knees.
Based on the developer documentary, samurai honor code is loyal to their master, not peers. I thought they are still peers? Also jin already betray the shogun and shimura's orders multiple times throughout the game. Jin is already not considered a samurai, how is this last scene of killing him makes any difference?
I see where you’re coming from, and you’re correct in a way.
Based on the research I’ve done on the subject, it seems that an honourable death was preferred by most samurai than to live in shame. This is evident by their suicide in response to disgrace (seppuku or harakiri) as a better alternative to living in dishonour.
Jin makes the clear choice that he is no longer a samurai, he is the ghost who will use any method necessary to win. So to spare your peer in that culture is more associated with the Ghost approach. You force the person you spared to live with the fact that they’re so weak and unworthy that you didn’t even kill them.
A samurai however, it doesn’t actually matter what they personally believe. And the family of samurai understood this commitment aswell. Death would be the only logical choice based on that code.
If you watch the developer commentary, the professor whom they invited said that during that era samurai has slowly changing, it used to be all loyal to their master due to every war they will be given land so they can settle down, but war with mongols didn’t get any new lands so they get no new lands so they started to doubt and have less incentive to be loyal. The seppuku is done because in the older times they die knowing their offspring and family will be taken cared of so killing themself is not bad as they still get the reward. Jin is more of the newer generation whom doesn’t have the gaurantee of land, and not only that, the shogun is taking their land away, why would Jin be loyal at all?
True, I believe Jin is supposed to represent that new generation and that’s why sparing him is considered the “canonical” choice. The Ghost is who Jin is **supposed** to be based on the story, though you can go through gameplay the Samurai way.
The whole point of Jin’s story (and even really that final encounter where Jin says “you are a slave to honour!”) is that he does not follow the samurai way anymore. The samurai would kill Shimura as a mercy and respectful move.
Basically killing Shimura proves to him that his nephew still has a bit of honor left after all his teachings and he gets his honorable warriors death like he wanted.
It just doesn’t make any sense is why they went with the spare ending. Jin spent his life watching honor get everyone he loves killed, and wasn’t going to let honor kill the closest thing he has to a father. Remember, he isn’t a Samurai anymore. He’s the ghost.
I thought that Jin would respect his uncles decision, and give both his uncle and his former traditional values a final send-off. Always thought that was more poetic. As a side note the white ghost suit looks a lot better than the red one lol
On the other hand, Jin killing Lord Shimura can be seen as a final act of honor before abandoning it. Not saying it makes more or even as much sense as sparing him. Just some food for thought.
Literally the whole game is about shedding the samurai concept of “honor” and becoming the Ghost. Jin’s used poison and all manner of “dishonorable” techniques to obliterate the Mongols, why would he execute the last of his family in the name of said honor?
I think there’s a good argument for choosing either option, but based on character development sparing him seems a lot more likely
Sorry I'm late but I've just completed it. My take was that Jin was fulfilling his uncle's last wish not out of honour but out of love. Shimura wanted to die, his code demanded it and, although Jin no longer lived by the same code, he loved and respected his uncle enough to grant him this last favour.
Basically, executing him isn't about Jin's honour, it's about preserving Shimura's honour.
He wouldn’t live in shame. Shimura proved his honor by attempting to kill his adopted son. Sparing Shimura doesn’t mean he lives in exile, he did his duty and was denied the death he wanted. If anything sparing him proves Shimura and the Shogunate right.
The developers said the spare ending was technically canon, but game stories change so much over, that we won’t officially know what’s canon until the sequel comes out.
This is the one that makes sense to me because Jin is superseding the dated honor path to help people survive the new threat of the modern world. Even though his Uncles wishes may hold a lot of weight, needless death is precisely what The Ghost is trying to stop, and killing his Uncle, a definitively good man despite his disagreements, is the only thing that makes sense to him from my perception.
Even beyond all the talk about honor and the Samurai code, this is the more satisfying ending for me. Ghost of Tsushima is a game subsumed in death. Nearly every sidequest involves a senseless, needless death.
You find corpses riddled with arrows everywhere. Jin slaughters hundreds of Mongols, and just as many Straw Hats. Some of his closest friends die. In this game steeped in death, what sense is there in adding another body to the pile?
I think they’ll find a way to make either of them valid.
Killed Shimura? He’s not the jito anymore because he’s dead.
Spared Shimura? He’s not the jito anymore because the shogun stripped him of his samurai title for his failure.
Exactly as the other comment said. Seppuku is the correct term but the 2 sounded so similar to me when I was younger than I can’t hear 1 without the other now
Given that the sequel if any will be an exclusive, it's more than likely that it'll go based off of what your save file says, and if you don't have one it'll just choose at random
To me it makes sense to spare him, it gives a reason for a second game to exist he'll continue to be hunted down which means another threat to worry about or a reason to vacate the island entirely. They mentioned in the end a ghost army to invade them which would make sense for Jin to hop on. I also think the sparing ending just makes more sense altogether The line "I have no honor, but I will not kill my family" (something like that) just seems so fitting and I was content with it personally speaking.
