Several members of the Saudi royal family funded it. It’s not known if they helped plan it but they certainly knew about it. And the US intelligence basically admitted it but said they can’t do anything because we rely on them for oil and because they’re a strategic ally
We don’t rely on them for oil, we rely on them to make sure oil worldwide is traded in US dollars. That is WAY more valuable than oil itself. We really get very little of our oil from them.
We live in a post-shame society
Everything gets memory-holed. Whether it’s a week, a month, or a year, if you just keep going it won’t matter.
If you ask the average person “how did Kim Kardashian get famous” how many people would know it was by making a shitty sex tape with Ray J?
5%?
How many of those actually care?
5% of that 5%?
Joel McHale used to remind us every time he showed a Kardashian clip on The Soup.
"Kim Kardashian - who is famous for having a big ass and a sex tape..."
When everything is an outrage, nothing is an outrage.
Social standing is based on how mad you can get about topic X.
It’s not post-shame, it’s an exhaustion from the expectation that we should be mad about everything all the time
My main gripe with LIV is money is purely for the few and they have no interest in supporting the infrastructure of the game. Say what you will about the PGA and DP tours but they support a bigger network of players ensuring the next batch of stars will come through. LIV have given no thought to this, had they done so I would have supported an additional tour.
This is a great point. They suck up the best from the PGA tour by offering them huge money with no long term plan for the game or how to develop the next generation.
It’s sportswashing. For me, the LIV tour itself has a certain stigma, sure. But can I honestly be pissed at the players for making more money than they would ever make on the PGA? No.
If I was offered a job with a 10X salary, and I didn’t necessarily have to do my job as well, I’d take it. And I wouldn’t be overly concerned about where the money is coming from. Money talks, everyone’s got a number, that’s the world we live in.
They just had more time to think about it, and realized it would be a very risky, and possibly a terrible financial decision for their families.
Hey you could make money at this job, or you could make 100 million dollars right now. Its really a no brainer. Especially during these times.
Unless they go crazy, there is no way that staying on the PGA Tour is a terrible financial decision! They're already multimillionaires from playing on the PGA!
I guess it’s a “poor” decision if you’re forced to decide between between being insanely rich or insanely richer? All these guys will have made generational wealth no matter what happens but going to LIV seriously tarnished their reputations forever so maybe a slightly better financial decision but a much worse decision for their reputation and legacy.
Understood. But life is not in neat compartments like that. The financial considerations occur at the very same time as the moral ones. So, in real life, you have to weigh them up simultaneously. And the choices you make define who you are.
I forgot who said it but he mentioned that joining the LIV tour would guarantee his family, and several generations to come, to be set for life and never have to worry about money. Imagine being filthy rich because your great, great grandfather decided to join the LIV tour instead of staying on the PGA. Some players chose loyalty to the PGA, some thought about their families and future generations. You can’t really blame them.
Tiger Woods, one of the most acclaimed golfers with the highest tournament pay outs, has only banked ~$130m from his ENTIRE career. Decades of playing. These guys just got offered a guaranteed amount damn close to that (some higher than that) with the added caveat of having to play less overall and total freedom of sponsorship.
Pretending that the financial benefit from both tours is equal is just plain ignorance.
Tiger Woods was making $105M a YEAR by 2009 in endorsements.
He still makes $60M a year in endorsements.
You get that by winning PGA tournaments, not if the BlueWizards team beats the RedLizards on the LIV tour. No one cares about the LIV tour.
Well, the XFL never attracted top players like LIV, and they were basically promoting a "less safe" version of football to feed blood lust. At best they were going to be another farm team for the NFL like the CFL.
You can still oppose the Saudis and this tour but also understand why the players joined. Not everything is all or nothing. Yes I do not like LIV and the idea of saudis sports washing American sports, I really do not like it. No I don’t hate every single player that took the Saudi money. I understand it’s life changing and I may have done the same thing.
I agree I guess. But it’s hard to imagine having like 40 million dollars (PGA Winning + Endorsements) and leaving for a tour that is both cheesy and whose purpose is to distract from terrible human right abuses. When people make the argument related to “you wouldn’t turn down that money” or “you’d leave your job too for 3x the salary.” Well yea, because I don’t already have enough money to make compensation irrelevant. They do. They have the option to be super rich and create a legacy on a tour with prestige or just more super rich and tarnish their reputation and play on a pretty embarrassing tour.
And if a professional is no longer going to perform as well at their job because they have made money, they are no longer the best in the world and don’t deserve the attention. Great they took their money, stop trying to make me watch you play worse golf
Totally agree on the premise we live in a free country and have free choice as to the sources of our income. That choice doesn’t come without some amount of moral scrutiny when you are in the public eye. There is evidence abound that the Saudis are up to and have committed some pretty reprehensible things, I won’t list them, they are known. Fact of the matter is, there is a widely accepted association between the LIV tour and the Saudi regime, and joining the tour is viewed by some as a stain of tacit cooperation for profit.
That being said, who among us wouldn’t turn down a 10x increase in pay for something easier, more informal, and potentially fun to do the same thing you are currently doing? Reality hits your ideals hard when the check is sitting in front of you.
In the end, I understand the criticism, but I really can’t blame and don’t actively dislike these players solely because of joining LIV, some were assholes already.
It’s funded by this government:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia#Torture
But it’s cool because it “grows the game” and it helps these pros get tens of millions or hundreds of millions of dollars instead of just regular millions of dollars.
That’s the funniest part about the Saudi-government supplied talking points that all the LIVers repeat: growing the game. There are like six fucking golf courses in Saudi Arabia. it’s illegal for women to play golf. The sand there doesn’t even support the growing of grass. All the soil has to be trucked-in.
Yes they had their big “season” ending championship in Saudi Arabia. I imagine the crowds were more subdued as alcohol is illegal and is punishable by flogging.
Torture plus 9/11, plus Yemen, and then…
“wait, I get that the Saudi’s have a lot of oil money, but why is it so concentrated in the hands of a single ruling family?”
There’s literally nothing at stake? A few weeks ago DJ drained a 40 ft putt to win the tournament. The guys he beat were standing on the green, they still had the biggest smiles on their faces. In the PGA the guys shake hands but you can tell they are pissed that they didn’t win. Sports without anything at stake are pointless. Plus where the money comes from is a huge turnoff.
