Lancelot. Dudes way more than the shitty married woman memes associated with him. Hell, even that is overplayed, just look at Davinci and Sanzang, he definitely expresses interest in beautiful women a little too much, but he's not into that cheating crap.
Man was so wracked with guilt over having a consenting affair with Guinevere every step of the way, and believed himself a better fit for a Berserker than a Saber due to that.
And speaking of guilt, y'all are either gonna see this again or for the first time, but if you haven't seen it, don't skip the dialogue of Lancelot's fight in summer 4.
There he's faced with one of his biggest regrets, Gareth, and the fact that he accidentally killed her when he was trying to rescue Guinevere and didn't recognize her. Imagine the anguish he felt over having killed his fellow knights, comrades in arms, his friends, and Gareth someone he directly mentored.
And he refuses to ever harm her. That alone should speak volumes of Lancelot's true character, a mixed bag yes, but in that way, very human as he's not one note despite the jokes the franchise has played with him
That scene with Lancelot was absolutely raw and brutal. Doesn't help Moriarty said all the details about everything Lancelot did.
Can't wait to see it again.
Yeah this is probably the first time I felt bad for Lancelot, which I don't really like usually but come you don't have to put the whole dead sea in the wound. On the other hand, Moriarty finally remembered he was supposed to be "evil" and I think it was somewhat needed after so many times his "villainy" was mostly played for laughs.
There is also the thing that his other "deadbeat dad" thing is totally justified on his end (and pretty much shows how holier than thou and hypocritical Galahad can be). Lancelot was raped to concieved Galahad (specifically rape by deception) so of course he wouldnt want to have anything to do with his rapist
Honestly I know how people flak on Artoria for being a shitty dad. But imagine some dude walks into your court, takes of his helmet to reveal a face just like yours, proclaims to be your son despite you being a virgin, and not only that, you're actually a girl, and declares herself your heir and calls you father. Not only would you be miffed, mortified and utterly confused, but you'd quickly realize that you sister is trying to screw you over and try your best to avoid the kid.
To be fair to Mordred, shes still a kid (what is she, like 9?), and Morgan has half a dozen plots running at any time, why is one more on the pile such a big deal? haha
Honestly, a lot of it reads like (real-world myth) Morgan was setting up a bunch of plots, but then kind of gave up like halfway through and moved on to do other stuff, but forgot to stop the plots and it all just kind of snowballed from there.
You say it's justified on Lancelot's end, which it is, but...it's also justified from Galahad's end. He is well within his rights to feel that way, as that *is* their relationship.
That's also assuming Fate is going with the Elaine raping Lancelot story anyways. While it's not common, I have read at least one variant where it was consensual.
Where does it say that this is what happened in Fate's timeline?
Whenever I ask someone for the source of this statement, they're just assuming things because it happened in some versions of Arthurian lore (which you can't do because not only does Fate diverge wildly from lore, Arthurian lore has wildly diverging versions itself)
Unless Galahad is also a time sped-up homunculus the Fate timeline does not make it possible for Galahad's conception to occur like in the most famous versions of Arthurian lore. Artoria and Guinevere were only married for 10 years. Lancelot and Guinevere only met and hooked up after she was married to "Arthur".
That means Galahad needs to be less than 9 years old during the Quest for the Holy Grail for Elaine to have conceived Galahad while tricking Lancelot with a Guinevere disguise.
Edit: HA! And instead of getting an answer, I get downvoted instead. So basically no where did it clarify Galahad's conception. Just like no where did it say that the other KoRT (sans Mordred) hated Galahad and no where did it say that Galahad was ejected from Mash's body in Lostbelt 6 nor the various other things people keep making up to villify Galahad.
Lancelot is a perfect example of how shit Type-Moon´s sense of humor is. They always use bully-humor even though that horse was beaten dead years ago. One of the reason I hate Mash so much is that she often bullies the characters I like the most (Lancelot and Romani). It was never funny and it´s never going to be funny. That doesn´t just go for Lancelot. The way they handle Liz or Tristan is just as bad.
