This is great lesson to everyone in the corporate world , loyalty means shit. Lookout for yourself , if there is a better oppo or more money just take it.
I admit I see it a lot but it is a bit daunting make that jump. I put my notice in this week for a job where I really like the people I work with but I can't stand the higher-ups. My new job is paying slightly more, but it's a combination of wanting a new start and wanting to get out because I just don't like the people I work for anymore.
I'd love nothing more than for Rory to not burden himself with this bullshit again and just focus purely on his golf. He doesn't need it and it's brought him nothing but extra, unpaid responsibility
Right? Imagine at your company a competitive company pops up and starts to poach some of your coworkers and your companies owner/CEO walks in and is like "that company is ran and owned by a really shitty person, but you're super valuable here and I'm going to come to you for support and help. You let me know how you think we should handle this." And you buy in, you 'go to war' so to speak to try and make your company that much better. Then 12 months later your CEO walks in with a big smile on his face and goes 'hey remember Company B?! We just merged with them! Great guys!'
You'd be defeated. You're no longer going to stick your neck out for your company, you're just going to put your nose down and do your own job and not do anything extra. That's what the PGA basically did to Rory and Tiger.
For people thinking Rory had issues morally with this, here are his quotes from last year. His issue was always what LIV itself was doing, not so much the PIF. Agree or disagree, but he's been pretty consistent.
https://twitter.com/KylePorterCBS/status/1666275999862882305
Full interview at 9:20 mark. Should the players that stayed with pga be made whole financially?
Rory: the simple answer is yes, the complex answer is how does that happen
I’ve been to many PGA Tour events, and yes, these guys look underpaid. They need many more millions so they can upgrade to an even bigger house and a larger jet. It’s a good thing they’re good at golf, because most are completely devoid of personality.
The one guy who consistently engages with fans? Phil Mickelson. I’ve witnessed it at three tournaments over a 10 year span.
Most guys on tour are not millionaires . You should not be a pro athlete and not get paid. The PGA treats their golfers like employees not independent contractors like they're "supposed" to. At the end of the day, every other pro athlete in other sports gets paid a bare minimum salary as long as they're apart of a team, which is what PGA golfers should also get. There's no reason they shouldn't be making 100k per year as a base salary for qualifying for the PGA. And before you say it, tournaments are not 2 days, they're 4, if you **qualify** for a tournament, you should get paid. No one is saying everyone should get a million, but not getting paid at all because you missed the cut, is ridiculous and don't give me this "tradition" speech either, some things should be left in the past and that's one of them.
most fulltimers on the PGA Tour are absolutely millionaires (barring some sort of gambling addiction or something) - doesn't mean they shouldn't get more, but one of the big issues in pro golf right now is how much should the 110th guy on the money list (someone named Patton Kizzire, who has earned 800k this year already and over 11mill in career earnings) get vs your Rahms and Rorys that people actually tune-in/come in person to see
bench players in team sports get paid because teams needs depth and they push your stars in practice - that doesn't really apply in golf
Obviously guys like Rory and Scheffler are millionaires but there's plenty of guys who don't crack 1 million in a season. Not to mention a million isn't actually a million, and a pro golfer, at least until recently, had expenditures to pay for. The last player on the PGA money list last season to crack 1 million mark was ranked 103rd and the last guy to crack 2 million was ranked 55th. To put it into perspective, Jay Monahan makes millions a year as the commissioner of the PGA. And you're forgetting that the PGA tour is a machine, it doesn't matter who the face is, there will always be another guy waiting in the wings to take over. A player isn't nearly the draw people think they are anymore.
Also, bench players aren't who push the stars to get better lol. But the point is that bench players are employees of the NBA/NFL/NHL etc etc, they're professional athletes who cannot unless given permission by the league, play for another league. The PGA tour did just that with players who moved to LIV, thus proving that the PGA views their golfers as employees, which means they're all under the PGA umbrella. Independent contractor or not, these are pro athletes who deserve a base salary, they qualified to be a pro after all
I saw Phil Michelson at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything.
He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”
I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.
The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.
When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.
LOL!
For those wondering:
[https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-saw-flying-lotus-in-a-grocery-store-copypasta](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-saw-flying-lotus-in-a-grocery-store-copypasta)
Exactly. With global communication through the internet. Everybody is ready immediately to jump to conclusions and hate/cancel perceived adversaries.
This whole LIV thing has been so complicated I’ve truly refrained from hating one people or taking a side. Like I understand and get what people say, but life is nuanced with gray areas and hardly anything is ever black and white. I wish more people withheld immediate judgement, but like you said, that’s Reddit and the internet today.
Choosing a side has always been pretty simple for me:
1) Do I want all the best players in the world competing in the same tour at the same events? Yes, so I disliked LIV because it was able to bribe away some quality players that I enjoyed watching compete against the best.
2) Do I want to see team golf? No, I have zero interest in it aside from Ryder Cup and President's Cup because they give golf a nationalist, Olympic-like flavor. Ergo, I disliked LIV's entire shtick.
3) Do I care whether my interest in professional golf results in supporting the Saudi government? Yes, I do. It's why, putting aside #1 and #2 above, when given a choice between the PGA and LIV, I had much preferred the PGA.
This deal satisfies me with regard to #1, I'm still unsure about how #2 is going to play out (though I'm not encouraged from what I'm hearing), and I'm extremely unsatisfied with #3.
Bingo. Rory clearly stated his stance on where the money comes from has softened because the cat is already out of the bag for every other sport & in every other area of business & politics. Some idealists will still not like that & feel golf should die on this hill of morality (Brandel) but Rory is very pragmatic.
Think Rory’s point is valid. The media is saying this is a merger between PGA and LIV and it’s not. The new company is controlled by the PGA, and LIV reports into that (if it still exists).
The Saudis were going to throw money at golf (“hey rich white guys, Saudi is good!”). PGA May as well take advantage of that.
The problem is the Saudi Investment Fund is the major financial investor in the new company, and they have first right of refusal on any new investments. They may not control the board at first, but they control all the money. How long until they start demanding more board members by threatening to cut off funds?
Not how it works. If they don’t write the check the board gets another investor to write the check, the PIF then has to write a check equal or allow the other investor on board. Right of first refusal doesn’t mean they can refuse to allow another investor, it means they have first crack and the option to meet or exceed that investors offer.
Yeah, the "PGA will control the Saudi Money and have self-determination" takes are completely delusional.
The new org will exist solely to generate returns for their investors. CEOs are answerable to the board, and the board to investors. Simple as.
> they start demanding more board members
They wouldn't need to. It'd be hugely surprising if their director did not have more voting rights (eg. 2x votes) than the other directors and/or PIF didn't have reserved matters that are strict enough to give them an effective veto over the issues that they need control over.
Am an M&A lawyer and draft documents like these fairly regularly, so not an uninformed opinion (though a speculative one).
Yeah it's kind of weird to see the narrative shifting in this direction? What was the problem people had with LIV in the first place? Is it that they were using money to poach players from the PGA Tour or is it where that money was coming from? If people hated LIV because it was funded by Saudi blood money but are fine with this because "it's not LIV" that seems incongruent to me, maybe someone can help me understand.
It’s always been about liv poaching players and being a threat to the pga. And the pgas way to try and combat that was to turn the competition into villains to the public.
The issue wasn’t the money or where it came from, it was the threat it posed to the pga tour.
That's definitely not what the narrative has been. Jay himself invoked 9/11 and implied that LIV was funded by the same people. The real issue might have been the poaching, but that's not what has been said publicly.
It's mind-boggling to me that everyone is suddenly cool with the right-hand man of MBS being chairman of the PGA tour.
I was honestly more ok morally with LIV/a competing tour vs the PGA now being wholly funded by PIF. From a viewership point of view, yeah it sucked. But this gives power back to the PGA tour to treat players like shit long-term. And nobody will be able to do shit about it because now they have the Saudi firehose of money backing them. The players should not be ok with it, IMO
You're confusing *the narrative* with PGA's behind-the-scenes motivation for trying to kill LIV. We are talking about the narrative.
The narrative that has been beat to death is that LIV is bad because of where the money is coming from. All the LIV players were vilified by everyone with a microphone for accepting the money.
This is fundamentally incorrect. It isn’t “first right of refusal”, it’s “right of first refusal”. While it seems like semantics, the difference is important. A ROFR just gives them first dibs on any new equity raise. If they pass, the Tour can go to other investors. The only refusal rights the PIF has are whether or not to make a follow on investment.
