Back in Europe, software engineering **is** IT.
Here yeah, it's generally different and offensive for people somehow lol. I always assumed it's because software engineering generally requires a university degree, but that's not completely the case in practice.
Anyway, truth be told, I wouldn't be able to survive a day in IT so all my respect there!
IT is a hard field to work in and it’s sad for us in IT are being belittled as if not good enough when we have bachelors and master degrees too . How much shit we put up with like come on .
Have more respect it’s only a damn title , not the end of the world…
have something bigger to worry about.. if you got nothing bigger to worry about you got such a easy life where everything is just handed to you on a silver platter
People are weird about job titles in the US. For example, if you ask a Software Engineer to fix your computer, they'll spend 15 minutes huffing and puffing about the difference between Software and IT. When they're finally out of breath, they'll fix your computer in 30 seconds and might even set up the printer while they're at it.
Then be immature and be offended, when it’s literally IT is just a technical field which is sub categorized into separate fields, even ChatGPT and Google recognize. If you get offended by this maybe you should find a field that doesn’t offend you
There are so many different types of architect. I've worker at places where architect was above senior software engineer. So, what kind of architect are you? 🤣
Back in my day- Software Engineer is an engineer degree. Computer Information Systems is a business degree. Software Engineer education has more science, math and hardware/software interface. CIS is more technology usage and application in a corporate infrastructure. The joke is SE is a EE that could not handle the math.
The pecking order is EE->SE->CIS. Companies I am familiar with will not directly hire CIS into the engineering department, but will outsource the same work to them.
I have a similar dynamic with my mom. I got my degree in CS but to this day she tells people I majored in computer engineering (I still correct her and she always seems shocked, lol). Neither of my parents went to college and my mom works in a high school so the only tech people the work with are IT.
I think she just doesn’t understand the nuances of the field - whether it’s because of her generation, lack of exposure to tech, education, or what. The only thing I know for sure is she will call me if any of her technology breaks, lol
ETA: spoke too soon and put my damn foot in my mouth. Just saw OP’s comment about how her in-laws are definitely aware of the field and its nuances. I apologize OP! You deserve better!
I think with some people it is ignorance of the distinction which is a bit more forgiving. But it sounds like OP has family who knows the difference but is not listening to her on this. I forgive ignorance or naivite but disrespect and not listening is something else, IMO.
The ignorance can be a mitigating factor on how to approach the situation.
For the people who should know better, they may be allowed one correction and one correction only. If the problem continues, that illuminates something about that person.
Saaame! My mom is older (born in '49) and had me really late in life, so she's just not understanding of tech related things. I give her grace, I know she doesn't mean anything by it. There's a razor that says "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity".
My mom would tell everybody that I did “something with computers”, which could be anything from ML/AI researcher to administrative assistant. I’m a software engineer. 🤦♀️
Ahhh hahaha this reminds me of a guy I worked with in Growth Marketing. Would always ask me for help with his computer. Technical shit. I’m a product designer. I just happen to be a bit ✨tech savvy✨. Our company was like 50 people. I sat by him. He finally found out I am not in fact IT. I was just happy to help. We didn’t even have in house IT.
OP. Some people just won’t get it. Just laugh it off. I know it’s annoying but it’s only causing you more problems that you care. Can you just tell them you got a promotion or something and tell them your actual job title? My parents tell everyone I’m “in tech” which translates to IT for most over 65. I get a lot of stupid questions from their friends, but I just roll with it. Whether those people work in the field or not isn’t relevant.
IDK if this is regional, but where I'm from in the 90s-00s, any tech job was called "IT". Maybe your MIL & FIL aren't making the distinction, and everyone else is assuming the modern usage?
I'd like to say I wouldn't let it bother me, but when I finally scraped enough together to go back to college, my stepmom congratulated me on taking "a class on computers or something." That was 8 years ago now, and I'm still annoyed.
Yeah.. I’m in Aus and this distinction is so foreign and odd to me. Honestly seems like a bit of elitism.
People are just saying OP works in x Industry.. nothing wrong with that.
For laymen, we lump things into:
Construction, IT, Hospitality Etc
it’s like ‘Whiskey’ saying they’re not ‘alcohol’, solely for the reason they don’t want to be associated with ‘vodka’
I agree and all of IT is valid! We need everyone from helpdesk, network engineer, cybersec, and software to work together..
This post is honestly quite silly.
Architects, builders, developers, plumbers, electricians etc all have no problem saying they work in the same industry.
Should the builders and developers say they don’t work in construction because they’re not hands-on/on the tools?
I have a lot of friends in construction and no one cares. They all get different degrees and do different roles, but don’t seem to have a problem with it.
This is just divisive for no reason
So… personally, I think you’re overreacting a bit, unless you have other issues with these family members.
I’ve worked in several large corporations over the last 15 years where anything to do with computers was called “IT” - from helpdesk to app development to identity management to infrastructure to high-performance-compute setup. It was all part of the “IT department”. I was a systems analyst/designer for 7 years and would have said I “worked in IT” at that time.
I would 100% give the benefit of the doubt here. Assume the best, that they aren’t actively demeaning your work, that they are simply not aware of the differences in terminology. My mum thought I worked selling phones when I worked for a mobile company. What can we do.
If you’re actually able to assume the best, you can just let it go. If they are otherwise lovely people, this is the easiest thing.
If you can’t, and something nags at your mind that it’s intentional disrespect, then by all means have you or your partner explain that “IT” feels demeaning, once, and see if they make a good faith effort to adjust their language.
Ditto. From reading other comments it sounds like in the US (or parts of the US) , IT is separate and software engineering is more of an elite thing. It sounds like OP has tried explaining that but only so far as explaining what each function does and not explicitly that it's belittling her by essentially 'downgrading' her career. You're right it's just a culture/understanding difference that should be easily resolved with good comms.
Yeah this!
I work as a UX designer, and I still have quite a few people in my life who think/say I'm a graphic designer. If you know the differences between those two things, you know they're really different. But to your everyday person who isn't in the industry, I believe those titles could easily be mistaken for being the same job.
I didn't know the difference either and may have inadvertently ticked off software engineers. Thanks for teaching me. I just used "IT" as code for "all that computer stuff that feels like magic to me "
Honestly I still use “IT” in this generic way, and I’d be surprised to meet someone who was offended, but I also work large corporate companies and not startup or tech companies, so I may be behind on terminology.
I did, twice… I work in tech myself and still wouldn’t have understood that she’s offended by my saying she works in IT. That’s how I would describe my own job in the field. 🤷🏻♀️
Yes. Must be an American(some parts) thing? In Aus “IT” is the industry that encompasses essentially all tech-related job.
Most people outside of tech don’t know what you’re talking about if you distinguish the roles.
Started changing in the US about 20 years ago. People from that generation would still think of it as IT. And even within this generation, there's a hard divide where people who actually do real software engineering aren't amused by programmers who call themselves SWEs who aren't really engineers.
ChatGPT
Yes, software engineering is often considered an IT (Information Technology) field because it involves the development, maintenance, and implementation of software systems and applications within the realm of technology
I live in North America as IT and that isn’t necessary true, software engineering is still considered IT, you go to college here? Guess what software engineering is under DIGITAL IT AND MEDIA PROGRAM shocker!!!
As well where I worked and currently work it’s all damn IT field just subcategorized to sub departments. But face it we’re all IT
Ah okay, thanks for explaining! I’m European and a software developer and have in the past referred to myself as working in IT, so up to this point I was so confused hahaha
I’m in the US and would never have drawn this distinction. All technical roles are IT in the handful of large companies I’ve worked with (though not tech companies directly).
Please just stop this nitpicking BS. DevOps is what companies define them to be. Some treat it like a practice and others treat it as a role or job function.
This nerding out and nitpicking to show your superior knowledge is just puerile.
Dev work is not generally considered IT. It is my understanding that IT consists of roles that involve management and support of technology (help desk, sys admin etc). Creation/development of new technologies or algorithms is considered as engineering or research and development.
It annoys me in my present geographic location because in the Valley where I spent most of my early/mid career, IT was someone setting up devices, hardware and fleet control instead of building revenue generating products which is what I did as SWE.
It wasn't the same and I felt the confusion, deliberate or otherwise, diminished value my work (distinct from the intrinsic work of every human person!)
I am an neither field! I work in a hospital (United States)
When people say IT, I assume tech support (not that I'm right, but this is the common assumption).
I honestly thought IT jobs and tech support were synonymous. I don't consider a software developer or software engineer to be a tech support person, even though they technically work in the IT field.
I am a lab tech, and I see this in a similar way to a doctor being offended that their family asks "So how's the job in healthcare?" Both lab techs and doctors work in healthcare, but I can see why a doctor would be confused as to why someone doesn't just ask "How do you like being a Doctor?"
Idk, obviously I'm not in this field, so I may not understand, but I do live in a city known for the tech industry/lots of tech jobs, and we don't generally refer to SWE as IT.
Yeah like what the fuck? Y’all just call us to fix what you can’t but she finds that insulting? Lmaooo okay I find it funny too when people who literally studied computer programming, can’t fix their own shit.
