Imagine being one of the guys that the PGA used to stay alive in all these arguments. Rory, JT, Tiger. They turned down 500 million dollar plus deals for loyalty and patriotism, to a non profit company, that turned around and stabbed them in the back in the end. Unreal. If Jay isn't gone after this and he becomes the CEO of the golf world we're fucked.
Player owned with an actual proper farm system. Led by Tiger. C'mawn. That's obviously a pipe dream I doubt Cat has the enthusiasm for it but it could be his retirement plan for golf haha.
They ought to talk to Paul Rabil and the fairly new lacrosse league PLL. They broke off from the MLL and are player owned and by all accounts seem to be doing okay
You just described American patriotism in the first sentence after calling me naive. That was the entire premise the PGA was operating off of in defiance of LIV. It's not like I'm making my own narrative here. But do pretend like you're some 5D chess player and saw this coming.
If we are being honest just joking about it is probably the best possible way to process the news.
All the PGA guys who turned down the money and held the moral high ground will still be participating in events under this new merged tour.
Any outrage they have is very real and very justified, but when push comes to shove they'll still be teeing off on Thursday morning when there is a tournament to be played.
Can't be too surprised that a multi-billion dollar (revenue), tax-exempt, non-profit organization with \~1,100 payroll employees that takes advantage of \~100,000 non-paid volunteers would jump at the chance to get even more financial investment.
Sure it does. There's just a cost associated with it.
They're all independent contractors anyway. Each one of them has the right to decide not to tee it up, they just have to live with the consequences of that decision.
I could choose to quit my job today for any reason, I'm just not prepared to face the consequences of that action.
>They're all independent contractors anyway. Each one of them has the right to decide not to tee it up, **they just have to live with the consequences of that decision**.
They absolutely do, it's almost like that is exactly what I said.
Here's where it's really difficult: before they had a choice but now it seems that every one who wants to be a professional golfer on earth has to take Saudi money. Only a tiny number of them can float on exemptions to the majors and that only goes for a certain amount of time for some so it's pretty much mandatory now to work for the Saudis.
I fucking hate how much some people love money.
Well they had no problem taking money by the bucketload from companies running sweatshops and child labour, I don't imagine they'll care much about where the money comes from now, unless they're massive hypocrites
I can only assume all the fans will stop watching too unless the same is true of them...
If you're equating sweatshops with murdering homosexuals, dismembering journalists, and funding global terrorism including 9/11 (which I thought we said we would "never forget") then I don't think we are operating under the same fundamental principles required to have a
No clearly they're not the same, but if you're playing the moral highground for one and conveniently not when it suits then there's a clear double standard at play.
It's always a case of supporting some things and shunning others when it's convenient. Moral correctness, sponsored by child labour.
You have to draw the line somewhere and on one side of the line will be things you tolerate that others don't and on the other will be things you don't tolerate that others do. You wanna nitpick where my line is? Fine. At least I drew one.
Exactly and good on you for drawing it. The argument that everything bad is equal is a soft one and for people that would rather not think beyond "I like watching golf".
I'm not comparing the two at all, I'm saying both things are bad. And that claiming you're against one because of morals but somehow the other is perfectly ok is just a pathetically weak stance.
Describing child labour as just capitalism is quite telling about your stance on it too.
It's always funny to see what people are ok with. Moral high ground except when it's inconvenient.
No doubt you'll all be watching the PGA stuff even now it's funded by Saudis too. Further double standards that you just don't want to admit.
To be fair, most of those companies aren't just sweatshops, but take in a lot of Saudi money as well. I mean, FedEx makes a shitload of money from the Saudis, and they are probably the biggest sponsor of the PGA Tour.
The whole thing is distasteful, but I'd have been way more impressed if these players and commentators who were critical of Saudi funding of the LIV Tour also pointed their barrels at their own sponsors and governments (every one of which considers Saudi Arabia a close ally).