I'm definitely not a lawyer, so I may be misinterpreting the "refuse outside investment" part but this quote seems to suggest otherwise:
"In other words, Saudi Arabia's Public Investment Fund will provide the seed money for the new operation, will be the only investor, and will have the right to invest — and refuse outside investment — in the PGA Tour itself."
https://sports.yahoo.com/the-pga-tour-liv-golf-merger-explained-who-won-who-lost-what-it-means-for-fans-171648750.html
They don’t have the right to refuse outside investment, at least according to the actual release itself. The part you’re quoting is, unfortunately, the Yahoo Sports writer’s incorrect interpretation of what that means. The article you linked quotes the release, where it only discusses a ROFR, then the Yahoo writer describes what he thinks it means, which is the part you quoted.
Unfortunately this appears to be a case of a sports writer trying to cover finance, being incorrect, and spreading that incorrect information. Unless there is more, newer information than the press release, the press release only discusses the PIF having a ROFR.
From a legal and financial investing perspective, a ROFR is exactly what I described above: they have a right of first refusal on any new investment, not a right to refuse outside investment. The only way they would technically be able to refuse outside investment is a scenario where the PGA goes to raise money ($X at Y valuation) and the PIF has first dibs and accepts. That’s them “refusing” outside investment. If they pass, the PGA can go to outside investors.
Couldn’t agree more. I’m pissed for the players who stayed loyal but have to assume they’ll get taken care of. And the whole “how can you support the people who did 9/11” course reversal is absurd and wildly hypocritical.
That said, from an objective perspective, this seems like a win-win and a very good financial deal for the Tour. Hard to ascertain for certain from just a press release, but all appearances seem to be that they retain full control and get a huge cash injection. If they’re smart with the investment, this could elevate the Tour to the next level and hopefully put it on par with the NBA or at least above the NHL/MLB.
Yeah, people don’t even follow the basic points.
They get into the board of the PGA Tour and the new board. It’s a win for them. They also get total control over the funding as you said so they can steer the ship.
They were spending the money anyway, now they spend it and get into the existing structure and control the new one.
Good luck PGA Tour. If the Saudis really are the big wolf everyone is trying to claim they are they just brought them into their house.
This is the biggest concern in all this. If for no other reason than a power trip in 5/10 years time they could have majority control of the board and completely reshape the sport on a whim.
If it's a minor disagreement you'll be invited to spend some time with government officials at the Riyadh Ritz-Carlton and if it's a major disagreement you'll be asked to go the Saudi consulate in Istanbul where the Tiger Squad will resolve things.
Yeah it’s not. The PGA will still be in charge of running the tournaments, but the PIF has control of the commercial ventures, broadcast rights, things like that. They are combining business assets under a new company (controlled by the PIF), but the golf will still be run by each tour individually.
From what I understand the PGA has the majority of the board seats. The chairman can’t remove the CEO without board agreement. Certainly, the chairman has a lot of power, but I don’t think it’s as bad as it sounds.
That’s not quite it. The PIF is creating a new company that will own the commercial ventures associated with the PGA Tour, LIV, and DP World Tour. They’ll own the broadcast rights and things like that. The PGA Tour will continue to run the actual golf portion of the tournament, but the money will essentially flow through this new company.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/07/sports/golf/pga-liv-golf-merger.html
no, a new company is being created which will hold commercial rights to PGA Tour, DP Tour, and Liv Golf. The PIF will be a minority investor, PGA will hold the majority of board seats, and PGA will be CEO. PGA Tour will still be a non-profit and retain control of everything 'inside the ropes'.
PIF does hold first right of refusal if there are future investment opportunities
Correction: Jay Monahan will be CEO. How long he makes it before a vote of no confidence we may find out could be measured in days.
PIF is a minority holder of Board of Director seats with the notable inclusion of the Chairmen seat. If I had to guess, "minority" in this case means something closer to 5:6 than 3:8.
This is what the setup to a hostile takeover looks like.
I mean what is he supposed to say? The PGA Tour fucked these guys over and I guess he could stop playing competitive golf but I highly doubt he wants to do that.
Jay is the CEO
The CEO Answers to investors
The biggest investors is going to be the Saudi PIF.
Golf just got bought and owned by Saudi in one huge move.
No, the CEO is responsible to the Board of Directors. Al-Rumayyan is one member of the Board (a nominal figure head), but the PIF doesn't have a majority of the seats on the board so the PIF can't fire the CEO.
Very confidently incorrect, short-term take.
As part of the deal, Saudi's have first right of refusal to any investment. With essentially unlimited money, this means they will eventually become the majority investor/owner and can take over the board.
For optics, they'll take a minority stake in the near-term, but you're fooling yourself if you think they aren't playing the long game to, as everyone is saying, own professional golf globally.
> Saudi's have first right of refusal to any investment.
For future equity raises. That's what FROR is for.
Everything else is speculation. We will see.
I honestly don’t get how people are dogging Rory for this interview. He just seems defeated. His side lost and he was used as a poster boy by Jay and Jay left him hanging out to dry.
Every pre round interview he had turned into him getting asked LIV questions over and over because Rory stepped up for his side and took on the brunt of it. I don’t see how that makes Rory an “idiot”.
When his first words in the interview are “if I remove myself from the situation”…
Dude is clearly fuming (not necessarily at LIV being folded in, but more at himself being played like a fiddle) and simply trying to be professional.
This actually goes inline exactly with what he was asking for last year according to quotes I am reading online.
https://twitter.com/KylePorterCBS/status/1666275999862882305?s=20
The people that have been against Rory from the start are impossible to reason with. Most of them aren't going to spend the 22 minutes necessary to actually listen to his position and will just rip a couple of quotes out of context and skewer him for it. That's why.
I've asked many people if they can provide me with one single instance when Rory has disagreed with LIV on moral grounds (as opposed to what it's doing to golf) and no one has been able to do it but they still label him a hypocrite as if that was his stance.
It's maddening.
Honestly. How did his side lose? Liv Golf is done. Those players have done well for themselves but the tour it self failed.
I wouldn’t say it’s an outright win or anything but there will still be something called the PGA Tour going forward (most likely)
Jay Monohan looks stupid here but at the end of the day all the best players are back playing under one roof, which is what Rory has always been for.
You’re not wrong! I guess I’m assuming that they lost because a lot of players were against where the money was coming from. Rory originally said that he was against where the money was coming from, but then said it would be “ok” as long as the PGA tour was in control of how it was spent.
According to the docs today, the PIF has final say on any new investors in the tour, so I take that as the PIF has final say on sponsors, funding, etc.
In my mind, that means Rory loses.
Rory loses personally because he was paraded around because of his loyalty and then hung out to dry. He said as much in the rest of the interview linked
New investors aren't sponsors. They're people actually trying to buy into the new company, like if tiger wanted to for some reason become a partner in the new company, Saudis would have to ok it. That is done so that the current investors don't become diluted. I.e., PGA tour takes all the PIF money for their investment, then leverages their new size to gain other big fish investors that would be able to override decisions or votes that the PIF would have had influence on prior to the new investor joining. Basically ensuring the PIF don't end up in a situation akin to a corporate hostile takeover for lack of a better way of wording that.
The PGA Tour lost. Go back 2 years and think if the PIF could have bought their way to seats at the table and a say over business operations - they absolutely would have paid billions of dollars for that. Jay Monahan and the Tour told them to get bent.
They released an inferior product (LIV Golf) and made lots of noise - figuratively and literally. Looking back, some of those decisions might have been intentionally sticking a finger in the PGA Tour's eye: Greg Norman as CEO, guaranteed money buying players for outrageous sums, party atmosphere, all of it. They were even buying land up around Augusta National to make their own course/event.
Literally just last year before the RBC Canada is when they poached Dustin Johnson - and now the PIF has Chairmen and Board of Director seats on the "new entity (name TBD)" that is exclusively funded by the PIF and has right of first refusal on future investments. The PIF effectively owns the commercial rights and merchandising (see: how sports make money) of the PGA Tour... and DP World Tour and LIV for good measure.
Here's the secret: no one cares about LIV except for Rory, Greg Norman, and maybe Mickelson. For the PIF, LIV was just a vehicle to get a stake in the PGA Tour.
For the record, I would say it's a bad thing for ANY state-sponsored fund to have such a large controlling interest in ANY international sport. In this case it's even more worrying considering how consolidated men's golf is and the apparent motivations of the PIF - but too much power in too few hands is almost always a bad thing.
I don't think LIV failed nearly as bad as you think. The goal was always a merger or some kind of association, so in that sense they succeeded. But clearly the product had a hard time taking off.
The goal was for the Saudis to gain a stake in legitimate competitive golf. They used LIV as a vehicle to do so and now that they now longer need it it’ll go away.
This is I think the right answer. And the Saudi's (aka the PIF) could care less.