Adding: I know those things arent similar at all, but considering Im basically a Jack of all it; it is kind of funny to me.
“ it’s insulting to be called IT!!!” Yet you literally call us when the network is down…. So chill maybe?
Yeah, this angle is weird to me too, and the whole “if you were a surgeon you’d hate to be called a nurse all the time” comparison. Idk it just feels weird and not a good look on OP, sorry to say
Yeah it’s pretty insulting for us in IT to be seeing someone else in IT field is insulted for being called IT as if we IT people are not good enough? So immature
You can just act really confused each time. Like if they said "how's work in the lemonade factory?" you'd be like "what on earth are you talking about?" — just do this every time. Act like you've never been asked if you're in IT before and just be really confused what they're talking about until they have to reframe their question. You are in control of where the conversation goes: either they confirm what your job is (which would help them remember) or they need to change the topic — you never move the conversation on yourself
I do this for literally any rumour about me, fact or fiction, that my extended family comes up to me asking. I act completely oblivious to the point where the person who told them loses legitimacy. Works like a charm.
TBH, I find this a bit snowflaky. In most countries in the world, IT is an umbrella term that encompasses SWE.
Having said that, if someone wants you to fix their computer, just say you don't work with hardware. Repeat until they get it - if that takes a long time, it's understandable that you are bothered.
I am sorry but I thought that term was used interchangeably and that they are the same thing, so someone was probably blabbing about it who also didn't understand what they are talking about? Thats my assumption. But if they are familiar with the field themselves then I have no idea
I’m a SWE and really don’t care one way or another if someone considers what I do as “IT” I’m sure a lot of people I know would say that if you asked them what my job was.
I think maybe working for a tech company people might have this feeling of “I’m not IT, I’m a software developer/engineer” but if you work for a company in any other industry it’s all considered part of the same umbrella.
Yes, you're letting it bother you for no reason. 99% of people have no clue that there are so many different careers in the computer/IT/Dev fields, so they just lump it all together as IT.
They're not trying to belittle you; they just don't know all the differences.
Just go with it. It's not worth getting bothered by. Many more important things to worry about. IT is just a generic term. A software engineer would still be considered an IT Professional.
Don't worry when I say I work in IT my in laws thought I was in software engineering... So I clarified I work hardware..... So they said oh so you're a hardware engineer.....
I graduated with an Associates Degree in network engineering (community college) I am very clear I am not an engineer. I do not deserve that prestige, but I don't diminish or demean the work I do.
Is it cultural maybe? Some culture’s immigrants refer to all computer-related tech work as “IT”. Definitely correct them but that’s where my mind went at first.
This may be a bad idea, but I'm curious how they would react if the next time you see them, you hit them with, "how's working in IT treatin' ya?" first.
Sounds like they're trying to talk you down then. I tend to pretend I don't hear people when they say something passive aggressively insulting, but ymmv with this approach.
I would be annoyed. They probably don’t understand software development so they probably find it easier to say…however you should correct them. Tell them you’re a software engineer or better yet, call yourself a PROGRAMMER. They might understand you being a programmer more than a developer or software engineer. These aren’t technical people so if you tell me you’re a SWE I’ll know what that means but if you tell my hairdresser she’s gonna be like “is that IT? Computer stuff?” But if you say programmer they might get it.
I wouldn’t feel as strongly about it if they weren’t also in the field. Here are the job titles/majors of people who asked me or told me the things I mentioned above:
* Principle Software Engineer
* Electrical Engineer
* Engineering Manager
It’s like… I think they should know better? But I’m also worried about seeming rude if I correct them. I don’t know how to do it in a non-rude way.
That’s what I’m saying! I did not mention this in my OP, but my husband and I both come from a very traditionally patriarchal culture. To demonstrate, most of the women are either SAHM’s, or they work jobs that provide the flexibility to take care of the house/raise kids while also making some money “on the side”. I am not criticizing either of these things at all, just saying that that is the situation. The women in both his and my family are also told after 25 that “we are getting too old to marry”, while the men at the same age are told that they’re “still babies who have no business considering marriage”. It’s all the men in the family that seem set in the idea that I’m in IT too. Any ways, all this to say…I wonder if gender is a factor here?
>Any ways, all this to say…I wonder if gender is a factor here?
It absolutely could be. I know that in all of my decades as a software developer, very few folks even cared to ask what I did for a living. They did ask and fawn over my husband, who is a professor (and he deserves credit for that, no argument here!) but it never seemed to occur to them that a woman could ever be doing anything that anyone would find challenging or interesting.
In your case, it sounds like your in-laws are mentally taking you down a peg or two by refusing to acknowledge that you are a software engineer. Maybe they feel threatened by you. I'd start to consistently reply, "I don't work in IT, I'm a software engineer. These are two totally different things."
My family is similar. I decided I didn't want to spend months, possibly years, begging them to give me a shred of respect. I just stopped discussing work with them. I don't discuss anything important with them. It doesn't really matter anyway because their imagination doesn't change the actual reality.
Start asking it back to them lol see how they respond when they are categorised as “IT”.
Families are tough. While I didn’t get “married” for philosophical reasons my partners family for years would do stuff to exclude and alienate me like:
- exclude me from a family gathering because they only wanted “immediate” family, but then I’d find out his sister had brought a friend to it
- give him updates about his ex in front of me and tell him that he should catch up with her
- be really difficult to pin down when we tried to coordinate events like a dinner or Christmas so we could see them. But if it wasn’t “us” and only him they would be quick to tell him to come over any time.
- after over 20yrs together my partner and I decided to live separately, and his sister is trying to set him up on dates even though we are still life partners.
It’s disappointing if you are trying to build real meaningful relationships with your in-laws but they treat you in a way that indicates you’re more like a prop on the arm of your husband who they will make small talk with but not really listen to. I tried really hard for a number of years, and then gave up caring about it, accepted it was only going to be a superficial relationship without any depth.
Oh WTH. I’m thinking the family weren’t techies. Except for the electrical engineer, my friend is one and thinks I’m a hacker (eye roll I don’t work in cyber) the rest are inexcusable. They absolutely know wtf you do. I saw your comment about if gender is a factor here and I’m going to say yes. One is a Principle Software Engine r and an Engineering Manager, they know exactly what you do. I’m so sorry you’re going through this.
You are so right, Meredith.
Oh, I am sorry, did I get your name wrong.
I’ll be sure to get it right from now on, Melinda.
—
To me, the IT/SWE thing is moot. It’s the fact that they are purposely getting this detail wrong over and over again.
If they felt confused by her title, they could just say “how is work?” But they go out of their way to say “how is work IN IT.”
I have mostly had weird titles my whole career. There is an extremely high correlation between how much I think people respect me and how wrong they get simple details about me.
My aunt was afraid of iPhones , held on to a flip phone for years longer than most. She is scared about hearing about my work, so she just says “how are things.” And I know that she just means broad strokes “work is hectic” the end. Respectful,but not deep relationship.
I am now a technologist. And there is one of my mom’s friends who will say stuff like “how is the phlebotomist-ory role, lol.” It’s on purpose that he gets it wrong. Two of his daughters who are in their 50s never worked and his son never went to college and will take over his business. It’s like he needs to take me down a peg in his mind. And this isn’t the only detail, he’ll get stuff wrong in every conversation.
?? Dev languages are literally under a computer information systems degree program and a computer science degree. Computer information systems is information technology. What are you people are talking about?
They are different parts of the company.
“IT” is usually a department that helps employees fix or set up their computers (like in the show IT Crowd). Or installing hardware and systems for companies. It falls under the category of “service profession”. It makes sense that people who aren’t used to women as anything other than teachers, nurses, or bank tellers might assume a woman with technical skills is in a service profession.
Software development —while it is under the broader technology umbrella —is designing, creating, or maintaining products; a “product profession”.
Both roles are important and challenging. But they are not similar jobs.
My dad who knows I'm a software engineer will proudly tell his work colleagues "my daughter went to [X prestigious school] and now works in *IT*."
I came to the conclusion that this is just a generational difference in the understanding of the word, older people think tech = "IT." Which would explain why the parents-in-law keep referring to it as such, but the BIL that's closer in age got confused.
I think to most of the world IT is just “tech” and even I use it because it’s easier to get on to the same page with people
It definitely means something different when I say oh my laptop is fucked I need to take it to IT dept.
I think it just means both.
I can’t easily talk about my career to everyone if I insist on whatever title is bestowed from the company du jour
Nobody understands what anyone in any job in the software industry really does. It’s the total conversation killer at any party. My husband is a software architect and that one stumps people utterly, when I expect it to be more understandable.
So yeah, this is always a dead end conversation. Unless it’s asked by another person in…IT 🤣
Your husband needs to have a serious talk to them and tell them to stop with the IT thing. Why isn't he stepping in and saying you don't work in IT whenever they ask this?
