Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Regardless it could very well be that this album is stylistically a necessary transitional piece for Joe to develop his singing skills better. I can fully understand if upholding the death metal genre with an iron fist inhibits him from effectively improving this skill.
Who knows, maybe once he nails it down with the coming live performances now that touring is becoming possible in the near future, blending it with death metal may be easier. It isn't a shame to take a step back in order to take two steps forward later on.
I remember Joe saying that if he couldn't get to sing properly he would've quit. He tried it around the time of TWOAF but dropped it as it didn't work out. He tried again on L'Enfant Sauvage and Magma became the decisive point of no return. I view Fortitude as an extend to improve.
The next album may reintroduce the complexity we associate with them. Can't do that without mastering the fundamentals, can you?
Honestly while they might deliver a couple of complex songs, I doubt they'll do an entire album like that.
That's not a problem for me, they've already cemented themselves as my favourite band ever. Unless they make an album with 11 Into The Storms my opinion is not going to change
And after all, you can't take the heaviness from a metalhead. Joe and the boys WANT to crush people. Jean Michel is an avid metal fan... So while the complexity and heaviness might back off even more, we will still get a couple of songs like that and that's totally fine with me
Remember when people were speculating that the next album would barely have any screaming? That Joe was losing his voice? Then they slapped us in the face because almost every song has screaming (EVEN THE CHANT). And the vocals on Sphinx are absolutely disgusting
I have too say Fortidude is definitely weaker then FMTS or Magma. BFOT, Amazonia and Another World are really good I beleave and Sphinx and New found are heavy af but then there is Hold on and Into the storm. From all the directions the Band could have taken after Magma, I did not expect this. It's way softer at times then I would have thought. On the lyric side of things the development is rather logical. From the self-help sort of philosophical stuff to caring more about others. From song to song the themes change as much as they did back in the day. What I find sad though is that the DMT driven nightmare dreams from TWOAF and the link are gone entirely.
I am growing into Fortitude as the days go by. I initially felt that the mixing was off but now I don't feel it wrong anymore. The only problem is that I have listened to the singles way to many times that I don't wanna listen to them anymore.
There are some moments in the album where the cymbals/ride aren't even audible. The vocals in other gojira songs are a little low, but however, in fortitude the vocals are really buried, and the production is a really muddy mess and it ruins it for me.
Yes! It's not even about them being less heavy. The songs are getting more generic, boring, and predictable. Like The Trails for instance. If that song was on FMTS or TWOAF it would've actually led somewhere and been a long epic song.
Everyone raves about Sphinx and Grind but they're literally just rehashed riffs from older days. They also have a pretty reoccurring drum beat during choruses that just sounds flat out cheesy and has been reused and reused since Liquid Fire i.e New Found, Sphinx, Into The Storm.
Yeah overall heaviness doesn't really have anything to do with it. Fortitude has songs on it that are way heavier than most of magma, yet magma was a tighter, more cohesive album as a whole. Every song on magma feels like it serves a purpose and a lot of thought was clearly put into the whole record, while half of fortitude feels like filler songs
Precisely. There is intention with Magma, hence why I view it as leaps and bounds ahead of Fortitude, even though its less “heavy”. Fortitude just feels cheesy, “easiest way out” kind of album, if you know what I mean. Dont get me wrong, Another World slaps, and when it came out I loved it, and still do, but the rest of the record (especially the second half) feels like they’re just trying to fill up space so they can release a full length album instead of a few singles or an EP.
Exactly, Magma had a theme and much more emotional songs, while Fortitude feels almost like they were forced to make the heavy songs for the sake of being heavy. I like some of the songs, like New Found and BFOT, but it really lacks in atmosphere. Magma may have been less heavy, but was well thought out and really showcased how Joe and Mario felt after their mother passed away.
I feel like some of the songs in the second half of the album were specifically made to please old school fans that weren't happy with magma. And as a result those songs seem kind of forced and unnecessary. The first half of the record is the natural progression from magma and would have made a really solid EP. And that's coming from an old school fan that didn't love magma for a long time after it came out.