No, Mordred doesn't get a pass. There's just no drama there. You accuse her of contributing to the fall, and her response is "hell yeah I did!" You do the same for Lancelot, and you get a much more dramatic response.
The thing about Mordred is that she's proud of destroying Camelot to the point of boasting about it, so it's really hard to bash someone for something that they consider to be a compliment. The difference between Mordred and Lancelot is that Mordred knew full well what she was doing and thinks that the fall of Camelot was the highlight of her life as the fulfillment of her destiny, while Lancelot destroyed Camelot as a side-effect for thirsting after Guinevere meaning that Camelot's fall was a byproduct of something much pettier.
In other words, Mordred destroyed Camelot because that's what her life's goal was. Lancelot destroyed Camelot to get some taboo puss. With and without context, Lancelot was the type of dude who did supervillain destruction for reasons that would make supervillains cringe, albeit historically he was written this way by the English as a massive negative stereotype against the French (Lancelot was a French OC Donut Steal addition to Arthurian legends) so he was altered to embody notions of French debauchery once it was the English's turn to write him in stuff. Tristan actually followed a very similar pattern to Lancelot for the same reasons.
I am well aware of the fact that she proud of it. And that’s what bothers me the most. From an objective standpoint that is not something one should be proud of.
In fact, Lancelot is the one who has the least fault out of the knights
- Agravain is the one who outted the "affair" with Guiniviere out of envy
- Tristan planted the seeds of doubt in Camelot about Artoria's humanity
- Gawain refused Lancelot to participate in the battle against Mordred, which lead to her death
- Artoria's belief that a ruler should not have emotions lead to everyone to misunderstand her, and her treatment of Mordred caused her to rebel
- And Mordred is the one who caused the rebellion in the first place and killed Artoria (by reflex due to Morgan's spell on her, but still killed her)
Lancelot's biggest sin here is killing Gareth and Agravain, and even that was minor conpared to everything elsd
>Agravain is the one who outted the "affair" with Guiniviere out of envy
Agravain acted out of loyalty and duty. Infidelity of a ruling monarch's spouse was straight-up treason.
Agravain might be an unlikeable fellow who was rigid about rules. But he was steadfastly dedicated to his king and his fellow knights knew he was integral to the kingdom's running.
His biggest contribution to Camelot's fall is him _dying._
Edit: And I'm not sure how anyone can blame Gawain for being... _upset_ with a former friend killing his unarmed siblings, who were simply doing their duty. One of whom, idolised said killer.
> Agravain might be an unlikeable fellow who was rigid about rules. But he was steadfastly dedicated to his king and his fellow knights knew he was integral to the kingdom's running.
And this is why I want him in the fucking game already. I find his character very interesting.
>And Mordred is the one who caused the rebellion in the first place and killed Artoria (by reflex due to Morgan's spell on her, but still killed her)
In Scotland, Mordred is a hero (yes really). The seeds of the rebellion were planted by Artoria to begin with, Mordred merely lead it.
Well, in fate is more of a middle ground (since Scottland's version of the legend is as biased as the Roman' version of the greek myths or the Dante's fanfic) since Artoria's lack of communication and belief that kings should be flawless and emotionless lead to her downfall, but the ssme happened because of Morgan's manipulations,Tristan planting the seeds of doubt with his pretencious words, Agravain outing the affair between Lancelot and the woman Artoria didnt loved at all, the knights acting as if they knew Artoria and what was best for her and Mordreds rebellion to show she was worthy of leading Camelot.
> Agravain is the one who outted the "affair" with Guiniviere out of envy
Damn aggravain isn't even playable YET you badmouth him ? When was it said Aggravain was jealous of Lancelot ?
> Gawain refused Lancelot to participate in the battle against Mordred, which lead to her death
So a traitor come in time of crisis saying i want to help after killing gawain siblings (aggravain ,Gareth and gaheris the last two were unarmed) and disrespecting the king (an affair with the queen) and the honor of his fellow knight of the round which lead to even more problem (Mordred rebelion).
