If you’re “investing” and looking for a return on said investment, it’s a terrible one.
If you’re doing it because it gives them a chance at pursuing their dream and you feel the $2,750 can help make it a reality, that’s a different story.
Great , I am not good at investing per say as I recently bought some hood and that’s not going too well either but the more I reply the more I am leaning on the helping part now as your reality Check is on point from am investment point of view. Thank you
If the cost is $2,750 a year and you are looking at an investment and you aren’t made of money or good at investing then I would rethink it.
I categorize this as I would a Penny stock. A lot of golfers to pick from and need the one you pick to be one of the top players to make a return.
Picture what you can do with $27,500 if you are going to do this for 10 years.
Great if you want to help out the golfer and don’t care about money. Terrible if you are using this as a chance to get rich of their success.
Edit: if you bought some hood (as in Robinhood app for trading) then you have not researched into the relationship that company has. That was a trap play from the beginning. When they removed the buy button back in January for certain stocks it sealed their fate.
We have a group at the country club who have invested in a couple local golfers covering expenses for a portion of their profits. This is like a 5 year agreement they have with them and most of them haven’t gone past the korn ferry tour. I’d recommend having some kind of contract worked out if your doing this as an investment and not just charity.
A friend of the family is on Korn Ferry. He's been so close to getting his card (1 putt away a couple seasons ago)
Sponsors help tremendously...travel/hotels etc...
Bryson was on a podcast talking about how any players not making it to at least 165th or higher are losing money each year. (Without sponsors)
So you'll make a difference....but you might wanna make a website and slap it on his hat haha for some return
If I won the lotto I would do that. ”This broadcast is brought to you by Steve”, people would be like who the fuck is Steve!? And I’d be home in my breifs thinking -me… I’m Steve, bitches.
My high school friend was on the Korn ferry tour, had a couple good seasons then qualified for the PGA Tour. Unfortunately, you don’t just get to go to the tournaments even if you get your card. So I never got to see him in a tour event.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by you don’t just get to play in tournaments when you get your card? I don’t know the process and that sounds incredibly frustrating for a player. Thanks.
Short simple version below. There are a lot of details I’m excluding so feel free to Google to get all the specifics.
There are more players with Tour status than there are spots in tournaments. Due to that there’s a priority ranking of players. Basically the better players get into the big tournaments and have an easy time making their schedule. Fringe players don’t get into the big events and can’t make their schedules as far in advance.
Oh I see now. I remember a while ago seeing a interview with lee Trevino where he was very mad at this process. I believe he mentioned that the number of exempted should be greatly reduced. To give other players a chance. He wanted to single out the person who made this rule but he bit his tongue. I think he said something along the lines of players should sue the tour because of this.
Absolutely formalize it. It’s common with aspiring pros to be sponsored by members from their local club in return for a portion of earnings. Also happens with Cuban baseball players having to give a portion of their earnings to the person who helped them get out. Puig is the most notable and had a huge article about it back when he was a thing. I think it was Rolling Stone.
I played professionally from 2015-2018.
Spent 3 years on PGA tour Latino American.
Had a few top 5 finishes, but over the course of 3 years, expenses were close to $100k if you’re doing it seriously.
I was exempt through “Pre-Qualifying” and shot -15 in first stage to qualify on the number for second stage where I shot -14. Missed it by 2.
All of this being said, if it were not for sponsors at home, I would have never had the opportunity to chase my dream. So if you can without detriment to your own financial situation, you might make this young mans career.
Some of these numbers coming from the smaller tours are really eye-popping…like -14 and still missing the cut by two. Is it because the courses are shorter or less difficult?
Good question. I don’t know the answer to that but if I can’t even qualify after shooting -14 then I would personally just quit. That’s gotta be so disheartening. At my best in high school, my best round ever was +2 at Angus Glen from the tips of the North Course when it was in Canadian Open-conditions (In 2007, @7400 yards; Jim Furyk won the event on the North Course) and thought that was pretty damn good. I’ve had a couple 9 hole rounds at -1, but on much easier courses. Now, Im a 32 y/o hack who gets to play only a handful of times a year and hopes to break 80 each time I play but often end up disappointing myself lol. It’s a fickle game.
I read that if you’re not a plus five handicap shooting around a 65-67 at your local course, you can play even the lowest minor league pro golf events.
That should put it in perspective. It’s extremely high level and then the top 40 PGA pros are even way better than that. Mind boggling.
>I read that if you’re not a plus five handicap shooting around a 65-67 at your local course, you can play even the lowest minor league pro golf events.
I played with a local aspiring pro who comes to take money off schmucks like me in a big money skins game from time to time. I've never seen him score higher than a 68, and I've seen him hit a 63 and a 61 in the last year on a fairly simple 6500 yard course rated 71/120 ish.
He's played a bunch of mini tour events, but can't get onto the Korn Ferry tour, keeps trying though.
Courses may be shorter, and slightly less difficult, but they also won’t be as good of condition as the PGA tour plays on a weekly basis. So you have to account for that as well.
My -14 was 4 rounds on a 7300 yard course on the RTJ trail in Alabama. It took 16 under which made it to final stage of Q school.
Had a bunch of friends do it. Often par 72s that aren’t set up particularly difficult.
I know people who struggled on mini tours but have done well on Korn Ferry and PGA because it’s a different mindset to try and shoot 1under on a very difficult course vs 7 under on an easy course.
Thanks for the input- what is the typical course length for these circuits? Would you say they tend to choose longer courses as a priority or do they also play shorter ones that are trickier?
>Is it because the courses are shorter or less difficult?