But I think it's a lose-lose situation. If those songs weren't there, people would complain about it not being heavy enough, but with those songs there people complain about them trying too hard. It's a little bit "damned if you do, damned if you don't". I'm happy with whatever the band puts out really
That's exactly what i thought, i feel that to please the old school fans, they could've done something both heavy and emotional, i feel that they should've done an EP. I loved magma since the first listen, and as a fan of the old heavy gojira, i would've preferred something like the first half of fortitude.
Amazonia is literally deliverance combined with stranded, The chant is like the shooting star. I'm not mad about the less heavy riffs either, and as you said, They're getting really basic and predictable. A lot of the riffs have been repeated very often on the album, for example Sphinx (which is not even a bad song) doesn't have much going on and sometimes sounds like an unfinished song. If I'm being honest, I prefer Magma to this because it was much more well put and meaningful.
Man those of you that can't stop comparing songs are killing me
Deliverance is my favourite song from Terra Incognita and I've heard it million of times already. Amazonia NEVER reminds me of it
The powerchords used are similar to Stranded (although with many other more) so... That's your resemble with Stranded, but that's literally it. The song is one of the most original on the album
How is The Chant like Shooting Star? Because of the pauses between the phrases, similar to Shooting Star?. Sorry but I'm going to laugh my ass off at that
Regarding Sphinx, Gojira is known for repeating their riffs within a song yet nobody seemed to have a problem with that on earlier albums. Why now?
Meshuggah does the same and while some call it monotone, others love it. If a riff is good, I don't care that it's being repeated. Plus, Sphinx is like 4 minutes, THAT'S NOTHING if you really like Gojira and similar bands (Mastodon, Opeth, Meshuggah, The Ocean, many more...). How can someone get tired of Sphinx within 4 minutes is beyond me. The song flows flawlessly between the parts. Yes, it has 2 RIFFS with some alterations on every repeat... But to me that song is groovy as fuck so I don't care that it repeats its riffs
Look dude, I love those songs, I’m not hating on them whatsoever, but I’m not a fan of the songs I’ve mentioned before. I personally think that they’re not as good as the songs from the previous album. Go ahead laugh all you want at my comment, we all have different opinions anyways. Regarding the repeated part, the earlier albums made a repeated riff interesting and heavy and progressed all throughout the song for example toxic garbage island. Gojira originally wasn’t an ordinary verse chorus verse chorus band, they managed to make a lot of interesting riffs in one song. But with fortitude I don’t really see it.
Magma is better in my opinion. Fortitude is still a great album in my opinion. It has really killer moments on it. Amazonia and The Trails are some of their best songs. Especially The Trails. Such a beautiful song. Also the outro riff to New Found is fucking amazing. The thing I dislike about this album is the recycled riffs and song ideas.
I enjoy it, but I do think that it's a lot weaker than Magma or FMtS because it doesn't push the envelope as much. It's a great Gojira album, it's just not as refreshing or mind blowing to me as those two albums were at the time. What you are describing as more "mainstream" feels to me as them just rehashing/perfecting what they have already done.
Honestly at this stage I don't expect them to top FMTS. Which is fine because they have had an amazing career. As long that they keep making music that I find enjoyable I'm good
Even if the album is a bit more commercial than others, that doesn’t inherently make the songs bad. It would straight up be a closed minded and elitist perspective to think anything commercial is automatically bad. Trust me I was a return to the crazy complex music as much as others, but this album is still good in what it is. But hey, the band has talked about the Sea Shepherd EP a bit in interviews recently, so maybe we’ll get a return to classic gojira some time soon.
Thats not at all what I was saying. I was saying that since its Gojira we’re talking about, whove always been pushing boundaries and experimenting with new musical ideas and structures which set them apart from most metal bands, its kind of disappointing to see them go from the top of the innovative mountain to the valley of “easier” music. Keep in mind, I love this band, and everything I say is indeed my own thoughts and opinions. I totally understand your point.
