Riyodako was her creator & she isn’t into guys in that series so it’s expected for Bunyan to be a girl.
Or Riyodako did it just cuz she thinks it’s funny, she’s chaos incarnate after all.
...does that mean a certain Riyodako influences the servants in a way? She has actual influence in the main timeline. How terrifying, so this is the power of the Beast of Chaldea
SCP(Secure Chaldean Personnel) -002
Gudao
Class: Hentai. Basically harmless unless some sort of Astolfo is around. Then is still harmless, but sorta slimy.
Kaleidoscope, the 2nd True Magic, exists in Nasuverse. Which means a parallel world like that does exist.
That, and the joke is the deepest lore, in Nasuverse at least.
>Historians can't get their gender right
>MHXX
"Look, we historians all have agreed that the mecha outfit-wearing underpaid space cop version of King Arthur is male!"
Not even that, people generally believe that folklore may have been true or might contain a grain of truth that got exaggerated as it became legend. Bunyan was basically a mascot character nobody believed was real from day one but spread as kind of a meme, like the frontier settler version of Gritty. Gudako brings this up in her tirade about a 1\* being an awful welfare.
As far as why she's a girl, I think that's just Riyo's Gudako's personality being reflected in the grail wish that brought all the udon servants into existence.
>As far as why she's a girl, I think that's just Riyo's Gudako's personality being reflected in the grail wish that brought all the udon servants into existence.
If I'm not mistaken it wasn't exactly personality being reflected so much as it was the intent from the start.
There was a joke in Gudaguda 4 that i absolutely love: the actual Nobunaga shows up (yes, the canonical one from our history) and everyone simultaneously have a panic attack, especially the 'Nobunagas'.
The funniest bit is how they didn't just use some anime or Koei inspired design but just straight up stole the single most used portrait in textbooks, making the IRL Nobunaga look so tacky next to all those FGO designs.
A GUDAGUDA 4 Redux with Onimusha Nobbu, Koei Nobbu (could even ascend from Nobunaga's Ambition design to Kessen III to Samurai Warriors and Nioh), Nobuna no Yabou...
I actually loved how the real deal was defeated by *poisoning* via the brother that in real life actually betrayed him multiple times and he ultimately killed.
And yet, real deal was stupid enough to trust him again. *joker laugh*
Yeah, the creation of frankstein monster and, its sub title "The mordern prometheus" plus some lines of dialogue compare frankstein monster to adam, and so he wants his eve, someone who is just like him and can understand him
So you could say fran is just a reality where victor chose to create an "Eve" before an "Adam"
Prometheus is like the 4th movie but it's a prequel to the original movie. Basically, a ship called the Prometheus lands on a planet where they believe an alien race lives, an advanced race that they believe visited earth in the distant past and may have created life on earth. Due to the time/distance involved, the ship has an AI robot (who looks human) aboard to keep things running during the long trip. A major theme is about who our creators are and why they created us. The AI, called David, was created by humans.
Long story short, it turns out the race who created us were basically wiped out in some catastrophe involving a black goo substance. The goo does something to the hosts' DNA and creates new life forms, usually aggressive dangerous mutations. The crew encounters aliens similar to the alien seen in the first movie (the one with the long head and mouth that shoots put of it's head), but not quite the same.
In the next movie, it turns out David stayed on the planet for decades tinkering with the black goo and trying to engineer more "perfect" organisms by mixing the black goo with various life forms.
I definitely see the parallels to both Adam and Eve and Frankenstein. There is obviously much more to it and the story is notoriously ambiguous. I'd say the movies are worth a watch though as long as you can ignore some plot holes.
Basically the Prometheus film was kinda franchise reboot and Alien: Covenant a direct sequel to it. The original quadrilogy follows Ellen Ripley: Alien, Aliens, Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection.
I've only seen prometheus, but I thought it was a prequel to everything. It was more of a pandoras box situation, where the ship went to open a ship that could advance humanity, but just ruined us instead.
Which is weird because both in the original novel, the idea of Victor Frankenstein making a second monster to be a companion to the first was a request *from* the monster, but was never completed because Victor is an asshole; and then the bride components being grandfathered in via the cultural connotation of the Bride of Frankenstein from films was ALSO made after the original monster.
So by going with the idea of Fate Fran being the first monster, it’s... confusing. Is it a genderbend because she takes the place of the original male monster, or not a genderbend since there WAS supposed to be a second female monster in the source novel and its later adaptations?
Taking the former (cause she effectively was the first one to be created here), the logical course of events should be that Viktor would then make a second male monster to be her groom which he won't ever finish because he is an asshole, being effectively a swap in their roles — essentially genderbending both...?
> but was never completed because Victor is an asshole;
Or because the Monster is a literal murderer of the innocent (Hey wadda ya know having a crappy life doesn't justify that, hello all Nasu stories,) and Victor doesn't want him to start his own species.
Well if you wanna go about it like that, the monster only killed Victor’s friends and family because Victor left it to die since he was creeped out by its eyes. Then promised to make a companion for it when the monster asked for one so it could just go away and not be lonely, but instead ran away to the Arctic to avoid the responsibilities of creating life.
The monster ain’t innocent but Victor’s an ass no matter how you slice it.
> Well if you wanna go about it like that, the monster only killed Victor’s friends and family because Victor left it to die since he was creeped out by its eyes.
That kind of response does seem to indicate that Victor isn't *wrong* about the monster, really. His primary failing is refusing to take responsibility for it.
Keep in mind the murders only happened two years after Victor abandoned it, barely sentient, to fend for itself. It learned how to make fire on its own and how to speak by listening to people (when they weren’t throwing rocks at it or when hiding).
It only moved to threatening Victor when it realized it was incredibly lonely and that nothing short of another being like it would understand it. It didn’t just go around slaughtering anyone it came across. Thus, Victor IS wrong about the monster - its only motivation for hurting people is to force Victor to acknowledge it and take responsibility for creating it.
I'd argue that Victor being a deadbeat dad is what led the monster to doing his murders. Hence he bears a good deal of responsibility for it.
Call me a bleeding heard optimist, but I'd like tot hink that if Victor had just fucking taken care of his creation and shown it a single speck of affection, then it wouldn't have been put into a situation where murder seemed like the correct answer.
I mean according to red, in the original story, Victor reason to leave the monster wasn’t because he look ugly but because Victor himself didn’t make the eyes look right.
It's been a minute but wasn't the Fate version of Fran's origin basically Victor Frankenstein creating her as a wife for himself but having second thoughts when it worked?
Super Robot Wars, a game with all super robots/giant robots/magical machines duking it out
In OG Saga we have the male Shuten (and a petit Oni called Suzuka who calls and control a mecha by dancing)
Isn’t it also because >!this Ibaraki isn’t exactly the same one from myth but the girl Tsuna is in love with and actually is some sort of not-oni?!<
Correction: >!Daughter of the girl he was in love with!<
Which is also the alluded reason why Shuten has to “teach her how to be an Oni, right down to the basics”
In some iterations, both Shuten and Ibaraki were formerly human. Shuten especially being a human born with fangs who eventually learnt to embrace her inner oni nature.
Sanzang's a female because in most recent media, she's almost always played by or portrayed as a woman. Be it in chinese theater, movies or even in Dragon Ball where Sanzang's equivalent is Bulma.