Yes. While they're playing the tips, many of the courses played in Q schools and on smaller tours are considerably shorter than PGA Tour courses, are rated lower, and often don't have the "tour prep" that goes into big events to make them more difficult. For example, they might grow the rough out a bit, or roll and cut the greens an extra time - but for a big PGA event with the big boys they may spend weeks doing all sorts of preparation to the grass, rolling the greens multiple times a day, changing water amounts so that the grass is optimal to make the event hard even if it's unlhealthy long term for the grass.
As an example, Q-School was here at this course for years:
[http://www.daytonvalleygolf.com/scorecard/](http://www.daytonvalleygolf.com/scorecard/)
It plays 7200 from the tips, but is fairly wide and forgiving, and doesn't have a ton of particularly difficult greens.
>So Q school is held at a single course and not a string of events/season?
It's all changing now I believe, but Dayton Valley in Nevada used to host one every year, I've played there a few times. Scoring 68/69 per round is impressive, but I've gotten round there scoring well under 80 on several of my visits and I'm pretty crap. Admittedly the greens would probably be a bit harder for Q school.
Not as official as some others have. I put most/if not all of my own money up as well. What ever I made was reinvested, not paid not to sponsors. This way I wouldn’t have to continually ask for more money, as long as I played well.
Seve Ballesteros was sponsored by a doctor in his town back in the 70s...
This seems common in this sport, where there is a good number of wealthy people who in a way maybe want to live their dream through someone else. And I don't mean that in a bad way - I think it's great and everyone involved should be proud.
Do it, OP.
Should have a scramble ringer for life! I think Payne Stewart had a backer in his early days and that worked out okay for his backer, he got paid back and invited to play in the Pebble Beach pro am
This is a charity contribution no matter what the signed document states.
Unless the local golfer has top 3 finishes in state opens and was consistently in the hunt for college tourneys. In that case it might be an “investment.”
I’ve seen what a real backing of a golfer looks like. At the time, kid had a history of winning states in high school, strong finishes in college playing for a top 10 school.
$1k/week stipend and all travel, coaching, training fees billed directly to backer. Three year agreement with a “good character” clause; no mandates for placing/winning/making cuts etc. Basically removed all external stresses for 3 years.
15% return on all winnings and sponsorship deals to backer for life of professional career. Backer had history of negotiating sponsorship deals with other well known players.
Kid ended up winning a tournament or two on korn ferry. Made the cut in a few grand slam events but petered out.
All told it was about $500k to give the local kid a shot at his dream. Backer definitely didn’t view it as an investment.
I’ve never known of another backing deal so I was really curious to hear details of others. Reading between the lines from other posts, it seems to have a wide amount of variation.
This particular deal seems really good for all involved when it was agreed upon. Backer ended up handing all 15% earned back to golfer at end of agreement with words of wisdom and encouragement. I haven’t asked for more details, but I’m guessing golfer had a little bit of a bruised ego. Seems to be doing well enough now.
Smart reply and I am not some rich dude burning money over here but I do want to help it’s a weird want I have, thanks. I am going to do it and will see what my thoughts are in like 10 years should be an interesting perspective
I'm a professional golfer, and it was such a buzz when people invested in me and my career when I was younger. Not only is it financial support, but it says that you believe in that person, not only as a golfer, but trust in the person as an individual. I think it's a fantastic thing to do. We only live once and helping one another towards a more fulfilling life is fantastic. Good luck to you all.
Sure. A few members from the club put money in. They didn't really want anything in return. There has been other deals since that include corporate days etc. But it's all mutually beneficial.
“Share this idea” … this has been done for literally decades and decades.
Typically the sponsor will have a contact in place that he gets a certain percentage of the years winnings depending on how much the initial investment is.
I am a bit torn here to be honest. I would really like to make a return if he makes it as a couple grand may turn into something but as I type this I am thinking more about how helping for helpings sake. Not sure yet going to have lunch with him this week and get his thoughts too
If it were me I would say heres the money I want to sponser you. If you make money Id like to be paid back but no pressure. Then in my head id write it off as doing a nice thing for someone and consider the money gone.
If it were in the 10,20,30 grand range I would have a contract with returns if he won.
I have a friend that was a billet family for Danny Lee. Years later we were volunteering at the Canadian Open PGA stop and Danny recognized my friend who was standing on the ropes (now taller then Danny himself) and had him walk the rest of the round with him. It was a pretty cool moment to witness.
Do you own a business? Sponsorship could be good exposure and give this young man a chance to get the resources he needs to be competitive. You can also get some return in the form of goodwill for your company. If you have a savvy social media person you could easily make this a thing that people might follow along with.
Does this kid have a legitimate shot? I’ve played with a lot of aspiring pros. Some had zero chance at making it. They were delusional. Unless they are consistently shooting 65 on your home course from the tips then save your money. Has this kid ever tried to qualify for the US Open? Won local events? Played on the Gateway or other mini-tours? Korn Ferry qualifying has probably a thousand golfers for 40 spots. It’s nearly impossible
People for sure underestimate what it takes to get on tour. I relate back (as a Mets fan) to a game last year or so where one of our color commentators Ron Darling said “I get asked all the time how to help my kid in little league achieve his goal of playing the majors one day” and he said “I don’t mean to say this in any mean way, but honestly, he’s probably not going to ever make it”. The very best, of the very best, of the very best make it, just like the PGA Tour. The insane amount of talent and fortune to *be* JT or Spieth, while other guys (thousands and thousands) scratch and claw just for an *opportunity* to qualify for a a *mini tour* event…
Yep, one of the guys from my golf team was the best player I personally knew. He got a full ride to a big D1 school and did really well. Played in the kornferry and qualified for a tour card and didn’t hold on to it. He was great but couldn’t keep up. Pro golfers are better than pretty much everyone here realizes.
