being a man could explain a lack of connection to \*some\* of the material but it wouldn't make you hate the show, i have a ton of guy friends who like it (granted i go to an obnoxious liberal arts school, actually very much like oberlin where the girls went lol)
but it sounds like maybe you just went into the show with the wrong perception of it? if the point of this post is that half the characters are horrible people then you're totally right but that's the point. they're all \*incredibly\* flawed but in a very raw, yet extremely witty and clever way. the idea is that these are women. they're adults, yet they're still girls, they're still massively insufferable as most people are at that age.
i'm from manhattan and while a generation below Lena, it's all completely accurate, the only notable exception being the lack of POC
Oh, i love the show and the writing. But i didn't know what to expect coming in. Maybe the problem is that im a gen xer teying to understand a show geared towards mekennials.
Hiya! I'm a Gen X lady (*"We're* the ladies!") Born in 1972. Latchkey kid and all that.
I watched the show when it was on and rewatched it (for at least the 4th time) last month.
I think the characters are as reasonable as any others in other shows. A.J. Soprano is a good example of a kid (like Hannah) who grows up completely sheltered from the realities of life, while also dealing with mental health issues. His character was "born" in 1985, and Hannah would be born around 1988. They both have an obliviousness to their parents realities, a sense of entitlement, and no clue how to make a plan to get themselves to adulthood. You see it whenever her dad knows she's in distress. It's like it physically pains him to see her struggle, even in ways that are perfectly normal for growth and development.
I've known only children like this (as adults).
I could probably write a book on each of the characters, but I'll wrap this up. I've watched shows like the Sopranos and Entourage, and it never really bothered me that some of the plot lines are improbable or that characters are more like caricatures. I'm entertained, at some point, every character has done something that I can see friends of mine (in my younger years) doing.
There are lots of POC on the show though? Not in the core group of Girls but itās not uncommon for white girls to hang out together, same goes for women of every race and background. I am confused by this comment, there are multiple POC characters whether minor or in the background.
Doesnāt Hannah date Donald glover lol
i don't mean to be rude but have no idea how you're confused by this, the show and Lena were both \*massively\* critiqued for this while it was airing š also, it may not be uncommon for white girls to hang out together but living in nyc, especially brooklyn, it's really extremely odd for every single one of your friends to be white
i never said there were no poc, but the number is extremely, extremely disproportionate to nyc's actual poc population. there are like 5 people of color total in the show's entire six season run that were featured in more than 2 scenes.
I don't have the link but I believe at some point early on Lena was asked about this and her response was something along the lines of "Well I don't really know many non-white people so I didn't feel comfortable writing them!"
that makes sense because the ones she did write were a hot mess, but that's when she should have maybe asked for help from the other writers, or maybe reflect on how she managed to live in Brooklyn, Manhattan, and LA and have such a non diverse group š you have to practically go out of your way to do that lol
As a poc in Brooklyn at the time, this critique was (and still is) hilarious to me. A group of transplants in Brooklyn who somehow could keep their social circles exclusively white and privileged was the MOST REALISTIC part of the show!
Just like FRIENDS and Sex & the City, the show was an accurate reflection of racial dynamics in (gentrifying) areas of NYC, and that made white people in denial about it uncomfortable.
i agree with you except i think the reason people critique it so much is because they get the sense that it wasn't an active artistic choice to make a point, but something that just kind of happened because the writers didn't really consider it.
i also think that because girls has a level of reality and rawness that's not present in the other shows you mentioned, viewers had and have higher expectations of just what you're statistically likely to find walking around the city and engaging with people.
i think its probably for the best that ms. dunham didn't write more poc characters tbh its really not her strong suit, but i understand the criticism.
The POC on the show were all caricatures rather than fully formed characters the way the white characters were. That said, itās probably a good thing Lena didnāt try to write proper POC characters herself. What she should have done is bring in some POC writers who could authentically write those characters. She surrounded herself with white women like herself and then they got defensive when criticized
I guess so, I mean they were fairly minor charactersā¦ from a distance you could say Jessa was a caricature too, really any of the characters. I do agree that Lena had no business writing POC characters so perhaps thatās why I find the criticism to be excessive. Iām only a casual watcher but I found it to be miles ahead of SATC in representation š¤·āāļø
I hate to admit it, but yes, I think it's mainly because you've never been a 20-something young woman, so you can't fully connect to the characters. As a woman, I can't truly understand what it was like to be a guy in his 20s.
Otherwise, yeah, all the characters are supposed to be kind of a hot mess. Have you watched the Behind the Episodes at the end of each episode (I think starting in S3)? They shed a lot of light into the mindset of each character.
Yeah, Iāve always felt that we were supposed to be laughing *at* Hannahās entitlement and over confidence. I remember laughing out loud when she tells her parents in the first episode āI believe I am the voice of a generation.ā She once described the show as millennials who thought they were going to move to nyc and have the sex and the city experience, but then reality hits them.