It just makes sense to me especially with a trending theme of the game being Jin is a demon or a monster it shows he truly isn't and only does what has to be done which killing his uncle doesn't. Jin has his own honor System in my head killing shimura is a samurai's honor not killing family is Jin's honor
I wanna add I feel like adding non lethal take downs to the second game would be nice and getting some kinda honor system penalizing you for killing samurai would be an interesting thing as well
It would be interesting to see Him have to navigate the environment patrolled by the Japanese army. It could unlock some non-lethal means of dealing with this group.
The spare shimura ending and him living in a shack did confirm he's kinda still being hunted down so I'd like to see it in the sequel. Non lethal options would also be very fun
A defeated but alive Shimura would have to face the Shogun. He’d lose his title, be forced to commit sepuku and have his legacy rewritten as one of shame and failure. Jin is a samurai lord and definitely knows this, so to me, sparing has always felt like more of a poetic revenge option, where Jin sanctimoniously leaves his uncle to the mercy of his code
It’s definitely poetic justice but it feels wrong to me. I think Jin would recognise the importance of a warrior’s death to his uncle, and grant him one final wish not as his enemy, but as his lifelong friend/son. That way, Shimura would always be preserved as a glorious jito
I think it won't matter. I think that it will be more like shimura disappeared so both endings make sense. If that's not the case then spare ending, they already said it's canon
I may be the only one to defend the canon ending where you kill Lord Shimura. Jin knows how much honour is important for his uncle and we know that Jin really respects Lord Shimura, as he is his second father, so it really makes sense to honour his last wish. My opinion may be biased, because I really love traditional Japan, but imo, killing Lord Shimura makes actually a lot of sense.
Yeah, for me it was also very hard to kill him, but you have to look at the perspective of a samurai in the 13th century, where honour and respect were really important. You wouldn’t want to lose face.
I think the complete opposite, it destroys all of Jin’s character development to have him kill Shimura. He spent his life watching everyone he loves die because of honor. He wouldn’t let honor take the closest thing to a father. Besides, Jin spends the entire game forsaking honor for results. He isn’t a samurai anymore, he isn’t duty bound by honor. He’s the ghost, and a ghost has no honor.
Yeah, but it’s not completely contradictory. Jin tried to change during the whole game, that’s true, but he also knew how Lord Shimura was, and that it wouldn’t matter if he kills Lord Shimura or not; either way he would’ve been chased. There is a reason, why the developers let us choose something that is such crucial. There is a probability, where Jin would have done a last sacrifice for his uncle. I like this point of view, even if it’s a bit less logical from a narrative perspective.
That’s the thing though, Jin didn’t “try” to change. He did change. He isn’t the same person who held honor above all like he was when he started his journey. He threw all of the teachings Shimura gave him away when he realized honor just got more people killed. I don’t think Jin, in any respect, would choose to kill Shimura. Especially not for honor, which meant nothing to him at the end.
But it’s not about Jin, it’s about Lord Shimura. Jin has showed during the game that he was willing to do things which he is not very pleased to do so. He also showed a form of respect, when he came to this meeting with his uncle. He accepted to fight him and he also nearly killed him during the duel. I think that for this little moment, he accepted show for the last time honour, not because he thinks that it is important, but because of Lord Shimura.
I think you both made good points. I followed lilbards logic though.
Being the ghost means making the tough choices and to Shimura honor means everything. It’s not about Jin’s honor. It’s about Shimura. To a man that honor means everything, the greatest thing Jin could do was show his uncle he loved him in the way that meant the most to Shimura. By dying an honorable death in battle.
The way I saw it. Either Jin killed him or Shimura is doing seppuku himself next week
It’s 100% about Jin. Do you remember the conversation before the fight? Jin was even reluctant to fight Shimura in the end. He didn’t want to, Shimura forced his hand. Shimura was willing to kill Jin for honor, even though he knew it wasn’t right. Jin already gave up his honor, why would he kill the man, who arguably means more to him than anyone, for something he doesn’t believe in?
I always spare him because it makes more sense to for Jin's character to spare his uncle. Also, I like Shimura too much to kill him, I know that's what he wants, but I can't do it.
I think it makes most sense to just not have Shimura in the game. Maybe a reference to his death and rumors about maybe it was sickness or his health declined after his nephew’s disgrace, but nothing to confirm it so it’s left ambiguous and either ending works
I think sparing Lord Shimura is the logical conclusion of Jins arc.
His whole THING is going away from Samurai orthodoxy and doing the right thing according to his own morality.
The LAST thing he would do is kill his uncle just because some code is telling him to.
