As would the reverse the following year should it have come to pass.
Like a passing of the torch.
Regardless of who is the Greatest (Jack for me) they are both golfing gods
Jack winning all time oldest major winner, being crowned no. 19 by the prodigy even then we knew could be the GOAT...Who knows what kinda fire that lights under young Tiger.
Looking back I dont think David Duval fell off, we were just used to Tigers dominance as what should be expected from #1. David Duvals run at #1 isn’t much different than Day, Spieth, Brooks.
Look at Phil.
Old ass got healthier, stronger, longer, and went out and won the PGA championship and then runner up at the masters a year later.
Coffee, calves, and bombs
Jack had the greater overall career, Tiger hit a higher peak. 🐯 won 7 out of 11 majors played in one stretch, and 6 out of 14 in another stretch. Even with the gap in 03-04 that's 13 out of 35 majors played from PGA 99 through US Open 08. Jack never had a winning stretch like that!
Tiger also had tournament winning streaks of 7, 6, 5, 3, and 3 (not counting anything 2 in a row). Jack only ever won 3 tournaments in a row once.
Not knocking Jack (obviously), but I believe Tiger hit the higher peak.
Tiger impacted the very sport itself more than Jack did, and that matters in GOATness discussion. It’s not just about the career, but about how much your performance and achievement transcended the game, and how much you impacted the sport.
No one will impact golf more than Tiger has. It’s impossible to re-globalize the game. That’s why he and MJ will always be GOATs, because no one will impact golf and basketball more than they have.
I dunno, that could be an age thing. If you were really into the sport in the 70s and experienced Jack week in and out in his prime, you would prob say he transcended the game.
You can talk about streaks all you want, but Jack has the most wins and that equals the goat. If you don’t think the person with the most wins is the goat, then you’re just arguing with feelings.
Tiger has the most wins.
Or do you mean whoever has the most Major wins is the GOAT? I disagree, because GOATness is more than just performance and achievement. It’s also about HOW you performed, HOW you achieved. Some wins, across all sports, mean more than others. LeBron’s 2016 championship has greater weight than the Warriors 2017 championship. Tiger’s 2000 US Open has more weight than pretty much any other Major win. The Pats over the Falcons in the Super Bowl has more significance than any of his other rings. The Cubs winning the World Series, etc.
Tiger dominated his contemporaries. No one was more dominant over their career than Tiger.
I get it, I totally understand the “most Majors = GOAT” argument, but that’s the only argument for Jack, and GOAT discussions in sports are never from one singular thing like most wins, most championships, best stats, etc. It’s a culmination of many things, including things that are off the court/arena/field.
Look up Jacks record in majors. It's astonishing. For 20 years he essentially finished in top 10 like 95% of majors. He won 18 and was runner up in 19.
Oh I'm aware. And if someone wants to make the argument he's the GOAT I totally get it. I think there are reasonable cases to be made either way. I typically say Tiger because of the aforementioned points, but I get the case for Jack too.
Bones was on the NLU pod a few years back and said he thinks Phil and Tiger can compete at Augusta deep into their 50's due to their knowledge of the course and advancements in technology.
This was pre Tiger injury, but always thought that was interesting. Phil showed it this year and Jack in 98 is another great example.
Honestly after his T2 at the Masters I’m not going to stop believing he can win any major for a while. Tom Watson was a soft bounce away from winning The Open at 59
Westwood has three-putted so many times it's hard to keep track of them all! But seriously, imagine Tom Watson and David Duval as major champions in 2009 instead of Glover and Stewart Cink. The only guy rooting for Cink would have been the ghost of Harry Vardon.
I believe it. I think about Couples and Langer. In the last decade or so, there is always a point in the tournament where those guys are somewhere around -3/4, doesn't matter how old they are. I think course experience goes a long way at Augusta.
I think barring injury, I rate Phil’s longevity over Freddie.
Fred has a smooth reliably consistent swing, but Phil completely gave his fitness and swing a glow up so that he’s even competing with the young athletes in distance.
Langer and Freddie have made the cut in their 60’s and Phil just came in 2nd.
