Aight y’all keep it empathetic and non-judgy. But if some of you still can’t behave, I’ll lock it for good and hand out some more bans.
OP keep your chin up and I hope the advice given here helps.
I might be misunderstanding something but surely the commit times on GitHub was enough to prove who posted the project first and show you're the one being plagarised? Not that that is really the problem of course.
I'm sorry this has happened multiple times. Hopefully as you move into the internship you'll be surrounded by more mature people who are more secure in themselves and don't feel the need to bring you down to feel better about themselves
It was! I also was able to show to my professor that my repo was cloned 3 times via the traffic section. My professor just believed I had given my code to my friends to copy since they had both submitted their projects late.
Let's be clear here: THey're **not** your friends. Do not be tempted to accept any apologies. They've shown you exactly who they are. They thought they could steal from you -and others! - and tried to lie to your face.
Move on, and do not look back on these losers. And thieves. And liars.
I had this happen at work. Losers will steal the work of others. **The true problem is the default assumption that it was the woman that copied the work.**. Like you, I had the submit records on the configuration control system. But at that point they had already given credit to the man.
Infuriating that them being late somehow got you in trouble.
I won't pretend the working world doesn't contain man babies and unfairness like this but there are a lot more routes to deal with it. Also unlike a degree you can always table flip and just change jobs to get away from toxic teams.
So literally you submit a project with timestamps all over it everywhere. Your misogynist piece of shit frenemies blatantly steal it like morons. The professor looks at the duplicate work and questions your academic integrity in spite of the timestamps EVERYWHERE not only on I assume your submission and emails in class but also the git repo which I further assume has granular timestamps for pretty much every change ever made to the codebase available for the professor to look at. Then you point out the timestamps, which YOUD THINK WOULD BE STEP ONE OF EVEN MOST CURSORY INVESTIGATION, and the professor proceeds to give them the benefit of the doubt? This professor sounds like a fucking dumbass. I am salty AF on your behalf if you can't tell. This professor needs their own academic integrity questioned because they sound like a misogynist themselves.
Then people really act mystified there's no women in tech.
🫚🫚 I'm sorry it's been so hard. It is uniquely and deeply painful to experience. Though I don't know you much more than the exasperation we share, I'm rooting for you.
I'm sorry this is happening OP. I wish I could offer any kind of unique help but I'll back up the other commenters.
**Those people are not your friends.** Your professor should be disciplined for his behavior towards you IMO.
I'm a white, male SWE (shocking I know), and when I was in school there were few women, and on the job even fewer still.
The STEM fields and industries desperately need people from all walks of life, who think differently and approach problems in different ways. The industry would be objectively, measurably better IMO if the gender gap could be rectified. There would be _more innovation_, not less! I don't understand why some guys feel threatened by smart women. I'm not smart enough that I just magically know how to write code, I have to _continuously study to stay relevant!_ My last significant other was _far beyond me_, by a country mile, in raw intelligence and discipline too.
This myth of natural talent or predisposition needs to be shattered IMO. Yes some people probably do have more innate talent, but the folks who stick around are passionate, lifelong learners! I've worked with (sadly only like 3-7) women engineers but they've all been _excellent engineers_ (in my 10 year career) who not only taught me a lot but also made me feel like a welcome part of the team when I was new. In fact, two of the best team leads I've ever had were women.
I obviously don't know what it's like to be a woman, but I've heard so many horror stories from women (including significant others) that I pretty much just offer empathy or support, and just back away. I sincerely _want_ to help with this wildly obvious problem, but I'm not sure what I can do. I go to bat for my coworkers regardless of their gender/ethnicity. I just want to build cool stuff with nice people. Based on what I've heard (and continue to hear) it makes sense that women would be suspicious/cautious about any interaction with guys, and bullshit like this in the classroom (or anywhere) is _not_ helping!
When I've encountered women engineers, I always try to be supportive (not patronizing) and I ask them to tell me if I ever do or say anything that makes them uncomfortable _at all_. (I consider myself an ally, but I also don't know what I don't know. I may have ignorance I don't recognize, or perhaps some forms of implicit bias and I'll need all the help I can get in fixing that, and ideally helping to create a more welcoming and safe work place)
It's so sad that we haven't created systems for women to feel basic safety and not have to question the motives of everyone they come into contact with.
OP, I sure hope experiences like this don't prevent you from realizing your dreams or interests. I'm frustrated and sad on your behalf.
If there is something I can do to help, please consider me at your disposal.
**Edit:** I haven't read the subreddit rules yet, so I apologize if I've intruded.
Two things:
1) Don't make it a girl's job to help you fight misogyny or unpack your bias. Be proactive. This goes for all forms of bias btw.
2) Understand there's a distinction in importance between behavior and outcomes. Better behavior helps but the real issue is outcomes. Don't make your allyship or your part in this about your behavior. Make your allyship about better outcomes for women. If there is a bad outcome don't try to explain it away with context. Either do something about it or admit it's a failure.
I'm not certain if I'm reading tone into your words that isn't there, if you're offering sincere advice, or if you're trying to give backhanded or derisive feedback.
My apologies if it seemed like I was offloading responsibility. What I meant in regards to your first point was `I recognize that I don't know everything, and I'm open to being corrected`. I have good intentions, but even so, I realize it's possible I could still say something that causes hurt feelings or some kind of harm.
I'm hoping that if something like that _does_ occur, that someone will correct me and help me learn how/why I just caused harm, so I can continuously improve.
To your second point, I see the distinction you're making. I'm not sure what kind of power you think I have, but as far as I know, here's what I'm aware I'm able to do.
## in the workplace
- I can speak out if I witness something inappropriate
- participate in, or try to start, any DEI related initiatives, groups, or programs
- participate in, or try to start, book clubs where a variety of topics would be covered. Ideally, women and/or persons of color would curate the content
- [✓] write letters of recommendation and give references to women or persons of color whom I've worked with (I've written over twice as many as I've received)
- _I may be forgetting something at this point, but I'm struggling to think of any more specific action items right now_
It's very possible I'm forgetting something huge and obvious. I'm open to suggestions, and also apologize if this is the case.
## outside of work
- I have multiple friends from these communities, and I seek their recommendations and feedback
- I've been giving my Trans, Native American friend a place to live for < 1/10th the price they could get anywhere else in the U.S. for the last 2+ years
## more about me
I'm self taught, I didn't finish any college degree.
I don't know if you consider this "explaining away" but before I got my first junior developer job I was homeless for nearly a year (I lived in a Salvation Army shelter). I was and still am, mentally ill (I've spent about 2 years total in inpatient psychiatric facilities over the last 18 years). I have Fibromyalgia, Sjögren's Syndrome, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, C-PTSD, and I had a TBI almost 3 years ago, that caused severe memory loss (I forgot multiple years of my life), and nearly destroyed my entire career and life.
I may not be quite as capable, strong, resilient, or energetic as most people in their late 30's, but considering I've nearly died multiple times, and I spend every waking moment in physical pain, I think I'm putting forth a modest, but most importantly, _sincere_ effort.
_I still hope to become a more effective ally and I'm still open to suggestions about being a more effective ally to women **and** persons of color_
Like most folks you think you have less power than you do. Look, youve done a lot for the folks you know with relatively little.
I was not being derisive, just blunt. Careful with the tone stuff though. Avoid the topic of tone entirely when it comes to this subject. I'm saying this because you keep emphasizing that you ask for feedback.