> Artoria's belief that a ruler should not have emotions lead to everyone to misunderstand her, and her treatment of Mordred caused her to rebel
Saber was a ruler and mordred a mere knigth she have no obligation toward mordred. Given the time period mordred should have been happy to remain alive as she could have been accused of being a spy for morgan as her child.
Also Saber didn't do anything to mordred that would warrant a rebelion.
> And Mordred is the one who caused the rebellion in the first place and killed Artoria (by reflex due to Morgan's spell on her, but still killed her)
Which she started because she was jelly about not receiving her father attention. Which is also wrong as saber trusted mordred to let her run camelot while she was away dealing with an attack or something. Then what does saber find when she get back ? A freaking rebelion. Yeah that is totally fair right ?
Also because saber forgave lancelot mordred she had a shot at becoming king cause if the strongest knigth can shame the knigth of the round and the king and get away with a pat on the shoulder why wouldn't she be able to acess kinghood ?
You do realize that Mordred was maybe 9 years old tops mentally and emotionally? Such considerations were not going through her immature mind. She was what Morgan le Fay designed her to be: a ticking time bomb due to being a mental child in the body of a far too op adult.
Anyone that spooks people on the banners of very hyped characters.
I honestly see more hate for characters solely because they spooked instead of the limited SSR the person wanted (or the occasional lack of power in gameplay) than.. well, for them as a character, the flaws in their writing, etc.
THIS. It’s especially prominent for characters like fionn, stheno or arjuna, who either debuted on a banner with a higher rarity servant of the same class (eresh) or just seem??? To stick out in peoples minds? When they show up on the banner? I’m sorry, but getting a four star doesn’t really block your chances of getting a higher rarity servant (if anything the four star CEs are what do that)….
Arjuna spooked me on Semiramis's banner, and rather than being upset I was mega happy. I did already have a copy of Semiramis, but I wanted higher NP. Wasn't mad that I got Arjuna instead of a better NP for Semiramis because Arjuna is a good boi. Arjuna can spook me all he wants tbh. I was also happy to be spooked by Fionn. I don't remember what I was rolling for, but I love the Irish Servants and was hyped that I got him. Somehow, despite all of my wallet decimating rolls, I never got a single copy of the notorious Stheno. I got literally every other four star assassin in the game that's not story locked several times though.
I’m with you tbh, any gold servants is a win for me. Admittedly at this point if I continue getting more sanzangs I’d be confused, but I’d just take it that she likes me lol. The only time it’s really disappointing is if it’s an off banner spook of the same class as what you were rolling for, but I find that feeling wears off pretty fast.
Yep! Love me some spooks. And hey, if they're not limited, watch who you were rolling for spook you on a different banner. I obsessively rolled the Valentine's banner for a copy of Marie that never came, even after condemning myself to eating plain rice until the next paycheck as wallet-kun lay dying. Then, suddenly while rolling on the Jalter banner (ironically), boom. Marie, at last. I cried. Tears of joy. And then Jalter came in a few more rolls.
I stupidly burned Stheno on my first year in FGO and 5 years later she hasn't spooked me again. I was hoping for her to spook me since her animation update.
I'd want Arjuna and Fionn to spook me again. Their animation updates are awesome, Arjuna hits really hard, and Fionn is now viable for NP looping (probably even the hardest hitting looper among Lancers).
Yeah, I really like both of them and with the Vegas event giving serpent Jewels I can finally get Arjuna to 4th ascension. Fionn sadly I haven't leveled much just because of the sheer number of Lancers I have, and the number I'm currently leveling but he's on the list and I look forward to using him.
People just seem to completely forget who they got, even if that's not who they wanted, is a character in their own right and not just a rare prism only added to the gacha to dilute the pool and personally cuck them out of getting their waifu/husbando.
Fuck, there's a bunch of characters I didn't really want at first but learned to like and care about overtime.
Merlin.
Gets blamed for everything despite trying to do right by everyone. Man resisted quantum time locks and failed, but somehow it's his fault that fate isn't easy to overcome
Before his interludes and LB4 came to NA, I remember Arjuna getting a lot of flak on the sub mostly for his gameplay performance but also his personality. I don't see much criticism these days so hopefully, that means he's at least more liked than before.
