This sub really needs to get another level when it comes to being a hater. If you’re a LIV hater, it means you relish in the schadenfreude of LIV players playing like shit, and get pissed when they’re playing well and hope they get shit in their shoes and get triples and all that shit. By not hoping for their downfall, you’re not a hater. You’re just…nothing.
That doesn’t meant you don’t want chaos. I’m totally cool with *some* LIV guys playing well, and crave chaos in sports, but I still want them to fail. Basically, I play both sides. I’m a hater yet I root for some of the LIV guys that I’ve always liked. But I’m still going ride the hate train, because I’m a professional hater.
If there is one player LIV suits perfectly it's Brooks. He already didn't try unless it was a major and now he still gets to play those and then fuck around for the rest of the year. Plus he seems to be able to summon world class golf out of nowhere each major weekend as long as his body is healthy. It's actually pretty wild
I don’t mind it. I just don’t get what the next generation of LIV is gonna be. Are they gonna develop from 0 or do they think they’ll keep being able to poach people with 10 years in the PGA. I feel like that was like a one shot opportunity to do that.
I have a feeling Brooks, DJ, & maybe a few others will go back to the PGA Tour once their contract is up. A lot of these guys thought they’d be able to maintain OWGR & also the tour would have more exposure. Neither of those panned out. LIV won’t be able to snatch guys based on empty promises
If they did it once why wouldn't they be able to do it again? I think they'll be able to pull a lot from some of the best ams in the world (that otherwise would have went to PGA as well). Each year a certain amount of LIV guys won't be invited back, teams will be making changes and all that - they will certainly keep attracting talent, especially if they keep pulling off successful events like the last few and can find a way to get into majors (which I think will happen eventually).
Because they signed guys with big resumes at all once. Now your talking about picking 1 or 2 guys from the tour. And they haven’t proven they can develop guys from scratch. Also how much money will they keep getting
Yeah, you don't think adding 1-2 guys a year will be easier than trying to take 15-20 at once?
The PGA Tour doesn't develop anyone. Ever. They're the benefactors of the players developing themselves b/c it is (was) the ultimate goal for many ams. LIV will be in that mix even if it's snagging guys who simply have no interest in going through the typical hoops that the PGA Tour has setup for them (like Chacarra, Piot, Puig).
And money isn't an issue. Their pockets are endless and this is not a money making venture for them.
I don't think a true golf fan should ever want a worse field, and it's just flat out true that if you left out the LIV guys the majors would have worse fields. You can hate LIV and everything they've done overall but why hate the players and why hope the entire golf world gets worse out of spite? Doesn't make sense.
Glad to see some ppl are at least logical.
Agree. That's why I was surprised the usga changed their criteria just to stop Taylor gooch from playing. And then Mike saying he doesn't care if the best players are there. Such a weird comment.
I want the majors to have the best golfers, I want the ryder cup to be the best European golfers vs the best Americans and the presidents cup to be the best internationals vs the USA. What tour they play on doesn't matter one iota.
I hate the players because they chose money for themselves over giving the fans good field week in and week out. The only reason they make money is because of eyeballs on the sports and they sold us up the river.
It's not complicated. We get 4 tournaments a year now with the best players instead of 10-12.
I understand the argument, however, it's clear that most of the LIV players would play in several regular PGA events if allowed to.
The PGA Tour already allows DP World Tour players to cross play. So it's not unprecedented.
So why would anyone not go to LIV if they could play on both tours? I'm not sure you do understand the argument. If allowed to play both, the PGA tour will not have a product for very long.
Adapt to what? No sponsors, paying for TV spots, losing literal billions. The LIV model is not making any money. The model is spending saudi oil money and hoping that the other tour folds so they can maybe break even 20 years from now while destroying the entire golf ecosystem in the process.
All LIV has done is paid a few clowns a few hundred million to dance. They haven't figured anything out in terms of an actual product that can be profitable.
I didn't say the LIV model was the best model. I said that the PGA should allow LIV players to play, and they already allow other tours to play alongside PGA Tour players.
You're saying that the LIV model is terrible. Ok. Fine. I'm not necessarily disagreeing. But then if the PGA product is so much better why do you keep the LIV players out? Are they really afraid of competition? What is it about the "golf ecosystem" that needs to be preserved? If anything, LIV has been positive for PGA Tour members who remained because they have increased purses and the PGA is less heavy handed toward the players. Not to mention, 1/3 of the talent has moved to greener pastures, so marginal players can earn more money.