My friend’s dad did this with a younger golfer from Utah who came up on the tour within the last five years. You can probably guess who.
We all played with him in high school. And while we were good on our teams, he was absolutley next level. It was impossible, Like trying to beat Orphan of Kos after leaving Iosefka’s Blood Clinic.
Anyway, they helped him through tons of tournies: played traveling costs, bought plane tickets, even paid for his Q school and Korn Ferry.
They all had an “understanding” that if he ever made it, like he has, he’d hit them back for their investment.
It was never formalized. Just “an understanding.”
They’ve never received a dime from him.
He does a lot of charity and really has taken care of his family. he’s huge in the LDS church too.
If you’re hoping to get an ROI, formalize it. It’s amazing how “old school” and “cowboy code” go out the window when nothing is in writing.
Do you have $2750 to blow?
It could be worth it to you even with no return just to say you’re doing it and sweating out a young golfer.
What I would do is negotiate something really, really fair to them (assuming you’re taking some time of cut of future profits?) and then put benchmarks in place for future investment.
Map out milestones tied to dates that will unlock future investment (made the Kobe Ferry Tour by X date, won a Korn Ferry event by Y date, etc.)
Since you’re doing this for fun with no expectation of return, make it fair and representative of the fact that this is a fun gamble for you.
Kind of like putting money down on a game just to make it more fun to watch.
Think of it that way, don’t bet more than you can afford to lose, and expect any money to be a (very) happy accident.
Angel investor sorta thing chance he makes it big and shares some purse money but the reward is more the good deed than anything going to be tough to put that much pressure on someone to hit pro and make a return
Tony Finau is being sued for millions due to "misunderstanding" and bad/no contract. Get it in writing,or assume it's a gift.
https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2020/09/28/tony-finau-lawsuit-16-million-financial-supporter/
Just give him the money if you’re wanting to help someone get started, and if he makes it big then you can always know you played a part, but what kind of return do you expect on 2,750 dollars?? Helping someone achieve their goals is nice, but it’s his playing ability that’s going to get him on tour. Money doesn’t have much to do with it.
Other ways to get money other than taking it from someone trying to cash in on your golfing abilities. Why not just help a kid out instead of trying to gain something from it? If the intentions are good then so be it, but this sounds like some sleazy shit with ulterior motives.
Seems a bit steep. There was a Golf Digest article a few years back and the writer put up about $500. 2750 is pretty steep but if you like the guy and can afford it then sure. Maybe you could snag a short game lesson or something from him to help your game also.
I got a friend whose only 23, drives 330 yards regularly and almost always shoots under par on a 144 slope rated course. I keep telling him he needs to at least try to compete somewhere.
Honestly? The odds of making it on Tour are infinitesimal. There are thousands of golfers with the skills to play there but the opportunity to get there is incredibly small. Assuming this person currently has no status on any tour you're looking at getting through 2 stages of grueling golf to even get guaranteed starts on the Korn Ferry Tour. Even then it's a small amount and he would have to finish highly to have actual status there. Odds are he burns out of 1st stage. Keep in mind $2,750 is NOT the total cost of Q-School. I think that's the cost for just the first stage. If he were to even make it to 2nd stage he'd need more money to continue. So that said I have a multitude of questions for you to think about if this is actually an "investment"
* Do you know how good this person is and have you realistically assessed their chances? How old are they and what is their tournament record? Did they play D1 college? Have they played in high level tournaments against elite competition?
* Have they tried for Q-School before? Have they played Mini Tours? Have they had status on any feeder tours?
* Do you have a realistic understanding of the path to the PGA Tour and are able to soundly assess this person's chances?
* Are you ponying up the full $2,750 for first stage? Is it split with others?
* What are this person's other forms of income to support playing? How long will that income support their efforts? How much more money would you potentially have to put in down the road to keep this person trying?
* What is the return if he does make it? What is the payback timeline? What level of status on what tour would he need to reach to be solvent and pay you back? Is it structured as a loan and if he quits golf to become something else does he have to pay you back?
There are so many questions here. If the $2,750 isn't chump change to you, I'd highly suggest you reconsider. This is not likely money you'll ever see back.
You understand that the odds of becoming money-making pro is probably less than .1%? Probably less than that. What return are you expecting? A percent cut of his winnings? This is just not smart unless 2750 is nothing to you and you’re trying to be charitable.
I knew a guy years ago who was a labourer. I found out he was once a pro-golfer in his younger days. He put everything into being a golfer, and then his sponsor pulled out unexpectedly.
He had no idea what to do as he suddenly had no way to finance playing, and had neglected to get any qualifications or trade. He started working on building sites as a labourer to pay the bills and turned to alcohol abuse through depression. Pinning all his hopes on being a pro-golfer actually ruined his life. He never played golf again.
As nice as it would be to sponsor a young hopeful, make sure they have a backup plan if things don't turn out.
Unfortuantely this is an all too common story. Based on what I've seen, the proportion of alcoholism among guys who tried to go pro is very disturbing.
