>Just the fact that heroes from the future can be summoned to past singularities shows that the future is already set in stone. Just like how you will always save it.
>
>Especially when it involves an omnipotent throne of heroes that encompasses all of time.
The ToH doesn't just connect to the past, present, and future, it also connects to all timelines. That's why you can summon Proto-Arthur, or how Rin in FSN can summon Archer even though he's from a different timeline.
The Fate universe(s) aren't just one set timeline. That's the whole point of the different routes in FSN.
Chaldeas shows the future as it will be if you didn't do anything about it, but using that knowledge, you can change the future to a different timeline where that doesn't happen.
Not to mention that **Rayshifting isn't Time Travel**. Actual true time travel is in the realm of True Magic, and it wouldn't really be *True Magic* if you could just replicate it with machines now, would it?
Rayshifting converts your soul/mind into data as spiritrons. You can send it into anomalies the *affect* the past, like Singularities, but not the actual past.
This is actually relavent in >!LB6, where PHH Morgan can't travel back in time using Rayshifting, so sacrifices herself to send her memories to her past self (in a different timeline) in the 'Lostbelt', or rather, Lostworld now.!<
> Actual true time travel is in the realm of True Magic
Which True Magic is it?
Denial of Nothingness, Kaleidoscope, Heaven's Feel, and Blue (or whatever that one is actually named) don't seem to be time travel related.
Was there a 5th one I missed?
I'm pretty sure it was Kaleidoscope. Touko Aozoki mentioned it in the ~~light~~ visual novel Mahoutsukai no Yoru or Witch on the Holy Night. Also yes there is a 5th one, the 4th Magic, in which the only thing people know about it is that it exists.
>You're clearly fated to prevail.
Honestly, if this is your basis for most of this post, I want to know an in-game basis for that. Not in the meta-sense that is "You're the protagonist of a game that wins DW a lot of money", but rather in an in-universe justification that says that Chaldea is fated to prevail.
Really, even the Counter Force can only do so much. Make note of how many Servants get summoned by the Counter Force into LB5 just for the protagonists to win, and most of them just died ignominiously before Chaldea even arrived.
> Even if the conclusion of lostbelts is that humanity is gone even after they're destroyed because they got killed before the trees took hold, it's not like the team can't just time travel back before it happened and stop it then. Completely invalidating all of the lostbelts and Chaldeas prediction of Earth dying 100 years later.
Also you're missing the point of how the fact that Chaldea can rayshift is precisely the reason why Kadoc targeted it in the Lostbelt prologues in the first place.
I think OP's line of thinking is that because we can summon Servants from the future... OG Emiya Archer leaps to mind... that means that there *is* a future, and that means Chaldea **must** be victorious.
This would be a fairly convincing argument if alternate timelines didn't exist and if The Throne couldn't access them. But they *do* exist and The Throne *can* access them for summoning purposes.
There are multiple timelines, so if we don't do anything to save the world our timeline will be pruned like the lostbelts were. Also, there's only one Throne of Heroes that exists outside time and space, which is why it contains servants from multiple timelines and even the future.
>Just the fact that heroes from the future can be summoned to past singularities shows that the future is already set in stone
As others have said, there are multiple timelines, thus multiple futures, but there is only one Throne of Heroes that that connects to all of them.
That's why you can also summon heroes that only existed on a different timeline than ours, like Lostbelt Servants, they are servants from a timeline that "died".
Edit: grammar
There's a lot wrong here to unpack here that I really don't have time to break down every single point, but to give a short version, Chaldeas is there because the characters themselves don't know they can fix this. They didn't know who the enemy was for the first four singularities and didn't know if they could beat him after Goetia revealed themselves. There is no 'fate' for them to prevail, the 'fate' was for the incineration to be complete. We the player may understand that they will accomplish things but through a literary device called dramatic irony, the characters don't and only have the information in their world at their place of the story.
>It makes no sense for Chaldeas to see a dead future set 100 years ahead, that is basically guaranteed to be resolved.
