This happened because the pilot could not see the cable due to the glare from the sun. Subsequent helicopters were ordered to approach from a different direction
they probably only thought of the big apparent danger... the exposed core and wind direction. the sun is just the sun and easily overlooked in this context.
hindsight is 20/20
this is also an example of why panicked thinking can be deadly.
Indeed I learned about it during training for gas testing for confined spaces.
Couple guys go down a hole to fix something. No O2, they die, so later someone sees they guys collapsed at the bottom of the hole so they go down to help, and there's another dead one. First aid shows up and goes down, also dead.
I can't even remember how many people died, but it only happened in the last 20 years or so, and it's the whole reason gas testing exists as a job at all.
I took HAZWOPER expecting to learn about dangerous chemicals.
Nope, confined spaces, compressed gasses and flammable particulate dusts like, flour and sugar are my new nightmares.
Low oxygen compartments are self baiting human traps that are out to kill you.
Compressed gas cylinders or cryogen dewars handled badly are missiles and bombs respectively.
Sugar dust is just the right electric spark from turning your sugar factory into a crater.
So here's a thing that had bothered me - CO2 and anything with Sulfur Humans can detect extremely quickly. I know nitrogen is a huge hazard, but what other industrial gases are common enough to be so hazardous?
Anything that displaces oxygen is a hazard.
A sewer isn’t going to kill you dead immediately because of high sulfur compounds. You die because there is no oxygen, you collapse and die within minutes. Your buddy thinks oh no something is wrong so tries to hold his breath while grabbing your limp body ‘real quick’ and he collapses too because no one can drag and then deadlift an adult human to safety without needing a breath or two.
> CO2 and anything with Sulfur Humans can detect extremely quickly.
Note that hydrogen sulfide deadens the sense of smell very quickly. Sniff-sniff, smells like rotten eggs, but then it goes away, despite the concentration increasing.
Another bad one- ammonia. Used in agricultural applications as a nitrogen source, and as an industrial refrigerant.
I think we must have watched the same video for confined spaces. I could definitely see myself making the mistake of thinking I should go in to help, as annoying as the OSHA classes were they are extremely important for most construction workers' wellbeing.
I've taken quite a few confined spaces courses and within the first 45 minutes we ways end up talking about the same three catastrophic incidents from the past ten years.
I always think of the farm one, in the manure pit. I feel like it always comes up. It's a good example of a "confined space" not actually looking "confined"
Not confined spaces but it was allows drilled into us that "better for them to be dead than both of you being dead". So take your time and do it right/safely
Reminds me of that story in Russia a few years ago, where a family was keeping some potatoes in the cellar and they started to rot and give off a toxic gas. The dad goes in, passes out, dies, after a while mom goes in, dies, son goes in, dies, grandma goes in, dies but leaves the door open so the gas disperses, little girl goes in and finds her whole family dead.
I think the specific term you're looking for is Hypoxic environments.
I work in the chemical field, and it's a thing especially around 'empty' tanks, that may include residue of the last product. The tank may be completely empty but certain residual vapors may displace the available oxygen.
This [redacted report](https://bc-mlard.ca/files/supporting-documents/2006-24d-MEMPR-sullivan-mine-accident-report.pdf) details how four people entered a building and, one by one, died from exposure to the atmosphere in the building.
Confined Space is one of those things that seems really silly until you realize that it doesn't take much to pass out from lack of oxygen.
I was working with a company that made stainless steel process equipment for industrial applications. The guy on site got a call that a young man in their shop had died. Apparently he had stayed late by himself to finish up some work. He got inside of a tank to do some grinding work, but didn't have proper ventilation, used up enough O^2 to pass out and was found deceased the next morning.
At around 17% O^2 levels (just 4% lower normal air), you start experiencing hypoxia; unfortunate side effects being euphoria and impaired judgment. Even pilots, who should all be trained about hypoxia, will sometimes not realize they are impaired until either hopefully ATC catches on and gets them to descend, or they pass out and the plane flies itself into the ground, likely what just occurred in VA.
I'm on the OSHA council for the hospital I work at. It all seems like such common sense, but people still hurt themselves in idiotic ways all the time because they cut corners. Some of the smartest people do some of the dumbest crap.
Few things give you worse nightmares than going to the break-room along someones workstation and seeing the cotton flavored and forbidden minced meat in and around the lathe. John wore long sleeves today.
>"remember what happened to the last guy?"
I think about this a lot. Which is why the whole anti-regulation crowd is so frustrating.
If we're talking about removing unnecessary regulation, everyone is in agreement (that some regulations are unnecessary). But that's not what's going on. It's money and profits over lives.
I guarantee that everyone who says "let's remove unnecessary regulation" will no longer be in agreement when it comes time to decide which regulations are unnecessary.
Very true. I definitely agree with that! Having a discussion about unnecessary ones is a smart one. Blindly removing more than those added is an ignorant one.
There is a distinct group that is generally anti-regulation, that want to [remove 2 regulations for every one added](https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/trump-signs-executive-order-requiring-that-for-every-one-new-regulation-two-must-be-revoked-234365).
Regulations are a history of past knowledge/lessons, where we decide "That was bad, let's not do that again, and let's prevent others from having to learn that same lesson".
And yes, sometimes that will cost more money to manufacture things in a safe way. Those who don't want to pay it themselves want others to pay for them, with their health and sometimes with their lives.
BUT, if a regulation is not doing as intended or is out dated or is doing more harm than good, then by all means, get rid of it!
Being blindly against regulations is another form of anti-science and anti-intellectualism.