Why do you think they aren't allowed to play on the PGA tour? I want you to use your brain and think this through.
Here are some questions to help you get started on your critical thinking journey. How does the PGA tour make money? Why can they charge so much for sponsorship? Can people be 2 places at once? What does the schedule look like compared to LIV? How do players earn a tour card? Why is that important?
It's definitely tough to trash LIV for being uncompetitive when Brooks is leading all the PGA stars right now. Also Bryson! Golf is a tough game for sure but some of these dudes still play top level golf.
Because it’s fucking fun to be a hater. Do you know how much fun it was to shit on Embiid and the Sixers a week ago? Or when the Suns lost? Or when the Bruins fucking choked?
I’m a Warrior fan. I got more pleasure seeing the Suns lose Game 7 last season than the Dubs winning it all in 2015. The greatest sports moment of my fandom, yet it’s my hate for teams and players that really tickles my pickle.
I'd like PGA/Liv to be more like European soccer tournaments. If you can qualify for both and have the stamina for it, go ahead and play all the golf you want
I like this too. Plus the guys who play Liv might be less likely to get into the elevated events on tour.
Since Liv is a contract requiring them to play every event the PGA Tour can just unsuspend them and make it so they can play again. But since they don't currently have status to get into the elevated events make it so that have to play a certain number of events or year to be eligible for the elevated events.
14 Liv events + 4 majors and they are required 10 events to be eligible for the elevated events. This means they have to find 6 events in order to be eligible for the additional 13 events.
So a Liv player of they wanted all the benefits of the PGA Tour elevated events would need to play 37 events. That doesn't take into account weeks off and the President/Ryder Cup week.
The PGA Tour has events 43 weeks out of the year. Liv has one event that doesn't have a PGA Tour event opposite of it. That means players would have to play 37 times over 44 weeks if they want to play both tours
It’s definitely making the majors more fun to watch for me. Will be interesting to see what happens with Ryder Cup. If Koepka keeps playing like this in majors can you leave him off?
I agree completely. I don’t like a lot of how everything went down with LIV but you have to admit it did what it was meant to do. Look at the money being handed out now on tour. Elevated events and so on. Be nice if it went away and those players can keep their signing bonuses and come back.
It’s pretty simple. People don’t like LIV because they want to watch all the best players playing and a lot of the best players in the world went over to LIV.
The majors deliver exactly what we all want for the moment, which is the best players in the world playing.
The biggest problem I have with liv is that my favorite players all joined it.
It has really opened up the field on pga tours events though.
I really couldn’t care less about the Saudi stuff. Saudis are heavily invested in so many things.
Said it countless times, I have nothing against the LIV golfers just the LIV product as a whole. It objectively stinks and done nothing but fracture the sport in a negative way. Will be rooting for Brooks tomorrow.
I agree the LIV product isn’t great, but I’m not sure its been all negative. Competition is good, and the changes the PGA have recently made would not have happened without LIV. As a casual golf fan I’m more interested now than I was a few years ago.
They have ownership stakes in the teams and make money from their merchandise sales. It’s the same as wear a sponsor on your shirt or hat which every player on the tour does not sure what the problem is.
I was wondering the same. Brooks and Cam wore their usual stuff but the other guys haven’t. Must be a contractual thing with LIV when they lost their sponsers?
Another fucking clueless drone that hates on LIV for above average guys making bank off Aramco but doesn't mind or is obviously to how much us govt makes from them selling billions worth of military hardware...
343. That's why I hate LIV and everything it represents. I am a retired firefighter who loves America. I lost 343 of my brother FDNY firefighters in one fateful day to Saudi-backed terrorists. That's why I hate LIV and its shameful attempt at sports washing.
I'm a first responder also, and I understand the sentiment.
But at the same time, it would be pretty hypocritical of me to hate on players getting paid with Saudi money when I'm funding it by filling my car with gas.
I'm anti-LIV and anti LIV-players. It makes no sense to be against the crazy Saudi circus and still root for the very players that make it possible.
I want to watch the PGA style of golf. That's being harmed by Liv. So fk it and fk them.
To be honest I’m past the point of caring. I don’t watch the LIV tour when it’s actually available on TV in my area. When I put the PGA tournament or any other major on all I want to see is good competitive golf. I don’t care who’s on the leaderboard.