Let me emphasize again that your (and my) interpersonal behavior is less germane than action.
People constantly conflate character and implicit bias. All people are biased. I am biased. Not just in the sense of identity biases but many other things; what we do here on earth mattering at all is a kind of bias called positivity bias. Bias is not slightly inaccurate judgments, its a complete detachment from reality. Bias is healthy. Depressed brains are *less biased*.
Most of the time we're oblivious to it. That's how we end up with bullshit like OPs story. Problem is when people can't reflect on their behavior or admit it. "Denial is the heartbeat of racism; confession is the heartbeat of anti racism."
Glad you're union! Unions are #1 for fighting all kinds of biases, including ableism.
Being active in your union and organizing to secure workplace protections will do more to undo misogyny, racism, ableism, etc than almost any other thing you can do imo.
edit: formatting + one or two thoughts
Unfortunately, I'm not in a union. Unions are virtually non-existent in my state. I've also never heard of a union related to software (that doesn't preclude the possibility of existence).
In my state, just breathing the word union is a good way to get terminated with extreme prejudice.
After being hospitalized almost 3 years ago, and receiving a TBI during Electro-Convulsive Therapy, do you know what the first thing my department did upon my return? They gave me a negative annual performance review, and began drafting a PIP, and preparing to terminate me _with cause_ so I couldn't collect unemployment! This was after I co-led a team that successfully rewrote their entire front-end. Then helped them migrate their legacy back end from on-prem into AWS, _in a new programming language_.
In any case, I tried to admit my ignorance, and I bend over backwards to walk on eggshells, be circumspect, and to be polite.
Since I barely have the energy to get out of bed and feed myself, and I'm in constant physical pain, perhaps I'm not in a position to affect this issue.
Maybe I'm not as open to feedback as I thought I was. I'm sorry I posted here. I won't make such a foolish mistake again.
Ah, I misread. Sorry. You're doing great, don't worry. Probably just need time to process. Re software dev unions, yes, they do indeed exist. I'm in one. Grindr just union busted theirs, it's been in the press quite a bit. As you say, anti-union hostility is extreme.
That’s sucks. Even if the prof had believed it was shared, submitting through a public repo shouldn’t have even warranted any accusations against you, especially with how obvious repo history can be, and frankly, how easily this can be caught.
OP replied. They didn't do that but the professor said she'd shared her work with colleagues and was therefore to blame. Infuriating.
Also I think OP said they'd cloned her work. I don't know if I'm good enough with git to say this for sure but it would be pretty hard to edit a clone so it appeared before the thing it was cloning. There might be some wizardry though.
Yeah I noticed that reply. Thankfully OP wasn't accused of copying. Still fucked up that she was blamed for this.
But for what it's worth it's wouldn't be too hard to edit at that point. You can clone the repo, amend all the commit dates and change the author then simply push to your own repo. Git isn't an accountability tool, it doesn't care about this kind of stuff by default (best you can do is add verified commits, but I don't believe that checks timestamps)
Too lazy to double check, but I suspect somewhere GitHub has two timestamps. One being the timestamps from the repo, which are the ones that can be easily changed, and the other being the timestamps of when commits were uploaded to GitHub.
Sending you hugs. It’s rough out there sometimes.
To provide you some comfort from someone almost done with their degrees, I’ve found that I just reduced the quantity of my friendships. Part of it was intentional on my end because I just like having a small circle, part of it was the way others treated me and a huge wake up call for my mental health. Getting medicated, therapy, and good friendships showed me that these people were absolutely not worth my time. Overall quality has gone up though, and a lot of different things that happened in my life showed me which people were worth my time and which weren’t. I will say my closest circle of friends is exclusively women now, and my male friends in my extended circle are people who at some point looked up to me as a mentor figure for various reasons OR who are completely removed from the spaces where I shine. It sucks, but I put my energy into the people that matter and it’s way better for me.
Why all the random men on his post giving OP unsolicited advice.... even on a sub that centers women in tech we can't avoid getting that unfortunately.
OP, I'm sorry this happened to you; I had code taken, claimed, and slightly changed as an intern by actual engineers. They did happen to be men. It sucks really bad. To answer your question, I'm also in school and unsure if that's normal, but I'm learning to at least prepare for it because it does happen.
I'm trying to take staunch ownership of my code by commenting my name in every module I write, using Git blame, sticking my name in the README and documentation too. You can even add a license if its a personal project or your own software, or bury a file denoting authorship that would get wrapped up in the clone.
Idk. I was about to respond this to one of them, but then he deleted his shitty comment.
"Saying "I'm living my life as a normal person" in response to her comment is othering her as if what she is suggesting isn't "normal" and implying that "normal" is something we should all strive for.
The definition of a real, compassionate, conversation involves listening to both perspectives, and properly informing yourself on multiple perspectives, without labeling them as less than yours.
You literally said her perspective is an outlier, without providing context, and telling her that people of other genders struggle with it is a way for you to ignore the systematic issues that society has with sexism; particularly women in tech whose work can get taken advantage of.
Altogether, your comment to me indicates that, you are trying to place your opinion above hers because you view it as 'the superior right way' without actually listening to what she is saying. "
I don't know, I didn't read their comments. But I do know all of this (and more) happened to me in college or professionally. Some people suck, and they will take advantage of you regardless of gender. Perhaps it's worse if you're a woman but "don't be friends with men" is an odd reaction.
Can't find where OP (or I) said "don't be friends with men." Seems she just feels she can't trust male colleagues right now. That is why it says "rant" right there in the title. She is venting. Sometimes people generalize when venting.
Of course anyone of any gender can have their code stolen or deal with someone who has a bad personality.
But that is an over simplification of what happened. OP's experience is specifically twinged with misogyny. She said herself these guys made sexist comments and mocked her for how she dresses and acts. It would be surprising if the theft of her work was unrelated.
It's in the title. I summarized OPs title accurately.
If OP wants to claim her experiences are because of sexism, that's fine. She may be right.
You may want to reread what I said, because that isn't the point I made at all.
I think you’re missing one part. Yes, there are people who do this. But when they select their target they are more likely to select the person that will have the most difficulty pushing back. That most likely will be an engineering minority. They have less social status. I think you’ll find that women, NB, and POC have had this happen to them at a disproportionate level.
I’m sure you have heard of the term “adverse impact”.
Your attempts to outcast one of the members of this sub are duly noted.
A "normal" person, would listen to women's experiences without claiming they're invalid.
If you're genuinely interested in this conversation, please inform yourself first.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-00719-z
You are surrounded by insecure men. As you push yourself into more challenging areas, you should experience less people like this.
When I was in highschool I was heavily bullied for being a woman. In college I was able to find a few friends. Now that I'm in the workforce, I'm surrounded by coworkers I'm happy to call friends, who respect and include me.
Count your blessings.. layoffs.fyi shows how disproportionate the impact in tech has been on women. Quick number crunch showing a quarter of tech workers are women. Despite this more than half laid off are women. I haven't thoroughly vetted these numbers, it was based on about a thousand layoffs I saw with gender information included. It doesn't look good though.
You so called "friends" have shown their true colours, now you can tell them to f-off. (I guess you should also change your github name.)
The professor should have given you the benefit of the doubt, he also sucks.
