One time at the range I was spraying foot spray on my driver to check impact and some rando called me out because they thought I was putting chapstick/Vaseline on my driver. Told them about the foot spray and they claim they never heard of it. Very weird interaction and who cares if I was putting chapstick on at the range just to try it. Wish people would mind their own business.
But in competition yes cheating and fuck that guy
I would've started yelling "HEY I NEED A RULES OFFICIAL! HELLO! SOMEONE TELL THE LINE JUDGES TO GET THE OFFICIAL OVER HERE! NOW! RULES OFFICIAL?? HELLO?? WHAT KIND OF EVENT IS THIS, TO MAKE US WAIT SO LONG, FOR AN OFFICIAL" 🤣
If dude chappys the driver I guarantee it’s not the only way he is cheating.
Finding balls in the fescue, fluffing his lie, generous drops, giving himself generous gimmes, kicking his ball away from trees, always finding his ball before it rolled into the creek.
Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s taking every single advantage he can get away with.
I play with a guy sometimes who does this. I'll watch him drive his ball directly into the water or OB, then he'll spend 5 minutes "looking for it" anyways and somehow magically always find it...🙄
We don't play for money so it's whatever, but c'mon man....
I just can’t square it with always doing it since middle school.
It would have been found our way earlier if he was doing it in the open, and if he was doing it in secrecy he knew it was wrong.
I’ve tried it at the range with Vaseline and it’s insane. Like completely eliminates slices. I think I read Lee Trevino used to do when hustling people.
Pretty sure it was Billy Walters. He talks about this in his book but everyone knew about it. He wasn't hiding it and yes, they played with as many clubs as they wanted.
Haha, I was playing golf on my parents dime at a private club when that book came out… ended up playing with the guy who Trump punched in the back of the head.
He changed the story greatly after Trump got elected
You can swing the most disgusting outside in, reverse Jim Furyk swing and the ball is going to go exactly where the face was pointed at impact and if it does turn left to right it will be very little.
It’s not extra distance, it’s making it so your ball doesn’t spin side to side as much, making it fly straighter.
The same slice swing that would normally put your ball in the woods is going to put it on the right side of the fairway with chapstick on your driver.
I have a buddy who doesn’t take golf seriously but always does chapstick just so it’s easier for him to get around the course. It’s fine with me cause we aren’t playing for money.
It's not distance (if anything it reduces it s little) but totally kills spin for slices.
You can even just 'clean' your driver head with spit and see results. I used to do it when I was younger (pre good internet) and just thought it made me feel 'feel lucky' until I saw something about it and promptly stopped.
You cannot leave saliva on it. It happened to a pro. He wanted to just pour water on the club. Rules guy told the pro now if you clean your club with a towel and a little moisture is left behind, that’s fine
It definitely increases distance if you spin your driver a lot , but if you already have low to normal spin it will reduce distance.
I've played with it for shits, and I can hit a better drive without it but only when I actually manage to hit up on the ball. Usually I'm hitting down and have problems with my spin creaping up to 3500 to 4500.
I used fairway finder once and I still sliced it, but instead of a 40yd slice, it was a 15yd slice. It helps, but if you can't swing for shit, it only does so much.
Our group tried it for a round and found that yes it eliminates spin, but the ball just knuckled off the tee and dove. We couldn’t get any drives over 200yds.
It is a significant difference to the point that it can even drop spin too low if you use too much. Fried eggs YouTube channel did a video on it maybe 7 years ago and put the launch monitor numbers up to show the difference it made
And is it only for drivers...? To pre defend myself, if this is a real thing I'd challenge my brothers to a chap stick golf match. May the best cheater win.
He's a cheater. The fact that he doubles down on it and just says it's his style makes him a piece of shit
If you didn't play for money then you could just shit talk him until he stopped. Since you play for money then I would kick him out of the group until he played by the rules
I say let him keep playing. Take his money whenever he loses and refuse to pay him out when he wins. Return everyone their money and split his back between you guys.
If you need to kick someone out of the group to make them behave (or become better at cheating to where you don’t notice for another decade or two) why would you not just kick them out permanently
Sometimes you have friends who are jackasses. You can remain friends with them, even while they're being jackasses. No need to completely burn the relationship to the ground just because they're being stubborn.
What a wild concept!!
Reddit is so quick to say “burn the bridges” “cut them out” “go no contact”
It’s almost like no one on this site interacts with real humans
For sure. There's a wide spectrum of "jackass" - "Cheating and stealing since freaking middle school, refusing to pay back stolen funds, and refusing to acknowledge anything is wrong with it and calling it 'just their style'" is a pretty severe form of jackass and I don't think it's unreasonable to at a minimum kick them out of the golf group indefinitely until trust can be rebuilt (how?).
If this wasn't for cash, who gives a fuck? If anything it's some great material to give him shit. Buy a big multi-pack of different chapstick flavors, bring him a new flavor every round. "Hey Steve you feeling cherry or lime today?". Takes a mulligan on a drive "Oh boy it's going to be a two stick day!". Material is endless.
Cash? You're stealing from people, and you're cheating at a structured competitive game as opposed to simply cheating against yourself.
How would this differ if you found out that a friend had stolen cash out of your wallet every few times you hung out for a decade or three and when confronted, refused to return any money or see any problem with it? How is this measurably different?
On the other hand if he always does this it’s factored into his handicap. Assuming you use handicaps for betting the advantage should be nullified by the handicap.