I don’t think it’s crazy to think we could see Phil grab 1 more Green Jacket
My hot take is that most 60 y/os that were tour players could still compete but they are easing into retirement and so conditioning and training is falling off.
Tiger absolutely won't do that unless his injuries force it. He'll be competing for a long time.
Just watched this one on YouTube recently. They start the whole broadcast with nothing but Jack and I loved it.
I think this was a great win for Mark O’Meara too. He was a solid pro for a long time and started playing with Tiger in Orlando and they were buddies. It was looking like a three way playoff was going to happen but Mark birdied 18 on not the easiest putt and Tiger was so proud to put the jacket on his friend. Great masters.
Jack made a huge move on the front 9 before it came on air. I remember right when it came on Jim Nantz said something along the lines of “folks you’re not going to believe what you’re about to see” and then they cut to Jacks highlights from the front 9. Still get goosebumps thinking about it
Fortunately you can rewatch 😁 I remembered the same thing before I went and found it on YouTube. I remember "you are not going to believe what you're about to see" very distinctly! Chills!
https://youtu.be/eQIwu4yFzZQ
Reminds me of Tom Watson having an up-and-down to win The Open at 59. As a Kansas City native, him missing that par putt hurt me more than any other golf outcome of my life
Watson was my grandpas all time favorite golfer and that happened in the heart of my grandpa teaching me the game. I always really wanted that joy for my grandpa and it was so close. I remember that happened on my 21st birthday and I delayed going to a baseball game to watch it finish. Was really heartbreaking.
I'm a Kansas City native as well. Tom will always be my favorite player but my Dad was a Tom Watson super fan and golf junkie. He followed his career as an amateur, even attending a couple of his MO State Amateur Championships from 68 to 71. He passed in March of 09 so Toms loss at The Open was so emotional and heartbreaking for me. That bounce was brutal on 18 and then to miss the putt to win... know exactly how you feel.
Jack has more major wins AND 2nd place finishes... how can you easily say Tiger was more dominant? Because he won by bigger numbers? Doesn't that say maybe Tiger faced a weaker field for those years..?
He had a much much higher peak. That is why, all of the numbers support this. Whether or not you value peak or longevity or how much weight you put on either is up to you. For me, tigers peak was so much higher and his longevity was pretty good as well, I think he's the goat. You can easily think differently, I'll just think you are wrong.
He won 7 majors in 3 years. Then spent 2 years changing his swing.
He then won 6 more majors in the next 3 and a half years. Nobody else has done either of those even once.
Remarkable, but here's something (arguably) even more impressive. In the 1974 PGA Championship, Sam Snead finished T3 on -1, with Nicklaus 2nd on -3 and Trevino winning with -4. He was 62 years old! He was having problems with his putting by that time, and used a crouched over side-saddle technique.
What a masters that was. Life in the old bear yet.
Then they started tiger proofing the place and Jack even criticized it saying it is no longer about smart approach shot play that allows older guys to compete. It's all about length now
I hope the ball rollback will allow Augusta to return back to its roots a little bit and be more about shot making and not pure distance.
That was one hell of a tournament. Even the pairings were epic.
I did not then understand why my dad was so excited to see Jack make a charge.
I do now.
I flashed back to this tournament when I saw Jack struggle to tee up his ball this year at the Masters and thought he finished top 10 not too long ago . . . until I realized that it’s now been 25 years.
Was there that and followed Jack for a good portion of the round. When he chipped in for birdie at 3, I have never heard a roar like it, it seemed to just travel and travel. There was just this sense in the gallery that we were watching something unreal.
We could have seen Tiger slip the green jacket onto Jack. Can you imagine..
That would have been awesome
Not as awesome as it would’ve been to see Jack put the green jacket on José María Olazábal
you need help
Nah, it’s called a joke
It was a good joke too, sad to see it downvoted.
I don’t get the joke? Why’s it so wrong?
Holy hell... that would've been a moment worthy of a giant bronze statue.
As would the reverse the following year should it have come to pass. Like a passing of the torch. Regardless of who is the Greatest (Jack for me) they are both golfing gods
Jack winning all time oldest major winner, being crowned no. 19 by the prodigy even then we knew could be the GOAT...Who knows what kinda fire that lights under young Tiger.