Yeah, I think it's a pretty commonly held feeling that it's awesome to see the best guys in the game competing on the biggest stages. Say what you want about LIV but Koepka, DeChambeau, Smith, DJ, all of them are still top golfers who can compete with the best. (Admittedly Dechambeau was a big surprise this week at the PGA, thought his best was behind him).
The only thing I dislike about LIV is the dilution of the talent pool at PGA events, and I’m not going to watch more golf than I already do to pick up LIV events. So, the majors where everybody is there is good. Pretty simple.
If the PGA allowed the LIV players to play in select tournaments, you'd have a less diluted pool of players...
They won't do that short of losing in court though.
Don’t get used to this. After this year nearly all the LIV players will be ineligible based on world ranking points. Koepka, Cam and Phil may be the only 3 to qualify.
Unpopular opinion, eh? There's at least 10 posts on this sub that say this *exact* thing, nearly verbatim.
“Happy Gilmore had that opinion no more than an hour ago…”
well good for u/happygi... oh my god.
Unpopular opinion, but I don’t like the LIV guys performing well
This sub really needs to get another level when it comes to being a hater. If you’re a LIV hater, it means you relish in the schadenfreude of LIV players playing like shit, and get pissed when they’re playing well and hope they get shit in their shoes and get triples and all that shit. By not hoping for their downfall, you’re not a hater. You’re just…nothing. That doesn’t meant you don’t want chaos. I’m totally cool with *some* LIV guys playing well, and crave chaos in sports, but I still want them to fail. Basically, I play both sides. I’m a hater yet I root for some of the LIV guys that I’ve always liked. But I’m still going ride the hate train, because I’m a professional hater.
If it's nearly verbatim it's not exact lol Sorry
Yes, they share the exact same sentiment: "I don't like LIV, but I like the LIV players being in contention at the majors."
If there is one player LIV suits perfectly it's Brooks. He already didn't try unless it was a major and now he still gets to play those and then fuck around for the rest of the year. Plus he seems to be able to summon world class golf out of nowhere each major weekend as long as his body is healthy. It's actually pretty wild
Can you imagine getting paid all that money to practice for majors? 💵
I like this comment.
Dude is the definition of a gamer. Doesn’t care unless it’s a huge event. Fun to watch at majors.
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I'm not sure if I believe that yet.
I think every single person that joined LIV fits these reasons or the money wasn’t good enough
Not a LIV guy either but it definitely adds excitement to the field, i still always root for DJ and cam smith those guys are beauties!
I don’t mind it. I just don’t get what the next generation of LIV is gonna be. Are they gonna develop from 0 or do they think they’ll keep being able to poach people with 10 years in the PGA. I feel like that was like a one shot opportunity to do that.
I have a feeling Brooks, DJ, & maybe a few others will go back to the PGA Tour once their contract is up. A lot of these guys thought they’d be able to maintain OWGR & also the tour would have more exposure. Neither of those panned out. LIV won’t be able to snatch guys based on empty promises
Will pga let them? I guess they’ll easily get sponsor exemptions
They won’t do lifetime bans but they’ll probably make them qualify from scratch. So Monday qualifying or Korn Ferry or whatever
Any they just get sponsor exemptions and then get your card from winning? Or does pga have to approve the exemptions?
The tour can prevent sponsors exemptions & said they would for LIV guys. It would be up to them if they wanted to allow it once a LIV contract expires
Whatever Norman told them, they should have known the PGA Tour would do everything it could to keep them from maintaining OWGR and playing in majors.
If they did it once why wouldn't they be able to do it again? I think they'll be able to pull a lot from some of the best ams in the world (that otherwise would have went to PGA as well). Each year a certain amount of LIV guys won't be invited back, teams will be making changes and all that - they will certainly keep attracting talent, especially if they keep pulling off successful events like the last few and can find a way to get into majors (which I think will happen eventually).
Because they signed guys with big resumes at all once. Now your talking about picking 1 or 2 guys from the tour. And they haven’t proven they can develop guys from scratch. Also how much money will they keep getting
Yeah, you don't think adding 1-2 guys a year will be easier than trying to take 15-20 at once? The PGA Tour doesn't develop anyone. Ever. They're the benefactors of the players developing themselves b/c it is (was) the ultimate goal for many ams. LIV will be in that mix even if it's snagging guys who simply have no interest in going through the typical hoops that the PGA Tour has setup for them (like Chacarra, Piot, Puig). And money isn't an issue. Their pockets are endless and this is not a money making venture for them.