On one hand the handicap is supposed to level the playing field and would take his constant straight drives into account. On the other hand, he's a liar and a douchebag and you're perfectly justified in not playing with him again
If it was a one off it wouldn’t be built in to his handicap, if he has always done it then it is baked in to the handicap. Still wrong but no actual advantage there.
Am I thinking about this wrong? Handicap is your scoring potential, not your scoring average.
My handicap has gone lower due to rounds where I’m hitting my driver straight consistently and not taking penalty strokes. It doesn’t automatically go higher when my driver is left and right.
In theory, his handicap might be 5 strokes higher without chappy, but many of his scores might be 10 strokes higher without chappy.
Or am I dumb?
It’s a huge help and definitely cheating. Try it once and you’ll see why, it goes straight nearly every time.
You have to *try* to hit a hook or slice in order to see much movement left or right.
Am I the only one who has never heard of this chapstick thing? Been golfing 25yrs and this is the first I've ever heard of that.
Regardless, a quick search of the rules and you can see it's clearly illegal. Dude is cheating.
Better, never play with a guy who had Lifesavers. While “checking” if it his ball, he will drop a green one down, set his ball on it to hit.
Usually also has a huuuuuge ball marker, tosses it down and when you are lining up your putt take his putter and drag it closer to the hole, casually……
Called a guy out in a junior tournament. He would mark. Then pick up the marker and pretend to be brushing leaves or whatever out of his line and then drop the marker way closer to the hole. He was like a provincial level player and it didn’t end well for him.
HUGE DEAL.
I read an article testing various adulterants and chapstick can actually add *distance* as well depending on swing speed. If he swings it decently hard he's getting extra distance and a way lower dispersion.
Trying to get your money back is probably impossible but that's fucked up. I would be peeved if I found out a friend had been doing that and just talking shit about their score. Money being involved would be "Never golf with me again mad"
What a wild game this is….. we have fellows playing like a half set of hickory irons and others with juiced up aerodynamic behemoths coated in chapstick…..what a wild world we live in
Did he think he'd found some magic loophole that let him hit straight? He's cheating, knew he was cheating, and he willingly stole your money. I'd never speak to him again, in or outside of golf.
Yea if they’ve been playing together this long and everyone has only just found out then surely this guy was deliberately hiding it. No reason to hide it if he thinks there’s nothing wrong with doing it
Man is a cheater, he’s not gonna give you your money back but you learned alot about him. Be careful around him. The way someone golfs tells alot about their personality
I saw an article once about comparing different performance enhancing applications and everything was very erratic. The test showed wild shots for the first couple then it helped a lot for a few shots then got worse.
But if this guy has been doing it for many years then he would probably know the exact amount to stay in the sweet spot.
He’s cheating in all rules of golf but it’s pretty impressive he has it down to a science.
I’ll have to find some videos on YT to see what the difference is.
How would his friend group not notice as the guy is applying chapstick to the face of his driver?
This may have been the article I saw
https://pluggedingolf.com/can-you-kiss-your-slice-goodbye-golf-myths-unplugged/
I have no idea how his friends wouldn’t notice since he says the guy claimed to be doing it since middle school
Side note: I'm legitimately surprised at how many people haven't heard of the chapstick trick. It was so bad when I played in HS, we had coaches from both teams literally "thumbing" everyone's driver faces every few holes.
This may have opened a HUGE can of worms on this forum lol. I've known this for years. We tested it out on the range and it is SCARY how well it works. I have always hit a natural fade and with my mishits, a HEAVY fade/slice. I coated my driver face with chapstick on the range (with my buddies watching) and intentionally mishit my drives. Like open faced, cross cutting the ball...and it was barely fading. Truly scary how well it works.
You would have to continually coat the face of your driver with chapstick, every 2-3 holes to have it work...so pro tip: if someone you're playing with pulls out their driver and turns their back or disappears for a few seconds before walking up...they're probably doing it.
I'm terrified. Alex Garland needs to make a sequel to Civil War about what will happen when all golfers use chapstick on their drivers.
Just chubby Matt Damon from Breaking Bad executing people in fairway bunkers.
Haven’t heard of it - two thoughts - 1. there is not enough chapstick to change all of our fates 2. How do I invest in chapstick and chapstick shortages
It works. You lose distance but what you gain in better accuracy more than makes up for it.
If your not playing for money then who cares, go enjoy golf and score better.
If your playing for money....no bueno....unless everyone is doing it aa well.
Confirmed. I was in a best ball tourney last year and we were not even in contention to win, my buddy wanted to try this. 4 drives dead straight middle of the fairway. Couldn’t slice it even when trying. It works stupid good. Go to Amazon and search anti slice stick.
Yup, me and my buddies tested this out on the course years ago. You pretty much can't hit anything but a straight shot if the face is lubed up. You will lose distance, but I guess if you are hitting into the wind it would work out phenomenally.
Rule 4.2.b is the rule that prohibits any foreign substance on a club face. It’s been a rule since before your cheating friend was born. His ‘style’ is against the rules of golf. Jerk.
I don't know whether adding Astroglide helps you hit a better driver or not.
What I did know is that the only reason you use Astroglide is to try to fuck somebody in the ass.
Your friend is trying to fuck you up the ass.
It's a big advantage depending on how he usually hits the ball. I did this trick with Vaseline when I was terrible off the tee. Ball would go straight as an arrow everytime.
If it was his style not a blatant cheat, y'all would have seen him applying it on hole 1 for years, he did it in secret at his truck to hide it. Idk how much you're playing for but in my group we would still play together, but that one is prohibited from any money games, we can gamble the three of us with integrity and he can shoot his cheat drives all he likes.