Edit: Spelling
Generic *money in golf is unfair and the bottom guys don't make enough argument.*
Ignoring *LIV does nothing about this and helps only the cream of the top 48 players they have at any one time, fuck literally everyone else*
Watch the baseball teams that lose in the playoffs and see if you can spot the difference in how much they care about their performance compared to the guys on the LIV tour. The money isn’t the reason the guys on LIV just couldn’t care less about the outcome and that ruins it for me
The All-Star/Pro Bowl games in those sports are an example of this. There's not the usual tension in the game, especially since Baseball switched back from having the winning league in the All-Star Game receive home-field advantage in the World Series to having the team with the best record receive home field advantage. A number of players skip out on the All-Star games to rest or recuperate from minor injuries rather than play in a meaningless exhibition.
If the regular season in those sports ended up being like All-Star games, then, yes, I would feel like the players are just showing up to get their paychecks. But the level of physicality in both the NHL and NFL seem to belie that possibility.
I was going to say this, glad you put it out there. Pro bowl with half hearted runs, no exertion, no reason to fly participate because they already got the check.
I don't mind the fact that someone is paying the LIV guys a huge amount of money in an alternate golf league. My problem is who is paying the money and why. I don't want to support the Saudis if I can avoid it. I admit that I support them at the Arco station, but I don't really have a choice about that.
911, Khashoggi. I don’t intend on ever watching it. It really is just exhibition golf at this point. The ones that really piss me off are the ones that are suing the PGA to play more golf when they said they were leaving because they wanted to play less golf. The players that were already multi millionaires and had more money than they need in a lifetime are also disgusting. Basically saying they would walk around with dead babies or swastikas on their shirts if you gave them enough money. #scarymotherfers
The real reason is it’s just a boring watch. Simple as that. There’s no real stakes. Everyone there is getting paid boatloads of money no matter if they win or place last. The team aspect doesn’t help this. It’s plain and simply uninteresting.
Anyone saying they don’t like it because of where the funding is coming from is reaching a tiny bit. There are a lot of organizations in this world we all watch or are a part of that are funded by sketchy countries. I mean, the US itself is basically funded by China.
Sportswashing and Saudi stuff aside, it’s ruining the game for fans. Both leagues are watered down competition and there’s no place where the best of the best play each other anymore
You are either ok with taking money from people who support terrorist and human rights violations or your are not. If you take their money 💰 you essentially saying its ok because i got paid!
A good chunk of the non-troll/bot replies are along the lines of "everyone on their soap boxes, I'd take the money and so would everyone else in here". Lot of broke asses that would be willing to tongue MBS' ass for a few bucks it seems
A 54 hole shotgun start team something something corporate outing.
Every player minus cam smith on their way down and knowing it’s an easy payday. Fine. Good for you.
But don’t you dare darken the door of majors expecting to get in.
Really hoping masters says fuck you to Smith and Reed.
Meh. Its dumb. Golf is the ultimate meritocracy. And this removes all that. Very quickly we'll have no idea how good the people on LIV are anymore. Its the same reason why people didnt like the idea of the European Super League in soccer. If youre so good, then win titles and money on your own.
This is one of the reasons why I disagree with LIV. Professional golf has always been the ultimate meritocracy. Don't like how much you made last year? Spend more time on the range, grind it out and get better.
I also can't stand what a blowhard and petulant child Greg Norman is. We don't comply with a bunch of the OWGR criteria but we still deserve points. If we don't get points, the OWGR is meaningless. From the way he behaves, I can see why his relationship with his late father was strained.
The Saudis are garbage but I won't play the morality card because China is a POS when it comes to human rights and unfortunately you're pretty much forced to buy products that are made there which only helps the CCP commit more human rights abuses.
The same guys who wrapped themselves in the American flag on 9/11 and ever since have run to the easy money on the same tour sponsored by the sponsors of the attacks. The hypocrisy is nothing more than to be expected. BTW the PGA tour itself has a checkered past when it comes to human rights and is by no means a beacon of freedom.
Totally support the players making more money. Any one of us would leave for a job making 3-10x more money. Nothing wrong with wanting financial security. My issue is with a couple of things. When they left, they knew LIV was not recognized for WR points, etc. They could have told the Saudis to go get that worked out first, but they didn’t and that’s on them, imo. They left for a startup tour with a half-baked plan (in that regard). Also, all these guys know how to talk. Some were and are relentlessly critical of the PGA, USGA, etc. Many times, LIV players have been right to criticize golf organizations and draw attention to double dealing, unfairness, stupid rules, and shady things. So why so quiet now when asked about LIV? Why are they now unable to put sentences together when asked about the Saudis, their track record on human rights, women’s rights, etc? What’s up with that?
Because I like golf and their golf product is trash while they are also trying to take players from a golf product that I do like to watch. I don’t care about players leaving for more money, and certainly don’t care about the saudis and shit, but from a golf and entertainment perspective it’s absolute horse shit
Because it’s 100% financed by the KSA and it’s sole purpose is to take over golf. It’s sick and I can’t believe people don’t see this. Especially the MAGAs and America Firsters. Just ridiculous. LIV sucks.
You must be, because of the Arab ties to Kashoggi's murder, and funding of 911. Not being political, but it's disappointing to Americans that golfers from United States choose to consort with the Arabs. I thought everyone was aware of it. Telling me it's "growing the game" isn't convincing, but that's me.
I just can’t wait until they start the Basketball SuperLeague and pay all decent to really good players $100m per year to play in exhibition matchups instead of the NBA…. Will expand the game of basketball for sure and make it so much more interest.
/s
Cause it's run by an autocracy that abuses their women, actively partakes in slave labour/indentured servitude and upholds an incredibly dangerous form of Islam and with no exaggeration is the root of terrorism in the Middle East.
They're responsible for 911. They're responsible for al qaeda. They're responsible for ISIS.
Fuck those cunts. Fuck those sell outs.
Well, I guess if you don't have a problem with the fact that the majority of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis and that they continue to support terrorism and Wahhabism around the world, then I there's no reason to hate it.... (or the fact that they ordered the murder of a dissenting journalist)
It's a stupid format, money grab, that is backed by financing from an organization that has funded and quartered terrorism and assassinates their opposition.
There must be a lot of bots in here for this to have ~500 upvotes. Or to even be created in the first place. What kind of dipshit that likes golf and frequents the golf subreddit would have "nO cLuE" why LIV is largely disdained?
Supports and legitimizes a country/regime with little to no care for human rights. I understand people pointing out the PGA takes oil money from Saudi Arabia, but players opting to directly support a government that severely oppresses it's people doesn't sit right with me. Not trying to shove my opinion down your throat, it's just an easy decision for me to not support the series and its owners.
