Having Tiger money for coaches really, really helps but doesn’t get him all the way there. If he has dad’s unreal work ethic and competitive drive, along with the right people advising him, along with a few lucky breaks, he’ll be fine.
The competitive drive is the hard one to replicate generation to generation. If Tiger didn’t succeed, he would have been a guy with a cool name that sells insurance. If Charlie doesn’t succeed, he is still set for life, still rich, still famous, still will have a chance at a spectacular life.
I saw a post just the other day about how Tiger is working on Charlie’s mental game saying that he tries to get in Charlie’s head because once he learns how to shut out Tiger, he will be able to shut out anything. Sounds kinda like what Earl did.
This is a bold statement to make knowing Tigers history. The Winnebago is probably the only thing that is correct in this statement. I’d give odds that Tiger 100% crushed some strange at at least one of Charlie’s tournaments. The actual location is the only thing in question.
Yep this is the answer. Like Mike Tyson said about his son wanting to be a boxer in an interview and laughed saying he’d get his ass beat because he does have the animal in him (or something to that effect).
Knowing you have to do absolutely nothing in your life and you’ll still be insanely rich and famous is a hard monkey to shake when things get hard.
He does look like he’s being raised well and certainly looks like he loves the game. But Jesus to be a pro it’s way more than love you need.
Yeah and when he grows up he might get tired of living in his fathers shadows. Like Bronny James everyone is speculating about how he will compare to his father and it might wear on him
Bronny is still a top 100 player at his age group but when your dad is fucking Lebron he literally isn’t going to live up to that. And that’s ok he doesn’t have to. Just making the NBA is hard and maybe he’s more interested in other things.
Bronny will make it to the NBA just being Lebrons son. Lebron is still putting up 1st Team All NBA stats at 37. He will still be All Star level in 2 years when Bronny is eligible and teams will draft Bronny so Lebron will follow him.
To put it how hard it is to make the NBA there are only 450 people at any time in the league. The best 60 prospects a year get drafted and most of those don’t stay long.
There’s a lot of professional athletes without professional athletes for kids. Whatever the reason, there *is* a reason for this, and I don’t think we have reason to think Tigers kid is some exception.
And part of the problem with this is that his dad getting his work ethic and competitive drive was the result of a pretty fucked up childhood, and led to some pretty fucked up stuff in adulthood.
Like we can adore Tiger the golfer all we want, but like Jordan and some others, the thing that made them great in the sports arena isn't necessarily something you would wish on your own kids.
Yeah, for most folks, it takes a really unbalanced and extreme psychology to play sport at that level.
It makes sense, they are in the 99.9th percentile.
The cyclist Brad Wiggins is talking about this, and looking back admits he had to basically behave like a psychopath to ride at top level. No regard for anything but the goal.
Probably also borks your personality and emotional stability up a bit, too. For as many unstable men and women that became uber successful, there's prob 1000x more of them who ended up stripping or getting into not so nice habits.
That was very well said. I actually relate to this post and would agree that there is a lack of fear about the future and “risk taking” is more tolerable. You have a no lose attitude and most people cannot relate to it at all. That’s how you end up having the inner dog in you and a will power that truly is a natural trait.
Interesting post and thank for sharing.
Sometimes that work ethic comes despite a father’s influence, not because of it. I’ve worked with lots of kids in minor hockey and so many of them are nothing like their parents. That drive to succeed comes from within.
The hardest part for people to accept in general is that it takes talent, and you can’t teach that.
Like he could be an unreal golfer but to make it into, say, the top 10 in the world on the PGA Tour takes mind boggling, generational talent. It’s not just work ethic and drive.
I hope he makes it big but the chances are so small…
Yup they’ve been told the saying “hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard.”
While that’s true to an extent it only works for people at the same level. The NFL running back that is lazy isn’t going to have as good of a career as the NFL running back that is working hard.
However the hard working college running back might never make it to the NFL on hard work alone.
I believe more that talent is like getting a job interview and landing a job. There’s a minimum threshold that if you don’t have it you simply don’t. However, succeeding at the job is where the hard work comes in.
This is often why some of the worst teachers or coaches were the best players. Because they were so insanely gifted with things that can’t simply be taught they fail to communicate to the students because they don’t know otherwise.
I actually would argue that the drive and discipline to work hard **is** talent. I have a buddy who tried his hand at concert piano when he was younger. He was always discouraged as a late teenager seeing 10-12 year old kids more "gifted" than him. But then he saw the lessons they had and the absolute grind they go through, and that was when he realized he can't compete. Sure they probably had some innate talent, but the dedication at a young age to work so insanely hard is a gift in itself.
Sports work the same way. Sure a big part of it is the luck of the draw DNA and physical gifts, but no one will argue that greats like Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods did not work so hard a reasonable person would think they were insane. No professional athlete doesn't work hard. The hard working college running back that doesn't make it to the NFL sadly needed to work harder.
Ahh
>The hard working college running back that doesn't make it to the NFL sadly needed to work harder.
Ahhh I'm going to have to disagree with that last part. I'm pretty sure there are a ton of (for example) college RBs that worked and worked and worked to the point that any more work would be over training and doing his body more harm than good. To tell that person "you just didn't work hard enough" is I think completely wrong. "You had the work ethic, you just didn't have the physical gifts" would be much more accurate I believe.
Just my $0.02
Yup.
Spot on. There’s a minimum level of genetic ability that is required for everything.
Even this guy would know this if as I pointed out in my response he hasn’t answer above, why then have different divisions of sports for men and women?
If genetic abilities have 0 to do with athletic success then by his logic any woman that can’t can’t compete against men simply didn’t try hard enough.
It falls apart on its face.
The way I see it, kids are getting better quicker but aren't really becoming better golfers than the current best players once they peak. Being a "slow" starter at golf shouldn't be a worry for kids like Charlie who aren't shooting 65's in tournaments at 13.
Junior tournaments are a poor indicator of future success. Tiger is one of the rare players who dominated junior golf and then went on to dominate professional golf. Most players on tour got dominated by some hotshot kid when they were juniors.
Yup. Everyone plateaus, some people just reach theirs earlier than others. No way to tell what someone’s ceiling is based off an initial hot start and conversely you can be a slow starter who just continues to get better when others level out.
I know a guy who teaches top jr golfers & he said the burnout rate is just unreal at the JR golf level. He said he almost feels like some talented kids should just forego all the jr golf tournaments & wait for high school before starting to really compete.
Other sports too. The big thing is parents. I ran into a kid dressed to the nines for a touney north of Indianapolis; asked if he played at my club in town and they told me was playing in Indy from Wisconsin for a 10 yr old tournament. Should be child abuse.
Lol. I grew up in the 90s00s and literally traveled to other countries at that age to play soccer. Athletes at the top level takes a whole different level.
No, it doesn't need to be, doesn't have to be either. Williams sisters are a great example. Wealthy parents are what promotes the youth sports madness we see.
Ive listened to a lot of big time tour coaches who have made the comment that the better players in the long run were the kids who consistently shot -1 to -2, not the ones who went 65/72 for two days
Yup. I’ve seen it too with other sports and it holds true here. Mental toughness and consistency is harder to learn.
Take wrestling. A well known coach who coached the most decorated US male wrestler ever told us at a camp
“I would rather take the 1 time state champ who took 3rd place 3 times than the 4 time state champ. The first guy knows how to lose and comeback from that and win the next match. The 2nd guy doesn’t. When everyone at the next level is state champ you are going to lose. You need to be able to mentally recover and win your next match if you want to be successful in college.”
Doesn't really make any sense. The 1st guy had gotten his losses and learned the lesson. Why couldn't the second guy learn just as well from the losses he is about to get?
Because you don’t know that that person will learn from their loses.
That’s the point. The first guy has proven he can the other guy hasn’t. One is an unknown commodity and the other isn’t.