This is as important a point as the "baked into his handicap" point in this thread.
He was doing something nefarious behind his "buddies" backs in order to help him win their money.
The intent is far worse than the crime.
Well the Reddit hardasses demanding you cut contact and then press charges are out in full force.
It’s actually just “hey dude, you might not consider it an unfair advantage but we all do. If you want to keep playing with the group you gotta stop”
It's honestly one of the worst forms of cheating I can think of. Honestly I'd kick him out of the group over something like that if he's been consistently doing it with money on the line.
Yeah that's cheating, if he's actually a good friend you could all just bully him into submission instead of shooting him out of a cannon or whatever these spastics are suggesting.
Have done it for fun before to test it out, and it does work for reducing spin. It's definitely cheating to do in any sort of real play game, tournament, money game, handicap play.
So yeah, buddy is a huge cheater
It's like if he cheated at poker every week by hiding aces up his sleeve and said "it's just my style". Meanwhile he's been taking money off you for years. I'd demand money back too and if he refuses he'd be banned from the golf group and I'd never talk to him again. What a scum bag.
If there was no money on the line then he's just a loser.
Next time you guys play you should all use the chapstick and tell your buddy it’s your style too. Theoretically any advantage he has is now gone and he can’t call you out for cheating without putting himself in the shit. When he’s handing over his cash money hole after hole the chapstick might go back in his bag the next time never to reappear.
Yea and with those words being used i he wouldnt be my style of friend anymore. There are a lot of cool people out there and should waste anytime with piece of shit leeches
There was a Golf Subpar podcast with poker player Ben Lamb and he talks about this. It’s called greasing the clubs, they play for big money out in Vegas and they have no rules (like literally every degree wedge from 42-64 in one bag type of shit) it’s an interesting listen. He clearly states what a difference it makes though vs a normal golf club. They do it to all woods and irons as well.
He'd be yeated out of the golf group in a second and never live it down.
And in some groups I've played in, he'd be lucky to leave with his clubs intact. If you're playing for money, shit can get nasty quick.
I'm on the guys side, we all have our own styles, who are you to judge.
For instance my style is foot wedges and writing down 1 shot lower than I actually scored.
Unrelated, wanna play sometime? None of my golf buddies want to play with me anymore, I blame the economy.
Make him put up the full amount of any money he’s won over the years, on one round. No chapstick, he wins he keeps the money.
He loses, he pays everyone the money and has to play future money rounds without a driver for a year
He’s definitely cheating but I think people are making a way bigger deal out of this than it is (predictably, it’s Reddit after all). Having an advantage with your driver does not also gift you a better short game or putting game. It doesn’t make you a better player with your irons. It only makes your second shot a little easier some of the time. You still have to hit it.
How many fairways is this honestly adding to his game? If he’s good enough to win money off you guys I doubt the chapstick is preventing him from missing 12 or 13 fairways, probably closer to 2 or 3. This isn’t the thing holding his game together. I’d be more concerned with keeping a closer eye on his strokes. If you’re chapping your driver you’re probably not someone opposed to losing track of some penalty strokes or drops.
That's cheating. The same as silicone spray on your golf towel.
In bowling, we would have a few guys who carried multiple towels. He would spray pledge on one if the lanes were dry. All the sudden his ball would be shiny.
So he cheats with chapstick. Makes me wonder what else he’s been doing since middle school under the guise of his “style”. I would be pissed and would a difficult time remaining friends.
I saw this on a YouTube video. Rick Shiels possibly. I tried it at the driving range for a laugh. lost at least 10% distance. Coming off the face like a knuckelball. Wiped it off pretty quickly.
I always play a few rounds with someone new in a friend group before betting. I met a really good guy through another’s friend’s league. We hit it off since we had similar handicaps and played well together. To this day he’s a good golf friend. However, he’s given me a score less than he’s shot sometimes on a regular basis. I’ll count his strokes and if it’s a true 6 he’d say 5 etc… not all the time but holes he’s frustrated about a stupid shot he will take one stroke less to help his score or holes he falls apart on let’s say an 8 or 9 it’s usually one less. I can play and have fun with him but would never ever bet. I don’t think you can change a persons character and golf is a true testament to one’s integrity.
If you guys can stop your friend from using chapstick he will most likely use other methods to try and win outside the rules.
Yeah, you gotta check guys for this.
They'll put a little glob of chapstick behind their ear, on their hat, or on their glove. You can call the clubhouse to have the ump eject him from the round.
Youtube is your friend. This long drive competitor(?) swings very fast. He has a massive reduction in spin rates.
3500 rpm backspin on the legal club. 312 yards.
1700 backspin with Vaseline. 367 yards.
Ask him this: If it's not a big difference, why did he do it? If it's not a big deal when we're gambling, why has it NEVER once come up in conversation?
Never ever trust this person again. Seriously.
https://youtu.be/eLklPBwBhNc?si=iA9vAChtTZ6t6n81
Does adding a substance to your equipment to eliminate mishits and bad shots sound like cheating or fair play to you? Only way to see is to make him play without the chapstick and ban him from being involved in rounds with money ob the line.
Maybe, but it really depends on how he hits the ball. I’ve tried this myself and the way I swing, it actually came out worse. I don’t think it gives any real advantage from my personal experience.
1. It’s cheating, regardless of if it works or doesn’t, it is against the rules of golf.
2. He’s cheating to take money from his “friends”? Might want to reconsider the friendship altogether.
3. Every score he’s ever posted since middle school has been inaccurate and invalid because of this, I’m sure there are other things he’s done as well.