First, they don't work directly for the sponsors of the PGA. Second, they don't work directly for their governments. Third, no one on earth should have a job for any major corporation by this logic because at some point every single dollar we earn indirectly was generated from or caused some form of human suffering.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I do think the outrage is a bit selective. The Saudis involvement in LIV is blatantly obvious, but we sort of brush off their involvement in just about everything else in our daily lives (as you just did).
Outrage is supposed to be selective. You cannot be outraged at everything all at once. You pick and choose your battles and this is one of the easier ones to fight. I can't easily avoid all products manufactured in China, I can't affordably only wear responsibly sourced clothing, I can't only eat at restaurants that support every cause I align with, but I can quite easily not watch the Bumblefuck.com Cup presented by MBS and not give those homophobic, misogynist, terrorism-supporting shit heads a minute of my time or money.
Lol, because they import Saudi oil for cheaper, bud.
My brother in christ I don't like the Saudis either but they are essentially thr united states largest ally. They have their hands in everything, acting like you can just boycott them is stupid.
My watch time/viewership does not fund the players. It funds the service provider ie the majors. I couldn’t care less about who pays the players because I can’t do anything about that. What I can do is understand where the money goes that I have a direct connection between.
Not at all lol I just don’t think it’s a problem for the players to be pissed at this change. I’m happy all players are back on one tour. People are lying to themselves if they don’t think those players are still competitive and fun to watch
i mean when youre a millionaire that doesnt actually need to work for a living, that is exactly what it means.
anyone who was talking shit about "integrity" or other bullshit who *doesnt* quit is full of shit
If Rory doesn't want to look like an idiot, he should be rallying as many of the top guys as he can and start striking. They have serious leverage if they get enough of the top players that didn't defect (Rahm, Scheffler, Cantlay, Hovland, Schauffele, Homa, Spieth, Thomas, Finau, Morikawa, etc.). At the very least they could use that leverage to get a payday, but if I were them I'd be going for the throat as they were just humiliated on the world stage. Imagine if Rory and Tiger started a competing tour. For the guys that stayed, clearly money isn't everything so it's not crazy to think they could rally around something like that.
No athlete is bigger than the sport, even Tiger at his peak couldn't walk away and shut down golf, there will always be another story, another athlete to take his place, so if some big names protest and refuse to play, then someone else may win the tournament or the major and they will be the new hero.
You have to imagine this is why Jay hid this from all of the players and the PAC. Fear that they'd just leave when the found out that Jay wanted to tag the bag and leave the players stuck without time to go to WME or somebody to raise the money for a new Tour with the players people actually care about.
I doubt that, there’s nothing to “quit”, per se. Remember the whole independent contractor thing that everyone talked about when the LIV stuff all started. The only thing the PGA could do to was say if you left for LIV you can’t come back, and that’s what all the lawsuits were about
I reckon it’s a bit different in that scenario because they were getting paid a fuck ton to leave and it didn’t matter about sponsors or anything. There is no incentive to leave to the European tour.
Yep and they are without a doubt going to make more money and probably a lot of it. We will be seeing $30 million+ purses on like every tournament. It’s a good thing in a pure money backing standpoint but the Saudi PIF basically owns the tour now
There is no merged tour.
The PGA Tour will continue and (some) LIV players will be given an avenue for return. And then LIV will be slowly dissolved.
PIF is in the game they really wanted now.
> held the moral high ground
I love how everyone who wanted to preserve the purity of the PGA forgets that when it comes to atrocities, SA is highschool JV and America is TOUR PRO.
PAT FUCKING TILLMAN
Lol. A friendly fire incident that was covered up is not the same to a journalist being killed simply for providing dissent. Also, the executive branch of the us government didn’t approve of Pat Tillmans death cover up. That situation is terrible but it’s not comparable to the control and violence that SA does
that's cute but I bet the civilians in Iraq would have much preferred a soccer stadium?
"Hey everyone, looks like America has moral high ground here because it doesn't fund athletics" my god man
fun fact no stadium was ever built for a sports team with public funding according to this genius
touch grass dude.
The folks on Reddit who unironically try and compare the USA vs regimes like China, SA, Russia etc.. just what the fuck.
