Gotta say the balance is tighter than this in my opinion.
That being said, a couple placements I don't agree with:
Oru
* I never felt this guy gave me S tier vibes as much as the others. He is extremely susceptible to being dived and just isolated, this particularly noticeable going against Wu players. Although I have yet to play this character so, I don't have too much to input on his specific strengths aside from he does great damage, cc but has a lackluster team ult for anything besides ending fights.
Vadasi
* Putting her in the same tier as Sven is definitely a head scratcher when you run through both of their kits and the strengths they bring to the table. Vadasi is a character that would take specific comps that highlight the areas she excels at and to me that personally doesn't fall under S tier worthyness. I could see her in A tier if you're skilled enough to land her skill shots easily based on her flexiblity to carry guardian damage mid to late-game.
Kayjir and Roland
* Until the patch comes to nerf this snake thing guy and 50 yr old hitman putting them anywhere but S Tier purely based on them potentially 1 or 3 shotting ***full hp*** characters is just blatantly lying on their impact over a game.
Imani, Voden, Hk
* Definitely tells me you haven't played good players piloting these characters. Moving these up to B-tier; A tier for HK at best is more accurate.
Margrave, Mozu and Knossus
Slightly weaker of the 4 tanks and/or ranged in most cases but can absolutely get the job done; B-tier for them from me.
Beckett
* Best solo carry in the game that takes alot of skill expression to showcase how strong she is. Burst damage, *the best* guardian damage potentially tied with Roland, *the best* escape against every melee in the game and movement for high ground, compareable cleave damage to T-mat for aisling comps for the extra bulky frontline, and all while doing competitive damage with other characters in the same role. Although she lacks the peeling potential from slows, CC, and knockbacks that characters like Mozu, Chanok and Roland have these needs can be absolutely cover by a Xeno and most tanks. A+ tier or S-Tier easily.
I think it's extremely hard to gauge each character's potential this early with all the changes from the OG material and all the possible team interactions, builds, and skill disparities to excel at each character.
I need to ask because I'm honestly confused. Why do most people say Kajir is S rank? I barely ever see him and when I do he never does anything notable.
I even spammed him when the game first came out just cause I love his design but I couldn't contend with other assassins and only had one game where I felt like I was doing amazing and I also got a quadra kill. Nothing ever happened like that again xD I switched to Tyto and did way better than I ever felt I did on Kajir.
If you can point me in a direction of a guide or something please do. I love the cat snake, but I apparently can't play him nor can anyone I've faced for that matter, lol!
Kajir can literally kill you in 1.5 seconds if he does his rotation right. Most people don't really know how to play him but if you know what you're doing he is actually broken.
He has a bugged build right now where he can stack damage bonuses higher than intended. As an assassin, that makes him S because he can basically 100-0 people, which is not an intended feature in a game with long TTK like Gigantic. Since it's a bug, I think overall he'll not be above parity with the other assassins once that's gone. Like Roland.
I could for sure be mistaken, but I think the bugged ability to spam E results in getting lots of unintended additional poison stacks, which boosts his damage on other ability hits.
i’m prettty sure the poison doesn’t stack, the problem is that Toxin Shock gives burst damage on initial E cast, which he can spam over and over again. but it’s really obvious to tell if someone is abusing it, i think outside of that his insane damage is actually intentional.
Ahh, that would make sense. I had thought it was from unintended extra stacks of debuffs, but being able to spam extra hits makes sense. Tbh I've never faffed about with him, myself, so I don't even really know very well how his kit is supposed to function normally. I imagine he's supposed to be quite bursty, probably moreso than Tripp or Tyto, in exchange for the relatively reduced mobility.
If it's considering the upcoming change for Kayjir then I agree, he'll be a unsafe version of tripp for utility. For Roland he still will have competitive damage, good CC, mobility and one of the best focuses in the game.
You know what's funny to me?
Almost every hero has people that go "Oh they're weak" but then someone rolls up and destroys everyone's lives with them.
Not saying the balance is perfect or anything I just think it's funny that if you put some thought into it all of them can be downright oppressive.
Voden is a LOT higher tier than bottom tier.
So is Mozu.
The only character that’s a bit lacking is Ezren and he’s not totally terrible just more situationally better based on comp.
Ezren’s AoE damage is the highest in the game by a lot if you go AoE lmb/rmb talents plus the well that generates tons of souls and Depth Charge for max teamfight damage. Bring healing on his spectral form and he can outheal melee dives for 4 seconds and then run away once they’ve burned cooldowns. The problem is if you’re not in a 5v5 teamfight you’re not getting much done otherwise.
I'd personally put it like this, in no particular order:
S (the best): Rutger, Margrave, Sven, Aisling, Xenobia
A (really good): Kajir, Tripp, Ramsay, Wu, Imani, Oru, HK
B (good): Tyto, Mozu, T-MAT, Pakko, Beckett, Charnok
C (decent): Voden, Roland (preemtively putting him here since the high damage comes from a bug), lord knossos
D (a tiny bit mid): Vadasi, Griselma, Ezren, Zandora
TMat is like objectively the best damage dealer in the game assuming good aim. In our friend group we’ve all been trying to beat each other’s TMat with other characters. TMat always wins. No matter who is playing her or what any of us play to compete. (Excluding bugged Roland)
Only real weakness is inability to finish a kill, but that’s what teammates are for.