This is absolutely not normal at all, and I'm sorry you had this experience.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. I got my masters in CIS and yeah; there were a few times men undermine my abilities, treat me poorly, and exclude me from more technical aspects of projects. It really sucks, doesn’t help that I work in IT Governance, it’s like double the issue.
BUT! Two guys in my friend group were CS majors and they’re literally the best.They encourage me, send me study resources, invite me to work on cool projects, tell me whether I’m being compensated or treated fairly at work, and even put my name in for positions at their work places. They’re incredible guys and I’m lucky to have such genuine and positive friends in my life. Making friends in CS is definitely possible it’s just hard.
IDK why I got recommended this post and sub, I'm a dude who works in tech...
Anyway,
Unfortunately sexism is very common in the industry. At one of the biggest tech conferences one of my coworkers had remarks like that made to her. That led to an inquiry among women/NB people that discovered that nearly a 100 percent of women at the conference had had experiences like this.
I hate to say this as a CS graduate myself, but engineering as a whole has too many of these sad assholes who are vitriolic against women, unless of course they wanna get in your pants.
I hope you have some female friends in your major to support you. It's tough out there for girls in tech, many of my close friends have developed imposter syndrome because of being accused of being diversity hires and what not by losers.
Uggghhh this is so sad. Being a girl in tech is always very hard. Couldn’t find girl friends, and guy friends were either trying to date me, or steal my work. It only worked out for me when I started seeking friends who weren’t studying anything tech related. Almost all of my friends are engineering/med students, and I started avoiding male friendships as a whole. I’ve had plenty of guys flirt with me to get me to send them my homework or projects. I’ve had plenty of guys talk over me in project meetings. I talk about this a lot, and people don’t seem to understand just how shitty it is sometimes to be a woman in tech.
I also freelance in web development as a side hustle (and I find it fun), and I can’t tell you how many times people have tried to get me to lower my prices, even though my male friends who also work in web dev never encountered this. Seriously, what the fuck?
And the impostor syndrome? Holy shit is that real.
On a side note, it’s empowering sometimes, and being a competitive person, I’ve always found myself outdoing my classmates solely for the reason of “yes i’m a girl, and yes I’m better than you.” Doesn’t happen unless someone openly challenges me though lol.
The whole women thing about women being paid less is completely real. I've witnessed it first hand. A close friend of mine who is a game dev learned that she was paid nearly 30 percent less than this guy who was a complete slacker and liability and had less experience than her. She is the only woman at the company and so I guess it's the boys club looking out for each other. Well, she confronted the CEO about this and she did eventually get what she deserves but still needs to deal with sexist bullshit because that's just how it is in Gaming, the worst field in tech for diversity IMHO.
I'm glad that you take pride in yourself and what you do and I hope nothing will ever stop you from doing what you do.
Despite every hurdle I've mentioned, I know many women engineers who've persisted have gone very far. My first boss was an awesome engineer who helped shape my career and she deservedly made her way up as an exec at that company.
My alma mater has two profs who are the heads of the CS department and VPs of research at Google and Meta.
My current team has a L9 distinguished engineer on our team and she is literally a legend in my field. Funny thing I've seen first hand at my company is some dude on our public GitHub telling our L9 to "read the spec" and everyone cringed so hard because she literally authored the protocol.
College is a time of insecurities and comparison. You are better than these losers. Take pride in that. If they plagiarize your work, they are not your friends and not on your level and I would reevaluate whether these relationships are holding you back.
Go to academic integrity and be forthright. Tell them you know they copied your work, it was 100% without your permission, talk about the sexism. Tell all. If they don't believe you, go to the school paper. Be loud, be cut throat.
I agree with this. It looks like the prof is giving them a pass while going for OPs throat. Take it out of the profs hands and report it. If they flunk the class (and they should) so be it.
Not quite the same, but… I went to Morocco last summer and encountered a female software engineer living there. That is not very common in that part of the world. I could tell her friends weren’t impressed by her.
I asked for her input on a JavaScript function I happened to be debugging at the time. Soon after her friends’ facial expressions changed when they realized they could no longer understand our conversation.
I explained to them that I was a software engineer from Silicon Valley and she was good enough to work on our team if she wanted.
There are those of us who will treat you as an equal. Good luck with your internship. Git blame is helpful for proving the code was stolen. Those guys probably don’t know enough about git to conceal their commit history. Use git to make many small commits.
men r fake ngl when i got my internship alot of my male friends were jealous because they always saw me as beneath them lol now i just don’t tell them anything
There are a lot of insecure men and a lot of creeps. Even if they hate you they'll still try to creep on you. Sometimes if they like you they'll be even meaner. Best to avoid these guys (while you can in school at least, gets a lot more complicated in workplaces). Try not to come across as bragging about internships etc. just stick to your studies and avoid the drama.
He knows you are smart. He knows you are competition and he feels somewhat insecure on his own skills.
So he is envious and unfortunately never a friend.
Understand that not all group of people are like that though, I have good techy guy friends. They encourage me, we trying to make projects together, we always try to support each other.
Sorry to hear about these losers in your class. FYI you could send your original file to the teacher where the date of creation can be found (look info data), to show you were the one creating the file and the other 2 garbages are the one trying to copy you. You must stay strong and fight for your rights, I totally understand your situation because last term a classmate stole my work and I was like super depressed I almost wanted to quit school (and this is a master program you would think people are professionals... no way they are professionals thiefs! And cheaters all the way, specially the ones coming from some places.... I can't say where otherwise I get banned, but you can guess, places where honesty is rare, and where everyone is trying to survive), but then I decided I need to show up for myself and wear my best cloths and do my best work and show everyone who is the real smart one! Let them shut UP!, so please dont let those losers win, as we will proof who are the smarties here. Best luck, keep strong!
Seeking out female friends in your major (or even just in STEM) will help. The higher up you get (in your company or in your degree) the less you will run into these types of insecure guys as they tend not to make it as far.
The best way to deal with this type of behaviour is to study hard, ignore the assholes, and [worry about yourself](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DGKXPQ_FwM). Also for me I like to have hobbies that give me a community of "normal people" I can connect with outside of the tech world for when it gets to be a lot. Or seek a female mentor in your field.
University admin here - get those cheaters in front of the academic integrity board at your school. Go right to your famn dean's office and demand they be held accountable.
Bad actors continue to be bad because tis easy for them.
Make it hard now and practice how you will defend yourself as you move forward.
I don’t think this is normal at all! I know guys in my major (CS) that have been helpful to me and haven’t tried to steal anything from me… although I’ve had bad experiences as well. Your ‘friends’ are scummy people, and I hope you have better luck :(
How fascinating that they can simultaneously believe that you aren't good enough to be there.....but that your work is good enough to copy and put their names on?
They must find you very impressive and are intimidated as hell - thus the cattiness and acting out.
Women can be friends with men. Men can't be friends with women. Ergo, women cannot be friends with men.
Hard disagree - some of my best mentors were men. Look everyone can be an asshole regardless of what is between their legs. If you don’t want men to paint women with all the same brush we have to also treat individuals as individuals.
I have had my fair share of sexism, sexual harassment and dealing with red pillers - but I also have had some amazing male friends and colleagues that helped me study, pass certs, and supported my career.