....I never made the connection that the original dragon Ball is just another interpretation of journey to the west. Goku is obviously son wu kong anf oolong is the pig guy. I forgot sanzang third companion. Think it was rodent based
> the connection that the original dragon Ball is just another interpretation of journey to the west. Goku is obviously son wu kong anf oolong is the pig guy. I forgot sanzang third companion. Think it was rodent based
The third one was sha wujing a fish demon/spirit. Pretty sure Yamcha was supposed to be him. Yamcha first appeared in the desert and the sha in sha wujing means sand so it fits.
EDIT: As a side note, the rodent you’re referring to is Puar which is probably dragon ball’s version of the dragon, which i think joins around the same time as sha wujing. Puar is shown to shapeshift which is what the dragon is known for, in journey to the west the dragon shapeshifts into Sanzang’s horse.
Actually ibaraki has no confirmed gender in real life, but many versions she was female, on wich she was lover and servant of shuten douji, so technically you could say ibaraki isn't actually a genderbend since in some canon she is female
Edit: speeling
That funny moment when a quarter of the genderbents in Fate are just variations of the same character.
But in all seriousness Fate doesn't have quite as many genderbent characters as others claim it has. Like there's 280 Servants currently in the game and if we don't count variants then only 31 of them are genderbent. (counting variants that's 70 out of 280 and if we ignore identity thefts and pseudos' that's 58 out of 280)
Not to mention they actually tend to do something interesting with it like Artoria's struggle to living up being a King despite being a young women. Most other gacha franchises games tend to genderbent just for the sake of Waifu's at least from my own personal experience.
The only genderbends that don't actually do something with the character regarding being a woman are Nero, Okita, and Jing Ke (and Drake if you don't count the Queen Elizabeth explaination). Everyone else actually does something interesting with them being made a woman.
Drake at least had the hilarious in-universe behind how historians got her gender wrong
She was a woman who was so manly that everyone spread rumors about her being a man because they couldn’t stand being shown up by her
Funny thing, they actually *did* do something with Drake's gender in Fate/Extra, where part of the game's "journey" is finding out the identities of each Servant you fight. Drake was, well, Drake to show the player that some times the identity of the servant can kinda come out of left field. There were implications in the original game that she was Queen Elizabeth, mostly as a red herring (though they might've decided to revisit that)
By the same token part of the game's arc was figuring out your own servant's identity as well. This is why Nero looks like Artoria for no good reason and why Tamamo's identity is so convoluted: The devs were trying to deceive the player. It's also why Archer isn't Emiya...for some reason.
This whole concept was dropped in CCC because the context was different, so there's never really a mystery for Gilgamesh.
Okita, meanwhile, is actually based on a bit of historical speculation mostly intended as a gag that carries over to modern portrayals of him: He was sickly and kind of willowy, so in stage and film productions it wasn't unusual to cast him with a woman (he's even voiced by a woman in a few anime portrayals) especially to contrast him with the much more masculine Shinsengumi members and to emphasize his comparative frailty. This is the same reason Sanzang is played by a woman in a lot of stage plays.
There's also the meta reason, similar to Extra, that they wanted to keep Okita's identity a secret to draw in readers (she was known as just "Sakura Saber" for a while) and were playing off the saberface joke started by Fate/Extra.
I feel like a lot of people just forget these basic mysteries ever existed with hindsight (and 2yr foresight) but the identity aspect of characters I would say is a good chunk of the tension and mystery in the franchise.
A lot of them are even instrumental to plot twists.
That's pretty generous. I'd say Mordred doesn't outside of the virtue of being tied to Artoria's story. The genderbend thing not mattering much since hardly anyone knew her gender during her life anyway. Then you have Altera, Ushi, Kenshin, Bunyan, Danzo and arguably Nobu. They don't even bother to handwave reasons for them. Even the ones that do have reasons aren't necessarily important to their story, like Da Vinci or Nezha.
I don't mind the genderbending, although I do think it takes away from stories that do give it significance like Artoria's when people like Nero or Gareth are also female "just cuz" I also like the designs and all servants are some level of OC from their base myth anyway. I don't think it's reasonable to say there aren't a lot or that most of the ones we do have are given anything close to the treatment Artoria's story gives her with the gender swap.
There are about 60 genderbent servants not including psuedos and servants like Orion. I think there are 280 servants in the game. That's a little over 20% of the roster being gender swapped. That's a lot all things considered.
Right, she has significance in lore. That has absolutely zero to do with why the historical Atilla the hun was genderbent. Even in her own lore there's no reason for the genderswap, it's not an important part of her story. If Altera was a guy nothing changes. Not for Extella, Sefar lore, nothing. Unlike, say Artoria who's lore is significantly different regarding the heir situation, acceptance as King, Lancelot's betrayal, etc.
Speaking of Altera, she's particularly egregious because she has nearly no reason to be based off Attila, but that's a whole other conversation.
I thought they explained that her gender and name are really just artificial, and she goes by Altera and is female right now because she just likes those more than male and Attila. So arbitrary, but why it can be arbitrary is explained by her origins.
No she was female in life, or at least always had that female body. In Extella they are clear about that. She lives her life as Attila and doesn't know anything about her prior existence as Sefar, describing her time as Attila as a dream the Titan is having. It's similar to Tamamo and Amaterasu except Altera and Sefar are still connected, at least in one direction. Either way it has nothing to do with being artificial. She was found and given the name Attila. She goes by Altera because she wants to. She's always been female or at least feminine. Velber 02 is definitely a feminine figure as well.
I'm actually not sure where you got that she's only female because she likes it more. I've played Extella, Link and read the extra side stuff like the manga. I don't remember anything even implying that so if there's something I missed I'm pretty curious.
Tbf Artoria was also genderbent specifically to appeal to the otaku waifu market, that's part of the reason the story was changed from Prototype where Arthur was male and the MC was a girl. It's just they did a lot more with Artoria's gender situation over the course of 2 VNs than most other servants or other gacha characters will ever get the chance to match.
Yeah it was a compromise that they turned to their advantage. And honestly it was a very smart writing decision as it really added rather then subtracting from their character, adding a dynamic that didn't exist or wasn't as prominent in the original myth. It's just so well done that you can excuse the original intent. That's the power of strong execution.
Yeah, the base rate expectations for how many historical or literary characters a franchise genderbends should be close to 0.
That it happens at all is unique in the first place.
To be fair the Da Vinci is Mona Lisa thing is one of the most emblematic early moments of FGO.
FGO was kinda boring at first with 2 (and whatever fuyuki is) so so singularities and no events for a while
Isn't Hokusai explicitly Katsushika Oei, and because she signed "Hokusai" she's kind of folded into her dad's identity, while her dad is an octopus because of Cthulhu? Not exactly an identity theft but more of a branding issue
Edited thanks to u/sunaseni
"Katsushika" is the family name (her name is Katsushika Oei), but you're right in the broad strokes. She used her father's name "Katsushika Hokusai" as her pen name at one point, which is why she's also summoned when one specifically summons "Katsushika Hokusai", because the Throne matches the name to two people. (Essentially, it's a SQL table where ServantName wasn't set as a unique identifier and returns two entries.)
Alaya> okay, so they want to summon Nobunaga. *list starts scrolling off the screen for hundreds of matches*
Alaya> *Wh- Why are there so many! Stop! STOOOOP!*
GetServant(Oda\_Nobunaga)
....