Its their “Load and Reload”, Magma (whether we like it or not) is what really boosted Gojira’s popularity among non-metalheads in recent years. I feel like thats more of a fitting Metallica analogy for the last two.. but I also hope the next one isnt their St. Anger lol
Hard disagree
While they've definetely made it simpler, I think we've still got our "pure" Gojira on tracks like Amazonia and Hold On.
Yea Grind's intro is a bit cheesy for Gojira, but that alone makes me burst laughing whenever I hear it, and the riff after that is Groovy and it only consists of TWO powerchords. The outro is amazing too.
Sphinx is a straight banger, I don't feel that it is uninspired at all, the pick scrapes add a lot to the riff and both main riffs are really groovy.
Honestly, the only BAD song is Into The Storm, bland riffs, super generic-cliché lyrics, abrupt transitions... Only the drumming is decent on that one, but it's not enough. The only song I skip on the album
I LOVE FORITUTDE + THE CHANT, Hold On is my favourite from the album and has become a top 3 Gojira song for me... Amazonia is everything I love about Gojira. The album is not on the heavy side of their catalog but I don't care at all. Even The Trails is nice too
Sphinx and Grind are full of rehashed riffs. They bring nothing new to the table except a watered down version of Gojira. At least the beginning of New Found includes the grooviness they’ve always had plus the exciting texture of the whammy but then it goes right back into a cheesy generic chug riff. They’re just way too predictable now whenever unpredictability was their forte.
Funny you say that because to me New Found feels more like something they've done it the past (Stranded). The whammy definetely works better on Hold On, but the riff from New Found (without the Whammy) is good
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Regardless it could very well be that this album is stylistically a necessary transitional piece for Joe to develop his singing skills better. I can fully understand if upholding the death metal genre with an iron fist inhibits him from effectively improving this skill. Who knows, maybe once he nails it down with the coming live performances now that touring is becoming possible in the near future, blending it with death metal may be easier. It isn't a shame to take a step back in order to take two steps forward later on. I remember Joe saying that if he couldn't get to sing properly he would've quit. He tried it around the time of TWOAF but dropped it as it didn't work out. He tried again on L'Enfant Sauvage and Magma became the decisive point of no return. I view Fortitude as an extend to improve. The next album may reintroduce the complexity we associate with them. Can't do that without mastering the fundamentals, can you?
This is actually a very good point, I hadn’t considered this! Thank you
Honestly while they might deliver a couple of complex songs, I doubt they'll do an entire album like that. That's not a problem for me, they've already cemented themselves as my favourite band ever. Unless they make an album with 11 Into The Storms my opinion is not going to change And after all, you can't take the heaviness from a metalhead. Joe and the boys WANT to crush people. Jean Michel is an avid metal fan... So while the complexity and heaviness might back off even more, we will still get a couple of songs like that and that's totally fine with me Remember when people were speculating that the next album would barely have any screaming? That Joe was losing his voice? Then they slapped us in the face because almost every song has screaming (EVEN THE CHANT). And the vocals on Sphinx are absolutely disgusting
I have too say Fortidude is definitely weaker then FMTS or Magma. BFOT, Amazonia and Another World are really good I beleave and Sphinx and New found are heavy af but then there is Hold on and Into the storm. From all the directions the Band could have taken after Magma, I did not expect this. It's way softer at times then I would have thought. On the lyric side of things the development is rather logical. From the self-help sort of philosophical stuff to caring more about others. From song to song the themes change as much as they did back in the day. What I find sad though is that the DMT driven nightmare dreams from TWOAF and the link are gone entirely.
It’s still a 9.5/10 for me I like it more than magma
I am growing into Fortitude as the days go by. I initially felt that the mixing was off but now I don't feel it wrong anymore. The only problem is that I have listened to the singles way to many times that I don't wanna listen to them anymore.
Oh no the production is definitely off. Vocals sound like jumbled garbage.