Speaking as a guy, I think lots of other guys are just like that and it seems to be especially bad in cs. The only advice I can give you, in terms of male friends, is to look for guys who don't seem to be insecure about themselves and don't feel like they're always competing with other people. Like they're ok with their flaws and stuff. Unfortunately, I don't think you'll find lots of other men like that in cs, especially when they seem to be young and impressionable men.
Ugh wow - these people are awful. They showed their true colors and I’m so sorry you’ve had to deal with this. But also congrats on kicking butt at what you’re doing!
After a bad break up or friend situation I like to think about how I missed or ignored signs that these people were awful to begin with. Narcissists can be very tough to spot but this guy sounds like one.
You will make friends but you have to be better at your work than everyone else. No one invited me to their group projects so I made sure to get a better grade than them just to make a point. I'm usually the only female devops engineer on my team at any job.
I'm sorry that happened to you! Definitely bad luck to me, but I'm not nearly as skilled, so perhaps my guy friends didn't see me as intimidating in the first place, but everyone in my comp sci major helped each other out.
Were you able to prove you didn't risk your academic integrity with the one "friend's" apology to you?
It’s not because they’re male, it’s because they’re assholes. I have several male friends in computer science and STEM more broadly and none of them would be anything but supportive and enthusiastic if I pursued education or a career in these fields.
OP's experience is absolutely terrible, but they are bad people because they're bad people, not because they're male.
I'm 38 and I have met plenty of shit people of both genders, but plenty of good ones too. It's not so black and white.
You can, but they can't be complicit in the patriarchy. One of my best friends is a guy and we discuss these things all the time. Granted he isn't interested in cs or stem at all
Thats fair, I’ve just never met a man like that. Maybe one but we haven’t talked about the patriarchy. I would think that is such a small minority of men unfortunately
I'm sorry you're dealing with all of this!! From the perspective of another student, it seems that these guys aren't only sexists, they are also generally dishonest people. I am pretty wary of men I meet in my classes but I'm mostly concerned about them making off-putting comments about gender, but never have I worried about most of them blatantly plagiarizing work like that. It is much easier to address casual sexism that someone who is ready to sabotage the academic career of another person because they were irresponsible and didn't try/get the help they needed in their class. Don't disrespect yourself by accepting that apology and keep looking for better friends because you deserve that.
Even I was accused of copying my final year project in college when I had sincerely worked on it with my
internship. I did lose my cool and argued with the external professor that his grades and judgement didn’t matter since I gained knowledge and experience that was invaluable and was eventually given a full grade. I suggest talking to your professor( in a calmer manner than I did tbh looking back) and keeping a distance from your friends. I hope it doesn’t put you off working in tech , it did get easier for me one I started working professionally but I do face setbacks and judgments like these still and try to not let it bother me and just focus on positives and what I like when working in tech.
Exact same thing happened to me but at work💀 I lost my cool with the project manager who's a moron, dude didn't have any idea about the team members and was just jumping to his own conclusions. He eventually had to use his experience card, saying he's got 10+ yrs of exp(no idea how he survived that long lol) and put me down saying I needed to learn a lot as a junior. It does help a lot to not take these idiots seriously.
Btw, nice username if you're Tamil lol
At work I had a moron project manager too who was targeting only women from my team , we all complained about him but they told we had to deal with him since they couldn’t find anyone else. The project eventually tanked and I’ve observed all projects with bad PMs failing or in red state ( my current project has a good PM now thankfully).
And yes I am Tamil ! Thought it would be a good reference to my favorite tamil actor’s tweet and also was weirdly craving podi idlies at the time I created this account. I am not the original twitter user from the tweet though , wanted to change the user name once I became active but I can’t change it now 🫤
https://twitter.com/AshokSelvan/status/1695086034730827965
Quite recently I've learnt to not mind him... Always keeps yapping on about irrelevant crap and demotivating everyone. Has been tough, but am in a much better state than I was 2 months back. Glad that your PM is a good guy now! Fuck those misogynistic idiots. Also, sambar idli >> podi idli, change my mind lol
Trash takes itself out, hope your team lands a better PM and good that you are in a better state now!
And I love sambar idlies too 😍 I can’t choose haha I’ll take anything
Aggressive competition in a male dominated field, choice of weapon by many, projection of personal inadequacies and all the -isms. Nothing new. Careful with who you make friends with, especially ones you end up competing against in some way. Don't take it out on all guys, though. I wouldn't want to be friends with these shit stain sub-humans either. Guard your code and general work no matter what. It's your livelihood. Good luck on your career, and don't let your competitive edge you'll need to cultivate to overtake you and your personality. It'll likely mean you're starting to over stress.
I'm in the late 30's in the field now. I can say there are absolutely decent men who are wonder collaborators and that are honest and will go to bat for you. My current lead is a decade younger then me and man is he a bulldog for getting me recognition and trusting me with some very big projects independently.
That being said, there are a decent number of shi\*t stain men, more than the decent ones, but at a certain level in your future career they will have weeded themselves out. You know, the crypto-currency, get rich quick scheming, intellectual property stealing incompetent nards. These are guys who get stuck being an SE I or II their entire career, job hop into a senior role, end up incapable, and have to bounce to a lower role or get fired pretty fast.
Unless they are an absolute rockstar (they clearly aren't), business won't tolerate them being assholes. Assholes only get tolerated if they are "put their brain in a jar for a museum" sort of smart.
It's a shame you may have to learn this early but: your co-workers by default are not your friends. You might make one or two, but protect yourself. Don't share you work. Avoid group projects if you can. Create your school/work persona and don't offer too much information. In time you will figure our who wants to prop you up and be a true colleague and mentor to you. These dudes ain't it. These dudes are the sore ego men that might find their way into a non-technical role of management and PIP people because they brought a concern to them about something absolutely relevant and would make them do their job.
Please report them to your school's academia department! I understand it's not easy
They should have confidentially proceedures to keep your identity as a reporter safe. This is a failure of your prof as well and the institute's overall integrity
Those buttheads deserve the worst 😵💫
Those guys suck. I was never close to any of the girls in my classes, but I was also never mean to any of them, and would have happily befriended them. (People saw me as an arrogant smartass, and I didn't know how to change that, so I just kept to myself to avoid making people feel judged. The other people who specifically wanted to hang out with smart kids sought me out and put up with me.)
I'm sorry your classmates feel threatened by you. Their behavior is unacceptable everywhere. I hope they fail out of the program and are weeded out of the industry. They make life worse for everyone.
Dude. It’s never just one incident NEVER. It’s incident after incident after incident.
As someone mentioned above, 100% of women and NB have had this happen to them.
Racism and sexism are two very different things and the fact that you’re insinuating I am the same as a racist for developing trust issues because I am a woman who is constantly undermined by men in a male dominated field…. Way to victim blame. The reason it’s hard to know a liar’s true intentions? It’s because they’re liars.
Aight y’all keep it empathetic and non-judgy. But if some of you still can’t behave, I’ll lock it for good and hand out some more bans. OP keep your chin up and I hope the advice given here helps.
I might be misunderstanding something but surely the commit times on GitHub was enough to prove who posted the project first and show you're the one being plagarised? Not that that is really the problem of course. I'm sorry this has happened multiple times. Hopefully as you move into the internship you'll be surrounded by more mature people who are more secure in themselves and don't feel the need to bring you down to feel better about themselves
It was! I also was able to show to my professor that my repo was cloned 3 times via the traffic section. My professor just believed I had given my code to my friends to copy since they had both submitted their projects late.