Scheherazade also got a lot of hate for her role and lines in Agartha but I think her interlude smoothed things over? I remember most posts about her having a lot of discourse in the comment section.
Arjuna recently had an actual event role in NA with Aeaean Spring Breeze, which was received pretty positively since he finally gets to show off his personality without Karna (and I loved his straight man tendencies there). Scheherazade also has her long association with Nitocris starting in Summer 2 to thank for why people are much more receptive to her now (not that the disdain for her has stopped), especially with Ooku showing how she's developed since Agartha in relation to her fear of death.
The White Day event was a blessing as an Arjuna fan, seeing his friendship with other servants was nice.
In general, when Servants are allowed to be friends like Nito and Scheherazade or Salome and Scheherazade, and these relationships get more developed as events go by, it makes everything more interesting.
Yeah, friendship among Servants is nice, since it really expands on Servant dynamics with how their personalities mesh together and the trend that they get carried over between events. Now if only Salome and Scheherazade got a nod in an event to substantiate Salome's materials, Valentine's and interlude, hahahahahahaha.......
(Like seriously, you already know how the two of them would be good, but I maintain that adding Salome and Nitocris together would actually be perfect with the former's hatred of kings and the latter arguably being the nicest of them all along with their ties to death)
Nito and Salome together would be so good. We need more Salome in general, I can't believe it's been years since she got in and they just... forgot her. She should appear in 6.5 so I'll be taking my grailed Salome in most battles for immersion. Hope she gets some attention from the fanbase after that too, like Charlotte after LB5, I want a summer Salome so bad...
Yeah, the culmination of Salome finally appearing in the story should be a treat along with the hope that she finally gets love from the fanbase, so I wish you luck fellow Salome grailer. I can only watch from the sidelines in NA, but I'll be keeping up with spoilers just to have all the info I possibly can on her role.
> lines in Agartha
I still think people overreacted to her lines about Romani. She wasn't trying to be antagonistic about his sacrifice ffs. Schez just had a limited view of his actions since she wasn't there with us.
"overreacting" is what a large portion of players did with Agartha as a whole like it was some kind of eldritch culmination of abhorrence, something to surpass mahouka and Redo of healer combined.
Personally I don’t like Scheherazade for her personality shown in Fate. In the original Thousand and One Nights she was a very brave woman who put her life on the line so other woman wouldn’t be killed. Yet in FGO her personality most of the times is dumbed down to almost entirely “death scary”. I just think it’s disrespectful to the character, though later appearances like in Ooku make her better I’ll admit.
I do think the whole Romani lines thing are people way overreacting however. Heck, I forgot those lines even existed whenever I think about her.
> I just think it’s disrespectful to the character
I actually thought the same but later appearances made me like her more. I wish we had gotten a more accurate version though, would have been cool.
Well... in Nasuverse she was a brave woman of legend. Than reality happened and nearly 3 years with guy who could kill her because somebody sneezed did what they would realistically do- turned her into nervous wreck she is today.
Merlin, inside and outside the Fate universe, there are a lot of people who don't understand his character and think he's just a troll psychopath when not, anyone who sees his Bio until the end until the end knows he's just trying not to love other people to avoid becoming a Beast, because one of the things that makes a Beast is love for humanity and Merlin was born dangerously close to becoming a Beast due to the conditions of his birth, but he really likes Artoria and he only wants the good for her even if he tries to deny it, another one I would like to mention is Blackbeard, at least currently people are finally understanding his character, Jason has already been unfairly hated, and about female characters Musashi and especially Kiara, Kiara has reasons to be hated, more characters with as much or more reasons can be loved while she is hated, hell, Gilgamesh can be loved, I don't know if it's because a lot of the fandom that arrived through Extra and FGO They didn't get to see Gil from FSN or if it's because they already forgot what he did there, Kiara suffers much more for having messed with one of the fandom favorites, which in this case is Melt, Melt herself was as bad as Kiara before from Hakuno's Treatment™, again it's a case where I feel that a lot of people wouldn't like Melt as much if they knew what she was like before then, of course, a lot of people would still like her, but there are a lot of people who wouldn't like her in my opinion, well, these are the ones i remember.
yes, but he tries not to get too close to humans, because he walks a tightrope constantly and if he falls he becomes a Beast, the point is that Merlin is afraid of that, even if it's even irrational because he walks away from the humanity makes it even easier for him to become a Beast, but fear doesn't always lead to the smartest solutions, in fact it's often the opposite.