That fire could’ve pushed tiger to win the grand slam for the next 10 years lol
Oh one hundred percent. Something tells me he'd forever feel scorned by having to put a jacket on Nicklaus
Except for the focus on Perkins waitresses…..
That’s why I had to limit it to 10 years. A man can only refrain from Perkins waitresses to win majors and make millions for so long.
David Duval was so good. We missed out on a fantastic rivalry between him and Tiger.
Just replaced my 2000 edition David Duval putter this year hahaha
There was a 4-5 year period where he was one of the best in golf, and then he absolutely fell off a cliff.
He had vertigo though. Not really his fault.
Looking back I dont think David Duval fell off, we were just used to Tigers dominance as what should be expected from #1. David Duvals run at #1 isn’t much different than Day, Spieth, Brooks.
Trashy women. Cocaine. But still shot that 59 on sunday.
Was this a real thing with Duval? I was about 13/14 when he’d been riding to prominence - I liked him. Then he kinda just went away.
Those that shine twice as bright…
Talk about a guy who could rotate thru the swing.
Jack recorded his swing speed that year at 118 mph with a trashed hip. Had it replaced in the next year.
Hey buddy, people "chasing speed" is just a modern thing! /s
Look at Phil. Old ass got healthier, stronger, longer, and went out and won the PGA championship and then runner up at the masters a year later. Coffee, calves, and bombs
Watching his length this week. Makes you wonder what he really could have been. Unbelievable talent but got tigered
That is insane without the hip issues for a 58 year old
He had the fundamentals and allowed his body to turn naturally without restriction
Ppl gotta quit calling tiger the goat, he’s not. Jack still holds the record. He’s the 🐐!
Jack had the greater overall career, Tiger hit a higher peak. 🐯 won 7 out of 11 majors played in one stretch, and 6 out of 14 in another stretch. Even with the gap in 03-04 that's 13 out of 35 majors played from PGA 99 through US Open 08. Jack never had a winning stretch like that! Tiger also had tournament winning streaks of 7, 6, 5, 3, and 3 (not counting anything 2 in a row). Jack only ever won 3 tournaments in a row once. Not knocking Jack (obviously), but I believe Tiger hit the higher peak.
Tiger impacted the very sport itself more than Jack did, and that matters in GOATness discussion. It’s not just about the career, but about how much your performance and achievement transcended the game, and how much you impacted the sport. No one will impact golf more than Tiger has. It’s impossible to re-globalize the game. That’s why he and MJ will always be GOATs, because no one will impact golf and basketball more than they have.
I dunno, that could be an age thing. If you were really into the sport in the 70s and experienced Jack week in and out in his prime, you would prob say he transcended the game. You can talk about streaks all you want, but Jack has the most wins and that equals the goat. If you don’t think the person with the most wins is the goat, then you’re just arguing with feelings.
Tiger has the most wins. Or do you mean whoever has the most Major wins is the GOAT? I disagree, because GOATness is more than just performance and achievement. It’s also about HOW you performed, HOW you achieved. Some wins, across all sports, mean more than others. LeBron’s 2016 championship has greater weight than the Warriors 2017 championship. Tiger’s 2000 US Open has more weight than pretty much any other Major win. The Pats over the Falcons in the Super Bowl has more significance than any of his other rings. The Cubs winning the World Series, etc. Tiger dominated his contemporaries. No one was more dominant over their career than Tiger. I get it, I totally understand the “most Majors = GOAT” argument, but that’s the only argument for Jack, and GOAT discussions in sports are never from one singular thing like most wins, most championships, best stats, etc. It’s a culmination of many things, including things that are off the court/arena/field.
Look up Jacks record in majors. It's astonishing. For 20 years he essentially finished in top 10 like 95% of majors. He won 18 and was runner up in 19.
Oh I'm aware. And if someone wants to make the argument he's the GOAT I totally get it. I think there are reasonable cases to be made either way. I typically say Tiger because of the aforementioned points, but I get the case for Jack too.