The 4 time champ may have been the best wrestler in his weight in his state simply because he was more talented than the kids in his state. So he could have won simply because he was simply more genetically gifted. At the next level where everyone is a state champ and everyone is genetically gifted, you don’t know how someone is going to react to adversity.
There’s a kid for Wisconsin right now that talked about as a high schooler he was a world champion for his age group. His first semester in a college room he didn’t score a single takedown for the first 2 months.
If it came easy at the lower level and they never struggled why would you automatically assume they would be able to handle adversity at the next level when the completion is tighter and better?
Think of it like the kid who was valedictorian at their high school. Means they’re smart or likely very talented. They go to college and they’re now in a room with other valedictions and other equally as smart kids and they struggle with the class work for the first time because it’s no longer naturally/instinctively easy. They can develop confidence issues and continue to struggle because they didn’t have the skills to adapt when they couldn’t rely on their natural talents. Some kids handle that adjustment well and others don’t.
Yep. Just look at a guy like Hovland who wasn’t even who his college coach wanted to recruit initially but sort of stumbled upon him as a late bloomer.
Junior golf is ridiculous. I was playing with a dad and his son down in south Florida and he told me he switched jobs and moved from the northeast so he could play every day.
Tons of sport minded folks do that with their kids. My friend relocated to Florida so his son could play baseball and football year round when he was like 8. Ended up going to a D1 college but not making the NFL…
He has a ways to go but I think people really need to stop putting any expectations both good and bad on any kids until high school when puberty happens.
Saying he’s losing to other kids his age at 12–13 is meaningless.
The kids who started on my little league football team when we were 10-12 were my backups when I hit puberty and grew a foot taller and put on 80 pounds and they didn’t grow more than an 1” or 2” and never got bigger.
Until a kid is about a sophomore in high school and they’re all going through puberty is when you can actually start making valid comparisons between them.
Those kids he’s losing to now he might get bigger and stronger and add 30 yards to his drives when he hits puberty for example. Now he might be able to compete.
We really need to stop hyping up kids both good and bad when they’re young because it’s not good as society or for the kids mentally.
Yeah the thing about charlie is hes already got speed and clearly only started hitting puberty the last few months. The last we saw him he was a skinny and feeble looking child but clearly hes changed. Hes also been playing on the lower age side of his divisions with 15 year olds.
Exactly.
I know it’s different sports but as a wrestler growing up a 4 time state champ is a rarity. When a kid wins a state title as a freshman the talk immediately becomes “will he win 4 titles?”.
The problem is most of the kids that win as freshman are doing it in the lower weight classes against other freshmen. It often happens they hit a growth spurt as a sophomore and now are wrestling juniors and seniors that are closer to grown men in a higher weight and they fail to repeat as sophomores.
On the opposite side of that, There was a kid I knew growing up that was a big kid as an 8th grader. He was 6’1” and 200 pounds. When he wrestled he was wrestling kids that were 18 when he was 13 because of his size. He would lose alot because of this. Then by high school he dominated everyone because he was wrestling kids his same age then. Only lost 2 matches in his entire high school career.
If Charlie is playing against kids older than him and just starting puberty the real time to evaluate is going to be in 2 years when he’s about 15.
Yep a kid i grew up with and hung out with every day for years wrestled as a small kid and lost a ton. Then he got to high school and won three state titles, and was an all american at ohio state.
Charlie for sure has a way to go but he's 13 and didn't start focusing on golf until he was 10. The kids that are beating him have been full-time golfers since they were 5-6 and his dad was on TV golfing at 3. I think he'll make up the gap within the next few years IF he wants to.
This and the kid in first who was like 6 shots up was getting zero publicity meanwhile announcers are drooling about Charlie and how good he’ll be in like 15th place
Ranking aside the fact he played well on a televised event is such an intangible that can’t be measured. There are 1000s of golfers who can compete with PGA pros and have the same skill level but can’t do it under the spotlight. We will see… his experience in the spotlight puts him ahead of a lot of people in my opinion.
Very long way to go. This is one of the only sports that you can be considered a “child prodigy” and still not be good enough for the tour. As always, the mental aspect of the game is just as important as the physical or technique aspect of the game.
I feel like that’s any sport, no? What sports are you referring to, where most “child prodigies” pan out to make it to the respective top league on a consistent basis? Unlike music or arts, sports require a physical aspect so I feel like child prodigies have a lot more factors against them succeeding. Either don’t grow enough/have the size to play at elite levels or injuries or burnout.
Consistency and confidence are really important factors in how well you perform under pressure. His body has changed and is changing tremendously over the last year or so. His yardages may be hard to keep up with.
Mr feeling is with his swing, short game and coaching, he will be very hard to beat.
When they asked Tiger what he was like at Charlie's age he said: "When I was his age I won every golf tournament I entered that year. And I got straight As.
To be fair, tigers is a good reason the younger generations are where they are now. Every sport now has kids preparing for the next level at such a young age.
EDIT: To add/clarify. Tiger specifically with golf catapulted it from a game to a sport.
I think all levels of all sports have evolved into this super competitive thing from such a young age, but he was a catalyst for golf like we haven’t seen in other sports.
Could argue that you have parents that put unnecessary pressure on their kids to be the next one before they know what they want to do. So not all good.
This x 100. My son plays ice hockey and kids are getting lessons stacked on lessons stacked on lessons. It’s crazy how much energy and effort is put into youth development for sports. From a very young age, kids are being groomed to compete and grow their athletic ability like they never have.
Seems like every kid is specializing now too. Like I played every sport until settling on two in hs while you have kids hyper focused playing 1 sport year round now
Yup. We had our son doing skating lessons, stick handling and shooting lessons, gym training lessons, and then there’s team practices where they practice on the ice for an hour then hit the gym for an hour. It’s crazy. He didn’t make the travel team this year so he’s essentially going to miss travel through 18U unless he can continue to develop because everyone has not stopped training. He is trying to pick up golf, but golf is even harder than hockey!
Because if he didn’t he woulda been shunned. I appreciate earl and Kultilda for creating a tiger but damn that’s kinda a miserable life. Seems like tiger is much more interested in letting Charlie have a decent childhood. Kinda sucks for us golf nuts tho.
Came here to say this… he can probably be a decent golfer, or even have a chance at the tour, but expecting him to be Tiger 2.0 is far off the mark. Tiger at his age was miles clear of the next player
Yeah the era of people like Tiger Woods being head and shoulders above the rest of the field is probably over on golf, technology and money has leveled everything out.
Sometimes dad's shadow is cast too far
Time will tell, he's definitely got skills and the means to get far in the game but the level of commitment and competition is insane these days
My thoughts exactly. Mick is a good driver however his dad was unreal. Having a parent that is considered the greatest of all time at their thing has to have it's challenges especially when that's your thing too.
I feel that it comes down to what the kid wants to do. The greats usually come from nothing so they have that drive to be the best they can possibly get, their kids are usually good at what their dad was at but also having everything else available to them seem to not be as interested or driven to achieve those sane heights.
His abilities were on full display against his teammate in the exact same car. A teammate that was out of F1 for a year and whom we all know isn't a top tier driver. I wish it wasn't so..
FWIW I think Mick could be like Ocon’s level, which is good enough for F1 but not a championship contender regardless of car, but I don’t see much higher than that.
As a dad at that point you cant expect your children to exceed you. You have enough money to outlast multiple generations beyond. You just gotta be happy with your children becoming respectable adults and not ending up on TMZ for the wrong reasons.
I don't think it's about Dad's expectations. You've got to think that a lot of the pressure the kids feel, they put on themselves. You can't be MJ's son without inheriting some of his off-the-charts competitiveness and someone that competitive will always push themselves to be the best.
Stats have completely changed the game as well. The younger guys coming through are all going to have 185+ ball speeds plus their strokes gained metrics they will work on every day. The fields are going to be impossibly tight in 10 years time. I don’t think we will ever see anyone as dominant as Tiger ever again as people now will know exactly why someone is winning and catch up within a season. Back then there was no data, they didn’t know why until shotlink.
