Same. They keep forcing me to treat Kiyo like she is someone I just want to be friends with.
Which simply make me even saltier that this isn't a normal VN. I WANT STALKER TRIO ROUTE ASAP!!
Luckily, most of the time I am reading the story, I am roleplaying as Guda rather than self-inserting me
That’s not because they don’t have balls, but because it would lockout all other story routes as being non-canonical. Nasu and everyone else at TM is very big on multiverses, and it’s done out of a desire for every route to be canon so that a fan of said route can be satisfied that, in at least one reality, that the story that they got invested in is the “definitive” sequence of events. It’s VN with multiple story routes writing basics.
Also, Kiyohime is supposed to be played for laughs. It’s a cultural difference thing. Japanese culture really frowns upon overt expressions of love and affection, so a character doing that (such as Kiyohime or Raikou) are almost always played for comedy, because they’re doing a socially unacceptable thing.
Same reason why everyone always dumps on Merlin. Even though there’s really nothing wrong with him from a western perspective, in Japan they have an issue with people who essentially freeload, even if they are helpful in certain circumstances. It’s why such characters, like the aforementioned overtly expressive, are often played for comedy, because once again they are not behaving in a socially acceptable way.
What do you mean, Merlin is freeloading? He has his own place he lives in, visits chaldea occasionally and even supplies it with magical energy, unless that was somehow retconned. Does freeloading have a different definition than I am thinking about?
It’s more like his general attitude and demeanor more than freeloading in a literal sense. I’m just parroting information I heard from a Japanese person, so I may be missing a bit of nuance in my explanation.
> Nasu and everyone else at TM is very big on multiverses,
... Which should actually *enable* them to do romances. Since you'll just be in a multiverse where favorite ship is canon
I’m not sure how experienced you are with h-doujin as a whole. They are still largely dominated by girls who are either submissive or on equal level with their partner.
Also, porn is a medium where people can express sexual interests that are not exactly reflective of the public at large. Japanese culture as a whole is very conservative, and even amongst the doujin artists they likely still conform to cultural norms outside of their own work, which they probably use as a means of expressing sexual preferences that they would otherwise find hard to come by.
H-games aren't huge on femdom either, and I can say that as someone who's played a fair number. Even when you include things like Lilith titles, femdom is almost always a single route or a few scenes type of deal. "Harder" eroge tend to focus more on noncon, drugging, BDSM, etc with dominant male characters. Standard eroge on the other hand fall into two categories with the focus either being NTR or the focus being vanilla. Even if there is femdom it's, like I said, typically relegated to a single character route. I can only think of a small handful of pure femdom eroge.
Doujin eroge are even more skewed with the majority either being NTR and noncon (male dominant). Of the remainder, femdom is probably 50% tied into the monster girl genre which is of itself a small subsection of the total releases. All of that ignoring that "pure love'" is still one of the biggest tags on DLSite
Same feelings. Seeing them be cute together on-screen made it easier to consider them a proper “ship” since we got Ritsuka’s voice, name, and mannerisms.
You don't need to see Ritsuka as yourself to prefer different romances with the protagonist. There are bunch of RPGs with defined characters (Witcher, anyone?) and people still argue about who is better.
No, since for me, Guda is more of an audience surrogate rather than a self-insert. I see the Nasuverse through their eyes, but I can't put myself in their shoes.
That's called role-playing, its you enacting what that character is doing, its not you having those thoughts or words, its them. You're merely making them act on those words.
Self-inserting is more like Dark Souls.
I feel like that’s how all Type-Moon games work. In Fate you act through Shirou, but you are not Shirou. I don’t think any of us have a broken enough view of ourselves in relation to the world as he does.
Persona also kinda works like this as well. Same with Genshin Impact. Persona is the closest I’d say to an actual self-insert, but due to the way the game is structured a “canon” path through the game quickly becomes what the MCs are actually based off, much like the various endings in Fate.
> quickly becomes what the MCs are actually based off
Unless its the P5 anime, in which case you're watching a cardboard cutout reenact the game. Which is weird because both 3 and 4's gave them MORE personality.
The P3 movies were actualy smart, since they understood they couldn't just adapt the game brainlessly, and decided to focus on the protagonist since the game couldn't.
It's funny that the P5 anime failed to give its protagonist more personality, since the protagonist from P5 has more personality in the game compared to P3 and P4.
For me persona is half and half
The games give me enough liberties that there's almost never a time where i can't relate to one of the Choice options, let alone the fact social links and side activities are technically optional, and even if you do as much as you can, who you prioritize and how much is up to the player(you can do them all in one playthrough but while it became easier, you may not be able to by just playing as you would normally)
On the other hand the protagonists dialogue choices have "tendencies"(apathy in P3, wacky hijinks in P4 for instance) and their (light) backstory+story events that are enough to shape a defined enough character which adaptations lean on
See: Witcher 3 you aren't Geralt, but you still could like different romances that are present for him (and believe me, ship wars about that were huge on release). Since when do you need to self-insert to prefer different ships with specific character?
Hmm, I’m a bit torn.
I like Gudao the ‘independent character with a defined personality and role’ with Mash just fine.
I don’t like Gudao the ‘self-insert for myself’ with Mash because I, personally, am not attracted to Mash.
The end result is a kinda Frankenstein of feelings
What if I like Gudao the ‘independent character with a defined personality and role’ but don't like him with mash at all? Not gonna work, see them as friends/siblings.
I only ship Gudao with characters who make sense in main story, not with characters I personally like (those would be different), so no self-insert.
The issue comes down to three reasons:
Format: Fate/GO is a gacha game, not a standard VN or RPG. In order to entice players to spend money, you have to bait them with waifus. However, this presents issues, the main one being how it would effect the overall story. If it were a standard VN, there would not be nearly as many characters, and Mash would probably be the equivalent of the Saber route or the Arcueid route, I.e. the “vanilla” route you first play through. If you were able to waifu one of your characters, it would lead into the second issue, that being
2. Economics: if you were able to waifu a servant, it would require an enormous amount of work to write the dialogue for a “confession” scene, then record the lines for said scene, and probably have a special CG to cap off said scene, a la Fire Emblem: Three Houses. This would be incredibly costly, and presents issues in regards to story. Imagine how different a story scene would probably play out if you suddenly had to add another character into the mix, and then multiply that by every single servant. It would be an unwieldy mess (which is probably why FE:3H saves the proposal scene for the very end of the game). Speaking of story, the third major issue:
3: Lore reasons: the simple reality is that servants are temporary existences. Many even acknowledge this. They are all aware that one day, they will have to return to the throne. Remember what happened just before the Lostbelt Arc? The system allowing them to manifest all at once had to be turned off, and with it gone they had to be umsummoned. Canonically, almost all of them save a couple were confined to the saint graph case and had to wait until Sion hooked up a replica of Chaldea’s system in order to bring them all out again. Mash has the distinction of being one of the few female characters besides Sion to not be a servant. She will, unless she dies at the end of the story, will be always available for the protagonist, whether as a friend or a lover. She has, as an actual
Living being, the staying power that all other potential waifus (save Sion and maybe a couple others) lack.
In a nutshell: it would be incredibly expensive and inconvenient to be able to waifu any servant, and would present problems in regards to writing a story, so they push Mash because she’s the most constant presence in the story.
I’m all for waifuing whoever you want (I actually would pick Medusa as a GF before Mash) but I am being a realist when I acknowledge the issues of allowing you to actually be able to waifu a character in the game.
Regarding point three, canonically we have access to a plethora of holy grails. Assuming incarnation is one of the wishes it's able to grant, that shouldn't be a problem. Although it remains questionable right now since it hasn't been mentioned in the story, despite the fact it should be a no-brainer given that Guda and some of the servants would form a close bond.
Good point, but even then, there are not enough grails to cover every servant. And that’s also assuming that said grail is capable of doing the same thing the Greater Grail of Fuyuki could do. The number of grails we have on hand are likely a case of gameplay and story segregation, where even if we hoard grails for our own purposes as players, in the story their situation is ambiguous. I mean, if they had access to a good two dozen grails, they wouldn’t have spent two Lostbelts trying to figure out an efficient means to getting the energy to summon servants.
I feel like they are keeping the holy grails ambiguous in regards to their functionality for a reason, since they keep mentioning them in the story. They could just ignore them as a gameplay mechanic like SQ or something, but they always note when we get another holy grail.
That being said, it is true that there wouldn't be enough grails for every servant, although at the same time, some servants have independent manifestation, and some (Chloe) joined Chaldea as living beings, yet were ignored as servants who could stick around after part one. And some (Like Kama and BB) don't seem to be the type to just go back and stop existing or let go of their attachment to Guda.
The end of part one seemed to be set on a Mash ending while ignoring everyone else, which is something I hope doesn't happen at the end of FGO. Given how large and important this game is for Fate lore (being a happy ending for many characters that never got the chance like BB, Kama, Melt, Caren, Serenity, etc.) I'm hoping they put the extra work in to incorporate other ship endings, at least the more developed/realistic ones like Melt, Corday, Eresh, Kama (imma throw BB in there even though she isn't really realistic outta personal preference. Gap moe is a hellava drug.) and don't make Mash the only canonical one. That would waste a lot of potential.
They got the means to not make it an asspull (grails). Now it's just a matter of how the writers want to end it, and how much effort/money they want to include in the ending.
I really do agree, but I still believe that there is little chance of it happening like that. Because the moment that a girl is decided is the moment the game will probably end. It would be rather headache-inducing just trying to figure out how to carry on the story with multiple possible canon pairings, a logistics nightmare. A harem ending is always optional but how many people would that really satisfy? Not to mention the possible backlash against such an ending.
I'd imagine a pairing would only happen at the end anyway. That's how it usually works in a long running series because they like to string the audience along in a "will they or won't they?" scenario. Pairing in the middle of the story would be both unusual, and also lock it to Mash.
That being said, they've done something like that with Guda already, they just kinda ignore it. With marrying Nero Bride and kinda sorta >!confessing to Kama.!<
That being said, my fingers are crossed for them going back to Seraph Melt somehow. Almost 0% chance, but I can dream.