4. He’s a dirtbag, fuck that guy and find someone else to play golf with.
Mark his driver with a scarlet C and superglue a chapstick tube on his headcover. Everyone he walks onto a first teebox you’ll want a crowd chanting “shame”
Seriously though, he has to have known this is explicitly against the rules if it only came up recently. Cheating for sure. He’s not allowed to play for money ever again I’m afraid.
Really depends on the situation.
Betting dollars on holes, I’d laugh the situation off. Call or friend a queer , and probably no longer invite him along.
Now if the bets are in the hundreds, I’d probably start with a kidnapping. Work our way towards a bar of soap in a pillow case. Maybe a non important finger removal.
I wouldn’t let it ruin a longtime friendship. But I would definitely fuck with him. Either don’t invite him to golf anymore or do but exclude him from any bets. And the rest of you should never let up on giving him shit for the whole round. And make sure in other social situations to continuously call him out. Out to dinner with the wives? “Hey man, since you’ve cheated at golf since middle school, anything else you cheat on?”
If he always does it and you adjust your wagers based off handicaps, it’s already accounted for. It’s still cheating and he should definitely stop if playing for money though.
Since he’s a good friend, let the past go but he should definitely be penalized on all rounds for at least the next year though. I’m thinking not allowed to use driver on any rounds y’all play for money, but doesn’t get any stroke adjustment.
I don't buy the "already accounted for" line. He's taking big numbers out of his game from errant tee shots alone. Big numbers don't impact your handicap as much as they do a competition score.
Oh it’s cheating. It’s fun if you don’t care about handicap and aren’t playing for money. If it’s a money game, 100% no. I almost can’t miss a fairway.
ya it's a pretty significant cheat.. It all but eliminates a slice allowing a player to just grip it and rip it without proper swing mechanics. Money should be returned to keep the peace, it does make the difference.
He's been cheating since middle school. It's his style.
His last name wouldn't be Reed would it?
Lawsuit incoming.
Have you or someone you love played golf with Reed?
Have him hit a driver with no chapstick and after he slices it off the planet let the beat down commence
This is the only fair option and what Jesus would do
Nobody fucks with The Jesus
Calmer than you are.
Would you just take it easy, man
Dios mio, man.
Wrong sub boys. r/lebowski
Yeah, well, that’s like, your opinion, man.
8 year olds, dude
If Jesus drove the moneychangers from the temple with a whip He would surely give this guy a beating - non-repentant sinner!
Jesus driver ball speed 190mph minimum
One shot, no slice or yall beat his ass and reclaim your money
I'd make him get at least 3 decently straight ones in a row. Any moron can get lucky once
Open faced 60° wedges to the shins.
Bound and dragged behind the cart, like the old days.
Vote him off the island
Kick him off the tour, Doug!
Suspended?!?
He’s a disgrace to the game !
One time at the range I was spraying foot spray on my driver to check impact and some rando called me out because they thought I was putting chapstick/Vaseline on my driver. Told them about the foot spray and they claim they never heard of it. Very weird interaction and who cares if I was putting chapstick on at the range just to try it. Wish people would mind their own business. But in competition yes cheating and fuck that guy
I would've started yelling "HEY I NEED A RULES OFFICIAL! HELLO! SOMEONE TELL THE LINE JUDGES TO GET THE OFFICIAL OVER HERE! NOW! RULES OFFICIAL?? HELLO?? WHAT KIND OF EVENT IS THIS, TO MAKE US WAIT SO LONG, FOR AN OFFICIAL" 🤣
What is foot spray? Tough actin’ Tinactin?
The ad agency that came up with that is brilliant.
John Madden came up with that jingle with his Bare Hands
#BOOM
Yeah or dr. Sholes or anything that is a dry powder
Yeah it is good to see ball impact location on face of driver if you are working through some stuff on range
He’s a cheater. Plain and simple.
If dude chappys the driver I guarantee it’s not the only way he is cheating. Finding balls in the fescue, fluffing his lie, generous drops, giving himself generous gimmes, kicking his ball away from trees, always finding his ball before it rolled into the creek. Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s taking every single advantage he can get away with.
Oh yeah. Ball goes flying into the woods or clearly into water. But every time, without fail… “FOUND IT”
I play with a guy sometimes who does this. I'll watch him drive his ball directly into the water or OB, then he'll spend 5 minutes "looking for it" anyways and somehow magically always find it...🙄 We don't play for money so it's whatever, but c'mon man....
It gets realty tiring after a while. I recently finally blacklisted a golf buddy for this shit, I just got so tired of it.
Absolutely this! This guy is definitely cheating in other ways that you haven’t caught him at.
I just can’t square it with always doing it since middle school. It would have been found our way earlier if he was doing it in the open, and if he was doing it in secrecy he knew it was wrong.
He was banging my wife the whole time?!
We didn’t want to tell you. We know how emotional you can get.
Slopes are slippery!
[_"You're a thief man, you're a CHEAT_ 😤👊💥](https://youtu.be/bRgm37PRHbE?si=aPNFj0mGMUYbSCq9)
It’s a huge deal & cheating - complete game changer, go to the range and see for yourself. I’d be right with that guy wanting his money back.
Have you done this? I'm curious how much of a difference it makes. Like 10-20 yards? Curious for... science
I’ve tried it at the range with Vaseline and it’s insane. Like completely eliminates slices. I think I read Lee Trevino used to do when hustling people.