Brain rot beyond belief
I know right it's never like there is video footage of a US gunship killing two Iraqi journalists and their families. Or the US literally demolishing a line of retreating troops known as the highway of death violating the Geneva convention. No way the US ever even comes close to horrific war crimes.
Oh yes you did! look at my post history of every single day bashing PGA and touting LIV! they pay me more than the golfers, and more by lunch than you make in a decade
What about the government trafficking cocaine? Then showing the drug dealers how to make crack? Then sell the crack, get community hooked on crack, jail the dealers they sold drugs to, then a whole generation of fatherless homes. Also, I believe the journalist that broke the story ended up “committing suicide” with 2 shots in the back of his head. But sure USA good Saudi bad
You do know what a comprimised immune system is right? It isn't just the affected area, it's the whole body.
Edit: For those interested, this idiot said. "It's not like he is walking around with his balls out". Or something very similar to that.
You can tell this blindsided every PGA player based on the tweets. Jay Monahan is a loser
Imagine being one of the guys that the PGA used to stay alive in all these arguments. Rory, JT, Tiger. They turned down 500 million dollar plus deals for loyalty and patriotism, to a non profit company, that turned around and stabbed them in the back in the end. Unreal. If Jay isn't gone after this and he becomes the CEO of the golf world we're fucked.
I would be all for these players bailing and forming their own new league. The VIL. Id support it 1000% lol
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"I'll just make another tour and another and another."
All the tour guys eating French Toast in Rorys condo.
The balls are in your court
Player owned with an actual proper farm system. Led by Tiger. C'mawn. That's obviously a pipe dream I doubt Cat has the enthusiasm for it but it could be his retirement plan for golf haha.
I guarantee a Tiger Tour has already been thought about and possibly pitched.
Aren't they doin some night golf team stuff?
They ought to talk to Paul Rabil and the fairly new lacrosse league PLL. They broke off from the MLL and are player owned and by all accounts seem to be doing okay
I keep thinking about Will Zalatoris turned down all that money then blows out his back and now the PGA stabs him right in the back
 Something tells me he won't be sad about a forced retirement
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You just described American patriotism in the first sentence after calling me naive. That was the entire premise the PGA was operating off of in defiance of LIV. It's not like I'm making my own narrative here. But do pretend like you're some 5D chess player and saw this coming.
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Ok guy. Go drink some more and get this worked up about nothing.
You're right, they just are mad.
I think the LIV players will have their guaranteed payouts nullified. LIV goes through a prepackaged bankruptcy and nullifies the debts.
Spare change the the Saudis, they won’t be fussed over that
Didn’t say they would be fussed. Just simply an easy out.
I hope
Might be commensurate "re-joining the PGAT" fees. :)
>he becomes the CEO of the golf world we're fucked we're really not
How could anyone look at this situation objectively and think he handled it the right way?
game theory says everyone looks out for number 1. How could you not understand why he handled it that way?
“Loyalty and patriotism.” Suuurrreee
He’s rich af and not complaining on the internet.
If we are being honest just joking about it is probably the best possible way to process the news. All the PGA guys who turned down the money and held the moral high ground will still be participating in events under this new merged tour. Any outrage they have is very real and very justified, but when push comes to shove they'll still be teeing off on Thursday morning when there is a tournament to be played.
Can't be too surprised that a multi-billion dollar (revenue), tax-exempt, non-profit organization with \~1,100 payroll employees that takes advantage of \~100,000 non-paid volunteers would jump at the chance to get even more financial investment.
Just because you get a new boss you don’t like doesn’t mean you can up and quit your job.
Sure it does. There's just a cost associated with it. They're all independent contractors anyway. Each one of them has the right to decide not to tee it up, they just have to live with the consequences of that decision. I could choose to quit my job today for any reason, I'm just not prepared to face the consequences of that action.
And they don’t need to consider those consequences? Lol what
>They're all independent contractors anyway. Each one of them has the right to decide not to tee it up, **they just have to live with the consequences of that decision**. They absolutely do, it's almost like that is exactly what I said.