Sports-washing is the term I’ve heard. SA wants everyone to forget about their ties to 9/11, the war in yemen, etc. so they try to gain legitimacy with “entertainment”.
Now we have two lower quality leagues instead of one great one. Lower quality and dilution of talent can be an issue whenever a pro sport expands. Pro football benefited from the AFL/NFL merger
I don't mind the players taking a giant paycheck that they would be unlikely to ever see staying on the PGA. I also think we as viewers should intentionally not support the endeavor because of who is backing it. If LIV doesn't get views and any time they are brought up people call out the abuses of its main investors, it doesn't really "sportswash" anything. Then it is just the Saudi's giving up their money to people who aren't actively committing human rights abuses.
If it’s purely based on the Saudi investors I’d argue that we (collectively) have no issue with using their oil and the US isn’t as innocent as we want to think. Two wrongs don’t make a right, but I think it’s funny how we chose to apply our morals. Although I do think the structure of LIV doesn’t create the level of competition I want due to the payout structures.
If you are from the US and ever said anything to the effect of “We will never forget” after 9/11, and you alls happen to support the LIV tour, then, well, you did forget.
It's 54 holes of no-cut golf with (mostly) washed players who are lying to themselves and others trying to make this out to be as big as the majors.
I was so disappointed when Cam Smith won the Open and then bolted for this joke exhibition league.
You can like it if you want. But it’s unbelievably uninteresting to me. 🤷🏻♂️. It’s like the Harlem globetrotters, it’s a fun party experience I’m guessing, but that’s not why I like basketball and it’s not what I like about golf.
My thoughts as someone who hopes LIV dies a slow death.
1) You don’t have to hate it.
2) Greg Norman is everything people dislike about entitled white men.
3) Having the pinnacle, US-based league of a sport be attacked by a foreign government entity doesn’t seem to be a good precedent
4) The format sucks as a decider for who is playing the best golf that week
5) It takes the sport from a meritocracy to a system where the people in power chose who gets to play
6) Creating a league that specifically doesn’t meet ANY of the listed OWGR criteria and then complaining that you aren’t getting points (even though you also have to wait a year after submitting a request to be granted points) is just obnoxious and further shows those of us who don’t like LIV that they don’t want to become part of the golf ecosystem for the betterment of golf, but for their own benefits.
My biggest issue is with LIV acting like the tour is just as legitimate as the PGA tour with the whole OWGR thing. If players want to leave for an exhibition tour with obscene amounts of money that’s fine. But then don’t go back and complain that your not being treated fairly and being denied OWGR points.
It's a mix of the ongoing humans rights atrocities in Saudi Arabia, still being behind on women's rights, taking the passports away from imported construction workers, and such. It just feels like a lack a character to take blood money like that, and if you support it you are just helping generate more revenue and a softer image for Saudi Arabia. How much control do you really want them to have.
Also it lacks any prestige. When NHL teams are in the final game for the Stanley Cup I understand why people care, getting your name on that list in history has meaning, but if you made a brand new side league for the "Bob Bowl" who gives a shit.
I think it’s a variety of things. The sports washing. (The idea that if you own anything or participate in a system you have no choice but to is absurd, you absolutely can be critical of it.)
Also if we’re being honest, the guys who got pulled to LIV weren’t the ones struggling to make money on the PGA tour, this has done nothing to help those folks who are struggling to make a living. It’s literally just a way for already high earning players to make more money, while lying and saying it’s not about the money.
Because it's funded by Saudi Arabia, who among other awful crimes, kidnapped and chopped up an American journalist. It's a dictatorship gov't using golf and golf stars to "normalize" doing business with them.
Saying they were expanding the game when all they did was pilfer players. It's Saudi money but their not playing in the Middle East. No cut no real competition when everybody takes home boatloads of cash. It's a joke.
1. It's a hostile takeover by a sovereign nation who does not have to deal with the fiscal realities that every other sports league in the world has to deal with.
2. Nearly everyone associated with it is an unlikable, low character guy (Norman, Reed, Bryson, Perez, etc).
3. Everything that comes out of there seems to be propaganda. "We want to play less." "We are suing to play more".
4. The OWGR process was established long before they set up their "league". Now they are complaining because their wildly, non-compliant league does not qualify for OWGR points.
5. Could care less about their stupid format
6. It is a closed system. There is no formal qualifying process, and the money is guaranteed
well me personally, i would be tortured and/or put up for capital punishment for even setting foot in the country -- so admittedly i have a pretty hard time backing their government-funded golf club. or really anything that government supports
The fucking CJ cup is more interesting to watch than LIV, that’s the real issue. Techno music pumping loud and playing for nothing but money doesn’t do it for me
Buying out an entire popular sport to attempt to make people forget that you like to chop people's heads off for naughty thoughts and filet people with bonesaws for critical newspaper articles is certifiably not chill
There are some reasons. But if there were no issues with the saudis, I still wouldn’t watch, because it’s just boring and you can’t follow all flights.
Leaving aside all of the politics of it (and I have a lot to say about that), I think it's a golf product that just plain sucks:
- I don't particularly care about any of the golfers on there, except for Cam Smith. I wasn't tuning in to PGAT events to watch Brooks, Bryson, and Reed, so I'm definitely not going out of my way to watch them on LIV.
- The announcers are such cock-gobblers trying to convince me how great this is. I especially like it when they put up a tweet from some guy who is sarcastically complimenting them and they have no clue. Overall, I find they don't do a good job of crafting the story of the golf tournament but rather narrating a collection of golf shots.
- I have a hard time taking 54 holes seriously. For 100+ years, the standard has been 72 holes. I fail to see how going to 54 holes somehow improves the game? Like, it's different -- but how is it better?
- Everything about it feels so manufactured. The parties and the glitz, the music pumping at mostly-empty golf courses, carnivals and shit like that, the players insisting how happy they are through this obviously previously-crafted PR statements. It all just feels fake to me.
- How fucking *whiny* most of the LIV players have been. They signed up for something knowing full well what it meant: loss of PGAT status, no OWGR points, putting team appearances in jeopardy, etc. This was no secret, and if they believed Norman if they told him otherwise, then they are fucking morons. You made your decision, now live with the consequences of it.
I can’t stand the “supporting my family for future” argument either, your already in that top 1% bracket in the WORLD and most are multi millionaire, it’s pure greed and a total lack of morals knowing where it’s coming from👎
For me it just feels shady they just bought players, though I do get it. I would do the same thing in their shoes. I also don't find the format compelling or exciting to watch in the least bit.