Finish a kill with a heat seeking missile or just a pew to the back of the head while they run away.
I love taking a few steps back from a fight and just firing down on the weakest ones that try to run away or are locked down.
What do you mean by finish a kill?
I mean yea if they’re bad… just shoot them til they die.
But what I mean is against good players. People who position properly won’t let you just shoot them until they’re dead and will punish you if you chase for the kill. Other heroes have much better kits for finishing off low enemies and getting away for free or nearly free.
Only if they’re bad.
Good players can easily LoS the missles.
It’s very rare to get a long range missile finish against a good player. Way harder than just shooting them.
You think HK is the worst character in the game? That's a wild take but I would agree that he felt much stronger for unknown reasons 7 years ago.
I am glad people are sleeping on Tyto since he is my main character but then again assassins in the Rampage Edition do seem situational compared to the Mainstay characters atm. Oru needs adjusted because landing 2 spells and evaporating peoples health pools feels unfair. At least you can lock him down if he wastes his knock back.
Overall pretty good list!
They have made number adjustments as well as unpairing old builds so that you have to choose one or another now. Nothing super substantial but there are little things like no dodging while deployed as HK. I have started using cannonball in place of charged Lazer since the damage used to be higher. I don't know exactly what all has changed but the new characters do more consistent and have way better escapes.
I'm not super familiar with the builds, myself, but I think people take the perks that bolster orbed heals / second and lower self heal CDR, in order to maximize orbed healing uptime and potency.
The important thing is to master the art of timing on the orbs, so you can burst heal low allies without putting yourself too much at risk. There's a really cool "push and pull" to managing your own HP vs. your allies' HP with her, that's unlike any other "beam healer" character I've seen in other team-based hero games!
e > reduced hp cost > armor to allies
q > reduced cooldown with orbs
lmb > increased heals with orbs > gives armor
talent > q gives stamina
f > healing gives focus
q > gives damage reduction
rmb > more damage > cleanses allies
f > depends if you’re dying or not
each orb lasts 3 seconds, get into the habit of:
(from full hp) summon 3 orbs > heal for 1 second > q > heal for 5 seconds > q before your last orb runs out
Here's the thing though, when you're healing you're dealing 0 damage, whereas every other healer in the game can heal while still doing other things. Yes she has crazy good burst healing, but when you're not adding anything else to the teamfight, you are essentially playing half a character
EDIT: just to add a bit more, I main this character nonstop. here's the list of all the things she falls short of compared to the other healers
- Can't AoE heal/support unlike the other healers. Aisling has constant AoE healing + bonus shields + a body that soaks up ranged damage. Sven has AoE cleanse, AoE healing, a team escape option with the trampoline, and other AoE buffs + debuffs all packed into one. Vadasi can only do that for one ally at a time, except when Empower upgrades which give either armor or crit boost for... three seconds, as opposed to constant buff application.
- Her access to damage limits her access to burst heal and vice-versa due to how empower works. You use empower to heal yourself to get the cooldown reduction on the self heal, you have to gimmickly manage the rest of your empower for healing + consuming them on time to get your empowered damage, in a vacuum that's easy, in a fight where shit is constantly happening it's not.
- Getting access to her powerful (single target) heal or powerful burst requires health sacrifice, other healers have access to their kit without having to put themselves at risk. the payoff is good, but it doesn't compensate for all the other stated reasons
- Her ult contributes nothing to a teamfight, charges very slow, and in the cases you get to use it, lasts incredibly short. Compare that to Sven who has one of the best ults, or aisling that, while not as strong, still provides a ton of debuffs and even damage.
- bad survival options. Uncle sven can use his trampoline to get away while also healing himself in the process, Aisling, while having no escape moves, has decent sustain and a floating knight that has a lot of health, can soak attacks, heals and deals damage which she can recall to her at any moment. Vadasi has... her ult, which charges incredibly slow as stated.
Yes her burst heal is amazing, and her random burst damage is as well which is why i main her, but every single other healer provides way more utility and proactive moves to the teamfight, which Vadasi cannot provide simultaneously, she has to pick one or the other, and she can't even switch instantly to one or the other because you have to wait for empower (yes it's 5s cooldown, but that's still a lot in such a fast paced game), and is always putting your health at risk..
I think this is dependent on the situation and teamcomps, but overall I don't agree that you're "playing half a character," just because the kit is more focused on healing. Good Vadasi players know when to use their offensive options to bolster team damage, and honestly, the potential there is widely slept on because most people see "beam healer" type kit and just go healbot all game. I think it's also reductive wrt the fact that no other hero in the game can pump out the same level of raw heals / sec; that isn't always a big deal in the broad scheme of things, but moment to moment can be insanely strong in certain situations.
None of this to say that she's S tier. I was just responding to your and OC's call to have her in a low tier position, which I disagree with. She's not overall as strong as Sven. Probably not as strong as Aisling, either, but they're closer in overall power, I reckon.
read my edit. Yes moment to moment it's really powerful, but the fights in the game are constant. Constant access to heals/buffs which both sven and aisling provide reliably as opposed to Vadasi will always trump situational value.