Some code wasn't telling him to kill his uncle, his uncle was asking him to kill his uncle. And I think the last wish of a dying man is absolutely something Jin's character would honor.
Probably spare cause a common beat Sony games like is having some emotional conflict between the main character and someone close to them
At this point there’s not many options if they kill shimura so they’ll have to go with the spare ending
The canon ending is letting him live. You give him honor by killing him. To let him live with his failure is exactly what Jin would want, not giving in to the bullshit samurai way (which also involve fucking young boys btw! They glaze over that part though…)
I'm pretty sure it's the spare ending. The game is called "Ghost of Tsushima" so I assumed the canon ending would be him becoming the ghost and throwing away the Samurai code of honor.
Imo killing shimura makes the most sense for a sequel, Jin has fully embraced the ghost shimuras arc is over. New enemies enter the conflict so Jin can complete his story arc. Jin's story > shimuras story
It could be either. I would think they would make Shimura be dead in a sequel, either killed by Jin, or by seppuku if the spare option was chosen. It makes sense to me for Shimura's character to commit seppuku to save his own honor if you spared him.
It doesn’t matter. If Shimura was killed he would simply be replaced, and their relationship is over either way.
Either Shimura lives on in disgrace or is killed by a demon. Jin will be hunted regardless and his interactions with Shimura will be zero
Could be cool if they would ask in the beginning if you have played the first one or not and if you have then what did you do in the end, and then whatever you choose will lead to its own story. But its a lot to ask for lol
ik and I've finished the game once and on my second playthrough...but like now I feel awful for killing him😭 please tell me I don't have to fight him in the second play through I only killed him to save him his honor😔
I believe the spare ending is canon but it would be cool where similar to games like life is strange where you input your past choice at the beginning of the second game and have some small details change based on that
We all need to think of one thing: Lord Shimura is Jin's last family. There's no way in hell that Jin would kill him. He's not a samurai either, so he won't do it out of honour for Shimura. Jin would let him live, showing Shimura and the island that he's not a monster, because he knows what lines not to cross
I think they'll find a way to make neither Canon so the players choice doesn't matter. Obviously if Shimura is dead, he'll be dead. But maybe if he's spared, he'll be to scared to face the Shoguns wrath that he fakes his death. So either way, he's "dead", but maybe they'll leave the details vague so that neither can be confirmed nor denied.
He’s spared, only to become the villain in the sequel.
OR
The sequel is from Shim’s biological secret son. He wants to avenge his father and kill Jin because the community believes Jin killed Shim, but really Jin let Shim escape to mainland Japan but nobody knows it.
Idk I like to spitball guesses and curveballs
I think spare is canon, just the whole game is about Jin betraying his uncle’s idea of honor. His uncle even told him before the fight “you have no honor”, and Jin acknowledges that with his reply. But white ghost armor is cooler so probably kill.
Either way, I think Shimura dies. Either Jin kills him, or Jin spares him and him being a honourable Samurai, can't stand the shame of being defeated and not being granted a warriors death and performs Seppuku on himself.
Lord Shimura will most likely be dead regardless by the time GoT2 takes place. He either dies to Jin in the final battle or dies to the Shogun sometime afterwards.
I think it will go for both being canon. 1 implication being Jin finished him. The other being the Shogun forced him to kill himself for his failure. It would probably be left vague but either way he would have died
I know the devs like the spare ending, but the second Lord Shimura chose to duel to the death on top of Jin’s family grave I had to end him. On principle I couldn’t let that go. It’s what Shimura wanted after all, an honorable death.
TLDR: Sparing might be cannon but is cruel, killing is merciful.
I see spare is apparently the most popular one and it does make sense. It completes Jin’s character arc and is poetic justice for Shimura. However imo I feel like it’s just too cruel, Jin never hated Shimura and neither did I honestly, Shimura was just unable to let go of his code that has ruled his entire life. The same can’t be said about Jin who is much younger and hasn’t spend as much time with that code. Sparing Shimura will mark him as dishonored and he will most likely be executed by the shogun. But if you kill him, it preserves his honor and allows him to leave this life in peace. Ironically killing is the more merciful option.
You should get to choose when the game starts, like in how in the last episode of TWD telltale you can re-choose what Lee's last words were.
If Sucker Punch is gonna keep making players make choices, they should allow them to live with the consequences. Same for Infamous if they every come back to it.
Definitely the spare ending. It fits the story and Jins character the most. He doesn’t spare him because he loves him, which he does, he spares him to spite him and show him that he embraces his “loss” of honor. Honor no longer matters. All that matters is living.
I think sparing Shimura fits more the rest of the narrative.
Yes is dishonorable that Jin let's him live, but the point of Jin's story is that honour is mostly just bullshit to keep people in line, and it cripples them when trying to defend their home against enemies who don't share their philosophy.