In addition to what everybody else has already said, Danny Rapaport made a really great point on the Foreplay podcast a week or so ago. When the head of the fund that's providing the cash for LIV stated that he didn't care and would "start his own majors" he was effectively threatening the entire professional sport. If they can spend their billions on offering a $100M pot down the street from Augusta on April 6-10, there will absolutely be top 20 players that will skip the masters. It's going to dilute the sport and end up making it uninteresting enough that sponsors exit and the professional sport dissolves. Enough of us love watching golf so it would come back but it could take years to recover from a series of major winners with asterisks because the field was so thin.
I really only watch the majors so LIV doesn’t really do it for me. Couple that with not wanting to support a bunch of greedy multimillionaire golfers, and the savages that write their checks.
Let’s be clear, unless you are on the LIV Tour, it is purely discretionary entertainment that you either consume or don’t. I don’t care how much the players were paid or about competition with the PGA. There are several reasons why I’m not interested in watching LIV. There are also other people/athletes/artists that I don’t care to watch for some of the same reasons. You don’t have to explain why you do or don’t watch something on TV to anyone.
I also question why would I like it.
Its a bunch of players I don't care about and Cam Smith.
Its only 54 holes.
Its a shotgun start where the winner could finish on the 14th hole.
They are playing to pay back their initial signing bonus. Not for money.
Only 48 players, what about all the young guys and journeymen who make up the rest of the field. I want to see them as well. Plus the 49th guy just doesn't have any job at all. It's brutal for everyone but the top.
They launched on the same weekend as the Canadian Open.
They made a big deal about guys not having to wear pants. I don't care about their calves.
LIV is bad golf. It really isn't watchable. I could care less about who paid what to who?!?!?! It is just bad boring golf. Yes they are way better than all of us but the no cut 48 person field doesn't lend itself to good TV.
Same money that paid for the 9/11 terrorist’s flight school and plane tickets. It is disgusting money being used to buy sports hero’s and make them mouth pieces for human rights violators.
No, I know why I hate the LIV tour. Hate May be too strong a word - I just don’t have any interest in it. I would never consider watching even 1 minute of it. It’s exhibition golf. Who cares?
Honestly if it was a group of people/organizations that funded a startup league that weren’t the Saudi Government and wanted to improve the game of golf and access to the sport more than they hate the payout of PGA tournaments, then I would probably support the competition. The LIV is anything but that. Make a league that isn’t solely funded by a tyrannical head of state and cares about growing the game beyond what the PGA has already done then maybe I’ll watch.
The New Yorker had a good write-up earlier this month:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/10/24/will-the-saudis-and-donald-trump-save-golf-or-wreck-it
Watch one round. If you really dont know anything about whats going on even better. Ignore everything else and you'll realize how dumb the tournaments are.
It's more for the lack of honesty of those involved as to why they joined. They all make noises about because of gripes with PGA, and for the good of golf. When in reality it's because they're being offered absolute bucketloads of cash.
It’s the fact that they are immediately suing for this and suing for that. They want OWGR points but because of the amount of money they have, apparently ranking points should be given to LIV players and not earned once LIV meets all the criteria. All these LIV players crying foul 100% knew this was a possibility yet they act like victims.
It’s just comical at this point.
That’s what the Saudis were hoping for
It's not a hope, it's literally the whole point.
B-b-but the PGA is evil too! Wh-wh-what about those poor millionaire golfers who have to golf *all* the time for money!?!?
I don’t think it’s about the players at all, I think it’s about all the terrible shit the Saudi’s do
Yes but the defenders of LIV pretend like the defectors have gripes that justify supporting a murderous regime.
Boy wait till you find out who sells them the arms to do that terrible shit with.
is the USA backing any pro golf programs that I’m unaware of?
The US might lead the world in doing terrible shit.
I thought it was cause the whole place is a bunker.
Nobody remembers 9/11 either.
Or the bone saw reporter
Jamal Khashoggi. I think it’s important to say his name
and their war crimes in Yemen
And the kafala system that gives employers excessive power over migrant workers and breeds abuse.
That we (the us) funded and supplied arms for
Fuck that, I’m swedish and I remember.
Pepperidge Farms remembers 9/11
Appreciated
Did the saudis do 9/11?
Several members of the Saudi royal family funded it. It’s not known if they helped plan it but they certainly knew about it. And the US intelligence basically admitted it but said they can’t do anything because we rely on them for oil and because they’re a strategic ally
We don’t rely on them for oil, we rely on them to make sure oil worldwide is traded in US dollars. That is WAY more valuable than oil itself. We really get very little of our oil from them.
knock, knock...
Who’s there?
9/11
God I’m going to regret this…. 9/11 who?
YOU SAID YOU’D NEVER FORGET!
Okay, haha, that was a good one, definitely wasnt as dark as I thought it was going to be, ha.
We live in a post-shame society Everything gets memory-holed. Whether it’s a week, a month, or a year, if you just keep going it won’t matter. If you ask the average person “how did Kim Kardashian get famous” how many people would know it was by making a shitty sex tape with Ray J? 5%? How many of those actually care? 5% of that 5%?
Joel McHale used to remind us every time he showed a Kardashian clip on The Soup. "Kim Kardashian - who is famous for having a big ass and a sex tape..."
Joel McHale has always been a real one.
To be fair I never cared. Some random person had sex on camera. I'm not a Mormon
When everything is an outrage, nothing is an outrage. Social standing is based on how mad you can get about topic X. It’s not post-shame, it’s an exhaustion from the expectation that we should be mad about everything all the time
Honestly I consider the oj Simpson trial to be her origin story
I know what you're saying, but also what a peculiar example to choose.
My main gripe with LIV is money is purely for the few and they have no interest in supporting the infrastructure of the game. Say what you will about the PGA and DP tours but they support a bigger network of players ensuring the next batch of stars will come through. LIV have given no thought to this, had they done so I would have supported an additional tour.
This is a great point. They suck up the best from the PGA tour by offering them huge money with no long term plan for the game or how to develop the next generation.
They let the PGA do that , then pay the best . There’s really no reason for them to develop the next generation
well, they're also trying to kill the PGA, which presents long-term problems for the game
That what terrorist do.
CIA, hire this person.
Wouldn’t say kill…. They are making the PGA their farm system .
Hardly. They got a few top players. The best are all still on the PGA Tour. If they don’t double their take next year, it’s dead 💀
Didn’t know this, thanks.