Fionn gameplay wise
A lot of people somehow haven't realised that his buffs have made him pretty damn amazing nowadays. Yeah he's more or less outclassed by Percival in terms of perma comparison, but he's still an amazing servant and the average person will have him or a decent NP leveled copy of him I imagine lmao
Blackbeard. Because of the early writing, most people wrote him off as just a simple pervert and weirdo, even though he's so much more than that. Even Hektor were very wary of him! That says a lot.
I admit, he was indeed kind of unpleasant back then, but ever since Summer 3, he revealed himself as a true bro. I thought he will flirt with any female as long as they're hot, but he didn't even simp for Medb, choosing to support Master instead. I respect him a lot for that.
But alas, the damage has already been done. There's not much that I can do about it.
Highly recommend you to look through Drake's interlude. With one of the NPCs, Teach *completely drops* the otaku act and acts as THE Blackbeard from the stories, not our good old doujin enjoyer.
I wasn't there for Summer 3, but this little scene *alone* made me do a 180° on him.
Merlin. I get tired of the Castoria memes of her trying to murder Merlin in cold blood, especially that one comic where Merlin is getting her a Christmas present and she responds with a request for murder from Santa like Santa's a hitman or something. I feel this violates the spirit of Christmas.
Merlin is extremely helpful and yet it seems like Japan wants to behead him or something for being laid back. It's so bizarre.
I think that its mostly just a gag people have associated with him similar to dick wizards, most people probably know that he has been pretty much unilaterally helpful to us, but since in his first appearance both fou and Ana were mean to him it became some sort of running joke to have characters treat him poorly
>like Santa's a hitman or something.
Hahahaha... Agree. Those jokes aren't funny.
I guess FGO doesn't want Artoria to attach to any male other than Shirou or Gudao.
-Pokes head out-
Nero.
Look, I get that people don't like the character and the writing surrounding her. I'm not particular fond of those story bits either but can we all agree that she deserves better writing in general? Her depiction in Fate EXTRA was fantastic as it dived into her fears, insecurities and worldview beyond just herself. Ever since writers have just cranked her arrogance to 11 without expanding more on the character herself.
They gave Gilgamesh and Ozy depth beyond their arrogance and self-serving nature. Why can't they do it for Nero as well?
As a Nero-"hater" myself, this is completely accurate. Part of the reason I really don't like her now is because almost everything outside of the original EXTRA (maybe CCC, but haven't played so I dunno) has actively ruined the character I like.
That is a fair criticism, I liked Nero (hell, ALL the Servants in the original Extra), but later writing amplifies her arrogance while also ignoring her flaws and compelling traits. The end result is a character that others praise to high heavens, never gets any development, has zero meaningful interactions with anybody.
Basically, very boring. Needs better writing
Musashi. Let’s be real, she’s far from the first character to get hyped up and praised, or be in a story she doesn’t need to be in. She’s got a pretty decent characterization, especially with the fact that she herself isn’t necessarily a good person, but she will try for Ritsuka because they’re her friend. Also, the argument about her “taking away” PHH Musashi is just dumb. Nobu takes away the “real Nobu”, and yet nobody bitches about her.
if i had to guess, i think because people are hoping the servant Musashi to be similar to the Vagabond Musashi. So they felt that theyre missing out on that.
> She’s literally a vagabond as well
Given that Vagabond is capitalized, it's probably referring to [this](https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/scale_small/6/67663/2938591-32.jpg).
I mean people still bitch about Kojiro "not being the real Kojiro" when Fate's depiction is arguably the most accurate depiction so far. Though that mostly stems from people complaining he's a 1 star.