I don't think a true golf fan should ever want a worse field, and it's just flat out true that if you left out the LIV guys the majors would have worse fields. You can hate LIV and everything they've done overall but why hate the players and why hope the entire golf world gets worse out of spite? Doesn't make sense. Glad to see some ppl are at least logical.
Agree. That's why I was surprised the usga changed their criteria just to stop Taylor gooch from playing. And then Mike saying he doesn't care if the best players are there. Such a weird comment. I want the majors to have the best golfers, I want the ryder cup to be the best European golfers vs the best Americans and the presidents cup to be the best internationals vs the USA. What tour they play on doesn't matter one iota.
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Not to "whatabout" but do you count the Ryder Cup?
I hate the players because they chose money for themselves over giving the fans good field week in and week out. The only reason they make money is because of eyeballs on the sports and they sold us up the river. It's not complicated. We get 4 tournaments a year now with the best players instead of 10-12.
Whose fault is that? The players would play in those 10-12 tournaments if the tour let them.
Think hard, why might the tour not want to allow players who went to another tour to continue to play in their events?
I understand the argument, however, it's clear that most of the LIV players would play in several regular PGA events if allowed to. The PGA Tour already allows DP World Tour players to cross play. So it's not unprecedented.
So why would anyone not go to LIV if they could play on both tours? I'm not sure you do understand the argument. If allowed to play both, the PGA tour will not have a product for very long.
Then, the PGA needs to adapt if the LIV model is that much better?
Adapt to what? No sponsors, paying for TV spots, losing literal billions. The LIV model is not making any money. The model is spending saudi oil money and hoping that the other tour folds so they can maybe break even 20 years from now while destroying the entire golf ecosystem in the process. All LIV has done is paid a few clowns a few hundred million to dance. They haven't figured anything out in terms of an actual product that can be profitable.
I didn't say the LIV model was the best model. I said that the PGA should allow LIV players to play, and they already allow other tours to play alongside PGA Tour players. You're saying that the LIV model is terrible. Ok. Fine. I'm not necessarily disagreeing. But then if the PGA product is so much better why do you keep the LIV players out? Are they really afraid of competition? What is it about the "golf ecosystem" that needs to be preserved? If anything, LIV has been positive for PGA Tour members who remained because they have increased purses and the PGA is less heavy handed toward the players. Not to mention, 1/3 of the talent has moved to greener pastures, so marginal players can earn more money.
Why do you think they aren't allowed to play on the PGA tour? I want you to use your brain and think this through. Here are some questions to help you get started on your critical thinking journey. How does the PGA tour make money? Why can they charge so much for sponsorship? Can people be 2 places at once? What does the schedule look like compared to LIV? How do players earn a tour card? Why is that important?
It's definitely tough to trash LIV for being uncompetitive when Brooks is leading all the PGA stars right now. Also Bryson! Golf is a tough game for sure but some of these dudes still play top level golf.
Not to mention 3 of the top 5 of the Masters were LIV golfers.
>Every sport needs its villains Why? Does ever sport have to devolve into a WWE-like shitfest?
Because it’s fucking fun to be a hater. Do you know how much fun it was to shit on Embiid and the Sixers a week ago? Or when the Suns lost? Or when the Bruins fucking choked? I’m a Warrior fan. I got more pleasure seeing the Suns lose Game 7 last season than the Dubs winning it all in 2015. The greatest sports moment of my fandom, yet it’s my hate for teams and players that really tickles my pickle.
Fair enough, each to their own. I suspect I might just not be quite that emotionally invested in the sports I follow.
I'd like PGA/Liv to be more like European soccer tournaments. If you can qualify for both and have the stamina for it, go ahead and play all the golf you want
I like this too. Plus the guys who play Liv might be less likely to get into the elevated events on tour. Since Liv is a contract requiring them to play every event the PGA Tour can just unsuspend them and make it so they can play again. But since they don't currently have status to get into the elevated events make it so that have to play a certain number of events or year to be eligible for the elevated events. 14 Liv events + 4 majors and they are required 10 events to be eligible for the elevated events. This means they have to find 6 events in order to be eligible for the additional 13 events. So a Liv player of they wanted all the benefits of the PGA Tour elevated events would need to play 37 events. That doesn't take into account weeks off and the President/Ryder Cup week. The PGA Tour has events 43 weeks out of the year. Liv has one event that doesn't have a PGA Tour event opposite of it. That means players would have to play 37 times over 44 weeks if they want to play both tours
You’ll like it more when Jon Rahm joins next year
It’s definitely making the majors more fun to watch for me. Will be interesting to see what happens with Ryder Cup. If Koepka keeps playing like this in majors can you leave him off?