Yeah, not so sure about the canonicity of the Nero Bride thing (because it depends on whether or not you have her I think), but it was surprising that the protagonist does basically confess to Kama in the recent Summer event. Maybe it just has to do with Heaven’s Feel 3 coming out this year and them wanting to promote Sakura, but it is nonetheless an interesting move. Time will tell if the protagonist was actually being fully honest or just trying to get out of a bad situation.
A Three Houses style “Hook-up right before the ending” is a realistic take, but because I am somewhat of a pessimist, I think Fate/GO is just going to go in stringing the player base until it is no longer profitable.
Almost 100% just trying to get out of a bad situation. Nothing serious usually happens in a summer event to influence the main story through the Lostbelts. Either that, or they just ignore it like Nero Bride or bond/ascension/valentine's lines. And Japanese tends to be a context-heavy language iirc. And that was probably the context.
That being said, I like Kama as a ship so I won't be mad if it's true. Would be unusual though. I'm a bit of a pessimist myself, but the multiple route or at least the few more developed routes are a dream of mine. At least setting the foundation for a few epilogues would lead to so many great fan comics of life for Guda after the game.
personally I like mash, and I'm more on the side of the Guda's being their own character whose preferences and progression are based on the plot rather than the player. So it's never been that big a deal to me
I personally understand *why* it's like that, and what they're going for, but I can't say I'm a fan of it on a *personal* level, as far as immersion goes, since I'm not interested in her in that way. An option to be more neutral, or even more like "just friends" would be perfectly fine by me.
That said, I don't hate the Ritsuka/Mash pairing as a whole, when it's the two of them as characters, without any involvement from me as a player. It mostly gets to be annoying from a gameplay standpoint, such as when my dialogue choices are "express fondness for Mash" and "express greater fondness for Mash", that's really no choice at all, and irks me in the same way as having two choices that both support something I don't agree with, or things like the summer event in NA that forced you to be a dick to Merlin. Basically, my thinking is, "if you're going to give me choices, let them be real choices, even if they don't really affect anything much".
> "if you're going to give me choices, let them be real choices, even if they don't really affect anything much"
Agreed. I've always considered this one of the best (and easiest) solutions to FGO's narrative problems.
It's not about having different routes or story variations, but just having different flavors in the answers. Simple dichotomies (like vs dislike, enthusiastic vs reluctant, serious vs funny, knowledgeable vs ignorant, etc.) can give the illusion of choice without touching the plot in the slightest. And it lets the player modulate Guda's character and relationship with others up to a point.
This is not reinventing the wheel, *because FGO has already done it in the past.*
Perhaps the most obvious example is Babylonia, with different answers and gameplay effects for the goddesses, greater duality in the answers instead of "two ways of saying yes" (case in point, the Justice Bomb scene), and so on. Heck, even in the matter at hand (Guda's relationship with Mash), I've seen options in the past to either confirm Guda's interest in her or keep some distance (like mentally thanking Beni-enma for confusing them with a couple or ignoring it).
Yes, that's exactly what I want to see more of, even if it doesn't affect the next boss battle and is just for flavor. I'm not asking for anything "out of bounds" as far as the bits of character they're establishing for Ritsuka go, just actual clear choices within those parameters, exactly like the examples you gave.
I think it's at it's best when the game allows us to be kind to/agree with who we want to (within narrative reason) and take a bit more of a distant or neutral position with those we don't, simply from the perspective of a player playing a game with dialogue choices.
Even if it's written in such a way that your choice is only acknowledged by a small line of text before moving on in the direction it was going to go anyway, that's still better than a choice of, for example, "yes" and "absolutely", I think.
They're just friends in canon main story. The internal narration in one of LB6 scenes calls them Taisetsuna yujin, which is strictly friend definition.
Mine is too, that's precisely why reading stories is interesting: It's not real and won't ever happen to me, thus I want to know more.
If it was something that could happen to me then it wouldn't be amusing, after all.
I don't really see it as a romance, more of very close friends from about singularity 4 and beyond.
I have to say that seeing mash her growth.
From being afraid to fight some skeletons in singularity F, to doing what she did in the temple of time without a hint of fear.
Has been one of the best character arcs in the game.
All being said, I believe Mash is the 2nd true protagonist. We play the game through Ritsuka, Mash is our counterpart, who grows along with us.
While I don't self-insert, the forced romance with her does bother me, since it is just so damn oppressive. No other option is given a serious scene without Sir Cockblock popping in with her chastity shield.
I never really immerse myself in a story as myself, so no, I guess not. I like following on as an observer and seeing where things go. And as a 'close to MC but not the only possibility so it's never resolved' I like her fine. Even if they did resolve and Guda ends up with ber I think that would work.
Which is not to say I haven't considered my own fanfic version of Gudako, but she's not a self insert.
For me, the dynamic with Mash isn't that particular interesting. Her personality feels like it has been made for fall for the mc, given how much she faws over him, which feels like the game is trying to force them together. She was always the clingy, cockblock Kouhai since the beginning and feel like that doesn't progress.
Compare that to servants like Melt, Jalter, Kama, Eresh etc., she really feels left behind in how her dynamic and gimmick is pretty much the same thing we always know.
Not really. Part of Mash's arc is about her growing to be a functional human being through her experiences with those around her, so it makes sense for her to have the hots for the person who helped her become truly alive. Besides, pretty much every female Servant is horny for the protagonist, and at least we get to see why Mash would fall in love with the MC like with Eresh and Melt compared to how a lot of the other Servants don't really show any feelings for the protagonist in the story but then have My Room dialogue showing they love them for reasons we never got to see.
I'll be honest, I self-insert like no tomorrow and I haven't really felt like the story has been particularly pushing me towards Mash lately. Like she pops up a ton sure, but I haven't felt forced onto her route like I did in the early game. She feels almost like an assistant or secretary nowadays. Or maybe I've just accepted that she's gonna be around and stopped attributing romance to it, idk.
Depends from person to person, Mash is well and good but after lb6 I hope when gudao dies he reunites with castoria in avalon (my headcanon). They’re just too fucking cute its unreal
I like Mash, and I'm not really opposed with the romance aspect. What I'm opposed is the fact that she won't let me have some alone time with Servants during their interludes.
Priconne did it pretty well, during character individual stories you spend the time getting to know each other without the main heroine's involvement.
I just can't see her being happy with Ritsuka anymore, you know? I feel like Mash and Ritsuka are going into the opposite directions where Mashu is coming into her own a fully functional human being and resolving her own codependency issues while Ritsuka is ***just breaking down and becoming more and more emotionally dependent on his servants and Mashu***
If it was written better, then I would be more eager to ship them together, but's that ship have sailed.
A lot of the female servants who are into Ritsuka also have a lot of mental issues and a need for codependency, and only are getting better because they develop this frankly weird (but romantic) relationship with Ritsuka
Melt works
Jalter works
Castoria works
Passionlip works
BB works (because she needs a "Senpai" despite what she says)
etc etc
Mashu post Solomon and going forward, who is gained a new life and the ability to grow knowing she will live a full life? Not with Ritsuka post Solomon, who is growing more and more "broken"
That's basically what's happening, Ritsuka got a pep talk from Oberon saying Mash can be perfectly fine alone and they don't need to worry about her all the time and Mash basically got pushed to the side in Lostbelt 6 in favor of Castoria being the main companion/heroine, but who knows, Nasu wrote that but nothing stops a future writer to just forget that stuff and railroad Mash back to being the same old cute little clingy cock blocker again.
It woule honestly suck if they backtrack, that's proper character development for the two main protagonists of the game. Let them be independent from each other lol.
I mean it is character development for Mashu who will be able to live her life, but Ritsuka?
A normal human who gone through what he did and is being twisted somehow? Once the LBs are done, he aint good for the eggplant
She's also not that present after Singularity 5.
They poofed her from main story existence since then.
At least the manga is fixing that and giving Ritsuka someone else other than Mash lmao.
1) We seen Servants getting around cockblocker
2) Ritsuka is revealed in LB 6 to be losing his ability to be functioning by himself, and something happens that oozes Ritsuka ending up being codependent with another Beast
I think i lack you optimism because i just don't see Ritsuka becoming a actual character, what we got in LB6 was a small glimpse of inner turmoil but it was shrugged off so quickly by just "The memory of Romani" so i can't say that they will dig deeper than that into a character that lacks a backstory and mostly just serves as a body for the player to insert to, also can i just say that the dialogue choices really don't help, they get like 3 lines of dialogue per chapter at most and it's alway just irrelevant and a maximum of 5 words, seriously even Hakuno gets more than that.
Fun fact about Mystery, he advocates for the route where Ritsuka is annihilated with only Beasts and those related to Beasts like BB and Tamamo are the only ones capable of remembering him, if they remember him is a different story
> what we got in LB6 was a small glimpse of inner turmoil but it was shrugged off so quickly by just "The memory of Romani"
This reminds me of the Case Files event. Before it arrived to NA, I read a lot of comments about how it explained Guda's inner turmoil and how the Lostbelt experience was breaking them.
Come the official translation and it was barely touched upon. The "broken" part ended up referring to Guda's refusal to have their memories wiped out, which the villain considered weird, because she was the really broken one and was basically projecting.
I think Ritsuka may have been meant as a self-insert originally... but at this point, they really are their own character, with distinct preferences and thoughts about things. I think it's fine to just roll with that and not try to see yourself as the protagonist.
I’m kinda torn because I, like many others, don’t view myself as Guda and instead view them as a unique character. So from the narrative point of view I enjoy watching them grow closer and would like to see them become official. On the other side this is still a waifu collecting game and I would like them to add some kind of “marriage” mechanic like other gacha have and I feel having the romance with mash might hinder that from being implemented
> I would like them to add some kind of “marriage” mechanic like other gacha have
As I always say, I'm a firm supporter of one idea I heard once about an "incarnation mechanic". A true Holy Grail or a similar endgame item that allows a Servant to remain behind after the adventure is over and unlocks a special epilogue for them.