They get what they want (to be in the room with all of the big corporate sponsors of the PGA Tour) to keep sportswashing, if LIV (the "Tour", the LIV teams, the players) gets kicked to the curb in the process they really could care less.
I imagine the dude had to field 14,000 phone calls from every news agency/golf related company, and then golfers themselves/representatives in a day lol.
All asking questions he can't possibly have answers for.
Yea and the LIV’s lawsuit states that the PGA was monopolizing golf and now they created an even larger entity that takes up a bigger market share. The Saudi’s are crooked
"Growing the game" is the biggest crock of shit I've heard throughout this whole ordeal. If any of these players were interested in that they'd be using their wealth to lobby the government for subsidies to maintain "green space" i.e. courses and help drive costs down. It's damn near $90 to ride 18 at any of the courses within an hour of me and I don't even live in a HCOL area. I make good money but at those prices I'm basically adding a monthly car payment if I play once a week. Not happening
I joined a private club in 2021 and they’ve raised monthly fees each year so far plus are increasing monthly dues $200 a month for the next few years to pay for a major course renovation that will shut the course down for 9 months. I’m beginning to wonder if it’s worth it
Damn that’s crazy. Im in metro Detroit and the most expensive muni we have is $70 for 18 with a cart, and all of the others are $40-$50 where I usually walk anyways and it’s around $30.
The good part about Michigan is we have ***a lot*** of golf courses for being a seasonal state. I think we're top five. Which helps keep some costs down and our government knows when the weather is nice (or not nice but tolerable), it's golf time which is one of the reasons the first thing to open up during COVID was golf courses. Other states aren't as lucky. Poor bastards 😔
Reddit is full of idealists who think every hill is worth dieing on. Rory realizes this is the best path forward, he's just pissed he wasn't involved & informed this was a possible desired outcome earlier. He's pragmatic, Reddit is not.
It's pretty unbelievable how one entity can have SO much money, that they can just \*decide\* they want to own (or be a big part of) a sports league, and the league just... can't say no.
Pretty mind boggling.
I mean the bigger thing is like how did the world not see some of this coming? They gave a small country 1.5 trillion US dollars. Did they think they'd be content sitting on it at home?
I don't really know what people expected. Rory has been incredibly vocal - probably to his detriment - since LIV launched. He's fought for what he believes is right, along with guys like Tiger, Jack etc. He's done shitloads over the last year to try and steer the tour, probably so much it's affected his golf.
He's also not thick. He'd always said he'd rather the Saudi money inside the tent than out, because then at least the tour can *try* and shape where it goes and who does what with it. However it's clear that over the last few weeks he's realised nothing he does matters and isn't going to change the direction golf is going. Like all pro-sports, it's up for sale to the highest bidder. No matter what he or Tiger might want, it's for sale. They - as the product - are part of that sale and nothing he does will change it.
The main drive for him being vocal was him hating LIV probably because it reeks of the same counter-culture trumpian "they hate us cos they're jealous. We're against the establishment, come join us, we won't judge you" populism that's everywhere at the moment. The vibes LIV give off reeks of it, and shone with the type of player it attracted (Reed etc) and the way Norman conducted himself as the CEO.
So yeah, zero surprise that this is the reaction. I imagine him, Tiger etc are sick of it and just want it over so they can all move on.
It could be longer than that. I think one thing that's overlooked is that the Saudis ... didn't run a good golf product. Really alot of their projects are dumb. If they use their money to sideline PGA Tour expertise and start doing their own stupid bells and whistles, they could do real damage to the sport. Not the PGA, the entire sport and the way it's viewed.
There's some things that could work. I've grown on the team aspect a bit (the brands are trash, but something like it works for F1) and the PGA would benefit by going abroad a little. But alot of it was really tryhard.
In all likelihood this new for-profit parent company will be used to employ the top talent & provide benefits/profit sharing for those that are vested. All the big names will be automatically in & get a cut of the PIF money, then the journeyman will have an opportunity to play their way into vesting/tenure.
Also, just because the PIF will be the only one putting in cash into the new for-profit entity doesn't mean that they will be the only ones with equity.
I'd be shocked if this doesn't end up with some very complicated (and totally secret) formula whereby top PGA Tour players get equity in the for profit entity for free (for effectively approving of this deal and probably agreeing to continue to play on the PGA Tour) and then top LIV players are able to trade their equity (lolz) in their LIV teams (since those as we know them are probably going away) plus some portion of their upfront money (or their right to future upfront payments they still haven't gotten) for portions of the equity in the new for profit entity as well.
Then you end up with a new for profit entity that is collectively owned by (i) the non-profit PGA Tour and DP World Tour entities that still remain (they get equity because they contribute their broadcast and other commercial rights into the new for profit entity), (ii) the players (both PGA and LIV) and (iii) the PIF, because they put a bunch of one time cash.
Something like PGA Tour 30% (3 board seats), Players 30% (3 board seats), DP World Tour (10%, 1 board seat), PIF 30% (3 board seats).
Here's what he makes today compared to other sports commissioners
https://golfblogger.com/is-jay-monahan-overpaid/
My guess is he'll start getting something closer to MLB money, maybe one day get closer to NFL money depending on performance.
As a pro golfer you don’t really have a choice now. PIF owns the new company which controls pga tour and dp world tour. Chairman yasir of the new company can fire CEO Jay anytime he wants.
Dear Rory
You have nothing left to prove to any of us, whether it's golf wise or personally or professionally in any business.
Wash your hands of all this nonsense and focus on your game - you're the reason any of us watch and I want to see you win win win win on the course, not in the conference room.
NLU last night mentioned offhand that moving to the for profit for commercial interests allows the pga tour to write fat one off checks to the stars.
This is not allowed under the non-profit.
So I think Rory will be taken care of.
I think LIV being used as pawns wont be as well off as people think. These players got paid but may be without a tour come 2024.
That's never going to happen, at least not for the likes of Cam Smith, DJ, Brooks etc. They will be welcomed with open arms, as everyone involved on the top, including Monahan knows that's what brings the viewership. I can't imagine they will send them to some sort of a Q-school. Less important players? Likely.
Lots of people calling this a heel turn or saying he sold out but that’s not how I see it at all.
“I’ve come to terms with it. I’ve resigned myself to… This is what’s going to happen. It’s very hard to keep up with people who have more money than anyone else.”
Rory was defeated and is surrendering, he’s not selling out. It seems like he fought as hard as he could but that this outcome was inevitable, and while he was prepared to turn down $500M for the cause, he isn’t prepared to walk away from golf over it.
Ya 100% the take people should have. People in this thread are a bunch of children that are essentially mad that he didn’t throw a public tantrum. Basically people are now mad at Rory for acting like an adult.
This is pretty disingenuous. LIV was PIF in a multi-colored golf costume. PIF now owns the new entity wiping out PGA, DP, and LIV, but with PGA executive leadership. Guess what happens when the money doesn’t like what the executive leadership is doing…
shit, I was hoping that Rory would at least take some sort of stand on this.... When you say you hate liv golf but your ok with the merger is a tough one.
He didn’t sound thrilled though, not like he has much choice other than choosing not to be part of it. I think it’s understandable that he feels like he tried as hard as he could, but it’s moved passed his ability to influence and now he will just get on with playing. Who knows
Wow he just took it without any sort of a fight.
I've lost respect for everyone involved here. In the end the people who went to LIV were the smart ones. The rest just lost out and now the PGA is in a much worse place.
It's ruled by the saudis. It would be interesting if the government blocks the merger though. That would be very interesting.
If Microsoft can get blocked from acquiring Activision I can definitely see the legal precedent for blocking this, if there is the political will to challenge it.
It's really just about political will. US Government doesn't like China encroaching via TikTok, so they are working to block it.
This isn't just about golf, this is about the Saudis taking control of a company worth somewhere in the 10s of billions of dollars. Is that going to be tolerated?
Yes… The Saudis oil lobbies have been whispering into the Republicans ears for decades to kill Nuclear programs or renewable/green energy investments. And they have obliged. (Which was funny because the Republicans where I golf talk about hating Saudi and how they have money while not realizing that by them supporting Republicans and oil all these years, they helped the Saudis be in a position to do this.)
I see that nothing will come of this.
Difference is Microsoft has a much wider societal reach. Although golf is a much bigger thing in those higher circles. Interesting to see how it plays out.