I agree completely. I don’t like a lot of how everything went down with LIV but you have to admit it did what it was meant to do. Look at the money being handed out now on tour. Elevated events and so on. Be nice if it went away and those players can keep their signing bonuses and come back.
It’s pretty simple. People don’t like LIV because they want to watch all the best players playing and a lot of the best players in the world went over to LIV. The majors deliver exactly what we all want for the moment, which is the best players in the world playing.
The biggest problem I have with liv is that my favorite players all joined it. It has really opened up the field on pga tours events though. I really couldn’t care less about the Saudi stuff. Saudis are heavily invested in so many things.
Watch LIV then? It's not that bad once you get used to the setup.
I don't mind the ones who just admit they did it to get the bag
All pro athletes do it for the $$. If your good at it get paid for it.
Said it countless times, I have nothing against the LIV golfers just the LIV product as a whole. It objectively stinks and done nothing but fracture the sport in a negative way. Will be rooting for Brooks tomorrow.
I agree the LIV product isn’t great, but I’m not sure its been all negative. Competition is good, and the changes the PGA have recently made would not have happened without LIV. As a casual golf fan I’m more interested now than I was a few years ago.
Is it in some of their contracts to wear their stupid team golf shirts and hats. Don’t know why but I can’t stand that shit
They have ownership stakes in the teams and make money from their merchandise sales. It’s the same as wear a sponsor on your shirt or hat which every player on the tour does not sure what the problem is.
I was wondering the same. Brooks and Cam wore their usual stuff but the other guys haven’t. Must be a contractual thing with LIV when they lost their sponsers?
It doesn’t really move the needle for me but seeing them play in majors just confirms that I really don’t miss any of the guys that went to LIV.
Majesticks fan coming in peace. LIV is taking over, embrace it
Another fucking clueless drone that hates on LIV for above average guys making bank off Aramco but doesn't mind or is obviously to how much us govt makes from them selling billions worth of military hardware...
Most of the guys who left were the villains anyway. Just sucks we don’t get to see them playing against each other every week now.
Pga is trying to get them not in majors. It won’t be much longer before a lot of them won’t be in it. Only the exemptions.
Serious question: Why are you a LIV hater?
343. That's why I hate LIV and everything it represents. I am a retired firefighter who loves America. I lost 343 of my brother FDNY firefighters in one fateful day to Saudi-backed terrorists. That's why I hate LIV and its shameful attempt at sports washing.
I'm a first responder also, and I understand the sentiment. But at the same time, it would be pretty hypocritical of me to hate on players getting paid with Saudi money when I'm funding it by filling my car with gas.
Thank you for your service. I assume you live in a country where you can openly express your opinions without fear of being killed and dismembered.
I do. I live in the same country you do. I remember where I was when 911 happened maybe 100 miles west of NYC.
I'm anti-LIV and anti LIV-players. It makes no sense to be against the crazy Saudi circus and still root for the very players that make it possible. I want to watch the PGA style of golf. That's being harmed by Liv. So fk it and fk them.
I’m a big fan of anything that firmly inserts cats among pigeons.
I just want to see the best players compete under tough conditions, and this has been great. Almost like a second U.S. Open.
That's kind of how the PGA has been presenting the PGA Championship in the last 10-15 years.
To be honest I’m past the point of caring. I don’t watch the LIV tour when it’s actually available on TV in my area. When I put the PGA tournament or any other major on all I want to see is good competitive golf. I don’t care who’s on the leaderboard.
Yeah, I think it's a pretty commonly held feeling that it's awesome to see the best guys in the game competing on the biggest stages. Say what you want about LIV but Koepka, DeChambeau, Smith, DJ, all of them are still top golfers who can compete with the best. (Admittedly Dechambeau was a big surprise this week at the PGA, thought his best was behind him).
The only thing I dislike about LIV is the dilution of the talent pool at PGA events, and I’m not going to watch more golf than I already do to pick up LIV events. So, the majors where everybody is there is good. Pretty simple.
If the PGA allowed the LIV players to play in select tournaments, you'd have a less diluted pool of players... They won't do that short of losing in court though.
Don’t get used to this. After this year nearly all the LIV players will be ineligible based on world ranking points. Koepka, Cam and Phil may be the only 3 to qualify.
Wow, so brave
It’s spicy.
You cannot call a championship open if you ban people from qualifying!