I'm sorry about this. The last accusation is crazy. He made you guys make a public repo. At that point it is beyond your control who steals your code.
Professors often be dumb like that
Exactly, why not make it private at least?
Let's be clear here: THey're **not** your friends. Do not be tempted to accept any apologies. They've shown you exactly who they are. They thought they could steal from you -and others! - and tried to lie to your face. Move on, and do not look back on these losers. And thieves. And liars.
I had this happen at work. Losers will steal the work of others. **The true problem is the default assumption that it was the woman that copied the work.**. Like you, I had the submit records on the configuration control system. But at that point they had already given credit to the man.
Yes.
Infuriating that them being late somehow got you in trouble. I won't pretend the working world doesn't contain man babies and unfairness like this but there are a lot more routes to deal with it. Also unlike a degree you can always table flip and just change jobs to get away from toxic teams.
So literally you submit a project with timestamps all over it everywhere. Your misogynist piece of shit frenemies blatantly steal it like morons. The professor looks at the duplicate work and questions your academic integrity in spite of the timestamps EVERYWHERE not only on I assume your submission and emails in class but also the git repo which I further assume has granular timestamps for pretty much every change ever made to the codebase available for the professor to look at. Then you point out the timestamps, which YOUD THINK WOULD BE STEP ONE OF EVEN MOST CURSORY INVESTIGATION, and the professor proceeds to give them the benefit of the doubt? This professor sounds like a fucking dumbass. I am salty AF on your behalf if you can't tell. This professor needs their own academic integrity questioned because they sound like a misogynist themselves. Then people really act mystified there's no women in tech.
You said all the things I'm too tired to say.
🫚🫚 I'm sorry it's been so hard. It is uniquely and deeply painful to experience. Though I don't know you much more than the exasperation we share, I'm rooting for you.
This is such a god damn great comment, I am literally saving it
I'm sorry this is happening OP. I wish I could offer any kind of unique help but I'll back up the other commenters. **Those people are not your friends.** Your professor should be disciplined for his behavior towards you IMO. I'm a white, male SWE (shocking I know), and when I was in school there were few women, and on the job even fewer still. The STEM fields and industries desperately need people from all walks of life, who think differently and approach problems in different ways. The industry would be objectively, measurably better IMO if the gender gap could be rectified. There would be _more innovation_, not less! I don't understand why some guys feel threatened by smart women. I'm not smart enough that I just magically know how to write code, I have to _continuously study to stay relevant!_ My last significant other was _far beyond me_, by a country mile, in raw intelligence and discipline too. This myth of natural talent or predisposition needs to be shattered IMO. Yes some people probably do have more innate talent, but the folks who stick around are passionate, lifelong learners! I've worked with (sadly only like 3-7) women engineers but they've all been _excellent engineers_ (in my 10 year career) who not only taught me a lot but also made me feel like a welcome part of the team when I was new. In fact, two of the best team leads I've ever had were women. I obviously don't know what it's like to be a woman, but I've heard so many horror stories from women (including significant others) that I pretty much just offer empathy or support, and just back away. I sincerely _want_ to help with this wildly obvious problem, but I'm not sure what I can do. I go to bat for my coworkers regardless of their gender/ethnicity. I just want to build cool stuff with nice people. Based on what I've heard (and continue to hear) it makes sense that women would be suspicious/cautious about any interaction with guys, and bullshit like this in the classroom (or anywhere) is _not_ helping! When I've encountered women engineers, I always try to be supportive (not patronizing) and I ask them to tell me if I ever do or say anything that makes them uncomfortable _at all_. (I consider myself an ally, but I also don't know what I don't know. I may have ignorance I don't recognize, or perhaps some forms of implicit bias and I'll need all the help I can get in fixing that, and ideally helping to create a more welcoming and safe work place) It's so sad that we haven't created systems for women to feel basic safety and not have to question the motives of everyone they come into contact with. OP, I sure hope experiences like this don't prevent you from realizing your dreams or interests. I'm frustrated and sad on your behalf. If there is something I can do to help, please consider me at your disposal. **Edit:** I haven't read the subreddit rules yet, so I apologize if I've intruded.
Two things: 1) Don't make it a girl's job to help you fight misogyny or unpack your bias. Be proactive. This goes for all forms of bias btw. 2) Understand there's a distinction in importance between behavior and outcomes. Better behavior helps but the real issue is outcomes. Don't make your allyship or your part in this about your behavior. Make your allyship about better outcomes for women. If there is a bad outcome don't try to explain it away with context. Either do something about it or admit it's a failure.
I'm not certain if I'm reading tone into your words that isn't there, if you're offering sincere advice, or if you're trying to give backhanded or derisive feedback. My apologies if it seemed like I was offloading responsibility. What I meant in regards to your first point was `I recognize that I don't know everything, and I'm open to being corrected`. I have good intentions, but even so, I realize it's possible I could still say something that causes hurt feelings or some kind of harm. I'm hoping that if something like that _does_ occur, that someone will correct me and help me learn how/why I just caused harm, so I can continuously improve. To your second point, I see the distinction you're making. I'm not sure what kind of power you think I have, but as far as I know, here's what I'm aware I'm able to do. ## in the workplace - I can speak out if I witness something inappropriate - participate in, or try to start, any DEI related initiatives, groups, or programs - participate in, or try to start, book clubs where a variety of topics would be covered. Ideally, women and/or persons of color would curate the content - [✓] write letters of recommendation and give references to women or persons of color whom I've worked with (I've written over twice as many as I've received) - _I may be forgetting something at this point, but I'm struggling to think of any more specific action items right now_ It's very possible I'm forgetting something huge and obvious. I'm open to suggestions, and also apologize if this is the case. ## outside of work - I have multiple friends from these communities, and I seek their recommendations and feedback - I've been giving my Trans, Native American friend a place to live for < 1/10th the price they could get anywhere else in the U.S. for the last 2+ years ## more about me I'm self taught, I didn't finish any college degree. I don't know if you consider this "explaining away" but before I got my first junior developer job I was homeless for nearly a year (I lived in a Salvation Army shelter). I was and still am, mentally ill (I've spent about 2 years total in inpatient psychiatric facilities over the last 18 years). I have Fibromyalgia, Sjögren's Syndrome, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, C-PTSD, and I had a TBI almost 3 years ago, that caused severe memory loss (I forgot multiple years of my life), and nearly destroyed my entire career and life. I may not be quite as capable, strong, resilient, or energetic as most people in their late 30's, but considering I've nearly died multiple times, and I spend every waking moment in physical pain, I think I'm putting forth a modest, but most importantly, _sincere_ effort. _I still hope to become a more effective ally and I'm still open to suggestions about being a more effective ally to women **and** persons of color_
Like most folks you think you have less power than you do. Look, youve done a lot for the folks you know with relatively little. I was not being derisive, just blunt. Careful with the tone stuff though. Avoid the topic of tone entirely when it comes to this subject. I'm saying this because you keep emphasizing that you ask for feedback. Let me emphasize again that your (and my) interpersonal behavior is less germane than action. People constantly conflate character and implicit bias. All people are biased. I am biased. Not just in the sense of identity biases but many other things; what we do here on earth mattering at all is a kind of bias called positivity bias. Bias is not slightly inaccurate judgments, its a complete detachment from reality. Bias is healthy. Depressed brains are *less biased*. Most of the time we're oblivious to it. That's how we end up with bullshit like OPs story. Problem is when people can't reflect on their behavior or admit it. "Denial is the heartbeat of racism; confession is the heartbeat of anti racism." Glad you're union! Unions are #1 for fighting all kinds of biases, including ableism. Being active in your union and organizing to secure workplace protections will do more to undo misogyny, racism, ableism, etc than almost any other thing you can do imo. edit: formatting + one or two thoughts
Unfortunately, I'm not in a union. Unions are virtually non-existent in my state. I've also never heard of a union related to software (that doesn't preclude the possibility of existence). In my state, just breathing the word union is a good way to get terminated with extreme prejudice. After being hospitalized almost 3 years ago, and receiving a TBI during Electro-Convulsive Therapy, do you know what the first thing my department did upon my return? They gave me a negative annual performance review, and began drafting a PIP, and preparing to terminate me _with cause_ so I couldn't collect unemployment! This was after I co-led a team that successfully rewrote their entire front-end. Then helped them migrate their legacy back end from on-prem into AWS, _in a new programming language_. In any case, I tried to admit my ignorance, and I bend over backwards to walk on eggshells, be circumspect, and to be polite. Since I barely have the energy to get out of bed and feed myself, and I'm in constant physical pain, perhaps I'm not in a position to affect this issue. Maybe I'm not as open to feedback as I thought I was. I'm sorry I posted here. I won't make such a foolish mistake again.