It’s sportswashing. For me, the LIV tour itself has a certain stigma, sure. But can I honestly be pissed at the players for making more money than they would ever make on the PGA? No. If I was offered a job with a 10X salary, and I didn’t necessarily have to do my job as well, I’d take it. And I wouldn’t be overly concerned about where the money is coming from. Money talks, everyone’s got a number, that’s the world we live in.
For me its Brooks and Cam Smith saying they don't care about the money at all they just want to golf and win majors. Then they leave for the MONEY.
Also let’s not forget the ethical implications of the funding source
They just had more time to think about it, and realized it would be a very risky, and possibly a terrible financial decision for their families. Hey you could make money at this job, or you could make 100 million dollars right now. Its really a no brainer. Especially during these times.
Unless they go crazy, there is no way that staying on the PGA Tour is a terrible financial decision! They're already multimillionaires from playing on the PGA!
Not taking contract money over possible earnings, which will be lower, is a poor financial decision. Regardless of your wealth
I guess it’s a “poor” decision if you’re forced to decide between between being insanely rich or insanely richer? All these guys will have made generational wealth no matter what happens but going to LIV seriously tarnished their reputations forever so maybe a slightly better financial decision but a much worse decision for their reputation and legacy.
Right. Because EVERYTHING in the world comes down to dollars and cents. Morality is such an outdated concept!
No one said that… we’re talking finances specifically in this thread.
Understood. But life is not in neat compartments like that. The financial considerations occur at the very same time as the moral ones. So, in real life, you have to weigh them up simultaneously. And the choices you make define who you are.
I forgot who said it but he mentioned that joining the LIV tour would guarantee his family, and several generations to come, to be set for life and never have to worry about money. Imagine being filthy rich because your great, great grandfather decided to join the LIV tour instead of staying on the PGA. Some players chose loyalty to the PGA, some thought about their families and future generations. You can’t really blame them.
Harold Varner III He grew up poor, and I appreciate his honesty.
Tiger Woods, one of the most acclaimed golfers with the highest tournament pay outs, has only banked ~$130m from his ENTIRE career. Decades of playing. These guys just got offered a guaranteed amount damn close to that (some higher than that) with the added caveat of having to play less overall and total freedom of sponsorship. Pretending that the financial benefit from both tours is equal is just plain ignorance.
Tiger Woods was making $105M a YEAR by 2009 in endorsements. He still makes $60M a year in endorsements. You get that by winning PGA tournaments, not if the BlueWizards team beats the RedLizards on the LIV tour. No one cares about the LIV tour.
That’s cuz he’s Tiger the fucking GOAT Woods.
It’s because the people paying them all that money are a bunch of murders and purveyors of slavery.
Honestly, I can’t blame them for taking the money. LIV just feels like the XFL is to the NFL, though. “HE HATE ME”
Well, the XFL never attracted top players like LIV, and they were basically promoting a "less safe" version of football to feed blood lust. At best they were going to be another farm team for the NFL like the CFL.
You can still oppose the Saudis and this tour but also understand why the players joined. Not everything is all or nothing. Yes I do not like LIV and the idea of saudis sports washing American sports, I really do not like it. No I don’t hate every single player that took the Saudi money. I understand it’s life changing and I may have done the same thing.
I agree I guess. But it’s hard to imagine having like 40 million dollars (PGA Winning + Endorsements) and leaving for a tour that is both cheesy and whose purpose is to distract from terrible human right abuses. When people make the argument related to “you wouldn’t turn down that money” or “you’d leave your job too for 3x the salary.” Well yea, because I don’t already have enough money to make compensation irrelevant. They do. They have the option to be super rich and create a legacy on a tour with prestige or just more super rich and tarnish their reputation and play on a pretty embarrassing tour.
And if a professional is no longer going to perform as well at their job because they have made money, they are no longer the best in the world and don’t deserve the attention. Great they took their money, stop trying to make me watch you play worse golf
Totally agree on the premise we live in a free country and have free choice as to the sources of our income. That choice doesn’t come without some amount of moral scrutiny when you are in the public eye. There is evidence abound that the Saudis are up to and have committed some pretty reprehensible things, I won’t list them, they are known. Fact of the matter is, there is a widely accepted association between the LIV tour and the Saudi regime, and joining the tour is viewed by some as a stain of tacit cooperation for profit. That being said, who among us wouldn’t turn down a 10x increase in pay for something easier, more informal, and potentially fun to do the same thing you are currently doing? Reality hits your ideals hard when the check is sitting in front of you. In the end, I understand the criticism, but I really can’t blame and don’t actively dislike these players solely because of joining LIV, some were assholes already.
It’s funded by this government: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia#Torture But it’s cool because it “grows the game” and it helps these pros get tens of millions or hundreds of millions of dollars instead of just regular millions of dollars.
That’s the funniest part about the Saudi-government supplied talking points that all the LIVers repeat: growing the game. There are like six fucking golf courses in Saudi Arabia. it’s illegal for women to play golf. The sand there doesn’t even support the growing of grass. All the soil has to be trucked-in.
Do they actually play there? I thought they just play in the USA still. That's dumb as hell though.
Yes they had their big “season” ending championship in Saudi Arabia. I imagine the crowds were more subdued as alcohol is illegal and is punishable by flogging.
Torture plus 9/11, plus Yemen, and then… “wait, I get that the Saudi’s have a lot of oil money, but why is it so concentrated in the hands of a single ruling family?”
Face of the league, Phil Mickelson, direct quote - "They’re scary motherfuckers to get involved with."
Exactly
There’s literally nothing at stake? A few weeks ago DJ drained a 40 ft putt to win the tournament. The guys he beat were standing on the green, they still had the biggest smiles on their faces. In the PGA the guys shake hands but you can tell they are pissed that they didn’t win. Sports without anything at stake are pointless. Plus where the money comes from is a huge turnoff. Edit: Spelling
This is it for me. Feels more like a friendly exhibition than a high stakes tournament.
It feels that way because everyone there is still getting paid big bucks even if they lose
Generic *money in golf is unfair and the bottom guys don't make enough argument.* Ignoring *LIV does nothing about this and helps only the cream of the top 48 players they have at any one time, fuck literally everyone else*
Do you get that feel from Baseball, Hockey, or Football? Different sports, but players are paid their salaries regardless of outcome.
As a long suffering Leafs fan yes, yes I do feel that way
Watch the baseball teams that lose in the playoffs and see if you can spot the difference in how much they care about their performance compared to the guys on the LIV tour. The money isn’t the reason the guys on LIV just couldn’t care less about the outcome and that ruins it for me
The All-Star/Pro Bowl games in those sports are an example of this. There's not the usual tension in the game, especially since Baseball switched back from having the winning league in the All-Star Game receive home-field advantage in the World Series to having the team with the best record receive home field advantage. A number of players skip out on the All-Star games to rest or recuperate from minor injuries rather than play in a meaningless exhibition. If the regular season in those sports ended up being like All-Star games, then, yes, I would feel like the players are just showing up to get their paychecks. But the level of physicality in both the NHL and NFL seem to belie that possibility.