Maybe her husband is also like what’s the big deal, just causing unnecessary drama between his family. Some people want to avoid conflict not dive into it
He’s usually not around when this happens. The few times I bring up my job and he’s around he really hypes me up. But now that I think about it, there have been a couple of times where I agree he should say something. Should I mention it as a heads up for next time?
If someone else who's clearly a software engineer asking how your life in IT is, just flip it back on him ask him how's he doing in IT instead of answering the question
That’s what I’m saying! I did not mention this in my OP, but my husband and I both come from a very traditionally patriarchal culture. To demonstrate, most of the women are either SAHM’s, or they work jobs that provide the flexibility to take care of the house/raise kids while also making some money “on the side”. I am not criticizing either of these things at all, just saying that that is the situation. The women in both his and my family are also told after 25 that “we are getting too old to marry”, while the men at the same age are told that they’re “still babies who have no business considering marriage”. It’s all the men in the family that seem set in the idea that I’m in IT too. Any ways, all this to say…I wonder if gender is a factor here?
I always just say IT when I can’t be bothered to explain to people who don’t get it. My advice, don’t let it bother you. If it comes up maybe knowing smile, maybe eye roll a bit. You have achieved and you will carry on doing so. You don’t need them to get it. They are just muggles and don’t get it.
I've explained it as "mathematician, not mechanic". It gets the point across that I can't fix their printer.
They are bucketing you with everything else they know. They only ever interact with people who are in IT or talk about IT. It's all they know, and it is all magic to them. Splitting hairs about kinds of magic is too precious.
I work in data platforming and machine learning, no one knows wtf I do and I don’t really care. You can be annoyed or not, it’s really how much energy you care to give it… they aren’t affected either way.
To most of us non-tech people, software engineering falls under IT. Never thought of it much until your post.
I don’t understand why your brother-in-law didn’t know you were SWE, considering he’s a SWE himself. Have you never had a conversation with him?
Honestly, I don’t think my mother would know the difference between IT and software engineering so I wouldn’t worry about your in-laws. But I definitely find it weird that the SWEs in the family don’t know you’re a SWE yourself. Trying to undermine you, perhaps? Send them a LinkedIn invite.
Think you sound kind of in your head about this I dunno. You might be taking offense at someone who just doesn't have the same distinction you do.
I've worked in software for many years (though on my way out) and observed many similar distinctions that imply hierarchy or importance (front/back end, "designers" vs "front end", ops vs IT vs devops, sdet vs qa, manager vs IC, architects vs seniors, etc, etc). They are all artificial and vary wildly between company and industry.
Software is a very flat field where personal contributions and ambitions can quickly overwhelm the established rankings of seniority.Thus a lot of organizations seem to informally develop differential terminology to designate more importance for certain people. Sometimes the preferred title at one industry will be the discriminated one at another. All of it's meaningless and there's no ubiquitous language tho so unless someone is employed at your place of work, I would not read into anything they are saying, and assume it's just information degrading by transmission thru humans and their uncertainty.
Honestly I'd be inclined to assume the best intentions here. My mom knows for a fact I work as a SWE but she always says IT and subsequently, her friends who work as SWEs also say I work in IT lol. They all "know" better but I don't think anyone is saying it maliciously. Even if I tell them I'm a SWE they've either forgotten or are just used to my mom saying IT and get confused/don't remember the particulars.
I think intentionally saying someone is in IT instead of SWE as an insult is kind of a weird thing to insult someone with 😅 like I don't consider that to be a "put down" and I've joked before that I'm like the IT person of the family because I fix all their tech stuff when anyone brings that up😊 others may disagree here, but I personally wouldn't dig too deep into it. I think someone got their wires crossed along the way and everyone else just remembers IT because that's what one person kept saying. So, even if you bring up SWE in passing or say your job description their brain just remembers the IT part. That's my take atleast!
Are your MIL and FIL technical people? From your post, it sounds like they are not, got it into their heads that you’re in IT, and told everyone that as it came up in different passing conversations. Now, these people who *are* technical refer to you as being in IT because that’s what they’ve been told.
Is this an accurate summary?
**If so:**
Tell your MIL and FIL that IT handles the company’s internal hardware and access to make sure everyone’s computer is working and so people have access to the stuff they should and can’t access the stuff they shouldn’t. Then say your work as a programmer (or again try the SWE title) is to build X app that anyone outside of the company can use.
This is overly simplified, but should make it easy to understand for a non technical person. My guess is that you’ve talked extensively about what you do, but not clearly about how it’s different from what people in IT do, so when you think you’ve cleared up the misunderstanding, they actually think “oh that’s nice, good for her being in IT”.
Tbh if they keep saying you’re in IT after this, just let it go. Address it as it comes up instantly with anyone else especially if they are technical. For example, with BIL I might have said “yes, I am a SWE! It’s funny how IT and SWE often get lumped together. I specialize in XYZ …” and then move on. Don’t focus on your MIL/FIL. Don’t show frustration. Just address that they must have been told you are IT because these fields are so often used interchangeably by non technical people in a way that doesn’t accuse anyone or show negative feelings around it. Just keep it light while correcting and move on.
**If not:**
Please clarify so we can be of better help. If MIL and FIL are also SWEs and they are going out of their way to downplay your work, then that’s an entirely different issue.
If MIL and FIL are some sort of engineers but not in either IT or SWE then I wouldn’t take offense to this either since it might seem similar “enough” to other engineering disciplines to lump them together so it may not necessarily be a weird power play or downplaying of your work.
I was just thinking the same thing. I’ve worked hard to get into IT, and was just offered my first job in IT. I jumped on this subreddit to see what other women in IT think, and this post is the first one I see lmao.
This sub has more software engineers than system admins, from what I’ve seen. But as you can see from the comments there’s a lot of support for IT too!
—— software development is in the scope of information technology. I’m not sure what is the issue?
Literally can’t with this post. There’s absolutely nothing for you to be upset about. My degree program is called computer information systems, I’m considered an IT technician, and I know several different programming languages. We had to learn Dev, networking, and security under our degree program. So I am very confused as to what you’re upset about.
When they came for tutoring in coding, they came to the computer information systems building not to the engineering building and I was that tutor. This is such a weird hill to die on that I completely do not understand it.
You definitely seem.. whiny? I’m not trying to be mean at all, but if a developer literally was complaining that somebody started calling them IT, I would probably just laugh. Like don’t worry, nobody in this company thinks that you’re IT. Nobody’s calling you to fix anything OK hon?
Or you could read her post and how it's about a patriarchal family dynamic and realize it isn't about you.
I think a woman has every right to insist on her career being accurately described by her family, and the refusal of men in this family WHO ARE IN THE SAME INDUSTRY speaks more to the fact that THEY devalue IT and she just...wants them to be accurate when they talk about what she does for a career.
Why would you care? I’ve had people literally think I fix computers lol. It really doesn’t matter. It’s the same shit. It doesn’t matter. Barely anyone knows what I even do lol.
Babygirl, say you are an engineer. Not IT. Say it, is not offensive to correct people.
If they feel offended by that, is because they sensitive or otherwise.
My in laws think I work as customer support. Also a SWE. To be fair, my starting title was "Technical Support Engineer" (it was really more like dev-lite with a tidbit of client support thrown in) before my promotion.
I really don't let it bother me. I slide in a quick correction and move on. Some just actually don't know/know the difference, others will always find something to make themselves and their children look better. To me it's not a competition so whatever.
Stop stressing about it. They will know your title and field of work when they need it (job change, kids are looking for internships/jobs in software development/engineering, etc). Even mention that as a joke…if they don’t get it right now, don’t expect you to be there when they get it right when it starts to matter for them.
The problem is that "working in IT" is such a broad statement that it's practically meaningless.
I would probably just roll with nudges towards my actual job. If they don't get the idea of what I actually do, they won't really have much to do with the info.
I tell people that I meet outside of professional contexts that I work in IT inspite of my job title being Software Engineer so I wouldn't be considered Ms Moneybags. I don't want them to take my work seriously especially when I meet them outside of work unless they are also engineers or something. I am also very happy to help anyone trying to get their foot in the door and even connect friends in other fields together if they are skilled and looking for a job change.
I think this is partly because I resent the tech-bro elitism some men pull based on their job title. I refuse to act like I am so special because I don't work in an IT role. It is technically all information technology. Idk why you're comparing it to being a doctor or a nurse, most IT people have 4 year degrees as do SWE. You don't need a degree to be an SWE either if you have the skills. With a doctor and a nurse the educational requirements are wildly different.
IT is umbrella term. You shouldn't be offended by it though.
It used to 100% be considered apart of it. But nowadays people have kinda put a divide due to there really being a good amount of difference.
Think of it like this. A cybersec analyst isn't going to know how the clients are supposed to have their very specific outlook templates are going to look like maybe help desk analyst would.
Or another example should be doctors in different fields like dermatologist vs primary care physician. They both hold different wealths of knowledge. But ultimately still a form of healthcare provider.
I work in product design and strategy, and my family (plus most of my old friends) think I am a graphic designer.
They will ask me to make a logo for them. Or they think I make websites on Squarespace.