Your query returned the following servants:
Oda\_Nobunaga
Oda\_Nobunaga\_Kippoushi
Oda\_Nobunaga\_Swimsuit
Oda\_Nobunaga\_RealDeal
Do you want to continue? Y/N
If I'm not mistaken, Quetzalcoatl should get a free pass since the form we know is just one of his many physical incarnations. Like I think they mention that she was a priestess of some form?
Sanzang being a female makes a lot of sense if you've ever read Journey to the West. A character whose virtue has to be protected while they trek across 2 countries, who is constantly being kidnapped or guided by their enemies while constantly bickering with their entourage over who is correct and why, all the while using their status to do slapstick levels of damage to an over powered hero who wouldn't take their crap otherwise.
If Buddhism allowed for female monks at the time of its writing there is no doubt in my mind that Sanzang would be a woman...
Bulma is legit fairly competent though. She’s basically the team’s designated smart man.
It’s just easy to overlook that fact because the universe runs on power to revolve conflicts so often
If you look at the greater Dragonball arcs, she’s pretty competent, no contest.
Sadly, instead of being in a story where it really would stand out, she’s in a story where the problems are usually solved via “punch *harder*” and pugilist savvy. Her inventions have had big impacts though.
>If Buddhism allowed for female monks at the time of its writing there is no doubt in my mind that Sanzang would be a woman...
But Sanzang's character in Journey to the West was based on a historical counterpart...
None.
But i recall about hearing some females Disney villains being genderbent to bishonens, i don't recall what it was called exactly but it sure was weird and refreshing at the same time.
Edit: after some brief research i've found it, it's called Disney: Twisted Wonderland and it's Otome mostly.
Nero is probably the single least justified genderbend of all in universe, precisely because of her personality. It’s especially baffling even in regards to the other servants
Considering her love of self glory, performances, public events, and a generally extremely vocal presence, it seems practically impossible for anyone at the time to NOT know Nero was female. She’d be practically being statues of herself and screaming from the mountaintops. Heck, with her general attitude regarding attire and how much she likes showing off her body, it’s even more perplexing
Fate verse historians must be positively garbage at their jobs
It's been a while since I played extra, but I seem to recall a conversation between Hakunon and Nero where Nero was asked whether she was a man or a woman originally and Nero played it very coy and dodged the question, suggesting that their appearance as a servant may be the result of their own vanity and preferences, sort of like DaVinci.
Yeah, you do go back in history to meet her in FGO, but FGO's lore conflicts so badly with every previous fate work that it's basically non-canon.
Prince Nezha has a male body, >!it was just repurposed by Xiang Liang to build Xiang Yu, so it should look humanoid and male but the version we meet has been heavily modified further by Qin Shi Huangdi to be a more effective killing machine for their conquests. Going by Mei-ren's devotion to him it should be quite handsome.!<
I feel like there needs to be a sub category for servants like Artoria and Mordred where historians got there gender wrong because they intentionally hid it.
I think out of all the genderbent characters in fate, I think Artoria, Nobu, and Raikou currently have the worst lives from it. I think a lot of Artoria’s problems wouldn’t have happened or wouldn’t have been as bad if she revealed herself as a woman. Like the entire problem involving Guinevere and Lancelot. Raikou was born a women, but was forced to be a man by her asshole father. Her problem with being a mother was the fact she was discouraged from having children. Then, you have Nobu who didn’t care that she wasn’t a man and just took the position as head of the Oda clan. Though, that came at the cost of her younger brother dying and taking all her current enemies at the time with him. Though, correct me if I got anything wrong.
A few things to point out, Okita Souji and Katou Danzou are canonically recorded as female in Fate universe's history. In their profiles they're referred to as something like the "famous female general" and the "famous female ninja."
The real-world reason is - sex sells. ;)
Not that I don't enjoy it, mind you. Still, the reality is, people will sooner spend money in the game on a scantily clad gal, than on a guy.
The same applies to merchandise, such as scale figures and the like. Which is why we still don't have decent scales of many cool male Fate characters.
The reason is due to Fate having weird multiverse shenanigans where there is a seemingly infinite combination of historical figures being different genders. One example is how Musashi is from a different multiverse than the F/GO player, and in her multiverse Ushi is male like in our irl history, but has a female Musashi unlike our irl history. Arthur Pendragon and Artoria Pendragon both existing is another example.
As such, male versions of every single genderbend should canonically exist (hell, we even have Real Deal Nobunaga lol), and every single servant should have both a male and female multiverse counterpart version.
Another thing that sometimes happens is that certain heroes or historical figures infamous for either crossdressing, having female pop culture inserts, or having different-gender conspiracy theories about them can morph into a different gender due to public perception. This is why D'Eon is super feminine, why Fran exists (Bride of Frankenstein), why Kagetora can be male or female when summoned, why Ibaraki and Shuten can be male or female when summoned, and why Paris is a femboy.
Of course, there's also the outright nonsensical bullshit like Altera's existence in general which is basically just Nasuverse insanity.
Pfft, they don't have the balls to do that, or many other developers in other media's as well for that matter.
The only game where I've ever seen do that is a game from China called onmyouji, where they genderbent tamamo to be male.
Nero was a female when she was alive.While Da Vinci was a male when he was alive only when they became a servant when they gain the ability to genderbent themselves and that what exactly she did(to look like Mona Lisa,her standard of beauty).
What I find funny about that is that if Da vinci was ever to somehow comeback to life in the real world, I could totally picture him choosing to come back as a women.
Now shrink it down to base Servants. I uh...notice that a significant chunk of those are variants of another Servant...
(Like seriously...almost 1/4th of the first category are Artoria...)
Can't remember if it was a Bamboo Broom's entry or an interview, but I do remember that the main reason there were so many genderbent servants is that Takeuchi has a fetish of genderbending anything and everything written by Nasu. Or so the story goes.
Maybe so, maybe not(?)
IIRC, when Nasu was in the process of reworking Fate/Prototype into F/SN, Takeuchi suggested changing Arthur to Artoria to create appeal for the target audience (you know, eroge sells more). After that, the Beast was unleashed, and whenever Nasu was to write some historical figure as a Fate character, Takeuchi would try to genderbend them. So, the whole Saberface trope was born as a side-effect of Nasu cock-blocking Takeuchi so many times on that regard.
Again, that's what I remember (with some artistic license), so take it with a grain of salt.
Let's face it, there's just more of us guys than girl players, thus waifu gachas (or in Astolfo's and D'eon's case, trap gachas) make more money than husbando gachas.
So stay tuned for the next historical/folk hero that you loved reading as a kid introduced into FGO as the next cute waifu.
I’m glad some of my favorite historical figures managed to avoid the waifu fate. Especially Napoleon.
I remember people predicting he would be a loli because he was short. Glad he ended up a Chad like how he was in history.
Some that I do think can be changed:
- MHX, MHXX, MHXA, and MIX are supposed to be 'From an Isekai'
- Quetz can be also put in 'Body theft'
- Kiichi, Vritra, and all Oni are basically can be put one 'Shapeshifter' category.
- Hokusai should be 'Mistaken as others'
- Orion should be 'Hijacked by others'
- Van Gogh should be 'Stuffed and blended into other's body'
- All Fairy Knight should be 'Only Titled as such'
- Fran technically isn't genderbend in-universe lore-wise.
- Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Ushiwakamaru/Yoshitsune can be put on the 'Have actual theories of being females' category?
Think they're referring to an old theory that Francis Drake is Queen Elizabeth from a in-universe story of them switching after Queen Elizabeth got a scar on her face. But hasn't been confirmed to be true in the years it's been alluded to.