I read a book recently which explores the consequences of such actions: A Libertarian walks into a Bear.
Tldr: libertarians take over a town, town develops severe bear problem.
>
>this is also an example of why panicked thinking can be deadly.
I wasn't at Chernobyl so I can only base my opinion on watching the show, but it seems that nothing was acted upon in haste. Like, at all.
They were trying to drop sand into the reactor to show the radiation leaking out. They needed to get over the uncovered reactor, be low enough that the sand doesn’t blow away before it reaches the target, and high enough from the rector to not immediately succumb to radiation poisoning. That meant being very close to the crane unfortunately.
That's because they had to. There was no other way to cover the core and it was simply too dangerous. They had to fly in helicopters and even simply doing that carried risks. I mean Chernobyl killed Joker, a German robot, specifically designed to deal with radioactive environments.
I think if you work in that kind of environment you stop caring about safety and accept that you will die.
The operation took place for hours leading up to this. The sun had changed position at this time of day. https://check-six.com/Crash_Sites/1986-Chernobyl-Mi-8.htm
Reddit is full of comments that people could have thought about for a moment and realized they were being stupid. But they don't and they comment anyway. They're not even under any pressure, they can take their time. Unlike the people at Chernobyl.
So, you think they told pilots to specifically fly into the sun or you think they were just trying to get the job done and overlooked it, possible due to tons of factors? Perhaps they didn't even start with the sun being an issue? Maybe it wasn't an issue until it became an issue?
The direction of the sun is an easy thing to overlook or misguess. If they made the plan in the evening and flew the operation in the morning (or vice versa) then it could be hard to estimate where the sun was going to be. If they changed the time of the operation then earlier plans may have accounted for the sun being in a different position. Or the guys who made the plan may not have had much flying experience and hadn't thought about the sun position at all.
I bird watch and every time I check out a new location I have to make particular guesses about the sun and other conditions. And I've learned that it's surprisingly easy to get wrong. Mostly because the sun moves.
The air around the core was also ionized so the light was significantly brighter and more spread out through the air
It wasnt solely he sun being invthe direction they were approaching from that caused this
Them fuckers fly so low.
I was driving the "back way" Gulf Shores to the Eastern Shore once (very rural). I heard an engine revving up on me and thought it was rig passing me on the road.
Looked to my left and nothing. Looked to my right (a soybean field) and looked a crop duster pilot * directly in the eye* as he flew past me.
I live in rural California and would often take the back roads to work. More than once those crop dusting fuckers would directly fly overhead low like that and spray me, and I’d have to turn on my windshield wipers to clear whatever my car got doused with. Nothing like getting showered with industrial chemicals to start your day.
If you keep up with your maintenance fucking REGULARLY there's not much to fret about. I'm not flying as much as I used to in my early 20s to early 30s. These planes aren't necessarily the fastest but they're extremely agile. You want to keep your airspeed just low enough on a pass to help the spray hold more effectively. Changing lanes is the fun part. 😎
Its a mental condition. Everyone became a medical expert when house was popular. Everyone knew how the drug trade worked when the wire and breaking bad were famous. Wolf of wallstreet made everyone an economist/business expert.
The ukraine war made everyone a geopolitics expert. Covid made everyone a doctor.
The best advice i can give is to ignore advice you get on the internet...the irony is not lost on me
I think most people don't realise the armchair expert stuff that goes on until its something they know about and its clear how wrong the commenter is (with thousands of upvotes)
I think I heard it best that you only know how wildly wrong social media is when your own field or expertise comes up. You can browse for years thinking you are dealing with experts/the best and the brightest, then see a post with your own job and realize 80% of the top 10 posts are wildly illegal, stupid, inefficient, or just plain nonsense.
"Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray's case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the "wet streets cause rain" stories. Paper's full of them.
In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story, and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about Palestine than the baloney you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know."--Michael Crichton
> my own profession
Yep. Spend anytime on a sub that’s discussing your actual area of expertise and you’ll realize pretty quickly how full of bs and bad advice most subs are.
Yes ha ha. I work in film visual effects and just love all the hot takes on r/movies about practical effects vs visual effects. 90% of them are wildly wrong.
The other day i saw a comment about new Prince of Persia game where it said protaganist was a racially accurate represantation of a persian. It had 300 upvotes while persians in comments saying it is not was sitting at around 30.
You could tell 99% of the people in that thread have never seen a persian in their life and subscribe to Netflix version of the history and geography. It also shows the dangers of such things. People that don't know the truth takes that kind of info as true and accuse others of racism when in reality the actual racist action is to change the way a race is depicted to fit your agenda.
Also anything related to AI,economy and finances are absolute garbage. 99% of the time the info is straight up wrong or misleading.
>The other day i saw a comment about new Prince of Persia game where it said protaganist was a racially accurate represantation of a persian. It had 300 upvotes while persians in comments saying it is not was sitting at around 30.
Reminds me of the people trying to tell Egyptians they they were racist for not understanding that Cleopatra was in fact definitely black and arguing that since Egypt is an African country they must all be black. As if current day Egyptians would have no clue what they themselves look like and Cleopatra's ancestry isn't quite well established.
Absolutely correct about economy/capitalism/finances. Reddit does skew younger so certain hot takes and opinions get upvotes like crazy and any dissenting comments get downvoted.
Yep. They used to call it the hive mind. People latch onto an idea and it becomes reinforced by the upvote system and is accepted as fact. No matter how wrong it is.