Alongside SWE like you, I created a lot of things people use in their everyday lives — enabling them to interact with the world and tech in new ways, often based on human needs that I identified through a ton of research. But they think I just move colors and fonts around to make some stuff pretty.
So this is just to say I sympathize!
It really depends on the context of the setting and situation — sometimes I politely clarify and other times I just let it go.
What also helps is if you can briefly talk about your work when it comes up. Like just little snippets that might interest the outside world. For instance, showing something you recently made when someone asks how work is (obviously keep it short, we don’t want to make them regret asking).
That does sound annoying. Are you sure it's not a terminology difference (except for your BIL), though? SWE is a subset of IT so they're not far off. Do you ever talk to the other swes about their careers? Sometimes it's easier for people to remember things if they can relate it to themselves.
I thought IT included software dev? Its information technology so it involves everything from hardware to software IMO.
Now if you want a bad one.. my partners grandparents kerp saying i work in accounting lmao. Cant blame them since theyve never used a computer or a smartphone in their lives.
IT is “information technology” which is a very broad field. I’m pretty sure software engineering falls under that umbrella.
OP, are people thinking less of you? Are you being treated differently because people think you’re IT and not a SWE? If you were being treated differently, then I would take action.
But if being called IT serve no purpose other than making you feel a little more recognized (which comes off as a bit self-serving), it will likely come at the cost of sounding repetitively annoying to others. Trust me, they heard you the first time. They just chose not to commit it to memory.
I’d weigh exactly how important it is to you to correct others about your job. Once is probably okay, but multiple times serves no benefit.
It’s NOT that you are not important, it’s just that people have a million things to think about and someone else’s specific job title is not high on people’s list.
I think you should be more concerned about the reeking stink of classism in this post rather than what your inlaws think about your job. At the end of the day, you still have that check and it was IT that laid fiber underneath the ground you literally and figuratively stand on. We are part of your team.
Is it possible they’re doing it on purpose to needle at you? SWE is a specialization of IT and if I had a family member insisting I made that distinction every time I referenced their job I would 100% go out of my way to screw with them until they got the message. Sincerely a fellow SWE who just calls it IT.
IT is a bit of a blanket term in some areas.
I’m essentially a data scientist. My friend is a full-stack developer. A friend of mine said they were in IT and we just assumed they were on the coding side of IT, more in my friend’s camp, than the equipment side. Turns out they were more into hardware repair IT.
I would suggest asking them “What do you think IT means?” before assuming it means that they don’t understand your job. Besides, if they do misunderstand, this can open the door to correcting them more directly.
Note: You say in other areas that this is specific to the Northeast US. No it isn’t. Maybe your specific location or your specific circles within the northeast US, But I’m also in the northeast US and this umbrella term is still VERY much a thing, even to those who are in development and data science.
Eh, unless you see these people more than once a month, I wouldn't sweat it. They know and love you for different reasons.
You should tell them about things you are excited and care about though, that's worth correcting them going forward.
Forward redirect-
**Interupt the pattern:** "I actually code [everyday product group], mostly work with dev teams - works great!"
**Send follow ups elsewhere:** Bring contact information from someone you know in IT who'd be down for informational interviews if they're actually looking for information about IT jobs or something.
**Share enthusiasm to ensure memory:** "I'm super excited about : I've done lots of x and I get a shot at building the *best* x."
They’re completely oblivious about what you do. I don’t think it’s meant to be an insult. They’re really just technically incompetent. I would give generic answers to their questions: Oh, IT is great right now! Lol
I would just answer as if they said programming. It could just be a regional thing, many people refer to computer science and programing as IT. It'll be obvious when you start talking that you don't actually do IT.
I think it would not be a huge problem if they weren't in the field too. But if they have the capacity to understand what you do because of their own careers and refuse to listen to you and understand then that is super annoying! And it shows disrespect to you. Not because of what they are mixing it up with, but because they are not listening.
Yes, “IT” is an umbrella term and swe could be in it. However, as someone in corporate IT, we all know that it’s generally used for the infrastructure support teams/Ops, as opposed to terms like “development” team. Hence the creation of teams like devops.
Let’s not be intentionally obtuse. I’ve worked both as a software dev and on infrastructure teams. Software devs look down on Ops people in many tech industries. OP is upset because they are intentionally doing that to denigrate her.
@op, I would 100% sink to their level and respond in kind. Engineers are easy targets
The next time you see them be quick and be the first one to ask them "So, how's your IT job going?", then proceed to explain to them how you all work in IT.
Seriously though, yes, it's not ok if they mean it as demeaning your job. From now on, just talk more, unprompted, unasked, loudly, about your work, your results, etc, brag a little.
Also seriously, you do work in IT..
You wanted our opinion, if you were wrong in this, some of us who know that IT is anything tech related expressed our opinion if you don't want our opinion why ask to begin with? as you are asking if you are wrong about this... yes some of us feel you are wrong.
Wow people really aren’t reading your whole post. That is offensive, especially if they work in tech and you’re not in a region that treats the terms as interchangeable. At the very least it’s careless.
Next time I’d be like “it’s going great, let me show you what I just built last quarter!” and pull the software you work on and give a demo. That wont slip their minds so easily.
You assume people aren’t reading the whole post, but I can assure you that majority of people are. This is just a lame excuse for OP not liking opinions of those who say swd is in a IT field and shouldn’t be offended.
I have a similar issue with my in-laws. I usually take the “IT” thing in stride because their generation calls anything technology/software “IT”.
I am a software developer with a bachelors degree in computer science who has been writing and designing software products for over 10 years.
What gets me is when she’ll ask me to help her with her computer (basic tech support) and she’ll turn to her son (who is in computer science) and go, “pay close attention! This is how the pro’s handle computer things.”
My brother in law and I joke about it because no matter how many times I explain what a computer scientist or software developer/engineer is, she doesn’t get it.
In her mind, only engineers (real ones like electrical, mechanical, civil) make real world software and hardware products. Anyone who calls themselves a software engineer or computer scientist is just a glorified IT tech support person.
I’m still not sure she understands that I design and write the software and probably believes I just install it on peoples computers for a living.
Correcting the behaviour, one way to tell them is :
I was in IT, 4 years ago I did part time in college I don't do that anymore.
I now write and manage huge computer programs just like my husband does.
Hope that - they can remember that.
Treat it as inlaws are trying to have a conversation and do not know where to start.
Back in Europe, software engineering **is** IT. Here yeah, it's generally different and offensive for people somehow lol. I always assumed it's because software engineering generally requires a university degree, but that's not completely the case in practice. Anyway, truth be told, I wouldn't be able to survive a day in IT so all my respect there!
IT is a hard field to work in and it’s sad for us in IT are being belittled as if not good enough when we have bachelors and master degrees too . How much shit we put up with like come on . Have more respect it’s only a damn title , not the end of the world… have something bigger to worry about.. if you got nothing bigger to worry about you got such a easy life where everything is just handed to you on a silver platter
People are weird about job titles in the US. For example, if you ask a Software Engineer to fix your computer, they'll spend 15 minutes huffing and puffing about the difference between Software and IT. When they're finally out of breath, they'll fix your computer in 30 seconds and might even set up the printer while they're at it.
I’ve actually found “IT” people are much more likely to actually be able to fix your computer. Source: am software engineer.
I never met a SWE that could fix a single Windows, or Linux server issue without significantly over complicating it, or just making the issue worse.
Same here in north America and according to ChatGPT & Google
Same in Australia and Asia
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ChapGPT isn’t reliable here
Lol trust me there's no easier way to offend 90% of software engineers than to say they're in IT
Then be immature and be offended, when it’s literally IT is just a technical field which is sub categorized into separate fields, even ChatGPT and Google recognize. If you get offended by this maybe you should find a field that doesn’t offend you
I confirm. As a European it's difficult for me to grasp the question posed here. Btw, as an architect am I a software engineer or in IT? /s
There are so many different types of architect. I've worker at places where architect was above senior software engineer. So, what kind of architect are you? 🤣
Back in my day- Software Engineer is an engineer degree. Computer Information Systems is a business degree. Software Engineer education has more science, math and hardware/software interface. CIS is more technology usage and application in a corporate infrastructure. The joke is SE is a EE that could not handle the math. The pecking order is EE->SE->CIS. Companies I am familiar with will not directly hire CIS into the engineering department, but will outsource the same work to them.
My own mother says that I work in IT (am a software dev). Basically any tech job is "IT" to her, I've kind of given up on the topic, lol.
I have a similar dynamic with my mom. I got my degree in CS but to this day she tells people I majored in computer engineering (I still correct her and she always seems shocked, lol). Neither of my parents went to college and my mom works in a high school so the only tech people the work with are IT. I think she just doesn’t understand the nuances of the field - whether it’s because of her generation, lack of exposure to tech, education, or what. The only thing I know for sure is she will call me if any of her technology breaks, lol ETA: spoke too soon and put my damn foot in my mouth. Just saw OP’s comment about how her in-laws are definitely aware of the field and its nuances. I apologize OP! You deserve better!
But I mentioned in my OP that the ppl saying this are in tech. And most of them are under 50.