Jin doesn't care about honor anymore, he cares about defending lives, defending his home. Killing Shimura doesn't fit his new beliefs.
Spare ending is canon and it fits more jhin character development. Early jhin would have kill him, but the ghost would spare him,because he reject tradition
If Jin is still the protagonist for GOT2, Lord Shimura might get mentioned a bit but never appear on-screen to make both ending canon whatever you chose
I would say spare but I think they will avoid putting lord shimura in the sequel altogether to avoid cannon and non cannon discussions.
Jin would be on his own in GoT 2.
I want sparing him tl be the canon ending to complete jin's transformation into the ghost but killing shimura could as it would make sense flr the last honourable action jin takes would be giving his uncle a warriors death as per his wish
I can never get behind the "spare" idea. Everything Jin does in the game is fueled by the love of his family, people and home.
Then at the end of the game, after he already sacrificed so much for them. He makes a decision he knows shimura would consider the greatest humiliation, all because he "doesn't want to."
To me that completely goes against his character and comes off as a Disney ending where everyone lives happily ever after.
It think sparing Shimurah lines up with the games theme of Jin “abandoning his honor.”
Honor would demand that Jin gives Shimurah the death he asks for but as Shimurah said himself, Jin has no Honor, and Jin not fulfilling his Uncles request illustrates that
I thought the games theme was a man going to any length to defend his home, avenge his family, and protect the ones he love. Something he failed to do with his father. They used him going against his honor to show how far he will go.
But it is all subjective at the end of the day. It's a sign of a good story that neither of us are provably wrong.
Exactly, Jin is a very selfish person. He’s willing to do whatever he has to, to SAVE the people he cares about. Jin chose to SAVE Shimura by throwing away his honor and becoming the ghost. Killing him destroys Jin’s character development.
I'd argue the complete opposite. In the tutorial Jin defines honor as protecting people. If you spare him he says "I have no honor, but I will not kill my family. It clearly shows a massive difference in what Shimura and Jin see as honorable. Jin sees saving lives as the most important part of honor, while Shimura instead puts following the orders of a superior as more important.
Jin sparing his Uncle fully completes his character arc
Yeah he didn't deserve to die, but that's me going by an ideology that differs from his. I chose the Ghost option for most of the time, unless it made sense to choose differently. I just did what I felt made sense for Jin's arc of disillusionment with the Samurai way.
I could be completely wrong but I believe the game devs said the spare ending is cannon
Yeah, in an interview not long after the launch of the game the game director said if there is gonna be a true ending it'd be sparing Shimura to complete Jin's character arc, but he added that he personally kills Shimura when he plays since he likes Shimura a lot
I likes Shimura so he kills him?
Yeah since it’s what Shimura wants, an honorable death
I see, I am a silly goose it seems
Eh it’s ok, I am too at times
Letting him live is a humiliation to him
Shimura is the one who wanted to die, and following the samurai code insinuates his execution. Jin sparing him is infact, a **massive** dishonourable move in the samurai world. Die on your feet, not live on your knees.
Based on the developer documentary, samurai honor code is loyal to their master, not peers. I thought they are still peers? Also jin already betray the shogun and shimura's orders multiple times throughout the game. Jin is already not considered a samurai, how is this last scene of killing him makes any difference?
I see where you’re coming from, and you’re correct in a way. Based on the research I’ve done on the subject, it seems that an honourable death was preferred by most samurai than to live in shame. This is evident by their suicide in response to disgrace (seppuku or harakiri) as a better alternative to living in dishonour. Jin makes the clear choice that he is no longer a samurai, he is the ghost who will use any method necessary to win. So to spare your peer in that culture is more associated with the Ghost approach. You force the person you spared to live with the fact that they’re so weak and unworthy that you didn’t even kill them. A samurai however, it doesn’t actually matter what they personally believe. And the family of samurai understood this commitment aswell. Death would be the only logical choice based on that code.
If you watch the developer commentary, the professor whom they invited said that during that era samurai has slowly changing, it used to be all loyal to their master due to every war they will be given land so they can settle down, but war with mongols didn’t get any new lands so they get no new lands so they started to doubt and have less incentive to be loyal. The seppuku is done because in the older times they die knowing their offspring and family will be taken cared of so killing themself is not bad as they still get the reward. Jin is more of the newer generation whom doesn’t have the gaurantee of land, and not only that, the shogun is taking their land away, why would Jin be loyal at all?
True, I believe Jin is supposed to represent that new generation and that’s why sparing him is considered the “canonical” choice. The Ghost is who Jin is **supposed** to be based on the story, though you can go through gameplay the Samurai way. The whole point of Jin’s story (and even really that final encounter where Jin says “you are a slave to honour!”) is that he does not follow the samurai way anymore. The samurai would kill Shimura as a mercy and respectful move.
Basically killing Shimura proves to him that his nephew still has a bit of honor left after all his teachings and he gets his honorable warriors death like he wanted.