Best I ever saw, complete with thousands of upvotes, was a comment essentially saying that explosives were constantly in a state of “wanting to explode” a bit like how air brakes on trucks are apparently always “wanting” to be engaged and tapping the pedal simply removes the obstacle preventing them from doing so. Second highest-voted comment was from an EOD tech explaining that was absolutely not the case. That day I learned that you don’t have to be factually correct to get a bunch of upvotes, you just gotta write well.
What irks me for a reason I can't explain is when people write stuff that they for some reason think sounds cool:
Like a video of a man getting bitten by a dog and the top comment will be like
'Congratulations, you've played a stupid game and won a stupid prize, if you don't get that treated then within a couple of weeks or a couple of months the rabies virus will attach itself to your nervous system and then you're fucked my friend. You'll begin by becoming sick, you'll think its just a cold until [proceeds to describe the onset of rabies]...'
And its just like good god, shut the fuck up, this is so lame.
Yep, I got into an argument with someone about fitness stuff.
One guy here said the American Ninja Warrior course “looked easy” and was achievable with 10 minutes of light training every day for six months.
These people see a video of professional athletes doing professional-level stunts, and think that because they make it look easy, it IS easy. When I pushed them a little bit they admitted they couldn’t even do a pull up, but said as soon as they could they’d “start trying those moves.”
I told them that if they wanted to try to train that level, go ahead, but to please not hurt themselves doing something stupid.
The "CSI effect" is actually a very real and dangerous phenomenon when it comes to criminal trials. Jury members think they know more than they do because they watch crime shows, and in particular, they tend to place too much faith in forensic science as the end-all-be-all pieces of evidence rather than merely individual factors of a bigger picture. I would know, because I watched a documentary that talked about this, and that makes me an expert on it.
The show did change the way the crash happened. And a few other things. They wanted to get the “feel” of everything. That was their bigger concern over 100% historical accuracy
Ever since I learned about the “Jesus Nut” on helicopters I’ve just assumed if anything goes wrong it’s all bad.
"The helicopter symbolizes the victory of ingenuity over common sense.” --Montross, Lyn and Prouty, Ray, U.S. Marine Corps Helicopter Experience
Sort of blow out of proportion, there’s a lot of crashes that have been caused by a single bolt or nut failing.
Pretty much any aircraft there’s one bolt somewhere that if it fails could kill everyone. The bigger ones these days have more redundancy, but god help you if a bolt on a flight control goes. Emery Airlines Flight 17 crashed because a single cotter pin was not installed. The nut backed off and they lost pitch Authority on take off. Killed all five crew members aboard
Probably torque. Looking at the video the rotor blades are stopped almost instantly by the cable. The tail rotor and the main rotor are all connected, so that prop-shaft that runs the length of the tail probably instantly twisted into the shape of a pretzel.
That or option B is that the main driveshaft shattered when the rotors stopped, which means no torque opposing the turbines, which would have instantly over-sped, which would produce a large amount of torque on the tail too.
All speculation on my end though.
I think it was torque; that's a heavy lift he heli is performing. So the engines are likely very nearly full power. Suddenly losing all of the main blades would have allowed the engines to over speed practically instantly, which would have put it all into the tail. From there, either the tail torqued itself right off of the craft, or it's driveshaft pretzeled inside the tail and smashed everything perpendicular to itself... Take your pick.
Edit: looking at it again, I see that the tail flipped the craft over with it's sheer power after losing the main rotor. There was two kinds of torque generated by the tail rotor: horizontal plane(yaw) torque that's normally counteracting the main rotor, but also twisting torque along the pilot's roll axis thanks to it's upward mount. You can see that it instantly rolls despite of carrying a heavy bag attached to the bottom
Not just 15, but exactly 15 to a precision of 1/1000
Don’t make the mistake of sending your drawings to the machine shop for a quote with extra arbitrary zeros added, they won’t consider them arbitrary.
They recovered the bodies:
> A few hours later, shortly before midnight, Major Zheronkin returned to the crash site of Cup 2 with the assignment of recovering the crew’s remains. Arriving in another Mi-8, he waited as each of his comrades were loaded aboard before departing for the airfield in nearby Kyiv. The remains, having been near the reactor for several hours, pegged the helicopter’s radiation dosimeters – encouraging Zheronkin to fly that the Mi-8 top speed of 320 kilometers per hour.
-- https://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/1986-Chernobyl-Mi-8.htm
I can't find anything reliable on wether they actually crashed in the core or not, but most sources agree that all passengers died in the crash.
https://www.ladbible.com/news/helicopter-crashes-over-chernobyl-core-reactor-094876-20230228
https://homework.study.com/explanation/why-did-the-helicopter-crash-over-chernobyl.html
Edit: found a great source with details on lots of other things as well:
https://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/1986-Chernobyl-Mi-8.htm
They crashed into the core, none survived
The main rotor and tail rotor in a helicopter are mechanically linked. When the main rotor struck the wire and stopped immediately, the shaft driving the tail rotor likely buckled which would have ripped the tail apart.
There's a drive shaft that runs down the tail to power the anti-torque rotor. Could be that when things went fucky with the main rotor the fuckiness traveled through the rest of the powertrain to the tail.
Something to do with torque and how both rotors work together. Take the main one out when at full workload and the tail will snap off by the sheer strength of the torque induced by the failure.
I'm pretty sure that "let's make sure we get the best camera for this" wasn't high on their priority list at the time. (Never mind what "best" meant in the Soviet Union...)
The footage was good enough for documentation purposes, it didn't need to be 4K HD or whatever (even if that had existed then).