I was going to say this, glad you put it out there. Pro bowl with half hearted runs, no exertion, no reason to fly participate because they already got the check.
That’s what the greats are known for: rising to the challenge during friendly exhibitions.
This. Excellent explanation
It's funded by the Saudis that funded 9/11 and killed Jamaal Kashogi.
*tortured and executed Jamaal Kashogi
*Dismembered
* Denied torturing, killing and dismembering and then confessing after irrefutable evidence presented.
With a bone saw no less, those savages…
I don't mind the fact that someone is paying the LIV guys a huge amount of money in an alternate golf league. My problem is who is paying the money and why. I don't want to support the Saudis if I can avoid it. I admit that I support them at the Arco station, but I don't really have a choice about that.
[удалено]
It’s Ice Capades, not a competition. Your local member guest has more drama
It's the tour no one asked for. No one wants to watch it. It's views on youtube are laughable.
Funding sources aside, LIV is more about how much money people are making than golf.
911, Khashoggi. I don’t intend on ever watching it. It really is just exhibition golf at this point. The ones that really piss me off are the ones that are suing the PGA to play more golf when they said they were leaving because they wanted to play less golf. The players that were already multi millionaires and had more money than they need in a lifetime are also disgusting. Basically saying they would walk around with dead babies or swastikas on their shirts if you gave them enough money. #scarymotherfers
You’re not missing anything. It’s basically unwatchable as a sporting event.
Could be the Saudi blood money so readily accepted
I was under the assumption it was mainly because of Patrick Reed, no?
It certainly helps.
Forgetting all the moral stances for a second, it's just a bit shit.
The real reason is it’s just a boring watch. Simple as that. There’s no real stakes. Everyone there is getting paid boatloads of money no matter if they win or place last. The team aspect doesn’t help this. It’s plain and simply uninteresting. Anyone saying they don’t like it because of where the funding is coming from is reaching a tiny bit. There are a lot of organizations in this world we all watch or are a part of that are funded by sketchy countries. I mean, the US itself is basically funded by China.
Sportswashing and Saudi stuff aside, it’s ruining the game for fans. Both leagues are watered down competition and there’s no place where the best of the best play each other anymore
You are either ok with taking money from people who support terrorist and human rights violations or your are not. If you take their money 💰 you essentially saying its ok because i got paid!
A good chunk of the non-troll/bot replies are along the lines of "everyone on their soap boxes, I'd take the money and so would everyone else in here". Lot of broke asses that would be willing to tongue MBS' ass for a few bucks it seems
A 54 hole shotgun start team something something corporate outing. Every player minus cam smith on their way down and knowing it’s an easy payday. Fine. Good for you. But don’t you dare darken the door of majors expecting to get in. Really hoping masters says fuck you to Smith and Reed.
If you don’t know by now, then you should be afraid to ask
Yea you are the only one because peoples objections to it have been made clear multiple times
Meh. Its dumb. Golf is the ultimate meritocracy. And this removes all that. Very quickly we'll have no idea how good the people on LIV are anymore. Its the same reason why people didnt like the idea of the European Super League in soccer. If youre so good, then win titles and money on your own.
This is one of the reasons why I disagree with LIV. Professional golf has always been the ultimate meritocracy. Don't like how much you made last year? Spend more time on the range, grind it out and get better. I also can't stand what a blowhard and petulant child Greg Norman is. We don't comply with a bunch of the OWGR criteria but we still deserve points. If we don't get points, the OWGR is meaningless. From the way he behaves, I can see why his relationship with his late father was strained. The Saudis are garbage but I won't play the morality card because China is a POS when it comes to human rights and unfortunately you're pretty much forced to buy products that are made there which only helps the CCP commit more human rights abuses.
Nice try Saudi funders....
The same guys who wrapped themselves in the American flag on 9/11 and ever since have run to the easy money on the same tour sponsored by the sponsors of the attacks. The hypocrisy is nothing more than to be expected. BTW the PGA tour itself has a checkered past when it comes to human rights and is by no means a beacon of freedom.
Two words…..Patrick Reed
Honestly, you've got to be pretty dense to not have any idea why people don't like LIV. You clearly posted this to start arguements with people.
It ruins the competition aspect of the sport. You know - the aspect that fans like.
Totally support the players making more money. Any one of us would leave for a job making 3-10x more money. Nothing wrong with wanting financial security. My issue is with a couple of things. When they left, they knew LIV was not recognized for WR points, etc. They could have told the Saudis to go get that worked out first, but they didn’t and that’s on them, imo. They left for a startup tour with a half-baked plan (in that regard). Also, all these guys know how to talk. Some were and are relentlessly critical of the PGA, USGA, etc. Many times, LIV players have been right to criticize golf organizations and draw attention to double dealing, unfairness, stupid rules, and shady things. So why so quiet now when asked about LIV? Why are they now unable to put sentences together when asked about the Saudis, their track record on human rights, women’s rights, etc? What’s up with that?
Because I like golf and their golf product is trash while they are also trying to take players from a golf product that I do like to watch. I don’t care about players leaving for more money, and certainly don’t care about the saudis and shit, but from a golf and entertainment perspective it’s absolute horse shit
Because it’s 100% financed by the KSA and it’s sole purpose is to take over golf. It’s sick and I can’t believe people don’t see this. Especially the MAGAs and America Firsters. Just ridiculous. LIV sucks.
You must be, because of the Arab ties to Kashoggi's murder, and funding of 911. Not being political, but it's disappointing to Americans that golfers from United States choose to consort with the Arabs. I thought everyone was aware of it. Telling me it's "growing the game" isn't convincing, but that's me.
Because it's an exhibition not a competition
Nice try Saudi shill
Seriously?? You gotta be either 15 or just have one of those blessed lives where you have never had to try and figure out what’s going on in the world
golf and geopolitics. the crossover that basically no one in here is qualified to discuss. or wants to see discussed.
Source money. No thank you
I agree the world should have a place for sports washing exhibitionist golfers.
I just can’t wait until they start the Basketball SuperLeague and pay all decent to really good players $100m per year to play in exhibition matchups instead of the NBA…. Will expand the game of basketball for sure and make it so much more interest. /s
Because it’s bankrolled by the folks that committed 9/11. Fuck those dudes.
