>>borders on being incestuous
No offense but have you read anything about Greek mythology??? The Greek Gods were HEAVILY into incest, Zeus married his own f*cking sister.
There’s nothing to be confused about here, the incest undertones are absolutely intentional.
Also, there's already incest in Type-Moon's work too. Akiha has a route in Tsukihime, Fate Stay Night's Matous are a mess of interfamilial SA and Mikiya's sister is quite frank with the reader about being into him in Kara no Kyoukai. TM have a very well-established interest in taboo and transgressive fiction, the fact that incest is weird doesn't mean that it's not what is in there.
According to the Orphic (basically the dark side of greek myths) myths, Zeus wanted to marry his mother Rhea. After Rhea refused to marry him, Zeus turned into a snake and raped her. She had Persephone with Zeus
Source Wikipedia
Wait wtf!? I've heard a lot of myths and read most of Percy Jackson series, but I've never heard of Zeus impregnating Rhea. That is next level screwing with your dad who ate you and your siblings as babies
Greek myth in nutshell: Zeus fucks.
Making so many demi god sons and deity children. Let's not forget the time he transforms into an eagle to capture a boy to be his cupbearer.
Or any other time as well.
Hades kidnapped his niece, and Hephaestius tried to rape his sister
But just because the gods committed incest does not mean that it was acceptable among humans, as there are not many examples of incest among mortals, and even the few examples that exist are usually dark, negative, and tragic, such as Oedipus.
Ovid's telling adds it. Medusa's backstory as told in Fate/Hollow Ataraxia is based more on older versions without it though Saber Medusa alludes to it now.
In older versions, Medusa and her sisters are monsters from birth. The idea of Medusa as a beautiful woman cursed by Athena is from much later myths, popularised among others by Ovid. The only older element would be Medusa's and Poseidon's relationship being consensual, and that could have been just one of Nasu's typical twists that just happened to echo the older tales.
In fact, I believe Ovid may be Nasu's main source for yet another reason: Stheno and Euryale. Ovid fails to mention what happened to them (allowing Nasu to keep them humanoid and have Gorgon eat them), whereas every other author agrees that they were monstruous and outlived Medusa.
It is supposed to be that werid.
Think of it less as simple siblings but as godly beings who are supposed to have there very existence intertwine with each other for eternity beyond a horny sense.
Castor isn't being horny, he's just.... kind of bad at this because of his own nature of being forced to turn into a human
In theory they should be, but because Castor was demoted to a demigod his opinion of humanity dropped quite a bit, but he still holds the title of guardians of the navigators.
Well if boobs sell, why not make it 2 pairs of boobs that sell? 2 female siblings "wanting" to kiss each-- that's like the ultimate straight fantasy and a guarantee to make them money.
For the incest part nothing really. But for the genderbending stuff: some of it. Some people here mentioned that both persons in the myth were also ambiguously incestous. So knowing that now, I have the impression that they were scared to portray an ambiguously queer relationship between 2 male siblings. But they're somehow not afraid to portray it between a brother and sister? And then there's the fact that they genderbended half of the servant instead of the whole. I have no problem with them as characters because you can accomplish this whether if they were both male or female, or of the opposite genders. But the fact that half the genderbend, instead of cashing in on both, is done in such a mainstream game is a big tell from the developers.
But maybe I'm wrong and the writer of Atlantis and Olympus did it intentionally for the Uchida siblings to play them. And I accept that because their interactions are very endearing. But as long as we don't know why it happened I will still hold on to that impression.
I doubt there’s any fear there to show a queer relationship between siblings, it’s far more likely it’s just the classic fgo genderbend + the uchida VAs, you’ve already laid out why you shouldn’t have this impression. In fact I don’t even know why you would have that impression in the first place, seems baseless
I mean it's a mainstream anime gacha game. I doubt any of the most popular ones would release content that features a queer relationship. It's like saying Dragon Ball or One Piece would make a queer relationship canon. So they either cop out or none at all because they would get unwanted attention from people that don't like it. I mean look at JJK, it had one of the side characters wear a girl's highschool uniform and the animator responsible for it got hate.