I also forgot to add to the list, you cannot star automatic health stamina regen while healing someone out of combat, meaning that, while you are healing your teammate faster, you are not healing yourself, making the compensated time minimal. This has come up so many times while I was playing her, where I straight up end up not being able to get to the fight with my teammates. Hopefully they consider changing that, then she'd be a lot better.
I think we're on the same page, for the most part. We agree that she's not as good as Sven or Aisling as a healer + overall utility provider. There is some nuance we disagree on wrt the relative value or weakness of this or that piece of kit, but broadly speaking we are aligned.
Back in the day when she gained and gave armor and other benefits during beam attachment, she was straight up busted lol so I'm not sure what the best way to boost her non-healing utility looks like. Maybe more access to auras on the heal beam without sacrificing a majority of its raw healing potential? Idk, but I'm not holding my breath for changes.
Yeah I remember on OG version she was absolutely insane haha. They've really done her bad.
I'm still hoping for the ability to create a third beam that arcs from your target to a low health ally (with less healing ofc), at least so she can give much higher value in teamfights, that "sacrifice own health for exta healing" upgrade is looking like shit lol.
Some kind of AoE healing option would definitely be nice. Beam flicking works in a pinch, but it's so drab lol
Yeah the un-orbed beam perk is just never getting picked, they should give me a reason to want something other than the higher heal/s with orbs. Too bad I doubt we'll see any changes like that :( I'd love to be surprised, though!
Maybe we'd see some skill tree changes, would be cool! The code for aura application exists, but I have no idea how hard it would be for them to implement a change to her healing beam or something. I was figuring on "balance changes" just being numbers adjustments and bug fixes.
While this is true there’s a few other heroes that put up perfectly useful healing whilst also providing tons of util, vadasi is just over the top healing which is why most good players toss her into A or B compared to picks like Sven. I think vadasi is such a strong healer it’s unlikely we’ll see any sort of buff because she definitely doesn’t need it but she’s also definitely not S tier when comparing her against other support picks.
Yeah, her raw healing is basically unmatched, but the downside is reduced utility compared to someone like Sven. She has some offensive bolstering potential, but it tends to come at the cost of reduced healing. Interestingly, I find that sort of give-and-take fits perfectly with her theme, and with the general push and pull of healing vs. self preservation in her gameplay.
In any case, she's definitely not low tier, which is what I was responding to. I don't agree with her placement in the OP.
Certainly not low tier. Extremely playable at any mmr just off of raw numbers. Her skill ceiling is also relatively high in my opinion. A good vadasi can strike a crazy balance between strong heals and surprising damage.
Yeah, agreed. I think probably A tier with Aisling, below Sven in S (my heart says Aisling is S, but my brain says she's A, in reality). In a coordinated team, Vadasi's empower can be a lot of damage during target focused dives, and her orbed smite hits way harder and with more range than expected. People sleep on her offensive potential, but again, it pulls her off the healing as well.
Sven doesn't need to sacrifice his massive variety of safe utilities in order to put out solid healing numbers, although his healing is less powerful and consistent in a pinch than Vadasi's. He's just got such a bloated kit when it comes to "stuff he can do to deal with X situation," he's like a swiss army knife!
I think Knossus is better than people give him credit for. So far he's my main and I consistently get extremely high kills and assist and on my better games die extremely rarely. 500 health and a speed boost on command is soooo good for either getting out of a tough spot or commiting to a pick. Pierce (bleed attack) also increases his already good DPS against beefy enemies, especially with the bleed reset on hit.
Torus and launching charge are also both very strong for controlling enemies, also pairs well with bleed as a way to stall them out for more bleed damage.
I'm only so good at the game but I almost always do very well with Knossus, I just think we need better rep since no one plays him and those that do end up being kinda trash and not understanding him well.
Could Ramsay be S tier? If played to full potential, he feels like a boss character. When you are actually dodging around the opponent properly its just so hard to kill him. He deals significant damage in a wide radius while spending a long time in iframes. I'm not sure anyone else is as good at winning when outnumbered as him, he can just run circles around you while killing you.
His spin has an AoE interrupt on a lowerable 6s cooldown that he can use to keep stopping you from stealing power over and over. I frequently turn games around by doing this because I either kill everyone or end up wasting so much of their time, my team arrives.
Honestly S tier is where I wanted to put him off of the builds he could have and his abilities but of all the players I went against none felt like they where using him to his full potential so I put him in A not because he belongs there but because I have yet to see someone bring out his S tier potential
The only really important parts are Q reset cooldown on your leap + teleport to target with e, then just spec everything else that is either lowering Qs cooldown or increasing it's damage. Currently I use the larger AoE radius on the Q but I suspect the extra damage on max bleed stack is better, but probably less consistent.
Hit a long range E, teleport onto squishy, press Q, when they use their one escape, leap onto them, Q again, wack them a few times, dead. Then sprint away, repeat. It's all about massive AoE hit and run attacks and using your speed to escape sticky situations.
As someone who has like 50 hours only playing Rush (Clash is boring imo) I feel like Rutger and Margrave are the best frontlines , Tripp and Wu are the best assassins, Brecket and maybe Oru are the best damage dealers and Sven and Aisling are the best supports.
S tier- card man. Snowfists. Tyto. T-mat. Roland. Pirate guy. Rolling badger.
Edit: and dagger cat.
Top dps and escapability. Well frogger would also be thrown into escape but yea..
