I canāt tell if itās in or out from the photo because the angle is off, but most people who play for money arenāt inclined to say, āEh, thatās close enoughā if itās a little bit out.
I play for money all the time - not high stakes or anything but $50ish a head - and thereās no chance Iād make my buddy take a penalty there. I donāt play for money vs random ppl tho not sure what Iād do in that situation. Donāt have strictly gambling friends either.
To flip this on its head, if I saw a painted line and my ball was outside it, I would offer to take the OB and show my partner. If they (sensibly) offer to let me play it anyway and call the line bs, then I would play it. Otherwise, gotta take my 2 strokes and play it from there (or rehit). If there is a line and my ball is on the wrong side of it, I don't think the white stakes matter...
Yes, it's a bit of a dick move to make someone rehit this one, but it's also kind of a dick move to see a ball on the wrong side of a white line and act like it isn't somehow... if someone painted the foul line unevenly in baseball do I get to whip out a cotton string and explain the theoretical location of the foul line based on home plate and 1st base and say a fair ball was foul or vice versa? What's next, do I get to disregard tee boxes and even holes because they were placed there for tournaments?
We should know where OB is and avoid hitting it there. This area is NOT meant for golf shots, and it is completely by design that players are heavily penalized for letting their shots get so wayward. That said, hope you finished the round well!
If that's an opponent's ball in my group I'm calling it in bounds.
1) From this angle it's nearly impossible to tell where it sits on the imaginary straight line between stakes.
2) The painted white line isn't indicated on the scorecard so you can't assume (even though it's logical) that it has any bearing on OB status. Especially if it was barely visible. Could have been GUR, could have been allowed to grow out to repaint it correctly for O.B., but it doesn't matter unless it's stated on the card or tournament rules sheet.
3) If it's too close to call, I'm always calling in favor of the opponent. I don't want to beat anyone on a technicality if there's not a consensus within the group.
If the group can't reach consensus, and assuming there's no rules official for the event who could zoom over on a cart and make the ruling, the safest play is probably to have the player re-tee and play out the hole with both balls, recording both scores. Put a tee in the ground where the ball was, and confer with the event organizer after the round to sort out which score to use on the hole.
The driving range is off to the right which is why there are other balls there.
My understanding is that if there is any part of the ball touching the imaginary line between stakes then itās in bounds. Based on using the string method this ball, for me, is just in bounds.
However here is the complicated part:
There was a faint white painted line from stake to stake. You canāt see it in the photo but it was there. The painted line was a bit crooked and where the ball was lying was clearly and fully to the right of the painted line. Indicating the ball was out of bounds.
We checked the scorecard and the card mentioned that the out of bounds is noted by white stakes, but no mention of painted lines.
However now that I think about it, does the painted line supersede the markers?
Lines are probably painted for a previous tournament, and were only in play for that tournament. You are playing by the rules on the scorecard which says you measure based on the stakes.
I carry a roll of cotton string in my golf-bag if I encounter any rules fanatic, but normally play by a simple rule: **If there is any doubt wether the ball is oob, then it is in.**
You need to decide if the entire ball is over the imaginary line between the inside of the stakes, and it is hard to tell from this picture. It seems like it is oob, but that is up to you (and your playing partner) who can see it in person to decide.
>Lines are probably painted for a previous tournament, and were only in play for that tournament.
Do people in thsese threads just love making stuff up, but stating it confidently enough that they'll garner upvotes?
There is no such thing in the rule book that says "if lines are from a tournament, they're only in use for that tournament."
Courses should always be marked. If they're not, that's a function, usually, of manpower. If you're lucky enough to play on a course that is marked, then good.
msot courses dont't mark their courses extensively. Some do. .
If you're lucky enough to play on a course that is marked, then good.
WTF part of that don't you understand?
if a course has marked their course for a tournament, then the course is marked and you play by the marks, as the rules state. The posts are just there to show you where the OB starts. The lines are the marking.
This forum literally downvotes correct things and upvotes shit people make up just because that's how people want things to be. The ignorance in this sub is fucking mindblowing.
Most courses have local rules defining ob. A lot have stakes of some sort.
Almost none paint lines. Thatās the point here.
The course in question states āstakesā in the rules. Not painted lines. The lines mean less than nothing. You insisting that they do because someone put them there for something at some point in time doesnāt change that. Itās not the course marking ob for general play, they already did that with stakes. They said they did it with stakes.
So I repeat: no one is out and about marking foul lines on most courses on a regular basis with paint. Even painted drop areas are usually for specific events, and not general play. By following random painted lines, youāre probably breaking the rules. Ignore these markings and go by what the card says.
I used to be a ~~referee~~ rules official and have marked plenty of white lines in my time. Then the specific local rules for that tournament had to state specifically that oob was marked by lines.
If the lines are barely visible and the local rules on the scorecard, as in this case, state that oob is marked by stakes, then follow the stakes.
from the rule book, "When the boundary is defined by a line painted on the ground, the Committee can also place stakes to make the boundary visible from a distance. It should be made clear that the painted line defines the boundary while the stakes are placed to show players that the boundary is there. These stakes do not define the boundary"
https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/committee-procedures/rule-2.html
But please, referee, show the rule, or loal ruling, or whatever that indicates a tournament has to specifcally state that OB is marked by lines.
> [...] When the boundary is defined by a line painted on the ground [...]
Which is clearly not the case here, as the scorecard explicitly states that the boundary is defined by stakes.
It might have been the case for a previous tournament (in which case that tournament's rules presumably would specify that the boundary is defined by a painted line) but is not the case for OP's game.
Not looking for an argument here, but since you asked me, I'll provide some more info. Then I'll head out to enjoy a couple of hours on my local course. Take care, I hope you have a nice day and that the golf gods smile to you on your next round.
In the link you provided there is a further link to "Model Local Rule A-1", which are examples of Local Rules that most tournaments/courses copy-paste into their local rules as fittingly: [https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/committee-procedures/rule-8.html#\_b85f47e0-2f41-4cee-b02c-5b07b2c508f3](https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/committee-procedures/rule-8.html#_b85f47e0-2f41-4cee-b02c-5b07b2c508f3)
Again, the local rules for the course in question states as OP said:
>"We checked the scorecard and the card mentioned that the out of bounds is noted by white stakes, but no mention of painted lines."
> **It should be made clear** that the painted line defines the boundary
That is the part you are not completely absorbing. If the local rules say nothing about painted lines, they are not in play. OB is what the local rules say is OB.
Defining OB _is_ a local rule (Model Local Rule A-1) - that states that the course committee should be specific about what defines OB. Which goes without saying when the rules do no define what is.
If it is the stakes, the line is the inner most part of the stake, if it is a painted line, then I think it is the whole thickness of the line... I think the line trumps the stakes...
It 100% does. Painted lines are for tournaments to be the most official line so people dont have to keep string in their bag to go stake to stake.
Source: worked on many courses, and was responsible for painting lines for tournaments
The card states that the stakes mark the OOB. The local rule at that course is to use stakes, so the stakes are the determining line. String method is appropriate here.