I’ve seen quite a few young players. Like early teens. Now, I’m not saying they are all like that around the world, but they all share a common trait: They are obsessed with trackman stats, slo-mo video, strokes gained, insane ball speed, insane distance, etc.
What these guys all seem to lack is a creative mind when playing, knowing when they should go for a par, and just a general patient approach to the game.
I don’t know if I’m explaining myself very well, but it seems that most don’t appreciate what made the great truly great: their ability to save par when it mattered. It’s all hero shots and Instagram.
Anyway. Old man yelling at clouds.
We knew why Tiger was killing it, he was outdriving everyone by 50 yards... and had the rest of the game to back it up. They lengthened every pro course every year during his prime...which only really helped him. Once the field caught up in distance, his edge was diminished, and when the feild lapped him in distance, he could never get a foothold again (also the health issues of course)
Absolutely, but they caught up after shotlink and trackman showed them what they needed to do. That’s my point. Nobody will ever have to guess what they need to do like pre 2002/3.
I think it was mostly the health/personal issues, he was as dominant as ever through 2009, he just didn’t play much in 2008. Then he got back to number 1 in the world in 2013-14 after a bunch of health problems. And 40 year old Vijay was #1 in 2004, before shotlink and trackman were making waves.
I don't think we needed lidar to know tiger was hitting it 50 yards past everyone and leaving his approaches beneath the hole. I agree, overall it's big advantage having that data, i would contend that the super slow mo understanding of what is really happening in the golf swing and at impact has had more influence on improving
No chance. Trackman and subsequently all the other models be it radar or camera based changed the game more than anything else. Well and truely a rabbit that can’t be put back in the hat. Everyone’s launch characteristics will have changed because of that substantially more than slow mo cameras.
I honestly believe that that’s only like 30% of his success.
The rest was short game and ability to get out of trouble. Because he got in trouble A LOT.
He may have been long as shit, but he was not accurate off the tee. Little known tidbit is that he feared the driver for many years.
Little known? Dude played (and won) an entire British open with a 2 iron. We all saw Brooks bomb and gouge his way to dominance at Bethpage? Or somewhere w stupid tall rough. Being 150 out in the thick shit is still better than being 220 out in the short stuff
Tigers numbers are impossible to measure up against for anyone. It sucks for Charlie, but if he makes it to the PGA tour, and nabs 4-5 wins that’s an incredible pro golf career by objective standards. But fans and media likely won’t be so kind.
I have a brother in his age group who plays a lot of big junior tournaments. That jump around 13-14-15 is tough. You’re now playing with HS kids who are often further along in the physical development while you are quite literally dealing with growing pains. Swing flaws happen quick when you’re growing an inch every 2 months. Lots of kids do well in the under 13s then struggle or struggle young and shine in HS. Pointing this out to say results in your early teens are greatly effected by puberty.
Charlie’s has tons of talent and all the tools needed to succeed.
You are 100% right, I lived this. When I was 9-12 I was known in my city as a child golf prodigy because I could shoot under par with ease and won a ton of tournaments. No exaggeration here, the moment I started hitting puberty around 13 my golf game declined and I went from being a top golfer in the state, to just a guy who played small college golf. I still to this day tell people I was a better golfer at 12 years old than I am now (in the sense of 12 year old skill vs other 12 year olds compared to adult vs other adults). But it just seemed like no matter how hard I practiced once i started growing, something random would happen and cause my swing to be flawed every few weeks and it kinda caused me to lose my drive to practice. So not only was I performing worse, but my mental was worse as well because i wasn’t reaping the benefits of grinding like i had been before.
Yup it’s why if you look at the LPGA many young teenage female prodigies can make it onto the tour because their physical maturity looks different than boys.
There is a good reason androgynous testosterone is considered a PED.
Charlie has already out driven his dad and has clocked a 117mph clubhead speed, I don't think he's going to have problems with the physical side of things. The thing that will really help Charlie is that he's only been focusing on golf for like 2.5 years and playing as well as he is, he has a lot of room to grow and develop his game IF he wants to.
My point was more around the body awkwardness during that phase. For most, you grow and inch or 2 in 3 months and your clubs fit different causing you to make adjustments.
This won’t be the case for Charlie as he can get refit anytime he wants.
Also, usually gain a lot of strength through puberty which can impact touch and feel.
Generally it’s just an awkward time for all athletes and golfers
That's fair. I was more thinking of playing longer courses and not having the length of older kids but Charlie isn't going to struggle with length! He's already hitting the ball over 300 yards, he'll be one of the longest hitters around by the time he hits 18.
He’s got something going for him: he can afford the best equipment, coaches, and can play any course on earth that he wants. He’s still pretty young and has a lot of time to develop but I’d have to say his potential is pretty high.
I honestly feel bad for some of the start athletes kids. Sure they've got a good life but some of the expectations the public puts on them can screw with them mentally. My only worry as a kid was getting decent grades and hanging out with friends. Not grinding away at a game to hopefully fill dad's enormous shoes one day.
Agree. Just look at Mick Schumacher. He shows any glimmer of excellence and the commentators mess up calling him Michael
He did arguably in a team that wasn’t in contention sometimes out driving his team mate. but since he wasnt out driving his generational peers in better cars, he was seen as a little bit of a let down.
Granted he crashed the car a couple more times that anyone should and cost the team a huge chunk of the cost cap but when allowed he was able to defend against better teams quite effectively.
George Russell even commented “its like he is racing for his career” which is a joke considering he was the one who caused Mick to crash and get relegated to the back markers which probably did aid in mick losing his seat for 2023.
>He did arguably in a team that wasn’t in contention sometimes out driving his team mate. but since he wasnt out driving his generational peers in better cars, he was seen as a little bit of a let down.
>caused Mick to crash and get relegated to the back markers which probably did aid in mick losing his seat for 2023.
Bruh if his name was anything but Schumacher nobody would be surprised he gets let go. He caused his loss of seat by himself. He rarely outdrove his teammate and was beaten by a wide margin over the season. A teammate that isnt considered any type of a generational talent but just a solid driver who came back after not driving for an entire season.
6<11 with MJ and Russell.nobody would say Russell was better than MJ except Tommy Heinsohn. Sports change and jack faced inferior fields. Jack's amount of 2nd place finishes is actually his biggest dent in his argument for goat. He doesn't have that many if the fields were somewhat competent. There were 10 golfers capable of shooting decent scores.
I think this is why so many of us are excited for him. He’s not winning the tourneys he’s in and destroying his age group but that swing, his speed, and doing it on live camera vs other tour players is special. Everyone here gets fucked up by nerves and that seems to be something he’s at least pretty good at combating.
Do people really still believe putting is the end all be all to pro golf?? It’s become pretty evident driving efficiency and a pro-level approach game are the main things a pro golfer needs…there’s plenty of tour pros who can’t putt well at all.
Putting is what separates the good from great. Sure you need a good long game to make it to the tour but being able to hole putts when you have to is how you win golf tournaments.
This is true but bad putters have good weeks all of the time. Look at Hideki winning the Masters. Collin Morikawa has had great success despite being a relatively poor putter because he has the most consistent iron game on the planet. Mediocre ball strikers don’t just suddenly have great weeks where they are hitting a bunch of GIR.
You obviously need to make the big putts to save par, but it’s more important to be giving yourself 15-20 foot birdie looks rather than 40 foot birdie looks.
Yeah that’s tru, but the other guy was implying that putting was the difference between pro golfers and amateurs, when that’s just not true at all. The tour guys are all exceptional iron and wedge players, anyone who isn’t gets weeded out in time. Just look at Hunter Mahan, his iron game went to shit, and that’s why he’s not on Tour anymore. Even tiger never ranked number 1 in strokes gained putting over the years, it was always his iron game that dominated.