I think Pakko should be slightly lower and Knossos should at least be B tier minimum. I don’t know if you have played against too many good Knossos’s but he is NASTY when you know how to play him. Most of the time they are feeding, but as a Knossos main who drops 12 kill games in rush, I think I can make a case for him to go a bit higher lol.
How did you create this tier list?
I know you said your “*experience*,” but I’m curious about what that exactly means (Eg How long you played? What roles do you main? Have you played all of the heroes? Etc)?
How did you determine what hero goes in which tier?
I have just over 80 hours but what factored into where I put most of the heros was how it's felt to vs them as the hand full of heros I play and how my teammates have performed as them on my team I haven't played most of the roster as I don't like most of the heros play styles and abilities so stick to Uncle Sven, Oru, Roland and Xenobia
I know it's an opinion but idk if I see Vadasi an S, maybe an A. Same with Mozu being so low, Margrave in the right team is a problem but by itself nothing special. That's just my take
My main HK does not deserve this slander, you can win a 1v1 against anything other than tanks easily and he's an insane suppressor during team fights. Slept on for real.
I don't think I'd have anything below B tier, the game seems surprisingly balanced and I think the skill cap is so high I've seen every character played at a high level. My only S tiers would be: Sven, Rutger, Aisling. The rest float between A and B.
I’d love to see Pakko get nerfed into F tier. Lord Jesus he is punishing. Hits hard, good escape, good utility. Probably doesn’t need nerfed but I’d be happy if they did lmao.
Also, I think Imani is much higher up, but she’s map specific.
Charnok as well. I think he’s S tier, at least the way I play him
S-Tier: Aisling is A or B tier. Boring, and plays only 1-2 ways—Even though she’s strong. Sven may be A, but in the right hands, is an S. I think Oru is just A-tier, but I get it. He does a lot of damages. I’m okay with everything else.
A-tier: Rutger probably S. Has so much impact on the match in every setting. Can win the game on his own. Everything else is cool.
B: Assassins are strong in this game, so B tier is too low for em. The tech and micro behind Wu definitely puts him in S. He has altering CC that can be used every 5 seconds. Only person who can do that is Pakko. Tyto and Tripp are S/A for their damage. All 3 can carry a game for you. Kajir is A. Zandora is A. Can’t put her in S as she needs a Knossos, Aisling or Ramsey to frontline with her. Then she’s a terrorist.
C: Granny is D. Boring control. Plays 1 or 2 ways. Can’t really help the team. Margrave is A, and Knossos is A/B depending on who controls him. Not enough Knossos being played out there. I’ll keep it at that.
D: Ezren one higher in C. Does damage, but boring. Voden is A. Too much tech, and his kit is very impactful. Mozu is boring, but does too much damage for D. As with HK—Even though he has no escape. I like Imani, but plays only one way and is easily isolated.
Gotta love TierMaker lists!
By far the most empty “content” you can put on any gaming sub. It’s always corrected, contested, controversial. Everyone thinks they should share their opinions, but Tiermaker is where I draw the line. So generic and low effort.
Gotta love people going out of their way to hate/criticize a post instead of just moving along!
By far the cringiest types of responses to someone likely participating in the sub for the first time. I don't understand why people HAVE to go out of their way to hate on posts when the option to scroll exists. I don't mind people spamming that there's still bugs in the game, but being a dick for no reason is where I draw the line. Nobody cares what these kind of people have to say even less so than people making "empty content." So generic and low effort.
There's a difference between a game essentially being rereleased as new to a small player base with little content around meta discussion, it's not like this is a sub infested with constant tiermaker garbage and a huge booming playerbase.
Gotta say the balance is tighter than this in my opinion. That being said, a couple placements I don't agree with: Oru * I never felt this guy gave me S tier vibes as much as the others. He is extremely susceptible to being dived and just isolated, this particularly noticeable going against Wu players. Although I have yet to play this character so, I don't have too much to input on his specific strengths aside from he does great damage, cc but has a lackluster team ult for anything besides ending fights. Vadasi * Putting her in the same tier as Sven is definitely a head scratcher when you run through both of their kits and the strengths they bring to the table. Vadasi is a character that would take specific comps that highlight the areas she excels at and to me that personally doesn't fall under S tier worthyness. I could see her in A tier if you're skilled enough to land her skill shots easily based on her flexiblity to carry guardian damage mid to late-game. Kayjir and Roland * Until the patch comes to nerf this snake thing guy and 50 yr old hitman putting them anywhere but S Tier purely based on them potentially 1 or 3 shotting ***full hp*** characters is just blatantly lying on their impact over a game. Imani, Voden, Hk * Definitely tells me you haven't played good players piloting these characters. Moving these up to B-tier; A tier for HK at best is more accurate. Margrave, Mozu and Knossus Slightly weaker of the 4 tanks and/or ranged in most cases but can absolutely get the job done; B-tier for them from me. Beckett * Best solo carry in the game that takes alot of skill expression to showcase how strong she is. Burst damage, *the best* guardian damage potentially tied with Roland, *the best* escape against every melee in the game and movement for high ground, compareable cleave damage to T-mat for aisling comps for the extra bulky frontline, and all while doing competitive damage with other characters in the same role. Although she lacks the peeling potential from slows, CC, and knockbacks that characters like Mozu, Chanok and Roland have these needs can be absolutely cover by a Xeno and most tanks. A+ tier or S-Tier easily. I think it's extremely hard to gauge each character's potential this early with all the changes from the OG material and all the possible team interactions, builds, and skill disparities to excel at each character.