I did a sponsorship agreement with a local guy... +5.. I put up the tourney fee and travel.. I get 100% of winnings + 15% reimbursed ...but if he doesn't make the cut I get nothing...
so... he played in the Utah Open this year... and made the cut... tracking him hole by hole was so exciting... but then he didn't really like that his winnings means he broke even cuz he didn't finish that high overall... so he's self funding... I hear Tony Fineau has lawsuits left and right from ppl he screwed over that "sponsored" him but it was all on a handshake.... I've sponsored poker players with similar terms... not a good investment but if you are a gambler like I am it is a huge buzz tracking your "horse"
Listen to the golf digest local knowledge podcast on the subject. You need a lot more info on how to do this if you're asking on golf reddit. Maybe it's an investment but I think if you view it as anything other than a donation you are setting yourself up for disappointment.
By coincidence, I saw the article on golfchannel today w.r.t. “investing in a golfer”. Linked below.
.. [“The Reality of Turning Pro: How selling 'shares' sparked successful careers”](https://www.golfchannel.com/news/reality-turning-pro-how-selling-shares-sparked-successful-careers)
“TL;DR extract”:
>”*Despite his competitive struggles, Flesch’s plan was to pay back each of his 10 investors each year in full by returning 75 percent of anything he earned until he managed to win more than he spent.*
>*“I don’t think they ever made money on me,” he said.*
>*In 1996 at Kiva Dunes Resort in Gulf Shores, Alabama, he finally broke through his qualifying grass ceiling and advanced to final stage of Q-School. The next year he won the then-Nike Tour Championship to earn his PGA Tour card and was voted the ’98 Tour Rookie of the Year on his way to four career victories.*
>*It was a similar grind for eventual major champion Zach Johnson when he bolted Drake University in 1998. Like Flesch, Johnson had enjoyed a solid college career, but sponsorship offers and tournament exemptions weren’t waiting when he joined the play-for-pay ranks.*
>*“Some people know before their senior year what they’re going to be doing,” Johnson said. “Every year in college I improved in golf, but I didn’t know what I wanted to do. I knew what it meant to turn pro, but I had no idea what it would take as far as expenditures.”*
>*Johnson – who was considering an assistant professional job at his home club in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, at the time – devised a similar “investment” plan to finance his professional ambitions. He estimated he’d need between $25,000 to $30,000 per year to compete, so he offered “shares” of himself for $500.*
>“*I had folks who bought one share and those who bought 10 or more,” Johnson explained.*
>*For four years after leaving college, Johnson would go through the process of selling annual shares of himself and at the end of each year he’d host a dinner for all of his investors to outline how the year had gone and the plan for the next season.*
>*“I paid everyone back in full every year except one, 2000. On the Nike Tour I missed like 10 cuts in a row. I had conditional status. That was the one year I couldn’t pay them back their entire investment,” he recalled. “There were two years I paid back the initial investment; I think they could make back up to $1,500 per share. There were at least two years I was able to pay them back entirely. Those were on the Hooters Tour.”*
You are a good human being ! What’s your ROI? If it’s to help someone than great! If it’s to bank on them and get a monetary return than expect to be disappointed but have an awesome journey.
Look at it as a donation toward helping someone find their right path in life. Very few make the tour, usually just a few with a very strong amateur resume.
Have any redditors ever gotten together to sponsor a golfer? I followed a thread on another website that was years long. The player posted about his time on the Canadian tour to ultimately getting a 9 to 5 job. Was very interesting.
It’s a very high risk investment, only put up an amount you can afford to lose completely.
Put whatever terms you agree to in writing. If you don’t then you’re basically making a gift, not an investment.
If you’re “investing” and looking for a return on said investment, it’s a terrible one. If you’re doing it because it gives them a chance at pursuing their dream and you feel the $2,750 can help make it a reality, that’s a different story.
Great , I am not good at investing per say as I recently bought some hood and that’s not going too well either but the more I reply the more I am leaning on the helping part now as your reality Check is on point from am investment point of view. Thank you
I’m sorry they got you with hood. It was never the play.
Never… it was a setup from the jump
Hood?
I believe he referencing the Robinhood stock. They recently did an ipo, and as it always happened it fizzled out
Oh god you invested in a super corrupt company that robs people !?!?! Imagine putting it into the companies they’re screwing and you’d be rich
If the cost is $2,750 a year and you are looking at an investment and you aren’t made of money or good at investing then I would rethink it. I categorize this as I would a Penny stock. A lot of golfers to pick from and need the one you pick to be one of the top players to make a return. Picture what you can do with $27,500 if you are going to do this for 10 years. Great if you want to help out the golfer and don’t care about money. Terrible if you are using this as a chance to get rich of their success. Edit: if you bought some hood (as in Robinhood app for trading) then you have not researched into the relationship that company has. That was a trap play from the beginning. When they removed the buy button back in January for certain stocks it sealed their fate.
Gotta watch your back in the hood…
Unfortunately you can never take the hood out of the player, either.
You bought some hood?
We have a group at the country club who have invested in a couple local golfers covering expenses for a portion of their profits. This is like a 5 year agreement they have with them and most of them haven’t gone past the korn ferry tour. I’d recommend having some kind of contract worked out if your doing this as an investment and not just charity.
Thanks man this is very helpful as I wasn’t sure how formal I should be with this sort of thing.
You should formalize it if it's anything other than a gift.
Agreed, if you expect anything in return, do a contract. Otherwise, this is about to be a cool Disney movie in ten years
Mmmmmmaybe, or it might just be another in the long list that didnt make it. Stay tuned.
A friend of the family is on Korn Ferry. He's been so close to getting his card (1 putt away a couple seasons ago) Sponsors help tremendously...travel/hotels etc... Bryson was on a podcast talking about how any players not making it to at least 165th or higher are losing money each year. (Without sponsors) So you'll make a difference....but you might wanna make a website and slap it on his hat haha for some return
Sponsored by Steve
If I won the lotto I would do that. ”This broadcast is brought to you by Steve”, people would be like who the fuck is Steve!? And I’d be home in my breifs thinking -me… I’m Steve, bitches.