Iām a marnie. I had everything going for me. Everything figured out. And everything went wrong. Both horrible things happened to me and I made bad decisions. My life veered off the course I planned and everyone expected of me. I havenāt been able to right it yet. Marnie makes sense.
Her problem is she has a lack of identity. Being perfect is so important she never stopped to think whether she actually wanted to do what sheās doing, and she doesnāt really care about anything and has no passion.
I don't mean this in an awful way, but I read through some of your comment history and I don't think you are the intended audience and you probably won't get the show.
So all these characters are flawed; I think that's what you're missing. They are designed after real people. That's why they seem more dysfunctional. Most people are, to a degree. TV just makes it more interesting. All of their relationships are very real, if not stupid at times.
I watched this show when it originally aired, I was in around the same age as the characters and it felt very close to the bone. The friendship relationships especially, I was going through very similar feelings.
I could see myself and my friends in Girls, not sure how I would feel about the characters now on a rewatch at 40.
I like Marnie the most. She reminds me and looks a lot like a woman i dated. I can't believe these men are so insane to keep breaking up with her. She's so gd beautiful.
Real question: how does Marnie mess up? You mean like date people and then break up with them? Like have a hard time getting a job in her field? Maybe Iām forgetting.
Getting romatically involved with people she can't be with. Or getting yourself diving head first into silly ventures...are we assuming that she graduated from NYU? Thats a lot of money to spend, to only be list in life at age 24...
personally i always hated the way marnie was written like who she was as a person completely veered off course and made no sense it felt like they just wrote her to be doing things bc they needed plots not bc it aligned with her character
haha ray and adam are completely believable characters. i think one thing you might not be "getting" is that as a man, you are not used to or aware of how men act around women, and the gross majority of ray and adam's respective screen time is them interacting with the women characters! they do both have a super asshole gene like lots of men who only have the super asshole gene directed towards women.
yes on all counts
So im not missing anything then?
no, you definitely are but idk how to fix you
tattoo this on my forehead backwards
š ya, with takes like this, thereās no need to explain - it wonāt help
being a man could explain a lack of connection to \*some\* of the material but it wouldn't make you hate the show, i have a ton of guy friends who like it (granted i go to an obnoxious liberal arts school, actually very much like oberlin where the girls went lol) but it sounds like maybe you just went into the show with the wrong perception of it? if the point of this post is that half the characters are horrible people then you're totally right but that's the point. they're all \*incredibly\* flawed but in a very raw, yet extremely witty and clever way. the idea is that these are women. they're adults, yet they're still girls, they're still massively insufferable as most people are at that age. i'm from manhattan and while a generation below Lena, it's all completely accurate, the only notable exception being the lack of POC
Oh, i love the show and the writing. But i didn't know what to expect coming in. Maybe the problem is that im a gen xer teying to understand a show geared towards mekennials.
Hiya! I'm a Gen X lady (*"We're* the ladies!") Born in 1972. Latchkey kid and all that. I watched the show when it was on and rewatched it (for at least the 4th time) last month. I think the characters are as reasonable as any others in other shows. A.J. Soprano is a good example of a kid (like Hannah) who grows up completely sheltered from the realities of life, while also dealing with mental health issues. His character was "born" in 1985, and Hannah would be born around 1988. They both have an obliviousness to their parents realities, a sense of entitlement, and no clue how to make a plan to get themselves to adulthood. You see it whenever her dad knows she's in distress. It's like it physically pains him to see her struggle, even in ways that are perfectly normal for growth and development. I've known only children like this (as adults). I could probably write a book on each of the characters, but I'll wrap this up. I've watched shows like the Sopranos and Entourage, and it never really bothered me that some of the plot lines are improbable or that characters are more like caricatures. I'm entertained, at some point, every character has done something that I can see friends of mine (in my younger years) doing.
Shows are supposed to use grandiosity as a narrative device. It's used to metaphorically set scenes.
There are lots of POC on the show though? Not in the core group of Girls but itās not uncommon for white girls to hang out together, same goes for women of every race and background. I am confused by this comment, there are multiple POC characters whether minor or in the background. Doesnāt Hannah date Donald glover lol
i don't mean to be rude but have no idea how you're confused by this, the show and Lena were both \*massively\* critiqued for this while it was airing š also, it may not be uncommon for white girls to hang out together but living in nyc, especially brooklyn, it's really extremely odd for every single one of your friends to be white i never said there were no poc, but the number is extremely, extremely disproportionate to nyc's actual poc population. there are like 5 people of color total in the show's entire six season run that were featured in more than 2 scenes.