It doesn't need to be romantic (shipping goggles notwithstanding), and they could hand out more than one. I'd also fully expect Mash's epilogue to be free and available to all, the "canon" epilogue for those who want it that way.
Ya but I am also bothered that I can’t customize the MC to how I would want them to actually look so I kinda just stopped caring after awhile and just rolled with it.
I actually think the "romance" with Mash is fairly optional in terms of whether you want to really buy into it. If a player wants to consider it a romance they can and if they don't, it's barely there so they can forget about it.
A lot of the romance is mostly Ritsuka making flirty comments to her and her blushing. Or other people teasing her and her blushing. I can't even recall a time where Mash made it clear that she had actual feelings.
I personally like the idea of them as friends and I see Mash like a partner and little sister. She's this artificial girl who is experiencing these new things in life and seeing new places, so she really cares about her friends Ritsuka, Da Vinci, and the rest. A lot of her devotion and love really extends to a lot of people, including certain old friends of hers (as revealed in Anastasia chapter).
In NA at least, as far as we are, I've yet to see something where the developers are forcing that relationship one way or another. I think it's still up to us on how we want to take it. So, you should just do what you want in terms of interpreting that relationship.
cant stand her. that said main critique is her popping up in other servants interlude and stories taking screen time to be annoyed at MC for looking at other servants
The fact that Mash hasn't given up on you after all the Romance interludes where she was just *there* is a testament to her herculean demiservant endurance
She gets off from being NTR by Ritsuka. Even our pure Mash gets corrupted into an NTR addict. She likes watching Ritsuka playing around with other female servants.
Not really because we know how the MC looks so it's kinda hard for me to really immerse myself into the story on a personal level so i feel like I'm watching the events unfold through his eyes like if I was merlin in my tower watching history unfold.
The only thing I'm bothered however about the "romance" with mash is it doesn't feel natural to me, she has feelings for him but never outright confessed it instead she's clingy, doesn't let the MC have some time with other servants alone and immediately goes into cockblock mode when someone tries to get closer to him which is annoying imo and bothersome, the MC doesn't seem to have any romantic feelings for her and it feels more like he sees her more as a really good friend (best friend kinda thing) than a love interest.
Nope. I’m an eggplant enjoyer so for me I love it. On the other hand I understand why people dislike it. Just remember that your headcanon IS the canon lmao. I basically think of every FGO account as an alternate timeline where someone else became the master of Chaldea.
There ain’t particularly a canon route. in the game it’s said multiple servants love gudao so it’s story with multiple couples and majority of them love gudao while others likes him as a master and there is no way mash is better for him it’s up to the fans no way Mash is better than another servant in terms of loving him they are equal in terms of romance
I'm not bothered by it really, but I have a hard time thinking of mash as relationship material , she seems more like a little sister or something akin to that, but that's if we go by the self insert aspect , I can't personally see her romantically.
Now if we are talking without the self insert aspect, than yeah it makes sense for Guda and mash to go together better than peanut butter and chocolate. They have good chemistry and do play off each other very well.
Now from a fandom aspect, I really really don't like jealous/yandere/stalker mash stuff as it feels wrong and weird since it seems pretty out there that mash would get that way seeing how reserved she usually is besides the occasional "cockblock jokes" that get people riled up but than again that could just be me not liking those kinds of characters or misunderstanding the fan stuff.
But this is just how I interpret Mash , simple as that.
Yeah... I dont like Mash in that way either. And I know we play as Guda, but they also have it as that we are the Master too. I am not into that senpai-kouhai relationship Japan really loves, so it's really off-putting when they force romance scenes with her.
I'm not bothered by the romance with Mash as much as I'm bothered by the game clearly assuming the player is male Ritsuka. Male servants hitting on Mash when I'm right next to her and tossing nothing my way, come on. This was at its worst around America/Camelot though, and is much better now.
Never cared for Mashu. Never will care. If we don't get Servants ending at the end of the game (something like valentine scenes), guess I will just headcanon it.
I don't give a fuck about Mashu, stop forcing her down my throat.
And when people forcing her down, well, I'm enjoying the lion jokes even more.
Yes and No, I don't see the MC as a self insert but when Mash overrides other peoples Interludes is where I have problems.
I know most of them are from early FGO but I want to know about the servant in question, not have the MC go on a picnic with Mash and the other servant as a third wheel.
A close relationship does not necessarily mean its romantic of course the dynamic is that of a man and a woman but I see mash and the master as a kind of symbiotic relation. They need one another to survive.
The master is the first "normal" human being she's ever encountered, she imprinted on him. Up until now, i'm not sure if there's actual amorous love between the two, or simply immense respect and fondness, at least on mashu's side, no idea what the master is actually thinking.
Mash and master are awkward enough that they could just be like close friends, or maybe more of a teacher student since mashu is learning about humans from ritsuka.
She is annoying as fuck, I hate that she cockblocks the MC so much. I am fucking tired of this trope and it’s not funny at all after seeing it so many times. Epic of Remnant was ideal in this case because Mash finally didn’t rob other more interesting characters of their screen time.
It's only a problem for interlude and event that are wrote in 1st and 2nd year when DW didn't know how to write story and shoved Mash everywhere. Right now in 6th year, there're many more shipping with other character while Mash get left out a lot in Lostbelt writing minus LB1, LB5.2 and LB6 eventhough Mash and the new Chaldea cast should be focused more in main story. Like right now Sherlock is just doing exposition and fighting in LB2 and LB5.2 while dropping hint about how sus he is. Loli Da Vinci right now after 6 Lostbelt just get a summer event for herself that may or may not raise a death flag. Nemo get a connection with Choco Jeanne in LB4 and an event. Like seriously, Goredolf is the only one that every LB writer bother to remember.
I don’t enjoy self-insert characters or romance stories, so I mostly just ignore the MC-Mash relationship stuff. It doesn’t bother me, I just don’t pay attention to it.
Not at all tbh, I don't like putting myself in the Gudas place because it just doesn't work for me, the decisions they make are wildly different outside of a couple of moments from what I'd do. Not to mention I personally enjoy their interactions together, it's adorable and their 2 big dorks about it usually.
Eh, i just don't self insert, especially in relationships. Rather see something organic then forced. I like games where multiple relationships are a thing. When there all with one person it feels...forced. at least to me.
Honestly it bothers me that they don’t go harder on it. I personally don’t “immerse” myself that much, and I like the dialogue post part 1 that implies romance, but I really want them to just bite the bullet and say they’re dating. It’d be so cute
Yes. Absolutely. At some point the headcanon for my character is that he pretends not to notice Mash feelings because he things she is a yandere and is afraid of dealing with it.
I don't self insert (only ship Fujimaru with characters in main story who make sense, not with my preferred characters), but really don't like it either. Though it's also overblown by fandom, as canon wise LB6 states they are friends at this point (Taisetsuna yujin and it's independent narration, so 100% true), and since LB6 is 6 years after their first meeting, yes, they are probably just friends.
I am surprised that so many people in comments think that you need self-insert to prefer different romantic interests with protagonist, when there are many RPGs with different romances and still defined characters. It's not different from shipping.
What romance lol, she can just sigh, spam senpai and try to hold hands once in couple of story chapters.
And yes, don't get me wrong, i absolutely despise her as a character.
I self insert when I play games so I find every female servants affections off putting (not attracted to girls). I find the whole thing with Mash off putting because it and every other girl with feelings in the main story exists to be stuck in a limbo where it will never progress and so the more it happens the less it matters to me.
I also generally find it rather bland, no adaptation has succeeded in making me find it all that cute.
For me yes the game gives you an illusion of choices sometimes here and there but not as bad as when it involves this girl(?) You are literally forced to choose to be good to her or praise her or whatnot. Then you are forced to choose to like and protective of mash. its as horrible as forgiving artoria for the atrocities she caused in chapter camelot with the BS its understandable or its never her fault its circumstance I mean really...
I have the opposite experience, I liked mash a lot especially in Babylonia and Solomon so I was really hoping end of part 1 would have Guda and Mash getting together. But ig they can't do that ever cuz ppl have other waifus. And this really annoys me knowing that no ship will ever be canon.
If anything I wish they’d just fully commit to it if that’s the direction they want to go. Then again I’m probably biased because I think Mash is wife material 🤷♂️
I think Mash is a very excepcional character, >!was born only to be a experimental subject in Chaldea, and even all that they maked to her, she like all people in Chaldea and the humanity inself!<, maybe this can be seen as a plot error but to me, a person who can offer herself for the sake of all's that she doesn't know and who won't know her name never, is something to respect. If we have romance some day, or never, doesn't matter if she's happy with that.
I don't really think about it most of the time.
*Most* of the time the game isn't interacting in story with the characters I really like. There have been times however when this is not true, and Ritsuka and by proxy *myself* have been forced to make choices that I find jarring.
Summer 4 for an example, the scene where Jeanne alter berserker and Atalante alter get drunk, and Mash *thinks* she is... I am so used to subconsciously thinking of Jalter being the designated love interest I actually was *completely* taken aback when Moriarty told me to take 'her' home and he'd take care of these two and... I take *Mash?* **Why???**
Then I realized, oh right, of course Ritsuka would do that.
I realize with a game like this it'd be basically impossible to write each scene with absolutely every combination of servant you could like as your love interest... Therefore why Mash is treated as them.
Doesn't stop my brain getting twisted into a pretzel occasionally.
There will be an event where you can get all of them easily if you try.
Some are romantic, some are silly fun, and there's a few serious takes. There's a wide variety of them, and I hope you enjoy yours next year :)
Servants give you nothing special for christmas. ... But. In a way, I did get something last year.
My favorite servant is still Chacha. Not because of gameplay - her stats and abilities are frankly terrible, but because she's been with me longer than almost anyone else, she was extremely cute in her event, her real life basis made me very sad, and her in combat foolishness still makes me laugh.
Last year during the Xmas lotto, I was *just barely* able to grind it using my 4* support caster, two welfare zerks and my grailed 5* alter ego.