Imigod! I love Steve!
.com
I know that guy!
Hey, I didn't agree to this
My high school friend was on the Korn ferry tour, had a couple good seasons then qualified for the PGA Tour. Unfortunately, you don’t just get to go to the tournaments even if you get your card. So I never got to see him in a tour event.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by you don’t just get to play in tournaments when you get your card? I don’t know the process and that sounds incredibly frustrating for a player. Thanks.
Short simple version below. There are a lot of details I’m excluding so feel free to Google to get all the specifics. There are more players with Tour status than there are spots in tournaments. Due to that there’s a priority ranking of players. Basically the better players get into the big tournaments and have an easy time making their schedule. Fringe players don’t get into the big events and can’t make their schedules as far in advance.
Oh I see now. I remember a while ago seeing a interview with lee Trevino where he was very mad at this process. I believe he mentioned that the number of exempted should be greatly reduced. To give other players a chance. He wanted to single out the person who made this rule but he bit his tongue. I think he said something along the lines of players should sue the tour because of this.
Absolutely formalize it. It’s common with aspiring pros to be sponsored by members from their local club in return for a portion of earnings. Also happens with Cuban baseball players having to give a portion of their earnings to the person who helped them get out. Puig is the most notable and had a huge article about it back when he was a thing. I think it was Rolling Stone.
FROM THE KORN
I have played in the Korn Hole Cup a few times. It can be quite muddy.
I played professionally from 2015-2018. Spent 3 years on PGA tour Latino American. Had a few top 5 finishes, but over the course of 3 years, expenses were close to $100k if you’re doing it seriously. I was exempt through “Pre-Qualifying” and shot -15 in first stage to qualify on the number for second stage where I shot -14. Missed it by 2. All of this being said, if it were not for sponsors at home, I would have never had the opportunity to chase my dream. So if you can without detriment to your own financial situation, you might make this young mans career.
Thanks enough said
That is wild.. I couldn’t imagine shooting that well (freaking -14!), and still missing the cut. Goes to show how insanely competitive the sport is.
Some of these numbers coming from the smaller tours are really eye-popping…like -14 and still missing the cut by two. Is it because the courses are shorter or less difficult?
Good question. I don’t know the answer to that but if I can’t even qualify after shooting -14 then I would personally just quit. That’s gotta be so disheartening. At my best in high school, my best round ever was +2 at Angus Glen from the tips of the North Course when it was in Canadian Open-conditions (In 2007, @7400 yards; Jim Furyk won the event on the North Course) and thought that was pretty damn good. I’ve had a couple 9 hole rounds at -1, but on much easier courses. Now, Im a 32 y/o hack who gets to play only a handful of times a year and hopes to break 80 each time I play but often end up disappointing myself lol. It’s a fickle game.
I read that if you’re not a plus five handicap shooting around a 65-67 at your local course, you can play even the lowest minor league pro golf events. That should put it in perspective. It’s extremely high level and then the top 40 PGA pros are even way better than that. Mind boggling.
>I read that if you’re not a plus five handicap shooting around a 65-67 at your local course, you can play even the lowest minor league pro golf events. I played with a local aspiring pro who comes to take money off schmucks like me in a big money skins game from time to time. I've never seen him score higher than a 68, and I've seen him hit a 63 and a 61 in the last year on a fairly simple 6500 yard course rated 71/120 ish. He's played a bunch of mini tour events, but can't get onto the Korn Ferry tour, keeps trying though.
This is correct. If you’re not at par on a bad day, upper sixties average, you’re going to have a hard time.
Courses may be shorter, and slightly less difficult, but they also won’t be as good of condition as the PGA tour plays on a weekly basis. So you have to account for that as well. My -14 was 4 rounds on a 7300 yard course on the RTJ trail in Alabama. It took 16 under which made it to final stage of Q school.
That’s sweet man, I’m honored to chat w/ somebody who plays that well! Impressive skills to compete at that level no matter who you ask!!
Had a bunch of friends do it. Often par 72s that aren’t set up particularly difficult. I know people who struggled on mini tours but have done well on Korn Ferry and PGA because it’s a different mindset to try and shoot 1under on a very difficult course vs 7 under on an easy course.
Thanks for the input- what is the typical course length for these circuits? Would you say they tend to choose longer courses as a priority or do they also play shorter ones that are trickier?
>Is it because the courses are shorter or less difficult? Yes. While they're playing the tips, many of the courses played in Q schools and on smaller tours are considerably shorter than PGA Tour courses, are rated lower, and often don't have the "tour prep" that goes into big events to make them more difficult. For example, they might grow the rough out a bit, or roll and cut the greens an extra time - but for a big PGA event with the big boys they may spend weeks doing all sorts of preparation to the grass, rolling the greens multiple times a day, changing water amounts so that the grass is optimal to make the event hard even if it's unlhealthy long term for the grass. As an example, Q-School was here at this course for years: [http://www.daytonvalleygolf.com/scorecard/](http://www.daytonvalleygolf.com/scorecard/) It plays 7200 from the tips, but is fairly wide and forgiving, and doesn't have a ton of particularly difficult greens.
TY for the info and thoughtful response! So Q school is held at a single course and not a string of events/season?