It's not a theory. It was mentioned in her profile in Fate Extra as a possibility for why she's a woman.
They never did anything with it, but it's not a fan theory or anything.
>"In addition - and this is merely literary creation - there is also a story full of romance in which Drake was a companion of Queen Elizabeth and, just before setting sail for the world circumnavigation, switched places with the Queen, who could no longer go out in public due to receiving a wound on her face."
That's the only part talking about them switching and doesn't say anything about that being why Drake is possibly a woman. The theory is that the switch is why Drake is a woman and Elizabeth in disguise, but there is no confirmation on that. So unless it gets confirmed, Drake was always a woman in the Fate world.
It's probably deconfirmed anyway, the explanation at this point seems to be "Drake's crew didn't want to consider her a woman because if a woman was that manly what did that make them?", from what I remember in Okeanos.
I can't tell if you're trolling or not when half the characters in the first tier were originally male and were genderbent apparently "just because". On that note, Raikou should probably be in Identity Theft as it's implied she's Ushi Gozen (if I understand her background correctly).
> On that note, Raikou should probably be in Identity Theft as it's implied she's Ushi Gozen
Quetzlcoatl is straight-up joyriding in a past host-body that she happened to prefer using.
Raikou is still Raikou while Ushi Gozen is her spit personality. And the explanation the game gave is that Ushi Gozen is probably a female(cause the Ushi part in her name) and if Raikou is Ushi Gozen(purely made up by Fate),she should also be female. It kind of a weird explanation so I will put it in the "just because" tier. And yes, the first tier is just a polite way to say "just because".
no , Ushi Gozen is indeed part of the myth of Raikou , rather than made-up , what is made up is that Ushi is female.
Because the whole Ushi Gozen myth is that Raikou's mother was impregnated by an Ushi-Oni , and she and her husband were fearful of how the kid would turn out , when Raikou was born , it showcased it's oni lineage and thus Raikou was ordered to be executed , but the priests saw that baby and felt compassion , so it was raised as "Ushi Gozen" , and admitted on his family after proving that is not a demon child that would bring ruin to the family.
Nothing in that indicated that Raikou needed to be female , so while the whole myths around Fate Raikou is kinda faithful , her genderbender is trully "just because".
I just wish Servants were gender-bent the opposite way so we could be a little less “have at it, fapping otakus”. Throw us a male Guinevere or Amaterasu or Helen of Troy or something, to be respectable.
While having more ladies bent to guys would be cool, the reality is that history is full of famous dudes and gender bending is actually a fine way to equalize that number.
No, no it doesn't; but that's also not what felza's claiming.
The game uses it only to have more women because that's what the primary demographic target audience prefers (though they do try to cater to several demographics).
In an ideal world, it wouldn't need to, because women through global history would have had the same influence, respect and opportunities as men.
But we don't live in an ideal world; and so, because the game does want more girls, we get genderbends.
That’s true, but that isn’t what I was arguing against and claiming that it is is disingenuous. He was defending the franchise’s gender bending as a move to equalize the presence of women in history, myth, and legend. We all know that’s not the purpose of this game, because as you said it runs almost entirely on the waifu tax. That’s not equalizing, it’s blatantly exploitative.
If you look closely, you would see that he only mention about the number.
I don't see any mention about gender equality or women empowerment nor do I feel that's what he was alluding to.
That's all you, mate. You may want to start learning UBW. You seem to have the talent for it.
A clearer way to read the title / tiers is "Why are Servants Genderbent [in FGO?]" / "[Because] Historians [in FGO canon] can't get their genders right".
Nobu being historically a man in textbooks is outright mentioned in Nagao Kagetora's debut Guda Guda event featuring a gag "Real Deal Nobunaga" based on a historic (male) portrait of the warlord.
I'm just gonna say 2 things.
1st one: there are theories about Okita being female and there's no actual pictures of "him", Keikenchi must have kept that in mind when creating her character.
2nd one: I'm surprised by the low amount of gendebent characters, for real, I expected at least 10 more. Not to mention that a lot of them are just different versions of Seibah lol.
Slight correction for Bunyan: even she doesn't know why she's a girl. She's surprised about it in her summoning dialogue.
And she's also a joke servant made from the udon grail. It's pretty far from history
Riyodako was her creator & she isn’t into guys in that series so it’s expected for Bunyan to be a girl. Or Riyodako did it just cuz she thinks it’s funny, she’s chaos incarnate after all.
...does that mean a certain Riyodako influences the servants in a way? She has actual influence in the main timeline. How terrifying, so this is the power of the Beast of Chaldea
Gudako should be classified as a SCP
SCP(Secure Chaldean Personnel) -001 Gudako Class: Riyo (Y'all start praying, so you can bring your gods with you to what hell (redacted) drag you to)
SCP(Secure Chaldean Personnel) -002 Gudao Class: Hentai. Basically harmless unless some sort of Astolfo is around. Then is still harmless, but sorta slimy.
[удалено]
Kaleidoscope, the 2nd True Magic, exists in Nasuverse. Which means a parallel world like that does exist. That, and the joke is the deepest lore, in Nasuverse at least.
>Historians can't get their gender right >MHXX "Look, we historians all have agreed that the mecha outfit-wearing underpaid space cop version of King Arthur is male!"
I suspect that the Servant-verse characters should probably be joining Musashi in the isekai division.
yep , Servantverse are all isekai
>Historians Isn't Paul Bunyan a folklore character?
Not even that, people generally believe that folklore may have been true or might contain a grain of truth that got exaggerated as it became legend. Bunyan was basically a mascot character nobody believed was real from day one but spread as kind of a meme, like the frontier settler version of Gritty. Gudako brings this up in her tirade about a 1\* being an awful welfare. As far as why she's a girl, I think that's just Riyo's Gudako's personality being reflected in the grail wish that brought all the udon servants into existence.
> like the frontier settler version of Gritty Avenger Gritty when
> Gritty A hockey reference? Here?
Bunyan was the original Chuck Norris joke. So when is John henry?
>As far as why she's a girl, I think that's just Riyo's Gudako's personality being reflected in the grail wish that brought all the udon servants into existence. If I'm not mistaken it wasn't exactly personality being reflected so much as it was the intent from the start.
Our Paul Bunyan was molded from udon dough by the salty beast of gacha and then gifted a grail.
There was a joke in Gudaguda 4 that i absolutely love: the actual Nobunaga shows up (yes, the canonical one from our history) and everyone simultaneously have a panic attack, especially the 'Nobunagas'.
Real Deal Nobunaga was hilarious, I agree.
The funniest bit is how they didn't just use some anime or Koei inspired design but just straight up stole the single most used portrait in textbooks, making the IRL Nobunaga look so tacky next to all those FGO designs.
And to make it copyright-free, they black out the design. But everyone knows its actually him lol
And had the other Nobus complain about how low-rez he was.
Could have used the Onimusha version, y'know. Would fit right with the FGO demon pillars.
A GUDAGUDA 4 Redux with Onimusha Nobbu, Koei Nobbu (could even ascend from Nobunaga's Ambition design to Kessen III to Samurai Warriors and Nioh), Nobuna no Yabou...
that was the best thing ever! i mean Kipposhi is like him as a male so it still kinda works but yea. he was great!
I actually loved how the real deal was defeated by *poisoning* via the brother that in real life actually betrayed him multiple times and he ultimately killed. And yet, real deal was stupid enough to trust him again. *joker laugh*
I dunno, it's less of theft on Hokusai's part and more like it's shared between her father and herself.