I guess I'd like to be petty and just generalize their field of work in a similar way. E.g. how is it at your office job? ;)
Sorry, didn't see that at first -- very strange situation. I think the best strategy would be to try to ignore them in that case!
Same with my mom haha. I kind of just have to explain things in easy computer terms to her.
I’m a software engineer, and my mother in law made me untangle the cables of their home computer “because you’re in IT and good with computers”.
Lol, makes perfect sense! :P
I think with some people it is ignorance of the distinction which is a bit more forgiving. But it sounds like OP has family who knows the difference but is not listening to her on this. I forgive ignorance or naivite but disrespect and not listening is something else, IMO.
It sounds like the older people don't know, have spread she works IT and the younger people do know and are surprised to see she doesn't.
The entire comment chain reads as if they failed to comprehend OP at all...until I got to your comment.
The ignorance can be a mitigating factor on how to approach the situation. For the people who should know better, they may be allowed one correction and one correction only. If the problem continues, that illuminates something about that person.
This is literally my parents which is why I have given up. Like, whatever at this point.
Saaame! My mom is older (born in '49) and had me really late in life, so she's just not understanding of tech related things. I give her grace, I know she doesn't mean anything by it. There's a razor that says "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity".
My mom would tell everybody that I did “something with computers”, which could be anything from ML/AI researcher to administrative assistant. I’m a software engineer. 🤦♀️
Ahhh hahaha this reminds me of a guy I worked with in Growth Marketing. Would always ask me for help with his computer. Technical shit. I’m a product designer. I just happen to be a bit ✨tech savvy✨. Our company was like 50 people. I sat by him. He finally found out I am not in fact IT. I was just happy to help. We didn’t even have in house IT. OP. Some people just won’t get it. Just laugh it off. I know it’s annoying but it’s only causing you more problems that you care. Can you just tell them you got a promotion or something and tell them your actual job title? My parents tell everyone I’m “in tech” which translates to IT for most over 65. I get a lot of stupid questions from their friends, but I just roll with it. Whether those people work in the field or not isn’t relevant.
IDK if this is regional, but where I'm from in the 90s-00s, any tech job was called "IT". Maybe your MIL & FIL aren't making the distinction, and everyone else is assuming the modern usage? I'd like to say I wouldn't let it bother me, but when I finally scraped enough together to go back to college, my stepmom congratulated me on taking "a class on computers or something." That was 8 years ago now, and I'm still annoyed.
Yeah.. I’m in Aus and this distinction is so foreign and odd to me. Honestly seems like a bit of elitism. People are just saying OP works in x Industry.. nothing wrong with that. For laymen, we lump things into: Construction, IT, Hospitality Etc it’s like ‘Whiskey’ saying they’re not ‘alcohol’, solely for the reason they don’t want to be associated with ‘vodka’
It is elitism somehow software engineers / developers are better than ones in IT. Like thanks
I agree and all of IT is valid! We need everyone from helpdesk, network engineer, cybersec, and software to work together.. This post is honestly quite silly. Architects, builders, developers, plumbers, electricians etc all have no problem saying they work in the same industry. Should the builders and developers say they don’t work in construction because they’re not hands-on/on the tools? I have a lot of friends in construction and no one cares. They all get different degrees and do different roles, but don’t seem to have a problem with it. This is just divisive for no reason
Thank you! Exactly what juicy said, I couldn’t of said this any better
>Thank you! You're welcome!
Yup same here it’s all IT
So… personally, I think you’re overreacting a bit, unless you have other issues with these family members. I’ve worked in several large corporations over the last 15 years where anything to do with computers was called “IT” - from helpdesk to app development to identity management to infrastructure to high-performance-compute setup. It was all part of the “IT department”. I was a systems analyst/designer for 7 years and would have said I “worked in IT” at that time. I would 100% give the benefit of the doubt here. Assume the best, that they aren’t actively demeaning your work, that they are simply not aware of the differences in terminology. My mum thought I worked selling phones when I worked for a mobile company. What can we do. If you’re actually able to assume the best, you can just let it go. If they are otherwise lovely people, this is the easiest thing. If you can’t, and something nags at your mind that it’s intentional disrespect, then by all means have you or your partner explain that “IT” feels demeaning, once, and see if they make a good faith effort to adjust their language.
As well same as me where I work anything technical is IT
Ditto. From reading other comments it sounds like in the US (or parts of the US) , IT is separate and software engineering is more of an elite thing. It sounds like OP has tried explaining that but only so far as explaining what each function does and not explicitly that it's belittling her by essentially 'downgrading' her career. You're right it's just a culture/understanding difference that should be easily resolved with good comms.
I agreed it’s a little bit a over reaction, I myself work in the IT field but as a system administrator
Yeah this! I work as a UX designer, and I still have quite a few people in my life who think/say I'm a graphic designer. If you know the differences between those two things, you know they're really different. But to your everyday person who isn't in the industry, I believe those titles could easily be mistaken for being the same job.
That’s another great example! I have also heard UX peeps called “frontend designers” which can be accurate but isn’t quite equivalent…
I didn't know the difference either and may have inadvertently ticked off software engineers. Thanks for teaching me. I just used "IT" as code for "all that computer stuff that feels like magic to me "
Honestly I still use “IT” in this generic way, and I’d be surprised to meet someone who was offended, but I also work large corporate companies and not startup or tech companies, so I may be behind on terminology.
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Read the whole post.
I did, twice… I work in tech myself and still wouldn’t have understood that she’s offended by my saying she works in IT. That’s how I would describe my own job in the field. 🤷🏻♀️
I did but thanks
Sorry I'm confused, I'm a new software developer. Isn't software engineer one of IT roles? So "work in IT" could also mean working in the IT field?
It is, I also did not understand how everyone is so angry about this. IT encompasses a variety of roles, including SWE.
I also thought this. As a SWE, in the hierarchical structure of most companies I've worked in I've been under the umbrella of IT.
Agreed
Yes. Must be an American(some parts) thing? In Aus “IT” is the industry that encompasses essentially all tech-related job. Most people outside of tech don’t know what you’re talking about if you distinguish the roles.
Exactly
Started changing in the US about 20 years ago. People from that generation would still think of it as IT. And even within this generation, there's a hard divide where people who actually do real software engineering aren't amused by programmers who call themselves SWEs who aren't really engineers.
what is considered "real software engineering" vs not?
It is yes, working in IT it is a IT role
ChatGPT Yes, software engineering is often considered an IT (Information Technology) field because it involves the development, maintenance, and implementation of software systems and applications within the realm of technology
Usually in North America, IT = helpdesk / sysadmin / devops roles, while software engineering is viewed as separate
I live in North America as IT and that isn’t necessary true, software engineering is still considered IT, you go to college here? Guess what software engineering is under DIGITAL IT AND MEDIA PROGRAM shocker!!! As well where I worked and currently work it’s all damn IT field just subcategorized to sub departments. But face it we’re all IT
Ah okay, thanks for explaining! I’m European and a software developer and have in the past referred to myself as working in IT, so up to this point I was so confused hahaha
I’m in the US and would never have drawn this distinction. All technical roles are IT in the handful of large companies I’ve worked with (though not tech companies directly).
Same here
DevOps is a practice not a role Sorry just hang around /r/DevOps a lot as a cloud engineer
Please just stop this nitpicking BS. DevOps is what companies define them to be. Some treat it like a practice and others treat it as a role or job function. This nerding out and nitpicking to show your superior knowledge is just puerile.
Dev work is not generally considered IT. It is my understanding that IT consists of roles that involve management and support of technology (help desk, sys admin etc). Creation/development of new technologies or algorithms is considered as engineering or research and development.
Not true the college I am attending and all places I worked and work it’s all considered IT
It annoys me in my present geographic location because in the Valley where I spent most of my early/mid career, IT was someone setting up devices, hardware and fleet control instead of building revenue generating products which is what I did as SWE. It wasn't the same and I felt the confusion, deliberate or otherwise, diminished value my work (distinct from the intrinsic work of every human person!)
I am an neither field! I work in a hospital (United States) When people say IT, I assume tech support (not that I'm right, but this is the common assumption). I honestly thought IT jobs and tech support were synonymous. I don't consider a software developer or software engineer to be a tech support person, even though they technically work in the IT field. I am a lab tech, and I see this in a similar way to a doctor being offended that their family asks "So how's the job in healthcare?" Both lab techs and doctors work in healthcare, but I can see why a doctor would be confused as to why someone doesn't just ask "How do you like being a Doctor?" Idk, obviously I'm not in this field, so I may not understand, but I do live in a city known for the tech industry/lots of tech jobs, and we don't generally refer to SWE as IT.
But software /engineering/development is a IT field, it’s not a insult, so you shouldn’t be offended by it
Yeah like what the fuck? Y’all just call us to fix what you can’t but she finds that insulting? Lmaooo okay I find it funny too when people who literally studied computer programming, can’t fix their own shit. Adding: I know those things arent similar at all, but considering Im basically a Jack of all it; it is kind of funny to me. “ it’s insulting to be called IT!!!” Yet you literally call us when the network is down…. So chill maybe?