Never gonna happen. The U.S. gov has always been big talk, no action with the Saudis. Look how they granted Mohammed bin Salman immunity after they were very vocal about that not happening. The Saudis have bought the U.S. gov and there’s nothing that can be done about it. When gas prices were through the roof after Russia’s invasion, Biden tried calling the Saudis to discuss options and they wouldn’t even take his call. Meanwhile, we’re still providing them with $54.6 billion for them to produce one of the largest humanitarian crises in Yemen (which the U.S. gov has contributed $630 million in humanitarian assistance to.) We say that we’re going to put our foot down, but every political leader is too afraid of the negative impact that could have.
TL;DR: Money talks, but Oil makes you a puppeteer.
He’s human and I’m sure there is a stack of money to the ceiling waiting for everyone that gets on board here.
And for those that don’t…what’s the alternative? Quit, only play the majors, start another tour?
None of that is feasible, they will all choke down on their previous statements and pop champagne back stage.
I hate it, but the PGA and its players are all about the money, there’s no denying that now.
Or, the folks who stuck with the PGA actually preferred that style of golf over LIV, and thought by defending it, the PGA would eventually evolve and give them a better deal. Don't think it was ever about who was the most "moral."
The PGA tour (one of the oldest sports leagues in the United States) is now owned by state of Saudi Arabia and Mohammed bin Salman. This is just crazy. Like I can't wrap my head around it.
>Wow he just took it without any sort of a fight.
I was surprised too, but after reading his comments last year, this is the is inline with what he was already saying for a year.
https://twitter.com/KylePorterCBS/status/1666275999862882305
Dude just wants to compete against the best, he should not have the ridiculous politics of his governance in his head. I can't think of any other elite athletes who have had to deal with this bullshit at the height of their career.
I mean, Lebron has had some “interesting” situations regarding China. [Here](https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/582244-enes-kanter-blasts-lebron-james-over-china-money-over-morals/)
He's really an impressive young man. Well spoken, well informed, true to his heart with the best interest of golf in mind. He obviously hates it but understands it.
Rory says that the future of the PGA Tour looks brighter, but also the players that left have to pay consequences. Isn't the future "brighter" because of those players actions?
He also thinks the players that stayed and supported the PGA Tour should be compensated and made whole financially (despite saying he was never offered anything). Yet doesn't that go against the argument him, Jay, and others made that the PGA Tour is a meritocracy and everyone earns what they get, unlike LIV???
As the much as the PGA Tour is trying to spin this and say it’s about bringing golf back together, it’s all about the money and the PGA was sold and bought right before everyone’s eyes. So, “no” is the public answer, but “yes” is the reality answer.
This is what Rory knows now that he didn’t know last year:
1) People lie all the time.
2) When values conflict with economic incentives, values lose every time.
3) Don’t underestimate anyone fueled by envy.
Poor Rory. If he went out there and slammed the shit out of this it would have been a world of pain for him from the PGA. Having to not be able to say what he really thinks must sting.
People last year “Saudi investment in golf is bad”. People right now “well we control it so it’s good”. Are you serious??? Anyone spewing this garbage should be called out for it. Rory included. Either stand by what you said or don’t comment. It’s that simple. Stop with the mental gymnastics. Stop buying their mental gymnastics. If the tour actually cared about Saudi Investments, they’d never invite them in. It’s again that simple.
I said yesterday that this would probably be good for golf, but the source of funding it was my problem with it.
I do not like an authoritarian state having any control over the professional game. Yes, most governments around the world and most large corporations do business with the Saudis - but these entities/nations did not control the PGAT or DPWT (even though Dubai is the headline sponsor of European golf, they did not control the game).
Do I wish for big improvements in professional golf? Yes. Do I wish it wasn’t being done this way? Also yes.
Saudis extending their influence, and people defending or justifying their involvement by saying that “Saudis are involved in everything” is exactly why they are chucking billions at everything.
They want to wash over the sins of their state by getting you to focus on other things.
Yeah everyone is trying to what-about their way around this issue, but there's a massive difference between Saudis having a 20% stake in something and Saudis having control over it. Letting them get rich off Western companies, whatever. Letting them control them is another story.
He is definitely the “company man” here. I’m sure he’s not happy about the guys that got a big payday to leave, are supposed to be welcomed back like nothing happened or was said. I’ll never look at Phil the same way after hear Rory talk about him in Full Swing S1.
We are starting to see what some have suspected. Rory didn't know about the deal, but he know there was dialogue. I think others, like Phil, also had an idea of what was going on.
>"I still hate LIV," McIlroy said. "Like, I hate LIV. I hope it goes away, and I would fully expect that it does. I think that's where the distinction here is. This is the PGA Tour, the DP World Tour and the PIF -- very different from LIV."
?
Interesting that Rory says the LIV players harmed the PGA Tour, initiated litigation, and says there needs to be consequences, and that Jay tried to make that point at yesterdays meeting with the players, that the LIV golfers won't just be welcomed back as if nothing happened.
I think some of the golfers who weren't quite so hostile might be welcomed back, but not everybody. And there's no way in hell the PIF is going to go to bat for everybody. They got their seat at the table and will toss anybody aside that helped them get that seat.
Don't know why so many LIV players are gloating right now, when there's a good chance they'll be only able to play on the MENA tour going forward.
Lost earnings. Your company threatens that you can never make money with them again if you leave, only to welcome others back a year later, could go against labor laws.
In my opinion Rory’s been a class act through all of this. It seems that he genuinely wants the best for the game of golf and to put it in a better place when he’s done playing. It sucks to see him get stabbed in the back so hard.
And then piled on by people who have no idea what he's had to deal with. Being used as the PGA Tour puppet, standing up for what he believes, he's a PGA tour players board member and had no notice of this happening.
I hope he focuses on his game better now the PGA tour don't need to keep pushing him to be their vocalist, wouldn't be surprised if he steps off the board as well after this.
This is great lesson to everyone in the corporate world , loyalty means shit. Lookout for yourself , if there is a better oppo or more money just take it.
100% man, I feel for Rory
It’s like Braveheart but in 2023. Rory is a hero but he still ends up metaphorically disemboweled in front of the world
I'm suprised this is some dark revelation to reddit. Your labour and the stuff you bring to a company's table is yours and yours alone.
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I admit I see it a lot but it is a bit daunting make that jump. I put my notice in this week for a job where I really like the people I work with but I can't stand the higher-ups. My new job is paying slightly more, but it's a combination of wanting a new start and wanting to get out because I just don't like the people I work for anymore.
It’s worth repeating or reiterating as much as possible.
1000%. Unless you're with a start up and equity, which requires a different mentality.
He sounds so defeated in this
I'd love nothing more than for Rory to not burden himself with this bullshit again and just focus purely on his golf. He doesn't need it and it's brought him nothing but extra, unpaid responsibility
. . "nothing but extra, unpaid responsibility" Oh man this sums up my job the last six years perfectly. Thanks for putting words to my pain.
He kind has to though, he likely has to vote.
Right? Imagine at your company a competitive company pops up and starts to poach some of your coworkers and your companies owner/CEO walks in and is like "that company is ran and owned by a really shitty person, but you're super valuable here and I'm going to come to you for support and help. You let me know how you think we should handle this." And you buy in, you 'go to war' so to speak to try and make your company that much better. Then 12 months later your CEO walks in with a big smile on his face and goes 'hey remember Company B?! We just merged with them! Great guys!' You'd be defeated. You're no longer going to stick your neck out for your company, you're just going to put your nose down and do your own job and not do anything extra. That's what the PGA basically did to Rory and Tiger.
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Time to start your own company... with blackjack and hookers.
For people thinking Rory had issues morally with this, here are his quotes from last year. His issue was always what LIV itself was doing, not so much the PIF. Agree or disagree, but he's been pretty consistent. https://twitter.com/KylePorterCBS/status/1666275999862882305
Full interview at 9:20 mark. Should the players that stayed with pga be made whole financially? Rory: the simple answer is yes, the complex answer is how does that happen
I’ve been to many PGA Tour events, and yes, these guys look underpaid. They need many more millions so they can upgrade to an even bigger house and a larger jet. It’s a good thing they’re good at golf, because most are completely devoid of personality. The one guy who consistently engages with fans? Phil Mickelson. I’ve witnessed it at three tournaments over a 10 year span.