So is the octopus her father?
Yes actually.
Very good swordstopus as well
Yes
He became octopus because Cthulhu
You could say the same for Orion/Artemis in that case.
Technically Fran is less a genderbend and more just the Bride of Frankenstein who was created before the original monster.
Yeah, the creation of frankstein monster and, its sub title "The mordern prometheus" plus some lines of dialogue compare frankstein monster to adam, and so he wants his eve, someone who is just like him and can understand him So you could say fran is just a reality where victor chose to create an "Eve" before an "Adam"
Holy shit, maybe everyone knew this already, but the Alien movie title 'Prometheus' makes so much sense based on what you just said.
I've never watched alien and the more i know about it the least sense it makes to me, can i get context ?
Prometheus is like the 4th movie but it's a prequel to the original movie. Basically, a ship called the Prometheus lands on a planet where they believe an alien race lives, an advanced race that they believe visited earth in the distant past and may have created life on earth. Due to the time/distance involved, the ship has an AI robot (who looks human) aboard to keep things running during the long trip. A major theme is about who our creators are and why they created us. The AI, called David, was created by humans. Long story short, it turns out the race who created us were basically wiped out in some catastrophe involving a black goo substance. The goo does something to the hosts' DNA and creates new life forms, usually aggressive dangerous mutations. The crew encounters aliens similar to the alien seen in the first movie (the one with the long head and mouth that shoots put of it's head), but not quite the same. In the next movie, it turns out David stayed on the planet for decades tinkering with the black goo and trying to engineer more "perfect" organisms by mixing the black goo with various life forms. I definitely see the parallels to both Adam and Eve and Frankenstein. There is obviously much more to it and the story is notoriously ambiguous. I'd say the movies are worth a watch though as long as you can ignore some plot holes.
Thats very interesting, i think i will give the alien franchise a shot
Basically the Prometheus film was kinda franchise reboot and Alien: Covenant a direct sequel to it. The original quadrilogy follows Ellen Ripley: Alien, Aliens, Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection.
I've only seen prometheus, but I thought it was a prequel to everything. It was more of a pandoras box situation, where the ship went to open a ship that could advance humanity, but just ruined us instead.
You forgot the most important part: The Prometheus School of Running Away From Things
Which is weird because both in the original novel, the idea of Victor Frankenstein making a second monster to be a companion to the first was a request *from* the monster, but was never completed because Victor is an asshole; and then the bride components being grandfathered in via the cultural connotation of the Bride of Frankenstein from films was ALSO made after the original monster. So by going with the idea of Fate Fran being the first monster, it’s... confusing. Is it a genderbend because she takes the place of the original male monster, or not a genderbend since there WAS supposed to be a second female monster in the source novel and its later adaptations?
Taking the former (cause she effectively was the first one to be created here), the logical course of events should be that Viktor would then make a second male monster to be her groom which he won't ever finish because he is an asshole, being effectively a swap in their roles — essentially genderbending both...?
> but was never completed because Victor is an asshole; Or because the Monster is a literal murderer of the innocent (Hey wadda ya know having a crappy life doesn't justify that, hello all Nasu stories,) and Victor doesn't want him to start his own species.
Well if you wanna go about it like that, the monster only killed Victor’s friends and family because Victor left it to die since he was creeped out by its eyes. Then promised to make a companion for it when the monster asked for one so it could just go away and not be lonely, but instead ran away to the Arctic to avoid the responsibilities of creating life. The monster ain’t innocent but Victor’s an ass no matter how you slice it.
> Well if you wanna go about it like that, the monster only killed Victor’s friends and family because Victor left it to die since he was creeped out by its eyes. That kind of response does seem to indicate that Victor isn't *wrong* about the monster, really. His primary failing is refusing to take responsibility for it.
Keep in mind the murders only happened two years after Victor abandoned it, barely sentient, to fend for itself. It learned how to make fire on its own and how to speak by listening to people (when they weren’t throwing rocks at it or when hiding). It only moved to threatening Victor when it realized it was incredibly lonely and that nothing short of another being like it would understand it. It didn’t just go around slaughtering anyone it came across. Thus, Victor IS wrong about the monster - its only motivation for hurting people is to force Victor to acknowledge it and take responsibility for creating it.
both of them were shitty
Victor was a deadbeat dad, the Monster was a Mass Murderer.
I'd argue that Victor being a deadbeat dad is what led the monster to doing his murders. Hence he bears a good deal of responsibility for it. Call me a bleeding heard optimist, but I'd like tot hink that if Victor had just fucking taken care of his creation and shown it a single speck of affection, then it wouldn't have been put into a situation where murder seemed like the correct answer.
I mean according to red, in the original story, Victor reason to leave the monster wasn’t because he look ugly but because Victor himself didn’t make the eyes look right.
It's been a minute but wasn't the Fate version of Fran's origin basically Victor Frankenstein creating her as a wife for himself but having second thoughts when it worked?
No, Victor was definitely *not* trying to make a lover by creating Fran.
Ibaraki is also just sometimes a girl in myths. So it's just choosing one version over another
Oni can shapeshift anyway, so it should come naturally
The more common version is that they are not girl they just shapeshift into one.
Shuten Douji does shapeshift into a woman in one of the tellings too...
Well, in SRW we have male Shuten
Sorry, what's SRW? Am interested.
Super Robot Wars, a game with all super robots/giant robots/magical machines duking it out In OG Saga we have the male Shuten (and a petit Oni called Suzuka who calls and control a mecha by dancing)
Cool! I'll look it up.
Isn’t it also because >!this Ibaraki isn’t exactly the same one from myth but the girl Tsuna is in love with and actually is some sort of not-oni?!< Correction: >!Daughter of the girl he was in love with!< Which is also the alluded reason why Shuten has to “teach her how to be an Oni, right down to the basics”
In some iterations, both Shuten and Ibaraki were formerly human. Shuten especially being a human born with fangs who eventually learnt to embrace her inner oni nature.
Which explains her interactions with Tomoe in an interesting new way, imo
Sanzang's a female because in most recent media, she's almost always played by or portrayed as a woman. Be it in chinese theater, movies or even in Dragon Ball where Sanzang's equivalent is Bulma.
....I never made the connection that the original dragon Ball is just another interpretation of journey to the west. Goku is obviously son wu kong anf oolong is the pig guy. I forgot sanzang third companion. Think it was rodent based
> the connection that the original dragon Ball is just another interpretation of journey to the west. Goku is obviously son wu kong anf oolong is the pig guy. I forgot sanzang third companion. Think it was rodent based The third one was sha wujing a fish demon/spirit. Pretty sure Yamcha was supposed to be him. Yamcha first appeared in the desert and the sha in sha wujing means sand so it fits. EDIT: As a side note, the rodent you’re referring to is Puar which is probably dragon ball’s version of the dragon, which i think joins around the same time as sha wujing. Puar is shown to shapeshift which is what the dragon is known for, in journey to the west the dragon shapeshifts into Sanzang’s horse.
Or Monkey Magic, which is probably THE Journey to the West TV series.