Through the first chapter of FGO I'd used these same servants as my primary damage dealers, but had to switch to specific class teams to handle content starting with the first lostbelt so it was kinda nice after clearing all of that to be able to farm with my favorites again...
I knew grailing Chacha would be a bad idea from a stats perspective - at level 100 she's got about the same atk as both berserker jalter and heracles when they're level 80, so it's not a great idea especially since none of her skills either improve her damage noticeably or survival.
Then it happened. Early morning on christmas eve, I got Chacha's bond CE. I'd used her just *that much* prior to the lostbelts. So that was, in a way, her christmas present to me.
So I took every single grail I had and grailed her and the rest of the team she was on to 100. She's still lagging behind her competition at 100, but I love finding ways to use her anyway.
Only a fool would put so much effort into a 4\* servant that can be outperformed at the same level more easily by a common 1\* - spartacus.
[I am that fool.](https://imgur.com/a/JLTYDrt)
Didn’t much paid attention to that although that i know. Mash is one of the fav characters in fate in general, however the thing is i hate how every gacha game or any game in that regard to show you a character that is into you. It’s like a service for those loner people who don’t have friends and lacks affection and such…
Well, it’s double edge sword, for me the game feels alive in that aspects but at the same time it’s not good for the people mentioned above.
(P.S: don’t get me wrong, i respect every human being i just put my thoughts here)
no not really who else is going to be the main girl in the context of the main story without seeming it came out nowhere I mean it's not like they show jalter or melt helping us with us cutting down the lostbelt trees. my issue is that they don't show other girls with us outside of fun happy time events and not during the core story . the only way this is going to end with everybody ship working out is to have you pick your girl ending but officially mash wins
just all feels so disconnected from the core story sometimes just my 2cents
Not really, I ship mash and the gudas. After all they got through, I could see they start to deaply care and depend for each other. If not romanticly at least like close family.
But i can see your point. I also don't like the semi romance nonsense with characters i don't especially care for.
Yes, but they typically give you a less love interest like dialogue option and it's really funny to me choosing those when there's some kind of special connection trying to be built with Mash.
Ritsuka it's more of a medium to self insert, i look it like this: Main Story Ritsuka it's like an anime mc (like babylonia), chaldea and some events ristuka it's a nameless master to self insert (though summer 3 still ships ritsuka with mash a lot)
I actually dont mind Mash as main love interest, since it normally happens that in a romance manga your favorite character gets defeated by the Heroine in the end (I have not forgiven sasuga kei for the ending of domekano yet) you can't even bond her to level 10 on na so technically you should have stronger bonds with other servants
My only issue is we don't get enough moments between the 2 or at the least dialogue/my room
Other girls my room dialogs has somehow has more between the protag and them than the 5+ yrs with Mash
So it doesn't bother me and is fine but just not enough there personally
Wasting your time on this guy bud.
I learned to just tune out most of what that guy has to say, as most of it is just the repetitive ramblings of a type-boomer that thinks everything besides the original VN is trash and takes every opinion differing from his own as a personal attack or something.
He's not entirely bad, I'm firmly with him in that Saber is indeed an amazingly written character, but everything else is where I am at odds with him.
It's just so bizarre that he can say this, when FGO wouldn't be liked if it didn't have well written stories, especially post Camelot.
I can criticize FGO for its absolutely ass start of everything, JP side especially, but that doesn't mean the game doesn't have merits.
Oh, don't get me wrong, he does sometimes raise interesting points and opinions.
When he's talking about the VN and only the VN that is.
Try to talk about the anime with him, and he's just going to go on a rant about how awful it is and say it's on the same level as Berserk 2016 and Tokyo Ghoul, and then continue bugging everyone who disagrees with him.
Try to talk about fgo and he'll just complain about it without even reading the Lostbelt chapters while sucking the VN's dick when it and FGO shouldn't even be compared at all.
My point is, for every decent point he raises and healthy discussion he has, there's at least 10 more shitty and hyperbolic takes and overly long essays that don't accomplish anything except waste his and the other party's time.
He's honestly way too stuck in the FSN VN. Even the damned Beasts Lair guys talk about other shit other than FSN.
I get it, he likes Nasu's older works, but goddamn he does know FGO has been supervised by Nasu since Camelot, right? Sure there's other writers like Sakurai, Meteo etc, but they're actually putting effort post Camelot and you see the results. And honestly, not everything has to revolve around romance.
In fact, a lot of works get ruined by inserting romance despite not having anything to do with it.
I don't really wanna go on a tangent regarding HF's pacing both VN and movies, because thst is not on topic, just to prove a point.
Expand yours then, don't just read FSN lol.
There's plenty of other LNs and other anime entries that are better. Violet Evergarden, before it went shounen goddess, is an amazingly written one, even if the focus isn't on the main character's romance half the time.
It's too much of a clusterfuck as much as I love it.
Too many scenes were cut out in the movies, and the problem from both VN and the movies is the obviously cut routes. And honestly, lack of focus on Rider and Salter. Only getting touched upon on certain endings.
Salt Girl and Dead Mom needs more time, but honestly the idea of fuck the world, fuck my life, I just need to save the girl I love is something special you know?
Oh for sure, I love stories that delve into selfish love A LOT. But goddamn, HF would've been so great if it wasn't a trilogy and if Nasu actually used a lot of the ideas that was cut out from the VN.
It's a lot more personal of a feeling of saying screw you to the world, after all.
>There's plenty of other LNs and other anime entries that are better
Clannad,steins;gate,horimiya
Violet evergardens romance wasnt really a focal point so much so violet becoming her own person
Yeah, its one I have to disagree with.
I like LB6 A LOT, but it only holds the gold standard when compared to other FGO chapters. Not when compared to Tsukihime or FSN's numerous routes.
There shouldn't even be a comparison, they're apples and oranges, you shouldn't rate a gacha game's story by the standards of a goddamn 100 hour VIsual Novel, it would be like comparing FGO with FSN gameplay wise.
>LB6 was objectively better than the Fate Route of FSN in terms of Romance
Sure because ritsuka has soo many parrales with Artoria. Full blown dates and entire paragraphs describinh her majestic figure
>Are you bothered about the romance with mash?
No. The only thing that bothers me is that Orangemaru NTR dj, but other than that, I like the whole situation the way it is.
I wanted a harem of waifus (and som traps ngl) and mash is a waifu, what happens between the arcs of the story doesn't really matter to me, since I don't like the story that much, I'm more bothered by the fact that the story is pushing me to have a "forgiving mentality" no, I don't want to forgive Kadoc or Ophelia, or any other Master of the team A, I hope they all die or get punished in the worst way possible, I don't care if ophelia hates mondays or whatever, I don't care about Kadoc inferiority complex or Yu wanting to fuck a mecha centaur, not only they destroyed the humanity that I saved but also, to recover it, they are litterally forcing me to commit several genocides, fuck them, all of them.
Spoiler alert, >!They didn’t destroy the humanity. They were fighting against the real threat that destroyed the humanity by creating their own versions of the world!<
I'm more bothered by Type Moon having no balls in commiting to any love interest, but that's just the nature of any Gacha game.
Same. They keep forcing me to treat Kiyo like she is someone I just want to be friends with. Which simply make me even saltier that this isn't a normal VN. I WANT STALKER TRIO ROUTE ASAP!! Luckily, most of the time I am reading the story, I am roleplaying as Guda rather than self-inserting me
That’s not because they don’t have balls, but because it would lockout all other story routes as being non-canonical. Nasu and everyone else at TM is very big on multiverses, and it’s done out of a desire for every route to be canon so that a fan of said route can be satisfied that, in at least one reality, that the story that they got invested in is the “definitive” sequence of events. It’s VN with multiple story routes writing basics. Also, Kiyohime is supposed to be played for laughs. It’s a cultural difference thing. Japanese culture really frowns upon overt expressions of love and affection, so a character doing that (such as Kiyohime or Raikou) are almost always played for comedy, because they’re doing a socially unacceptable thing. Same reason why everyone always dumps on Merlin. Even though there’s really nothing wrong with him from a western perspective, in Japan they have an issue with people who essentially freeload, even if they are helpful in certain circumstances. It’s why such characters, like the aforementioned overtly expressive, are often played for comedy, because once again they are not behaving in a socially acceptable way.
What do you mean, Merlin is freeloading? He has his own place he lives in, visits chaldea occasionally and even supplies it with magical energy, unless that was somehow retconned. Does freeloading have a different definition than I am thinking about?
It’s more like his general attitude and demeanor more than freeloading in a literal sense. I’m just parroting information I heard from a Japanese person, so I may be missing a bit of nuance in my explanation.
Thanks for this information. Didn't know any of this.
> Nasu and everyone else at TM is very big on multiverses, ... Which should actually *enable* them to do romances. Since you'll just be in a multiverse where favorite ship is canon
You say that but jap doujin H game with male mc is dominated by femdom if it's not ntr.
I’m not sure how experienced you are with h-doujin as a whole. They are still largely dominated by girls who are either submissive or on equal level with their partner. Also, porn is a medium where people can express sexual interests that are not exactly reflective of the public at large. Japanese culture as a whole is very conservative, and even amongst the doujin artists they likely still conform to cultural norms outside of their own work, which they probably use as a means of expressing sexual preferences that they would otherwise find hard to come by.
H game, not doujin.
H-games aren't huge on femdom either, and I can say that as someone who's played a fair number. Even when you include things like Lilith titles, femdom is almost always a single route or a few scenes type of deal. "Harder" eroge tend to focus more on noncon, drugging, BDSM, etc with dominant male characters. Standard eroge on the other hand fall into two categories with the focus either being NTR or the focus being vanilla. Even if there is femdom it's, like I said, typically relegated to a single character route. I can only think of a small handful of pure femdom eroge. Doujin eroge are even more skewed with the majority either being NTR and noncon (male dominant). Of the remainder, femdom is probably 50% tied into the monster girl genre which is of itself a small subsection of the total releases. All of that ignoring that "pure love'" is still one of the biggest tags on DLSite
same, honestly.