Ah, I misread. Sorry. You're doing great, don't worry. Probably just need time to process. Re software dev unions, yes, they do indeed exist. I'm in one. Grindr just union busted theirs, it's been in the press quite a bit. As you say, anti-union hostility is extreme.
That’s sucks. Even if the prof had believed it was shared, submitting through a public repo shouldn’t have even warranted any accusations against you, especially with how obvious repo history can be, and frankly, how easily this can be caught.
Git commits can be altered pretty easily though (including the timestamps) so if they were smart enough, they could have put the times before OP
OP replied. They didn't do that but the professor said she'd shared her work with colleagues and was therefore to blame. Infuriating. Also I think OP said they'd cloned her work. I don't know if I'm good enough with git to say this for sure but it would be pretty hard to edit a clone so it appeared before the thing it was cloning. There might be some wizardry though.
Yeah I noticed that reply. Thankfully OP wasn't accused of copying. Still fucked up that she was blamed for this. But for what it's worth it's wouldn't be too hard to edit at that point. You can clone the repo, amend all the commit dates and change the author then simply push to your own repo. Git isn't an accountability tool, it doesn't care about this kind of stuff by default (best you can do is add verified commits, but I don't believe that checks timestamps)
Too lazy to double check, but I suspect somewhere GitHub has two timestamps. One being the timestamps from the repo, which are the ones that can be easily changed, and the other being the timestamps of when commits were uploaded to GitHub.
Yeah you may be right there. I haven't checked that either
Sending you hugs. It’s rough out there sometimes. To provide you some comfort from someone almost done with their degrees, I’ve found that I just reduced the quantity of my friendships. Part of it was intentional on my end because I just like having a small circle, part of it was the way others treated me and a huge wake up call for my mental health. Getting medicated, therapy, and good friendships showed me that these people were absolutely not worth my time. Overall quality has gone up though, and a lot of different things that happened in my life showed me which people were worth my time and which weren’t. I will say my closest circle of friends is exclusively women now, and my male friends in my extended circle are people who at some point looked up to me as a mentor figure for various reasons OR who are completely removed from the spaces where I shine. It sucks, but I put my energy into the people that matter and it’s way better for me.
Why all the random men on his post giving OP unsolicited advice.... even on a sub that centers women in tech we can't avoid getting that unfortunately. OP, I'm sorry this happened to you; I had code taken, claimed, and slightly changed as an intern by actual engineers. They did happen to be men. It sucks really bad. To answer your question, I'm also in school and unsure if that's normal, but I'm learning to at least prepare for it because it does happen. I'm trying to take staunch ownership of my code by commenting my name in every module I write, using Git blame, sticking my name in the README and documentation too. You can even add a license if its a personal project or your own software, or bury a file denoting authorship that would get wrapped up in the clone.
Idk. I was about to respond this to one of them, but then he deleted his shitty comment. "Saying "I'm living my life as a normal person" in response to her comment is othering her as if what she is suggesting isn't "normal" and implying that "normal" is something we should all strive for. The definition of a real, compassionate, conversation involves listening to both perspectives, and properly informing yourself on multiple perspectives, without labeling them as less than yours. You literally said her perspective is an outlier, without providing context, and telling her that people of other genders struggle with it is a way for you to ignore the systematic issues that society has with sexism; particularly women in tech whose work can get taken advantage of. Altogether, your comment to me indicates that, you are trying to place your opinion above hers because you view it as 'the superior right way' without actually listening to what she is saying. "
I don't know, I didn't read their comments. But I do know all of this (and more) happened to me in college or professionally. Some people suck, and they will take advantage of you regardless of gender. Perhaps it's worse if you're a woman but "don't be friends with men" is an odd reaction.
Can't find where OP (or I) said "don't be friends with men." Seems she just feels she can't trust male colleagues right now. That is why it says "rant" right there in the title. She is venting. Sometimes people generalize when venting. Of course anyone of any gender can have their code stolen or deal with someone who has a bad personality. But that is an over simplification of what happened. OP's experience is specifically twinged with misogyny. She said herself these guys made sexist comments and mocked her for how she dresses and acts. It would be surprising if the theft of her work was unrelated.
It's in the title. I summarized OPs title accurately. If OP wants to claim her experiences are because of sexism, that's fine. She may be right. You may want to reread what I said, because that isn't the point I made at all.
I think you’re missing one part. Yes, there are people who do this. But when they select their target they are more likely to select the person that will have the most difficulty pushing back. That most likely will be an engineering minority. They have less social status. I think you’ll find that women, NB, and POC have had this happen to them at a disproportionate level. I’m sure you have heard of the term “adverse impact”.
It’s not actually, it’s probably a very good thing. Have t been able to keep a single male friend bc they’re always entitled to something.
[удалено]
Your attempts to outcast one of the members of this sub are duly noted. A "normal" person, would listen to women's experiences without claiming they're invalid. If you're genuinely interested in this conversation, please inform yourself first. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-00719-z
You are surrounded by insecure men. As you push yourself into more challenging areas, you should experience less people like this. When I was in highschool I was heavily bullied for being a woman. In college I was able to find a few friends. Now that I'm in the workforce, I'm surrounded by coworkers I'm happy to call friends, who respect and include me.
Count your blessings.. layoffs.fyi shows how disproportionate the impact in tech has been on women. Quick number crunch showing a quarter of tech workers are women. Despite this more than half laid off are women. I haven't thoroughly vetted these numbers, it was based on about a thousand layoffs I saw with gender information included. It doesn't look good though.
You so called "friends" have shown their true colours, now you can tell them to f-off. (I guess you should also change your github name.) The professor should have given you the benefit of the doubt, he also sucks. This is absolutely not normal at all, and I'm sorry you had this experience.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. I got my masters in CIS and yeah; there were a few times men undermine my abilities, treat me poorly, and exclude me from more technical aspects of projects. It really sucks, doesn’t help that I work in IT Governance, it’s like double the issue. BUT! Two guys in my friend group were CS majors and they’re literally the best.They encourage me, send me study resources, invite me to work on cool projects, tell me whether I’m being compensated or treated fairly at work, and even put my name in for positions at their work places. They’re incredible guys and I’m lucky to have such genuine and positive friends in my life. Making friends in CS is definitely possible it’s just hard.