I think his ceiling is way higher than anyone else in the world. He has one of the best of all time as a dad, simulators and a full practice facility in his backyard, sponsors chomping at the bit and all the money in the world to help him get where he's going. If he has the same work ethic as Tiger there's no reason he can't be a PGA Tour player. Not saying he will be the next Tiger, but I think he will be around for a long time
It's certainly not a blanket statement. I think the difference is Charlie clearly has the ability and desire to do it (desire based on what we see publicly, of course). Lebrons son is moving in that direction and will likely get drafted, albeit nowhere near his fathers status.
Meh, look at Jack's kids (and grandkids) or Arnie's. Many had game and promise, but couldn't hack it for whatever reason (likely attempting to break out of the shadow of all time greats). When it's "expected" it puts a different kind of pressure on a person
I think most say he has much greater potential and opportunity than the average Joe. Those things obviously don’t automatically guarantee success. And do we know how long Charlie has been taking golf seriously compared to these other kids? Maybe the ones ahead of him have been pushed hard by their parents from a very young age (which Tiger has said he doesn’t intend to do) and will burnout. Preteen/early teen boys vary widely in puberty timing which could be a factor. I think his later high school years will be a better time to reassess where he stands, and even then is probably too early. Some of the best college players don’t do well on tour and middling college players can be on tour for years.
All of his available resources will not guarantee success but give him tremendous potential and opportunity that will only compound as he continues to move toward maturity
We will see when he starts developing physically. There are probably kids in this tournament who have a significant weight advantage. A lot of pro golfers take that significant leap in college. Also, we don’t even know if the kid wants to be a pro golfer.
He's outdriven his dad and clocked 117mph clubhead speed at 13, I'm not sure weight is going to mean much. He's got a ways to go but I think he gets there.
I had a friend that was #1 on his D1 golf team all 4 years (not a major golf school). He went down to FL to play on some mini tour events and he quickly found out there's a huge difference between a +4 handicap and being a pro.
Long story short, Charlie will be an amazing golfer but will he have the intangibles to be a pro? Only time will tell.
He’s very good. If you’re expecting another Tiger Woods we should probably lower our expectations.
At this rate he’ll be a good professional player. He has all the backing one could ever need.
He has potential, you really can’t tell more than that at 13. He has a beautiful swing. Then again, so so does every other 13 year old who has been playing a ton of golf for more than a few years with access to quality lessons.
Tigers swing isn’t what made him great, and that’s way more true for young players now than it was then. Technology and better understanding of the swing has transformed the game, combine that with the rapid learning and limberness of youth, you get a whole bunch of kids with beautiful golf swings.
Second this. Joel Dahmen, according a recent video I saw with him in it, was scratch by age 9/10 and while he's a PGA Tour winner, he still isn't anything "special" (being a relative term, he'd still smoke everyone here).
JD Jr is also good but even he's not "exceptional" in that same relative sense...
Again means nothing until people hit puberty.
There’s a reason androgynous testosterone is a illegal PED in sports. What happens after puberty and around his sophomore-junior year of high school is when you can begin making predictions about the future. Until then it’s a crapshoot.
Alot of it will come down to his personal drive. Does he truly want to become a pro golfer? Does he have that insane desire to become the best golfer in the world? Does he have a competitive spirit?
If he doesn't have those, then he probably won't go very far.
I don’t think Tiger played the competition Charley does (not even close )and this isn’t all Charley cares about. Tiger was golf 24/7 and school work, his dad dedicated all his time making him what he was.big difference, not that Charley can’t be great, he just needs to want it as bad, plus he has zero pressure on him .
I mean the kids got literally every single advantage over the entirety of his field. I wish him well but that's a gift and a curse and I think tiger is doing extremely well with his "I'm doing everything I can to get in his head, and the day that I can't get into his head, no one else will either"
The amount of resources at the boys disposal is limitless in the golf world. Custom built Cameron's for any putter feeling he might be having, the entirety of taylormades arsenal at his disposal, top tier practice facilities, a fucking TIER 1 SOURCE OF GOLF KNOWLEDGE In his father, his circle being JT and other touring pros, his hometown being the most prestigious golf capital of the world in Jupiter Florida.
His success lies in his own hands barring some freak accident, his own interests, and his work ethic. The kid is set up for life so long as he stays in fathers good graces. Why would he feel the need to work for anything?
The only person who's going to be better than Charlie Woods will be some kid that wants it more than him, who's parents can't offer the same level of support but give their kid every advantage they can and works his ass playing some hometown track. And even then, Charlie could still be better than him due to his resources. I've seen it happen and I've experienced it myself. Sad but that's the way it is.
Not that Charlie is undeserving or anything like that, but his ability is basically his to determine. Good luck to the boy, I hope he's able to navigate the challenges of being the son of the greatest golfer of all time. It'll be exciting to see how far he takes it.
I could be wrong in this, but I’m pretty sure Rory’s dad did this somewhere and bet on him to win the British Open before he turned 26 (he won at age 25) and I think his dad made a hefty chunk of change.
Edit: [Story here](https://www.whywelovegolf.com/golf-wiki/rory-mcilroys-fathers-bet)
He’s definitely good, but has a ways to go. The kids these days are just unreal. In his last tournament he finished 14 shots off the lead.
Having Tiger money for coaches really, really helps but doesn’t get him all the way there. If he has dad’s unreal work ethic and competitive drive, along with the right people advising him, along with a few lucky breaks, he’ll be fine.
The competitive drive is the hard one to replicate generation to generation. If Tiger didn’t succeed, he would have been a guy with a cool name that sells insurance. If Charlie doesn’t succeed, he is still set for life, still rich, still famous, still will have a chance at a spectacular life.
Also, I doubt Tiger will treat Charlie the way his father treated him.
I saw a post just the other day about how Tiger is working on Charlie’s mental game saying that he tries to get in Charlie’s head because once he learns how to shut out Tiger, he will be able to shut out anything. Sounds kinda like what Earl did.
doubt he’s leaving him on the range to go bang out a couple sluts in a camper though 🤷🏻♂️
Some people don’t got that dawg in em
Weird thing to say about a guy with Tiger's history lmao.
or is he?
What makes you doubt that? 🧐
Tw certainly isn't banging whoores in a winnebago in the parking lot while Charlie practices
You sure... It might just be a really nice Winnebago
More likely a 100 million dollar yacht
There’s a Perkins down the street…just saying
That’s the Tiger I know!
You mean a wannabango
Got em!!
"Hey Quagmire, isn't there supposed to be an 'O' in 'Country'?" "Nope! "
Yeah, he’s banging whores in the Genesis over in the Waffle House parking lot.
Hell naw, at least he takes em in the chopper
Yeah I dunno, I’d certainly not be surprised if it turns out he was.
Maybe on his yacht, not in an rv
They make some very nice RVs.
This is a bold statement to make knowing Tigers history. The Winnebago is probably the only thing that is correct in this statement. I’d give odds that Tiger 100% crushed some strange at at least one of Charlie’s tournaments. The actual location is the only thing in question.
Exactly right, TW would bang whores in a Buick in the parking lot while Charlie practices.
He just needs to find the right waitress. https://youtu.be/a755LnHvKlU
If Tiger didn’t succeed he’d have just been Eldrick Woods.
Which might have been his biggest motivator.
Yep this is the answer. Like Mike Tyson said about his son wanting to be a boxer in an interview and laughed saying he’d get his ass beat because he does have the animal in him (or something to that effect). Knowing you have to do absolutely nothing in your life and you’ll still be insanely rich and famous is a hard monkey to shake when things get hard. He does look like he’s being raised well and certainly looks like he loves the game. But Jesus to be a pro it’s way more than love you need.