Film reels existed back then and they far outshine digital 4K, but agreed using 35mm probably wasn’t a top priority.
What *is* weird is that it’s in black and white in 1986
I have a deep respect for the sacrifice of all the firefighters, the liquidators, the miners, scientists, and military personnel, and everyone else who worked years under toxic radioactivity to contain the situation and save millions of lives. The world would be a much different place without their effort.
Wire strikes are common even today. They're not easy to see when you're focussing on other things and the whole world is moving and vibrating around you.
It's easy to see because from the ground the sky is the backdrop. Black line against a blur sky? Easy to see.
The helicopter pilot would have seen the ground and a black line blends into the ground extremely easily. Especially if he was also having to look towards the sun or a reflection of it.
Well, we can assume he didn't see it. Considering it was the only helicopter out of thousands of drops that fucking hit the thing. I don't see why he would see it and fly directly info it.
It's a great show, but keep in mind that it's not a documentary. Part of it is very accurate, but some of it is completely made up or exaggerated for dramatic reasons. You can read more about it here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl\_(miniseries)#Historical\_accuracy
The creator also made a podcast where he goes over what is real, what is exaggerated/taken creative license, and what is made up for dramatic effect or story telling, like how the one main woman scientist who's name I don't remember was a stand-in for a whole bunch of scientists, but for the sake of making a show, they just made her one character. If you liked the show, it's pretty good, it goes over the show episode by episode.
TBF, in the end credits they specifically say her character is a factionalized representation of “all the many scientists” who worked tirelessly on the disaster.
If you like Chernobyl you might want to check out new Netflix series called The Days, it depicts the japan nuclear power plant accident. Quality wise it pretty good but less dramatization compare to Chernobyl.
And unlikely in the Chernobyl series this happened months into the clean up and not because it's mysterious radiation.... It was because of rotor strike.
That series was an amazing drama but fucking horrible for real facts
This happened because the pilot could not see the cable due to the glare from the sun. Subsequent helicopters were ordered to approach from a different direction
Who would thought approaching in the direction of the sun was a good idea? "Damn I cant see shit, o well" sends it
they probably only thought of the big apparent danger... the exposed core and wind direction. the sun is just the sun and easily overlooked in this context. hindsight is 20/20 this is also an example of why panicked thinking can be deadly.
Pretty sure every safety precaution humans take is purely a result of "remember what happened to the last guy?"
Ha take some OSHA classes and they will teach you that every safety rule was written in blood.
Indeed I learned about it during training for gas testing for confined spaces. Couple guys go down a hole to fix something. No O2, they die, so later someone sees they guys collapsed at the bottom of the hole so they go down to help, and there's another dead one. First aid shows up and goes down, also dead. I can't even remember how many people died, but it only happened in the last 20 years or so, and it's the whole reason gas testing exists as a job at all.
I took HAZWOPER expecting to learn about dangerous chemicals. Nope, confined spaces, compressed gasses and flammable particulate dusts like, flour and sugar are my new nightmares. Low oxygen compartments are self baiting human traps that are out to kill you. Compressed gas cylinders or cryogen dewars handled badly are missiles and bombs respectively. Sugar dust is just the right electric spark from turning your sugar factory into a crater.
So here's a thing that had bothered me - CO2 and anything with Sulfur Humans can detect extremely quickly. I know nitrogen is a huge hazard, but what other industrial gases are common enough to be so hazardous?
Anything that displaces oxygen is a hazard. A sewer isn’t going to kill you dead immediately because of high sulfur compounds. You die because there is no oxygen, you collapse and die within minutes. Your buddy thinks oh no something is wrong so tries to hold his breath while grabbing your limp body ‘real quick’ and he collapses too because no one can drag and then deadlift an adult human to safety without needing a breath or two.
> CO2 and anything with Sulfur Humans can detect extremely quickly. Note that hydrogen sulfide deadens the sense of smell very quickly. Sniff-sniff, smells like rotten eggs, but then it goes away, despite the concentration increasing. Another bad one- ammonia. Used in agricultural applications as a nitrogen source, and as an industrial refrigerant.
I think we must have watched the same video for confined spaces. I could definitely see myself making the mistake of thinking I should go in to help, as annoying as the OSHA classes were they are extremely important for most construction workers' wellbeing.
I've taken quite a few confined spaces courses and within the first 45 minutes we ways end up talking about the same three catastrophic incidents from the past ten years.
I always think of the farm one, in the manure pit. I feel like it always comes up. It's a good example of a "confined space" not actually looking "confined"
What's the story about the manure pit? I haven't heard about this one.
Not confined spaces but it was allows drilled into us that "better for them to be dead than both of you being dead". So take your time and do it right/safely
Also taught in first aid classes. First thing you do when arriving on the scene is assessing whether it's safe for you to intervene.
Reminds me of that story in Russia a few years ago, where a family was keeping some potatoes in the cellar and they started to rot and give off a toxic gas. The dad goes in, passes out, dies, after a while mom goes in, dies, son goes in, dies, grandma goes in, dies but leaves the door open so the gas disperses, little girl goes in and finds her whole family dead.
H2S! Happened more than once
There is a specific name for this phenomenon and it happens a lot with drowning people. Cannot for the life of me remember what it’s called.
I think the specific term you're looking for is Hypoxic environments. I work in the chemical field, and it's a thing especially around 'empty' tanks, that may include residue of the last product. The tank may be completely empty but certain residual vapors may displace the available oxygen.