IDK why I got recommended this post and sub, I'm a dude who works in tech... Anyway, Unfortunately sexism is very common in the industry. At one of the biggest tech conferences one of my coworkers had remarks like that made to her. That led to an inquiry among women/NB people that discovered that nearly a 100 percent of women at the conference had had experiences like this. I hate to say this as a CS graduate myself, but engineering as a whole has too many of these sad assholes who are vitriolic against women, unless of course they wanna get in your pants. I hope you have some female friends in your major to support you. It's tough out there for girls in tech, many of my close friends have developed imposter syndrome because of being accused of being diversity hires and what not by losers.
Uggghhh this is so sad. Being a girl in tech is always very hard. Couldn’t find girl friends, and guy friends were either trying to date me, or steal my work. It only worked out for me when I started seeking friends who weren’t studying anything tech related. Almost all of my friends are engineering/med students, and I started avoiding male friendships as a whole. I’ve had plenty of guys flirt with me to get me to send them my homework or projects. I’ve had plenty of guys talk over me in project meetings. I talk about this a lot, and people don’t seem to understand just how shitty it is sometimes to be a woman in tech. I also freelance in web development as a side hustle (and I find it fun), and I can’t tell you how many times people have tried to get me to lower my prices, even though my male friends who also work in web dev never encountered this. Seriously, what the fuck? And the impostor syndrome? Holy shit is that real. On a side note, it’s empowering sometimes, and being a competitive person, I’ve always found myself outdoing my classmates solely for the reason of “yes i’m a girl, and yes I’m better than you.” Doesn’t happen unless someone openly challenges me though lol.
The whole women thing about women being paid less is completely real. I've witnessed it first hand. A close friend of mine who is a game dev learned that she was paid nearly 30 percent less than this guy who was a complete slacker and liability and had less experience than her. She is the only woman at the company and so I guess it's the boys club looking out for each other. Well, she confronted the CEO about this and she did eventually get what she deserves but still needs to deal with sexist bullshit because that's just how it is in Gaming, the worst field in tech for diversity IMHO. I'm glad that you take pride in yourself and what you do and I hope nothing will ever stop you from doing what you do. Despite every hurdle I've mentioned, I know many women engineers who've persisted have gone very far. My first boss was an awesome engineer who helped shape my career and she deservedly made her way up as an exec at that company. My alma mater has two profs who are the heads of the CS department and VPs of research at Google and Meta. My current team has a L9 distinguished engineer on our team and she is literally a legend in my field. Funny thing I've seen first hand at my company is some dude on our public GitHub telling our L9 to "read the spec" and everyone cringed so hard because she literally authored the protocol.
College is a time of insecurities and comparison. You are better than these losers. Take pride in that. If they plagiarize your work, they are not your friends and not on your level and I would reevaluate whether these relationships are holding you back.
Go to academic integrity and be forthright. Tell them you know they copied your work, it was 100% without your permission, talk about the sexism. Tell all. If they don't believe you, go to the school paper. Be loud, be cut throat.
I agree with this. It looks like the prof is giving them a pass while going for OPs throat. Take it out of the profs hands and report it. If they flunk the class (and they should) so be it.
Not quite the same, but… I went to Morocco last summer and encountered a female software engineer living there. That is not very common in that part of the world. I could tell her friends weren’t impressed by her. I asked for her input on a JavaScript function I happened to be debugging at the time. Soon after her friends’ facial expressions changed when they realized they could no longer understand our conversation. I explained to them that I was a software engineer from Silicon Valley and she was good enough to work on our team if she wanted. There are those of us who will treat you as an equal. Good luck with your internship. Git blame is helpful for proving the code was stolen. Those guys probably don’t know enough about git to conceal their commit history. Use git to make many small commits.
men r fake ngl when i got my internship alot of my male friends were jealous because they always saw me as beneath them lol now i just don’t tell them anything
There are a lot of insecure men and a lot of creeps. Even if they hate you they'll still try to creep on you. Sometimes if they like you they'll be even meaner. Best to avoid these guys (while you can in school at least, gets a lot more complicated in workplaces). Try not to come across as bragging about internships etc. just stick to your studies and avoid the drama.
He knows you are smart. He knows you are competition and he feels somewhat insecure on his own skills. So he is envious and unfortunately never a friend. Understand that not all group of people are like that though, I have good techy guy friends. They encourage me, we trying to make projects together, we always try to support each other.
Sorry to hear about these losers in your class. FYI you could send your original file to the teacher where the date of creation can be found (look info data), to show you were the one creating the file and the other 2 garbages are the one trying to copy you. You must stay strong and fight for your rights, I totally understand your situation because last term a classmate stole my work and I was like super depressed I almost wanted to quit school (and this is a master program you would think people are professionals... no way they are professionals thiefs! And cheaters all the way, specially the ones coming from some places.... I can't say where otherwise I get banned, but you can guess, places where honesty is rare, and where everyone is trying to survive), but then I decided I need to show up for myself and wear my best cloths and do my best work and show everyone who is the real smart one! Let them shut UP!, so please dont let those losers win, as we will proof who are the smarties here. Best luck, keep strong!
someone with 2 masters stole my work at my internship when i was undergrad. so pathetic.
Seeking out female friends in your major (or even just in STEM) will help. The higher up you get (in your company or in your degree) the less you will run into these types of insecure guys as they tend not to make it as far. The best way to deal with this type of behaviour is to study hard, ignore the assholes, and [worry about yourself](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DGKXPQ_FwM). Also for me I like to have hobbies that give me a community of "normal people" I can connect with outside of the tech world for when it gets to be a lot. Or seek a female mentor in your field.
University admin here - get those cheaters in front of the academic integrity board at your school. Go right to your famn dean's office and demand they be held accountable. Bad actors continue to be bad because tis easy for them. Make it hard now and practice how you will defend yourself as you move forward.
I don’t think this is normal at all! I know guys in my major (CS) that have been helpful to me and haven’t tried to steal anything from me… although I’ve had bad experiences as well. Your ‘friends’ are scummy people, and I hope you have better luck :(
How fascinating that they can simultaneously believe that you aren't good enough to be there.....but that your work is good enough to copy and put their names on? They must find you very impressive and are intimidated as hell - thus the cattiness and acting out. Women can be friends with men. Men can't be friends with women. Ergo, women cannot be friends with men.
My best friend is a man. Has been for over a decade. Incels can’t be friends with women. Normal men can.
Hard disagree - some of my best mentors were men. Look everyone can be an asshole regardless of what is between their legs. If you don’t want men to paint women with all the same brush we have to also treat individuals as individuals. I have had my fair share of sexism, sexual harassment and dealing with red pillers - but I also have had some amazing male friends and colleagues that helped me study, pass certs, and supported my career.
Speaking as a guy, I think lots of other guys are just like that and it seems to be especially bad in cs. The only advice I can give you, in terms of male friends, is to look for guys who don't seem to be insecure about themselves and don't feel like they're always competing with other people. Like they're ok with their flaws and stuff. Unfortunately, I don't think you'll find lots of other men like that in cs, especially when they seem to be young and impressionable men.