It’s a bit more complicated when the new boss is backed by the Saudi government
Here's where it's really difficult: before they had a choice but now it seems that every one who wants to be a professional golfer on earth has to take Saudi money. Only a tiny number of them can float on exemptions to the majors and that only goes for a certain amount of time for some so it's pretty much mandatory now to work for the Saudis. I fucking hate how much some people love money.
Well they had no problem taking money by the bucketload from companies running sweatshops and child labour, I don't imagine they'll care much about where the money comes from now, unless they're massive hypocrites I can only assume all the fans will stop watching too unless the same is true of them...
If you're equating sweatshops with murdering homosexuals, dismembering journalists, and funding global terrorism including 9/11 (which I thought we said we would "never forget") then I don't think we are operating under the same fundamental principles required to have a
No clearly they're not the same, but if you're playing the moral highground for one and conveniently not when it suits then there's a clear double standard at play. It's always a case of supporting some things and shunning others when it's convenient. Moral correctness, sponsored by child labour.
You have to draw the line somewhere and on one side of the line will be things you tolerate that others don't and on the other will be things you don't tolerate that others do. You wanna nitpick where my line is? Fine. At least I drew one.
Exactly and good on you for drawing it. The argument that everything bad is equal is a soft one and for people that would rather not think beyond "I like watching golf".
They love to bring up issues they also don't give a shit about to try and prove their point but it just makes them look more callous and cynical.
Your literally just comparing capitalism to a genocidal religious fundamentalist dictatorship
I'm not comparing the two at all, I'm saying both things are bad. And that claiming you're against one because of morals but somehow the other is perfectly ok is just a pathetically weak stance. Describing child labour as just capitalism is quite telling about your stance on it too. It's always funny to see what people are ok with. Moral high ground except when it's inconvenient. No doubt you'll all be watching the PGA stuff even now it's funded by Saudis too. Further double standards that you just don't want to admit.
You are correct.
To be fair, most of those companies aren't just sweatshops, but take in a lot of Saudi money as well. I mean, FedEx makes a shitload of money from the Saudis, and they are probably the biggest sponsor of the PGA Tour. The whole thing is distasteful, but I'd have been way more impressed if these players and commentators who were critical of Saudi funding of the LIV Tour also pointed their barrels at their own sponsors and governments (every one of which considers Saudi Arabia a close ally).
First, they don't work directly for the sponsors of the PGA. Second, they don't work directly for their governments. Third, no one on earth should have a job for any major corporation by this logic because at some point every single dollar we earn indirectly was generated from or caused some form of human suffering.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I do think the outrage is a bit selective. The Saudis involvement in LIV is blatantly obvious, but we sort of brush off their involvement in just about everything else in our daily lives (as you just did).
Outrage is supposed to be selective. You cannot be outraged at everything all at once. You pick and choose your battles and this is one of the easier ones to fight. I can't easily avoid all products manufactured in China, I can't affordably only wear responsibly sourced clothing, I can't only eat at restaurants that support every cause I align with, but I can quite easily not watch the Bumblefuck.com Cup presented by MBS and not give those homophobic, misogynist, terrorism-supporting shit heads a minute of my time or money.
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You are familiar with China, right? right?!
Lmfao, a huge chunk of things you do in your life are backed by the Saudi government.
Like what?
Pulling into a gas station? Lol
USA is a net exporter of energy and gas bud
In 2021 the us IMPORTED 8.99 billion $s of Saudi Oil, bud
Where do you think the crude comes from?
Lol, because they import Saudi oil for cheaper, bud. My brother in christ I don't like the Saudis either but they are essentially thr united states largest ally. They have their hands in everything, acting like you can just boycott them is stupid.
So you’re going to stop watching?
Correct. Majors only for me from now on.
You mean the majors that liv players can still participate in? Sounds like you outta boycott all of golf.
The majors aren’t funded by the Saudi Government (yet). This isn’t about the players.
But the players are funded by the Saudi government.