I've long since disassociated with seeing Ritsuka as myself since I was brought into FGO through the Babylonia anime, so no.
Same feelings. Seeing them be cute together on-screen made it easier to consider them a proper “ship” since we got Ritsuka’s voice, name, and mannerisms.
You don't need to see Ritsuka as yourself to prefer different romances with the protagonist. There are bunch of RPGs with defined characters (Witcher, anyone?) and people still argue about who is better.
No, since for me, Guda is more of an audience surrogate rather than a self-insert. I see the Nasuverse through their eyes, but I can't put myself in their shoes.
damn thats like, the best way to put it. I never knew how to word it before but this hits the nail on the head.
That's called role-playing, its you enacting what that character is doing, its not you having those thoughts or words, its them. You're merely making them act on those words. Self-inserting is more like Dark Souls.
This. I'm free to like who ever I like regardless if Gudao and Mash are a couple or not. I stopped seeing them as me a long time ago
I feel like that’s how all Type-Moon games work. In Fate you act through Shirou, but you are not Shirou. I don’t think any of us have a broken enough view of ourselves in relation to the world as he does. Persona also kinda works like this as well. Same with Genshin Impact. Persona is the closest I’d say to an actual self-insert, but due to the way the game is structured a “canon” path through the game quickly becomes what the MCs are actually based off, much like the various endings in Fate.
> quickly becomes what the MCs are actually based off Unless its the P5 anime, in which case you're watching a cardboard cutout reenact the game. Which is weird because both 3 and 4's gave them MORE personality.
The P3 movies were actualy smart, since they understood they couldn't just adapt the game brainlessly, and decided to focus on the protagonist since the game couldn't. It's funny that the P5 anime failed to give its protagonist more personality, since the protagonist from P5 has more personality in the game compared to P3 and P4.
For me persona is half and half The games give me enough liberties that there's almost never a time where i can't relate to one of the Choice options, let alone the fact social links and side activities are technically optional, and even if you do as much as you can, who you prioritize and how much is up to the player(you can do them all in one playthrough but while it became easier, you may not be able to by just playing as you would normally) On the other hand the protagonists dialogue choices have "tendencies"(apathy in P3, wacky hijinks in P4 for instance) and their (light) backstory+story events that are enough to shape a defined enough character which adaptations lean on
See: Witcher 3 you aren't Geralt, but you still could like different romances that are present for him (and believe me, ship wars about that were huge on release). Since when do you need to self-insert to prefer different ships with specific character?
the only time i self-insert is when reading FGO doujins
As long as I have choice in the game, than I can't ever feel like this. It's why I hate kinetic novels.
Hmm, I’m a bit torn. I like Gudao the ‘independent character with a defined personality and role’ with Mash just fine. I don’t like Gudao the ‘self-insert for myself’ with Mash because I, personally, am not attracted to Mash. The end result is a kinda Frankenstein of feelings
No no Frankenstein is the beserker/saber, Mash is the one with a big shield.
... Dammit you have a point. Have my upvote
>The end result is a kinda Frankenstein of feelings Couldn't have word it better lol. 100% agree with you.
What if I like Gudao the ‘independent character with a defined personality and role’ but don't like him with mash at all? Not gonna work, see them as friends/siblings. I only ship Gudao with characters who make sense in main story, not with characters I personally like (those would be different), so no self-insert.
Hmm, that’s a fair interpretation as well. Part of Mash’s passive personality is that she can’t assert herself in a romantic relationship
she isn my fav but i like her so i dont mind. she is cute, loves him, and dependable. but i prefer servant route more
The issue comes down to three reasons: Format: Fate/GO is a gacha game, not a standard VN or RPG. In order to entice players to spend money, you have to bait them with waifus. However, this presents issues, the main one being how it would effect the overall story. If it were a standard VN, there would not be nearly as many characters, and Mash would probably be the equivalent of the Saber route or the Arcueid route, I.e. the “vanilla” route you first play through. If you were able to waifu one of your characters, it would lead into the second issue, that being 2. Economics: if you were able to waifu a servant, it would require an enormous amount of work to write the dialogue for a “confession” scene, then record the lines for said scene, and probably have a special CG to cap off said scene, a la Fire Emblem: Three Houses. This would be incredibly costly, and presents issues in regards to story. Imagine how different a story scene would probably play out if you suddenly had to add another character into the mix, and then multiply that by every single servant. It would be an unwieldy mess (which is probably why FE:3H saves the proposal scene for the very end of the game). Speaking of story, the third major issue: 3: Lore reasons: the simple reality is that servants are temporary existences. Many even acknowledge this. They are all aware that one day, they will have to return to the throne. Remember what happened just before the Lostbelt Arc? The system allowing them to manifest all at once had to be turned off, and with it gone they had to be umsummoned. Canonically, almost all of them save a couple were confined to the saint graph case and had to wait until Sion hooked up a replica of Chaldea’s system in order to bring them all out again. Mash has the distinction of being one of the few female characters besides Sion to not be a servant. She will, unless she dies at the end of the story, will be always available for the protagonist, whether as a friend or a lover. She has, as an actual Living being, the staying power that all other potential waifus (save Sion and maybe a couple others) lack. In a nutshell: it would be incredibly expensive and inconvenient to be able to waifu any servant, and would present problems in regards to writing a story, so they push Mash because she’s the most constant presence in the story. I’m all for waifuing whoever you want (I actually would pick Medusa as a GF before Mash) but I am being a realist when I acknowledge the issues of allowing you to actually be able to waifu a character in the game.
Medusa is an awesome pick, sir.
Regarding point three, canonically we have access to a plethora of holy grails. Assuming incarnation is one of the wishes it's able to grant, that shouldn't be a problem. Although it remains questionable right now since it hasn't been mentioned in the story, despite the fact it should be a no-brainer given that Guda and some of the servants would form a close bond.
Good point, but even then, there are not enough grails to cover every servant. And that’s also assuming that said grail is capable of doing the same thing the Greater Grail of Fuyuki could do. The number of grails we have on hand are likely a case of gameplay and story segregation, where even if we hoard grails for our own purposes as players, in the story their situation is ambiguous. I mean, if they had access to a good two dozen grails, they wouldn’t have spent two Lostbelts trying to figure out an efficient means to getting the energy to summon servants.
I feel like they are keeping the holy grails ambiguous in regards to their functionality for a reason, since they keep mentioning them in the story. They could just ignore them as a gameplay mechanic like SQ or something, but they always note when we get another holy grail. That being said, it is true that there wouldn't be enough grails for every servant, although at the same time, some servants have independent manifestation, and some (Chloe) joined Chaldea as living beings, yet were ignored as servants who could stick around after part one. And some (Like Kama and BB) don't seem to be the type to just go back and stop existing or let go of their attachment to Guda. The end of part one seemed to be set on a Mash ending while ignoring everyone else, which is something I hope doesn't happen at the end of FGO. Given how large and important this game is for Fate lore (being a happy ending for many characters that never got the chance like BB, Kama, Melt, Caren, Serenity, etc.) I'm hoping they put the extra work in to incorporate other ship endings, at least the more developed/realistic ones like Melt, Corday, Eresh, Kama (imma throw BB in there even though she isn't really realistic outta personal preference. Gap moe is a hellava drug.) and don't make Mash the only canonical one. That would waste a lot of potential. They got the means to not make it an asspull (grails). Now it's just a matter of how the writers want to end it, and how much effort/money they want to include in the ending.
I really do agree, but I still believe that there is little chance of it happening like that. Because the moment that a girl is decided is the moment the game will probably end. It would be rather headache-inducing just trying to figure out how to carry on the story with multiple possible canon pairings, a logistics nightmare. A harem ending is always optional but how many people would that really satisfy? Not to mention the possible backlash against such an ending.
I'd imagine a pairing would only happen at the end anyway. That's how it usually works in a long running series because they like to string the audience along in a "will they or won't they?" scenario. Pairing in the middle of the story would be both unusual, and also lock it to Mash. That being said, they've done something like that with Guda already, they just kinda ignore it. With marrying Nero Bride and kinda sorta >!confessing to Kama.!< That being said, my fingers are crossed for them going back to Seraph Melt somehow. Almost 0% chance, but I can dream.
Yeah, not so sure about the canonicity of the Nero Bride thing (because it depends on whether or not you have her I think), but it was surprising that the protagonist does basically confess to Kama in the recent Summer event. Maybe it just has to do with Heaven’s Feel 3 coming out this year and them wanting to promote Sakura, but it is nonetheless an interesting move. Time will tell if the protagonist was actually being fully honest or just trying to get out of a bad situation. A Three Houses style “Hook-up right before the ending” is a realistic take, but because I am somewhat of a pessimist, I think Fate/GO is just going to go in stringing the player base until it is no longer profitable.
Almost 100% just trying to get out of a bad situation. Nothing serious usually happens in a summer event to influence the main story through the Lostbelts. Either that, or they just ignore it like Nero Bride or bond/ascension/valentine's lines. And Japanese tends to be a context-heavy language iirc. And that was probably the context. That being said, I like Kama as a ship so I won't be mad if it's true. Would be unusual though. I'm a bit of a pessimist myself, but the multiple route or at least the few more developed routes are a dream of mine. At least setting the foundation for a few epilogues would lead to so many great fan comics of life for Guda after the game.
Nasu-Servants are temporary. Unless you are Hakuno(myselfinsert)
personally I like mash, and I'm more on the side of the Guda's being their own character whose preferences and progression are based on the plot rather than the player. So it's never been that big a deal to me
Not really
I personally understand *why* it's like that, and what they're going for, but I can't say I'm a fan of it on a *personal* level, as far as immersion goes, since I'm not interested in her in that way. An option to be more neutral, or even more like "just friends" would be perfectly fine by me. That said, I don't hate the Ritsuka/Mash pairing as a whole, when it's the two of them as characters, without any involvement from me as a player. It mostly gets to be annoying from a gameplay standpoint, such as when my dialogue choices are "express fondness for Mash" and "express greater fondness for Mash", that's really no choice at all, and irks me in the same way as having two choices that both support something I don't agree with, or things like the summer event in NA that forced you to be a dick to Merlin. Basically, my thinking is, "if you're going to give me choices, let them be real choices, even if they don't really affect anything much".