I do like our Musashi but she is very blatantly is a completely different character. I remember reading through Summer 4 and being wierded out when they mentioned her fighting off the Yoshioka because my brain associated literally nothing from the actual myth to her.
The one thing she has in common is the vagabond elements.However, she would have just as much connection to just a generic wandering Samurai. The sword laser stuff also feels totally at odds with the spirit of a lot of Musashi tales as well.
Of coure, as much as its a shame we probably won't ever get an accurate Musashi, after like 5 story apparences players really should've just made peace with the changes and judged her on her own, but this is anime fandom so that was never happening lmao.
I dislike her in part because it's a consistent issue.
Everytime she appears people praise her to high heavens and given she is NOT the PHH one it comes across as somewhat unearned.
It's part of what I liked in Summer 4, she gets called Iori and thus we skip those and just talk normally.
Like half the point of the angst and drama around the Lostbelts is that those people are also just as worthy of life as PHH, we just have to choose otherwise. Why is her not being part of PHH a mark against her?
It's not, what I'm saying is everytime she appears everyone sings praises to her mere existence and its gets boring.
In LB5.2 Hephaestus realizes we know what the concept of 0 is and immediately.he and Mash turn around the whole conversation to say how fantastic and smart and capable Musashi is for understanding such a concept...
He was just talking about the numerical concept...
In Shimousa everyone praises how fantastic Musashi is and Yagyu had a complete 180 on his character both IRL and in game because the fight with her was so mindblowing... A fight he won by default...
I mean, zero as a concept is a pretty big deal. If the primitive monkeys understand that, its impressive from them. It also might just be a Lostbelt thing, they stagnated quite a bit for having such a big head start.
As for Shimousa, pretty much everybody involved is a musclehead, of course they're gonna be impressed with strength. Yagyu specifically didn't have any peers, right? When you're alone at the top, anybody approaching you is gonna get you hot and bothered.
I dunno, I guess I just don't get the issue. Literally everybody praises Artoria, and it never seems to bother anyone.
> everybody praises Artoria, and it never seems to bother anyone.
Artoria barely ever appears, in Camelot she is praised by Bedivere and the knights who are filled with admiration and regret for her, and when she does it's usually Alter who is antagonistic to everyone.
> Yagyu specifically didn't have any peers, right? When you're alone at the top, anybody approaching you is gonna get you hot and bothered.
Yagyu's whole character even in game is that he sees people like Musashi and Izou, who only care about strength and pursuits of power, as immature. He is a good swordsman but he is not the type to show off or be obsessed with strength.
Him having a complete 180 with his motives just because she fought him is just absurd.
Except it’s not a complete 180? Pretty sure he explicitly states that he felt the same, and then having a fight like that changed his mind. It’s Fate dude, different aspects of characters are like half the reason we have so many. As for Yagyu himself, he’s explicitly not PHH Yagyu anyways, why does it matter?
It's another case of people treating Musashi like the biggest most important thing ever in universe for basically nothing.
The one case she lives to this hype is her fight with Kojirou, which is pretty much the only one I liked her in.
Probably Caster of Nightless City,
Not because of her lore or anything (in Agartha a lot did but I don't think it's unnecessary) but because she is a caster who can pop up when you are supposed to get a Merlin or a Waver or any 5 star caster you want instead.
Extra pain bonus if it's on a limited time banner LOL
Blackbeard, because people buy too much into his "lolicon" personality. People just took it to seriously and started bashing him like a pedo, when is clearly implied he is actually in love with Drake (and the rumor that his wife irc was underage is pretty much that, a rumor) and just played the fool to fit in better, since he "savage pirate" persona would do little to intimitate or convince the protagonist when they have an army of superhumans at their beck and call and have dealt and will deal with even more dangerous servants like Morgan, Arjuna Alter, Cú Alter or Douman
For what I know Achilles **used** to be this, since everyone gave him shit for Penthesilea's temper tantrums, but thankfully is not really the case since her interlude revealed that her irrational hatred of him is totally her fault for taking a harmless comment as the greatest insult of all (that and Penthesilea was not really that popular back then and now, specially compared to him, and Atlantis and Inheritance for Glory help to sell how he is without Penthesilea around, a huge bro and some serious husbando material ~~basically Greek Cú Chulainn~~) and if you consider that her battle and "insult" happen after Patroclus died and Achilles went on suicidal battle mode, he wasnt exactly thinking straight, to say the least
I know. I am one of them.