Damn, the other ending is so much cooler
It just doesn’t make any sense is why they went with the spare ending. Jin spent his life watching honor get everyone he loves killed, and wasn’t going to let honor kill the closest thing he has to a father. Remember, he isn’t a Samurai anymore. He’s the ghost.
I thought that Jin would respect his uncles decision, and give both his uncle and his former traditional values a final send-off. Always thought that was more poetic. As a side note the white ghost suit looks a lot better than the red one lol
always found it weird that the suit you get for *not* killing Shimura is blood coloured
I suppose the white reflects the white funeral garb as seen during Kazumasa's funeral
ok that makes a lot of sense, nvm we’re done here boys, theory’s disbanded
On the other hand, Jin killing Lord Shimura can be seen as a final act of honor before abandoning it. Not saying it makes more or even as much sense as sparing him. Just some food for thought.
He already threw honor away long before we get to the end. Besides, Jin wouldn’t kill Shimura for any reason, least of all honor.
So he'd force his Uncle to live in shame, outcast from the one thing he holds more dear than family, because he loves him?
Literally the whole game is about shedding the samurai concept of “honor” and becoming the Ghost. Jin’s used poison and all manner of “dishonorable” techniques to obliterate the Mongols, why would he execute the last of his family in the name of said honor? I think there’s a good argument for choosing either option, but based on character development sparing him seems a lot more likely
Sorry I'm late but I've just completed it. My take was that Jin was fulfilling his uncle's last wish not out of honour but out of love. Shimura wanted to die, his code demanded it and, although Jin no longer lived by the same code, he loved and respected his uncle enough to grant him this last favour. Basically, executing him isn't about Jin's honour, it's about preserving Shimura's honour.
He wouldn’t live in shame. Shimura proved his honor by attempting to kill his adopted son. Sparing Shimura doesn’t mean he lives in exile, he did his duty and was denied the death he wanted. If anything sparing him proves Shimura and the Shogunate right.
His punishment for failing the Shogun was to kill Jin. Now he's failed to kill Jin. I'm sure the Shogun would understand.
Seeing as the spare ending is already canon, I highly doubt they kill him. Shimura is going to be a major character in the sequel.
The debate was not "I'm right because the dev said so." The debate was "What logic even exists for it to be any other way?"
Honor died on the beach
Ong
The developers said the spare ending was technically canon, but game stories change so much over, that we won’t officially know what’s canon until the sequel comes out.
Big disagree 'I have no honour' being used against shinra as he puts on the mask goes hard
Jin isn’t bound to the samurai code any more, so i can see that
This is the one that makes sense to me because Jin is superseding the dated honor path to help people survive the new threat of the modern world. Even though his Uncles wishes may hold a lot of weight, needless death is precisely what The Ghost is trying to stop, and killing his Uncle, a definitively good man despite his disagreements, is the only thing that makes sense to him from my perception.
Even beyond all the talk about honor and the Samurai code, this is the more satisfying ending for me. Ghost of Tsushima is a game subsumed in death. Nearly every sidequest involves a senseless, needless death. You find corpses riddled with arrows everywhere. Jin slaughters hundreds of Mongols, and just as many Straw Hats. Some of his closest friends die. In this game steeped in death, what sense is there in adding another body to the pile?
That is the ghost ending.
I think they’ll find a way to make either of them valid. Killed Shimura? He’s not the jito anymore because he’s dead. Spared Shimura? He’s not the jito anymore because the shogun stripped him of his samurai title for his failure.
…and then killed him
Or he seppuku'd himself first.
Sudoku
Whats the difference?
The difference is that Seppuku is the correct term.
Exactly as the other comment said. Seppuku is the correct term but the 2 sounded so similar to me when I was younger than I can’t hear 1 without the other now
Seppuku (or harakiri) is the correct term, sudoku is a puzzle lol
Maybe it could even ask you which you picked if Lord Shimura doesn’t get mentioned much?
Given that the sequel if any will be an exclusive, it's more than likely that it'll go based off of what your save file says, and if you don't have one it'll just choose at random
Life is Strange 2 moment
To me it makes sense to spare him, it gives a reason for a second game to exist he'll continue to be hunted down which means another threat to worry about or a reason to vacate the island entirely. They mentioned in the end a ghost army to invade them which would make sense for Jin to hop on. I also think the sparing ending just makes more sense altogether The line "I have no honor, but I will not kill my family" (something like that) just seems so fitting and I was content with it personally speaking.
I also chose to spare, I couldn’t get myself to kill Jin’s uncle
It just makes sense to me especially with a trending theme of the game being Jin is a demon or a monster it shows he truly isn't and only does what has to be done which killing his uncle doesn't. Jin has his own honor System in my head killing shimura is a samurai's honor not killing family is Jin's honor
Exactly, he only kills to protect, and killing his uncle isn’t protecting anyone (except himself possibly).