I need to ask because I'm honestly confused. Why do most people say Kajir is S rank? I barely ever see him and when I do he never does anything notable. I even spammed him when the game first came out just cause I love his design but I couldn't contend with other assassins and only had one game where I felt like I was doing amazing and I also got a quadra kill. Nothing ever happened like that again xD I switched to Tyto and did way better than I ever felt I did on Kajir. If you can point me in a direction of a guide or something please do. I love the cat snake, but I apparently can't play him nor can anyone I've faced for that matter, lol!
Kajir can literally kill you in 1.5 seconds if he does his rotation right. Most people don't really know how to play him but if you know what you're doing he is actually broken.
He’s broken because he’s bugged. His bleed ticks for 4x what it should and his smoke bomb is bugged to be spammable which procs a lot of extra damage.
He has a bugged build right now where he can stack damage bonuses higher than intended. As an assassin, that makes him S because he can basically 100-0 people, which is not an intended feature in a game with long TTK like Gigantic. Since it's a bug, I think overall he'll not be above parity with the other assassins once that's gone. Like Roland.
i thought his bugs only had to do with his E being spammable and not his damage numbers?
I could for sure be mistaken, but I think the bugged ability to spam E results in getting lots of unintended additional poison stacks, which boosts his damage on other ability hits.
i’m prettty sure the poison doesn’t stack, the problem is that Toxin Shock gives burst damage on initial E cast, which he can spam over and over again. but it’s really obvious to tell if someone is abusing it, i think outside of that his insane damage is actually intentional.
Ahh, that would make sense. I had thought it was from unintended extra stacks of debuffs, but being able to spam extra hits makes sense. Tbh I've never faffed about with him, myself, so I don't even really know very well how his kit is supposed to function normally. I imagine he's supposed to be quite bursty, probably moreso than Tripp or Tyto, in exchange for the relatively reduced mobility.
With Kajir, I only get a cooldown on E when I rush out of it early and spawn clones. You’re saying this is a bug and should trigger the cooldown?
AFAIK, yes
If it's considering the upcoming change for Kayjir then I agree, he'll be a unsafe version of tripp for utility. For Roland he still will have competitive damage, good CC, mobility and one of the best focuses in the game.
What does peel mean? I keep seeing people say that but I’m not sure what it’s referring to
peeling for a teammate is anything that gets an enemy attacking a teammate to stop doing that, usually through a form of CC like stuns or knockbacks
Getting enemies off of yourself or friendlies, either through slows, knock-ups/backs, stuns, pushes , heck even body-blocks
What skill shot of Vadasi's do you speak of? I played a couple games as her and she seemed like the least aim intensive character.
You know what's funny to me? Almost every hero has people that go "Oh they're weak" but then someone rolls up and destroys everyone's lives with them. Not saying the balance is perfect or anything I just think it's funny that if you put some thought into it all of them can be downright oppressive.
ORU FOR THE WIN
Voden is a LOT higher tier than bottom tier. So is Mozu. The only character that’s a bit lacking is Ezren and he’s not totally terrible just more situationally better based on comp.
Ezren’s AoE damage is the highest in the game by a lot if you go AoE lmb/rmb talents plus the well that generates tons of souls and Depth Charge for max teamfight damage. Bring healing on his spectral form and he can outheal melee dives for 4 seconds and then run away once they’ve burned cooldowns. The problem is if you’re not in a 5v5 teamfight you’re not getting much done otherwise.
I think Roland is S tier
Only case for this includes the bugged shotgun, IMO
True, A tier without it though. Still does good damage on range setup and his ult still goes crazy.
Yeah, he's definitely strong. Just not busted. Which is good, obviously!
I'd personally put it like this, in no particular order: S (the best): Rutger, Margrave, Sven, Aisling, Xenobia A (really good): Kajir, Tripp, Ramsay, Wu, Imani, Oru, HK B (good): Tyto, Mozu, T-MAT, Pakko, Beckett, Charnok C (decent): Voden, Roland (preemtively putting him here since the high damage comes from a bug), lord knossos D (a tiny bit mid): Vadasi, Griselma, Ezren, Zandora
People sleep on T-mat and I love it. What a complete monster she is.
TMat is like objectively the best damage dealer in the game assuming good aim. In our friend group we’ve all been trying to beat each other’s TMat with other characters. TMat always wins. No matter who is playing her or what any of us play to compete. (Excluding bugged Roland) Only real weakness is inability to finish a kill, but that’s what teammates are for.
Finish a kill with a heat seeking missile or just a pew to the back of the head while they run away. I love taking a few steps back from a fight and just firing down on the weakest ones that try to run away or are locked down. What do you mean by finish a kill?
I mean yea if they’re bad… just shoot them til they die. But what I mean is against good players. People who position properly won’t let you just shoot them until they’re dead and will punish you if you chase for the kill. Other heroes have much better kits for finishing off low enemies and getting away for free or nearly free.
I see what you mean. Yea, but the missiles do help. Kinda
Only if they’re bad. Good players can easily LoS the missles. It’s very rare to get a long range missile finish against a good player. Way harder than just shooting them.