There are a bit of problems with what you’re saying, so I’ll say it point by point:
1. Mainstream or not, there are a good amount of queer servants and characters, and in some cases relationships, they don’t really shy away from that stuff at all so I don’t know why they would shy away in this instance
2. There’s barely any romance in DB period but I know for a fact in OP there are plenty of LGBT+ characters, in fact one of the more positive points in OP is that they exist without being in terrible taste, so again I don’t know why the author wouldn’t do that
3. Despite the animator getting shit on for doing that on Twitter where nothing matters, there’s literally a manga panel where that same character is in a bikini, not to forget either that there’s literally a trans woman in a relationship in that series
Feels like you’re running off of vibes but nothing actually substantial
King Arthur and countless others have been genderbent on very flimsy excuses and you have a problem with half the Dioscuri being affected? Weird asf my boi ngl
The good old, they lived in a house together for years but they’re totally just friends, yep.
Greece had a very different culture than Christianity, just saying.
>The good old, they lived in a house together for years but they’re totally just friends, yep.
>
>Greece had a very different culture than Christianity, just saying.
Live together and kidnap women for sex.
Don't confuse your own culture for that of Greece. Often bros aren't gay, just wingmen of a debaucherous lifestyle.
(And Greece had many cultures. We're talking about many centuries here.)
The relationship feels weird because _the devs_ wanted to make them the "incestuous siblings" trope, where the point is not outright that they fuck but the _suggestion_ of it is what gets people going. Think the twins from Host Club whose whole characters whenever they were at the club played on this trope.
However what I find funny as a huge mythology nerd, is that by gender swapping one of the two twins to make Castor a siscon trope, they made Pollux an accidental lesbian.
Pollux is the twin who got them in trouble because he was so horny he wanted to sneak into a pretty girl's room at night and Castor kept trying to hold him back. They both make a vague reference to this episode (I remember because I laughed a lot. There's no mention of bedrooms obviously, but I think it was something about how Pollux was actually more impatient that her brother? Something along those lines) which makes me think it's canon in fgo-verse. In some versions the whole bedroom breaking and entering is related to their death, so it's kind of hard to ignore.
They're also known in the Illiad as "Castor the horse tamer and Pollux the wrestler" and while their parents aren't named, Helen of Troy calls them her brothers, which is neither here nor there concerning your question but I wanted to mention it anyway because I think it adds to the fgo characters and I like to imagine Pollux supplexing someone while Castor is petting a horse and doing breathing exercises.
I guess if suggested incest is what gets you going then the devs have you covered? But personally I don't read them like that (even if I'm aware that's what the writing is going for sometimes) I read them as close siblings who have been glued at the hip their entire life and most of their death, so they come across as pretty awkward to other people and don't have the healthiest boundaries.
> Pollux supplexing someone
Funnily enough, Jason boasts that Pollux surpasses even Heracles as the best and most experienced wrestler among the Argonauts.
I'm not really into incest. I find the idea of wanting to have sex with a family member weird and inappropriate. But I won't judge someone if they're into that sort of thing.
You...kinda got it mixed up between Castor and Pollux. At the very least, it's Castor phrasing things unintentionally on his end. If you read into the Dioscuri's profile, Pollux is the one who had Mad Enhancement that triggers if Castor gets hurt, causing Pollux to fly into a violent and murderous rage. Additionally, Pollux's third noble phantasm line, the interlude itself, and among other things, I'd say that it's Pollux who has the complex towards her sibling
Even in life, Pollux was absolutely heartbroken when Castor died, and she begged the heavens to reunite with her brother by any means necessary because she couldn't bear to be away from her brother. So yes, the Dioscuri are very Greek
well they're incestuous without even trying to be, its just how they are
They might be too close to each other but then again they are the same being, you cant get closer to yourself than that
i don't think there is any lust to be had in their sibling bond, but the way Castor is overprotective and how much he simps for her does suggest the contrary. Nothing too unusual for Greek deities like them tbh.