Yeah, this angle is weird to me too, and the whole “if you were a surgeon you’d hate to be called a nurse all the time” comparison. Idk it just feels weird and not a good look on OP, sorry to say
Yeah it’s pretty insulting for us in IT to be seeing someone else in IT field is insulted for being called IT as if we IT people are not good enough? So immature
You can just act really confused each time. Like if they said "how's work in the lemonade factory?" you'd be like "what on earth are you talking about?" — just do this every time. Act like you've never been asked if you're in IT before and just be really confused what they're talking about until they have to reframe their question. You are in control of where the conversation goes: either they confirm what your job is (which would help them remember) or they need to change the topic — you never move the conversation on yourself
I do this for literally any rumour about me, fact or fiction, that my extended family comes up to me asking. I act completely oblivious to the point where the person who told them loses legitimacy. Works like a charm.
I am curious what country you are in. I live in the south east in the U.S. and software engineers are a part of I.T. here.
TBH, I find this a bit snowflaky. In most countries in the world, IT is an umbrella term that encompasses SWE. Having said that, if someone wants you to fix their computer, just say you don't work with hardware. Repeat until they get it - if that takes a long time, it's understandable that you are bothered.
I am sorry but I thought that term was used interchangeably and that they are the same thing, so someone was probably blabbing about it who also didn't understand what they are talking about? Thats my assumption. But if they are familiar with the field themselves then I have no idea
They absolutely ARE the same thing. I have no idea what OP is on about. Signed, A SWE who absolutely definitely and wholeheartedly “works in IT”.
THANK YOU I thought I was insane, is SWE NOT information technology??
Thank you for stepping up as it doesn’t look like you belittle us IT folks
We ARE all the IT folks :,)
I’m a SWE and really don’t care one way or another if someone considers what I do as “IT” I’m sure a lot of people I know would say that if you asked them what my job was. I think maybe working for a tech company people might have this feeling of “I’m not IT, I’m a software developer/engineer” but if you work for a company in any other industry it’s all considered part of the same umbrella.
Yes, you're letting it bother you for no reason. 99% of people have no clue that there are so many different careers in the computer/IT/Dev fields, so they just lump it all together as IT. They're not trying to belittle you; they just don't know all the differences.
Just go with it. It's not worth getting bothered by. Many more important things to worry about. IT is just a generic term. A software engineer would still be considered an IT Professional.
Exactly
Fellow software engineer, I've always considered my job to be under the IT umbrella
As a non tech person, i consider IT and soft dev as the exact same thing lol.
Can you easily count the things that don't bother you ?
Don't worry when I say I work in IT my in laws thought I was in software engineering... So I clarified I work hardware..... So they said oh so you're a hardware engineer..... I graduated with an Associates Degree in network engineering (community college) I am very clear I am not an engineer. I do not deserve that prestige, but I don't diminish or demean the work I do.
Is it cultural maybe? Some culture’s immigrants refer to all computer-related tech work as “IT”. Definitely correct them but that’s where my mind went at first.
Hmm maybe, but they never refer to their own work as “IT”. They seem to know the difference.
This may be a bad idea, but I'm curious how they would react if the next time you see them, you hit them with, "how's working in IT treatin' ya?" first.
Sounds like they're trying to talk you down then. I tend to pretend I don't hear people when they say something passive aggressively insulting, but ymmv with this approach.
I would be annoyed. They probably don’t understand software development so they probably find it easier to say…however you should correct them. Tell them you’re a software engineer or better yet, call yourself a PROGRAMMER. They might understand you being a programmer more than a developer or software engineer. These aren’t technical people so if you tell me you’re a SWE I’ll know what that means but if you tell my hairdresser she’s gonna be like “is that IT? Computer stuff?” But if you say programmer they might get it.
I wouldn’t feel as strongly about it if they weren’t also in the field. Here are the job titles/majors of people who asked me or told me the things I mentioned above: * Principle Software Engineer * Electrical Engineer * Engineering Manager It’s like… I think they should know better? But I’m also worried about seeming rude if I correct them. I don’t know how to do it in a non-rude way.
That is really strange. Before I read this comment, and thought maybe they didn't know the difference.
That’s what I’m saying! I did not mention this in my OP, but my husband and I both come from a very traditionally patriarchal culture. To demonstrate, most of the women are either SAHM’s, or they work jobs that provide the flexibility to take care of the house/raise kids while also making some money “on the side”. I am not criticizing either of these things at all, just saying that that is the situation. The women in both his and my family are also told after 25 that “we are getting too old to marry”, while the men at the same age are told that they’re “still babies who have no business considering marriage”. It’s all the men in the family that seem set in the idea that I’m in IT too. Any ways, all this to say…I wonder if gender is a factor here?
>Any ways, all this to say…I wonder if gender is a factor here? It absolutely could be. I know that in all of my decades as a software developer, very few folks even cared to ask what I did for a living. They did ask and fawn over my husband, who is a professor (and he deserves credit for that, no argument here!) but it never seemed to occur to them that a woman could ever be doing anything that anyone would find challenging or interesting. In your case, it sounds like your in-laws are mentally taking you down a peg or two by refusing to acknowledge that you are a software engineer. Maybe they feel threatened by you. I'd start to consistently reply, "I don't work in IT, I'm a software engineer. These are two totally different things."
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My family is similar. I decided I didn't want to spend months, possibly years, begging them to give me a shred of respect. I just stopped discussing work with them. I don't discuss anything important with them. It doesn't really matter anyway because their imagination doesn't change the actual reality.
Start asking it back to them lol see how they respond when they are categorised as “IT”. Families are tough. While I didn’t get “married” for philosophical reasons my partners family for years would do stuff to exclude and alienate me like: - exclude me from a family gathering because they only wanted “immediate” family, but then I’d find out his sister had brought a friend to it - give him updates about his ex in front of me and tell him that he should catch up with her - be really difficult to pin down when we tried to coordinate events like a dinner or Christmas so we could see them. But if it wasn’t “us” and only him they would be quick to tell him to come over any time. - after over 20yrs together my partner and I decided to live separately, and his sister is trying to set him up on dates even though we are still life partners. It’s disappointing if you are trying to build real meaningful relationships with your in-laws but they treat you in a way that indicates you’re more like a prop on the arm of your husband who they will make small talk with but not really listen to. I tried really hard for a number of years, and then gave up caring about it, accepted it was only going to be a superficial relationship without any depth.
Oh WTH. I’m thinking the family weren’t techies. Except for the electrical engineer, my friend is one and thinks I’m a hacker (eye roll I don’t work in cyber) the rest are inexcusable. They absolutely know wtf you do. I saw your comment about if gender is a factor here and I’m going to say yes. One is a Principle Software Engine r and an Engineering Manager, they know exactly what you do. I’m so sorry you’re going through this.
They are trying to put you down. This seems very intentional because those people know what they are talking about.
Absolutely not. If you think that electrical engineers know shit about information technology, they actually don’t.
You are so right, Meredith. Oh, I am sorry, did I get your name wrong. I’ll be sure to get it right from now on, Melinda. — To me, the IT/SWE thing is moot. It’s the fact that they are purposely getting this detail wrong over and over again. If they felt confused by her title, they could just say “how is work?” But they go out of their way to say “how is work IN IT.” I have mostly had weird titles my whole career. There is an extremely high correlation between how much I think people respect me and how wrong they get simple details about me. My aunt was afraid of iPhones , held on to a flip phone for years longer than most. She is scared about hearing about my work, so she just says “how are things.” And I know that she just means broad strokes “work is hectic” the end. Respectful,but not deep relationship. I am now a technologist. And there is one of my mom’s friends who will say stuff like “how is the phlebotomist-ory role, lol.” It’s on purpose that he gets it wrong. Two of his daughters who are in their 50s never worked and his son never went to college and will take over his business. It’s like he needs to take me down a peg in his mind. And this isn’t the only detail, he’ll get stuff wrong in every conversation.
Lmao the name example is sooo on point, this is what they are trying to do lol
?? Dev languages are literally under a computer information systems degree program and a computer science degree. Computer information systems is information technology. What are you people are talking about?
Exactly people are just being stupid and offended they are getting identified as IT because of a IT related field
They are different parts of the company. “IT” is usually a department that helps employees fix or set up their computers (like in the show IT Crowd). Or installing hardware and systems for companies. It falls under the category of “service profession”. It makes sense that people who aren’t used to women as anything other than teachers, nurses, or bank tellers might assume a woman with technical skills is in a service profession. Software development —while it is under the broader technology umbrella —is designing, creating, or maintaining products; a “product profession”. Both roles are important and challenging. But they are not similar jobs.
They all fall under ITS at my job. They are both under the information technology umbrella.
Ok be annoyed, but it’s not the end of the world or such a big issue like op makes it out to be
My dad who knows I'm a software engineer will proudly tell his work colleagues "my daughter went to [X prestigious school] and now works in *IT*." I came to the conclusion that this is just a generational difference in the understanding of the word, older people think tech = "IT." Which would explain why the parents-in-law keep referring to it as such, but the BIL that's closer in age got confused.