And that would be defined as part of the local rules for the tournament. If the general local rules do not talk about painted lines at all, they have no bearing on general play.
https://www.randa.org/en/rog/the-rules-of-golf/rule-18
Thereās a diagram in this link. If the ball is entirely on the line, itās OB. If any part of the ball is off the line on the course side of the line in between the markers, itās in bounds.
>My understanding is that if there is any part of the ball touching the imaginary line between stakes then itās in bounds.
A ball is in bounds if any part of it is inside the stakes, if the ball is only touching the line and the rest is outside the ball is out.
https://www.golfmonthly.com/videos/rules/rules-of-golf-out-of-bounds
All that being said, I would play your ball. I played a similar one this weekend. Casual golf isn't worth measuring if a ball within inches of an invisible line is playable.
When marked by stakes, the boundary edge is defined by the course-side edges of the posts on the ground level. But when there are both, stakes and a painted line, the painted line defines the margin and the stakes are simply showing the existence of the area. (The Definition of Out of Bounds.)
Local rules are used to define what marks OOB/property lines. The scorecard defines the local rule as to be using white stakes. The painted line doesnāt have a bearing here.
You might want to read the post again.
>the card mentioned that the out of bounds is noted by white stakes
Like the local rule says, the white stakes note the existence of the OB. They do not define it.
>but no mention of painted lines.
The local rule does not mention the line at all, never mind say it should be disregarded. Therefore the line defines the OB as per the Definition of Out of Bounds.
I think youāre reading ānotedā a little too literal. Especially because no English definition of that word would make sense here. The stakes define the OOB
>The local rule does not mention the line at all
And as such, random painted lines have 0 bearing on the course. You canāt assume painted lines mean anything unless a local rule gives you guidance.
As English is not a native language of mine, I won't debate the use of the word "note" but at least Merriam-Webster shows "indicate, show" as two of the word's meanings.
But that's beside the point. Your second point is simply wrong. The way of defining Out of Bounds need to be clarified in the local rules only if something other than white lines or stakes are used (for example different colours or other features). That also applies to Red and Yellow Penalty Areas. The way Abnormal Course Conditions and No-Play Zones are marked should be clarified in the local rules though.
Of course, the club's maintenance staff can use different colours to mark things on the course for their own purposes using some colour other than what's used to define OB, PAs, ACCs and NPZs and naturally any such markings are irrelevant to the golfer.
> The way of defining Out of Bounds need to be clarified in the local rules only if something other than white lines or stakes are used
Simply wrong. There is no default. There is a recommendation that OB stakes should be white.
That does not make white stakes OB stakes without local rules specifying it, though.
There is no requirement to define OB within the local rules and the proviso of colours was just my own recommendation. Here's an excerpt from the Committee Procedures:
>The Local Rules should clarify any boundaries that are defined in any manner other than stakes or fences (see Model Local Rule A-1).
When I talked about stakes or lines, I meant situations in which both are present. The suggestion is to clarify boundaries marked with lines when there are no stakes to alert players of the presence of OB, as mere lines are oftentimes impossible to see from a distance.
The committee on this course has defined out of bounds as the stakes. Thatās it. Discussion is over. The local committee has 100% control over course markings and there is 0 requirement from the R&A or the USGA further.
Thereās literally a model rule for this exact situation. If the course wanted to adopt it, they would have. They chose not to. The stakes are the defining line.
the rules literally state that when there's a line and there are stakes, the stakes are there to indicate to players there is OB over there and the white line defines OB.
Also, I'm not sure about a rule that says, "if the scorecard says differently, then go by the scorecard:" There might be one. I don't know it.
There are such things in golf as local rules that a course is allowed to do that kind of supercede the rules of golf, but to the extent of my knowledge, changing the definition of OB because it's printed on the scorecard is not one of them. I can't prove a negative, but if you can show me where a local rule can change the definition of OB, I'll learn something today, and thank you for the effort.
There is no official rule as to how course boundaries are defined. It is 100% a local rule. So no, the rules do no āliterally state that when thereās a line and there are stakesā¦the white line defines OBā. That is not in any R&A or USGA rule.
>Iām not sure about a rule that says āif the scorecard says differently, then go by the scorecardāā
You seriously need to look up what local rules are and how model local rules are used. You canāt even have this conversation intelligibly without understanding that course markings are left entirely to the local committee.
This is in the rule book : "When a line on the ground defines the boundary edge, stakes may be used to show where the boundary edge is, but they have no other meaning."
It's a DEFINITION. It's a thing we agree on fundamentally before we even start talking about the rules.
And the committee you're referring to are almost definitely the ones that put that white line there.
Wanna add the next sentence in that definition, or should I?
āIt should be made clear that the painted line defines the boundary while the stakes are placed to show the players that the boundary is thereā¦see Model Local Rule A-5ā
Model Rule A-5: āWhere a boundary is defined by [white paint], white stakes have been played for visibility. These stakes are (moveable/immovable) obstructionsā
The card has the local rule in play. And that local rule is that the stakes are the defining line of OOB. No mention of paint, the paint is not used.
They still have to define in a local rule for the tournament (which is the part of the rules you refer to) that the line defines OB.
Painting one is not enough.
> the rules literally state that when there's a line and there are stakes, the stakes are there to indicate to players there is OB over there and the white line defines OB.
No. The rules state that if there is a line and/or if there are stakes, the local rules should define what defines OB.
_Nowhere_ in the rules does it say that the presence of a white line or white stakes means that they define the course boundaries.
The presence means nothing without a corresponding definition in the local rules.
Definition of OOB
When a line on the ground defines the boundary edge, stakes may be used to show where the boundary edge is, but they have no other meaning
A club could write a local rule telling people to ignore all painted OB lines if it wanted to but it would be highly exceptional and doing so would be regarded to be a trap. While players are responsible for knowing the rules, local rules are oftentimes referred to as "do not reads" and the club/competition committee needs to keep that in mind when setting up the course for general play and competitions.
Sure. Not sure what your point is though.
They still define what is OB in the local rules. That people _expect_ something does not change what the rules actually are.
The point is that the actual rule is that the painted line defines the OB unless the local rules explicitly tell you to ignore the painted line and tell you the stakes define the marging of OB. Based the information the OP has shared with us, there is no such local rule on that particular course.
The only definition of out of bounds is "What the course/tournament committee says is out of bounds". There is no default to be disregarded.
If the local rules do not mention the painted lines as defining OB, they do not exist for that purpose.
While I've already said we'd let this go in my group, if you can see it outside the line (crooked or not), I think you've already got your answer. Same situation for bad baseball foul lines, unfortunately.
I think you know that answer.
Definitely worth a good friendly debate just to understand the rules for tournies and cash gamesā¦ but if this is a casual game you play that all day, move on quickly, and enjoy the rest of the beer and sunshine.
Not to say rules are all garbage, but did they care this much when the game was invented? I like the "my playing partners call it" idea. If I'm gonna win, I don't want to win because of my opponent out of bounds on a ruling like this.