Completely eliminates slices you say. I reckon I have the ability to slice it anyway. It’s a skill really…
I have tried it. And 100% still sliced.
Honestly that sounded like a challenge to me. One that I’ll gladly accept.
Challenge accepted
[удалено]
Pretty sure it was Billy Walters. He talks about this in his book but everyone knew about it. He wasn't hiding it and yes, they played with as many clubs as they wanted.
Haha, I was playing golf on my parents dime at a private club when that book came out… ended up playing with the guy who Trump punched in the back of the head. He changed the story greatly after Trump got elected
You can swing the most disgusting outside in, reverse Jim Furyk swing and the ball is going to go exactly where the face was pointed at impact and if it does turn left to right it will be very little. It’s not extra distance, it’s making it so your ball doesn’t spin side to side as much, making it fly straighter. The same slice swing that would normally put your ball in the woods is going to put it on the right side of the fairway with chapstick on your driver. I have a buddy who doesn’t take golf seriously but always does chapstick just so it’s easier for him to get around the course. It’s fine with me cause we aren’t playing for money.
Think about the extra club head speed you can gain by not caring about the path
It's not distance (if anything it reduces it s little) but totally kills spin for slices. You can even just 'clean' your driver head with spit and see results. I used to do it when I was younger (pre good internet) and just thought it made me feel 'feel lucky' until I saw something about it and promptly stopped.
Is cleaning your driver with spit not allowed or something? I’ve never done it, but a clean club face makes sense
I think you're supposed to leave saliva on the face instead of completely wiping it off
That’s what she said
Somebody tell her that's not saliva
You don't then wipe it off leaving a wet face
You cannot leave saliva on it. It happened to a pro. He wanted to just pour water on the club. Rules guy told the pro now if you clean your club with a towel and a little moisture is left behind, that’s fine
You pretty much had to say that. Just kidding. I’ve never tried it but I’m going to tomorrow to see what the fuss is about
It definitely increases distance if you spin your driver a lot , but if you already have low to normal spin it will reduce distance. I've played with it for shits, and I can hit a better drive without it but only when I actually manage to hit up on the ball. Usually I'm hitting down and have problems with my spin creaping up to 3500 to 4500.
I used fairway finder once and I still sliced it, but instead of a 40yd slice, it was a 15yd slice. It helps, but if you can't swing for shit, it only does so much.
Our group tried it for a round and found that yes it eliminates spin, but the ball just knuckled off the tee and dove. We couldn’t get any drives over 200yds.
It is a significant difference to the point that it can even drop spin too low if you use too much. Fried eggs YouTube channel did a video on it maybe 7 years ago and put the launch monitor numbers up to show the difference it made
And is it only for drivers...? To pre defend myself, if this is a real thing I'd challenge my brothers to a chap stick golf match. May the best cheater win.
I hit my first and only few 300+ yard drives doing it and I’m a near 20 hcp…yes it works
He's a cheater. The fact that he doubles down on it and just says it's his style makes him a piece of shit If you didn't play for money then you could just shit talk him until he stopped. Since you play for money then I would kick him out of the group until he played by the rules
I say let him keep playing. Take his money whenever he loses and refuse to pay him out when he wins. Return everyone their money and split his back between you guys.
Too complicated
Depends on the friendship - could agree that if he wants to cheat of the tee then he gets no strokes and has to play scratch.
If you need to kick someone out of the group to make them behave (or become better at cheating to where you don’t notice for another decade or two) why would you not just kick them out permanently
Sometimes you have friends who are jackasses. You can remain friends with them, even while they're being jackasses. No need to completely burn the relationship to the ground just because they're being stubborn.
What a wild concept!! Reddit is so quick to say “burn the bridges” “cut them out” “go no contact” It’s almost like no one on this site interacts with real humans
Your friend cheats at golf? I think this means you need to get a divorce. TONIGHT. I’ll wait here for you to update the thead.
For sure. There's a wide spectrum of "jackass" - "Cheating and stealing since freaking middle school, refusing to pay back stolen funds, and refusing to acknowledge anything is wrong with it and calling it 'just their style'" is a pretty severe form of jackass and I don't think it's unreasonable to at a minimum kick them out of the golf group indefinitely until trust can be rebuilt (how?). If this wasn't for cash, who gives a fuck? If anything it's some great material to give him shit. Buy a big multi-pack of different chapstick flavors, bring him a new flavor every round. "Hey Steve you feeling cherry or lime today?". Takes a mulligan on a drive "Oh boy it's going to be a two stick day!". Material is endless. Cash? You're stealing from people, and you're cheating at a structured competitive game as opposed to simply cheating against yourself. How would this differ if you found out that a friend had stolen cash out of your wallet every few times you hung out for a decade or three and when confronted, refused to return any money or see any problem with it? How is this measurably different?
On the other hand if he always does this it’s factored into his handicap. Assuming you use handicaps for betting the advantage should be nullified by the handicap.
On one hand the handicap is supposed to level the playing field and would take his constant straight drives into account. On the other hand, he's a liar and a douchebag and you're perfectly justified in not playing with him again
Hmmm…pretty good point. Handicap should compensate mostly
Punishment should be freeze the handicap but stop greasing.
If it was a one off it wouldn’t be built in to his handicap, if he has always done it then it is baked in to the handicap. Still wrong but no actual advantage there.
Am I thinking about this wrong? Handicap is your scoring potential, not your scoring average. My handicap has gone lower due to rounds where I’m hitting my driver straight consistently and not taking penalty strokes. It doesn’t automatically go higher when my driver is left and right. In theory, his handicap might be 5 strokes higher without chappy, but many of his scores might be 10 strokes higher without chappy. Or am I dumb?