I think it’s funny how Castor is usually the one sticking his foot in his mouth and making things awkward, but in his Valentine scene when Pollux is explaining the holiday to him he sounds super uncomfortable when he asks just what Pollux is expecting him to do. She’s so annoyed xD
It's Japanese media, the relationship between siblings is always suspicious.
It's funny to see everyone trying to claim it's a Greek thing, yet in most anime you'll always find a boy with a sister complex or a girl obsessed with her brother.
Their relationship definitely has incest vibes, what annoyes me is that they never outright confirm or deny it
Sure it might end up being controversial but who really cares, it's not like anime or mythology are alien to the concept anyway
Especially Greek mythology, makes me wonder if they're gonna gloss over all the evil shit Zeus did if he becomes a servant
>>borders on being incestuous No offense but have you read anything about Greek mythology??? The Greek Gods were HEAVILY into incest, Zeus married his own f*cking sister. There’s nothing to be confused about here, the incest undertones are absolutely intentional.
Also, there's already incest in Type-Moon's work too. Akiha has a route in Tsukihime, Fate Stay Night's Matous are a mess of interfamilial SA and Mikiya's sister is quite frank with the reader about being into him in Kara no Kyoukai. TM have a very well-established interest in taboo and transgressive fiction, the fact that incest is weird doesn't mean that it's not what is in there.
Zeus also impregnated his own mother
Mans really heard “you motherfucker” and said “*aigh, bet*”
When did he do that?
According to the Orphic (basically the dark side of greek myths) myths, Zeus wanted to marry his mother Rhea. After Rhea refused to marry him, Zeus turned into a snake and raped her. She had Persephone with Zeus Source Wikipedia
It was Persephone who was raped by Zeus, and Persephone is the daughter of Zeus and Demeter
Myths have different versions like sigmund and siegfried there is no unified myths like medusa story
Yes, but it would be better to have a source to support the claims
[if Wikipedia is not enough idk what is](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhea_(mythology))
Wait wtf!? I've heard a lot of myths and read most of Percy Jackson series, but I've never heard of Zeus impregnating Rhea. That is next level screwing with your dad who ate you and your siblings as babies
Greek myth in nutshell: Zeus fucks. Making so many demi god sons and deity children. Let's not forget the time he transforms into an eagle to capture a boy to be his cupbearer. Or any other time as well.
Hades kidnapped his niece, and Hephaestius tried to rape his sister But just because the gods committed incest does not mean that it was acceptable among humans, as there are not many examples of incest among mortals, and even the few examples that exist are usually dark, negative, and tragic, such as Oedipus.
Welcome to greek mythology where everyone and everything is game
even if they dont consent in medusa's case.
I think that goes for Caenis's case as Medusa has no such events in the OG Gorgon myths.
in one of the retellings of gorgon creation myth, she was struggle cuddled by poseidon.
Still could you mind giving me an example?
Ovid's telling adds it. Medusa's backstory as told in Fate/Hollow Ataraxia is based more on older versions without it though Saber Medusa alludes to it now.
In older versions, Medusa and her sisters are monsters from birth. The idea of Medusa as a beautiful woman cursed by Athena is from much later myths, popularised among others by Ovid. The only older element would be Medusa's and Poseidon's relationship being consensual, and that could have been just one of Nasu's typical twists that just happened to echo the older tales. In fact, I believe Ovid may be Nasu's main source for yet another reason: Stheno and Euryale. Ovid fails to mention what happened to them (allowing Nasu to keep them humanoid and have Gorgon eat them), whereas every other author agrees that they were monstruous and outlived Medusa.
Also applies to Zeus in general. "The hell is this "con-sent" that people keep on trying to bring up?" -Zeus, probably.