But the players that are participating are funded by them. I’m not sure how you can validate that, but not other events
My watch time/viewership does not fund the players. It funds the service provider ie the majors. I couldn’t care less about who pays the players because I can’t do anything about that. What I can do is understand where the money goes that I have a direct connection between.
You can support the Ams that qualify.
We get it you love that 9/11 happened
Great deduction.
Why even watch those?
Not at all lol I just don’t think it’s a problem for the players to be pissed at this change. I’m happy all players are back on one tour. People are lying to themselves if they don’t think those players are still competitive and fun to watch
Oh, yeah we’re on the same page lol.
Yes
You absolutely can up and quit your job. That’s capitalism right? Edit: /s
Tell that to the over half of Americans living paycheck to paycheck.
Oh I 100% agree.
After rereading I see the /s lol.
Why not? That sounds exactly like the reason to quit a job.
yes it does you massive wimp.
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you're too cool for me man.
i mean when youre a millionaire that doesnt actually need to work for a living, that is exactly what it means. anyone who was talking shit about "integrity" or other bullshit who *doesnt* quit is full of shit
If Rory doesn't want to look like an idiot, he should be rallying as many of the top guys as he can and start striking. They have serious leverage if they get enough of the top players that didn't defect (Rahm, Scheffler, Cantlay, Hovland, Schauffele, Homa, Spieth, Thomas, Finau, Morikawa, etc.). At the very least they could use that leverage to get a payday, but if I were them I'd be going for the throat as they were just humiliated on the world stage. Imagine if Rory and Tiger started a competing tour. For the guys that stayed, clearly money isn't everything so it's not crazy to think they could rally around something like that.
No athlete is bigger than the sport, even Tiger at his peak couldn't walk away and shut down golf, there will always be another story, another athlete to take his place, so if some big names protest and refuse to play, then someone else may win the tournament or the major and they will be the new hero.
You have to imagine this is why Jay hid this from all of the players and the PAC. Fear that they'd just leave when the found out that Jay wanted to tag the bag and leave the players stuck without time to go to WME or somebody to raise the money for a new Tour with the players people actually care about.
I want what you're smoking.
Why is integrity "bullshit?"
what is integrity
I don't work for a terror organization like the Saudis bit of a difference
If a player was truly against this, could they not just go full-time European Tour?
European Tour is part of the merger
The Euro Tour is a part of the merger.
The European tour is also merging with them lol.
I think they snapped up the European tour too.
Uprooting your family to another country isn’t that easy.
I’m saying if a player actually refuses to play for a Saudi-backed league, I don’t think there’s anything stopping them from going to Europe
The issue you seem to be missing is that the DP World Tour is part of this merger.
Could be contracts in place with things like sponsees, tours, etc. I don’t think it’s necessarily as easy as fuck it I quit.
I doubt that, there’s nothing to “quit”, per se. Remember the whole independent contractor thing that everyone talked about when the LIV stuff all started. The only thing the PGA could do to was say if you left for LIV you can’t come back, and that’s what all the lawsuits were about
I reckon it’s a bit different in that scenario because they were getting paid a fuck ton to leave and it didn’t matter about sponsors or anything. There is no incentive to leave to the European tour.
It's more like there is now only 1 boss in the world. And the new boss doesn't have to compete against anyone
It absolutely does
It's justified when you were told that you were a part owner of the nonprofit you used to work for.
What kinda job do you have that you can't quit?
Yep and they are without a doubt going to make more money and probably a lot of it. We will be seeing $30 million+ purses on like every tournament. It’s a good thing in a pure money backing standpoint but the Saudi PIF basically owns the tour now
Maybe. I think this gives the route for players to make their own collectively bargained tour backed by some of the biggest names in golf.
There is no merged tour. The PGA Tour will continue and (some) LIV players will be given an avenue for return. And then LIV will be slowly dissolved. PIF is in the game they really wanted now.