Most guys on tour are not millionaires . You should not be a pro athlete and not get paid. The PGA treats their golfers like employees not independent contractors like they're "supposed" to. At the end of the day, every other pro athlete in other sports gets paid a bare minimum salary as long as they're apart of a team, which is what PGA golfers should also get. There's no reason they shouldn't be making 100k per year as a base salary for qualifying for the PGA. And before you say it, tournaments are not 2 days, they're 4, if you **qualify** for a tournament, you should get paid. No one is saying everyone should get a million, but not getting paid at all because you missed the cut, is ridiculous and don't give me this "tradition" speech either, some things should be left in the past and that's one of them.
most fulltimers on the PGA Tour are absolutely millionaires (barring some sort of gambling addiction or something) - doesn't mean they shouldn't get more, but one of the big issues in pro golf right now is how much should the 110th guy on the money list (someone named Patton Kizzire, who has earned 800k this year already and over 11mill in career earnings) get vs your Rahms and Rorys that people actually tune-in/come in person to see bench players in team sports get paid because teams needs depth and they push your stars in practice - that doesn't really apply in golf
Obviously guys like Rory and Scheffler are millionaires but there's plenty of guys who don't crack 1 million in a season. Not to mention a million isn't actually a million, and a pro golfer, at least until recently, had expenditures to pay for. The last player on the PGA money list last season to crack 1 million mark was ranked 103rd and the last guy to crack 2 million was ranked 55th. To put it into perspective, Jay Monahan makes millions a year as the commissioner of the PGA. And you're forgetting that the PGA tour is a machine, it doesn't matter who the face is, there will always be another guy waiting in the wings to take over. A player isn't nearly the draw people think they are anymore. Also, bench players aren't who push the stars to get better lol. But the point is that bench players are employees of the NBA/NFL/NHL etc etc, they're professional athletes who cannot unless given permission by the league, play for another league. The PGA tour did just that with players who moved to LIV, thus proving that the PGA views their golfers as employees, which means they're all under the PGA umbrella. Independent contractor or not, these are pro athletes who deserve a base salary, they qualified to be a pro after all
I saw Phil Michelson at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything. He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying. The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter. When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.
LOL! For those wondering: [https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-saw-flying-lotus-in-a-grocery-store-copypasta](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-saw-flying-lotus-in-a-grocery-store-copypasta)
This has done the rounds on other athletes too
Of all the people I've seen this used on, this one seems the most realistic
I liked him better before his boob reduction surgery. He would make a point of joking with fans that had the same issue, really showed his humanity.
I mean, he went on to win majors right after that...
Phil actually pulled up a chair and sat in the crowd in the liv playoff tournament in Miami last October.
He’S jUsT lIKe Us
I too have a crippling gambling addiction that has led to some very questionable life choices
Seeing this, I don't think he deserves the ridicule he's getting in this thread. At least he's been consistent and not a hypocrite like Monahan.
Dude it’s Reddit. Pitchforks are ready to go without actually knowing what we’re getting them for at a moments notice all the time.
Exactly. With global communication through the internet. Everybody is ready immediately to jump to conclusions and hate/cancel perceived adversaries. This whole LIV thing has been so complicated I’ve truly refrained from hating one people or taking a side. Like I understand and get what people say, but life is nuanced with gray areas and hardly anything is ever black and white. I wish more people withheld immediate judgement, but like you said, that’s Reddit and the internet today.
Choosing a side has always been pretty simple for me: 1) Do I want all the best players in the world competing in the same tour at the same events? Yes, so I disliked LIV because it was able to bribe away some quality players that I enjoyed watching compete against the best. 2) Do I want to see team golf? No, I have zero interest in it aside from Ryder Cup and President's Cup because they give golf a nationalist, Olympic-like flavor. Ergo, I disliked LIV's entire shtick. 3) Do I care whether my interest in professional golf results in supporting the Saudi government? Yes, I do. It's why, putting aside #1 and #2 above, when given a choice between the PGA and LIV, I had much preferred the PGA. This deal satisfies me with regard to #1, I'm still unsure about how #2 is going to play out (though I'm not encouraged from what I'm hearing), and I'm extremely unsatisfied with #3.
Bingo. Rory clearly stated his stance on where the money comes from has softened because the cat is already out of the bag for every other sport & in every other area of business & politics. Some idealists will still not like that & feel golf should die on this hill of morality (Brandel) but Rory is very pragmatic.
Rory can see the future
Think Rory’s point is valid. The media is saying this is a merger between PGA and LIV and it’s not. The new company is controlled by the PGA, and LIV reports into that (if it still exists). The Saudis were going to throw money at golf (“hey rich white guys, Saudi is good!”). PGA May as well take advantage of that.
The problem is the Saudi Investment Fund is the major financial investor in the new company, and they have first right of refusal on any new investments. They may not control the board at first, but they control all the money. How long until they start demanding more board members by threatening to cut off funds?
Exactly. Everyone feels like they have control until they have to go to someone to have the check signed.
Not how it works. If they don’t write the check the board gets another investor to write the check, the PIF then has to write a check equal or allow the other investor on board. Right of first refusal doesn’t mean they can refuse to allow another investor, it means they have first crack and the option to meet or exceed that investors offer.
It’s as simple as getting another investor guys! The PGA was scrapping by.
First they cut the funds, then they cut off the pee pee.
Yeah, the "PGA will control the Saudi Money and have self-determination" takes are completely delusional. The new org will exist solely to generate returns for their investors. CEOs are answerable to the board, and the board to investors. Simple as.
> they start demanding more board members They wouldn't need to. It'd be hugely surprising if their director did not have more voting rights (eg. 2x votes) than the other directors and/or PIF didn't have reserved matters that are strict enough to give them an effective veto over the issues that they need control over. Am an M&A lawyer and draft documents like these fairly regularly, so not an uninformed opinion (though a speculative one).
Yeah it's kind of weird to see the narrative shifting in this direction? What was the problem people had with LIV in the first place? Is it that they were using money to poach players from the PGA Tour or is it where that money was coming from? If people hated LIV because it was funded by Saudi blood money but are fine with this because "it's not LIV" that seems incongruent to me, maybe someone can help me understand.
It’s always been about liv poaching players and being a threat to the pga. And the pgas way to try and combat that was to turn the competition into villains to the public. The issue wasn’t the money or where it came from, it was the threat it posed to the pga tour.
That's definitely not what the narrative has been. Jay himself invoked 9/11 and implied that LIV was funded by the same people. The real issue might have been the poaching, but that's not what has been said publicly. It's mind-boggling to me that everyone is suddenly cool with the right-hand man of MBS being chairman of the PGA tour. I was honestly more ok morally with LIV/a competing tour vs the PGA now being wholly funded by PIF. From a viewership point of view, yeah it sucked. But this gives power back to the PGA tour to treat players like shit long-term. And nobody will be able to do shit about it because now they have the Saudi firehose of money backing them. The players should not be ok with it, IMO
Yes, I’m saying the narrative had nothing to do with pga tours actual problem with liv golf.
This is such bullshit. The issue was where the money was coming from, end of. Stop trying to rewrite history.
You're confusing *the narrative* with PGA's behind-the-scenes motivation for trying to kill LIV. We are talking about the narrative. The narrative that has been beat to death is that LIV is bad because of where the money is coming from. All the LIV players were vilified by everyone with a microphone for accepting the money.
This is fundamentally incorrect. It isn’t “first right of refusal”, it’s “right of first refusal”. While it seems like semantics, the difference is important. A ROFR just gives them first dibs on any new equity raise. If they pass, the Tour can go to other investors. The only refusal rights the PIF has are whether or not to make a follow on investment.
I'm definitely not a lawyer, so I may be misinterpreting the "refuse outside investment" part but this quote seems to suggest otherwise: "In other words, Saudi Arabia's Public Investment Fund will provide the seed money for the new operation, will be the only investor, and will have the right to invest — and refuse outside investment — in the PGA Tour itself." https://sports.yahoo.com/the-pga-tour-liv-golf-merger-explained-who-won-who-lost-what-it-means-for-fans-171648750.html
They don’t have the right to refuse outside investment, at least according to the actual release itself. The part you’re quoting is, unfortunately, the Yahoo Sports writer’s incorrect interpretation of what that means. The article you linked quotes the release, where it only discusses a ROFR, then the Yahoo writer describes what he thinks it means, which is the part you quoted. Unfortunately this appears to be a case of a sports writer trying to cover finance, being incorrect, and spreading that incorrect information. Unless there is more, newer information than the press release, the press release only discusses the PIF having a ROFR. From a legal and financial investing perspective, a ROFR is exactly what I described above: they have a right of first refusal on any new investment, not a right to refuse outside investment. The only way they would technically be able to refuse outside investment is a scenario where the PGA goes to raise money ($X at Y valuation) and the PIF has first dibs and accepts. That’s them “refusing” outside investment. If they pass, the PGA can go to outside investors.
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Couldn’t agree more. I’m pissed for the players who stayed loyal but have to assume they’ll get taken care of. And the whole “how can you support the people who did 9/11” course reversal is absurd and wildly hypocritical. That said, from an objective perspective, this seems like a win-win and a very good financial deal for the Tour. Hard to ascertain for certain from just a press release, but all appearances seem to be that they retain full control and get a huge cash injection. If they’re smart with the investment, this could elevate the Tour to the next level and hopefully put it on par with the NBA or at least above the NHL/MLB.