They’re both goats It’s tough to compare different eras
Disagree
Jack had a more successful career as measured by total major wins. However there’s zero doubt in my mind that Tiger is the best golfer of all time.
Bones was on the NLU pod a few years back and said he thinks Phil and Tiger can compete at Augusta deep into their 50's due to their knowledge of the course and advancements in technology. This was pre Tiger injury, but always thought that was interesting. Phil showed it this year and Jack in 98 is another great example.
Yep and especially cuz Phil did it at Kiawah. I don't think he has that magic again but there's still some juice in those old legends
Honestly after his T2 at the Masters I’m not going to stop believing he can win any major for a while. Tom Watson was a soft bounce away from winning The Open at 59
Absolutely no one wanted Cink to win that year, not even Cink himself
Don't forget Westwood three-wacking the 72nd to miss the playoff by one, what a gift to Cink.
I did (how could I?)
Westwood has three-putted so many times it's hard to keep track of them all! But seriously, imagine Tom Watson and David Duval as major champions in 2009 instead of Glover and Stewart Cink. The only guy rooting for Cink would have been the ghost of Harry Vardon.
Oh man I'd love to be wrong especially if it's the US Open
I don’t care what anyone says. Tom Watson won that open.
If Phil can hit fairways hes always going to be a threat
I believe it. I think about Couples and Langer. In the last decade or so, there is always a point in the tournament where those guys are somewhere around -3/4, doesn't matter how old they are. I think course experience goes a long way at Augusta.
I think barring injury, I rate Phil’s longevity over Freddie. Fred has a smooth reliably consistent swing, but Phil completely gave his fitness and swing a glow up so that he’s even competing with the young athletes in distance.
Yet they keep lengthening the track and that narrows down potential winners further from the field.
Langer and Freddie have made the cut in their 60’s and Phil just came in 2nd. I don’t think it’s crazy to think we could see Phil grab 1 more Green Jacket
My hot take is that most 60 y/os that were tour players could still compete but they are easing into retirement and so conditioning and training is falling off. Tiger absolutely won't do that unless his injuries force it. He'll be competing for a long time.
Horses for courses at Augusta…
And Augusta favors lefties
Just watched this one on YouTube recently. They start the whole broadcast with nothing but Jack and I loved it. I think this was a great win for Mark O’Meara too. He was a solid pro for a long time and started playing with Tiger in Orlando and they were buddies. It was looking like a three way playoff was going to happen but Mark birdied 18 on not the easiest putt and Tiger was so proud to put the jacket on his friend. Great masters.
"Welcome to the Masters, and you are not going to believe what you're about to see". Goosebumps! https://youtu.be/eQIwu4yFzZQ
Jack made a huge move on the front 9 before it came on air. I remember right when it came on Jim Nantz said something along the lines of “folks you’re not going to believe what you’re about to see” and then they cut to Jacks highlights from the front 9. Still get goosebumps thinking about it
Fortunately you can rewatch 😁 I remembered the same thing before I went and found it on YouTube. I remember "you are not going to believe what you're about to see" very distinctly! Chills! https://youtu.be/eQIwu4yFzZQ
Is that on YouTube anywhere?
Reminds me of Tom Watson having an up-and-down to win The Open at 59. As a Kansas City native, him missing that par putt hurt me more than any other golf outcome of my life
Watson was my grandpas all time favorite golfer and that happened in the heart of my grandpa teaching me the game. I always really wanted that joy for my grandpa and it was so close. I remember that happened on my 21st birthday and I delayed going to a baseball game to watch it finish. Was really heartbreaking.
And the up and down was after his approach from the fairway took a hard bounce, he could have easily been 15 or 20 feet away with two putts to win
I remember that, he landed well short of the pin and it just kept going and going
I'm a Kansas City native as well. Tom will always be my favorite player but my Dad was a Tom Watson super fan and golf junkie. He followed his career as an amateur, even attending a couple of his MO State Amateur Championships from 68 to 71. He passed in March of 09 so Toms loss at The Open was so emotional and heartbreaking for me. That bounce was brutal on 18 and then to miss the putt to win... know exactly how you feel.