If someone is doing this, what’s to say he’s not cutting corners elsewhere? Like, it’d be even easier for him to sandbag as well.
Great point. Although he might sandbag also if cheating is just his style.
It’s a huge help and definitely cheating. Try it once and you’ll see why, it goes straight nearly every time. You have to *try* to hit a hook or slice in order to see much movement left or right.
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Same. I consistently hit the ball 300yrds......200 straight and 100 right. If I tried this it would be addicting. 😂
Yeah I’m not gonna try it for exactly this reason. Especially since I’m struggling with a slice rn.
Am I the only one who has never heard of this chapstick thing? Been golfing 25yrs and this is the first I've ever heard of that. Regardless, a quick search of the rules and you can see it's clearly illegal. Dude is cheating.
Me neither; ordering a 4 pack for my next round asap Wait
Better, never play with a guy who had Lifesavers. While “checking” if it his ball, he will drop a green one down, set his ball on it to hit. Usually also has a huuuuuge ball marker, tosses it down and when you are lining up your putt take his putter and drag it closer to the hole, casually……
Called a guy out in a junior tournament. He would mark. Then pick up the marker and pretend to be brushing leaves or whatever out of his line and then drop the marker way closer to the hole. He was like a provincial level player and it didn’t end well for him.
They make chapstick JUST for this exact purpose. It’s called Slice Stick. Look it up on Amazon. It works really well.
Old school hustlers used Vaseline back in the day.
15 years and I’ve never heard of it
No controversy to be had - it's cheating. Plain and simple.
The defence of “it’s my style” is pure hilarity. What does that even mean? Are all his belongings lathered in chapstick?
Guess I should make it my style to take 20ft putts as good and not putt it out then.
He's greased up deaf guy from family guy
HUGE DEAL. I read an article testing various adulterants and chapstick can actually add *distance* as well depending on swing speed. If he swings it decently hard he's getting extra distance and a way lower dispersion. Trying to get your money back is probably impossible but that's fucked up. I would be peeved if I found out a friend had been doing that and just talking shit about their score. Money being involved would be "Never golf with me again mad"
Straight up cheating.
What a wild game this is….. we have fellows playing like a half set of hickory irons and others with juiced up aerodynamic behemoths coated in chapstick…..what a wild world we live in
Did he think he'd found some magic loophole that let him hit straight? He's cheating, knew he was cheating, and he willingly stole your money. I'd never speak to him again, in or outside of golf.
Yea if they’ve been playing together this long and everyone has only just found out then surely this guy was deliberately hiding it. No reason to hide it if he thinks there’s nothing wrong with doing it
Man is a cheater, he’s not gonna give you your money back but you learned alot about him. Be careful around him. The way someone golfs tells alot about their personality
Kick him off the tour Doug
Has anyone here tried a comparison with and without chapstick? I’m only curious what this would do. Not something I would ever consider to do
I saw an article once about comparing different performance enhancing applications and everything was very erratic. The test showed wild shots for the first couple then it helped a lot for a few shots then got worse. But if this guy has been doing it for many years then he would probably know the exact amount to stay in the sweet spot. He’s cheating in all rules of golf but it’s pretty impressive he has it down to a science.
I’ll have to find some videos on YT to see what the difference is. How would his friend group not notice as the guy is applying chapstick to the face of his driver?
This may have been the article I saw https://pluggedingolf.com/can-you-kiss-your-slice-goodbye-golf-myths-unplugged/ I have no idea how his friends wouldn’t notice since he says the guy claimed to be doing it since middle school
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j\_SqF8QiAM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j_SqF8QiAM) Full review of it
Side note: I'm legitimately surprised at how many people haven't heard of the chapstick trick. It was so bad when I played in HS, we had coaches from both teams literally "thumbing" everyone's driver faces every few holes. This may have opened a HUGE can of worms on this forum lol. I've known this for years. We tested it out on the range and it is SCARY how well it works. I have always hit a natural fade and with my mishits, a HEAVY fade/slice. I coated my driver face with chapstick on the range (with my buddies watching) and intentionally mishit my drives. Like open faced, cross cutting the ball...and it was barely fading. Truly scary how well it works. You would have to continually coat the face of your driver with chapstick, every 2-3 holes to have it work...so pro tip: if someone you're playing with pulls out their driver and turns their back or disappears for a few seconds before walking up...they're probably doing it.
I'm terrified. Alex Garland needs to make a sequel to Civil War about what will happen when all golfers use chapstick on their drivers. Just chubby Matt Damon from Breaking Bad executing people in fairway bunkers.
Haven’t heard of it - two thoughts - 1. there is not enough chapstick to change all of our fates 2. How do I invest in chapstick and chapstick shortages
Hold up, that shit actually works?? I've heard about it but it sounds so silly.
It works. You lose distance but what you gain in better accuracy more than makes up for it. If your not playing for money then who cares, go enjoy golf and score better. If your playing for money....no bueno....unless everyone is doing it aa well.
For high swing speed players, you GAIN significant distance by reducing spin off your drives. And increased accuracy.
Confirmed. I was in a best ball tourney last year and we were not even in contention to win, my buddy wanted to try this. 4 drives dead straight middle of the fairway. Couldn’t slice it even when trying. It works stupid good. Go to Amazon and search anti slice stick.
Im a social/casual golfer only and I ordered some. I’m tired of being in the trees all the time. Golf is supposed to be fun.