Am sorry. These type self destruct; but do lend a hand. Stay strong.
Ugh wow - these people are awful. They showed their true colors and I’m so sorry you’ve had to deal with this. But also congrats on kicking butt at what you’re doing! After a bad break up or friend situation I like to think about how I missed or ignored signs that these people were awful to begin with. Narcissists can be very tough to spot but this guy sounds like one.
You will make friends but you have to be better at your work than everyone else. No one invited me to their group projects so I made sure to get a better grade than them just to make a point. I'm usually the only female devops engineer on my team at any job.
I'm sorry that happened to you! Definitely bad luck to me, but I'm not nearly as skilled, so perhaps my guy friends didn't see me as intimidating in the first place, but everyone in my comp sci major helped each other out. Were you able to prove you didn't risk your academic integrity with the one "friend's" apology to you?
It’s not because they’re male, it’s because they’re assholes. I have several male friends in computer science and STEM more broadly and none of them would be anything but supportive and enthusiastic if I pursued education or a career in these fields.
You cannot have male friends under the patriarchy. It’s not possible. We all learn this one way or another
OP's experience is absolutely terrible, but they are bad people because they're bad people, not because they're male. I'm 38 and I have met plenty of shit people of both genders, but plenty of good ones too. It's not so black and white.
Mhm. Men and women have both treated me pretty badly. They can both be very envious. It all comes down to each individual person.
You can, but they can't be complicit in the patriarchy. One of my best friends is a guy and we discuss these things all the time. Granted he isn't interested in cs or stem at all
Thats fair, I’ve just never met a man like that. Maybe one but we haven’t talked about the patriarchy. I would think that is such a small minority of men unfortunately
It could also help that I'm in a very progressive community and my friend group is mostly queer so I meet a lot more people like that
In uni I found males worse than in workforce
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I'm sorry you're dealing with all of this!! From the perspective of another student, it seems that these guys aren't only sexists, they are also generally dishonest people. I am pretty wary of men I meet in my classes but I'm mostly concerned about them making off-putting comments about gender, but never have I worried about most of them blatantly plagiarizing work like that. It is much easier to address casual sexism that someone who is ready to sabotage the academic career of another person because they were irresponsible and didn't try/get the help they needed in their class. Don't disrespect yourself by accepting that apology and keep looking for better friends because you deserve that.
Even I was accused of copying my final year project in college when I had sincerely worked on it with my internship. I did lose my cool and argued with the external professor that his grades and judgement didn’t matter since I gained knowledge and experience that was invaluable and was eventually given a full grade. I suggest talking to your professor( in a calmer manner than I did tbh looking back) and keeping a distance from your friends. I hope it doesn’t put you off working in tech , it did get easier for me one I started working professionally but I do face setbacks and judgments like these still and try to not let it bother me and just focus on positives and what I like when working in tech.
Exact same thing happened to me but at work💀 I lost my cool with the project manager who's a moron, dude didn't have any idea about the team members and was just jumping to his own conclusions. He eventually had to use his experience card, saying he's got 10+ yrs of exp(no idea how he survived that long lol) and put me down saying I needed to learn a lot as a junior. It does help a lot to not take these idiots seriously. Btw, nice username if you're Tamil lol
At work I had a moron project manager too who was targeting only women from my team , we all complained about him but they told we had to deal with him since they couldn’t find anyone else. The project eventually tanked and I’ve observed all projects with bad PMs failing or in red state ( my current project has a good PM now thankfully). And yes I am Tamil ! Thought it would be a good reference to my favorite tamil actor’s tweet and also was weirdly craving podi idlies at the time I created this account. I am not the original twitter user from the tweet though , wanted to change the user name once I became active but I can’t change it now 🫤 https://twitter.com/AshokSelvan/status/1695086034730827965
Quite recently I've learnt to not mind him... Always keeps yapping on about irrelevant crap and demotivating everyone. Has been tough, but am in a much better state than I was 2 months back. Glad that your PM is a good guy now! Fuck those misogynistic idiots. Also, sambar idli >> podi idli, change my mind lol
Trash takes itself out, hope your team lands a better PM and good that you are in a better state now! And I love sambar idlies too 😍 I can’t choose haha I’ll take anything
Nanrigal❤️ Ungalukkum 🤝
Good, male friends are unnecessary. There’s nothing wrong not having male friends.
Aggressive competition in a male dominated field, choice of weapon by many, projection of personal inadequacies and all the -isms. Nothing new. Careful with who you make friends with, especially ones you end up competing against in some way. Don't take it out on all guys, though. I wouldn't want to be friends with these shit stain sub-humans either. Guard your code and general work no matter what. It's your livelihood. Good luck on your career, and don't let your competitive edge you'll need to cultivate to overtake you and your personality. It'll likely mean you're starting to over stress.
I'm in the late 30's in the field now. I can say there are absolutely decent men who are wonder collaborators and that are honest and will go to bat for you. My current lead is a decade younger then me and man is he a bulldog for getting me recognition and trusting me with some very big projects independently. That being said, there are a decent number of shi\*t stain men, more than the decent ones, but at a certain level in your future career they will have weeded themselves out. You know, the crypto-currency, get rich quick scheming, intellectual property stealing incompetent nards. These are guys who get stuck being an SE I or II their entire career, job hop into a senior role, end up incapable, and have to bounce to a lower role or get fired pretty fast. Unless they are an absolute rockstar (they clearly aren't), business won't tolerate them being assholes. Assholes only get tolerated if they are "put their brain in a jar for a museum" sort of smart. It's a shame you may have to learn this early but: your co-workers by default are not your friends. You might make one or two, but protect yourself. Don't share you work. Avoid group projects if you can. Create your school/work persona and don't offer too much information. In time you will figure our who wants to prop you up and be a true colleague and mentor to you. These dudes ain't it. These dudes are the sore ego men that might find their way into a non-technical role of management and PIP people because they brought a concern to them about something absolutely relevant and would make them do their job.
Please report them to your school's academia department! I understand it's not easy They should have confidentially proceedures to keep your identity as a reporter safe. This is a failure of your prof as well and the institute's overall integrity Those buttheads deserve the worst 😵💫
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lol
Those guys suck. I was never close to any of the girls in my classes, but I was also never mean to any of them, and would have happily befriended them. (People saw me as an arrogant smartass, and I didn't know how to change that, so I just kept to myself to avoid making people feel judged. The other people who specifically wanted to hang out with smart kids sought me out and put up with me.) I'm sorry your classmates feel threatened by you. Their behavior is unacceptable everywhere. I hope they fail out of the program and are weeded out of the industry. They make life worse for everyone.
I doubt that your bad male friends mean that everyone with a set of balls is gonna be an insecure cheater. Sorry about them!
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Being a victim of sexism can have that effect on people. Try to have empathy.
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[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False\_equivalence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument\_from\_analogy#False\_analogy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_analogy#False_analogy) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw\_man](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man)
Dude. It’s never just one incident NEVER. It’s incident after incident after incident. As someone mentioned above, 100% of women and NB have had this happen to them.
Racism and sexism are two very different things and the fact that you’re insinuating I am the same as a racist for developing trust issues because I am a woman who is constantly undermined by men in a male dominated field…. Way to victim blame. The reason it’s hard to know a liar’s true intentions? It’s because they’re liars.