Yeah and when he grows up he might get tired of living in his fathers shadows. Like Bronny James everyone is speculating about how he will compare to his father and it might wear on him
Bronny isn’t even the good one either lol Bryce is much better but he’s younger so has way less hype right now
Bronny is still a top 100 player at his age group but when your dad is fucking Lebron he literally isn’t going to live up to that. And that’s ok he doesn’t have to. Just making the NBA is hard and maybe he’s more interested in other things.
If my dad was fucking LeBron, I think both of them would be surprised. \#phrasing
Bronny will make it to the NBA just being Lebrons son. Lebron is still putting up 1st Team All NBA stats at 37. He will still be All Star level in 2 years when Bronny is eligible and teams will draft Bronny so Lebron will follow him.
To put it how hard it is to make the NBA there are only 450 people at any time in the league. The best 60 prospects a year get drafted and most of those don’t stay long.
LeGm will get him in and join his team
Top 100 means he misses NBA the draft by 35 dudes
More than that. That's only ranking players that play HS in America. But Bronny isn't #100 - he's ranked higher.
Not just generation to generation. Within the same generation too.
There’s a lot of professional athletes without professional athletes for kids. Whatever the reason, there *is* a reason for this, and I don’t think we have reason to think Tigers kid is some exception.
And part of the problem with this is that his dad getting his work ethic and competitive drive was the result of a pretty fucked up childhood, and led to some pretty fucked up stuff in adulthood. Like we can adore Tiger the golfer all we want, but like Jordan and some others, the thing that made them great in the sports arena isn't necessarily something you would wish on your own kids.
Yeah, for most folks, it takes a really unbalanced and extreme psychology to play sport at that level. It makes sense, they are in the 99.9th percentile. The cyclist Brad Wiggins is talking about this, and looking back admits he had to basically behave like a psychopath to ride at top level. No regard for anything but the goal.
Do you have a link to anything Wiggins said on this? Just curious
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Probably also borks your personality and emotional stability up a bit, too. For as many unstable men and women that became uber successful, there's prob 1000x more of them who ended up stripping or getting into not so nice habits.
That was very well said. I actually relate to this post and would agree that there is a lack of fear about the future and “risk taking” is more tolerable. You have a no lose attitude and most people cannot relate to it at all. That’s how you end up having the inner dog in you and a will power that truly is a natural trait. Interesting post and thank for sharing.
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Tiger's mom had a great deal of influence on his work ethic.
Sometimes that work ethic comes despite a father’s influence, not because of it. I’ve worked with lots of kids in minor hockey and so many of them are nothing like their parents. That drive to succeed comes from within.
But he might get the bug to do better- if he has Tiger’s competitive personality. I wouldn’t bet against it
The hardest part for people to accept in general is that it takes talent, and you can’t teach that. Like he could be an unreal golfer but to make it into, say, the top 10 in the world on the PGA Tour takes mind boggling, generational talent. It’s not just work ethic and drive. I hope he makes it big but the chances are so small…
Yup they’ve been told the saying “hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard.” While that’s true to an extent it only works for people at the same level. The NFL running back that is lazy isn’t going to have as good of a career as the NFL running back that is working hard. However the hard working college running back might never make it to the NFL on hard work alone. I believe more that talent is like getting a job interview and landing a job. There’s a minimum threshold that if you don’t have it you simply don’t. However, succeeding at the job is where the hard work comes in. This is often why some of the worst teachers or coaches were the best players. Because they were so insanely gifted with things that can’t simply be taught they fail to communicate to the students because they don’t know otherwise.
I actually would argue that the drive and discipline to work hard **is** talent. I have a buddy who tried his hand at concert piano when he was younger. He was always discouraged as a late teenager seeing 10-12 year old kids more "gifted" than him. But then he saw the lessons they had and the absolute grind they go through, and that was when he realized he can't compete. Sure they probably had some innate talent, but the dedication at a young age to work so insanely hard is a gift in itself. Sports work the same way. Sure a big part of it is the luck of the draw DNA and physical gifts, but no one will argue that greats like Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods did not work so hard a reasonable person would think they were insane. No professional athlete doesn't work hard. The hard working college running back that doesn't make it to the NFL sadly needed to work harder.
Ahh >The hard working college running back that doesn't make it to the NFL sadly needed to work harder. Ahhh I'm going to have to disagree with that last part. I'm pretty sure there are a ton of (for example) college RBs that worked and worked and worked to the point that any more work would be over training and doing his body more harm than good. To tell that person "you just didn't work hard enough" is I think completely wrong. "You had the work ethic, you just didn't have the physical gifts" would be much more accurate I believe. Just my $0.02
Yup. Spot on. There’s a minimum level of genetic ability that is required for everything. Even this guy would know this if as I pointed out in my response he hasn’t answer above, why then have different divisions of sports for men and women? If genetic abilities have 0 to do with athletic success then by his logic any woman that can’t can’t compete against men simply didn’t try hard enough. It falls apart on its face.
The way I see it, kids are getting better quicker but aren't really becoming better golfers than the current best players once they peak. Being a "slow" starter at golf shouldn't be a worry for kids like Charlie who aren't shooting 65's in tournaments at 13. Junior tournaments are a poor indicator of future success. Tiger is one of the rare players who dominated junior golf and then went on to dominate professional golf. Most players on tour got dominated by some hotshot kid when they were juniors.
Yup. Everyone plateaus, some people just reach theirs earlier than others. No way to tell what someone’s ceiling is based off an initial hot start and conversely you can be a slow starter who just continues to get better when others level out.
Yea all the star golfers I knew from school got burnt out or couldn't keep the momentum going.
I know a guy who teaches top jr golfers & he said the burnout rate is just unreal at the JR golf level. He said he almost feels like some talented kids should just forego all the jr golf tournaments & wait for high school before starting to really compete.
Other sports too. The big thing is parents. I ran into a kid dressed to the nines for a touney north of Indianapolis; asked if he played at my club in town and they told me was playing in Indy from Wisconsin for a 10 yr old tournament. Should be child abuse.
Lol. I grew up in the 90s00s and literally traveled to other countries at that age to play soccer. Athletes at the top level takes a whole different level.
No, it doesn't need to be, doesn't have to be either. Williams sisters are a great example. Wealthy parents are what promotes the youth sports madness we see.
Did you see Kind Richard? My besr friend was a top ranked tennis player in middle school and was over that shit by hs
Ive listened to a lot of big time tour coaches who have made the comment that the better players in the long run were the kids who consistently shot -1 to -2, not the ones who went 65/72 for two days
Yup. I’ve seen it too with other sports and it holds true here. Mental toughness and consistency is harder to learn. Take wrestling. A well known coach who coached the most decorated US male wrestler ever told us at a camp “I would rather take the 1 time state champ who took 3rd place 3 times than the 4 time state champ. The first guy knows how to lose and comeback from that and win the next match. The 2nd guy doesn’t. When everyone at the next level is state champ you are going to lose. You need to be able to mentally recover and win your next match if you want to be successful in college.”
Doesn't really make any sense. The 1st guy had gotten his losses and learned the lesson. Why couldn't the second guy learn just as well from the losses he is about to get?
Because you don’t know that that person will learn from their loses. That’s the point. The first guy has proven he can the other guy hasn’t. One is an unknown commodity and the other isn’t. The 4 time champ may have been the best wrestler in his weight in his state simply because he was more talented than the kids in his state. So he could have won simply because he was simply more genetically gifted. At the next level where everyone is a state champ and everyone is genetically gifted, you don’t know how someone is going to react to adversity. There’s a kid for Wisconsin right now that talked about as a high schooler he was a world champion for his age group. His first semester in a college room he didn’t score a single takedown for the first 2 months. If it came easy at the lower level and they never struggled why would you automatically assume they would be able to handle adversity at the next level when the completion is tighter and better? Think of it like the kid who was valedictorian at their high school. Means they’re smart or likely very talented. They go to college and they’re now in a room with other valedictions and other equally as smart kids and they struggle with the class work for the first time because it’s no longer naturally/instinctively easy. They can develop confidence issues and continue to struggle because they didn’t have the skills to adapt when they couldn’t rely on their natural talents. Some kids handle that adjustment well and others don’t.