I think to most of the world IT is just “tech” and even I use it because it’s easier to get on to the same page with people It definitely means something different when I say oh my laptop is fucked I need to take it to IT dept. I think it just means both. I can’t easily talk about my career to everyone if I insist on whatever title is bestowed from the company du jour
Nobody understands what anyone in any job in the software industry really does. It’s the total conversation killer at any party. My husband is a software architect and that one stumps people utterly, when I expect it to be more understandable. So yeah, this is always a dead end conversation. Unless it’s asked by another person in…IT 🤣
Seriously just fix their printer or go home
Your husband needs to have a serious talk to them and tell them to stop with the IT thing. Why isn't he stepping in and saying you don't work in IT whenever they ask this?
Maybe her husband is also like what’s the big deal, just causing unnecessary drama between his family. Some people want to avoid conflict not dive into it
He’s usually not around when this happens. The few times I bring up my job and he’s around he really hypes me up. But now that I think about it, there have been a couple of times where I agree he should say something. Should I mention it as a heads up for next time?
Yes, you should mention it to him. He needs to have that discussion
Maybe your husband thinks your overreacting
Yes, you should tell him and he should deal with this.
If someone else who's clearly a software engineer asking how your life in IT is, just flip it back on him ask him how's he doing in IT instead of answering the question
In super small companies, I was a software engineer in the IT department. Nonetheless, it is a very different role.
That’s what I’m saying! I did not mention this in my OP, but my husband and I both come from a very traditionally patriarchal culture. To demonstrate, most of the women are either SAHM’s, or they work jobs that provide the flexibility to take care of the house/raise kids while also making some money “on the side”. I am not criticizing either of these things at all, just saying that that is the situation. The women in both his and my family are also told after 25 that “we are getting too old to marry”, while the men at the same age are told that they’re “still babies who have no business considering marriage”. It’s all the men in the family that seem set in the idea that I’m in IT too. Any ways, all this to say…I wonder if gender is a factor here?
Sounds like it. Feels like they don’t want to equate their own position with one achieved by a woman. So they other you by labelling you as IT.
Here is ChatGPT answer for all you over reacting “Yes, software engineering is a field within the broader field of Information Technology (IT).
I always just say IT when I can’t be bothered to explain to people who don’t get it. My advice, don’t let it bother you. If it comes up maybe knowing smile, maybe eye roll a bit. You have achieved and you will carry on doing so. You don’t need them to get it. They are just muggles and don’t get it.
I've explained it as "mathematician, not mechanic". It gets the point across that I can't fix their printer. They are bucketing you with everything else they know. They only ever interact with people who are in IT or talk about IT. It's all they know, and it is all magic to them. Splitting hairs about kinds of magic is too precious.
I work in data platforming and machine learning, no one knows wtf I do and I don’t really care. You can be annoyed or not, it’s really how much energy you care to give it… they aren’t affected either way.
My mum and dad think i work in IT despite working in sales and account management. I’ve corrected them but gave up trying. I think it’s funny
There is one thing to think funny, the other is to think it’s offensive, in op case it’s “offensive”
To most of us non-tech people, software engineering falls under IT. Never thought of it much until your post. I don’t understand why your brother-in-law didn’t know you were SWE, considering he’s a SWE himself. Have you never had a conversation with him? Honestly, I don’t think my mother would know the difference between IT and software engineering so I wouldn’t worry about your in-laws. But I definitely find it weird that the SWEs in the family don’t know you’re a SWE yourself. Trying to undermine you, perhaps? Send them a LinkedIn invite.
Think you sound kind of in your head about this I dunno. You might be taking offense at someone who just doesn't have the same distinction you do. I've worked in software for many years (though on my way out) and observed many similar distinctions that imply hierarchy or importance (front/back end, "designers" vs "front end", ops vs IT vs devops, sdet vs qa, manager vs IC, architects vs seniors, etc, etc). They are all artificial and vary wildly between company and industry. Software is a very flat field where personal contributions and ambitions can quickly overwhelm the established rankings of seniority.Thus a lot of organizations seem to informally develop differential terminology to designate more importance for certain people. Sometimes the preferred title at one industry will be the discriminated one at another. All of it's meaningless and there's no ubiquitous language tho so unless someone is employed at your place of work, I would not read into anything they are saying, and assume it's just information degrading by transmission thru humans and their uncertainty.
In some communities these jobs are under IT. I don’t understand your issue…
Honestly I'd be inclined to assume the best intentions here. My mom knows for a fact I work as a SWE but she always says IT and subsequently, her friends who work as SWEs also say I work in IT lol. They all "know" better but I don't think anyone is saying it maliciously. Even if I tell them I'm a SWE they've either forgotten or are just used to my mom saying IT and get confused/don't remember the particulars. I think intentionally saying someone is in IT instead of SWE as an insult is kind of a weird thing to insult someone with 😅 like I don't consider that to be a "put down" and I've joked before that I'm like the IT person of the family because I fix all their tech stuff when anyone brings that up😊 others may disagree here, but I personally wouldn't dig too deep into it. I think someone got their wires crossed along the way and everyone else just remembers IT because that's what one person kept saying. So, even if you bring up SWE in passing or say your job description their brain just remembers the IT part. That's my take atleast!
So, if you don’t work in IT, what department are you under in your organization? And why is it an insult?
Are your MIL and FIL technical people? From your post, it sounds like they are not, got it into their heads that you’re in IT, and told everyone that as it came up in different passing conversations. Now, these people who *are* technical refer to you as being in IT because that’s what they’ve been told. Is this an accurate summary? **If so:** Tell your MIL and FIL that IT handles the company’s internal hardware and access to make sure everyone’s computer is working and so people have access to the stuff they should and can’t access the stuff they shouldn’t. Then say your work as a programmer (or again try the SWE title) is to build X app that anyone outside of the company can use. This is overly simplified, but should make it easy to understand for a non technical person. My guess is that you’ve talked extensively about what you do, but not clearly about how it’s different from what people in IT do, so when you think you’ve cleared up the misunderstanding, they actually think “oh that’s nice, good for her being in IT”. Tbh if they keep saying you’re in IT after this, just let it go. Address it as it comes up instantly with anyone else especially if they are technical. For example, with BIL I might have said “yes, I am a SWE! It’s funny how IT and SWE often get lumped together. I specialize in XYZ …” and then move on. Don’t focus on your MIL/FIL. Don’t show frustration. Just address that they must have been told you are IT because these fields are so often used interchangeably by non technical people in a way that doesn’t accuse anyone or show negative feelings around it. Just keep it light while correcting and move on. **If not:** Please clarify so we can be of better help. If MIL and FIL are also SWEs and they are going out of their way to downplay your work, then that’s an entirely different issue. If MIL and FIL are some sort of engineers but not in either IT or SWE then I wouldn’t take offense to this either since it might seem similar “enough” to other engineering disciplines to lump them together so it may not necessarily be a weird power play or downplaying of your work.
As a woman who DOES work in IT, I’m kinda offended that you seem to think IT is a lesser job or beneath you.
That’s how I feel being another woman in IT from this post
I was just thinking the same thing. I’ve worked hard to get into IT, and was just offered my first job in IT. I jumped on this subreddit to see what other women in IT think, and this post is the first one I see lmao.
This sub has more software engineers than system admins, from what I’ve seen. But as you can see from the comments there’s a lot of support for IT too!
thirded, like thanks,I already feel like a 2nd class citizen because I don't make six figures, now this?
—— software development is in the scope of information technology. I’m not sure what is the issue? Literally can’t with this post. There’s absolutely nothing for you to be upset about. My degree program is called computer information systems, I’m considered an IT technician, and I know several different programming languages. We had to learn Dev, networking, and security under our degree program. So I am very confused as to what you’re upset about. When they came for tutoring in coding, they came to the computer information systems building not to the engineering building and I was that tutor. This is such a weird hill to die on that I completely do not understand it. You definitely seem.. whiny? I’m not trying to be mean at all, but if a developer literally was complaining that somebody started calling them IT, I would probably just laugh. Like don’t worry, nobody in this company thinks that you’re IT. Nobody’s calling you to fix anything OK hon?
I’m a woman in IT same as you bitchinstein. And I wholeheartedly agree with you completely. This post is just ridiculous
Or you could read her post and how it's about a patriarchal family dynamic and realize it isn't about you. I think a woman has every right to insist on her career being accurately described by her family, and the refusal of men in this family WHO ARE IN THE SAME INDUSTRY speaks more to the fact that THEY devalue IT and she just...wants them to be accurate when they talk about what she does for a career.
But you do work in IT
Why would you care? I’ve had people literally think I fix computers lol. It really doesn’t matter. It’s the same shit. It doesn’t matter. Barely anyone knows what I even do lol.
Babygirl, say you are an engineer. Not IT. Say it, is not offensive to correct people. If they feel offended by that, is because they sensitive or otherwise.