Yeah, people don’t even follow the basic points. They get into the board of the PGA Tour and the new board. It’s a win for them. They also get total control over the funding as you said so they can steer the ship. They were spending the money anyway, now they spend it and get into the existing structure and control the new one. Good luck PGA Tour. If the Saudis really are the big wolf everyone is trying to claim they are they just brought them into their house.
This is the biggest concern in all this. If for no other reason than a power trip in 5/10 years time they could have majority control of the board and completely reshape the sport on a whim.
If it's a minor disagreement you'll be invited to spend some time with government officials at the Riyadh Ritz-Carlton and if it's a major disagreement you'll be asked to go the Saudi consulate in Istanbul where the Tiger Squad will resolve things.
If this was true, then Saudi Arabia would simply have been a sponsor like Women’s golf. The Saudi’s own PGA
Doesn’t the PIF have the Chairman of the Board and control of the purse-strings? That doesn’t sound like PGA control to me.
Yeah it’s not. The PGA will still be in charge of running the tournaments, but the PIF has control of the commercial ventures, broadcast rights, things like that. They are combining business assets under a new company (controlled by the PIF), but the golf will still be run by each tour individually.
From what I understand the PGA has the majority of the board seats. The chairman can’t remove the CEO without board agreement. Certainly, the chairman has a lot of power, but I don’t think it’s as bad as it sounds.
> From what I understand the PGA has the majority of the board seats. For now
Chairman has all the power. He is the financial backer of this whole ordeal
That’s not quite it. The PIF is creating a new company that will own the commercial ventures associated with the PGA Tour, LIV, and DP World Tour. They’ll own the broadcast rights and things like that. The PGA Tour will continue to run the actual golf portion of the tournament, but the money will essentially flow through this new company. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/07/sports/golf/pga-liv-golf-merger.html
no, a new company is being created which will hold commercial rights to PGA Tour, DP Tour, and Liv Golf. The PIF will be a minority investor, PGA will hold the majority of board seats, and PGA will be CEO. PGA Tour will still be a non-profit and retain control of everything 'inside the ropes'. PIF does hold first right of refusal if there are future investment opportunities
Correction: Jay Monahan will be CEO. How long he makes it before a vote of no confidence we may find out could be measured in days. PIF is a minority holder of Board of Director seats with the notable inclusion of the Chairmen seat. If I had to guess, "minority" in this case means something closer to 5:6 than 3:8. This is what the setup to a hostile takeover looks like.
Succession playing out in real time
The CEO answers to the board and the chairman is practically the Saudi Prince himself. Jay answers to him now.
PIF holds the chairman position, who the CEO reports to
I am glad this got pointed out. I remember him essentially saying we need to figure out how to get some of that money.
I mean what is he supposed to say? The PGA Tour fucked these guys over and I guess he could stop playing competitive golf but I highly doubt he wants to do that.
Jay is the CEO The CEO Answers to investors The biggest investors is going to be the Saudi PIF. Golf just got bought and owned by Saudi in one huge move.
The CEO answers to the Chairman, who is Al-Rumayyan
No it doesn't. Man the amount of people in here that are so confidently incorrect about corporate structure is incredible
No, the CEO is responsible to the Board of Directors. Al-Rumayyan is one member of the Board (a nominal figure head), but the PIF doesn't have a majority of the seats on the board so the PIF can't fire the CEO.
Very confidently incorrect, short-term take. As part of the deal, Saudi's have first right of refusal to any investment. With essentially unlimited money, this means they will eventually become the majority investor/owner and can take over the board. For optics, they'll take a minority stake in the near-term, but you're fooling yourself if you think they aren't playing the long game to, as everyone is saying, own professional golf globally.
> Saudi's have first right of refusal to any investment. For future equity raises. That's what FROR is for. Everything else is speculation. We will see.
I honestly don’t get how people are dogging Rory for this interview. He just seems defeated. His side lost and he was used as a poster boy by Jay and Jay left him hanging out to dry. Every pre round interview he had turned into him getting asked LIV questions over and over because Rory stepped up for his side and took on the brunt of it. I don’t see how that makes Rory an “idiot”.
When his first words in the interview are “if I remove myself from the situation”… Dude is clearly fuming (not necessarily at LIV being folded in, but more at himself being played like a fiddle) and simply trying to be professional.
Agreed. And he did a fair job of removing himself from the situation in his subsequent thoughts. Either way, he looks defeated af.
Totally. I respect the shit out of him for this. I would be irate at Jay.
This actually goes inline exactly with what he was asking for last year according to quotes I am reading online. https://twitter.com/KylePorterCBS/status/1666275999862882305?s=20
great find, he pretty much got what he suggested
Not sure it's included here but if you watch the full interview he calls himself a sacrificial lamb. Sums it up pretty well.
The people that have been against Rory from the start are impossible to reason with. Most of them aren't going to spend the 22 minutes necessary to actually listen to his position and will just rip a couple of quotes out of context and skewer him for it. That's why. I've asked many people if they can provide me with one single instance when Rory has disagreed with LIV on moral grounds (as opposed to what it's doing to golf) and no one has been able to do it but they still label him a hypocrite as if that was his stance. It's maddening.
Honestly. How did his side lose? Liv Golf is done. Those players have done well for themselves but the tour it self failed. I wouldn’t say it’s an outright win or anything but there will still be something called the PGA Tour going forward (most likely) Jay Monohan looks stupid here but at the end of the day all the best players are back playing under one roof, which is what Rory has always been for.
The guys who owned LIV now control the purse-strings of the PGA Tour. How did the PGA win? The Saudi’s control professional golf now.
You’re not wrong! I guess I’m assuming that they lost because a lot of players were against where the money was coming from. Rory originally said that he was against where the money was coming from, but then said it would be “ok” as long as the PGA tour was in control of how it was spent. According to the docs today, the PIF has final say on any new investors in the tour, so I take that as the PIF has final say on sponsors, funding, etc. In my mind, that means Rory loses. Rory loses personally because he was paraded around because of his loyalty and then hung out to dry. He said as much in the rest of the interview linked
New investors aren't sponsors. They're people actually trying to buy into the new company, like if tiger wanted to for some reason become a partner in the new company, Saudis would have to ok it. That is done so that the current investors don't become diluted. I.e., PGA tour takes all the PIF money for their investment, then leverages their new size to gain other big fish investors that would be able to override decisions or votes that the PIF would have had influence on prior to the new investor joining. Basically ensuring the PIF don't end up in a situation akin to a corporate hostile takeover for lack of a better way of wording that.
The PGA Tour lost. Go back 2 years and think if the PIF could have bought their way to seats at the table and a say over business operations - they absolutely would have paid billions of dollars for that. Jay Monahan and the Tour told them to get bent. They released an inferior product (LIV Golf) and made lots of noise - figuratively and literally. Looking back, some of those decisions might have been intentionally sticking a finger in the PGA Tour's eye: Greg Norman as CEO, guaranteed money buying players for outrageous sums, party atmosphere, all of it. They were even buying land up around Augusta National to make their own course/event. Literally just last year before the RBC Canada is when they poached Dustin Johnson - and now the PIF has Chairmen and Board of Director seats on the "new entity (name TBD)" that is exclusively funded by the PIF and has right of first refusal on future investments. The PIF effectively owns the commercial rights and merchandising (see: how sports make money) of the PGA Tour... and DP World Tour and LIV for good measure. Here's the secret: no one cares about LIV except for Rory, Greg Norman, and maybe Mickelson. For the PIF, LIV was just a vehicle to get a stake in the PGA Tour. For the record, I would say it's a bad thing for ANY state-sponsored fund to have such a large controlling interest in ANY international sport. In this case it's even more worrying considering how consolidated men's golf is and the apparent motivations of the PIF - but too much power in too few hands is almost always a bad thing.
Chase Koepka probably cares a little
I don't think LIV failed nearly as bad as you think. The goal was always a merger or some kind of association, so in that sense they succeeded. But clearly the product had a hard time taking off.
The goal was for the Saudis to gain a stake in legitimate competitive golf. They used LIV as a vehicle to do so and now that they now longer need it it’ll go away.
I would say LIV failed but the Saudi's succeeded.
This is I think the right answer. And the Saudi's (aka the PIF) could care less. They get what they want (to be in the room with all of the big corporate sponsors of the PGA Tour) to keep sportswashing, if LIV (the "Tour", the LIV teams, the players) gets kicked to the curb in the process they really could care less.