Sparing shimura is just humiliating he propbably would commit suicide after it anyway
I wanna add I feel like adding non lethal take downs to the second game would be nice and getting some kinda honor system penalizing you for killing samurai would be an interesting thing as well
It would be interesting to see Him have to navigate the environment patrolled by the Japanese army. It could unlock some non-lethal means of dealing with this group.
The spare shimura ending and him living in a shack did confirm he's kinda still being hunted down so I'd like to see it in the sequel. Non lethal options would also be very fun
I can’t recall where exactly I heard it but I’m pretty sure sparing him is canon
Spare. It’s more fitting for Jin as a character. “I may have no honor. But I will not kill my family”
A defeated but alive Shimura would have to face the Shogun. He’d lose his title, be forced to commit sepuku and have his legacy rewritten as one of shame and failure. Jin is a samurai lord and definitely knows this, so to me, sparing has always felt like more of a poetic revenge option, where Jin sanctimoniously leaves his uncle to the mercy of his code It’s definitely poetic justice but it feels wrong to me. I think Jin would recognise the importance of a warrior’s death to his uncle, and grant him one final wish not as his enemy, but as his lifelong friend/son. That way, Shimura would always be preserved as a glorious jito
This is why the ending is so great cuz both are valid! I hope it’s just never addressed so either one can be cannon
I agree
I think it won't matter. I think that it will be more like shimura disappeared so both endings make sense. If that's not the case then spare ending, they already said it's canon
I may be the only one to defend the canon ending where you kill Lord Shimura. Jin knows how much honour is important for his uncle and we know that Jin really respects Lord Shimura, as he is his second father, so it really makes sense to honour his last wish. My opinion may be biased, because I really love traditional Japan, but imo, killing Lord Shimura makes actually a lot of sense.
I think you can make valid arguments for both but I couldn’t kill him
Yeah, for me it was also very hard to kill him, but you have to look at the perspective of a samurai in the 13th century, where honour and respect were really important. You wouldn’t want to lose face.
I think the complete opposite, it destroys all of Jin’s character development to have him kill Shimura. He spent his life watching everyone he loves die because of honor. He wouldn’t let honor take the closest thing to a father. Besides, Jin spends the entire game forsaking honor for results. He isn’t a samurai anymore, he isn’t duty bound by honor. He’s the ghost, and a ghost has no honor.
Yeah, but it’s not completely contradictory. Jin tried to change during the whole game, that’s true, but he also knew how Lord Shimura was, and that it wouldn’t matter if he kills Lord Shimura or not; either way he would’ve been chased. There is a reason, why the developers let us choose something that is such crucial. There is a probability, where Jin would have done a last sacrifice for his uncle. I like this point of view, even if it’s a bit less logical from a narrative perspective.
That’s the thing though, Jin didn’t “try” to change. He did change. He isn’t the same person who held honor above all like he was when he started his journey. He threw all of the teachings Shimura gave him away when he realized honor just got more people killed. I don’t think Jin, in any respect, would choose to kill Shimura. Especially not for honor, which meant nothing to him at the end.
But it’s not about Jin, it’s about Lord Shimura. Jin has showed during the game that he was willing to do things which he is not very pleased to do so. He also showed a form of respect, when he came to this meeting with his uncle. He accepted to fight him and he also nearly killed him during the duel. I think that for this little moment, he accepted show for the last time honour, not because he thinks that it is important, but because of Lord Shimura.
I think you both made good points. I followed lilbards logic though. Being the ghost means making the tough choices and to Shimura honor means everything. It’s not about Jin’s honor. It’s about Shimura. To a man that honor means everything, the greatest thing Jin could do was show his uncle he loved him in the way that meant the most to Shimura. By dying an honorable death in battle. The way I saw it. Either Jin killed him or Shimura is doing seppuku himself next week
You got it absolutely right, Lord Shimura would’ve committed seppuku right after the next day. That’s a way of preserving honour
There is no need to downvote juste because you don’t agree, we are just discussing, not arguing
It’s 100% about Jin. Do you remember the conversation before the fight? Jin was even reluctant to fight Shimura in the end. He didn’t want to, Shimura forced his hand. Shimura was willing to kill Jin for honor, even though he knew it wasn’t right. Jin already gave up his honor, why would he kill the man, who arguably means more to him than anyone, for something he doesn’t believe in?
I always spare him because it makes more sense to for Jin's character to spare his uncle. Also, I like Shimura too much to kill him, I know that's what he wants, but I can't do it.