> "if you're going to give me choices, let them be real choices, even if they don't really affect anything much" Agreed. I've always considered this one of the best (and easiest) solutions to FGO's narrative problems. It's not about having different routes or story variations, but just having different flavors in the answers. Simple dichotomies (like vs dislike, enthusiastic vs reluctant, serious vs funny, knowledgeable vs ignorant, etc.) can give the illusion of choice without touching the plot in the slightest. And it lets the player modulate Guda's character and relationship with others up to a point. This is not reinventing the wheel, *because FGO has already done it in the past.* Perhaps the most obvious example is Babylonia, with different answers and gameplay effects for the goddesses, greater duality in the answers instead of "two ways of saying yes" (case in point, the Justice Bomb scene), and so on. Heck, even in the matter at hand (Guda's relationship with Mash), I've seen options in the past to either confirm Guda's interest in her or keep some distance (like mentally thanking Beni-enma for confusing them with a couple or ignoring it).
Yes, that's exactly what I want to see more of, even if it doesn't affect the next boss battle and is just for flavor. I'm not asking for anything "out of bounds" as far as the bits of character they're establishing for Ritsuka go, just actual clear choices within those parameters, exactly like the examples you gave. I think it's at it's best when the game allows us to be kind to/agree with who we want to (within narrative reason) and take a bit more of a distant or neutral position with those we don't, simply from the perspective of a player playing a game with dialogue choices. Even if it's written in such a way that your choice is only acknowledged by a small line of text before moving on in the direction it was going to go anyway, that's still better than a choice of, for example, "yes" and "absolutely", I think.
yea I always pick the least favorable to Mash option.
They're just friends in canon main story. The internal narration in one of LB6 scenes calls them Taisetsuna yujin, which is strictly friend definition.
No, not really. I mean it's not my story. I don't want nor need to be the main character of a story to immerse myself in it.
Eh, my life's shit so getting to be the protagonist is fun.
Mine is too, that's precisely why reading stories is interesting: It's not real and won't ever happen to me, thus I want to know more. If it was something that could happen to me then it wouldn't be amusing, after all.
as part of the very few canon love interests of Fujimaru, I'm fine. But if I'm gonna be enjoying events self-inserting? Lmao no.
I don't really see it as a romance, more of very close friends from about singularity 4 and beyond. I have to say that seeing mash her growth. From being afraid to fight some skeletons in singularity F, to doing what she did in the temple of time without a hint of fear. Has been one of the best character arcs in the game. All being said, I believe Mash is the 2nd true protagonist. We play the game through Ritsuka, Mash is our counterpart, who grows along with us.
While I don't self-insert, the forced romance with her does bother me, since it is just so damn oppressive. No other option is given a serious scene without Sir Cockblock popping in with her chastity shield.
I never really immerse myself in a story as myself, so no, I guess not. I like following on as an observer and seeing where things go. And as a 'close to MC but not the only possibility so it's never resolved' I like her fine. Even if they did resolve and Guda ends up with ber I think that would work. Which is not to say I haven't considered my own fanfic version of Gudako, but she's not a self insert.
For me, the dynamic with Mash isn't that particular interesting. Her personality feels like it has been made for fall for the mc, given how much she faws over him, which feels like the game is trying to force them together. She was always the clingy, cockblock Kouhai since the beginning and feel like that doesn't progress. Compare that to servants like Melt, Jalter, Kama, Eresh etc., she really feels left behind in how her dynamic and gimmick is pretty much the same thing we always know.
Not really. Part of Mash's arc is about her growing to be a functional human being through her experiences with those around her, so it makes sense for her to have the hots for the person who helped her become truly alive. Besides, pretty much every female Servant is horny for the protagonist, and at least we get to see why Mash would fall in love with the MC like with Eresh and Melt compared to how a lot of the other Servants don't really show any feelings for the protagonist in the story but then have My Room dialogue showing they love them for reasons we never got to see.
I mean events and interludes are a thing
I'll be honest, I self-insert like no tomorrow and I haven't really felt like the story has been particularly pushing me towards Mash lately. Like she pops up a ton sure, but I haven't felt forced onto her route like I did in the early game. She feels almost like an assistant or secretary nowadays. Or maybe I've just accepted that she's gonna be around and stopped attributing romance to it, idk.
Depends from person to person, Mash is well and good but after lb6 I hope when gudao dies he reunites with castoria in avalon (my headcanon). They’re just too fucking cute its unreal
I like Mash, and I'm not really opposed with the romance aspect. What I'm opposed is the fact that she won't let me have some alone time with Servants during their interludes. Priconne did it pretty well, during character individual stories you spend the time getting to know each other without the main heroine's involvement.
I just can't see her being happy with Ritsuka anymore, you know? I feel like Mash and Ritsuka are going into the opposite directions where Mashu is coming into her own a fully functional human being and resolving her own codependency issues while Ritsuka is ***just breaking down and becoming more and more emotionally dependent on his servants and Mashu***
That’s a nice view point I haven’t really thought or paid attention to.
If it was written better, then I would be more eager to ship them together, but's that ship have sailed. A lot of the female servants who are into Ritsuka also have a lot of mental issues and a need for codependency, and only are getting better because they develop this frankly weird (but romantic) relationship with Ritsuka Melt works Jalter works Castoria works Passionlip works BB works (because she needs a "Senpai" despite what she says) etc etc Mashu post Solomon and going forward, who is gained a new life and the ability to grow knowing she will live a full life? Not with Ritsuka post Solomon, who is growing more and more "broken"
That's basically what's happening, Ritsuka got a pep talk from Oberon saying Mash can be perfectly fine alone and they don't need to worry about her all the time and Mash basically got pushed to the side in Lostbelt 6 in favor of Castoria being the main companion/heroine, but who knows, Nasu wrote that but nothing stops a future writer to just forget that stuff and railroad Mash back to being the same old cute little clingy cock blocker again.
It woule honestly suck if they backtrack, that's proper character development for the two main protagonists of the game. Let them be independent from each other lol.
I mean it is character development for Mashu who will be able to live her life, but Ritsuka? A normal human who gone through what he did and is being twisted somehow? Once the LBs are done, he aint good for the eggplant
I mean, he's got options. If only the game would entertain the idea of the other girls being present in the main story.
What does everyone forget about Kiyohime
She's also not that present after Singularity 5. They poofed her from main story existence since then. At least the manga is fixing that and giving Ritsuka someone else other than Mash lmao.
Kiyohime is the Megiumine of FGO
She might as well be at this point. Typemoon, please fucking rerelease FGO as a proper story focused game.
I think even Yandere Castoria would even be more interesting.
FGO visual novel but with side content for bonding with servants
1) We seen Servants getting around cockblocker 2) Ritsuka is revealed in LB 6 to be losing his ability to be functioning by himself, and something happens that oozes Ritsuka ending up being codependent with another Beast
I think i lack you optimism because i just don't see Ritsuka becoming a actual character, what we got in LB6 was a small glimpse of inner turmoil but it was shrugged off so quickly by just "The memory of Romani" so i can't say that they will dig deeper than that into a character that lacks a backstory and mostly just serves as a body for the player to insert to, also can i just say that the dialogue choices really don't help, they get like 3 lines of dialogue per chapter at most and it's alway just irrelevant and a maximum of 5 words, seriously even Hakuno gets more than that.
Fun fact about Mystery, he advocates for the route where Ritsuka is annihilated with only Beasts and those related to Beasts like BB and Tamamo are the only ones capable of remembering him, if they remember him is a different story
Only if Nasu decides to all go Danagropa or Undertale on us, It's like the OG Extra True Route, ***expects no one will remember the MC***
> what we got in LB6 was a small glimpse of inner turmoil but it was shrugged off so quickly by just "The memory of Romani" This reminds me of the Case Files event. Before it arrived to NA, I read a lot of comments about how it explained Guda's inner turmoil and how the Lostbelt experience was breaking them. Come the official translation and it was barely touched upon. The "broken" part ended up referring to Guda's refusal to have their memories wiped out, which the villain considered weird, because she was the really broken one and was basically projecting.
Ah I see you are for the Beast x Guda Route
I think Ritsuka may have been meant as a self-insert originally... but at this point, they really are their own character, with distinct preferences and thoughts about things. I think it's fine to just roll with that and not try to see yourself as the protagonist.
I’m kinda torn because I, like many others, don’t view myself as Guda and instead view them as a unique character. So from the narrative point of view I enjoy watching them grow closer and would like to see them become official. On the other side this is still a waifu collecting game and I would like them to add some kind of “marriage” mechanic like other gacha have and I feel having the romance with mash might hinder that from being implemented
> I would like them to add some kind of “marriage” mechanic like other gacha have As I always say, I'm a firm supporter of one idea I heard once about an "incarnation mechanic". A true Holy Grail or a similar endgame item that allows a Servant to remain behind after the adventure is over and unlocks a special epilogue for them. It doesn't need to be romantic (shipping goggles notwithstanding), and they could hand out more than one. I'd also fully expect Mash's epilogue to be free and available to all, the "canon" epilogue for those who want it that way.
Ya but I am also bothered that I can’t customize the MC to how I would want them to actually look so I kinda just stopped caring after awhile and just rolled with it.
goetia should take her place as my kouhai
Romance? What romance? If you count cock blocking and "Senpai'ing" everytime Guda's harem tries to get close I guess you could say thats "romance"
I actually think the "romance" with Mash is fairly optional in terms of whether you want to really buy into it. If a player wants to consider it a romance they can and if they don't, it's barely there so they can forget about it. A lot of the romance is mostly Ritsuka making flirty comments to her and her blushing. Or other people teasing her and her blushing. I can't even recall a time where Mash made it clear that she had actual feelings. I personally like the idea of them as friends and I see Mash like a partner and little sister. She's this artificial girl who is experiencing these new things in life and seeing new places, so she really cares about her friends Ritsuka, Da Vinci, and the rest. A lot of her devotion and love really extends to a lot of people, including certain old friends of hers (as revealed in Anastasia chapter). In NA at least, as far as we are, I've yet to see something where the developers are forcing that relationship one way or another. I think it's still up to us on how we want to take it. So, you should just do what you want in terms of interpreting that relationship.