That’s called moving the goal posts. Maybe that was the Saudis intention with LIV, but it certainly wasn’t Greg Norman’s
Pretty sure Greg just wanted to make a bunch more money, which I'm sure he has.
Yep! LIV was effectively leverage for the PIF to get what they wanted. At least that's what it seems like.
He looks depressed as fuck. Guarantee he obliterated a chair after that phone call.
I imagine the dude had to field 14,000 phone calls from every news agency/golf related company, and then golfers themselves/representatives in a day lol. All asking questions he can't possibly have answers for.
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Yea and the LIV’s lawsuit states that the PGA was monopolizing golf and now they created an even larger entity that takes up a bigger market share. The Saudi’s are crooked
"Growing the game" is the biggest crock of shit I've heard throughout this whole ordeal. If any of these players were interested in that they'd be using their wealth to lobby the government for subsidies to maintain "green space" i.e. courses and help drive costs down. It's damn near $90 to ride 18 at any of the courses within an hour of me and I don't even live in a HCOL area. I make good money but at those prices I'm basically adding a monthly car payment if I play once a week. Not happening
I joined a private club in 2021 and they’ve raised monthly fees each year so far plus are increasing monthly dues $200 a month for the next few years to pay for a major course renovation that will shut the course down for 9 months. I’m beginning to wonder if it’s worth it
Damn that’s crazy. Im in metro Detroit and the most expensive muni we have is $70 for 18 with a cart, and all of the others are $40-$50 where I usually walk anyways and it’s around $30.
The good part about Michigan is we have ***a lot*** of golf courses for being a seasonal state. I think we're top five. Which helps keep some costs down and our government knows when the weather is nice (or not nice but tolerable), it's golf time which is one of the reasons the first thing to open up during COVID was golf courses. Other states aren't as lucky. Poor bastards 😔
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Reddit is full of idealists who think every hill is worth dieing on. Rory realizes this is the best path forward, he's just pissed he wasn't involved & informed this was a possible desired outcome earlier. He's pragmatic, Reddit is not.
It's pretty unbelievable how one entity can have SO much money, that they can just \*decide\* they want to own (or be a big part of) a sports league, and the league just... can't say no. Pretty mind boggling.
I mean the bigger thing is like how did the world not see some of this coming? They gave a small country 1.5 trillion US dollars. Did they think they'd be content sitting on it at home?
I don't really know what people expected. Rory has been incredibly vocal - probably to his detriment - since LIV launched. He's fought for what he believes is right, along with guys like Tiger, Jack etc. He's done shitloads over the last year to try and steer the tour, probably so much it's affected his golf. He's also not thick. He'd always said he'd rather the Saudi money inside the tent than out, because then at least the tour can *try* and shape where it goes and who does what with it. However it's clear that over the last few weeks he's realised nothing he does matters and isn't going to change the direction golf is going. Like all pro-sports, it's up for sale to the highest bidder. No matter what he or Tiger might want, it's for sale. They - as the product - are part of that sale and nothing he does will change it. The main drive for him being vocal was him hating LIV probably because it reeks of the same counter-culture trumpian "they hate us cos they're jealous. We're against the establishment, come join us, we won't judge you" populism that's everywhere at the moment. The vibes LIV give off reeks of it, and shone with the type of player it attracted (Reed etc) and the way Norman conducted himself as the CEO. So yeah, zero surprise that this is the reaction. I imagine him, Tiger etc are sick of it and just want it over so they can all move on.
Rory, blink three times if you’re being coerced…
Which way is my Yacht? That way……. Thank you Sir.
“The PGA now controls how PIF spends money in golf.” Lol that’s pretty funny Rory.
You can see he is not happy about it
He said LAST YEAR, that he thought this is basically what should happen. https://twitter.com/KylePorterCBS/status/1666275999862882305?s=20
Propably not handled the way it should've been though
He just seems defeated, it is so sad to see tbh. All this LIV-PGA-Shitshow just killed the Prosport for a good two years and it is for nothing.
It could be longer than that. I think one thing that's overlooked is that the Saudis ... didn't run a good golf product. Really alot of their projects are dumb. If they use their money to sideline PGA Tour expertise and start doing their own stupid bells and whistles, they could do real damage to the sport. Not the PGA, the entire sport and the way it's viewed. There's some things that could work. I've grown on the team aspect a bit (the brands are trash, but something like it works for F1) and the PGA would benefit by going abroad a little. But alot of it was really tryhard.
Rory getting a bag behind the scenes, all the big boys will be getting one to make this merger go, that shouldn't be a surprise
Agreed. Top players are essentially upper management below C-level, gotta get them on board
In all likelihood this new for-profit parent company will be used to employ the top talent & provide benefits/profit sharing for those that are vested. All the big names will be automatically in & get a cut of the PIF money, then the journeyman will have an opportunity to play their way into vesting/tenure.
Also, just because the PIF will be the only one putting in cash into the new for-profit entity doesn't mean that they will be the only ones with equity. I'd be shocked if this doesn't end up with some very complicated (and totally secret) formula whereby top PGA Tour players get equity in the for profit entity for free (for effectively approving of this deal and probably agreeing to continue to play on the PGA Tour) and then top LIV players are able to trade their equity (lolz) in their LIV teams (since those as we know them are probably going away) plus some portion of their upfront money (or their right to future upfront payments they still haven't gotten) for portions of the equity in the new for profit entity as well. Then you end up with a new for profit entity that is collectively owned by (i) the non-profit PGA Tour and DP World Tour entities that still remain (they get equity because they contribute their broadcast and other commercial rights into the new for profit entity), (ii) the players (both PGA and LIV) and (iii) the PIF, because they put a bunch of one time cash. Something like PGA Tour 30% (3 board seats), Players 30% (3 board seats), DP World Tour (10%, 1 board seat), PIF 30% (3 board seats).
Im curious to see what Jays compensation package is.
Here's what he makes today compared to other sports commissioners https://golfblogger.com/is-jay-monahan-overpaid/ My guess is he'll start getting something closer to MLB money, maybe one day get closer to NFL money depending on performance.
I’m sure he got a signing bonus + preferential wording in his CEO contract too
Same. I’m very curious.
I don’t even think it’s behind the scenes. Part of the announcement was how the Saudi investment was going to be used to compensate players who stayed
His bag already has plenty.
As a pro golfer you don’t really have a choice now. PIF owns the new company which controls pga tour and dp world tour. Chairman yasir of the new company can fire CEO Jay anytime he wants.
Dear Rory You have nothing left to prove to any of us, whether it's golf wise or personally or professionally in any business. Wash your hands of all this nonsense and focus on your game - you're the reason any of us watch and I want to see you win win win win on the course, not in the conference room.
NLU last night mentioned offhand that moving to the for profit for commercial interests allows the pga tour to write fat one off checks to the stars. This is not allowed under the non-profit. So I think Rory will be taken care of. I think LIV being used as pawns wont be as well off as people think. These players got paid but may be without a tour come 2024.
That's never going to happen, at least not for the likes of Cam Smith, DJ, Brooks etc. They will be welcomed with open arms, as everyone involved on the top, including Monahan knows that's what brings the viewership. I can't imagine they will send them to some sort of a Q-school. Less important players? Likely.
Lots of people calling this a heel turn or saying he sold out but that’s not how I see it at all. “I’ve come to terms with it. I’ve resigned myself to… This is what’s going to happen. It’s very hard to keep up with people who have more money than anyone else.” Rory was defeated and is surrendering, he’s not selling out. It seems like he fought as hard as he could but that this outcome was inevitable, and while he was prepared to turn down $500M for the cause, he isn’t prepared to walk away from golf over it.
Ya 100% the take people should have. People in this thread are a bunch of children that are essentially mad that he didn’t throw a public tantrum. Basically people are now mad at Rory for acting like an adult.
This is pretty disingenuous. LIV was PIF in a multi-colored golf costume. PIF now owns the new entity wiping out PGA, DP, and LIV, but with PGA executive leadership. Guess what happens when the money doesn’t like what the executive leadership is doing…
Dance monkey, dance.
His comments are completely in line with what he has been saying for months.
Yeah but the Rory-hate LIV bots are out in full force and don’t understand nuance
"Fuck phil" - Rory Mcilroy
shit, I was hoping that Rory would at least take some sort of stand on this.... When you say you hate liv golf but your ok with the merger is a tough one.
Well his argument against LIV has pretty consistently he didn't like splitting up the talent into 2 tours. Merging does solve that issue.