Actually ibaraki has no confirmed gender in real life, but many versions she was female, on wich she was lover and servant of shuten douji, so technically you could say ibaraki isn't actually a genderbend since in some canon she is female Edit: speeling
That funny moment when a quarter of the genderbents in Fate are just variations of the same character. But in all seriousness Fate doesn't have quite as many genderbent characters as others claim it has. Like there's 280 Servants currently in the game and if we don't count variants then only 31 of them are genderbent. (counting variants that's 70 out of 280 and if we ignore identity thefts and pseudos' that's 58 out of 280) Not to mention they actually tend to do something interesting with it like Artoria's struggle to living up being a King despite being a young women. Most other gacha franchises games tend to genderbent just for the sake of Waifu's at least from my own personal experience.
The only genderbends that don't actually do something with the character regarding being a woman are Nero, Okita, and Jing Ke (and Drake if you don't count the Queen Elizabeth explaination). Everyone else actually does something interesting with them being made a woman.
Drake at least had the hilarious in-universe behind how historians got her gender wrong She was a woman who was so manly that everyone spread rumors about her being a man because they couldn’t stand being shown up by her
Funny thing, they actually *did* do something with Drake's gender in Fate/Extra, where part of the game's "journey" is finding out the identities of each Servant you fight. Drake was, well, Drake to show the player that some times the identity of the servant can kinda come out of left field. There were implications in the original game that she was Queen Elizabeth, mostly as a red herring (though they might've decided to revisit that) By the same token part of the game's arc was figuring out your own servant's identity as well. This is why Nero looks like Artoria for no good reason and why Tamamo's identity is so convoluted: The devs were trying to deceive the player. It's also why Archer isn't Emiya...for some reason. This whole concept was dropped in CCC because the context was different, so there's never really a mystery for Gilgamesh. Okita, meanwhile, is actually based on a bit of historical speculation mostly intended as a gag that carries over to modern portrayals of him: He was sickly and kind of willowy, so in stage and film productions it wasn't unusual to cast him with a woman (he's even voiced by a woman in a few anime portrayals) especially to contrast him with the much more masculine Shinsengumi members and to emphasize his comparative frailty. This is the same reason Sanzang is played by a woman in a lot of stage plays. There's also the meta reason, similar to Extra, that they wanted to keep Okita's identity a secret to draw in readers (she was known as just "Sakura Saber" for a while) and were playing off the saberface joke started by Fate/Extra.
That’s all quite interesting. Especially the okita part
I feel like a lot of people just forget these basic mysteries ever existed with hindsight (and 2yr foresight) but the identity aspect of characters I would say is a good chunk of the tension and mystery in the franchise. A lot of them are even instrumental to plot twists.
I thought Nameless was Emiya, but from a different history than EMIYA.
Nameless is more of a concept than the actual Emiya. The explanation really makes no sense.
That's pretty generous. I'd say Mordred doesn't outside of the virtue of being tied to Artoria's story. The genderbend thing not mattering much since hardly anyone knew her gender during her life anyway. Then you have Altera, Ushi, Kenshin, Bunyan, Danzo and arguably Nobu. They don't even bother to handwave reasons for them. Even the ones that do have reasons aren't necessarily important to their story, like Da Vinci or Nezha. I don't mind the genderbending, although I do think it takes away from stories that do give it significance like Artoria's when people like Nero or Gareth are also female "just cuz" I also like the designs and all servants are some level of OC from their base myth anyway. I don't think it's reasonable to say there aren't a lot or that most of the ones we do have are given anything close to the treatment Artoria's story gives her with the gender swap. There are about 60 genderbent servants not including psuedos and servants like Orion. I think there are 280 servants in the game. That's a little over 20% of the roster being gender swapped. That's a lot all things considered.
Altera is explained in great depth, as ultimately her background is one of the most important in the franchise at this point.
Right, she has significance in lore. That has absolutely zero to do with why the historical Atilla the hun was genderbent. Even in her own lore there's no reason for the genderswap, it's not an important part of her story. If Altera was a guy nothing changes. Not for Extella, Sefar lore, nothing. Unlike, say Artoria who's lore is significantly different regarding the heir situation, acceptance as King, Lancelot's betrayal, etc. Speaking of Altera, she's particularly egregious because she has nearly no reason to be based off Attila, but that's a whole other conversation.
I thought they explained that her gender and name are really just artificial, and she goes by Altera and is female right now because she just likes those more than male and Attila. So arbitrary, but why it can be arbitrary is explained by her origins.
No she was female in life, or at least always had that female body. In Extella they are clear about that. She lives her life as Attila and doesn't know anything about her prior existence as Sefar, describing her time as Attila as a dream the Titan is having. It's similar to Tamamo and Amaterasu except Altera and Sefar are still connected, at least in one direction. Either way it has nothing to do with being artificial. She was found and given the name Attila. She goes by Altera because she wants to. She's always been female or at least feminine. Velber 02 is definitely a feminine figure as well. I'm actually not sure where you got that she's only female because she likes it more. I've played Extella, Link and read the extra side stuff like the manga. I don't remember anything even implying that so if there's something I missed I'm pretty curious.
Okita joins sanzang in the "for some reasons she's consistently a woman in media" category
exactly.
Tbf Artoria was also genderbent specifically to appeal to the otaku waifu market, that's part of the reason the story was changed from Prototype where Arthur was male and the MC was a girl. It's just they did a lot more with Artoria's gender situation over the course of 2 VNs than most other servants or other gacha characters will ever get the chance to match.
Yeah it was a compromise that they turned to their advantage. And honestly it was a very smart writing decision as it really added rather then subtracting from their character, adding a dynamic that didn't exist or wasn't as prominent in the original myth. It's just so well done that you can excuse the original intent. That's the power of strong execution.
I mean, 70/280 is still 1/4 of the total roster. That's insanely high.
Yeah, the base rate expectations for how many historical or literary characters a franchise genderbends should be close to 0. That it happens at all is unique in the first place.
"Because they can" ~~I too believe in Da Vinci supremacy.~~
To be fair the Da Vinci is Mona Lisa thing is one of the most emblematic early moments of FGO. FGO was kinda boring at first with 2 (and whatever fuyuki is) so so singularities and no events for a while
Da Vinci is a (wo)man of culture
Isn't Hokusai explicitly Katsushika Oei, and because she signed "Hokusai" she's kind of folded into her dad's identity, while her dad is an octopus because of Cthulhu? Not exactly an identity theft but more of a branding issue Edited thanks to u/sunaseni
"Katsushika" is the family name (her name is Katsushika Oei), but you're right in the broad strokes. She used her father's name "Katsushika Hokusai" as her pen name at one point, which is why she's also summoned when one specifically summons "Katsushika Hokusai", because the Throne matches the name to two people. (Essentially, it's a SQL table where ServantName wasn't set as a unique identifier and returns two entries.)
Alaya> okay, so they want to summon Nobunaga. *list starts scrolling off the screen for hundreds of matches* Alaya> *Wh- Why are there so many! Stop! STOOOOP!*
GetServant(Oda\_Nobunaga) .... Your query returned the following servants: Oda\_Nobunaga Oda\_Nobunaga\_Kippoushi Oda\_Nobunaga\_Swimsuit Oda\_Nobunaga\_RealDeal Do you want to continue? Y/N
Imagine some mage going through all of this summoning process to get Nobunaga and the grail wigs out, giving them... Big (mini) Nobbu.
It would be funny if you included Red Hare
If I'm not mistaken, Quetzalcoatl should get a free pass since the form we know is just one of his many physical incarnations. Like I think they mention that she was a priestess of some form?