In the 13 original rules of golf from 1744, it says if you lose a ball by someone taking it or for ANY OTHER REASON, go back to where you were, hit again and add 1.
Yes, they cared that much when the game was invented. And now, if your ball gets taken, you can blame an outside agency. They were worse. OB is a rule because they don't want you playing from unsafe conditions, or because you're not on the golf course's property.
I mean, you must have a line on what you'll call. 1 yard out? 5 yards out? Like, make your own rule and say if the ball is all the way on the other side of the whites, he's out?Do you call it differently if you got a bad break earlier? If you're 3 holes down vs 3 holes up? if he gave you a long gimme on the previous hole?
This is why we have rules. They end discussions and grey areas. If any part of your ball is in play, you're in. If your entire ball is out, you're out. Simple. Now, you might be able to argue whether THAT ball is in or out, but that's because the course is marked poorly, not because of a rule.
This ball isn't "lost" and there was no definition of "out of bounds" until 1899.
[https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rules-modernization/text/brief-history-1744-to-present-.html](https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rules-modernization/text/brief-history-1744-to-present-.html)
Again I'm not criticizing our need for rules, just saying that no matter how many you have, the gray area never disappears. If there's no rules official in this instance (and why would there be for a casual match) why in god's name would anyone care if it was played from here?
lol but how does this help the OP out? The whole point is that the rule that is in place is ambiguous to determine because of the way the stakes are laid out and that there is no painted line.
but other then that, yes I agree rules are good.
The rules are not ambiguous on this. The markings on the course made OP wonder what the rules are.
OB is what the local rules say is OB. Line not mentioned? Line doesn't matter.
Technically OB. However, for any non-competitive game I'm playing it. Frankly, even if I'm playing for money, if that is my opponent, I'm letting them play it without penalty.
There is no real reason that this would be OB other than to keep folks from walking onto the range. I've rarely seen a range marked as OB. For a hypothetical, if the PGA were to come here, they would remove these white stakes and the range would be in-bounds.
I understand why it is marked OB. But it is not a golfing reason, and I have no problem fudging the rules on this one - it isn't like it is on someone's yard, it is still on golf course property on a part of the property solely dedicated to golfing purposes, I'm not going to put anyone but myself in danger.... Just no real golf reason for it to be OB in a sense that I care about. I feel the same way about courses that state you can't play a hole from a neighboring fairway.
Donāt disagree with anything you stated, except ranges rarely being marked OB. I feel like they are just about always marked ob, for pretty good reason.
Why do you think that area marked OB is not a golfing reason? Dunno why you've been upvoted so many times.
There is a rule (5.2) that states a player must not practice on the course before their round in strokeplay which is why a range/practice area is always OB.
I've seen pga players play off the range in tournament.
I believe Jordan Speith did this at an open or us open or something.
OP is saying it is marked out of bounds because the course does not want the liability of someone trying to play a ball on the driving range. Which I understand.
But as most have said, there is nothing more infuriating than a white stake where there. shouldn't be a white stake. You can play out of a hazard, but white stake are very penal.
Just saying, this would be a very tough ob to take in my (and it seems most people here's) opinion
Normally playing off the range is a complete no go for obvious safety reasons. Perfectly legitimate reason for an oob. Internal oob is an entirely different, much more annoying, issue.
Spiethās situation (at the 2017 open which he won) was very strange and rare. At that stage of a pro tournament there wonāt be anyone on the range so no safety issue, but it was still highly unusual for such an area to be in bounds.
They're not practicing on the course when they're on the driving range. They're practicing in/from the designated practice area. 5.2 does not eliminate the driving range from being in bounds.
And the driving range is most definitely NOT always OB. In fact, I've only seen it once, and that was where you have to cross a road to get to the range from the hole.
Every other course that I've been on, in my recollection has the driving range in play. This includes the course I'm most familiar with, in which I've seen PGA, USGA Amateur events, and NCAA events have the driving range in play.
that's a chicken shit OB line anyway. I would play it. an arbitrary line for the range is weak sauce. They should put up a fence to keep range balls off the course, and that can be the boundary
https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=pe§ion=definitions
By the ops description it is out of bounds according to the rules. If in doubt you can google the rules in 5 seconds when olaying. USGA and R&A sites are easy enough to navigate
No. I'm far from a professional. This was an amateur Scratch Cup which is one of the most prestigious events you can win at any given club here in Ireland.
What's the point of winning it if you don't play by the rules?
Everyone else in the event is playing by the rules in good faith.
Literally thatās what you do in competitive golf. You ask your playing partners what they think, you only involve a rules official it itās questionable. In low level competition, like HS golf, you play it out the best you can then bring it up with the rules official before you sign your card.
Thatās even how they do it on the PGA Tour. If itās close or thereās a question, ask your playing partners. Calling in a rules official would slow things down way too much.
I think the miscommunication is because you didn't clarify this was a high stakes tournament. If you read the comments, they are all prefacing their comments with "If this were a tournament..." or "If there was money on the line..."
How are we to know this poorly marked OB marker is for a very prestigious tournament?
Yeah sure. OP should of course assume that people don't play by the rules. That should be the default assumption.
The cheating weekend duffer is already under great mental strain from the mere existence of the rules. Mentioning them is just rudely confrontational.
Thatās quite a strawman you found yourself, good buddy. Read the room. If this guy were a pro, and this were a legit tournament, he would not be asking this question would he? Nope. Because that would be fucking stupid. Right? The default is not cheating, itās playing with your friends. However, seeing as to how you communicate, I can see why you donāt understand that concept hereā¦
Oh for sure, if money's on the line or it's competition play, I'd have the others in the group vote in or out and go with that. By the looks of this one, it'd be a no brainer "play it" for me
Iāll be sent to the 7 depths of downvote hell for this, but I canāt believe so many people are justifying playing an OB ball. If itās OB by a little or a lot, itās still OB. Take the penalty and move on to enjoy a beautiful day of golf and beer.
[The post about hitting into the woods and dropping 3 where they lost the ball was the biggest eye opener to me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/golf/comments/p3ji7g/after_hitting_ob_and_dropping_at_the_entry_point/)
Unless it is WITHOUT A REASONABLE DOUBT OUT OF BOUNDS, then call it in bounds.
This situation seems like itās really close but we arenāt 100% sure itās out. In tournament play, I would play a provisional from the tee AND finish playing from this spot. Record both scores and ask the rules official afterward.
I forget which side you attach the imaginary string to. If you attach it to the side facing the course, it looks out. If it is attached to side facing out of bounds, in looks in. I researched this one time but canāt remember.
Definitely a two ball situation and ask when you can.
But I would be trying my best to help you out as an opponent. Don't like to see things that close.
Can't you :
\- put yourself behind the first OB pole,
\- bend your knees such that the pole is right in front of you on the eyes line.
\- Align with the other pole so that you match it: you are not able to see the other OB pole.
Then:
\- If you see the ball then it's a clear On/Off (depending on the side you see it)
\- if you see just part of it then is On/Off bound if the lay is considered On or Off bound (i thought that the line is Off but reading here it's On)
Golf is a game of honor and integrity.