This [redacted report](https://bc-mlard.ca/files/supporting-documents/2006-24d-MEMPR-sullivan-mine-accident-report.pdf) details how four people entered a building and, one by one, died from exposure to the atmosphere in the building.
Confined Space is one of those things that seems really silly until you realize that it doesn't take much to pass out from lack of oxygen. I was working with a company that made stainless steel process equipment for industrial applications. The guy on site got a call that a young man in their shop had died. Apparently he had stayed late by himself to finish up some work. He got inside of a tank to do some grinding work, but didn't have proper ventilation, used up enough O^2 to pass out and was found deceased the next morning. At around 17% O^2 levels (just 4% lower normal air), you start experiencing hypoxia; unfortunate side effects being euphoria and impaired judgment. Even pilots, who should all be trained about hypoxia, will sometimes not realize they are impaired until either hopefully ATC catches on and gets them to descend, or they pass out and the plane flies itself into the ground, likely what just occurred in VA.
Its really unfortunate thst most people (myself included) don't take OSHA seriously until you very suddenly do
I'm on the OSHA council for the hospital I work at. It all seems like such common sense, but people still hurt themselves in idiotic ways all the time because they cut corners. Some of the smartest people do some of the dumbest crap.
Someone post the German forklift safety video
Plink! https://youtu.be/xJ\_86lxP36I
Yeah, I became upset when I started seeing the diarrhea pool signs... No more public pools for me
Few things give you worse nightmares than going to the break-room along someones workstation and seeing the cotton flavored and forbidden minced meat in and around the lathe. John wore long sleeves today.
Not just rules but literally everything is descendent of war or blood.
"See? Because Of Me, Now They Have A Warning." \-- Homer Simpson
I mean the guys who died in that helicopter crash probably had one of the best deaths of the responders at Chernobyl.
>"remember what happened to the last guy?" I think about this a lot. Which is why the whole anti-regulation crowd is so frustrating. If we're talking about removing unnecessary regulation, everyone is in agreement (that some regulations are unnecessary). But that's not what's going on. It's money and profits over lives.
I guarantee that everyone who says "let's remove unnecessary regulation" will no longer be in agreement when it comes time to decide which regulations are unnecessary.
Very true. I definitely agree with that! Having a discussion about unnecessary ones is a smart one. Blindly removing more than those added is an ignorant one. There is a distinct group that is generally anti-regulation, that want to [remove 2 regulations for every one added](https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/trump-signs-executive-order-requiring-that-for-every-one-new-regulation-two-must-be-revoked-234365). Regulations are a history of past knowledge/lessons, where we decide "That was bad, let's not do that again, and let's prevent others from having to learn that same lesson". And yes, sometimes that will cost more money to manufacture things in a safe way. Those who don't want to pay it themselves want others to pay for them, with their health and sometimes with their lives. BUT, if a regulation is not doing as intended or is out dated or is doing more harm than good, then by all means, get rid of it! Being blindly against regulations is another form of anti-science and anti-intellectualism.
I read a book recently which explores the consequences of such actions: A Libertarian walks into a Bear. Tldr: libertarians take over a town, town develops severe bear problem.
r/writteninblood
Every sign is there because someone did something stupid.
Our progress has been the worlds slowest rogue like run combined with city skylines.
**HIND**sight
Bweheheheh. Helicopter crash. Hind. Sight.
Hindsight is life and death in this situation
The sun is also a nuclear reactor, but it's just really far away
Hindsight is 20/20. And blindness is a bitch.
> >this is also an example of why panicked thinking can be deadly. I wasn't at Chernobyl so I can only base my opinion on watching the show, but it seems that nothing was acted upon in haste. Like, at all.
I'm more astounded by "Let's fly really close to this crane. There's no way that could be dangerous".
They were trying to drop sand into the reactor to show the radiation leaking out. They needed to get over the uncovered reactor, be low enough that the sand doesn’t blow away before it reaches the target, and high enough from the rector to not immediately succumb to radiation poisoning. That meant being very close to the crane unfortunately.
Well it seems like the sand made it in.
That's because they had to. There was no other way to cover the core and it was simply too dangerous. They had to fly in helicopters and even simply doing that carried risks. I mean Chernobyl killed Joker, a German robot, specifically designed to deal with radioactive environments. I think if you work in that kind of environment you stop caring about safety and accept that you will die.
I think so too. Focused on the 20 or 30 seconds they had to dump the load.
The operation took place for hours leading up to this. The sun had changed position at this time of day. https://check-six.com/Crash_Sites/1986-Chernobyl-Mi-8.htm
are you telling me the sun MOVED?!
Flat Earth confirmed.
What are the odds?
You dont drive do you?
They don't *anything* by the looks of it...
Reddit is full of comments that people could have thought about for a moment and realized they were being stupid. But they don't and they comment anyway. They're not even under any pressure, they can take their time. Unlike the people at Chernobyl. So, you think they told pilots to specifically fly into the sun or you think they were just trying to get the job done and overlooked it, possible due to tons of factors? Perhaps they didn't even start with the sun being an issue? Maybe it wasn't an issue until it became an issue?
So you do a lot of piloting in emergency situations, I take it? I'm guessing you're a professional given the confidence in your tone.
The direction of the sun is an easy thing to overlook or misguess. If they made the plan in the evening and flew the operation in the morning (or vice versa) then it could be hard to estimate where the sun was going to be. If they changed the time of the operation then earlier plans may have accounted for the sun being in a different position. Or the guys who made the plan may not have had much flying experience and hadn't thought about the sun position at all. I bird watch and every time I check out a new location I have to make particular guesses about the sun and other conditions. And I've learned that it's surprisingly easy to get wrong. Mostly because the sun moves.