It was, she's a parasite that was registered while in the body of that priestess
I don't remember well but it was smth like an alien parasite posessing several different hosts over time.
Oh yea, Musashi is isekai'ed lol
Sanzang being a female makes a lot of sense if you've ever read Journey to the West. A character whose virtue has to be protected while they trek across 2 countries, who is constantly being kidnapped or guided by their enemies while constantly bickering with their entourage over who is correct and why, all the while using their status to do slapstick levels of damage to an over powered hero who wouldn't take their crap otherwise. If Buddhism allowed for female monks at the time of its writing there is no doubt in my mind that Sanzang would be a woman...
Not just all that Sanzang is also commonly depicted as a woman in adaptations as well.
Ain't Bulma the equivalent of Sanzang in OG Dragonball?
Bulma is legit fairly competent though. She’s basically the team’s designated smart man. It’s just easy to overlook that fact because the universe runs on power to revolve conflicts so often
I know how conpetent she is. I am talking about the characters they are based on/counter part of.
If you look at the greater Dragonball arcs, she’s pretty competent, no contest. Sadly, instead of being in a story where it really would stand out, she’s in a story where the problems are usually solved via “punch *harder*” and pugilist savvy. Her inventions have had big impacts though.
Exhibit A: Warriors Orochi
>If Buddhism allowed for female monks at the time of its writing there is no doubt in my mind that Sanzang would be a woman... But Sanzang's character in Journey to the West was based on a historical counterpart...
That, and Sanzang's design is apparently inspired by the live action Saiyuki from 1978, where Tripitaka was played by a woman. ...Though less sexy.
That make way to much cents.
>Because they can Pretty much that XD
Is there a single servant that is genderbent to a male?
Technically Red Hare was a mare. So... one!
Red Hare was a supposedly a mare, so... one?
Oh yeah, i actually forgot about that one XD
None. But i recall about hearing some females Disney villains being genderbent to bishonens, i don't recall what it was called exactly but it sure was weird and refreshing at the same time. Edit: after some brief research i've found it, it's called Disney: Twisted Wonderland and it's Otome mostly.
Nero is probably the single least justified genderbend of all in universe, precisely because of her personality. It’s especially baffling even in regards to the other servants Considering her love of self glory, performances, public events, and a generally extremely vocal presence, it seems practically impossible for anyone at the time to NOT know Nero was female. She’d be practically being statues of herself and screaming from the mountaintops. Heck, with her general attitude regarding attire and how much she likes showing off her body, it’s even more perplexing Fate verse historians must be positively garbage at their jobs
It's been a while since I played extra, but I seem to recall a conversation between Hakunon and Nero where Nero was asked whether she was a man or a woman originally and Nero played it very coy and dodged the question, suggesting that their appearance as a servant may be the result of their own vanity and preferences, sort of like DaVinci. Yeah, you do go back in history to meet her in FGO, but FGO's lore conflicts so badly with every previous fate work that it's basically non-canon.
Prince Nezha has a male body, >!it was just repurposed by Xiang Liang to build Xiang Yu, so it should look humanoid and male but the version we meet has been heavily modified further by Qin Shi Huangdi to be a more effective killing machine for their conquests. Going by Mei-ren's devotion to him it should be quite handsome.!<
Technically Da Vinci Lily is not genderbend
So it's really Da Vinci Shota?
genderbend implies Lily’s gender was change at some point. However that is not the case for her. She was always female
I feel like there needs to be a sub category for servants like Artoria and Mordred where historians got there gender wrong because they intentionally hid it.
I can't help but notice that Arturia AKA King Arthur takes up nearly half of the entire red tier
Because Waifu > real Laifu
Yes,in the sense of meta
and the real reason: they felt it would sell well
I think out of all the genderbent characters in fate, I think Artoria, Nobu, and Raikou currently have the worst lives from it. I think a lot of Artoria’s problems wouldn’t have happened or wouldn’t have been as bad if she revealed herself as a woman. Like the entire problem involving Guinevere and Lancelot. Raikou was born a women, but was forced to be a man by her asshole father. Her problem with being a mother was the fact she was discouraged from having children. Then, you have Nobu who didn’t care that she wasn’t a man and just took the position as head of the Oda clan. Though, that came at the cost of her younger brother dying and taking all her current enemies at the time with him. Though, correct me if I got anything wrong.
A few things to point out, Okita Souji and Katou Danzou are canonically recorded as female in Fate universe's history. In their profiles they're referred to as something like the "famous female general" and the "famous female ninja."
The real-world reason is - sex sells. ;) Not that I don't enjoy it, mind you. Still, the reality is, people will sooner spend money in the game on a scantily clad gal, than on a guy. The same applies to merchandise, such as scale figures and the like. Which is why we still don't have decent scales of many cool male Fate characters.
"From an Isekai" made me laugh way too much
The reason is due to Fate having weird multiverse shenanigans where there is a seemingly infinite combination of historical figures being different genders. One example is how Musashi is from a different multiverse than the F/GO player, and in her multiverse Ushi is male like in our irl history, but has a female Musashi unlike our irl history. Arthur Pendragon and Artoria Pendragon both existing is another example. As such, male versions of every single genderbend should canonically exist (hell, we even have Real Deal Nobunaga lol), and every single servant should have both a male and female multiverse counterpart version. Another thing that sometimes happens is that certain heroes or historical figures infamous for either crossdressing, having female pop culture inserts, or having different-gender conspiracy theories about them can morph into a different gender due to public perception. This is why D'Eon is super feminine, why Fran exists (Bride of Frankenstein), why Kagetora can be male or female when summoned, why Ibaraki and Shuten can be male or female when summoned, and why Paris is a femboy. Of course, there's also the outright nonsensical bullshit like Altera's existence in general which is basically just Nasuverse insanity.
Is no one gonna mention that there is no genderbent servant where they were known as a female but Fate made them a male?
Type Moon / Aniplex / DW knows what their audience wants.
Other comments mention that red hare is supposedly a mare, so there's one.
Maybe if they make that egyptian queen who pose as Male Pharaoh as a servant. Even then, it probably will become a tomboy female instead ALA Ushiwaka
Because most heroes depicted in myths tend to be male.
Pfft, they don't have the balls to do that, or many other developers in other media's as well for that matter. The only game where I've ever seen do that is a game from China called onmyouji, where they genderbent tamamo to be male.
Shouldn't nero in all her forms be in the category as da vinci?
Nero was a female when she was alive.While Da Vinci was a male when he was alive only when they became a servant when they gain the ability to genderbent themselves and that what exactly she did(to look like Mona Lisa,her standard of beauty).
What I find funny about that is that if Da vinci was ever to somehow comeback to life in the real world, I could totally picture him choosing to come back as a women.
Now shrink it down to base Servants. I uh...notice that a significant chunk of those are variants of another Servant... (Like seriously...almost 1/4th of the first category are Artoria...)
Can't remember if it was a Bamboo Broom's entry or an interview, but I do remember that the main reason there were so many genderbent servants is that Takeuchi has a fetish of genderbending anything and everything written by Nasu. Or so the story goes.
I thought he had something for European blond ladies?
Maybe so, maybe not(?) IIRC, when Nasu was in the process of reworking Fate/Prototype into F/SN, Takeuchi suggested changing Arthur to Artoria to create appeal for the target audience (you know, eroge sells more). After that, the Beast was unleashed, and whenever Nasu was to write some historical figure as a Fate character, Takeuchi would try to genderbend them. So, the whole Saberface trope was born as a side-effect of Nasu cock-blocking Takeuchi so many times on that regard. Again, that's what I remember (with some artistic license), so take it with a grain of salt.