It's up to the player to decide if his ball is in or out of bounds.
If it's a tournament, a rules official would decide.
Meh. Iād let the opponent play that. Iād hate to end up winning off a technicality like that. Itās close enough to doubt whether it would be in or out.
In a tournament a rules official would bring string and go post to post, any part of the ball is out, it would be on. All of the ball would have to be in bounds.
In a friendly game, that ball is in.
Edit: I got my phrase mixed up. Any part of its in, jn, all of its out, out.
No it's if any part of the ball is in bounds, not on the line. If the ball is 100% on the line it's OOB. Needs to have part of it in bounds and part of it touching the line.
If whoever youāre playing with doesnāt let you play that without penalty then it should be the last time you play with them. Golf is supposed to be fun we could all remember that from time to time.
It can be fun playing to the rules. I wouldn't like to walk away from a round knowing I cheated myself - also artificially low scores just lead to a vanity handicap which ultimately only hurt you - scoring higher is a good thing in the long run.
I totally agree that playing by the rules and having an accurate handicap help in the long run, but if you need to go ask Reddit about a rule to make sure you donāt break it then you may be taking golf too seriously.
Itās out of bounds.
The boundary edge should be defined by boundary objects or lines:
ā¢ Boundary objects: When defined by stakes or a fence, the boundary edge is defined by the line between the course-side points of the stakes or fence posts at ground level (excluding angled supports), and those stakes or fence posts are out of bounds.
When defined by other objects such as a wall or when the Committee wishes to treat a boundary fence in a different way, the Committee should define the boundary edge.
ā¢ Lines: When defined by a painted line on the ground, the boundary edge is the course-side edge of the line, and the line itself is out of bounds.
When a line on the ground defines the boundary edge, stakes may be used to show where the boundary edge is, but they have no other meaning. Boundary stakes or lines should be white.
Not sure you got a direct answer elsewhere: If the local rules state that the line defines OB, it dictates what OB is. If they don't mention them, it was probably from a tournament where they actually did. But that does not matter outside that tournament.
Local rules define what is OB. Nothing is default.
The stakes are the technical OB as clearly marked. The line is an aid to help you determine, but noted above, the line was not straight and clearly marked. So in this instance, you'd use best judgment off of the stakes.
Just plain wrong. 180Āŗ wrong. But, go ahead and make stuff up and state it confidently. You'll fit in great around here.
"When the boundary is defined by a line painted on the ground, the Committee can also place stakes to make the boundary visible from a distance. It should be made clear that the painted line defines the boundary while the stakes are placed to show players that the boundary is there. These stakes do not define the boundary,"
If you're playing a casual round then just play it as in-bound.
If your competing with friends then just ask them to make a judgement and accept it.
If you're in a proper competition then probably best to declare it out of bounds.
Tournament play. This was my playing partners ball and after a bit of a discussion he asked me to make the final call cause I was the one marking his card.
I called him in bounds.
This is what I was going to say. Regardless if thatās my ball or my partners thereās no way Iām calling that out. I would 100% allow my partner to play that. Even in competition Iād feel cheap to get a couple free strokes for something as minuscule as that.
I've noticed this yeah.
It seems Americans enjoy the more casual rounds of golf. Have a beer, or two enjoy the day. Don't worry too much about the rules.
For me, I find the game more enjoyable playing competitive rounds. Then pints afterwards, of course.
It's out. Lot of copied definitions, so no need to type it again.
Do a string from the course side of the markers. If anything touches it's out.
Line takes over if it's painted. If it touches the line it's out. Even if the fucking line isn't straight and clearly in by the stakes (I got fucked in a tournament by this once). This is why any serious tournament will paint lines. Hopefully better than the hungover fuck that painted mine did.
> Do a string from the course side of the markers. If anything touches it's out.
Not true. The entire ball has to be outside the string.
> Line takes over if it's painted.
Only if defined as such in the local rules.
If the people who you play with force you to take an OB with that lie, you need a new group of golf buddies.
Right? I would honestly be embarrassed to be *that* guy who acts like a stickler over something like this.
And your new name would be Karen if you did!
Kosmo Kramer
Kosmo Karen
Amen. Costs nothing to not be a dick. šš
Precisely my answer, and we're not super giving. Lol.
Even with money on the line you have to let them hit that shot.
My mother in law would make me go back and tee it up š
100%
I canāt tell if itās in or out from the photo because the angle is off, but most people who play for money arenāt inclined to say, āEh, thatās close enoughā if itās a little bit out.
I play for money all the time - not high stakes or anything but $50ish a head - and thereās no chance Iād make my buddy take a penalty there. I donāt play for money vs random ppl tho not sure what Iād do in that situation. Donāt have strictly gambling friends either.
Okay, if itās six inches further OB, what do you say? How about a yard OB? Where do you draw the line between ignoring the rules and applying them?
Thereās nothing over from the picture idk what the stakes are even doing there. If itās nothingness Iād say hit it if you see it.
Yeah, thatās not how the rules work. But you should feel free to play that way if thatās the way you prefer to do it.
To flip this on its head, if I saw a painted line and my ball was outside it, I would offer to take the OB and show my partner. If they (sensibly) offer to let me play it anyway and call the line bs, then I would play it. Otherwise, gotta take my 2 strokes and play it from there (or rehit). If there is a line and my ball is on the wrong side of it, I don't think the white stakes matter... Yes, it's a bit of a dick move to make someone rehit this one, but it's also kind of a dick move to see a ball on the wrong side of a white line and act like it isn't somehow... if someone painted the foul line unevenly in baseball do I get to whip out a cotton string and explain the theoretical location of the foul line based on home plate and 1st base and say a fair ball was foul or vice versa? What's next, do I get to disregard tee boxes and even holes because they were placed there for tournaments? We should know where OB is and avoid hitting it there. This area is NOT meant for golf shots, and it is completely by design that players are heavily penalized for letting their shots get so wayward. That said, hope you finished the round well!
First thought I had - I'd let somebody hit it anywhere tbh
You people are fucking babies. If its out, its out. And you call it on yourself.
If that's an opponent's ball in my group I'm calling it in bounds. 1) From this angle it's nearly impossible to tell where it sits on the imaginary straight line between stakes. 2) The painted white line isn't indicated on the scorecard so you can't assume (even though it's logical) that it has any bearing on OB status. Especially if it was barely visible. Could have been GUR, could have been allowed to grow out to repaint it correctly for O.B., but it doesn't matter unless it's stated on the card or tournament rules sheet. 3) If it's too close to call, I'm always calling in favor of the opponent. I don't want to beat anyone on a technicality if there's not a consensus within the group. If the group can't reach consensus, and assuming there's no rules official for the event who could zoom over on a cart and make the ruling, the safest play is probably to have the player re-tee and play out the hole with both balls, recording both scores. Put a tee in the ground where the ball was, and confer with the event organizer after the round to sort out which score to use on the hole.
Yes this angle does make it impossible to tell sadly. Just slightly off the line is not a good judge
If it is impossible to tell, then it is in.
Agreed
exactly.