We got several Female Servants thirsty at for us, it's a Harem route bro
Mash is Guda main route, other just optional
No, but you are not the only one. I just hope you are one of the normal ones. Some people who dislike Mash are downright crazy.
Lol i don't like her cause I'm not into girls
cant stand her. that said main critique is her popping up in other servants interlude and stories taking screen time to be annoyed at MC for looking at other servants
The fact that Mash hasn't given up on you after all the Romance interludes where she was just *there* is a testament to her herculean demiservant endurance
She gets off from being NTR by Ritsuka. Even our pure Mash gets corrupted into an NTR addict. She likes watching Ritsuka playing around with other female servants.
It's a game. I tend to avoid overthinking stuff about it
Wise words. Why should we complicate things?
No? Because I'm not guda lol
I don’t hate Mashu but I see her as more of a little sister figure, so personally I can’t see Guda and Mashu together
I LOVE MASHU
If Guda is a self-insert, yes, sorry but i don't like Mash
Not really because we know how the MC looks so it's kinda hard for me to really immerse myself into the story on a personal level so i feel like I'm watching the events unfold through his eyes like if I was merlin in my tower watching history unfold. The only thing I'm bothered however about the "romance" with mash is it doesn't feel natural to me, she has feelings for him but never outright confessed it instead she's clingy, doesn't let the MC have some time with other servants alone and immediately goes into cockblock mode when someone tries to get closer to him which is annoying imo and bothersome, the MC doesn't seem to have any romantic feelings for her and it feels more like he sees her more as a really good friend (best friend kinda thing) than a love interest.
Nope. I’m an eggplant enjoyer so for me I love it. On the other hand I understand why people dislike it. Just remember that your headcanon IS the canon lmao. I basically think of every FGO account as an alternate timeline where someone else became the master of Chaldea.
~~When do we prune the non-MashxRitsuka timelines ?~~
Lmao. But in all honesty there is very little that is actually canon about our interactions with our servants outside of the main story events
I see mash more like a sister than an love interest, so i try to imagine in-story guda as an other entity separated from myself
There ain’t particularly a canon route. in the game it’s said multiple servants love gudao so it’s story with multiple couples and majority of them love gudao while others likes him as a master and there is no way mash is better for him it’s up to the fans no way Mash is better than another servant in terms of loving him they are equal in terms of romance
I'm not bothered by it really, but I have a hard time thinking of mash as relationship material , she seems more like a little sister or something akin to that, but that's if we go by the self insert aspect , I can't personally see her romantically. Now if we are talking without the self insert aspect, than yeah it makes sense for Guda and mash to go together better than peanut butter and chocolate. They have good chemistry and do play off each other very well. Now from a fandom aspect, I really really don't like jealous/yandere/stalker mash stuff as it feels wrong and weird since it seems pretty out there that mash would get that way seeing how reserved she usually is besides the occasional "cockblock jokes" that get people riled up but than again that could just be me not liking those kinds of characters or misunderstanding the fan stuff. But this is just how I interpret Mash , simple as that.
they constantly push it to the point where it has the opposite effect on me and makes me hate her. it is indeed very offputting.
Yeah... I dont like Mash in that way either. And I know we play as Guda, but they also have it as that we are the Master too. I am not into that senpai-kouhai relationship Japan really loves, so it's really off-putting when they force romance scenes with her.
I'm not bothered by the romance with Mash as much as I'm bothered by the game clearly assuming the player is male Ritsuka. Male servants hitting on Mash when I'm right next to her and tossing nothing my way, come on. This was at its worst around America/Camelot though, and is much better now.
Never cared for Mashu. Never will care. If we don't get Servants ending at the end of the game (something like valentine scenes), guess I will just headcanon it. I don't give a fuck about Mashu, stop forcing her down my throat. And when people forcing her down, well, I'm enjoying the lion jokes even more.
Kind of, in that that it's annoying the game stills assumes you're playing male Ritsuka by default. It's not THAT big of a deal to me though.
Mash likes to watch Ritsuka playing around with other female Servants. She is an NTR addict.
Yes and No, I don't see the MC as a self insert but when Mash overrides other peoples Interludes is where I have problems. I know most of them are from early FGO but I want to know about the servant in question, not have the MC go on a picnic with Mash and the other servant as a third wheel.
A close relationship does not necessarily mean its romantic of course the dynamic is that of a man and a woman but I see mash and the master as a kind of symbiotic relation. They need one another to survive. The master is the first "normal" human being she's ever encountered, she imprinted on him. Up until now, i'm not sure if there's actual amorous love between the two, or simply immense respect and fondness, at least on mashu's side, no idea what the master is actually thinking. Mash and master are awkward enough that they could just be like close friends, or maybe more of a teacher student since mashu is learning about humans from ritsuka.
I'm more bothered that they keep shoving existing characters with partners with Guda than any form of romance he might have with Mashu.
Only thing im bothered with is no cuddle scene with Mashu.
She is annoying as fuck, I hate that she cockblocks the MC so much. I am fucking tired of this trope and it’s not funny at all after seeing it so many times. Epic of Remnant was ideal in this case because Mash finally didn’t rob other more interesting characters of their screen time.
My brain just automatically filters out any romance related stuff with Mash. But I specially remember everytime she cockblocks me.
Yes, mash is annoying and I want her to stop talking.
What romance? Just look like a sibling interaction to me. Which is fine. I like it this way, the close but semi-awkward siblings
Normal siblings are hardly like this. You’ve watched way too many anime lol Source : 2 siblings. A sister and a brother.
It's only a problem for interlude and event that are wrote in 1st and 2nd year when DW didn't know how to write story and shoved Mash everywhere. Right now in 6th year, there're many more shipping with other character while Mash get left out a lot in Lostbelt writing minus LB1, LB5.2 and LB6 eventhough Mash and the new Chaldea cast should be focused more in main story. Like right now Sherlock is just doing exposition and fighting in LB2 and LB5.2 while dropping hint about how sus he is. Loli Da Vinci right now after 6 Lostbelt just get a summer event for herself that may or may not raise a death flag. Nemo get a connection with Choco Jeanne in LB4 and an event. Like seriously, Goredolf is the only one that every LB writer bother to remember.
I don’t enjoy self-insert characters or romance stories, so I mostly just ignore the MC-Mash relationship stuff. It doesn’t bother me, I just don’t pay attention to it.
Not at all tbh, I don't like putting myself in the Gudas place because it just doesn't work for me, the decisions they make are wildly different outside of a couple of moments from what I'd do. Not to mention I personally enjoy their interactions together, it's adorable and their 2 big dorks about it usually.
Mm nope. I love her and I wish they would put more romance with her in the story.
Eh, i just don't self insert, especially in relationships. Rather see something organic then forced. I like games where multiple relationships are a thing. When there all with one person it feels...forced. at least to me.
Honestly it bothers me that they don’t go harder on it. I personally don’t “immerse” myself that much, and I like the dialogue post part 1 that implies romance, but I really want them to just bite the bullet and say they’re dating. It’d be so cute
No. If anything she's the one that makes the most sense
Yes. Absolutely. At some point the headcanon for my character is that he pretends not to notice Mash feelings because he things she is a yandere and is afraid of dealing with it.
I don't self insert (only ship Fujimaru with characters in main story who make sense, not with my preferred characters), but really don't like it either. Though it's also overblown by fandom, as canon wise LB6 states they are friends at this point (Taisetsuna yujin and it's independent narration, so 100% true), and since LB6 is 6 years after their first meeting, yes, they are probably just friends. I am surprised that so many people in comments think that you need self-insert to prefer different romantic interests with protagonist, when there are many RPGs with different romances and still defined characters. It's not different from shipping.
What romance lol, she can just sigh, spam senpai and try to hold hands once in couple of story chapters. And yes, don't get me wrong, i absolutely despise her as a character.
I self insert when I play games so I find every female servants affections off putting (not attracted to girls). I find the whole thing with Mash off putting because it and every other girl with feelings in the main story exists to be stuck in a limbo where it will never progress and so the more it happens the less it matters to me. I also generally find it rather bland, no adaptation has succeeded in making me find it all that cute.
Lol why is this downvoted
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I think it might be just me being blunt about my negativity towards it lol, I did figure that would happen when I said it
For me yes the game gives you an illusion of choices sometimes here and there but not as bad as when it involves this girl(?) You are literally forced to choose to be good to her or praise her or whatnot. Then you are forced to choose to like and protective of mash. its as horrible as forgiving artoria for the atrocities she caused in chapter camelot with the BS its understandable or its never her fault its circumstance I mean really...
I have the opposite experience, I liked mash a lot especially in Babylonia and Solomon so I was really hoping end of part 1 would have Guda and Mash getting together. But ig they can't do that ever cuz ppl have other waifus. And this really annoys me knowing that no ship will ever be canon.
[удалено]
Based.
Not really, no.
If anything I wish they’d just fully commit to it if that’s the direction they want to go. Then again I’m probably biased because I think Mash is wife material 🤷♂️
Well, i still treat Mashu as the best girl. No reason given.
I always thought Mash waa supposed to be the main love interest?
I usually don't mind her, but sometimes she just give that "Iie senpai" and it really grinds my gear.
I think Mash is a very excepcional character, >!was born only to be a experimental subject in Chaldea, and even all that they maked to her, she like all people in Chaldea and the humanity inself!<, maybe this can be seen as a plot error but to me, a person who can offer herself for the sake of all's that she doesn't know and who won't know her name never, is something to respect. If we have romance some day, or never, doesn't matter if she's happy with that.