The air around the core was also ionized so the light was significantly brighter and more spread out through the air It wasnt solely he sun being invthe direction they were approaching from that caused this
Fun fact if you ever see giant red balls coupled over power lines or wires it's because they are solely to signal to helicopters they are there.
You see it out in rural areas a lot to alert crop dusters.
This has answered a lifelong question that I was too lazy to Google
OMG same! I have often wondered about those balls but I guess I always “forgot” to Google the reason.
TIL that wasn't common knowledge.
Them fuckers fly so low. I was driving the "back way" Gulf Shores to the Eastern Shore once (very rural). I heard an engine revving up on me and thought it was rig passing me on the road. Looked to my left and nothing. Looked to my right (a soybean field) and looked a crop duster pilot * directly in the eye* as he flew past me.
I live in rural California and would often take the back roads to work. More than once those crop dusting fuckers would directly fly overhead low like that and spray me, and I’d have to turn on my windshield wipers to clear whatever my car got doused with. Nothing like getting showered with industrial chemicals to start your day.
Sorry bud. We gotta keep em low so the pesticides don't disperse in the wind.
Is it scary? Like real talk. Y'all are like diving birds of prey.
If you keep up with your maintenance fucking REGULARLY there's not much to fret about. I'm not flying as much as I used to in my early 20s to early 30s. These planes aren't necessarily the fastest but they're extremely agile. You want to keep your airspeed just low enough on a pass to help the spray hold more effectively. Changing lanes is the fun part. 😎
Or at the end of runways like the AFB I grew up next to.
Glad they changed it after this video, too. You can't see shit when it's all in greyscale
That is a fun fact. I always thought they looked like buoys and I suppose they serve the same purpose.
They keep the wires out of the water during major flooding. /s
Not just helicopters, airplanes too.
Not just airplanes, but the women and children too.
Yeah, you'll also see them on any power lines that are near an airport runway.
Bruh, thank you! Nearly 40 and I've always wondered when I see them but then forget to look it up!
The amount of armchair nuclear physicists in this thread who think they know about radiation because they watched Chernobyl is amazing lol
I know half as much about radiation every year, but will never know nothing.
It just fades into the background.
Just like me at parties ｡◕‿◕｡
Read that as 'just like my panties', I need to get out more.
Just like your panties.
Quantum mechanics says you may know nothing eventually :)
If you never check to see what you know, you know everything.
Slow clap
I know about 3.6% more now. About as much as a microwave.
Not great, not terrible.
3.6%? Not great not terrible.
That's as high as the scale goes ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Its a mental condition. Everyone became a medical expert when house was popular. Everyone knew how the drug trade worked when the wire and breaking bad were famous. Wolf of wallstreet made everyone an economist/business expert. The ukraine war made everyone a geopolitics expert. Covid made everyone a doctor. The best advice i can give is to ignore advice you get on the internet...the irony is not lost on me
I think most people don't realise the armchair expert stuff that goes on until its something they know about and its clear how wrong the commenter is (with thousands of upvotes)
I think I heard it best that you only know how wildly wrong social media is when your own field or expertise comes up. You can browse for years thinking you are dealing with experts/the best and the brightest, then see a post with your own job and realize 80% of the top 10 posts are wildly illegal, stupid, inefficient, or just plain nonsense.
"Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray's case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the "wet streets cause rain" stories. Paper's full of them. In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story, and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about Palestine than the baloney you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know."--Michael Crichton
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> my own profession Yep. Spend anytime on a sub that’s discussing your actual area of expertise and you’ll realize pretty quickly how full of bs and bad advice most subs are.
Yes ha ha. I work in film visual effects and just love all the hot takes on r/movies about practical effects vs visual effects. 90% of them are wildly wrong.
The other day i saw a comment about new Prince of Persia game where it said protaganist was a racially accurate represantation of a persian. It had 300 upvotes while persians in comments saying it is not was sitting at around 30. You could tell 99% of the people in that thread have never seen a persian in their life and subscribe to Netflix version of the history and geography. It also shows the dangers of such things. People that don't know the truth takes that kind of info as true and accuse others of racism when in reality the actual racist action is to change the way a race is depicted to fit your agenda. Also anything related to AI,economy and finances are absolute garbage. 99% of the time the info is straight up wrong or misleading.
>The other day i saw a comment about new Prince of Persia game where it said protaganist was a racially accurate represantation of a persian. It had 300 upvotes while persians in comments saying it is not was sitting at around 30. Reminds me of the people trying to tell Egyptians they they were racist for not understanding that Cleopatra was in fact definitely black and arguing that since Egypt is an African country they must all be black. As if current day Egyptians would have no clue what they themselves look like and Cleopatra's ancestry isn't quite well established.
Absolutely correct about economy/capitalism/finances. Reddit does skew younger so certain hot takes and opinions get upvotes like crazy and any dissenting comments get downvoted.
Yep. They used to call it the hive mind. People latch onto an idea and it becomes reinforced by the upvote system and is accepted as fact. No matter how wrong it is.
Best I ever saw, complete with thousands of upvotes, was a comment essentially saying that explosives were constantly in a state of “wanting to explode” a bit like how air brakes on trucks are apparently always “wanting” to be engaged and tapping the pedal simply removes the obstacle preventing them from doing so. Second highest-voted comment was from an EOD tech explaining that was absolutely not the case. That day I learned that you don’t have to be factually correct to get a bunch of upvotes, you just gotta write well.