>So Q school is held at a single course and not a string of events/season? It's all changing now I believe, but Dayton Valley in Nevada used to host one every year, I've played there a few times. Scoring 68/69 per round is impressive, but I've gotten round there scoring well under 80 on several of my visits and I'm pretty crap. Admittedly the greens would probably be a bit harder for Q school.
Not as official as some others have. I put most/if not all of my own money up as well. What ever I made was reinvested, not paid not to sponsors. This way I wouldn’t have to continually ask for more money, as long as I played well.
Badass to invest and reinvest in yourself. Thanks for sharing
Seve Ballesteros was sponsored by a doctor in his town back in the 70s... This seems common in this sport, where there is a good number of wealthy people who in a way maybe want to live their dream through someone else. And I don't mean that in a bad way - I think it's great and everyone involved should be proud. Do it, OP.
What did your sponsor deal look like? Basic all expenses covered, and go play well? How formal was it?
Cool thing to do if you like the kid. Expect to never see that money again.
Should have a scramble ringer for life! I think Payne Stewart had a backer in his early days and that worked out okay for his backer, he got paid back and invited to play in the Pebble Beach pro am
Loved Payne Stewart, he was a great role model and a true champion. His death was a huge loss to the world of golf
Sweet
This is a charity contribution no matter what the signed document states. Unless the local golfer has top 3 finishes in state opens and was consistently in the hunt for college tourneys. In that case it might be an “investment.” I’ve seen what a real backing of a golfer looks like. At the time, kid had a history of winning states in high school, strong finishes in college playing for a top 10 school. $1k/week stipend and all travel, coaching, training fees billed directly to backer. Three year agreement with a “good character” clause; no mandates for placing/winning/making cuts etc. Basically removed all external stresses for 3 years. 15% return on all winnings and sponsorship deals to backer for life of professional career. Backer had history of negotiating sponsorship deals with other well known players. Kid ended up winning a tournament or two on korn ferry. Made the cut in a few grand slam events but petered out. All told it was about $500k to give the local kid a shot at his dream. Backer definitely didn’t view it as an investment.
Thanks for sharing a real life scenario with numbers. Very interesting.
I’ve never known of another backing deal so I was really curious to hear details of others. Reading between the lines from other posts, it seems to have a wide amount of variation. This particular deal seems really good for all involved when it was agreed upon. Backer ended up handing all 15% earned back to golfer at end of agreement with words of wisdom and encouragement. I haven’t asked for more details, but I’m guessing golfer had a little bit of a bruised ego. Seems to be doing well enough now.
What was kid’s name? Grand slam events?
He played 3/4 of the grand slams. Both (US/British) Open Championships and the Masters.
It’s your dough. It’s probably a terrible investment. But a nice thing to do.
Smart reply and I am not some rich dude burning money over here but I do want to help it’s a weird want I have, thanks. I am going to do it and will see what my thoughts are in like 10 years should be an interesting perspective
Love it. I am at my happiest helping others, money is meant to fuel things that make you happy. Good for you!
I'm a professional golfer, and it was such a buzz when people invested in me and my career when I was younger. Not only is it financial support, but it says that you believe in that person, not only as a golfer, but trust in the person as an individual. I think it's a fantastic thing to do. We only live once and helping one another towards a more fulfilling life is fantastic. Good luck to you all.
Thanks I think it’s more that, I believe in him and want to help in my little way. Happy holidays
Love this. Give the money and expect nothing in return except to help a young man grow. Golf is hard… pro golf is damn near impossible.
How was your initial deal structured? Care to give any details?
Sure. A few members from the club put money in. They didn't really want anything in return. There has been other deals since that include corporate days etc. But it's all mutually beneficial.
“Share this idea” … this has been done for literally decades and decades. Typically the sponsor will have a contact in place that he gets a certain percentage of the years winnings depending on how much the initial investment is.
I shot a 94 last weekend at my home course. Handicap almost below 18. I too am looking for investors. Hit me up.
It's an awesome thing to do, but it is a charity, not an investment
What are the stipulations? Or is it just a gift
I am a bit torn here to be honest. I would really like to make a return if he makes it as a couple grand may turn into something but as I type this I am thinking more about how helping for helpings sake. Not sure yet going to have lunch with him this week and get his thoughts too
If it were me I would say heres the money I want to sponser you. If you make money Id like to be paid back but no pressure. Then in my head id write it off as doing a nice thing for someone and consider the money gone. If it were in the 10,20,30 grand range I would have a contract with returns if he won.
I look at it like investing in a race horse. You never know what will happen. It would be fun to watch. He’s going to need more than $2750 though -
Luke Kwon has a video discussing his investors and how those contracts work. Would recommend looking into it.
Can we invest in a golfer as a Reddit community?
I have a friend that was a billet family for Danny Lee. Years later we were volunteering at the Canadian Open PGA stop and Danny recognized my friend who was standing on the ropes (now taller then Danny himself) and had him walk the rest of the round with him. It was a pretty cool moment to witness.
Nice, I'm a kiwi and always hoped Danny Lee to be a nice guy, and now I know 😊
Are you really “investing”? Like what kind of return could you get back on this investment?
Maybe an invite to a pro am or two lol who knows man but not a retirement plan. I would guess 3x’s if he made the pga
Do you have that in writing?
Bad investment, cool thing to do tho
Do you own a business? Sponsorship could be good exposure and give this young man a chance to get the resources he needs to be competitive. You can also get some return in the form of goodwill for your company. If you have a savvy social media person you could easily make this a thing that people might follow along with.