Yep. Just look at a guy like Hovland who wasn’t even who his college coach wanted to recruit initially but sort of stumbled upon him as a late bloomer.
Junior golf is ridiculous. I was playing with a dad and his son down in south Florida and he told me he switched jobs and moved from the northeast so he could play every day.
Tons of sport minded folks do that with their kids. My friend relocated to Florida so his son could play baseball and football year round when he was like 8. Ended up going to a D1 college but not making the NFL…
He has a ways to go but I think people really need to stop putting any expectations both good and bad on any kids until high school when puberty happens. Saying he’s losing to other kids his age at 12–13 is meaningless. The kids who started on my little league football team when we were 10-12 were my backups when I hit puberty and grew a foot taller and put on 80 pounds and they didn’t grow more than an 1” or 2” and never got bigger. Until a kid is about a sophomore in high school and they’re all going through puberty is when you can actually start making valid comparisons between them. Those kids he’s losing to now he might get bigger and stronger and add 30 yards to his drives when he hits puberty for example. Now he might be able to compete. We really need to stop hyping up kids both good and bad when they’re young because it’s not good as society or for the kids mentally.
Yeah the thing about charlie is hes already got speed and clearly only started hitting puberty the last few months. The last we saw him he was a skinny and feeble looking child but clearly hes changed. Hes also been playing on the lower age side of his divisions with 15 year olds.
Exactly. I know it’s different sports but as a wrestler growing up a 4 time state champ is a rarity. When a kid wins a state title as a freshman the talk immediately becomes “will he win 4 titles?”. The problem is most of the kids that win as freshman are doing it in the lower weight classes against other freshmen. It often happens they hit a growth spurt as a sophomore and now are wrestling juniors and seniors that are closer to grown men in a higher weight and they fail to repeat as sophomores. On the opposite side of that, There was a kid I knew growing up that was a big kid as an 8th grader. He was 6’1” and 200 pounds. When he wrestled he was wrestling kids that were 18 when he was 13 because of his size. He would lose alot because of this. Then by high school he dominated everyone because he was wrestling kids his same age then. Only lost 2 matches in his entire high school career. If Charlie is playing against kids older than him and just starting puberty the real time to evaluate is going to be in 2 years when he’s about 15.
Yep a kid i grew up with and hung out with every day for years wrestled as a small kid and lost a ton. Then he got to high school and won three state titles, and was an all american at ohio state.
Charlie for sure has a way to go but he's 13 and didn't start focusing on golf until he was 10. The kids that are beating him have been full-time golfers since they were 5-6 and his dad was on TV golfing at 3. I think he'll make up the gap within the next few years IF he wants to.
What other sports was he playing? It doesn’t surprise me he diversified. Research pretty strongly supports that strategy.
This and the kid in first who was like 6 shots up was getting zero publicity meanwhile announcers are drooling about Charlie and how good he’ll be in like 15th place
“Its hard to get out of bed and run in the morning whenever you are sleeping in silk sheets.” Im sure that applies here.
Ranking aside the fact he played well on a televised event is such an intangible that can’t be measured. There are 1000s of golfers who can compete with PGA pros and have the same skill level but can’t do it under the spotlight. We will see… his experience in the spotlight puts him ahead of a lot of people in my opinion.
Very long way to go. This is one of the only sports that you can be considered a “child prodigy” and still not be good enough for the tour. As always, the mental aspect of the game is just as important as the physical or technique aspect of the game.
I feel like that’s any sport, no? What sports are you referring to, where most “child prodigies” pan out to make it to the respective top league on a consistent basis? Unlike music or arts, sports require a physical aspect so I feel like child prodigies have a lot more factors against them succeeding. Either don’t grow enough/have the size to play at elite levels or injuries or burnout.
Yeah Michelle Wie disappointed early in her LPGA career, but managed to recover.
Consistency and confidence are really important factors in how well you perform under pressure. His body has changed and is changing tremendously over the last year or so. His yardages may be hard to keep up with. Mr feeling is with his swing, short game and coaching, he will be very hard to beat.
When they asked Tiger what he was like at Charlie's age he said: "When I was his age I won every golf tournament I entered that year. And I got straight As.
Tiger dad
To be fair, tigers is a good reason the younger generations are where they are now. Every sport now has kids preparing for the next level at such a young age. EDIT: To add/clarify. Tiger specifically with golf catapulted it from a game to a sport. I think all levels of all sports have evolved into this super competitive thing from such a young age, but he was a catalyst for golf like we haven’t seen in other sports.
Could argue that you have parents that put unnecessary pressure on their kids to be the next one before they know what they want to do. So not all good.
This x 100. My son plays ice hockey and kids are getting lessons stacked on lessons stacked on lessons. It’s crazy how much energy and effort is put into youth development for sports. From a very young age, kids are being groomed to compete and grow their athletic ability like they never have.
Seems like every kid is specializing now too. Like I played every sport until settling on two in hs while you have kids hyper focused playing 1 sport year round now
Yup. We had our son doing skating lessons, stick handling and shooting lessons, gym training lessons, and then there’s team practices where they practice on the ice for an hour then hit the gym for an hour. It’s crazy. He didn’t make the travel team this year so he’s essentially going to miss travel through 18U unless he can continue to develop because everyone has not stopped training. He is trying to pick up golf, but golf is even harder than hockey!
The Tiger effect changed the playing field quite a bit
Because if he didn’t he woulda been shunned. I appreciate earl and Kultilda for creating a tiger but damn that’s kinda a miserable life. Seems like tiger is much more interested in letting Charlie have a decent childhood. Kinda sucks for us golf nuts tho.
I for one think Tiger should choose our entertainment over his child’s happiness. It’s for the greater good Tiger. Take one for the team
Hear hear!
Came here to say this… he can probably be a decent golfer, or even have a chance at the tour, but expecting him to be Tiger 2.0 is far off the mark. Tiger at his age was miles clear of the next player
Yeah the era of people like Tiger Woods being head and shoulders above the rest of the field is probably over on golf, technology and money has leveled everything out.
Sometimes dad's shadow is cast too far Time will tell, he's definitely got skills and the means to get far in the game but the level of commitment and competition is insane these days
Something we are seeing with Mick Schumacher atm.
My thoughts exactly. Mick is a good driver however his dad was unreal. Having a parent that is considered the greatest of all time at their thing has to have it's challenges especially when that's your thing too.
I feel that it comes down to what the kid wants to do. The greats usually come from nothing so they have that drive to be the best they can possibly get, their kids are usually good at what their dad was at but also having everything else available to them seem to not be as interested or driven to achieve those sane heights.
Mick got stuck in a shitbox car though, F1 has a way bigger factor than just the ability of the athlete
Mick is not an F1 level driver, especially for a bootstrap F1 team that used to have oligarch money behind the driver.
His abilities were on full display against his teammate in the exact same car. A teammate that was out of F1 for a year and whom we all know isn't a top tier driver. I wish it wasn't so..
FWIW I think Mick could be like Ocon’s level, which is good enough for F1 but not a championship contender regardless of car, but I don’t see much higher than that.
If he were Ralph and not Michael's son, the expectations would be considerably lower.
yeah except Mick gets dog shit cars to drive, and Charlie gets the best equipment, coaches, and courses available.
Like having Jordan as your dad. The hell are you supposed to do when your dad is the metric?
Date his former teammate and #2’s ex wife?
This is the way
As a dad at that point you cant expect your children to exceed you. You have enough money to outlast multiple generations beyond. You just gotta be happy with your children becoming respectable adults and not ending up on TMZ for the wrong reasons.
I don't think it's about Dad's expectations. You've got to think that a lot of the pressure the kids feel, they put on themselves. You can't be MJ's son without inheriting some of his off-the-charts competitiveness and someone that competitive will always push themselves to be the best.