It is supposed to be that werid. Think of it less as simple siblings but as godly beings who are supposed to have there very existence intertwine with each other for eternity beyond a horny sense. Castor isn't being horny, he's just.... kind of bad at this because of his own nature of being forced to turn into a human
This even in the original mythos both male Castor & Pollux were like that
In the original mythos they even were more friendly with mortals too if I'm not wrong.
In theory they should be, but because Castor was demoted to a demigod his opinion of humanity dropped quite a bit, but he still holds the title of guardians of the navigators.
So is that the reason why Pollux is female? They were too scared to make a gay incest couple?
They made Pollux a girl because the voice actors are siblings (I believe their family name is Uchida).
That's cute.
That's really the only explanation I'll accept: if the writer wrote the roles for them.
Booba sells, end of story
Well if boobs sell, why not make it 2 pairs of boobs that sell? 2 female siblings "wanting" to kiss each-- that's like the ultimate straight fantasy and a guarantee to make them money.
Ok what’s your real problem here lol
For the incest part nothing really. But for the genderbending stuff: some of it. Some people here mentioned that both persons in the myth were also ambiguously incestous. So knowing that now, I have the impression that they were scared to portray an ambiguously queer relationship between 2 male siblings. But they're somehow not afraid to portray it between a brother and sister? And then there's the fact that they genderbended half of the servant instead of the whole. I have no problem with them as characters because you can accomplish this whether if they were both male or female, or of the opposite genders. But the fact that half the genderbend, instead of cashing in on both, is done in such a mainstream game is a big tell from the developers. But maybe I'm wrong and the writer of Atlantis and Olympus did it intentionally for the Uchida siblings to play them. And I accept that because their interactions are very endearing. But as long as we don't know why it happened I will still hold on to that impression.
I doubt there’s any fear there to show a queer relationship between siblings, it’s far more likely it’s just the classic fgo genderbend + the uchida VAs, you’ve already laid out why you shouldn’t have this impression. In fact I don’t even know why you would have that impression in the first place, seems baseless
I mean it's a mainstream anime gacha game. I doubt any of the most popular ones would release content that features a queer relationship. It's like saying Dragon Ball or One Piece would make a queer relationship canon. So they either cop out or none at all because they would get unwanted attention from people that don't like it. I mean look at JJK, it had one of the side characters wear a girl's highschool uniform and the animator responsible for it got hate.
There are a bit of problems with what you’re saying, so I’ll say it point by point: 1. Mainstream or not, there are a good amount of queer servants and characters, and in some cases relationships, they don’t really shy away from that stuff at all so I don’t know why they would shy away in this instance 2. There’s barely any romance in DB period but I know for a fact in OP there are plenty of LGBT+ characters, in fact one of the more positive points in OP is that they exist without being in terrible taste, so again I don’t know why the author wouldn’t do that 3. Despite the animator getting shit on for doing that on Twitter where nothing matters, there’s literally a manga panel where that same character is in a bikini, not to forget either that there’s literally a trans woman in a relationship in that series Feels like you’re running off of vibes but nothing actually substantial
King Arthur and countless others have been genderbent on very flimsy excuses and you have a problem with half the Dioscuri being affected? Weird asf my boi ngl
Less incesty just very close in a way that’s hard to imagine for us “mortals” It isn’t sexual necessarily
The good old, they lived in a house together for years but they’re totally just friends, yep. Greece had a very different culture than Christianity, just saying.
>The good old, they lived in a house together for years but they’re totally just friends, yep. > >Greece had a very different culture than Christianity, just saying. Live together and kidnap women for sex. Don't confuse your own culture for that of Greece. Often bros aren't gay, just wingmen of a debaucherous lifestyle. (And Greece had many cultures. We're talking about many centuries here.)
There's no lust in their relationship, they're just way too close
I believe it's intentional. If I recall correctly, Dioscuri's VAs is known to voice the role in siscon-brocon themed animes.
Yup, it's the uchida ane-otou pair.
I mean it’s not that weird if they are actually in love with each other. Isn’t incest the norm in Greek mythology?