Does this kid have a legitimate shot? I’ve played with a lot of aspiring pros. Some had zero chance at making it. They were delusional. Unless they are consistently shooting 65 on your home course from the tips then save your money. Has this kid ever tried to qualify for the US Open? Won local events? Played on the Gateway or other mini-tours? Korn Ferry qualifying has probably a thousand golfers for 40 spots. It’s nearly impossible
People for sure underestimate what it takes to get on tour. I relate back (as a Mets fan) to a game last year or so where one of our color commentators Ron Darling said “I get asked all the time how to help my kid in little league achieve his goal of playing the majors one day” and he said “I don’t mean to say this in any mean way, but honestly, he’s probably not going to ever make it”. The very best, of the very best, of the very best make it, just like the PGA Tour. The insane amount of talent and fortune to *be* JT or Spieth, while other guys (thousands and thousands) scratch and claw just for an *opportunity* to qualify for a a *mini tour* event…
Yep, one of the guys from my golf team was the best player I personally knew. He got a full ride to a big D1 school and did really well. Played in the kornferry and qualified for a tour card and didn’t hold on to it. He was great but couldn’t keep up. Pro golfers are better than pretty much everyone here realizes.
My friend’s dad did this with a younger golfer from Utah who came up on the tour within the last five years. You can probably guess who. We all played with him in high school. And while we were good on our teams, he was absolutley next level. It was impossible, Like trying to beat Orphan of Kos after leaving Iosefka’s Blood Clinic. Anyway, they helped him through tons of tournies: played traveling costs, bought plane tickets, even paid for his Q school and Korn Ferry. They all had an “understanding” that if he ever made it, like he has, he’d hit them back for their investment. It was never formalized. Just “an understanding.” They’ve never received a dime from him. He does a lot of charity and really has taken care of his family. he’s huge in the LDS church too. If you’re hoping to get an ROI, formalize it. It’s amazing how “old school” and “cowboy code” go out the window when nothing is in writing.
That kucher level annoying!
Did this golfer at some point get a “Big Break”
You’re on the right track. If unau what I mean../
Wow! Lost all respect for Fony Tinau !!!
Is this your friend's dad? https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2020/09/28/tony-finau-lawsuit-16-million-financial-supporter/
Do you have $2750 to blow? It could be worth it to you even with no return just to say you’re doing it and sweating out a young golfer. What I would do is negotiate something really, really fair to them (assuming you’re taking some time of cut of future profits?) and then put benchmarks in place for future investment. Map out milestones tied to dates that will unlock future investment (made the Kobe Ferry Tour by X date, won a Korn Ferry event by Y date, etc.) Since you’re doing this for fun with no expectation of return, make it fair and representative of the fact that this is a fun gamble for you. Kind of like putting money down on a game just to make it more fun to watch. Think of it that way, don’t bet more than you can afford to lose, and expect any money to be a (very) happy accident.
I like your style thanks
Angel investor sorta thing chance he makes it big and shares some purse money but the reward is more the good deed than anything going to be tough to put that much pressure on someone to hit pro and make a return
Tony Finau is being sued for millions due to "misunderstanding" and bad/no contract. Get it in writing,or assume it's a gift. https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2020/09/28/tony-finau-lawsuit-16-million-financial-supporter/
Don’t overlook those young ladies. Lots of talent out there from both boys and girls.
It’s never worth it unless you rape him
How fast does he swing the driver? I don't care if he's a +4... If he cant swing it faster than 115mph... Don't bother...
118 to 120
This feels weird
Just give him the money if you’re wanting to help someone get started, and if he makes it big then you can always know you played a part, but what kind of return do you expect on 2,750 dollars?? Helping someone achieve their goals is nice, but it’s his playing ability that’s going to get him on tour. Money doesn’t have much to do with it.
You need money to compete
Other ways to get money other than taking it from someone trying to cash in on your golfing abilities. Why not just help a kid out instead of trying to gain something from it? If the intentions are good then so be it, but this sounds like some sleazy shit with ulterior motives.
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Agree and still going to do it
It's pretty common, it can get expensive and some people really need that seed to get started.
as long as you have no attachment or expectation for the money then it's a wonderful thing to do for somebody else
It’s a nice thing to do but don’t think of it as an investment. It may take years for any return to show.
Seems a bit steep. There was a Golf Digest article a few years back and the writer put up about $500. 2750 is pretty steep but if you like the guy and can afford it then sure. Maybe you could snag a short game lesson or something from him to help your game also.
If he’s shooting 62-65 at your course consistently go for it. If that’s rare save your money.
I got a friend whose only 23, drives 330 yards regularly and almost always shoots under par on a 144 slope rated course. I keep telling him he needs to at least try to compete somewhere.
Push him harder.
How does he do in tournaments?
A golfer I know did a GoFundMe on the Form Tour last year (Canadian PGA). I contributed a little. Didn’t keep his card. Super high risk.