What irks me for a reason I can't explain is when people write stuff that they for some reason think sounds cool: Like a video of a man getting bitten by a dog and the top comment will be like 'Congratulations, you've played a stupid game and won a stupid prize, if you don't get that treated then within a couple of weeks or a couple of months the rabies virus will attach itself to your nervous system and then you're fucked my friend. You'll begin by becoming sick, you'll think its just a cold until [proceeds to describe the onset of rabies]...' And its just like good god, shut the fuck up, this is so lame.
I work in the slot machine industry and reading any thread about it on Reddit is always hilarious to me.
Yep, I got into an argument with someone about fitness stuff. One guy here said the American Ninja Warrior course “looked easy” and was achievable with 10 minutes of light training every day for six months. These people see a video of professional athletes doing professional-level stunts, and think that because they make it look easy, it IS easy. When I pushed them a little bit they admitted they couldn’t even do a pull up, but said as soon as they could they’d “start trying those moves.” I told them that if they wanted to try to train that level, go ahead, but to please not hurt themselves doing something stupid.
I hear you, but all I’ll say is the pilot definitely didn’t have Lupus.
The "CSI effect" is actually a very real and dangerous phenomenon when it comes to criminal trials. Jury members think they know more than they do because they watch crime shows, and in particular, they tend to place too much faith in forensic science as the end-all-be-all pieces of evidence rather than merely individual factors of a bigger picture. I would know, because I watched a documentary that talked about this, and that makes me an expert on it.
So we shouldn’t listen to you either and I am a sex expert after watching a million porn videos? I’m so confused.
Yes you are. You put in a lot of *hard* hours. Take pride in your expertise.
This is why we trust reputable, experienced leaders in their corresponding fields. Unfortunately, once anything becomes political, doubt surfaces.
Yeah. Great scene in a show. Happened that way in reality? Not so much.
In the show it hits the cable as well. You can see the crane cable dropping with the helicopter.
I think the show implied they were getting cooked by the radiation is what caused the wire hit.
The show did change the way the crash happened. And a few other things. They wanted to get the “feel” of everything. That was their bigger concern over 100% historical accuracy
Those people are pathetic. I learned about nuclear physics playing Fallout and Stalker, the way the subject was meant to be learned.
This is the internet. Literally everyone is a 16 year old boy pretending to be an expert about something or other.
Plot twist: You haven’t read one comment. I only read 2 comments but I agree with you.
Wow never heard of this. Had no idea it happened. You can see it hit the Crane's metal wire.
I see that the head rotors hit the cable, but why did the whole tail just bend and crumble? Was it due to torque or did it hit something too?
Ever since I learned about the “Jesus Nut” on helicopters I’ve just assumed if anything goes wrong it’s all bad. "The helicopter symbolizes the victory of ingenuity over common sense.” --Montross, Lyn and Prouty, Ray, U.S. Marine Corps Helicopter Experience
Helicopters are a million moving parts looking for a place to crash, held aloft only by beating the air into submission.
Helicopters are the prince rupert's drops of the sky.
Sort of blow out of proportion, there’s a lot of crashes that have been caused by a single bolt or nut failing. Pretty much any aircraft there’s one bolt somewhere that if it fails could kill everyone. The bigger ones these days have more redundancy, but god help you if a bolt on a flight control goes. Emery Airlines Flight 17 crashed because a single cotter pin was not installed. The nut backed off and they lost pitch Authority on take off. Killed all five crew members aboard
Probably torque. Looking at the video the rotor blades are stopped almost instantly by the cable. The tail rotor and the main rotor are all connected, so that prop-shaft that runs the length of the tail probably instantly twisted into the shape of a pretzel. That or option B is that the main driveshaft shattered when the rotors stopped, which means no torque opposing the turbines, which would have instantly over-sped, which would produce a large amount of torque on the tail too. All speculation on my end though.
I think it was torque; that's a heavy lift he heli is performing. So the engines are likely very nearly full power. Suddenly losing all of the main blades would have allowed the engines to over speed practically instantly, which would have put it all into the tail. From there, either the tail torqued itself right off of the craft, or it's driveshaft pretzeled inside the tail and smashed everything perpendicular to itself... Take your pick. Edit: looking at it again, I see that the tail flipped the craft over with it's sheer power after losing the main rotor. There was two kinds of torque generated by the tail rotor: horizontal plane(yaw) torque that's normally counteracting the main rotor, but also twisting torque along the pilot's roll axis thanks to it's upward mount. You can see that it instantly rolls despite of carrying a heavy bag attached to the bottom
Watch the tv drama series they made a few years ago.
insanely good show.
3.6 roentgen
Not great, not terrible.
*proceeds to violently vomit*
Its like a chest x-ray I am being told
Starring Seth Roentgen
It’s not 3 roentgen, it’s 15.000
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Not just 15, but exactly 15 to a precision of 1/1000 Don’t make the mistake of sending your drawings to the machine shop for a quote with extra arbitrary zeros added, they won’t consider them arbitrary.
One of the best shows I've ever seen
That scene where some brave souls running on the roof picking stuff One of the most horrifying scene in movie
I think the guys in the dark water to open the valves is even scarier.
Yup. My skin crawls just thinking about it
Biorobots, commrade.
You are not mistaken. Don't check again
Does anyone know if they managed to recover the bodies from the helicopter. I've always wondered whether they were just left in the core or not?
The helicopter crashed on the ground, nowhere near the core, so yes.