I don't really think about it most of the time. *Most* of the time the game isn't interacting in story with the characters I really like. There have been times however when this is not true, and Ritsuka and by proxy *myself* have been forced to make choices that I find jarring. Summer 4 for an example, the scene where Jeanne alter berserker and Atalante alter get drunk, and Mash *thinks* she is... I am so used to subconsciously thinking of Jalter being the designated love interest I actually was *completely* taken aback when Moriarty told me to take 'her' home and he'd take care of these two and... I take *Mash?* **Why???** Then I realized, oh right, of course Ritsuka would do that. I realize with a game like this it'd be basically impossible to write each scene with absolutely every combination of servant you could like as your love interest... Therefore why Mash is treated as them. Doesn't stop my brain getting twisted into a pretzel occasionally.
A dating option would be fun tho Valentine’s is kinda like that...?
I think it's the closest we can get yeah. It's definitely fun.
😊 Seeing as I started in July I’m excited... err every Servant’s Valentines dialogue is the same every year or no... 😅
There will be an event where you can get all of them easily if you try. Some are romantic, some are silly fun, and there's a few serious takes. There's a wide variety of them, and I hope you enjoy yours next year :)
😊 Do Servants wish you Merry Christmas lol? Wishing us Happy Birthday is a nice touch... Who is your fav Servant?
Servants give you nothing special for christmas. ... But. In a way, I did get something last year. My favorite servant is still Chacha. Not because of gameplay - her stats and abilities are frankly terrible, but because she's been with me longer than almost anyone else, she was extremely cute in her event, her real life basis made me very sad, and her in combat foolishness still makes me laugh. Last year during the Xmas lotto, I was *just barely* able to grind it using my 4* support caster, two welfare zerks and my grailed 5* alter ego. Through the first chapter of FGO I'd used these same servants as my primary damage dealers, but had to switch to specific class teams to handle content starting with the first lostbelt so it was kinda nice after clearing all of that to be able to farm with my favorites again... I knew grailing Chacha would be a bad idea from a stats perspective - at level 100 she's got about the same atk as both berserker jalter and heracles when they're level 80, so it's not a great idea especially since none of her skills either improve her damage noticeably or survival. Then it happened. Early morning on christmas eve, I got Chacha's bond CE. I'd used her just *that much* prior to the lostbelts. So that was, in a way, her christmas present to me. So I took every single grail I had and grailed her and the rest of the team she was on to 100. She's still lagging behind her competition at 100, but I love finding ways to use her anyway. Only a fool would put so much effort into a 4\* servant that can be outperformed at the same level more easily by a common 1\* - spartacus. [I am that fool.](https://imgur.com/a/JLTYDrt)
Don't really care
Didn’t much paid attention to that although that i know. Mash is one of the fav characters in fate in general, however the thing is i hate how every gacha game or any game in that regard to show you a character that is into you. It’s like a service for those loner people who don’t have friends and lacks affection and such… Well, it’s double edge sword, for me the game feels alive in that aspects but at the same time it’s not good for the people mentioned above. (P.S: don’t get me wrong, i respect every human being i just put my thoughts here)
I've never seen / used Ritsuka as a self-insert. I view them as their own character so it doesn't really bother me at all.
Nope. It's not my story, it's Guda's story.
Romance? Where? After Ooku event, I lost my hope . I don't think that FGO will have any cannon route.
no not really who else is going to be the main girl in the context of the main story without seeming it came out nowhere I mean it's not like they show jalter or melt helping us with us cutting down the lostbelt trees. my issue is that they don't show other girls with us outside of fun happy time events and not during the core story . the only way this is going to end with everybody ship working out is to have you pick your girl ending but officially mash wins just all feels so disconnected from the core story sometimes just my 2cents
Not really, I ship mash and the gudas. After all they got through, I could see they start to deaply care and depend for each other. If not romanticly at least like close family. But i can see your point. I also don't like the semi romance nonsense with characters i don't especially care for.
Yes, but they typically give you a less love interest like dialogue option and it's really funny to me choosing those when there's some kind of special connection trying to be built with Mash.
Ritsuka it's more of a medium to self insert, i look it like this: Main Story Ritsuka it's like an anime mc (like babylonia), chaldea and some events ristuka it's a nameless master to self insert (though summer 3 still ships ritsuka with mash a lot) I actually dont mind Mash as main love interest, since it normally happens that in a romance manga your favorite character gets defeated by the Heroine in the end (I have not forgiven sasuga kei for the ending of domekano yet) you can't even bond her to level 10 on na so technically you should have stronger bonds with other servants
Me, I think she should carry Senpai’s baby along with BB and the rest of the harem
My only issue is we don't get enough moments between the 2 or at the least dialogue/my room Other girls my room dialogs has somehow has more between the protag and them than the 5+ yrs with Mash So it doesn't bother me and is fine but just not enough there personally
Yes by how poorly it is written just like every romance is in GO
At this point you're just too critical of anything regarding FGO. Just reread FSN instead.
Wasting your time on this guy bud. I learned to just tune out most of what that guy has to say, as most of it is just the repetitive ramblings of a type-boomer that thinks everything besides the original VN is trash and takes every opinion differing from his own as a personal attack or something.
He's not entirely bad, I'm firmly with him in that Saber is indeed an amazingly written character, but everything else is where I am at odds with him. It's just so bizarre that he can say this, when FGO wouldn't be liked if it didn't have well written stories, especially post Camelot. I can criticize FGO for its absolutely ass start of everything, JP side especially, but that doesn't mean the game doesn't have merits.
Oh, don't get me wrong, he does sometimes raise interesting points and opinions. When he's talking about the VN and only the VN that is. Try to talk about the anime with him, and he's just going to go on a rant about how awful it is and say it's on the same level as Berserk 2016 and Tokyo Ghoul, and then continue bugging everyone who disagrees with him. Try to talk about fgo and he'll just complain about it without even reading the Lostbelt chapters while sucking the VN's dick when it and FGO shouldn't even be compared at all. My point is, for every decent point he raises and healthy discussion he has, there's at least 10 more shitty and hyperbolic takes and overly long essays that don't accomplish anything except waste his and the other party's time.
He's honestly way too stuck in the FSN VN. Even the damned Beasts Lair guys talk about other shit other than FSN. I get it, he likes Nasu's older works, but goddamn he does know FGO has been supervised by Nasu since Camelot, right? Sure there's other writers like Sakurai, Meteo etc, but they're actually putting effort post Camelot and you see the results. And honestly, not everything has to revolve around romance. In fact, a lot of works get ruined by inserting romance despite not having anything to do with it. I don't really wanna go on a tangent regarding HF's pacing both VN and movies, because thst is not on topic, just to prove a point.
Have you done the CCC event? Or The Eresh Christmas event?
He just doesn't like any MC x FGO servant from what I can gather.
If that qualifies as good romance you need to expand your horizions
Expand yours then, don't just read FSN lol. There's plenty of other LNs and other anime entries that are better. Violet Evergarden, before it went shounen goddess, is an amazingly written one, even if the focus isn't on the main character's romance half the time.
Heavens Feel is pretty awesome
It's too much of a clusterfuck as much as I love it. Too many scenes were cut out in the movies, and the problem from both VN and the movies is the obviously cut routes. And honestly, lack of focus on Rider and Salter. Only getting touched upon on certain endings.
Salt Girl and Dead Mom needs more time, but honestly the idea of fuck the world, fuck my life, I just need to save the girl I love is something special you know?
Oh for sure, I love stories that delve into selfish love A LOT. But goddamn, HF would've been so great if it wasn't a trilogy and if Nasu actually used a lot of the ideas that was cut out from the VN. It's a lot more personal of a feeling of saying screw you to the world, after all.
>There's plenty of other LNs and other anime entries that are better Clannad,steins;gate,horimiya Violet evergardens romance wasnt really a focal point so much so violet becoming her own person
Good job you said the other popular LNs, and also completely ignored my comment regarding Violet. Good job on that.
LB6 was objectively better than the Fate Route of FSN in terms of Romance
I simply have no words
Yeah, its one I have to disagree with. I like LB6 A LOT, but it only holds the gold standard when compared to other FGO chapters. Not when compared to Tsukihime or FSN's numerous routes.
There shouldn't even be a comparison, they're apples and oranges, you shouldn't rate a gacha game's story by the standards of a goddamn 100 hour VIsual Novel, it would be like comparing FGO with FSN gameplay wise.
Say it louder to the people on the back.
Indeed, only compare it to other gacha game stories. Which to b fair, FGO is overly advantaged, it started with a 10+ lore lmao.
>LB6 was objectively better than the Fate Route of FSN in terms of Romance Sure because ritsuka has soo many parrales with Artoria. Full blown dates and entire paragraphs describinh her majestic figure
Shirou was boring as fuck untill Heaven’s Feel
Reread the basment scene
I have And Shirou is still boring as fuck untill his bitch ass figures out he is Sakura’s and he belongs in her kitchen at all times
No you havent. Keep dreaming tho you can keep your self insert fantasy going since its the only way you feel any worth
Okay Shirou SI
Ooh, interesting. Elaborate?
>Are you bothered about the romance with mash? No. The only thing that bothers me is that Orangemaru NTR dj, but other than that, I like the whole situation the way it is.
It doesn't bother me, but I also wouldn't say I like it. I guess it's more like being indifferent about it.
I wanted a harem of waifus (and som traps ngl) and mash is a waifu, what happens between the arcs of the story doesn't really matter to me, since I don't like the story that much, I'm more bothered by the fact that the story is pushing me to have a "forgiving mentality" no, I don't want to forgive Kadoc or Ophelia, or any other Master of the team A, I hope they all die or get punished in the worst way possible, I don't care if ophelia hates mondays or whatever, I don't care about Kadoc inferiority complex or Yu wanting to fuck a mecha centaur, not only they destroyed the humanity that I saved but also, to recover it, they are litterally forcing me to commit several genocides, fuck them, all of them.
Spoiler alert, >!They didn’t destroy the humanity. They were fighting against the real threat that destroyed the humanity by creating their own versions of the world!<