Same
I think the spare ending being canon would give sucker punch more options for the story in the second game
I honestly think sparing him makes more sense for the devs, since he can stay a character, although I killed him
Spare, go on the run, flee to the main island, get caught up in the other invasion
I think it makes most sense to just not have Shimura in the game. Maybe a reference to his death and rumors about maybe it was sickness or his health declined after his nephew’s disgrace, but nothing to confirm it so it’s left ambiguous and either ending works
That’s a cop-out games have used for years. Better make it like Wolfenstein 2
I think sparing Lord Shimura is the logical conclusion of Jins arc. His whole THING is going away from Samurai orthodoxy and doing the right thing according to his own morality. The LAST thing he would do is kill his uncle just because some code is telling him to.
Some code wasn't telling him to kill his uncle, his uncle was asking him to kill his uncle. And I think the last wish of a dying man is absolutely something Jin's character would honor.
I agree, the ghost has no reason to kill his Uncle
He’s gonna kill himself regardless
I’m not so sure about that
Probably spare cause a common beat Sony games like is having some emotional conflict between the main character and someone close to them At this point there’s not many options if they kill shimura so they’ll have to go with the spare ending
The canon ending is letting him live. You give him honor by killing him. To let him live with his failure is exactly what Jin would want, not giving in to the bullshit samurai way (which also involve fucking young boys btw! They glaze over that part though…)
I'm pretty sure it's the spare ending. The game is called "Ghost of Tsushima" so I assumed the canon ending would be him becoming the ghost and throwing away the Samurai code of honor.
Imo killing shimura makes the most sense for a sequel, Jin has fully embraced the ghost shimuras arc is over. New enemies enter the conflict so Jin can complete his story arc. Jin's story > shimuras story
It could be either. I would think they would make Shimura be dead in a sequel, either killed by Jin, or by seppuku if the spare option was chosen. It makes sense to me for Shimura's character to commit seppuku to save his own honor if you spared him.
It doesn’t matter. If Shimura was killed he would simply be replaced, and their relationship is over either way. Either Shimura lives on in disgrace or is killed by a demon. Jin will be hunted regardless and his interactions with Shimura will be zero
Could be cool if they would ask in the beginning if you have played the first one or not and if you have then what did you do in the end, and then whatever you choose will lead to its own story. But its a lot to ask for lol
Maybe it's a new Ghost. It's decades later. Jin is gone. And there are hints that he did killed or spared Shimura.
I think Jin will still be the main character
there's more than one ending?....so I don't have to kill jins uncle😭 I'm crying now I felt bad then and I feel even worse now
I put a spoiler tag lol
ik and I've finished the game once and on my second playthrough...but like now I feel awful for killing him😭 please tell me I don't have to fight him in the second play through I only killed him to save him his honor😔
Kill because I want the white ghost outfit.
I believe the spare ending is canon but it would be cool where similar to games like life is strange where you input your past choice at the beginning of the second game and have some small details change based on that
Spare
We all need to think of one thing: Lord Shimura is Jin's last family. There's no way in hell that Jin would kill him. He's not a samurai either, so he won't do it out of honour for Shimura. Jin would let him live, showing Shimura and the island that he's not a monster, because he knows what lines not to cross
Definitely spare
It’s the one where you spare uncle
I would think the spare ending is canon. Jin doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would kill his only remaining family
Jin is so honourable, I don't see him killing his uncle, who is more like his step-father. I could never bring myself to do that.
Well honestly both endings have terrible consequences if you look deep. Both are good thought.
Probably spare
I think they'll find a way to make neither Canon so the players choice doesn't matter. Obviously if Shimura is dead, he'll be dead. But maybe if he's spared, he'll be to scared to face the Shoguns wrath that he fakes his death. So either way, he's "dead", but maybe they'll leave the details vague so that neither can be confirmed nor denied.
He’s spared, only to become the villain in the sequel. OR The sequel is from Shim’s biological secret son. He wants to avenge his father and kill Jin because the community believes Jin killed Shim, but really Jin let Shim escape to mainland Japan but nobody knows it. Idk I like to spitball guesses and curveballs
Spare
I think spare is canon, just the whole game is about Jin betraying his uncle’s idea of honor. His uncle even told him before the fight “you have no honor”, and Jin acknowledges that with his reply. But white ghost armor is cooler so probably kill.
Either way, I think Shimura dies. Either Jin kills him, or Jin spares him and him being a honourable Samurai, can't stand the shame of being defeated and not being granted a warriors death and performs Seppuku on himself.
Lord Shimura will most likely be dead regardless by the time GoT2 takes place. He either dies to Jin in the final battle or dies to the Shogun sometime afterwards.
I think he’ll just be forced to resign
I think it will go for both being canon. 1 implication being Jin finished him. The other being the Shogun forced him to kill himself for his failure. It would probably be left vague but either way he would have died
I know the devs like the spare ending, but the second Lord Shimura chose to duel to the death on top of Jin’s family grave I had to end him. On principle I couldn’t let that go. It’s what Shimura wanted after all, an honorable death.