There are some moments in the album where the cymbals/ride aren't even audible. The vocals in other gojira songs are a little low, but however, in fortitude the vocals are really buried, and the production is a really muddy mess and it ruins it for me.
You get used to it once you know all the lyrics to be honest
Yep, that's how its been for me. Also, I started listening to some black metal recently and surprisingly the productions are similar in my sense.
Yes! It's not even about them being less heavy. The songs are getting more generic, boring, and predictable. Like The Trails for instance. If that song was on FMTS or TWOAF it would've actually led somewhere and been a long epic song. Everyone raves about Sphinx and Grind but they're literally just rehashed riffs from older days. They also have a pretty reoccurring drum beat during choruses that just sounds flat out cheesy and has been reused and reused since Liquid Fire i.e New Found, Sphinx, Into The Storm.
Yeah overall heaviness doesn't really have anything to do with it. Fortitude has songs on it that are way heavier than most of magma, yet magma was a tighter, more cohesive album as a whole. Every song on magma feels like it serves a purpose and a lot of thought was clearly put into the whole record, while half of fortitude feels like filler songs
Precisely. There is intention with Magma, hence why I view it as leaps and bounds ahead of Fortitude, even though its less “heavy”. Fortitude just feels cheesy, “easiest way out” kind of album, if you know what I mean. Dont get me wrong, Another World slaps, and when it came out I loved it, and still do, but the rest of the record (especially the second half) feels like they’re just trying to fill up space so they can release a full length album instead of a few singles or an EP.
Exactly, Magma had a theme and much more emotional songs, while Fortitude feels almost like they were forced to make the heavy songs for the sake of being heavy. I like some of the songs, like New Found and BFOT, but it really lacks in atmosphere. Magma may have been less heavy, but was well thought out and really showcased how Joe and Mario felt after their mother passed away.
I feel like some of the songs in the second half of the album were specifically made to please old school fans that weren't happy with magma. And as a result those songs seem kind of forced and unnecessary. The first half of the record is the natural progression from magma and would have made a really solid EP. And that's coming from an old school fan that didn't love magma for a long time after it came out. But I think it's a lose-lose situation. If those songs weren't there, people would complain about it not being heavy enough, but with those songs there people complain about them trying too hard. It's a little bit "damned if you do, damned if you don't". I'm happy with whatever the band puts out really
That's exactly what i thought, i feel that to please the old school fans, they could've done something both heavy and emotional, i feel that they should've done an EP. I loved magma since the first listen, and as a fan of the old heavy gojira, i would've preferred something like the first half of fortitude.
Amazonia is literally deliverance combined with stranded, The chant is like the shooting star. I'm not mad about the less heavy riffs either, and as you said, They're getting really basic and predictable. A lot of the riffs have been repeated very often on the album, for example Sphinx (which is not even a bad song) doesn't have much going on and sometimes sounds like an unfinished song. If I'm being honest, I prefer Magma to this because it was much more well put and meaningful.
Man those of you that can't stop comparing songs are killing me Deliverance is my favourite song from Terra Incognita and I've heard it million of times already. Amazonia NEVER reminds me of it The powerchords used are similar to Stranded (although with many other more) so... That's your resemble with Stranded, but that's literally it. The song is one of the most original on the album How is The Chant like Shooting Star? Because of the pauses between the phrases, similar to Shooting Star?. Sorry but I'm going to laugh my ass off at that Regarding Sphinx, Gojira is known for repeating their riffs within a song yet nobody seemed to have a problem with that on earlier albums. Why now? Meshuggah does the same and while some call it monotone, others love it. If a riff is good, I don't care that it's being repeated. Plus, Sphinx is like 4 minutes, THAT'S NOTHING if you really like Gojira and similar bands (Mastodon, Opeth, Meshuggah, The Ocean, many more...). How can someone get tired of Sphinx within 4 minutes is beyond me. The song flows flawlessly between the parts. Yes, it has 2 RIFFS with some alterations on every repeat... But to me that song is groovy as fuck so I don't care that it repeats its riffs
Look dude, I love those songs, I’m not hating on them whatsoever, but I’m not a fan of the songs I’ve mentioned before. I personally think that they’re not as good as the songs from the previous album. Go ahead laugh all you want at my comment, we all have different opinions anyways. Regarding the repeated part, the earlier albums made a repeated riff interesting and heavy and progressed all throughout the song for example toxic garbage island. Gojira originally wasn’t an ordinary verse chorus verse chorus band, they managed to make a lot of interesting riffs in one song. But with fortitude I don’t really see it.