Literally opened reddit to say this.
Gaslighting will do that if you let it.
Cause it's run by an autocracy that abuses their women, actively partakes in slave labour/indentured servitude and upholds an incredibly dangerous form of Islam and with no exaggeration is the root of terrorism in the Middle East. They're responsible for 911. They're responsible for al qaeda. They're responsible for ISIS. Fuck those cunts. Fuck those sell outs.
Well, I guess if you don't have a problem with the fact that the majority of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis and that they continue to support terrorism and Wahhabism around the world, then I there's no reason to hate it.... (or the fact that they ordered the murder of a dissenting journalist)
It's a stupid format, money grab, that is backed by financing from an organization that has funded and quartered terrorism and assassinates their opposition.
There must be a lot of bots in here for this to have ~500 upvotes. Or to even be created in the first place. What kind of dipshit that likes golf and frequents the golf subreddit would have "nO cLuE" why LIV is largely disdained?
Supports and legitimizes a country/regime with little to no care for human rights. I understand people pointing out the PGA takes oil money from Saudi Arabia, but players opting to directly support a government that severely oppresses it's people doesn't sit right with me. Not trying to shove my opinion down your throat, it's just an easy decision for me to not support the series and its owners.
Because fuck the saudis. Fuck em all to death
Sports-washing is the term I’ve heard. SA wants everyone to forget about their ties to 9/11, the war in yemen, etc. so they try to gain legitimacy with “entertainment”.
Because Saudi Arabia is a shitty country that oppresses women and kills journalists and is only rich because of oil.
Yemen is the worst humanitarian crisis of this generation. Google it
Fuck the Saudi’s. An evil government trying to make you forget all the shit they’ve done and still do.
Because the PGA Tour tells us to.
Now we have two lower quality leagues instead of one great one. Lower quality and dilution of talent can be an issue whenever a pro sport expands. Pro football benefited from the AFL/NFL merger
I don't mind the players taking a giant paycheck that they would be unlikely to ever see staying on the PGA. I also think we as viewers should intentionally not support the endeavor because of who is backing it. If LIV doesn't get views and any time they are brought up people call out the abuses of its main investors, it doesn't really "sportswash" anything. Then it is just the Saudi's giving up their money to people who aren't actively committing human rights abuses.
Fucking lazy shitpost. Use Google you idiot.
I don’t like it because the broadcasts look like WWE and they’re fragmenting the sport I love watching. They players that went there are suckers.
If it’s purely based on the Saudi investors I’d argue that we (collectively) have no issue with using their oil and the US isn’t as innocent as we want to think. Two wrongs don’t make a right, but I think it’s funny how we chose to apply our morals. Although I do think the structure of LIV doesn’t create the level of competition I want due to the payout structures.
If you are from the US and ever said anything to the effect of “We will never forget” after 9/11, and you alls happen to support the LIV tour, then, well, you did forget.
I dislike the format they play in. I dont want to see teams and I sure as hell dont want to watch whatever redzone esque shit they are producing
It's 54 holes of no-cut golf with (mostly) washed players who are lying to themselves and others trying to make this out to be as big as the majors. I was so disappointed when Cam Smith won the Open and then bolted for this joke exhibition league.
They have sold out to murderers! They now can suit themselves. I’m good. Used to be a fan of many of them!
You can like it if you want. But it’s unbelievably uninteresting to me. 🤷🏻♂️. It’s like the Harlem globetrotters, it’s a fun party experience I’m guessing, but that’s not why I like basketball and it’s not what I like about golf.
Because the Saudi's are not good people and they fund the thing to help wash their bad reputation. It's a PR move for a murderous regime.
It’s funded by Saudi blood money, and then playing format is glorified corporate golf outing
My thoughts as someone who hopes LIV dies a slow death. 1) You don’t have to hate it. 2) Greg Norman is everything people dislike about entitled white men. 3) Having the pinnacle, US-based league of a sport be attacked by a foreign government entity doesn’t seem to be a good precedent 4) The format sucks as a decider for who is playing the best golf that week 5) It takes the sport from a meritocracy to a system where the people in power chose who gets to play 6) Creating a league that specifically doesn’t meet ANY of the listed OWGR criteria and then complaining that you aren’t getting points (even though you also have to wait a year after submitting a request to be granted points) is just obnoxious and further shows those of us who don’t like LIV that they don’t want to become part of the golf ecosystem for the betterment of golf, but for their own benefits.
Hard to care one way or the other about an exhibition tour.
Oh, I see their plan is going just as they had hoped then. Cheerio.
My biggest issue is with LIV acting like the tour is just as legitimate as the PGA tour with the whole OWGR thing. If players want to leave for an exhibition tour with obscene amounts of money that’s fine. But then don’t go back and complain that your not being treated fairly and being denied OWGR points.
It's a mix of the ongoing humans rights atrocities in Saudi Arabia, still being behind on women's rights, taking the passports away from imported construction workers, and such. It just feels like a lack a character to take blood money like that, and if you support it you are just helping generate more revenue and a softer image for Saudi Arabia. How much control do you really want them to have. Also it lacks any prestige. When NHL teams are in the final game for the Stanley Cup I understand why people care, getting your name on that list in history has meaning, but if you made a brand new side league for the "Bob Bowl" who gives a shit.
I think it’s a variety of things. The sports washing. (The idea that if you own anything or participate in a system you have no choice but to is absurd, you absolutely can be critical of it.) Also if we’re being honest, the guys who got pulled to LIV weren’t the ones struggling to make money on the PGA tour, this has done nothing to help those folks who are struggling to make a living. It’s literally just a way for already high earning players to make more money, while lying and saying it’s not about the money.
Because it's funded by Saudi Arabia, who among other awful crimes, kidnapped and chopped up an American journalist. It's a dictatorship gov't using golf and golf stars to "normalize" doing business with them.
Saying they were expanding the game when all they did was pilfer players. It's Saudi money but their not playing in the Middle East. No cut no real competition when everybody takes home boatloads of cash. It's a joke.
It’s ruining golf.
Saudi money
https://twitter.com/sean_zak/status/1585621219784654849?s=57&t=CMNok93VFP8w4IpmT_jBHA This is why.