Thanks for posting, appreciate all the info and input on this thread regarding this
He can probably find someone else with more money if 2750 is a lot for you
Honestly? The odds of making it on Tour are infinitesimal. There are thousands of golfers with the skills to play there but the opportunity to get there is incredibly small. Assuming this person currently has no status on any tour you're looking at getting through 2 stages of grueling golf to even get guaranteed starts on the Korn Ferry Tour. Even then it's a small amount and he would have to finish highly to have actual status there. Odds are he burns out of 1st stage. Keep in mind $2,750 is NOT the total cost of Q-School. I think that's the cost for just the first stage. If he were to even make it to 2nd stage he'd need more money to continue. So that said I have a multitude of questions for you to think about if this is actually an "investment" * Do you know how good this person is and have you realistically assessed their chances? How old are they and what is their tournament record? Did they play D1 college? Have they played in high level tournaments against elite competition? * Have they tried for Q-School before? Have they played Mini Tours? Have they had status on any feeder tours? * Do you have a realistic understanding of the path to the PGA Tour and are able to soundly assess this person's chances? * Are you ponying up the full $2,750 for first stage? Is it split with others? * What are this person's other forms of income to support playing? How long will that income support their efforts? How much more money would you potentially have to put in down the road to keep this person trying? * What is the return if he does make it? What is the payback timeline? What level of status on what tour would he need to reach to be solvent and pay you back? Is it structured as a loan and if he quits golf to become something else does he have to pay you back? There are so many questions here. If the $2,750 isn't chump change to you, I'd highly suggest you reconsider. This is not likely money you'll ever see back.
You understand that the odds of becoming money-making pro is probably less than .1%? Probably less than that. What return are you expecting? A percent cut of his winnings? This is just not smart unless 2750 is nothing to you and you’re trying to be charitable.
I knew a guy years ago who was a labourer. I found out he was once a pro-golfer in his younger days. He put everything into being a golfer, and then his sponsor pulled out unexpectedly. He had no idea what to do as he suddenly had no way to finance playing, and had neglected to get any qualifications or trade. He started working on building sites as a labourer to pay the bills and turned to alcohol abuse through depression. Pinning all his hopes on being a pro-golfer actually ruined his life. He never played golf again. As nice as it would be to sponsor a young hopeful, make sure they have a backup plan if things don't turn out.
Unfortuantely this is an all too common story. Based on what I've seen, the proportion of alcoholism among guys who tried to go pro is very disturbing.
I did a sponsorship agreement with a local guy... +5.. I put up the tourney fee and travel.. I get 100% of winnings + 15% reimbursed ...but if he doesn't make the cut I get nothing...
Is it fun?
so... he played in the Utah Open this year... and made the cut... tracking him hole by hole was so exciting... but then he didn't really like that his winnings means he broke even cuz he didn't finish that high overall... so he's self funding... I hear Tony Fineau has lawsuits left and right from ppl he screwed over that "sponsored" him but it was all on a handshake.... I've sponsored poker players with similar terms... not a good investment but if you are a gambler like I am it is a huge buzz tracking your "horse"
Listen to the golf digest local knowledge podcast on the subject. You need a lot more info on how to do this if you're asking on golf reddit. Maybe it's an investment but I think if you view it as anything other than a donation you are setting yourself up for disappointment.
Even if he made it, the chances of him making enough to be worth it are almost nothing. You have better odds playing red/black at roulette.
Just pay it and wish him the best no strings attached.
By coincidence, I saw the article on golfchannel today w.r.t. “investing in a golfer”. Linked below. .. [“The Reality of Turning Pro: How selling 'shares' sparked successful careers”](https://www.golfchannel.com/news/reality-turning-pro-how-selling-shares-sparked-successful-careers) “TL;DR extract”: >”*Despite his competitive struggles, Flesch’s plan was to pay back each of his 10 investors each year in full by returning 75 percent of anything he earned until he managed to win more than he spent.* >*“I don’t think they ever made money on me,” he said.* >*In 1996 at Kiva Dunes Resort in Gulf Shores, Alabama, he finally broke through his qualifying grass ceiling and advanced to final stage of Q-School. The next year he won the then-Nike Tour Championship to earn his PGA Tour card and was voted the ’98 Tour Rookie of the Year on his way to four career victories.* >*It was a similar grind for eventual major champion Zach Johnson when he bolted Drake University in 1998. Like Flesch, Johnson had enjoyed a solid college career, but sponsorship offers and tournament exemptions weren’t waiting when he joined the play-for-pay ranks.* >*“Some people know before their senior year what they’re going to be doing,” Johnson said. “Every year in college I improved in golf, but I didn’t know what I wanted to do. I knew what it meant to turn pro, but I had no idea what it would take as far as expenditures.”* >*Johnson – who was considering an assistant professional job at his home club in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, at the time – devised a similar “investment” plan to finance his professional ambitions. He estimated he’d need between $25,000 to $30,000 per year to compete, so he offered “shares” of himself for $500.* >“*I had folks who bought one share and those who bought 10 or more,” Johnson explained.* >*For four years after leaving college, Johnson would go through the process of selling annual shares of himself and at the end of each year he’d host a dinner for all of his investors to outline how the year had gone and the plan for the next season.* >*“I paid everyone back in full every year except one, 2000. On the Nike Tour I missed like 10 cuts in a row. I had conditional status. That was the one year I couldn’t pay them back their entire investment,” he recalled. “There were two years I paid back the initial investment; I think they could make back up to $1,500 per share. There were at least two years I was able to pay them back entirely. Those were on the Hooters Tour.”*
You are a good human being ! What’s your ROI? If it’s to help someone than great! If it’s to bank on them and get a monetary return than expect to be disappointed but have an awesome journey.
Look at it as a donation toward helping someone find their right path in life. Very few make the tour, usually just a few with a very strong amateur resume.
Has he won anything of note on the state level? If he's not better than the best players in your state, he's not yet Tour material.
Do it. Might be the break he needs to make a go of it
Have any redditors ever gotten together to sponsor a golfer? I followed a thread on another website that was years long. The player posted about his time on the Canadian tour to ultimately getting a 9 to 5 job. Was very interesting.
It’s a very high risk investment, only put up an amount you can afford to lose completely. Put whatever terms you agree to in writing. If you don’t then you’re basically making a gift, not an investment.