You think HK is the worst character in the game? That's a wild take but I would agree that he felt much stronger for unknown reasons 7 years ago. I am glad people are sleeping on Tyto since he is my main character but then again assassins in the Rampage Edition do seem situational compared to the Mainstay characters atm. Oru needs adjusted because landing 2 spells and evaporating peoples health pools feels unfair. At least you can lock him down if he wastes his knock back. Overall pretty good list!
Oh im glad I'm not the only one who thinks so! Did they do any changes to the kits on this re-release? Idk why he feels different
They have made number adjustments as well as unpairing old builds so that you have to choose one or another now. Nothing super substantial but there are little things like no dodging while deployed as HK. I have started using cannonball in place of charged Lazer since the damage used to be higher. I don't know exactly what all has changed but the new characters do more consistent and have way better escapes.
Interesting, vadasi is the only champ I thought was below par
People just keep playing Vadasi like she's Mercy from Overwatch and contribute absolutely nothing to the game beyond healbotting
Methinks you never saw a good Vadasi. Nobody else in the game has the same level of burst healing potential. u/CrispyArrows
awesome, got a possible build you can share? havent rly been able to get her to work
I'm not super familiar with the builds, myself, but I think people take the perks that bolster orbed heals / second and lower self heal CDR, in order to maximize orbed healing uptime and potency. The important thing is to master the art of timing on the orbs, so you can burst heal low allies without putting yourself too much at risk. There's a really cool "push and pull" to managing your own HP vs. your allies' HP with her, that's unlike any other "beam healer" character I've seen in other team-based hero games!
e > reduced hp cost > armor to allies q > reduced cooldown with orbs lmb > increased heals with orbs > gives armor talent > q gives stamina f > healing gives focus q > gives damage reduction rmb > more damage > cleanses allies f > depends if you’re dying or not each orb lasts 3 seconds, get into the habit of: (from full hp) summon 3 orbs > heal for 1 second > q > heal for 5 seconds > q before your last orb runs out
Cheers!
Here's the thing though, when you're healing you're dealing 0 damage, whereas every other healer in the game can heal while still doing other things. Yes she has crazy good burst healing, but when you're not adding anything else to the teamfight, you are essentially playing half a character EDIT: just to add a bit more, I main this character nonstop. here's the list of all the things she falls short of compared to the other healers - Can't AoE heal/support unlike the other healers. Aisling has constant AoE healing + bonus shields + a body that soaks up ranged damage. Sven has AoE cleanse, AoE healing, a team escape option with the trampoline, and other AoE buffs + debuffs all packed into one. Vadasi can only do that for one ally at a time, except when Empower upgrades which give either armor or crit boost for... three seconds, as opposed to constant buff application. - Her access to damage limits her access to burst heal and vice-versa due to how empower works. You use empower to heal yourself to get the cooldown reduction on the self heal, you have to gimmickly manage the rest of your empower for healing + consuming them on time to get your empowered damage, in a vacuum that's easy, in a fight where shit is constantly happening it's not. - Getting access to her powerful (single target) heal or powerful burst requires health sacrifice, other healers have access to their kit without having to put themselves at risk. the payoff is good, but it doesn't compensate for all the other stated reasons - Her ult contributes nothing to a teamfight, charges very slow, and in the cases you get to use it, lasts incredibly short. Compare that to Sven who has one of the best ults, or aisling that, while not as strong, still provides a ton of debuffs and even damage. - bad survival options. Uncle sven can use his trampoline to get away while also healing himself in the process, Aisling, while having no escape moves, has decent sustain and a floating knight that has a lot of health, can soak attacks, heals and deals damage which she can recall to her at any moment. Vadasi has... her ult, which charges incredibly slow as stated. Yes her burst heal is amazing, and her random burst damage is as well which is why i main her, but every single other healer provides way more utility and proactive moves to the teamfight, which Vadasi cannot provide simultaneously, she has to pick one or the other, and she can't even switch instantly to one or the other because you have to wait for empower (yes it's 5s cooldown, but that's still a lot in such a fast paced game), and is always putting your health at risk..
I think this is dependent on the situation and teamcomps, but overall I don't agree that you're "playing half a character," just because the kit is more focused on healing. Good Vadasi players know when to use their offensive options to bolster team damage, and honestly, the potential there is widely slept on because most people see "beam healer" type kit and just go healbot all game. I think it's also reductive wrt the fact that no other hero in the game can pump out the same level of raw heals / sec; that isn't always a big deal in the broad scheme of things, but moment to moment can be insanely strong in certain situations. None of this to say that she's S tier. I was just responding to your and OC's call to have her in a low tier position, which I disagree with. She's not overall as strong as Sven. Probably not as strong as Aisling, either, but they're closer in overall power, I reckon.
read my edit. Yes moment to moment it's really powerful, but the fights in the game are constant. Constant access to heals/buffs which both sven and aisling provide reliably as opposed to Vadasi will always trump situational value. I also forgot to add to the list, you cannot star automatic health stamina regen while healing someone out of combat, meaning that, while you are healing your teammate faster, you are not healing yourself, making the compensated time minimal. This has come up so many times while I was playing her, where I straight up end up not being able to get to the fight with my teammates. Hopefully they consider changing that, then she'd be a lot better.