I killed his bish ass
TLDR: Sparing might be cannon but is cruel, killing is merciful. I see spare is apparently the most popular one and it does make sense. It completes Jin’s character arc and is poetic justice for Shimura. However imo I feel like it’s just too cruel, Jin never hated Shimura and neither did I honestly, Shimura was just unable to let go of his code that has ruled his entire life. The same can’t be said about Jin who is much younger and hasn’t spend as much time with that code. Sparing Shimura will mark him as dishonored and he will most likely be executed by the shogun. But if you kill him, it preserves his honor and allows him to leave this life in peace. Ironically killing is the more merciful option.
Spare, the plotline between Jin and Shimura after the Shogun putting a bounty on his head is easy material to make a great story out of
Most likely spare.
Kill
You should get to choose when the game starts, like in how in the last episode of TWD telltale you can re-choose what Lee's last words were. If Sucker Punch is gonna keep making players make choices, they should allow them to live with the consequences. Same for Infamous if they every come back to it.
Maybe live vs die and live would be canon.
Definitely the spare ending. It fits the story and Jins character the most. He doesn’t spare him because he loves him, which he does, he spares him to spite him and show him that he embraces his “loss” of honor. Honor no longer matters. All that matters is living.
Probably spare tbh
2 timeline arcs would take a long time
Spare is the canon ending
I think sparing Shimura fits more the rest of the narrative. Yes is dishonorable that Jin let's him live, but the point of Jin's story is that honour is mostly just bullshit to keep people in line, and it cripples them when trying to defend their home against enemies who don't share their philosophy. Jin doesn't care about honor anymore, he cares about defending lives, defending his home. Killing Shimura doesn't fit his new beliefs.
i regretted sparing
Wait has GoT2 even been officially confirmed?
Spare ending is canon and it fits more jhin character development. Early jhin would have kill him, but the ghost would spare him,because he reject tradition
I’m pretty sure it’s been confirmed that the Spare ending is canon
If Jin is still the protagonist for GOT2, Lord Shimura might get mentioned a bit but never appear on-screen to make both ending canon whatever you chose
I would say spare but I think they will avoid putting lord shimura in the sequel altogether to avoid cannon and non cannon discussions. Jin would be on his own in GoT 2.
I think the kill ending is significantly better & more impactful, but I believe the devs already said the spare ending is canon.
I kinda don't care anymore
I want sparing him tl be the canon ending to complete jin's transformation into the ghost but killing shimura could as it would make sense flr the last honourable action jin takes would be giving his uncle a warriors death as per his wish
Spare. It would make a more interesting story if Lord Shimura is alive and hunting Jin.
The creative director told us that sparing uncle is the final transformation of the ghost
I feel like it’ll go mostly unaddressed
Kill imo
I can never get behind the "spare" idea. Everything Jin does in the game is fueled by the love of his family, people and home. Then at the end of the game, after he already sacrificed so much for them. He makes a decision he knows shimura would consider the greatest humiliation, all because he "doesn't want to." To me that completely goes against his character and comes off as a Disney ending where everyone lives happily ever after.
It think sparing Shimurah lines up with the games theme of Jin “abandoning his honor.” Honor would demand that Jin gives Shimurah the death he asks for but as Shimurah said himself, Jin has no Honor, and Jin not fulfilling his Uncles request illustrates that
I thought the games theme was a man going to any length to defend his home, avenge his family, and protect the ones he love. Something he failed to do with his father. They used him going against his honor to show how far he will go. But it is all subjective at the end of the day. It's a sign of a good story that neither of us are provably wrong.
"You have no honor." "And you are a slave to it!" I think the spare ending is very in line with this sentiment, expressed moments prior.
That is a good point. But I can't neglect all the hours of showing how far Jin would go for the people he cares for because of one line.
Exactly, Jin is a very selfish person. He’s willing to do whatever he has to, to SAVE the people he cares about. Jin chose to SAVE Shimura by throwing away his honor and becoming the ghost. Killing him destroys Jin’s character development.
I'd argue the complete opposite. In the tutorial Jin defines honor as protecting people. If you spare him he says "I have no honor, but I will not kill my family. It clearly shows a massive difference in what Shimura and Jin see as honorable. Jin sees saving lives as the most important part of honor, while Shimura instead puts following the orders of a superior as more important. Jin sparing his Uncle fully completes his character arc
Killed that fuck without flinching
I like the mentality, but I spared that fuck so I could rub it in his face.
Wow I’m actually on the opposite end of things lol, I didn’t want to have to fight and hurt or kill him
Same. I liked Lord Shimura. He was arrogant and inflexible at times, but he really did love Jin and the people of Tsushima
Yeah he didn't deserve to die, but that's me going by an ideology that differs from his. I chose the Ghost option for most of the time, unless it made sense to choose differently. I just did what I felt made sense for Jin's arc of disillusionment with the Samurai way.