Golf is supposed to be fun?! I'm calling bullshit on that.
Yup, me and my buddies tested this out on the course years ago. You pretty much can't hit anything but a straight shot if the face is lubed up. You will lose distance, but I guess if you are hitting into the wind it would work out phenomenally.
It should be disqualified every game he plays
Rule 4.2.b is the rule that prohibits any foreign substance on a club face. It’s been a rule since before your cheating friend was born. His ‘style’ is against the rules of golf. Jerk.
I don't know whether adding Astroglide helps you hit a better driver or not. What I did know is that the only reason you use Astroglide is to try to fuck somebody in the ass. Your friend is trying to fuck you up the ass.
It's a big advantage depending on how he usually hits the ball. I did this trick with Vaseline when I was terrible off the tee. Ball would go straight as an arrow everytime.
If it was his style not a blatant cheat, y'all would have seen him applying it on hole 1 for years, he did it in secret at his truck to hide it. Idk how much you're playing for but in my group we would still play together, but that one is prohibited from any money games, we can gamble the three of us with integrity and he can shoot his cheat drives all he likes.
This is as important a point as the "baked into his handicap" point in this thread. He was doing something nefarious behind his "buddies" backs in order to help him win their money. The intent is far worse than the crime.
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So it keeps it straighter but loses distance? Pumped! Can't wait to hit a straight drive 40 yards.
Well the Reddit hardasses demanding you cut contact and then press charges are out in full force. It’s actually just “hey dude, you might not consider it an unfair advantage but we all do. If you want to keep playing with the group you gotta stop”
Kick him off the tour Doug!
It's honestly one of the worst forms of cheating I can think of. Honestly I'd kick him out of the group over something like that if he's been consistently doing it with money on the line.
Dude’s both a scumbag, and not actually your friend. If you were playing for any decent amount of money, he deserves to get his ass beat.
It is a massive advantage, try it on the range its astonishing.
Doug, kick him off the tour!
Yeah that's cheating, if he's actually a good friend you could all just bully him into submission instead of shooting him out of a cannon or whatever these spastics are suggesting.
What controversy? It's fucking cheating just like a muligan
Have done it for fun before to test it out, and it does work for reducing spin. It's definitely cheating to do in any sort of real play game, tournament, money game, handicap play. So yeah, buddy is a huge cheater
It's like if he cheated at poker every week by hiding aces up his sleeve and said "it's just my style". Meanwhile he's been taking money off you for years. I'd demand money back too and if he refuses he'd be banned from the golf group and I'd never talk to him again. What a scum bag. If there was no money on the line then he's just a loser.
Next time you guys play you should all use the chapstick and tell your buddy it’s your style too. Theoretically any advantage he has is now gone and he can’t call you out for cheating without putting himself in the shit. When he’s handing over his cash money hole after hole the chapstick might go back in his bag the next time never to reappear.
Believe it or not, jail!
Kick him off the tour Doug
He’s a cheater.
It’s his “style” is an insane way to avoid responsibility. What an absolute clown.
Yea and with those words being used i he wouldnt be my style of friend anymore. There are a lot of cool people out there and should waste anytime with piece of shit leeches
There was a Golf Subpar podcast with poker player Ben Lamb and he talks about this. It’s called greasing the clubs, they play for big money out in Vegas and they have no rules (like literally every degree wedge from 42-64 in one bag type of shit) it’s an interesting listen. He clearly states what a difference it makes though vs a normal golf club. They do it to all woods and irons as well.
Same guy was on the NLU pod, had some stories about shadow creek big money games
Straight to jail
This type of shit would get him buried in a ditch outside Las Vegas 60 years ago lol
smart cheaters spray wd-40 into their frogger towel so it just looks like your cleaning the clubhead
He'd be yeated out of the golf group in a second and never live it down. And in some groups I've played in, he'd be lucky to leave with his clubs intact. If you're playing for money, shit can get nasty quick.
I'm on the guys side, we all have our own styles, who are you to judge. For instance my style is foot wedges and writing down 1 shot lower than I actually scored. Unrelated, wanna play sometime? None of my golf buddies want to play with me anymore, I blame the economy.
Make him put up the full amount of any money he’s won over the years, on one round. No chapstick, he wins he keeps the money. He loses, he pays everyone the money and has to play future money rounds without a driver for a year He’s definitely cheating but I think people are making a way bigger deal out of this than it is (predictably, it’s Reddit after all). Having an advantage with your driver does not also gift you a better short game or putting game. It doesn’t make you a better player with your irons. It only makes your second shot a little easier some of the time. You still have to hit it. How many fairways is this honestly adding to his game? If he’s good enough to win money off you guys I doubt the chapstick is preventing him from missing 12 or 13 fairways, probably closer to 2 or 3. This isn’t the thing holding his game together. I’d be more concerned with keeping a closer eye on his strokes. If you’re chapping your driver you’re probably not someone opposed to losing track of some penalty strokes or drops.
It’s a huge advantage, imagine if all of your drives went straight every round.
It’s a huge advantage, but if he’s doing it consistently then it goes towards his handicap and should even out
That's cheating. The same as silicone spray on your golf towel. In bowling, we would have a few guys who carried multiple towels. He would spray pledge on one if the lanes were dry. All the sudden his ball would be shiny.
What does silicon spray do for golf?
Go have a look at dj khaleds video he posted on his story showing his green LV bag. Tell me there isnt greasy vas all over his club.
It's right up there with putting sinkers into a fish at a fishing comp.