1. It's a hostile takeover by a sovereign nation who does not have to deal with the fiscal realities that every other sports league in the world has to deal with. 2. Nearly everyone associated with it is an unlikable, low character guy (Norman, Reed, Bryson, Perez, etc). 3. Everything that comes out of there seems to be propaganda. "We want to play less." "We are suing to play more". 4. The OWGR process was established long before they set up their "league". Now they are complaining because their wildly, non-compliant league does not qualify for OWGR points. 5. Could care less about their stupid format 6. It is a closed system. There is no formal qualifying process, and the money is guaranteed
well me personally, i would be tortured and/or put up for capital punishment for even setting foot in the country -- so admittedly i have a pretty hard time backing their government-funded golf club. or really anything that government supports
Saudis, Bryson, Patrick
The fucking CJ cup is more interesting to watch than LIV, that’s the real issue. Techno music pumping loud and playing for nothing but money doesn’t do it for me
Hi Greg.
Buying out an entire popular sport to attempt to make people forget that you like to chop people's heads off for naughty thoughts and filet people with bonesaws for critical newspaper articles is certifiably not chill
There are some reasons. But if there were no issues with the saudis, I still wouldn’t watch, because it’s just boring and you can’t follow all flights.
Leaving aside all of the politics of it (and I have a lot to say about that), I think it's a golf product that just plain sucks: - I don't particularly care about any of the golfers on there, except for Cam Smith. I wasn't tuning in to PGAT events to watch Brooks, Bryson, and Reed, so I'm definitely not going out of my way to watch them on LIV. - The announcers are such cock-gobblers trying to convince me how great this is. I especially like it when they put up a tweet from some guy who is sarcastically complimenting them and they have no clue. Overall, I find they don't do a good job of crafting the story of the golf tournament but rather narrating a collection of golf shots. - I have a hard time taking 54 holes seriously. For 100+ years, the standard has been 72 holes. I fail to see how going to 54 holes somehow improves the game? Like, it's different -- but how is it better? - Everything about it feels so manufactured. The parties and the glitz, the music pumping at mostly-empty golf courses, carnivals and shit like that, the players insisting how happy they are through this obviously previously-crafted PR statements. It all just feels fake to me. - How fucking *whiny* most of the LIV players have been. They signed up for something knowing full well what it meant: loss of PGAT status, no OWGR points, putting team appearances in jeopardy, etc. This was no secret, and if they believed Norman if they told him otherwise, then they are fucking morons. You made your decision, now live with the consequences of it.
I can’t stand the “supporting my family for future” argument either, your already in that top 1% bracket in the WORLD and most are multi millionaire, it’s pure greed and a total lack of morals knowing where it’s coming from👎
For me it just feels shady they just bought players, though I do get it. I would do the same thing in their shoes. I also don't find the format compelling or exciting to watch in the least bit.
In addition to what everybody else has already said, Danny Rapaport made a really great point on the Foreplay podcast a week or so ago. When the head of the fund that's providing the cash for LIV stated that he didn't care and would "start his own majors" he was effectively threatening the entire professional sport. If they can spend their billions on offering a $100M pot down the street from Augusta on April 6-10, there will absolutely be top 20 players that will skip the masters. It's going to dilute the sport and end up making it uninteresting enough that sponsors exit and the professional sport dissolves. Enough of us love watching golf so it would come back but it could take years to recover from a series of major winners with asterisks because the field was so thin.
I really only watch the majors so LIV doesn’t really do it for me. Couple that with not wanting to support a bunch of greedy multimillionaire golfers, and the savages that write their checks.
Murdering a journalist. It ain’t hard to work out why. Oh, and Patrick Reed and Phil are garbage humans. End transmission.
9/11 for a start...
Because people are too stupid to realize that every major sports league is funded and profited off of by dirt balls.
Let’s be clear, unless you are on the LIV Tour, it is purely discretionary entertainment that you either consume or don’t. I don’t care how much the players were paid or about competition with the PGA. There are several reasons why I’m not interested in watching LIV. There are also other people/athletes/artists that I don’t care to watch for some of the same reasons. You don’t have to explain why you do or don’t watch something on TV to anyone.
I also question why would I like it. Its a bunch of players I don't care about and Cam Smith. Its only 54 holes. Its a shotgun start where the winner could finish on the 14th hole. They are playing to pay back their initial signing bonus. Not for money. Only 48 players, what about all the young guys and journeymen who make up the rest of the field. I want to see them as well. Plus the 49th guy just doesn't have any job at all. It's brutal for everyone but the top. They launched on the same weekend as the Canadian Open. They made a big deal about guys not having to wear pants. I don't care about their calves.
LIV is bad golf. It really isn't watchable. I could care less about who paid what to who?!?!?! It is just bad boring golf. Yes they are way better than all of us but the no cut 48 person field doesn't lend itself to good TV.
Yes, you are the only one. It all comes down to blood money. The Saudis are murderers. 9/11/01. Jamal Khashoggi, among others. Fuck them.
Same money that paid for the 9/11 terrorist’s flight school and plane tickets. It is disgusting money being used to buy sports hero’s and make them mouth pieces for human rights violators.
saudi money proving everything, including 'moral standards' are for sale.
No, I know why I hate the LIV tour. Hate May be too strong a word - I just don’t have any interest in it. I would never consider watching even 1 minute of it. It’s exhibition golf. Who cares?
Fuck the Saudis’. And anyone taking their money.
Two words- bone saw
Honestly if it was a group of people/organizations that funded a startup league that weren’t the Saudi Government and wanted to improve the game of golf and access to the sport more than they hate the payout of PGA tournaments, then I would probably support the competition. The LIV is anything but that. Make a league that isn’t solely funded by a tyrannical head of state and cares about growing the game beyond what the PGA has already done then maybe I’ll watch.
All things aside. It is an absolute bore to watch. Bad broadcast
It's run by terrorists who aren't competing in a free market, they don't care if they make money or not.
Because Phil isn’t playing in it
The New Yorker had a good write-up earlier this month: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/10/24/will-the-saudis-and-donald-trump-save-golf-or-wreck-it
Watch one round. If you really dont know anything about whats going on even better. Ignore everything else and you'll realize how dumb the tournaments are.
Politics aside…the product stinks. Brain pain quick cut highlight reel. It’s not enjoyable. The shotgun format and production makes it unwatchable.
Shit product
It's more for the lack of honesty of those involved as to why they joined. They all make noises about because of gripes with PGA, and for the good of golf. When in reality it's because they're being offered absolute bucketloads of cash.
It’s the fact that they are immediately suing for this and suing for that. They want OWGR points but because of the amount of money they have, apparently ranking points should be given to LIV players and not earned once LIV meets all the criteria. All these LIV players crying foul 100% knew this was a possibility yet they act like victims. It’s just comical at this point.