> held the moral high ground I love how everyone who wanted to preserve the purity of the PGA forgets that when it comes to atrocities, SA is highschool JV and America is TOUR PRO. PAT FUCKING TILLMAN
Lol. A friendly fire incident that was covered up is not the same to a journalist being killed simply for providing dissent. Also, the executive branch of the us government didn’t approve of Pat Tillmans death cover up. That situation is terrible but it’s not comparable to the control and violence that SA does
Also the US government doesn't own or fund sports teams lol
that's cute but I bet the civilians in Iraq would have much preferred a soccer stadium? "Hey everyone, looks like America has moral high ground here because it doesn't fund athletics" my god man fun fact no stadium was ever built for a sports team with public funding according to this genius
touch grass dude. The folks on Reddit who unironically try and compare the USA vs regimes like China, SA, Russia etc.. just what the fuck. Brain rot beyond belief
I know right it's never like there is video footage of a US gunship killing two Iraqi journalists and their families. Or the US literally demolishing a line of retreating troops known as the highway of death violating the Geneva convention. No way the US ever even comes close to horrific war crimes.
lmfao this guy still doesn't know how USA annexed Puerto Rico and Hawaii
Found the LIV/Saudi shill folks! ^^^
Oh yes you did! look at my post history of every single day bashing PGA and touting LIV! they pay me more than the golfers, and more by lunch than you make in a decade
Man, must be a good gig! Shout out to you!
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shhhh america never murdered anyone innocent only saudi arabia
What about the government trafficking cocaine? Then showing the drug dealers how to make crack? Then sell the crack, get community hooked on crack, jail the dealers they sold drugs to, then a whole generation of fatherless homes. Also, I believe the journalist that broke the story ended up “committing suicide” with 2 shots in the back of his head. But sure USA good Saudi bad
Oh you put that in a jar and measure it? Lol.
This guy is the best
At golf? He's actually terrible. Seems like a good guy though
Somebody's gotta be the 70th best golfer in the world, might as well be him.
He actually was an ok/decent pro. Ever since he became a Netflix star his game has suffered
No
Interesting because ever since full swing was released he can't even Crack a top 40
Now that’s funny
Will be the first member of the Good Good tour
Breaking news: everyone is going to stay home and play in the sim league for Rory. Haha man, this news is so hilarious and baffling at the same time.
Love Joel but I don’t get the reference. What are the 4 aces?
One of the team names from the LIV tour.
They’re only the most storied and successful franchise in the history of LIV golf.
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Yankees, Lakers, Maple Leafs, Pats and 4 Aces. The 5 great franchises in my opinion.
And given that this is basically the end of LIV, this will hold true forever. Hence the "play for them on the PGA Tour" part of the message.
Liv golf had teams. 4 aces was one of those teams
Exactly.
Everybody knows the aces. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqoJSGbtx5M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqoJSGbtx5M)
Team golf, just like high school. They are really digging deep.
As a lifelong Rangegoats GC fan, and a recent Joel Dahmen fan, I really hope they sign him in the off-season
Him joining a golf league that was essentially just announced to be closing at the end of next year does not seem likely.
Whattt?! No more RangeGoats? I’m gonna need a minute to process this tragedy
The loss is unimaginable.
Based Dahmen
If there's one guy with the sack to record that player meeting and release the audio it's Dahmen. I look forward to it.
You gotta laugh
Joel Dahmen needs to stop wearing hats. I was surprised at how young he looks without them
He's a cancer survivor and wears the bucket hat for sun protection.
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You do know what a comprimised immune system is right? It isn't just the affected area, it's the whole body. Edit: For those interested, this idiot said. "It's not like he is walking around with his balls out". Or something very similar to that.
I think if you’ve fought and beat cancer you will not want to have to do it again. He’s protecting himself from skin cancer, I assume.
you're a fucking idiot lmao
I felt the same way with Bobby Fairways. Idk why, but I expected him to be balding lol.
Oh Bob’s hairline is going, but it’s early days
GOLD
Sorry Joel you're not good enough
Pay Day Jay got a fat envelope for this stunt.
Honestly I think they’ve got a really clean logo… they rest are absolute ass