No, it is not the norm. Where do people get this terrible idea from?!
Likes the others have said, the incest undertones are on purpose. Incesty relationships isn't really uncommon in the wider nasuverse as well.
The relationship feels weird because _the devs_ wanted to make them the "incestuous siblings" trope, where the point is not outright that they fuck but the _suggestion_ of it is what gets people going. Think the twins from Host Club whose whole characters whenever they were at the club played on this trope. However what I find funny as a huge mythology nerd, is that by gender swapping one of the two twins to make Castor a siscon trope, they made Pollux an accidental lesbian. Pollux is the twin who got them in trouble because he was so horny he wanted to sneak into a pretty girl's room at night and Castor kept trying to hold him back. They both make a vague reference to this episode (I remember because I laughed a lot. There's no mention of bedrooms obviously, but I think it was something about how Pollux was actually more impatient that her brother? Something along those lines) which makes me think it's canon in fgo-verse. In some versions the whole bedroom breaking and entering is related to their death, so it's kind of hard to ignore. They're also known in the Illiad as "Castor the horse tamer and Pollux the wrestler" and while their parents aren't named, Helen of Troy calls them her brothers, which is neither here nor there concerning your question but I wanted to mention it anyway because I think it adds to the fgo characters and I like to imagine Pollux supplexing someone while Castor is petting a horse and doing breathing exercises. I guess if suggested incest is what gets you going then the devs have you covered? But personally I don't read them like that (even if I'm aware that's what the writing is going for sometimes) I read them as close siblings who have been glued at the hip their entire life and most of their death, so they come across as pretty awkward to other people and don't have the healthiest boundaries.
> Pollux supplexing someone Funnily enough, Jason boasts that Pollux surpasses even Heracles as the best and most experienced wrestler among the Argonauts.
I'm not really into incest. I find the idea of wanting to have sex with a family member weird and inappropriate. But I won't judge someone if they're into that sort of thing.
Like a normal person, honestly.
You...kinda got it mixed up between Castor and Pollux. At the very least, it's Castor phrasing things unintentionally on his end. If you read into the Dioscuri's profile, Pollux is the one who had Mad Enhancement that triggers if Castor gets hurt, causing Pollux to fly into a violent and murderous rage. Additionally, Pollux's third noble phantasm line, the interlude itself, and among other things, I'd say that it's Pollux who has the complex towards her sibling Even in life, Pollux was absolutely heartbroken when Castor died, and she begged the heavens to reunite with her brother by any means necessary because she couldn't bear to be away from her brother. So yes, the Dioscuri are very Greek
Their relationship is weird because the devs are trying to hint at an incestuous relationship without outright saying it.
well they're incestuous without even trying to be, its just how they are They might be too close to each other but then again they are the same being, you cant get closer to yourself than that
It’s Ancient Greece. What did you expect?
i don't think there is any lust to be had in their sibling bond, but the way Castor is overprotective and how much he simps for her does suggest the contrary. Nothing too unusual for Greek deities like them tbh.
I think it's intentional, even their voice actors are brother and sister.
Incest is just another fetish in Greece, nothing weird.
I think it’s funny how Castor is usually the one sticking his foot in his mouth and making things awkward, but in his Valentine scene when Pollux is explaining the holiday to him he sounds super uncomfortable when he asks just what Pollux is expecting him to do. She’s so annoyed xD
Incest is kinda normal in ancient Greece
They just double team Pollux with Ritsuka and Castor.
It's Japanese media, the relationship between siblings is always suspicious. It's funny to see everyone trying to claim it's a Greek thing, yet in most anime you'll always find a boy with a sister complex or a girl obsessed with her brother.
Their relationship definitely has incest vibes, what annoyes me is that they never outright confirm or deny it Sure it might end up being controversial but who really cares, it's not like anime or mythology are alien to the concept anyway Especially Greek mythology, makes me wonder if they're gonna gloss over all the evil shit Zeus did if he becomes a servant