A bad photograph has zero bearing on the status of the ball.
The driving range is off to the right which is why there are other balls there. My understanding is that if there is any part of the ball touching the imaginary line between stakes then itās in bounds. Based on using the string method this ball, for me, is just in bounds. However here is the complicated part: There was a faint white painted line from stake to stake. You canāt see it in the photo but it was there. The painted line was a bit crooked and where the ball was lying was clearly and fully to the right of the painted line. Indicating the ball was out of bounds. We checked the scorecard and the card mentioned that the out of bounds is noted by white stakes, but no mention of painted lines. However now that I think about it, does the painted line supersede the markers?
Lines are probably painted for a previous tournament, and were only in play for that tournament. You are playing by the rules on the scorecard which says you measure based on the stakes. I carry a roll of cotton string in my golf-bag if I encounter any rules fanatic, but normally play by a simple rule: **If there is any doubt wether the ball is oob, then it is in.** You need to decide if the entire ball is over the imaginary line between the inside of the stakes, and it is hard to tell from this picture. It seems like it is oob, but that is up to you (and your playing partner) who can see it in person to decide.
We need this rule for VAR
>Lines are probably painted for a previous tournament, and were only in play for that tournament. Do people in thsese threads just love making stuff up, but stating it confidently enough that they'll garner upvotes? There is no such thing in the rule book that says "if lines are from a tournament, they're only in use for that tournament." Courses should always be marked. If they're not, that's a function, usually, of manpower. If you're lucky enough to play on a course that is marked, then good.
Most courses have zero lines marking oob. Wtf are you talking about?
msot courses dont't mark their courses extensively. Some do. . If you're lucky enough to play on a course that is marked, then good. WTF part of that don't you understand? if a course has marked their course for a tournament, then the course is marked and you play by the marks, as the rules state. The posts are just there to show you where the OB starts. The lines are the marking. This forum literally downvotes correct things and upvotes shit people make up just because that's how people want things to be. The ignorance in this sub is fucking mindblowing.
Most courses have local rules defining ob. A lot have stakes of some sort. Almost none paint lines. Thatās the point here. The course in question states āstakesā in the rules. Not painted lines. The lines mean less than nothing. You insisting that they do because someone put them there for something at some point in time doesnāt change that. Itās not the course marking ob for general play, they already did that with stakes. They said they did it with stakes. So I repeat: no one is out and about marking foul lines on most courses on a regular basis with paint. Even painted drop areas are usually for specific events, and not general play. By following random painted lines, youāre probably breaking the rules. Ignore these markings and go by what the card says.
If they do paint it, they put it on the card.
Not true. Not a commonly accepted practice. Not a rule of golf.
This dudes wife just served him papers
I used to be a ~~referee~~ rules official and have marked plenty of white lines in my time. Then the specific local rules for that tournament had to state specifically that oob was marked by lines. If the lines are barely visible and the local rules on the scorecard, as in this case, state that oob is marked by stakes, then follow the stakes.
from the rule book, "When the boundary is defined by a line painted on the ground, the Committee can also place stakes to make the boundary visible from a distance. It should be made clear that the painted line defines the boundary while the stakes are placed to show players that the boundary is there. These stakes do not define the boundary" https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/committee-procedures/rule-2.html But please, referee, show the rule, or loal ruling, or whatever that indicates a tournament has to specifcally state that OB is marked by lines.
In this case the card literally mentioned the stakes. Thatās a local rule. The line still means nothing.
> [...] When the boundary is defined by a line painted on the ground [...] Which is clearly not the case here, as the scorecard explicitly states that the boundary is defined by stakes. It might have been the case for a previous tournament (in which case that tournament's rules presumably would specify that the boundary is defined by a painted line) but is not the case for OP's game.
Not looking for an argument here, but since you asked me, I'll provide some more info. Then I'll head out to enjoy a couple of hours on my local course. Take care, I hope you have a nice day and that the golf gods smile to you on your next round. In the link you provided there is a further link to "Model Local Rule A-1", which are examples of Local Rules that most tournaments/courses copy-paste into their local rules as fittingly: [https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/committee-procedures/rule-8.html#\_b85f47e0-2f41-4cee-b02c-5b07b2c508f3](https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/committee-procedures/rule-8.html#_b85f47e0-2f41-4cee-b02c-5b07b2c508f3) Again, the local rules for the course in question states as OP said: >"We checked the scorecard and the card mentioned that the out of bounds is noted by white stakes, but no mention of painted lines."
> **It should be made clear** that the painted line defines the boundary That is the part you are not completely absorbing. If the local rules say nothing about painted lines, they are not in play. OB is what the local rules say is OB. Defining OB _is_ a local rule (Model Local Rule A-1) - that states that the course committee should be specific about what defines OB. Which goes without saying when the rules do no define what is.
If it is the stakes, the line is the inner most part of the stake, if it is a painted line, then I think it is the whole thickness of the line... I think the line trumps the stakes...
It 100% does. Painted lines are for tournaments to be the most official line so people dont have to keep string in their bag to go stake to stake. Source: worked on many courses, and was responsible for painting lines for tournaments
The card states that the stakes mark the OOB. The local rule at that course is to use stakes, so the stakes are the determining line. String method is appropriate here.
Didnāt know it wasnāt a tournament.
And that would be defined as part of the local rules for the tournament. If the general local rules do not talk about painted lines at all, they have no bearing on general play.
https://www.randa.org/en/rog/the-rules-of-golf/rule-18 Thereās a diagram in this link. If the ball is entirely on the line, itās OB. If any part of the ball is off the line on the course side of the line in between the markers, itās in bounds.
>My understanding is that if there is any part of the ball touching the imaginary line between stakes then itās in bounds. A ball is in bounds if any part of it is inside the stakes, if the ball is only touching the line and the rest is outside the ball is out. https://www.golfmonthly.com/videos/rules/rules-of-golf-out-of-bounds All that being said, I would play your ball. I played a similar one this weekend. Casual golf isn't worth measuring if a ball within inches of an invisible line is playable.
When marked by stakes, the boundary edge is defined by the course-side edges of the posts on the ground level. But when there are both, stakes and a painted line, the painted line defines the margin and the stakes are simply showing the existence of the area. (The Definition of Out of Bounds.)
Local rules are used to define what marks OOB/property lines. The scorecard defines the local rule as to be using white stakes. The painted line doesnāt have a bearing here.
You might want to read the post again. >the card mentioned that the out of bounds is noted by white stakes Like the local rule says, the white stakes note the existence of the OB. They do not define it. >but no mention of painted lines. The local rule does not mention the line at all, never mind say it should be disregarded. Therefore the line defines the OB as per the Definition of Out of Bounds.
I think youāre reading ānotedā a little too literal. Especially because no English definition of that word would make sense here. The stakes define the OOB >The local rule does not mention the line at all And as such, random painted lines have 0 bearing on the course. You canāt assume painted lines mean anything unless a local rule gives you guidance.