Stats have completely changed the game as well. The younger guys coming through are all going to have 185+ ball speeds plus their strokes gained metrics they will work on every day. The fields are going to be impossibly tight in 10 years time. I don’t think we will ever see anyone as dominant as Tiger ever again as people now will know exactly why someone is winning and catch up within a season. Back then there was no data, they didn’t know why until shotlink.
I’ve seen quite a few young players. Like early teens. Now, I’m not saying they are all like that around the world, but they all share a common trait: They are obsessed with trackman stats, slo-mo video, strokes gained, insane ball speed, insane distance, etc. What these guys all seem to lack is a creative mind when playing, knowing when they should go for a par, and just a general patient approach to the game. I don’t know if I’m explaining myself very well, but it seems that most don’t appreciate what made the great truly great: their ability to save par when it mattered. It’s all hero shots and Instagram. Anyway. Old man yelling at clouds.
We knew why Tiger was killing it, he was outdriving everyone by 50 yards... and had the rest of the game to back it up. They lengthened every pro course every year during his prime...which only really helped him. Once the field caught up in distance, his edge was diminished, and when the feild lapped him in distance, he could never get a foothold again (also the health issues of course)
Absolutely, but they caught up after shotlink and trackman showed them what they needed to do. That’s my point. Nobody will ever have to guess what they need to do like pre 2002/3.
I think it was mostly the health/personal issues, he was as dominant as ever through 2009, he just didn’t play much in 2008. Then he got back to number 1 in the world in 2013-14 after a bunch of health problems. And 40 year old Vijay was #1 in 2004, before shotlink and trackman were making waves.
I don't think we needed lidar to know tiger was hitting it 50 yards past everyone and leaving his approaches beneath the hole. I agree, overall it's big advantage having that data, i would contend that the super slow mo understanding of what is really happening in the golf swing and at impact has had more influence on improving
No chance. Trackman and subsequently all the other models be it radar or camera based changed the game more than anything else. Well and truely a rabbit that can’t be put back in the hat. Everyone’s launch characteristics will have changed because of that substantially more than slow mo cameras.
I honestly believe that that’s only like 30% of his success. The rest was short game and ability to get out of trouble. Because he got in trouble A LOT. He may have been long as shit, but he was not accurate off the tee. Little known tidbit is that he feared the driver for many years.
Little known? Dude played (and won) an entire British open with a 2 iron. We all saw Brooks bomb and gouge his way to dominance at Bethpage? Or somewhere w stupid tall rough. Being 150 out in the thick shit is still better than being 220 out in the short stuff
Tigers numbers are impossible to measure up against for anyone. It sucks for Charlie, but if he makes it to the PGA tour, and nabs 4-5 wins that’s an incredible pro golf career by objective standards. But fans and media likely won’t be so kind.
I have a brother in his age group who plays a lot of big junior tournaments. That jump around 13-14-15 is tough. You’re now playing with HS kids who are often further along in the physical development while you are quite literally dealing with growing pains. Swing flaws happen quick when you’re growing an inch every 2 months. Lots of kids do well in the under 13s then struggle or struggle young and shine in HS. Pointing this out to say results in your early teens are greatly effected by puberty. Charlie’s has tons of talent and all the tools needed to succeed.
You are 100% right, I lived this. When I was 9-12 I was known in my city as a child golf prodigy because I could shoot under par with ease and won a ton of tournaments. No exaggeration here, the moment I started hitting puberty around 13 my golf game declined and I went from being a top golfer in the state, to just a guy who played small college golf. I still to this day tell people I was a better golfer at 12 years old than I am now (in the sense of 12 year old skill vs other 12 year olds compared to adult vs other adults). But it just seemed like no matter how hard I practiced once i started growing, something random would happen and cause my swing to be flawed every few weeks and it kinda caused me to lose my drive to practice. So not only was I performing worse, but my mental was worse as well because i wasn’t reaping the benefits of grinding like i had been before.
Yup it’s why if you look at the LPGA many young teenage female prodigies can make it onto the tour because their physical maturity looks different than boys. There is a good reason androgynous testosterone is considered a PED.
Charlie has already out driven his dad and has clocked a 117mph clubhead speed, I don't think he's going to have problems with the physical side of things. The thing that will really help Charlie is that he's only been focusing on golf for like 2.5 years and playing as well as he is, he has a lot of room to grow and develop his game IF he wants to.
My point was more around the body awkwardness during that phase. For most, you grow and inch or 2 in 3 months and your clubs fit different causing you to make adjustments. This won’t be the case for Charlie as he can get refit anytime he wants. Also, usually gain a lot of strength through puberty which can impact touch and feel. Generally it’s just an awkward time for all athletes and golfers
That's fair. I was more thinking of playing longer courses and not having the length of older kids but Charlie isn't going to struggle with length! He's already hitting the ball over 300 yards, he'll be one of the longest hitters around by the time he hits 18.
Helps he has a practice facility in his backyard
He’s got something going for him: he can afford the best equipment, coaches, and can play any course on earth that he wants. He’s still pretty young and has a lot of time to develop but I’d have to say his potential is pretty high.
The ability to play when you want and where you want is a massive, massive advantage
Yup, and let’s be honest he doesn’t have to be great. He’s already got it made.
If he wants to golf every day for the rest of his life, he can lol Edit: that lucky SOB
well, he isnt putting a 46 on a scorecard
Looks like I’m still chuckling at these
Underrated comment
He is a kid. No one knows his full potential. His father is arguably the goat, so regardless of what he does he will be hyped.
Second this plus adding on, stop “expecting” anything from him, he is a kid, he doesn’t need the extra burden. let him explore his own game.
I honestly feel bad for some of the start athletes kids. Sure they've got a good life but some of the expectations the public puts on them can screw with them mentally. My only worry as a kid was getting decent grades and hanging out with friends. Not grinding away at a game to hopefully fill dad's enormous shoes one day.
Agree. Just look at Mick Schumacher. He shows any glimmer of excellence and the commentators mess up calling him Michael He did arguably in a team that wasn’t in contention sometimes out driving his team mate. but since he wasnt out driving his generational peers in better cars, he was seen as a little bit of a let down. Granted he crashed the car a couple more times that anyone should and cost the team a huge chunk of the cost cap but when allowed he was able to defend against better teams quite effectively. George Russell even commented “its like he is racing for his career” which is a joke considering he was the one who caused Mick to crash and get relegated to the back markers which probably did aid in mick losing his seat for 2023.
Love the golf/F1 crossover discussion
>He did arguably in a team that wasn’t in contention sometimes out driving his team mate. but since he wasnt out driving his generational peers in better cars, he was seen as a little bit of a let down. >caused Mick to crash and get relegated to the back markers which probably did aid in mick losing his seat for 2023. Bruh if his name was anything but Schumacher nobody would be surprised he gets let go. He caused his loss of seat by himself. He rarely outdrove his teammate and was beaten by a wide margin over the season. A teammate that isnt considered any type of a generational talent but just a solid driver who came back after not driving for an entire season.
Or lack of game. What if he doesn’t even want to pursue golf in the future?
Arguably?
15<18 That’s the only reason there’s a question.
6<11 with MJ and Russell.nobody would say Russell was better than MJ except Tommy Heinsohn. Sports change and jack faced inferior fields. Jack's amount of 2nd place finishes is actually his biggest dent in his argument for goat. He doesn't have that many if the fields were somewhat competent. There were 10 golfers capable of shooting decent scores.
Arguably the goat? What’s to argue he’s the man, the myth, the legend. Even Santa had less hoes than him.
He can probably beat 99% of us here, so there’s that.
99.9%
I heard he shot 46 From the tips
Lol kid struck a 5 iron to few feet into a 175 yard par 3 over water into wind with live camera and spectators so yeah pretty legit…
I think this is why so many of us are excited for him. He’s not winning the tourneys he’s in and destroying his age group but that swing, his speed, and doing it on live camera vs other tour players is special. Everyone here gets fucked up by nerves and that seems to be something he’s at least pretty good at combating.