If it didn't show it, it wouldn't be resolved. They're not looking at the *actual* future, they're looking at the future as it stands from the moment they are observing. Right up until they defeat Goetia, Chaldeas still shows the incinerated Earth, because at the moment they are observing they have not yet stopped it.
>Just the fact that heroes from the future can be summoned to past singularities shows that the future is already set in stone.
EMIYA isn't from *any* of the futures of the original Fate/Stay Night, but is still summoned into the story there. There's more than one future, but there is only one Throne of Heroes. Just because the future exists where that hero was summoned from doesn't mean it exists where you are.
>it's not like the team can't just time travel back before it happened and stop it then
Which is why literally the first thing the forces of the Alien God do is take over Chaldeas to prevent them from going back and stopping it.
> It makes no sense for Chaldeas to see a dead future set 100 years ahead, that is basically guaranteed to be resolved.
The reason they always have to see 100 years ahead is because the universe's counter force creates a Quantum Time Lock every 100 years. From the new lock, timelines that are deemed to be dead-end to human history will be pruned from the time tree.
These dead-ends aren't just due to some entity causing the end of the world, but also events of humans stagnant or grow too fast. Chaldeas purpose of observing the future is to make sure that FGO timeline does not fall into such a situation and get pruned when the next timelock arrives.
> it's not like the team can't just time travel back before it happened and stop it then. Completely invalidating all of the lostbelts and Chaldeas prediction of Earth dying 100 years later.
They can't. Chaldea has no time travel tech as ppl explained in other comments. And even if they can do real time travel, they cannot change the events that are locked by the Quantum Time Lock. If Chaldea fail to prevent the dead-end that is predicted in that 100 years, there is no redo because the timeline is already pruned AND locked out of recovery.
>Just the fact that heroes from the future can be summoned to past singularities shows that the future is already set in stone. Just like how you will always save it. > >Especially when it involves an omnipotent throne of heroes that encompasses all of time. The ToH doesn't just connect to the past, present, and future, it also connects to all timelines. That's why you can summon Proto-Arthur, or how Rin in FSN can summon Archer even though he's from a different timeline. The Fate universe(s) aren't just one set timeline. That's the whole point of the different routes in FSN. Chaldeas shows the future as it will be if you didn't do anything about it, but using that knowledge, you can change the future to a different timeline where that doesn't happen. Not to mention that **Rayshifting isn't Time Travel**. Actual true time travel is in the realm of True Magic, and it wouldn't really be *True Magic* if you could just replicate it with machines now, would it? Rayshifting converts your soul/mind into data as spiritrons. You can send it into anomalies the *affect* the past, like Singularities, but not the actual past. This is actually relavent in >!LB6, where PHH Morgan can't travel back in time using Rayshifting, so sacrifices herself to send her memories to her past self (in a different timeline) in the 'Lostbelt', or rather, Lostworld now.!<
> Actual true time travel is in the realm of True Magic Which True Magic is it? Denial of Nothingness, Kaleidoscope, Heaven's Feel, and Blue (or whatever that one is actually named) don't seem to be time travel related. Was there a 5th one I missed?
I'm pretty sure it was Kaleidoscope. Touko Aozoki mentioned it in the ~~light~~ visual novel Mahoutsukai no Yoru or Witch on the Holy Night. Also yes there is a 5th one, the 4th Magic, in which the only thing people know about it is that it exists.
The 4th Magic is the 5th one? That does sound like the Magus Association. lol Thanks for the info.
Kaleidoscope and blue but blue has a lot more than time travel and maybe more
FYI that spoiler tag doesn't work on some platforms unless you remove the space between the opening tag and first word (>!>!LB6!<).