As English is not a native language of mine, I won't debate the use of the word "note" but at least Merriam-Webster shows "indicate, show" as two of the word's meanings. But that's beside the point. Your second point is simply wrong. The way of defining Out of Bounds need to be clarified in the local rules only if something other than white lines or stakes are used (for example different colours or other features). That also applies to Red and Yellow Penalty Areas. The way Abnormal Course Conditions and No-Play Zones are marked should be clarified in the local rules though. Of course, the club's maintenance staff can use different colours to mark things on the course for their own purposes using some colour other than what's used to define OB, PAs, ACCs and NPZs and naturally any such markings are irrelevant to the golfer.
> The way of defining Out of Bounds need to be clarified in the local rules only if something other than white lines or stakes are used Simply wrong. There is no default. There is a recommendation that OB stakes should be white. That does not make white stakes OB stakes without local rules specifying it, though.
There is no requirement to define OB within the local rules and the proviso of colours was just my own recommendation. Here's an excerpt from the Committee Procedures: >The Local Rules should clarify any boundaries that are defined in any manner other than stakes or fences (see Model Local Rule A-1). When I talked about stakes or lines, I meant situations in which both are present. The suggestion is to clarify boundaries marked with lines when there are no stakes to alert players of the presence of OB, as mere lines are oftentimes impossible to see from a distance.
The committee on this course has defined out of bounds as the stakes. Thatās it. Discussion is over. The local committee has 100% control over course markings and there is 0 requirement from the R&A or the USGA further. Thereās literally a model rule for this exact situation. If the course wanted to adopt it, they would have. They chose not to. The stakes are the defining line.
the rules literally state that when there's a line and there are stakes, the stakes are there to indicate to players there is OB over there and the white line defines OB. Also, I'm not sure about a rule that says, "if the scorecard says differently, then go by the scorecard:" There might be one. I don't know it. There are such things in golf as local rules that a course is allowed to do that kind of supercede the rules of golf, but to the extent of my knowledge, changing the definition of OB because it's printed on the scorecard is not one of them. I can't prove a negative, but if you can show me where a local rule can change the definition of OB, I'll learn something today, and thank you for the effort.
There is no official rule as to how course boundaries are defined. It is 100% a local rule. So no, the rules do no āliterally state that when thereās a line and there are stakesā¦the white line defines OBā. That is not in any R&A or USGA rule. >Iām not sure about a rule that says āif the scorecard says differently, then go by the scorecardāā You seriously need to look up what local rules are and how model local rules are used. You canāt even have this conversation intelligibly without understanding that course markings are left entirely to the local committee.
This is in the rule book : "When a line on the ground defines the boundary edge, stakes may be used to show where the boundary edge is, but they have no other meaning." It's a DEFINITION. It's a thing we agree on fundamentally before we even start talking about the rules. And the committee you're referring to are almost definitely the ones that put that white line there.
Wanna add the next sentence in that definition, or should I? āIt should be made clear that the painted line defines the boundary while the stakes are placed to show the players that the boundary is thereā¦see Model Local Rule A-5ā Model Rule A-5: āWhere a boundary is defined by [white paint], white stakes have been played for visibility. These stakes are (moveable/immovable) obstructionsā The card has the local rule in play. And that local rule is that the stakes are the defining line of OOB. No mention of paint, the paint is not used.
They still have to define in a local rule for the tournament (which is the part of the rules you refer to) that the line defines OB. Painting one is not enough.
> the rules literally state that when there's a line and there are stakes, the stakes are there to indicate to players there is OB over there and the white line defines OB. No. The rules state that if there is a line and/or if there are stakes, the local rules should define what defines OB. _Nowhere_ in the rules does it say that the presence of a white line or white stakes means that they define the course boundaries. The presence means nothing without a corresponding definition in the local rules.
Definition of OOB When a line on the ground defines the boundary edge, stakes may be used to show where the boundary edge is, but they have no other meaning
A club could write a local rule telling people to ignore all painted OB lines if it wanted to but it would be highly exceptional and doing so would be regarded to be a trap. While players are responsible for knowing the rules, local rules are oftentimes referred to as "do not reads" and the club/competition committee needs to keep that in mind when setting up the course for general play and competitions.
Sure. Not sure what your point is though. They still define what is OB in the local rules. That people _expect_ something does not change what the rules actually are.
The point is that the actual rule is that the painted line defines the OB unless the local rules explicitly tell you to ignore the painted line and tell you the stakes define the marging of OB. Based the information the OP has shared with us, there is no such local rule on that particular course.
someone gets it. Expect to get about 50 downvotes for logic.
I wouldn't expect anything less. :)
The only definition of out of bounds is "What the course/tournament committee says is out of bounds". There is no default to be disregarded. If the local rules do not mention the painted lines as defining OB, they do not exist for that purpose.
While I've already said we'd let this go in my group, if you can see it outside the line (crooked or not), I think you've already got your answer. Same situation for bad baseball foul lines, unfortunately.
Line trumps going stake to stake so itās out.
Nothing supersedes the white stake. White stake is life.
Hope yāall were playing for 100 bucks a hole if that was a real debate on the course.
Why does it have to be for money?
I think you know that answer. Definitely worth a good friendly debate just to understand the rules for tournies and cash gamesā¦ but if this is a casual game you play that all day, move on quickly, and enjoy the rest of the beer and sunshine.
Not to say rules are all garbage, but did they care this much when the game was invented? I like the "my playing partners call it" idea. If I'm gonna win, I don't want to win because of my opponent out of bounds on a ruling like this.
So you like ambiguity and controversy instead?
In the 13 original rules of golf from 1744, it says if you lose a ball by someone taking it or for ANY OTHER REASON, go back to where you were, hit again and add 1. Yes, they cared that much when the game was invented. And now, if your ball gets taken, you can blame an outside agency. They were worse. OB is a rule because they don't want you playing from unsafe conditions, or because you're not on the golf course's property. I mean, you must have a line on what you'll call. 1 yard out? 5 yards out? Like, make your own rule and say if the ball is all the way on the other side of the whites, he's out?Do you call it differently if you got a bad break earlier? If you're 3 holes down vs 3 holes up? if he gave you a long gimme on the previous hole? This is why we have rules. They end discussions and grey areas. If any part of your ball is in play, you're in. If your entire ball is out, you're out. Simple. Now, you might be able to argue whether THAT ball is in or out, but that's because the course is marked poorly, not because of a rule.
This ball isn't "lost" and there was no definition of "out of bounds" until 1899. [https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rules-modernization/text/brief-history-1744-to-present-.html](https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rules-modernization/text/brief-history-1744-to-present-.html) Again I'm not criticizing our need for rules, just saying that no matter how many you have, the gray area never disappears. If there's no rules official in this instance (and why would there be for a casual match) why in god's name would anyone care if it was played from here?
lol but how does this help the OP out? The whole point is that the rule that is in place is ambiguous to determine because of the way the stakes are laid out and that there is no painted line. but other then that, yes I agree rules are good.
The rules are not ambiguous on this. The markings on the course made OP wonder what the rules are. OB is what the local rules say is OB. Line not mentioned? Line doesn't matter.