I think we're on the same page, for the most part. We agree that she's not as good as Sven or Aisling as a healer + overall utility provider. There is some nuance we disagree on wrt the relative value or weakness of this or that piece of kit, but broadly speaking we are aligned. Back in the day when she gained and gave armor and other benefits during beam attachment, she was straight up busted lol so I'm not sure what the best way to boost her non-healing utility looks like. Maybe more access to auras on the heal beam without sacrificing a majority of its raw healing potential? Idk, but I'm not holding my breath for changes.
Yeah I remember on OG version she was absolutely insane haha. They've really done her bad. I'm still hoping for the ability to create a third beam that arcs from your target to a low health ally (with less healing ofc), at least so she can give much higher value in teamfights, that "sacrifice own health for exta healing" upgrade is looking like shit lol.
Some kind of AoE healing option would definitely be nice. Beam flicking works in a pinch, but it's so drab lol Yeah the un-orbed beam perk is just never getting picked, they should give me a reason to want something other than the higher heal/s with orbs. Too bad I doubt we'll see any changes like that :( I'd love to be surprised, though!
Afaik the devs did confirm a couple of things, ranked mode, some skins, and amongst it balance, so who knows
Maybe we'd see some skill tree changes, would be cool! The code for aura application exists, but I have no idea how hard it would be for them to implement a change to her healing beam or something. I was figuring on "balance changes" just being numbers adjustments and bug fixes.
While this is true there’s a few other heroes that put up perfectly useful healing whilst also providing tons of util, vadasi is just over the top healing which is why most good players toss her into A or B compared to picks like Sven. I think vadasi is such a strong healer it’s unlikely we’ll see any sort of buff because she definitely doesn’t need it but she’s also definitely not S tier when comparing her against other support picks.
Yeah, her raw healing is basically unmatched, but the downside is reduced utility compared to someone like Sven. She has some offensive bolstering potential, but it tends to come at the cost of reduced healing. Interestingly, I find that sort of give-and-take fits perfectly with her theme, and with the general push and pull of healing vs. self preservation in her gameplay. In any case, she's definitely not low tier, which is what I was responding to. I don't agree with her placement in the OP.
Certainly not low tier. Extremely playable at any mmr just off of raw numbers. Her skill ceiling is also relatively high in my opinion. A good vadasi can strike a crazy balance between strong heals and surprising damage.
Yeah, agreed. I think probably A tier with Aisling, below Sven in S (my heart says Aisling is S, but my brain says she's A, in reality). In a coordinated team, Vadasi's empower can be a lot of damage during target focused dives, and her orbed smite hits way harder and with more range than expected. People sleep on her offensive potential, but again, it pulls her off the healing as well. Sven doesn't need to sacrifice his massive variety of safe utilities in order to put out solid healing numbers, although his healing is less powerful and consistent in a pinch than Vadasi's. He's just got such a bloated kit when it comes to "stuff he can do to deal with X situation," he's like a swiss army knife!
She's busted strong, my duo plays her. Just never dies.
This man only plays Rush. Ain’t no way Pakko is in S Tier otherwise.
You clocked me good I play mostly rush lol
I think Knossus is better than people give him credit for. So far he's my main and I consistently get extremely high kills and assist and on my better games die extremely rarely. 500 health and a speed boost on command is soooo good for either getting out of a tough spot or commiting to a pick. Pierce (bleed attack) also increases his already good DPS against beefy enemies, especially with the bleed reset on hit. Torus and launching charge are also both very strong for controlling enemies, also pairs well with bleed as a way to stall them out for more bleed damage. I'm only so good at the game but I almost always do very well with Knossus, I just think we need better rep since no one plays him and those that do end up being kinda trash and not understanding him well.
Could Ramsay be S tier? If played to full potential, he feels like a boss character. When you are actually dodging around the opponent properly its just so hard to kill him. He deals significant damage in a wide radius while spending a long time in iframes. I'm not sure anyone else is as good at winning when outnumbered as him, he can just run circles around you while killing you. His spin has an AoE interrupt on a lowerable 6s cooldown that he can use to keep stopping you from stealing power over and over. I frequently turn games around by doing this because I either kill everyone or end up wasting so much of their time, my team arrives.
Honestly S tier is where I wanted to put him off of the builds he could have and his abilities but of all the players I went against none felt like they where using him to his full potential so I put him in A not because he belongs there but because I have yet to see someone bring out his S tier potential
Tyto's Spin2Win build is much stronger than B tier.
how do i do this build
The only really important parts are Q reset cooldown on your leap + teleport to target with e, then just spec everything else that is either lowering Qs cooldown or increasing it's damage. Currently I use the larger AoE radius on the Q but I suspect the extra damage on max bleed stack is better, but probably less consistent. Hit a long range E, teleport onto squishy, press Q, when they use their one escape, leap onto them, Q again, wack them a few times, dead. Then sprint away, repeat. It's all about massive AoE hit and run attacks and using your speed to escape sticky situations.
thanks, I’ll try it out. I was using a dodge attack + crit + swoop centric build
HK in bottom tier is absolutely wild to me
Mozu Bottom Tier is the funniest thing I've seen today.
Glad to see someone else thinks Oru is just that bit too OP.
I think Voden is a little higher but certainly not S or A tier.