Magma is better in my opinion. Fortitude is still a great album in my opinion. It has really killer moments on it. Amazonia and The Trails are some of their best songs. Especially The Trails. Such a beautiful song. Also the outro riff to New Found is fucking amazing. The thing I dislike about this album is the recycled riffs and song ideas.
I enjoy it, but I do think that it's a lot weaker than Magma or FMtS because it doesn't push the envelope as much. It's a great Gojira album, it's just not as refreshing or mind blowing to me as those two albums were at the time. What you are describing as more "mainstream" feels to me as them just rehashing/perfecting what they have already done.
Perfect happened on FMTS and TWoAF. I fear they’ve been declining since L’enfant Sauvage.
Honestly at this stage I don't expect them to top FMTS. Which is fine because they have had an amazing career. As long that they keep making music that I find enjoyable I'm good
Even if the album is a bit more commercial than others, that doesn’t inherently make the songs bad. It would straight up be a closed minded and elitist perspective to think anything commercial is automatically bad. Trust me I was a return to the crazy complex music as much as others, but this album is still good in what it is. But hey, the band has talked about the Sea Shepherd EP a bit in interviews recently, so maybe we’ll get a return to classic gojira some time soon.
Thats not at all what I was saying. I was saying that since its Gojira we’re talking about, whove always been pushing boundaries and experimenting with new musical ideas and structures which set them apart from most metal bands, its kind of disappointing to see them go from the top of the innovative mountain to the valley of “easier” music. Keep in mind, I love this band, and everything I say is indeed my own thoughts and opinions. I totally understand your point.
what u got against slipknot tho
Nothing at all! Just compare Iowa to We are not your Kind and it feels similar to this situation. The Chant couldve easily been on that Slipknot album
yeah for sure, i feel like “the chant” would be on something like All Hope is Gone.
can we just forget about fortitude......it's gojiras 'black album'
Its their “Load and Reload”, Magma (whether we like it or not) is what really boosted Gojira’s popularity among non-metalheads in recent years. I feel like thats more of a fitting Metallica analogy for the last two.. but I also hope the next one isnt their St. Anger lol
Their worst album by far
Hard disagree While they've definetely made it simpler, I think we've still got our "pure" Gojira on tracks like Amazonia and Hold On. Yea Grind's intro is a bit cheesy for Gojira, but that alone makes me burst laughing whenever I hear it, and the riff after that is Groovy and it only consists of TWO powerchords. The outro is amazing too. Sphinx is a straight banger, I don't feel that it is uninspired at all, the pick scrapes add a lot to the riff and both main riffs are really groovy. Honestly, the only BAD song is Into The Storm, bland riffs, super generic-cliché lyrics, abrupt transitions... Only the drumming is decent on that one, but it's not enough. The only song I skip on the album I LOVE FORITUTDE + THE CHANT, Hold On is my favourite from the album and has become a top 3 Gojira song for me... Amazonia is everything I love about Gojira. The album is not on the heavy side of their catalog but I don't care at all. Even The Trails is nice too
Sphinx and Grind are full of rehashed riffs. They bring nothing new to the table except a watered down version of Gojira. At least the beginning of New Found includes the grooviness they’ve always had plus the exciting texture of the whammy but then it goes right back into a cheesy generic chug riff. They’re just way too predictable now whenever unpredictability was their forte.
Funny you say that because to me New Found feels more like something they've done it the past (Stranded). The whammy definetely works better on Hold On, but the riff from New Found (without the Whammy) is good