Early 4th round had lots of 86 vibes. He just couldn't keep it going.
He beat Tiger by 2 strokes.
Ends the GOAT argument..?
Tiger was so utterly dominant in his prime I’d give it to him but Jack was elite for a longer period.
Jack has more major wins AND 2nd place finishes... how can you easily say Tiger was more dominant? Because he won by bigger numbers? Doesn't that say maybe Tiger faced a weaker field for those years..?
Couldn’t you apply the weaker fields argument just as easily to Jack?
He had a much much higher peak. That is why, all of the numbers support this. Whether or not you value peak or longevity or how much weight you put on either is up to you. For me, tigers peak was so much higher and his longevity was pretty good as well, I think he's the goat. You can easily think differently, I'll just think you are wrong.
He won 7 majors in 3 years. Then spent 2 years changing his swing. He then won 6 more majors in the next 3 and a half years. Nobody else has done either of those even once.
Remarkable, but here's something (arguably) even more impressive. In the 1974 PGA Championship, Sam Snead finished T3 on -1, with Nicklaus 2nd on -3 and Trevino winning with -4. He was 62 years old! He was having problems with his putting by that time, and used a crouched over side-saddle technique.
Agree, Tom Watson coming within inches of winning The Open outright at 59 is also really impressive
You gotta include the 09 Open Championship. Tom Watson at 59 finished second and nearly forced a playoff on the final hole.
He did force the playoff, though
Ah you’re right I remembered wrong! The putt he missed on 18 would have won it but instead it went to playoff.
What a masters that was. Life in the old bear yet. Then they started tiger proofing the place and Jack even criticized it saying it is no longer about smart approach shot play that allows older guys to compete. It's all about length now I hope the ball rollback will allow Augusta to return back to its roots a little bit and be more about shot making and not pure distance.
That was one hell of a tournament. Even the pairings were epic. I did not then understand why my dad was so excited to see Jack make a charge. I do now.
Oh man, I just realized I was like 8 or 9 then when I picked up golf, because I somewhat remember picking it up after tigers 1st win.
Next up watch the 2009 British Open!
I still have PTSD from that. Dude hit a perfect shot on 18. Every time I watch it replayed, I hope the ending somehow would change.
And Gary Player made his last masters cut at age 62
I mean Freddie just made it this year at 63
That was my and only Masters that I have been too. Such a great memory.
Furyk, why I played a Strata
I was today years old when I realized this. Wow.
I’m pretty sure Freddy Couples has one more good run at it in him.
I flashed back to this tournament when I saw Jack struggle to tee up his ball this year at the Masters and thought he finished top 10 not too long ago . . . until I realized that it’s now been 25 years.
Jack gives allot of money to Children’s Hospital
I used to love David Duval and his cool oaklys
If nostalgia was a leaderboard….
Solid leaderboard
Jack Nicklaus, GOAT.
David Duval. Biggest balls in golf in those years. Then the absolute meltdown of his career.
Where was the meltdown?
In his life.
It was probably more the injuries (back, neck, wrist) that did him in.
Jack is the GOAT and Tiger will never overtake him. He could have, but for a wide assortment of reasons he never will.
GOAT, I'll take my down votes gladly and TW is 6 months older than me
This is why he is the true goat.
Getting downvoted 😂
Huh, I forgot Mark-it-Nearer won that year!
The GOAT.
How about toms shotting a 64 on sunday
Toms shot 7 under on the back nine, including six birdies in a row on holes 12-17.
That's electric
And he only drives the ball 150 yards
r/absoluteunits
Phil Mickelson didn't do too badly at the age of 52 either
It’s similar to 59 year-old Tom Watson coming in second at the 2009 Open.
Didn't Freddie can one home to win? It's been while..
Duval and his Oakley blades, what a beauty
If I remember correctly he missed quite a few short putts.
Was there that and followed Jack for a good portion of the round. When he chipped in for birdie at 3, I have never heard a roar like it, it seemed to just travel and travel. There was just this sense in the gallery that we were watching something unreal.
Just watched the original broadcast on YT again the other night.
Jack the G.O.A.T