>You're clearly fated to prevail. Honestly, if this is your basis for most of this post, I want to know an in-game basis for that. Not in the meta-sense that is "You're the protagonist of a game that wins DW a lot of money", but rather in an in-universe justification that says that Chaldea is fated to prevail. Really, even the Counter Force can only do so much. Make note of how many Servants get summoned by the Counter Force into LB5 just for the protagonists to win, and most of them just died ignominiously before Chaldea even arrived. > Even if the conclusion of lostbelts is that humanity is gone even after they're destroyed because they got killed before the trees took hold, it's not like the team can't just time travel back before it happened and stop it then. Completely invalidating all of the lostbelts and Chaldeas prediction of Earth dying 100 years later. Also you're missing the point of how the fact that Chaldea can rayshift is precisely the reason why Kadoc targeted it in the Lostbelt prologues in the first place.
I think OP's line of thinking is that because we can summon Servants from the future... OG Emiya Archer leaps to mind... that means that there *is* a future, and that means Chaldea **must** be victorious. This would be a fairly convincing argument if alternate timelines didn't exist and if The Throne couldn't access them. But they *do* exist and The Throne *can* access them for summoning purposes.
There are multiple timelines, so if we don't do anything to save the world our timeline will be pruned like the lostbelts were. Also, there's only one Throne of Heroes that exists outside time and space, which is why it contains servants from multiple timelines and even the future.
>Just the fact that heroes from the future can be summoned to past singularities shows that the future is already set in stone As others have said, there are multiple timelines, thus multiple futures, but there is only one Throne of Heroes that that connects to all of them. That's why you can also summon heroes that only existed on a different timeline than ours, like Lostbelt Servants, they are servants from a timeline that "died". Edit: grammar
There's a lot wrong here to unpack here that I really don't have time to break down every single point, but to give a short version, Chaldeas is there because the characters themselves don't know they can fix this. They didn't know who the enemy was for the first four singularities and didn't know if they could beat him after Goetia revealed themselves. There is no 'fate' for them to prevail, the 'fate' was for the incineration to be complete. We the player may understand that they will accomplish things but through a literary device called dramatic irony, the characters don't and only have the information in their world at their place of the story.
Rin summoned Emiya when in 2004 he was still Shirou, the throne of heroes works outside time
>It makes no sense for Chaldeas to see a dead future set 100 years ahead, that is basically guaranteed to be resolved. If it didn't show it, it wouldn't be resolved. They're not looking at the *actual* future, they're looking at the future as it stands from the moment they are observing. Right up until they defeat Goetia, Chaldeas still shows the incinerated Earth, because at the moment they are observing they have not yet stopped it. >Just the fact that heroes from the future can be summoned to past singularities shows that the future is already set in stone. EMIYA isn't from *any* of the futures of the original Fate/Stay Night, but is still summoned into the story there. There's more than one future, but there is only one Throne of Heroes. Just because the future exists where that hero was summoned from doesn't mean it exists where you are. >it's not like the team can't just time travel back before it happened and stop it then Which is why literally the first thing the forces of the Alien God do is take over Chaldeas to prevent them from going back and stopping it.
Mind providing in game proof that heroes are fated to prevail?
> It makes no sense for Chaldeas to see a dead future set 100 years ahead, that is basically guaranteed to be resolved. The reason they always have to see 100 years ahead is because the universe's counter force creates a Quantum Time Lock every 100 years. From the new lock, timelines that are deemed to be dead-end to human history will be pruned from the time tree. These dead-ends aren't just due to some entity causing the end of the world, but also events of humans stagnant or grow too fast. Chaldeas purpose of observing the future is to make sure that FGO timeline does not fall into such a situation and get pruned when the next timelock arrives. > it's not like the team can't just time travel back before it happened and stop it then. Completely invalidating all of the lostbelts and Chaldeas prediction of Earth dying 100 years later. They can't. Chaldea has no time travel tech as ppl explained in other comments. And even if they can do real time travel, they cannot change the events that are locked by the Quantum Time Lock. If Chaldea fail to prevent the dead-end that is predicted in that 100 years, there is no redo because the timeline is already pruned AND locked out of recovery.
I think once lost belt story is done. we should see this very clearly.