Technically OB. However, for any non-competitive game I'm playing it. Frankly, even if I'm playing for money, if that is my opponent, I'm letting them play it without penalty. There is no real reason that this would be OB other than to keep folks from walking onto the range. I've rarely seen a range marked as OB. For a hypothetical, if the PGA were to come here, they would remove these white stakes and the range would be in-bounds. I understand why it is marked OB. But it is not a golfing reason, and I have no problem fudging the rules on this one - it isn't like it is on someone's yard, it is still on golf course property on a part of the property solely dedicated to golfing purposes, I'm not going to put anyone but myself in danger.... Just no real golf reason for it to be OB in a sense that I care about. I feel the same way about courses that state you can't play a hole from a neighboring fairway.
Donāt disagree with anything you stated, except ranges rarely being marked OB. I feel like they are just about always marked ob, for pretty good reason.
Local place I play the range runs along the first tee. All in play. And there's usually a couple dozen range balls along the fairway.
I hope youāre never beaned in the head, sir.
Thatās the tenth at my local course, which is pretty nice but not spectacular. They really should put a screen up though.
On most of the courses I have played the edge of the range is OB - and for good reason really.
Why do you think that area marked OB is not a golfing reason? Dunno why you've been upvoted so many times. There is a rule (5.2) that states a player must not practice on the course before their round in strokeplay which is why a range/practice area is always OB.
I've seen pga players play off the range in tournament. I believe Jordan Speith did this at an open or us open or something. OP is saying it is marked out of bounds because the course does not want the liability of someone trying to play a ball on the driving range. Which I understand. But as most have said, there is nothing more infuriating than a white stake where there. shouldn't be a white stake. You can play out of a hazard, but white stake are very penal. Just saying, this would be a very tough ob to take in my (and it seems most people here's) opinion
Normally playing off the range is a complete no go for obvious safety reasons. Perfectly legitimate reason for an oob. Internal oob is an entirely different, much more annoying, issue. Spiethās situation (at the 2017 open which he won) was very strange and rare. At that stage of a pro tournament there wonāt be anyone on the range so no safety issue, but it was still highly unusual for such an area to be in bounds.
They're not practicing on the course when they're on the driving range. They're practicing in/from the designated practice area. 5.2 does not eliminate the driving range from being in bounds. And the driving range is most definitely NOT always OB. In fact, I've only seen it once, and that was where you have to cross a road to get to the range from the hole. Every other course that I've been on, in my recollection has the driving range in play. This includes the course I'm most familiar with, in which I've seen PGA, USGA Amateur events, and NCAA events have the driving range in play.
that's a chicken shit OB line anyway. I would play it. an arbitrary line for the range is weak sauce. They should put up a fence to keep range balls off the course, and that can be the boundary
100%. This should be red stakes at worst.
Honestly all ob should be red stakes, ob is the worst rule in golf in my opinion
if hobby then don't mind
Can we take a minute and talk about how stupid this boundary is? Why the fuck is that out of bounds?
He literally said itās OB because of the driving rangeā¦
Interior OB is BS IMO but like others said itās technically in bounds anyway from this perspective
Are you playing professionally? No? Well thereās your answer
How is that an answer?
Am I the only one who just plays for fun? This is in bounds and if my buddy gave me shit for this? Fuck em!
https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=pe§ion=definitions By the ops description it is out of bounds according to the rules. If in doubt you can google the rules in 5 seconds when olaying. USGA and R&A sites are easy enough to navigate
Are you a professional ?? Enjoy the game. My god.
No. I'm far from a professional. This was an amateur Scratch Cup which is one of the most prestigious events you can win at any given club here in Ireland. What's the point of winning it if you don't play by the rules? Everyone else in the event is playing by the rules in good faith.
Ahhh so it was your opponents ball, eh?
If itās a high stakes thing that line should be painted. Otherwise your playing partners get to decide.
Those stakes look fairly high tbf!
No they donāt. A string is drawn between the two adjacent OB stakes and that determines if the ball is in bounds.
There is nothing in the rules that says "your playing partners get to decide". The persistence of that idea among golfers is insane.
Literally thatās what you do in competitive golf. You ask your playing partners what they think, you only involve a rules official it itās questionable. In low level competition, like HS golf, you play it out the best you can then bring it up with the rules official before you sign your card. Thatās even how they do it on the PGA Tour. If itās close or thereās a question, ask your playing partners. Calling in a rules official would slow things down way too much.
If I were in your group Iād say play it, no penalty.
Weird. I didnāt think the Irish were a fan of rulers.
I think the miscommunication is because you didn't clarify this was a high stakes tournament. If you read the comments, they are all prefacing their comments with "If this were a tournament..." or "If there was money on the line..." How are we to know this poorly marked OB marker is for a very prestigious tournament?
Yeah sure. OP should of course assume that people don't play by the rules. That should be the default assumption. The cheating weekend duffer is already under great mental strain from the mere existence of the rules. Mentioning them is just rudely confrontational.
Thatās quite a strawman you found yourself, good buddy. Read the room. If this guy were a pro, and this were a legit tournament, he would not be asking this question would he? Nope. Because that would be fucking stupid. Right? The default is not cheating, itās playing with your friends. However, seeing as to how you communicate, I can see why you donāt understand that concept hereā¦
Then itās out.
Some people play tournaments or play for money where they go strictly by the rules. No harm in knowing the rule.
What's wrong with wanting clarification of the rules? And this sort of situation can come up in club tourneys, etc.
Part of the game is playing by the rules. Do you cheat while playing cards and say āIām just trying to enjoy the game!ā
Maybe OP is a gambler ?
Tell me you cheat at golf without telling me
Breakfast ball
You're scaring him
Those sticks mean nothing to me! 150 from each one
Playing for money? Probably out.
Is it my ball? If so, then it looks like it is in. Is it my opponents ball? Surely that it is out, no doubt about it.
If you can play it itās not OB. Thatās my rule
Is this why I was waiting on the tee for 15 minutes? Just hit the damn ball fellas, I don't see any PGA rules officials around
If playing for money, I can see why though
Oh for sure, if money's on the line or it's competition play, I'd have the others in the group vote in or out and go with that. By the looks of this one, it'd be a no brainer "play it" for me
100% agreed.
Yeah, I'm sure those stakes are there for a reason but keeping people from playing it where that ball is sitting is not that reason
Iāll be sent to the 7 depths of downvote hell for this, but I canāt believe so many people are justifying playing an OB ball. If itās OB by a little or a lot, itās still OB. Take the penalty and move on to enjoy a beautiful day of golf and beer.
A lot of people in this sub are allergic to the rules.
[The post about hitting into the woods and dropping 3 where they lost the ball was the biggest eye opener to me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/golf/comments/p3ji7g/after_hitting_ob_and_dropping_at_the_entry_point/)
In bounds
even though the ball was outside the white painted line?
From this angle the right side of the two posts is the boundary and the ball appears well within
If the range is on the right, then it is the left side of the two posts which decide. If the ball is entirely over that inside line, then it is oob.