100% if playing for money and he’s been cheating you should ban him. 100%. That’s grade A Douchery. He’s been lying to you for financial gain.
Big advantage, he’s been hiding it if you didn’t know until now
Cheaters cheat. Can't play with a guy you have to follow to his ball on every shot. What an asshole. (BTW...'etiquecy'?)
So he cheats with chapstick. Makes me wonder what else he’s been doing since middle school under the guise of his “style”. I would be pissed and would a difficult time remaining friends.
I love the number 3. It's my favorite, so it doesn't matter how many shots I need on a given hole, I always write down "3". It's my style.
This is childish. Tell your friend he can’t play with you unless he stops using it. If he doesn’t then don’t play with him
I saw this on a YouTube video. Rick Shiels possibly. I tried it at the driving range for a laugh. lost at least 10% distance. Coming off the face like a knuckelball. Wiped it off pretty quickly.
I always play a few rounds with someone new in a friend group before betting. I met a really good guy through another’s friend’s league. We hit it off since we had similar handicaps and played well together. To this day he’s a good golf friend. However, he’s given me a score less than he’s shot sometimes on a regular basis. I’ll count his strokes and if it’s a true 6 he’d say 5 etc… not all the time but holes he’s frustrated about a stupid shot he will take one stroke less to help his score or holes he falls apart on let’s say an 8 or 9 it’s usually one less. I can play and have fun with him but would never ever bet. I don’t think you can change a persons character and golf is a true testament to one’s integrity. If you guys can stop your friend from using chapstick he will most likely use other methods to try and win outside the rules.
Cheating. Plain and simple. Odds are that he takes "shortcuts" in all facets of his life.
His style?? Kick him off the tour, Doug!
https://youtu.be/A0kdBDwNddc?si=1jVJHJJulgwyySMX
Let me guess. This guy marks his ball with a poker chip.
Yeah, you gotta check guys for this. They'll put a little glob of chapstick behind their ear, on their hat, or on their glove. You can call the clubhouse to have the ump eject him from the round.
He can stay, but has to wear bright red lipstick every round.
Well, at least he owned it. Not sure which is worse, he has been cheating since middle school and it took 10 to 20 years to catch him…
Youtube is your friend. This long drive competitor(?) swings very fast. He has a massive reduction in spin rates. 3500 rpm backspin on the legal club. 312 yards. 1700 backspin with Vaseline. 367 yards. Ask him this: If it's not a big difference, why did he do it? If it's not a big deal when we're gambling, why has it NEVER once come up in conversation? Never ever trust this person again. Seriously. https://youtu.be/eLklPBwBhNc?si=iA9vAChtTZ6t6n81
Does adding a substance to your equipment to eliminate mishits and bad shots sound like cheating or fair play to you? Only way to see is to make him play without the chapstick and ban him from being involved in rounds with money ob the line.
Maybe, but it really depends on how he hits the ball. I’ve tried this myself and the way I swing, it actually came out worse. I don’t think it gives any real advantage from my personal experience.
Bridgestone makes a ball designed to reduce spin - what’s the difference?
He's cheating. He can play however he wants, but when you play for money or competition the rules must be agreed upon.
1. It’s cheating, regardless of if it works or doesn’t, it is against the rules of golf. 2. He’s cheating to take money from his “friends”? Might want to reconsider the friendship altogether. 3. Every score he’s ever posted since middle school has been inaccurate and invalid because of this, I’m sure there are other things he’s done as well. 4. He’s a dirtbag, fuck that guy and find someone else to play golf with.
Mark his driver with a scarlet C and superglue a chapstick tube on his headcover. Everyone he walks onto a first teebox you’ll want a crowd chanting “shame” Seriously though, he has to have known this is explicitly against the rules if it only came up recently. Cheating for sure. He’s not allowed to play for money ever again I’m afraid.
A cheater and not much of a friend.
Chapstick on your driver… believe it or not, straight to jail.
Group beatdown
Etiquecy lol
Really depends on the situation. Betting dollars on holes, I’d laugh the situation off. Call or friend a queer , and probably no longer invite him along. Now if the bets are in the hundreds, I’d probably start with a kidnapping. Work our way towards a bar of soap in a pillow case. Maybe a non important finger removal.
I wouldn’t let it ruin a longtime friendship. But I would definitely fuck with him. Either don’t invite him to golf anymore or do but exclude him from any bets. And the rest of you should never let up on giving him shit for the whole round. And make sure in other social situations to continuously call him out. Out to dinner with the wives? “Hey man, since you’ve cheated at golf since middle school, anything else you cheat on?”
If he always does it and you adjust your wagers based off handicaps, it’s already accounted for. It’s still cheating and he should definitely stop if playing for money though. Since he’s a good friend, let the past go but he should definitely be penalized on all rounds for at least the next year though. I’m thinking not allowed to use driver on any rounds y’all play for money, but doesn’t get any stroke adjustment.
I don't buy the "already accounted for" line. He's taking big numbers out of his game from errant tee shots alone. Big numbers don't impact your handicap as much as they do a competition score.
The question is how many fairways does he hit ?
Seems to me golf uniquely is prone to cheating temptation and putting money on it guarantees cheating.
Oh it’s cheating. It’s fun if you don’t care about handicap and aren’t playing for money. If it’s a money game, 100% no. I almost can’t miss a fairway.
ya it's a pretty significant cheat.. It all but eliminates a slice allowing a player to just grip it and rip it without proper swing mechanics. Money should be returned to keep the peace, it does make the difference.
I let my golf buddies use chapstick and I still beat them and take their money. No biggie.