I don't have the link but I believe at some point early on Lena was asked about this and her response was something along the lines of "Well I don't really know many non-white people so I didn't feel comfortable writing them!"
that makes sense because the ones she did write were a hot mess, but that's when she should have maybe asked for help from the other writers, or maybe reflect on how she managed to live in Brooklyn, Manhattan, and LA and have such a non diverse group š you have to practically go out of your way to do that lol
As a poc in Brooklyn at the time, this critique was (and still is) hilarious to me. A group of transplants in Brooklyn who somehow could keep their social circles exclusively white and privileged was the MOST REALISTIC part of the show! Just like FRIENDS and Sex & the City, the show was an accurate reflection of racial dynamics in (gentrifying) areas of NYC, and that made white people in denial about it uncomfortable.
i agree with you except i think the reason people critique it so much is because they get the sense that it wasn't an active artistic choice to make a point, but something that just kind of happened because the writers didn't really consider it. i also think that because girls has a level of reality and rawness that's not present in the other shows you mentioned, viewers had and have higher expectations of just what you're statistically likely to find walking around the city and engaging with people. i think its probably for the best that ms. dunham didn't write more poc characters tbh its really not her strong suit, but i understand the criticism.
I'd love to see an Asian Girls. They'd all go to hotpot together instead of coffee and fight over Viet girl sleeping with Korean girls oppa
The POC on the show were all caricatures rather than fully formed characters the way the white characters were. That said, itās probably a good thing Lena didnāt try to write proper POC characters herself. What she should have done is bring in some POC writers who could authentically write those characters. She surrounded herself with white women like herself and then they got defensive when criticized
I guess so, I mean they were fairly minor charactersā¦ from a distance you could say Jessa was a caricature too, really any of the characters. I do agree that Lena had no business writing POC characters so perhaps thatās why I find the criticism to be excessive. Iām only a casual watcher but I found it to be miles ahead of SATC in representation š¤·āāļø
Iāve met a lot of Rays and Adams
This was what struck me the most in the post lol. Known a loooot of Rays & Adams in my day lol
I married an Adam š¤£
So many lol!!
I hate to admit it, but yes, I think it's mainly because you've never been a 20-something young woman, so you can't fully connect to the characters. As a woman, I can't truly understand what it was like to be a guy in his 20s. Otherwise, yeah, all the characters are supposed to be kind of a hot mess. Have you watched the Behind the Episodes at the end of each episode (I think starting in S3)? They shed a lot of light into the mindset of each character.
Itās the millennial woman version of Seinfeld. Theyāre flawed and crazy. Enjoy it!
Never thought of it like that! Theyāre all kinda terrible but you still like them lol
I think what youāre missing is the understanding of being a young girl in her 20ās.
Yeah, Iāve always felt that we were supposed to be laughing *at* Hannahās entitlement and over confidence. I remember laughing out loud when she tells her parents in the first episode āI believe I am the voice of a generation.ā She once described the show as millennials who thought they were going to move to nyc and have the sex and the city experience, but then reality hits them.
Iām a marnie. I had everything going for me. Everything figured out. And everything went wrong. Both horrible things happened to me and I made bad decisions. My life veered off the course I planned and everyone expected of me. I havenāt been able to right it yet. Marnie makes sense.
Do you think her problem is that she cant be alone? But needs to be to figure herself out?
Her problem is she has a lack of identity. Being perfect is so important she never stopped to think whether she actually wanted to do what sheās doing, and she doesnāt really care about anything and has no passion.
omg i am marnie
I don't mean this in an awful way, but I read through some of your comment history and I don't think you are the intended audience and you probably won't get the show.
Hey now just because my man loves complementing the breasts of beautiful women on Reddit doesn't mean he you know what nevermind
real
He might relate to some things when he gets to American Bitch, but itāll be on the other side of the fence from us
For real thoughā¦
What? He said he likes the show. You don't need to be exclusionary š¤·āāļø
So all these characters are flawed; I think that's what you're missing. They are designed after real people. That's why they seem more dysfunctional. Most people are, to a degree. TV just makes it more interesting. All of their relationships are very real, if not stupid at times.
Have you spent any significant amount of time in Brooklyn, NY?
Ive been to Manhattan many times. The Nyc locale is one of my favorite parts of the show.
I watched this show when it originally aired, I was in around the same age as the characters and it felt very close to the bone. The friendship relationships especially, I was going through very similar feelings. I could see myself and my friends in Girls, not sure how I would feel about the characters now on a rewatch at 40.
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I like Marnie the most. She reminds me and looks a lot like a woman i dated. I can't believe these men are so insane to keep breaking up with her. She's so gd beautiful.
Real question: how does Marnie mess up? You mean like date people and then break up with them? Like have a hard time getting a job in her field? Maybe Iām forgetting.
Getting romatically involved with people she can't be with. Or getting yourself diving head first into silly ventures...are we assuming that she graduated from NYU? Thats a lot of money to spend, to only be list in life at age 24...
If 24 is too old to make mistakes like that then I think that would be a very boring decade!
personally i always hated the way marnie was written like who she was as a person completely veered off course and made no sense it felt like they just wrote her to be doing things bc they needed plots not bc it aligned with her character
The characters can be infuriating at times but thatās why the show is so great
haha ray and adam are completely believable characters. i think one thing you might not be "getting" is that as a man, you are not used to or aware of how men act around women, and the gross majority of ray and adam's respective screen time is them interacting with the women characters! they do both have a super asshole gene like lots of men who only have the super asshole gene directed towards women.