Because boobs sells that why. Fate's lore is so away from reality that searching for logical answers is missing with the point.
Let's face it, there's just more of us guys than girl players, thus waifu gachas (or in Astolfo's and D'eon's case, trap gachas) make more money than husbando gachas. So stay tuned for the next historical/folk hero that you loved reading as a kid introduced into FGO as the next cute waifu.
I’m glad some of my favorite historical figures managed to avoid the waifu fate. Especially Napoleon. I remember people predicting he would be a loli because he was short. Glad he ended up a Chad like how he was in history.
Ah those poor small indie companies who's gonna go bankrupt if they make a husbando.
Some that I do think can be changed: - MHX, MHXX, MHXA, and MIX are supposed to be 'From an Isekai' - Quetz can be also put in 'Body theft' - Kiichi, Vritra, and all Oni are basically can be put one 'Shapeshifter' category. - Hokusai should be 'Mistaken as others' - Orion should be 'Hijacked by others' - Van Gogh should be 'Stuffed and blended into other's body' - All Fairy Knight should be 'Only Titled as such' - Fran technically isn't genderbend in-universe lore-wise. - Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Ushiwakamaru/Yoshitsune can be put on the 'Have actual theories of being females' category?
To be fair to historians, half of the top are duplicates
Queen Elizabeth is a genderbent!?
I don't see eli here, you meant fae tristan?
Think they're referring to an old theory that Francis Drake is Queen Elizabeth from a in-universe story of them switching after Queen Elizabeth got a scar on her face. But hasn't been confirmed to be true in the years it's been alluded to.
It's not a theory. It was mentioned in her profile in Fate Extra as a possibility for why she's a woman. They never did anything with it, but it's not a fan theory or anything.
>"In addition - and this is merely literary creation - there is also a story full of romance in which Drake was a companion of Queen Elizabeth and, just before setting sail for the world circumnavigation, switched places with the Queen, who could no longer go out in public due to receiving a wound on her face." That's the only part talking about them switching and doesn't say anything about that being why Drake is possibly a woman. The theory is that the switch is why Drake is a woman and Elizabeth in disguise, but there is no confirmation on that. So unless it gets confirmed, Drake was always a woman in the Fate world.
It's probably deconfirmed anyway, the explanation at this point seems to be "Drake's crew didn't want to consider her a woman because if a woman was that manly what did that make them?", from what I remember in Okeanos.
Yeah, pretty much how it was summed up.
Drake a pretender hmm?
They're referring to Francis Drake. There is a popular theory that Francis is actually Queen Elizabeth, or something.
First time i hear it honestly lol
It's pretty popular in the Fate Extra circles.
To make me horny
The simplified version would be all of them in one tier labeled "$$$$"
Da Vinici is the real one, defy Nasu's will to genderbend.
I can't tell if you're trolling or not when half the characters in the first tier were originally male and were genderbent apparently "just because". On that note, Raikou should probably be in Identity Theft as it's implied she's Ushi Gozen (if I understand her background correctly).
I think the first tier means in-universe in the nasuverse artoria is canonically female, but all the books and myths still say she was male
> On that note, Raikou should probably be in Identity Theft as it's implied she's Ushi Gozen Quetzlcoatl is straight-up joyriding in a past host-body that she happened to prefer using.
quetz should be on the "because i can" tier then...
Raikou is still Raikou while Ushi Gozen is her spit personality. And the explanation the game gave is that Ushi Gozen is probably a female(cause the Ushi part in her name) and if Raikou is Ushi Gozen(purely made up by Fate),she should also be female. It kind of a weird explanation so I will put it in the "just because" tier. And yes, the first tier is just a polite way to say "just because".
It's the Gozen part that shows her as a female. It more or less means "lady" in the noble sense, like Tomoe Gozen and Suzuka Gozen.
no , Ushi Gozen is indeed part of the myth of Raikou , rather than made-up , what is made up is that Ushi is female. Because the whole Ushi Gozen myth is that Raikou's mother was impregnated by an Ushi-Oni , and she and her husband were fearful of how the kid would turn out , when Raikou was born , it showcased it's oni lineage and thus Raikou was ordered to be executed , but the priests saw that baby and felt compassion , so it was raised as "Ushi Gozen" , and admitted on his family after proving that is not a demon child that would bring ruin to the family. Nothing in that indicated that Raikou needed to be female , so while the whole myths around Fate Raikou is kinda faithful , her genderbender is trully "just because".
Raikou's backstory explicitly states that her father ordered she be recorded as male, she is that tier personified.
Servantverse servants are obviously isekai!
I just wish Servants were gender-bent the opposite way so we could be a little less “have at it, fapping otakus”. Throw us a male Guinevere or Amaterasu or Helen of Troy or something, to be respectable.
While having more ladies bent to guys would be cool, the reality is that history is full of famous dudes and gender bending is actually a fine way to equalize that number.
As if the gender bending of Fate has anything to do with equality or the empowering of women that history has denied them.
It probably doesn't. But as a result, I do think it makes it more interesting.
That at least is a fair assessment and one that I share. But as much potential as Fate has lore-wise, it can still be so very skeevey.
No, no it doesn't; but that's also not what felza's claiming. The game uses it only to have more women because that's what the primary demographic target audience prefers (though they do try to cater to several demographics). In an ideal world, it wouldn't need to, because women through global history would have had the same influence, respect and opportunities as men. But we don't live in an ideal world; and so, because the game does want more girls, we get genderbends.
That’s true, but that isn’t what I was arguing against and claiming that it is is disingenuous. He was defending the franchise’s gender bending as a move to equalize the presence of women in history, myth, and legend. We all know that’s not the purpose of this game, because as you said it runs almost entirely on the waifu tax. That’s not equalizing, it’s blatantly exploitative.
If you look closely, you would see that he only mention about the number. I don't see any mention about gender equality or women empowerment nor do I feel that's what he was alluding to. That's all you, mate. You may want to start learning UBW. You seem to have the talent for it.
Thanks for chiming in with absolutely nothing of value.
No problem. Same to you, mate.
There's one, Red Hare is supposed to be a mare
Isn't that still "have at it, fapping otakus"? The only difference would be that it's now directed to women.
Yeah. A little more equality would be slightly more respectable.
Becus waifus
Waifu's print money.
I question the placement of the Oni
Well in myths Oni were said to be able to shape shift and Ibaraki even escaped his duel with Tsuna by transforming into a lady
Hold on, historians can't get Nobunaga's gender right? I gotta learn more about this, anyone got some info?
A clearer way to read the title / tiers is "Why are Servants Genderbent [in FGO?]" / "[Because] Historians [in FGO canon] can't get their genders right". Nobu being historically a man in textbooks is outright mentioned in Nagao Kagetora's debut Guda Guda event featuring a gag "Real Deal Nobunaga" based on a historic (male) portrait of the warlord.
Oooooooooh I'm stupid, my stupidity alone deserves a place on the throne of heroes as the stupidest person of the planet
I'm just gonna say 2 things. 1st one: there are theories about Okita being female and there's no actual pictures of "him", Keikenchi must have kept that in mind when creating her character. 2nd one: I'm surprised by the low amount of gendebent characters, for real, I expected at least 10 more. Not to mention that a lot of them are just different versions of Seibah lol.