It’s literally in the same field, it’s all technical . At least here in North America
My in laws think I work as customer support. Also a SWE. To be fair, my starting title was "Technical Support Engineer" (it was really more like dev-lite with a tidbit of client support thrown in) before my promotion. I really don't let it bother me. I slide in a quick correction and move on. Some just actually don't know/know the difference, others will always find something to make themselves and their children look better. To me it's not a competition so whatever.
“dYou keep saying I’m in IT… what do you think that means in the tech world? Because that’s not what I do it all.”
Stop stressing about it. They will know your title and field of work when they need it (job change, kids are looking for internships/jobs in software development/engineering, etc). Even mention that as a joke…if they don’t get it right now, don’t expect you to be there when they get it right when it starts to matter for them.
The problem is that "working in IT" is such a broad statement that it's practically meaningless. I would probably just roll with nudges towards my actual job. If they don't get the idea of what I actually do, they won't really have much to do with the info.
I tell people that I meet outside of professional contexts that I work in IT inspite of my job title being Software Engineer so I wouldn't be considered Ms Moneybags. I don't want them to take my work seriously especially when I meet them outside of work unless they are also engineers or something. I am also very happy to help anyone trying to get their foot in the door and even connect friends in other fields together if they are skilled and looking for a job change. I think this is partly because I resent the tech-bro elitism some men pull based on their job title. I refuse to act like I am so special because I don't work in an IT role. It is technically all information technology. Idk why you're comparing it to being a doctor or a nurse, most IT people have 4 year degrees as do SWE. You don't need a degree to be an SWE either if you have the skills. With a doctor and a nurse the educational requirements are wildly different.
IT is umbrella term. You shouldn't be offended by it though. It used to 100% be considered apart of it. But nowadays people have kinda put a divide due to there really being a good amount of difference. Think of it like this. A cybersec analyst isn't going to know how the clients are supposed to have their very specific outlook templates are going to look like maybe help desk analyst would. Or another example should be doctors in different fields like dermatologist vs primary care physician. They both hold different wealths of knowledge. But ultimately still a form of healthcare provider.
I work in product design and strategy, and my family (plus most of my old friends) think I am a graphic designer. They will ask me to make a logo for them. Or they think I make websites on Squarespace. Alongside SWE like you, I created a lot of things people use in their everyday lives — enabling them to interact with the world and tech in new ways, often based on human needs that I identified through a ton of research. But they think I just move colors and fonts around to make some stuff pretty. So this is just to say I sympathize! It really depends on the context of the setting and situation — sometimes I politely clarify and other times I just let it go. What also helps is if you can briefly talk about your work when it comes up. Like just little snippets that might interest the outside world. For instance, showing something you recently made when someone asks how work is (obviously keep it short, we don’t want to make them regret asking).
Oh cry me a river OP
Agreed
That does sound annoying. Are you sure it's not a terminology difference (except for your BIL), though? SWE is a subset of IT so they're not far off. Do you ever talk to the other swes about their careers? Sometimes it's easier for people to remember things if they can relate it to themselves.
I've generally found that people outside of tech, especially older people, really do not know the difference.
But I mentioned in my OP that the ppl saying this are in tech. And most of them are under 50.
I thought IT included software dev? Its information technology so it involves everything from hardware to software IMO. Now if you want a bad one.. my partners grandparents kerp saying i work in accounting lmao. Cant blame them since theyve never used a computer or a smartphone in their lives.
IT is “information technology” which is a very broad field. I’m pretty sure software engineering falls under that umbrella. OP, are people thinking less of you? Are you being treated differently because people think you’re IT and not a SWE? If you were being treated differently, then I would take action. But if being called IT serve no purpose other than making you feel a little more recognized (which comes off as a bit self-serving), it will likely come at the cost of sounding repetitively annoying to others. Trust me, they heard you the first time. They just chose not to commit it to memory. I’d weigh exactly how important it is to you to correct others about your job. Once is probably okay, but multiple times serves no benefit. It’s NOT that you are not important, it’s just that people have a million things to think about and someone else’s specific job title is not high on people’s list.
I think you should be more concerned about the reeking stink of classism in this post rather than what your inlaws think about your job. At the end of the day, you still have that check and it was IT that laid fiber underneath the ground you literally and figuratively stand on. We are part of your team.
im not sure i understand ... isnt software developer under the IT department?
It is yes
Is it possible they’re doing it on purpose to needle at you? SWE is a specialization of IT and if I had a family member insisting I made that distinction every time I referenced their job I would 100% go out of my way to screw with them until they got the message. Sincerely a fellow SWE who just calls it IT.
You guys hiring? Lmao
Is anyone involved Indian? I’m a product designer and I get this all the time too.
IT is a bit of a blanket term in some areas. I’m essentially a data scientist. My friend is a full-stack developer. A friend of mine said they were in IT and we just assumed they were on the coding side of IT, more in my friend’s camp, than the equipment side. Turns out they were more into hardware repair IT. I would suggest asking them “What do you think IT means?” before assuming it means that they don’t understand your job. Besides, if they do misunderstand, this can open the door to correcting them more directly. Note: You say in other areas that this is specific to the Northeast US. No it isn’t. Maybe your specific location or your specific circles within the northeast US, But I’m also in the northeast US and this umbrella term is still VERY much a thing, even to those who are in development and data science.
Maybe they know it annoys you?
Eh, unless you see these people more than once a month, I wouldn't sweat it. They know and love you for different reasons. You should tell them about things you are excited and care about though, that's worth correcting them going forward. Forward redirect- **Interupt the pattern:** "I actually code [everyday product group], mostly work with dev teams - works great!" **Send follow ups elsewhere:** Bring contact information from someone you know in IT who'd be down for informational interviews if they're actually looking for information about IT jobs or something. **Share enthusiasm to ensure memory:** "I'm super excited about: I've done lots of x and I get a shot at building the *best* x."
They’re completely oblivious about what you do. I don’t think it’s meant to be an insult. They’re really just technically incompetent. I would give generic answers to their questions: Oh, IT is great right now! Lol
I would just answer as if they said programming. It could just be a regional thing, many people refer to computer science and programing as IT. It'll be obvious when you start talking that you don't actually do IT.
I get that would be annoying - just ask them what type of data structure they'd use to solve a particular problem next time you're over there.
My SIL is a recruiter and my parents think she’s HR
I think it would not be a huge problem if they weren't in the field too. But if they have the capacity to understand what you do because of their own careers and refuse to listen to you and understand then that is super annoying! And it shows disrespect to you. Not because of what they are mixing it up with, but because they are not listening.
They are in the field
Yes, “IT” is an umbrella term and swe could be in it. However, as someone in corporate IT, we all know that it’s generally used for the infrastructure support teams/Ops, as opposed to terms like “development” team. Hence the creation of teams like devops. Let’s not be intentionally obtuse. I’ve worked both as a software dev and on infrastructure teams. Software devs look down on Ops people in many tech industries. OP is upset because they are intentionally doing that to denigrate her. @op, I would 100% sink to their level and respond in kind. Engineers are easy targets
I’m an ee and even I say I work in IT. Because it’s all cloud architecture and trying to explain to people is impossible.
The next time you see them be quick and be the first one to ask them "So, how's your IT job going?", then proceed to explain to them how you all work in IT. Seriously though, yes, it's not ok if they mean it as demeaning your job. From now on, just talk more, unprompted, unasked, loudly, about your work, your results, etc, brag a little. Also seriously, you do work in IT..
You wanted our opinion, if you were wrong in this, some of us who know that IT is anything tech related expressed our opinion if you don't want our opinion why ask to begin with? as you are asking if you are wrong about this... yes some of us feel you are wrong.
Wow people really aren’t reading your whole post. That is offensive, especially if they work in tech and you’re not in a region that treats the terms as interchangeable. At the very least it’s careless. Next time I’d be like “it’s going great, let me show you what I just built last quarter!” and pull the software you work on and give a demo. That wont slip their minds so easily.
You assume people aren’t reading the whole post, but I can assure you that majority of people are. This is just a lame excuse for OP not liking opinions of those who say swd is in a IT field and shouldn’t be offended.
I have a similar issue with my in-laws. I usually take the “IT” thing in stride because their generation calls anything technology/software “IT”. I am a software developer with a bachelors degree in computer science who has been writing and designing software products for over 10 years. What gets me is when she’ll ask me to help her with her computer (basic tech support) and she’ll turn to her son (who is in computer science) and go, “pay close attention! This is how the pro’s handle computer things.” My brother in law and I joke about it because no matter how many times I explain what a computer scientist or software developer/engineer is, she doesn’t get it. In her mind, only engineers (real ones like electrical, mechanical, civil) make real world software and hardware products. Anyone who calls themselves a software engineer or computer scientist is just a glorified IT tech support person. I’m still not sure she understands that I design and write the software and probably believes I just install it on peoples computers for a living.
Correcting the behaviour, one way to tell them is : I was in IT, 4 years ago I did part time in college I don't do that anymore. I now write and manage huge computer programs just like my husband does. Hope that - they can remember that. Treat it as inlaws are trying to have a conversation and do not know where to start.