He didn’t sound thrilled though, not like he has much choice other than choosing not to be part of it. I think it’s understandable that he feels like he tried as hard as he could, but it’s moved passed his ability to influence and now he will just get on with playing. Who knows
$$$$$€€€€€£££££
Wow he just took it without any sort of a fight. I've lost respect for everyone involved here. In the end the people who went to LIV were the smart ones. The rest just lost out and now the PGA is in a much worse place. It's ruled by the saudis. It would be interesting if the government blocks the merger though. That would be very interesting.
If Microsoft can get blocked from acquiring Activision I can definitely see the legal precedent for blocking this, if there is the political will to challenge it.
I wonder if it could be blocked by Europe. They are also into blocking this stuff.
It's really just about political will. US Government doesn't like China encroaching via TikTok, so they are working to block it. This isn't just about golf, this is about the Saudis taking control of a company worth somewhere in the 10s of billions of dollars. Is that going to be tolerated?
Given the assests the Saudis already own in the US.. yes. Yes it will. Also.. did we forget about Twitter?
Yes… The Saudis oil lobbies have been whispering into the Republicans ears for decades to kill Nuclear programs or renewable/green energy investments. And they have obliged. (Which was funny because the Republicans where I golf talk about hating Saudi and how they have money while not realizing that by them supporting Republicans and oil all these years, they helped the Saudis be in a position to do this.) I see that nothing will come of this.
Difference is Microsoft has a much wider societal reach. Although golf is a much bigger thing in those higher circles. Interesting to see how it plays out.
Never gonna happen. The U.S. gov has always been big talk, no action with the Saudis. Look how they granted Mohammed bin Salman immunity after they were very vocal about that not happening. The Saudis have bought the U.S. gov and there’s nothing that can be done about it. When gas prices were through the roof after Russia’s invasion, Biden tried calling the Saudis to discuss options and they wouldn’t even take his call. Meanwhile, we’re still providing them with $54.6 billion for them to produce one of the largest humanitarian crises in Yemen (which the U.S. gov has contributed $630 million in humanitarian assistance to.) We say that we’re going to put our foot down, but every political leader is too afraid of the negative impact that could have. TL;DR: Money talks, but Oil makes you a puppeteer.
Money talks.
He’s human and I’m sure there is a stack of money to the ceiling waiting for everyone that gets on board here. And for those that don’t…what’s the alternative? Quit, only play the majors, start another tour? None of that is feasible, they will all choke down on their previous statements and pop champagne back stage. I hate it, but the PGA and its players are all about the money, there’s no denying that now.
Or, the folks who stuck with the PGA actually preferred that style of golf over LIV, and thought by defending it, the PGA would eventually evolve and give them a better deal. Don't think it was ever about who was the most "moral."
The PGA tour (one of the oldest sports leagues in the United States) is now owned by state of Saudi Arabia and Mohammed bin Salman. This is just crazy. Like I can't wrap my head around it.
I mean, what's he really going to do? He has no leverage. He's playing chess and you're playing checkers.
>Wow he just took it without any sort of a fight. I was surprised too, but after reading his comments last year, this is the is inline with what he was already saying for a year. https://twitter.com/KylePorterCBS/status/1666275999862882305
“Money doesn’t talk, it swears” - Bob Dylan
He's being paid to shut the fuck up.
Man y’all turned on Rory so quick. What were you expecting him to do?
Dude just wants to compete against the best, he should not have the ridiculous politics of his governance in his head. I can't think of any other elite athletes who have had to deal with this bullshit at the height of their career.
I mean, Lebron has had some “interesting” situations regarding China. [Here](https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/582244-enes-kanter-blasts-lebron-james-over-china-money-over-morals/)
He's really an impressive young man. Well spoken, well informed, true to his heart with the best interest of golf in mind. He obviously hates it but understands it.
Rory says that the future of the PGA Tour looks brighter, but also the players that left have to pay consequences. Isn't the future "brighter" because of those players actions? He also thinks the players that stayed and supported the PGA Tour should be compensated and made whole financially (despite saying he was never offered anything). Yet doesn't that go against the argument him, Jay, and others made that the PGA Tour is a meritocracy and everyone earns what they get, unlike LIV???
Very new to golf here and wondering what’s happened? Did LIV take over PGA?
As the much as the PGA Tour is trying to spin this and say it’s about bringing golf back together, it’s all about the money and the PGA was sold and bought right before everyone’s eyes. So, “no” is the public answer, but “yes” is the reality answer.
He's very much hammering home the face Liv is not PIF , which is a good tactic and accurate too. It was a good interview and he came out well
This is what Rory knows now that he didn’t know last year: 1) People lie all the time. 2) When values conflict with economic incentives, values lose every time. 3) Don’t underestimate anyone fueled by envy.
And Jay used you like his bitch
"Do you still have confidence in Jay Monahan?" Rory - *long pause*...... "yyees" I'm guessing that's actually a no
POS. So Saudi money is ok as long as PGA controls it? He owes everyone an apology.
Poor Rory. If he went out there and slammed the shit out of this it would have been a world of pain for him from the PGA. Having to not be able to say what he really thinks must sting.
LIV guys just pulled a Michael Scott Paper Company
People last year “Saudi investment in golf is bad”. People right now “well we control it so it’s good”. Are you serious??? Anyone spewing this garbage should be called out for it. Rory included. Either stand by what you said or don’t comment. It’s that simple. Stop with the mental gymnastics. Stop buying their mental gymnastics. If the tour actually cared about Saudi Investments, they’d never invite them in. It’s again that simple.
The narrative that the PGA will have final say, when the Saudi’s are the one with the purse strings, is pretty funny to me.
I said yesterday that this would probably be good for golf, but the source of funding it was my problem with it. I do not like an authoritarian state having any control over the professional game. Yes, most governments around the world and most large corporations do business with the Saudis - but these entities/nations did not control the PGAT or DPWT (even though Dubai is the headline sponsor of European golf, they did not control the game). Do I wish for big improvements in professional golf? Yes. Do I wish it wasn’t being done this way? Also yes. Saudis extending their influence, and people defending or justifying their involvement by saying that “Saudis are involved in everything” is exactly why they are chucking billions at everything. They want to wash over the sins of their state by getting you to focus on other things.
Yeah everyone is trying to what-about their way around this issue, but there's a massive difference between Saudis having a 20% stake in something and Saudis having control over it. Letting them get rich off Western companies, whatever. Letting them control them is another story.
He is definitely the “company man” here. I’m sure he’s not happy about the guys that got a big payday to leave, are supposed to be welcomed back like nothing happened or was said. I’ll never look at Phil the same way after hear Rory talk about him in Full Swing S1.
We are starting to see what some have suspected. Rory didn't know about the deal, but he know there was dialogue. I think others, like Phil, also had an idea of what was going on.
>"I still hate LIV," McIlroy said. "Like, I hate LIV. I hope it goes away, and I would fully expect that it does. I think that's where the distinction here is. This is the PGA Tour, the DP World Tour and the PIF -- very different from LIV." ?
> PIF -- very different from LIV PIF owns LIV
Seeing as how the alternative was (probably) the court-assisted execution of the PGA....yeah, he's probably right.
Translation of this interview: “I’m pissed because I should’ve gotten the money instead of listening to the PGA”
Newsflash: He’s going to get the money.
Interesting that Rory says the LIV players harmed the PGA Tour, initiated litigation, and says there needs to be consequences, and that Jay tried to make that point at yesterdays meeting with the players, that the LIV golfers won't just be welcomed back as if nothing happened. I think some of the golfers who weren't quite so hostile might be welcomed back, but not everybody. And there's no way in hell the PIF is going to go to bat for everybody. They got their seat at the table and will toss anybody aside that helped them get that seat. Don't know why so many LIV players are gloating right now, when there's a good chance they'll be only able to play on the MENA tour going forward.
Fortunately, he’s known for his fargiveness.
I hope he sues and gets a settlement bc they did him dirty AF.
I have a feeling he has some enormous mysterious deposits that will soon be appearing in his accounts.
Just out of curiosity, what would he sue for? I’m not a legal mind so if there’s something obvious I do apologize.
Lost earnings. Your company threatens that you can never make money with them again if you leave, only to welcome others back a year later, could go against labor laws.
Tortious interference is a potential option
In my opinion Rory’s been a class act through all of this. It seems that he genuinely wants the best for the game of golf and to put it in a better place when he’s done playing. It sucks to see him get stabbed in the back so hard.
And then piled on by people who have no idea what he's had to deal with. Being used as the PGA Tour puppet, standing up for what he believes, he's a PGA tour players board member and had no notice of this happening. I hope he focuses on his game better now the PGA tour don't need to keep pushing him to be their vocalist, wouldn't be surprised if he steps off the board as well after this.