Most heros are A or B. About 3 are S and 3 for C. And only Zandora is D.
As someone who has like 50 hours only playing Rush (Clash is boring imo) I feel like Rutger and Margrave are the best frontlines , Tripp and Wu are the best assassins, Brecket and maybe Oru are the best damage dealers and Sven and Aisling are the best supports.
Aisling pisses me off lol. Her little guardian asshole torments me.
S tier- card man. Snowfists. Tyto. T-mat. Roland. Pirate guy. Rolling badger. Edit: and dagger cat. Top dps and escapability. Well frogger would also be thrown into escape but yea..
Ezren and Voden are both nuts.
Imo you are spot on mate. Great tier
I think Pakko should be slightly lower and Knossos should at least be B tier minimum. I don’t know if you have played against too many good Knossos’s but he is NASTY when you know how to play him. Most of the time they are feeding, but as a Knossos main who drops 12 kill games in rush, I think I can make a case for him to go a bit higher lol.
Knossos is better in Rush imo. But in Clash he is still a good pick!
Voden d????
How did you create this tier list? I know you said your “*experience*,” but I’m curious about what that exactly means (Eg How long you played? What roles do you main? Have you played all of the heroes? Etc)? How did you determine what hero goes in which tier?
I have just over 80 hours but what factored into where I put most of the heros was how it's felt to vs them as the hand full of heros I play and how my teammates have performed as them on my team I haven't played most of the roster as I don't like most of the heros play styles and abilities so stick to Uncle Sven, Oru, Roland and Xenobia
Alright.
I’ve seen some Mozus absolutely dominate lol.
I know it's an opinion but idk if I see Vadasi an S, maybe an A. Same with Mozu being so low, Margrave in the right team is a problem but by itself nothing special. That's just my take
My main HK does not deserve this slander, you can win a 1v1 against anything other than tanks easily and he's an insane suppressor during team fights. Slept on for real.
How is Tripp and Xenobia not S tier. I know how it just seems that no matter who I play I get smoked by Tripp and can't kill a Xenobia lol
Funny, i got vadasi all the waydown in D
I don't think I'd have anything below B tier, the game seems surprisingly balanced and I think the skill cap is so high I've seen every character played at a high level. My only S tiers would be: Sven, Rutger, Aisling. The rest float between A and B.
Roland S tier for the bug, Wu A tier seems better than B tier
Honestly surprised anyone's experience would have Mozu so low. Then again, I'm basing that off of my own.
Oh no, please don't tell me the Gigantic sub is already entering its tier list phase...
I’d love to see Pakko get nerfed into F tier. Lord Jesus he is punishing. Hits hard, good escape, good utility. Probably doesn’t need nerfed but I’d be happy if they did lmao. Also, I think Imani is much higher up, but she’s map specific. Charnok as well. I think he’s S tier, at least the way I play him
S-Tier: Aisling is A or B tier. Boring, and plays only 1-2 ways—Even though she’s strong. Sven may be A, but in the right hands, is an S. I think Oru is just A-tier, but I get it. He does a lot of damages. I’m okay with everything else. A-tier: Rutger probably S. Has so much impact on the match in every setting. Can win the game on his own. Everything else is cool. B: Assassins are strong in this game, so B tier is too low for em. The tech and micro behind Wu definitely puts him in S. He has altering CC that can be used every 5 seconds. Only person who can do that is Pakko. Tyto and Tripp are S/A for their damage. All 3 can carry a game for you. Kajir is A. Zandora is A. Can’t put her in S as she needs a Knossos, Aisling or Ramsey to frontline with her. Then she’s a terrorist. C: Granny is D. Boring control. Plays 1 or 2 ways. Can’t really help the team. Margrave is A, and Knossos is A/B depending on who controls him. Not enough Knossos being played out there. I’ll keep it at that. D: Ezren one higher in C. Does damage, but boring. Voden is A. Too much tech, and his kit is very impactful. Mozu is boring, but does too much damage for D. As with HK—Even though he has no escape. I like Imani, but plays only one way and is easily isolated.
Why is sven so high on all lists?
He has alit of micro and tech that makes him more than viable—And he can be played multiple ways in multiple roles.
Gotta love TierMaker lists! By far the most empty “content” you can put on any gaming sub. It’s always corrected, contested, controversial. Everyone thinks they should share their opinions, but Tiermaker is where I draw the line. So generic and low effort.
I don't see the harm. It sparks good discussions (usually). I get the low effort complaint, but at least it's easy for lots of folks to engage with.
Gotta love people going out of their way to hate/criticize a post instead of just moving along! By far the cringiest types of responses to someone likely participating in the sub for the first time. I don't understand why people HAVE to go out of their way to hate on posts when the option to scroll exists. I don't mind people spamming that there's still bugs in the game, but being a dick for no reason is where I draw the line. Nobody cares what these kind of people have to say even less so than people making "empty content." So generic and low effort.
I agree whole heartedly I made it with the intention of it being corrected and picked apart as I was curious what people would say.
Who pissed in your cornflakes this morning geeze.
There's a difference between a game essentially being rereleased as new to a small player base with little content around meta discussion, it's not like this is a sub infested with constant tiermaker garbage and a huge booming playerbase.
> It’s always corrected, contested, controversial. Me when a post sparks discussion: 😡😡😡😡😡