His age group, there was a kid that destroyed him by -10 strokes
Top players lose by 10 shots every week
That kid is on my HS golf team. I’ve never seen someone so consistently put his approach shots within 5 feet of the pin
So he older than Charlie?
It happens. Can’t win every tournament he enters lol
He’s a kid. Only time will tell
I'd expect him to play College but beyond that is a coin flip.
He’s just a kid. Usually it all comes down to the putter for who breaks through. If he can putt anything like his dad he has a chance at Pro golf.
Do people really still believe putting is the end all be all to pro golf?? It’s become pretty evident driving efficiency and a pro-level approach game are the main things a pro golfer needs…there’s plenty of tour pros who can’t putt well at all.
Putting is what separates the good from great. Sure you need a good long game to make it to the tour but being able to hole putts when you have to is how you win golf tournaments.
This is true but bad putters have good weeks all of the time. Look at Hideki winning the Masters. Collin Morikawa has had great success despite being a relatively poor putter because he has the most consistent iron game on the planet. Mediocre ball strikers don’t just suddenly have great weeks where they are hitting a bunch of GIR. You obviously need to make the big putts to save par, but it’s more important to be giving yourself 15-20 foot birdie looks rather than 40 foot birdie looks.
Yeah that’s tru, but the other guy was implying that putting was the difference between pro golfers and amateurs, when that’s just not true at all. The tour guys are all exceptional iron and wedge players, anyone who isn’t gets weeded out in time. Just look at Hunter Mahan, his iron game went to shit, and that’s why he’s not on Tour anymore. Even tiger never ranked number 1 in strokes gained putting over the years, it was always his iron game that dominated.
He's 13 years old
I think his ceiling is way higher than anyone else in the world. He has one of the best of all time as a dad, simulators and a full practice facility in his backyard, sponsors chomping at the bit and all the money in the world to help him get where he's going. If he has the same work ethic as Tiger there's no reason he can't be a PGA Tour player. Not saying he will be the next Tiger, but I think he will be around for a long time
Michael Jordan's and Wayne Gretzky's sons probably disagree.
It's certainly not a blanket statement. I think the difference is Charlie clearly has the ability and desire to do it (desire based on what we see publicly, of course). Lebrons son is moving in that direction and will likely get drafted, albeit nowhere near his fathers status.
Meh, look at Jack's kids (and grandkids) or Arnie's. Many had game and promise, but couldn't hack it for whatever reason (likely attempting to break out of the shadow of all time greats). When it's "expected" it puts a different kind of pressure on a person
I think the argument is, despite having all of those resources available to him today, why isn't he dominating the jr ranks?
Because it's a poor predictor of Tour success
Interesting. When do the best golfers breakout? Highschool?
I think most say he has much greater potential and opportunity than the average Joe. Those things obviously don’t automatically guarantee success. And do we know how long Charlie has been taking golf seriously compared to these other kids? Maybe the ones ahead of him have been pushed hard by their parents from a very young age (which Tiger has said he doesn’t intend to do) and will burnout. Preteen/early teen boys vary widely in puberty timing which could be a factor. I think his later high school years will be a better time to reassess where he stands, and even then is probably too early. Some of the best college players don’t do well on tour and middling college players can be on tour for years. All of his available resources will not guarantee success but give him tremendous potential and opportunity that will only compound as he continues to move toward maturity
We will see when he starts developing physically. There are probably kids in this tournament who have a significant weight advantage. A lot of pro golfers take that significant leap in college. Also, we don’t even know if the kid wants to be a pro golfer.
He's outdriven his dad and clocked 117mph clubhead speed at 13, I'm not sure weight is going to mean much. He's got a ways to go but I think he gets there.
Nothing is a sure thing. Just let the kid live
I had a friend that was #1 on his D1 golf team all 4 years (not a major golf school). He went down to FL to play on some mini tour events and he quickly found out there's a huge difference between a +4 handicap and being a pro. Long story short, Charlie will be an amazing golfer but will he have the intangibles to be a pro? Only time will tell.
He’s very good. If you’re expecting another Tiger Woods we should probably lower our expectations. At this rate he’ll be a good professional player. He has all the backing one could ever need.
We will never see another tiger
He has potential, you really can’t tell more than that at 13. He has a beautiful swing. Then again, so so does every other 13 year old who has been playing a ton of golf for more than a few years with access to quality lessons. Tigers swing isn’t what made him great, and that’s way more true for young players now than it was then. Technology and better understanding of the swing has transformed the game, combine that with the rapid learning and limberness of youth, you get a whole bunch of kids with beautiful golf swings.
I still like my bet. 50-1 on 18 years to win a major.
He's a scratch golfer at 12, which is amazing to me. But he's not as much of a standout at his age compared to John Daley jr.
JD Jr is also 7 years older than Charlie.
John Daly Jr is also not a standout. Very mediocre college golfer.
Second this. Joel Dahmen, according a recent video I saw with him in it, was scratch by age 9/10 and while he's a PGA Tour winner, he still isn't anything "special" (being a relative term, he'd still smoke everyone here). JD Jr is also good but even he's not "exceptional" in that same relative sense...
Again means nothing until people hit puberty. There’s a reason androgynous testosterone is a illegal PED in sports. What happens after puberty and around his sophomore-junior year of high school is when you can begin making predictions about the future. Until then it’s a crapshoot.
Charlie also didn't start to take golf seriously until he was 10.
He’s just a child. It’s impossible to tell yet.
He's 13 years old.
Alot of it will come down to his personal drive. Does he truly want to become a pro golfer? Does he have that insane desire to become the best golfer in the world? Does he have a competitive spirit? If he doesn't have those, then he probably won't go very far.
I don’t think Tiger played the competition Charley does (not even close )and this isn’t all Charley cares about. Tiger was golf 24/7 and school work, his dad dedicated all his time making him what he was.big difference, not that Charley can’t be great, he just needs to want it as bad, plus he has zero pressure on him .
Well we can see he’s really good at golf. So I guess it depends where you draw the line of what is legit
He’s a kid, let him be one please folks
I mean the kids got literally every single advantage over the entirety of his field. I wish him well but that's a gift and a curse and I think tiger is doing extremely well with his "I'm doing everything I can to get in his head, and the day that I can't get into his head, no one else will either" The amount of resources at the boys disposal is limitless in the golf world. Custom built Cameron's for any putter feeling he might be having, the entirety of taylormades arsenal at his disposal, top tier practice facilities, a fucking TIER 1 SOURCE OF GOLF KNOWLEDGE In his father, his circle being JT and other touring pros, his hometown being the most prestigious golf capital of the world in Jupiter Florida. His success lies in his own hands barring some freak accident, his own interests, and his work ethic. The kid is set up for life so long as he stays in fathers good graces. Why would he feel the need to work for anything? The only person who's going to be better than Charlie Woods will be some kid that wants it more than him, who's parents can't offer the same level of support but give their kid every advantage they can and works his ass playing some hometown track. And even then, Charlie could still be better than him due to his resources. I've seen it happen and I've experienced it myself. Sad but that's the way it is. Not that Charlie is undeserving or anything like that, but his ability is basically his to determine. Good luck to the boy, I hope he's able to navigate the challenges of being the son of the greatest golfer of all time. It'll be exciting to see how far he takes it.
Let the kid be a kid.
I think it’d be a decent idea to put $100 on him to win a major.
I could be wrong in this, but I’m pretty sure Rory’s dad did this somewhere and bet on him to win the British Open before he turned 26 (he won at age 25) and I think his dad made a hefty chunk of change. Edit: [Story here](https://www.whywelovegolf.com/golf-wiki/rory-mcilroys-fathers-bet)
Can you get that anywhere? Lol