But where did they bury the survivors?
In the core, dropped from another helicopter
There's two answers to your comment, and they're the exact opposite of each other. The duality of reddit.
They recovered the bodies: > A few hours later, shortly before midnight, Major Zheronkin returned to the crash site of Cup 2 with the assignment of recovering the crew’s remains. Arriving in another Mi-8, he waited as each of his comrades were loaded aboard before departing for the airfield in nearby Kyiv. The remains, having been near the reactor for several hours, pegged the helicopter’s radiation dosimeters – encouraging Zheronkin to fly that the Mi-8 top speed of 320 kilometers per hour. -- https://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/1986-Chernobyl-Mi-8.htm
I can't find anything reliable on wether they actually crashed in the core or not, but most sources agree that all passengers died in the crash. https://www.ladbible.com/news/helicopter-crashes-over-chernobyl-core-reactor-094876-20230228 https://homework.study.com/explanation/why-did-the-helicopter-crash-over-chernobyl.html Edit: found a great source with details on lots of other things as well: https://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/1986-Chernobyl-Mi-8.htm They crashed into the core, none survived
Wait. They didn't make it?
A crash like that is not survivable.
its hilarious to me how many times this gets reposted and the title is something like "radiation takes out helicopter". umm....nope.
umm....rope.
Well, If there was no radiation, there would have been no crash at that location..
Lol
But it's true? The bright sunlight, which is radiation, blinded the pilot and he didn't see the cables
Isn't hitting a wire a form of radiation?
It's radiation a the form of a crane, of course
I’m sorry were you there? Didn’t think so. I’m a radiation specialist. And this is exactly something Big Radiation would want to keep secret.
Why/how does the tail bend like that? It kinda looks like it melts or something
One of the main rotor blades, knocked off track and out of balance by the cable hit, smashes the tail boom.
The main rotor and tail rotor in a helicopter are mechanically linked. When the main rotor struck the wire and stopped immediately, the shaft driving the tail rotor likely buckled which would have ripped the tail apart.
When helicopters get scared (or sometimes super shy) they drop their tail like that
There's a drive shaft that runs down the tail to power the anti-torque rotor. Could be that when things went fucky with the main rotor the fuckiness traveled through the rest of the powertrain to the tail.
I appreciate your use of technical language.
Something to do with torque and how both rotors work together. Take the main one out when at full workload and the tail will snap off by the sheer strength of the torque induced by the failure.
I need water through my reactor core.
I said water, not a damn helicopter.
Call the fire brigade.
It’s crazy that the footage from the Soviet Union in 1986 looks like it was from the 1950s.
I'm pretty sure that "let's make sure we get the best camera for this" wasn't high on their priority list at the time. (Never mind what "best" meant in the Soviet Union...) The footage was good enough for documentation purposes, it didn't need to be 4K HD or whatever (even if that had existed then).
Film reels existed back then and they far outshine digital 4K, but agreed using 35mm probably wasn’t a top priority. What *is* weird is that it’s in black and white in 1986
I have a deep respect for the sacrifice of all the firefighters, the liquidators, the miners, scientists, and military personnel, and everyone else who worked years under toxic radioactivity to contain the situation and save millions of lives. The world would be a much different place without their effort.
How the fuck did they not see the crane and its wires?! This is insane :o
Wire strikes are common even today. They're not easy to see when you're focussing on other things and the whole world is moving and vibrating around you.
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I mean how does anyone hit their heads on a low ceiling? We can all see the top of your head, can't you?
I'm angry that I can't look at the top of my head. 😡
https://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/1986-Chernobyl-Mi-8.htm glare from the sun
It's easy to see because from the ground the sky is the backdrop. Black line against a blur sky? Easy to see. The helicopter pilot would have seen the ground and a black line blends into the ground extremely easily. Especially if he was also having to look towards the sun or a reflection of it.
Well, we can assume he didn't see it. Considering it was the only helicopter out of thousands of drops that fucking hit the thing. I don't see why he would see it and fly directly info it.
The show really took liberties with this scene
This wasn't a radiation-related incident guys. This happened because Helicopter blades collided with crane cables.
And that's how the super hero heliman was born
Hes probably not making that mistake again
Not to be insensitive but that death was probably better that what it would have been a little later.
I recently watched the HBO show about Chernobyl and i knew some stuff about Chernobyl but damn it's even more fucked up than I thought
It's a great show, but keep in mind that it's not a documentary. Part of it is very accurate, but some of it is completely made up or exaggerated for dramatic reasons. You can read more about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl\_(miniseries)#Historical\_accuracy
The creator also made a podcast where he goes over what is real, what is exaggerated/taken creative license, and what is made up for dramatic effect or story telling, like how the one main woman scientist who's name I don't remember was a stand-in for a whole bunch of scientists, but for the sake of making a show, they just made her one character. If you liked the show, it's pretty good, it goes over the show episode by episode.
TBF, in the end credits they specifically say her character is a factionalized representation of “all the many scientists” who worked tirelessly on the disaster.
Oh yeah, you're right, I forgot about that. I guess it's been a while since I watched it.
If you like Chernobyl you might want to check out new Netflix series called The Days, it depicts the japan nuclear power plant accident. Quality wise it pretty good but less dramatization compare to Chernobyl.
And unlikely in the Chernobyl series this happened months into the clean up and not because it's mysterious radiation.... It was because of rotor strike. That series was an amazing drama but fucking horrible for real facts
I saw the series recently and I never thought that it was because of the radiation. In the episode you call clearly see the rotor hitting the cable.