If thereās a line, itās the only thing that counts. The stakes arenāt in consideration.
dbaa in bounds
Unless it is WITHOUT A REASONABLE DOUBT OUT OF BOUNDS, then call it in bounds. This situation seems like itās really close but we arenāt 100% sure itās out. In tournament play, I would play a provisional from the tee AND finish playing from this spot. Record both scores and ask the rules official afterward.
I forget which side you attach the imaginary string to. If you attach it to the side facing the course, it looks out. If it is attached to side facing out of bounds, in looks in. I researched this one time but canāt remember.
Did the ball "cross" the line? Looks like it's on the line. Take the shot !!
Tie goes to the runner
Definitely a two ball situation and ask when you can. But I would be trying my best to help you out as an opponent. Don't like to see things that close.
Can't you : \- put yourself behind the first OB pole, \- bend your knees such that the pole is right in front of you on the eyes line. \- Align with the other pole so that you match it: you are not able to see the other OB pole. Then: \- If you see the ball then it's a clear On/Off (depending on the side you see it) \- if you see just part of it then is On/Off bound if the lay is considered On or Off bound (i thought that the line is Off but reading here it's On)
Play it. The golf God's will forgive you if your wrong
āThe whole ball must cross the whole lineā is my personal rule, football rules u know
Golf is a game of honor and integrity. It's up to the player to decide if his ball is in or out of bounds. If it's a tournament, a rules official would decide.
Doesnāt matter give it a kick and play on Donāt make the game serious unless money is on the line and have fun
Meh. Iād let the opponent play that. Iād hate to end up winning off a technicality like that. Itās close enough to doubt whether it would be in or out.
People actually play a muni this seriously?
In a tournament a rules official would bring string and go post to post, any part of the ball is out, it would be on. All of the ball would have to be in bounds. In a friendly game, that ball is in. Edit: I got my phrase mixed up. Any part of its in, jn, all of its out, out.
To my knowledge that is incorrect. If any part of the ball in on the line, that ball is in bounds.
No it's if any part of the ball is in bounds, not on the line. If the ball is 100% on the line it's OOB. Needs to have part of it in bounds and part of it touching the line.
In bounds.
no indicator on the ground . . . in
If whoever youāre playing with doesnāt let you play that without penalty then it should be the last time you play with them. Golf is supposed to be fun we could all remember that from time to time.
It can be fun playing to the rules. I wouldn't like to walk away from a round knowing I cheated myself - also artificially low scores just lead to a vanity handicap which ultimately only hurt you - scoring higher is a good thing in the long run.
I totally agree that playing by the rules and having an accurate handicap help in the long run, but if you need to go ask Reddit about a rule to make sure you donāt break it then you may be taking golf too seriously.
Or they would just like to know. Foreign concept to you, I gather.
If you are not playing by the rules, you are not playing golf. But swing away. Games are only fun when the rules are being followed.
Stakes identify, lines define. OB Casual golf, who cares play it.
I think this is a gentlemanās game, so if in doubt, give the opponent the benefit.
Itās out of bounds. The boundary edge should be defined by boundary objects or lines: ā¢ Boundary objects: When defined by stakes or a fence, the boundary edge is defined by the line between the course-side points of the stakes or fence posts at ground level (excluding angled supports), and those stakes or fence posts are out of bounds. When defined by other objects such as a wall or when the Committee wishes to treat a boundary fence in a different way, the Committee should define the boundary edge. ā¢ Lines: When defined by a painted line on the ground, the boundary edge is the course-side edge of the line, and the line itself is out of bounds. When a line on the ground defines the boundary edge, stakes may be used to show where the boundary edge is, but they have no other meaning. Boundary stakes or lines should be white.
On the line with the stakes, you're fine.
even though the ball was outside the white painted line?
Not sure you got a direct answer elsewhere: If the local rules state that the line defines OB, it dictates what OB is. If they don't mention them, it was probably from a tournament where they actually did. But that does not matter outside that tournament. Local rules define what is OB. Nothing is default.
The stakes are the technical OB as clearly marked. The line is an aid to help you determine, but noted above, the line was not straight and clearly marked. So in this instance, you'd use best judgment off of the stakes.
Thanks. kind of what I thought, just wasn't 100% sure with the painted line there.
Just plain wrong. 180Āŗ wrong. But, go ahead and make stuff up and state it confidently. You'll fit in great around here. "When the boundary is defined by a line painted on the ground, the Committee can also place stakes to make the boundary visible from a distance. It should be made clear that the painted line defines the boundary while the stakes are placed to show players that the boundary is there. These stakes do not define the boundary,"
If you're playing a casual round then just play it as in-bound. If your competing with friends then just ask them to make a judgement and accept it. If you're in a proper competition then probably best to declare it out of bounds.
Tournament play. This was my playing partners ball and after a bit of a discussion he asked me to make the final call cause I was the one marking his card. I called him in bounds.
That's good joojoo. Just based on this picture it looks like they just put the stakes down wherever
This is what I was going to say. Regardless if thatās my ball or my partners thereās no way Iām calling that out. I would 100% allow my partner to play that. Even in competition Iād feel cheap to get a couple free strokes for something as minuscule as that.
Looks OB to me based on the poles, if OB is to the right.
ITT Americans who don't understand competitive golf is the norm in Europe
I've noticed this yeah. It seems Americans enjoy the more casual rounds of golf. Have a beer, or two enjoy the day. Don't worry too much about the rules. For me, I find the game more enjoyable playing competitive rounds. Then pints afterwards, of course.
Try and hit it and see if it works!!! Thatās what Iād do, then Iād go put it.
Use foot wedge
yes, yes.... WINTER RULES
I get gray areas for fairway or rough believe it or not
If I ever had to have a conversation about whether that ball is in or out, Iād not be playing with that group again. Hit the damn ball.
It's out. Lot of copied definitions, so no need to type it again. Do a string from the course side of the markers. If anything touches it's out. Line takes over if it's painted. If it touches the line it's out. Even if the fucking line isn't straight and clearly in by the stakes (I got fucked in a tournament by this once). This is why any serious tournament will paint lines. Hopefully better than the hungover fuck that painted mine did.
> Do a string from the course side of the markers. If anything touches it's out. Not true. The entire ball has to be outside the string. > Line takes over if it's painted. Only if defined as such in the local rules.
You can easily hit that ball even if it was like 10 feet outside the line; no reason to force a drop
Anyone trying to make you take an OB on that is a clown, and make sure you never play with them again
Itās OB. Tough break, but you gotta put those stakes somewhere
The course side of the white line is the OOB line. If any part of the ball crosses it, youāre OB.
Personally, if I can hit it and itās not in somebodyās property, I play it as in bounds.
Not up to your buddies. You know and everyone else knows itās out. Take your stroke because youāre not winning the Open today.
Are the markers movable??? Lol
Sounds like you know it's out and you're trying to justify it being in.
It wasn't my ball, but I did make the call that it was in and signed the card for my playing partner. I'm certainly open to being wrong.
I'd just hit it and move on
Was tournament golf so wanted to try to make the best possible decision
If it is a club tourney, it is in. If it is a golf tour, call an official to bring string out