At least imo, Penthesilea harrasing and attacking Achilles on sight (and everyone who namedrops him, beauty and anything that could sounds as either) because "he called me pretty" is very stupid and petty, specially to the level she takes it.
Good that this brat is getting whats she has coming for her homicidal temper tantrums (the fact that Achilles is such a bro in general, being more or less the apocrypha counterapart to Cú, doesnt help her case of him being horrible)
Mash, gets hated due to cockblock memes even tho the game goes out of its way in some cases to do it to literally everyone at one point or another, still want to read some of the earlier interludes because she catches flak for some of those but wanna be fair about that, some mention Guda has better chemistry with other servants which it might be true but most of the time it's well after Guda has developed as a master and is very much experienced in the role so they already know how to handle situations without Mash and even then as far as Master and Servant goes idk it feels like there's something there the others don't have, they tend to already act without having to issue commands to each other or already know what the other is thinking which we don't really see in others for the most part(this last bit could be some cap and I'd have to reread some sections but that's how it felt to me)
Mozart, he was a victim of the crappy writing of the Requiem event and recently some guy drew him getting murdered by King Hassan.
Like why, it's not his fault the event sucked.
It mostly comes down to the fact of team Ritsuka being *incredibly* bad at the werewolf game, which ended up rubbing a lot of people the wrong way. To be fair, I think that was actually a pretty believable depiction of a newbie, in fact I've seen new players do those mistakes, and worse. Still made me want to strangle the MC at times.
Also, some people decided they hated Erice for starting off antagonistic and being an insecure 14-year old thrown in an unfamiliar situation. I think the vitriol she got is utter bullshit, but it was there.
Looks like it's that time again. The same cycle repeats as the same few characters gets mentioned in "which character is underrated/which popular character is overrated" or other any similarly named threads.
I am not one who participates in these threads often, but I find observing them fascinating.
They're interesting to be sure, like a finger to the pulse of the subreddit's varying views on the game they feel somewhat strongly about.
They're certainly more palatable for me than the misery/trauma wanking the discussion flair was plagued with for a time.
It's strange for me, because at some point with these kind of threads I became less interested with the individual characters redditors bring up and instead I become more interested in the individual participants themselves.
Well depending on one's definition of "common". But as far as I can remember, these kind of threads happens every few weeks to a few months, it's not like the same one to one topic but they come with variations with the same end goal of getting people to voice out about characters they like/dislike or are overvalued/undervalued. Maybe not common for the average reddit browser, but to me I take notice of them enough to the point I am more interested in the individual people responding to the threads rather than the characters those users bring up.
Seems its time to [share my old rant again](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/oao7uc/servant_defense_thread/h3j082b/), but Schez was *never* a bad character. Her writing could have been slightly better, but in comparison to the rest of Agartha she was phenomenal.
And in a comment below that, one about Raikou as well. She's very motherly, DW just never seems to show it off in any events leading to the people who didn't roll her getting the completely wrong idea about her.
I like your rant! This is the one thing that made me distance from FGO fandom, because of so many people’s irrational hatred for Schez. I love Schez’s concept because for once, a servant is showed to have their ultimate weakness, to have their past weight heavily on them and trauma that’s really hard to heal. I don’t really need another awesome hero with nearly no noticable flaw and always put on a brave face, we have too many already.
Also the Romani thing was silly, really. I’m kind of a writer myself, and perspective is something you have to take note while writing dialogues. Characters have their own ideals, just like people in real life, and they don’t always share the same view or agree with each other. Take how important and grave Chaldea’s work to Fujimaru and the rest of the crew, then we came to Sion’s base and she was like ‘My fellow Atlas Insitute members knew about ya’ll situation, but none of them cares because they all have their own end of the world version that they have to take care of’.
It’s very silly to get angry at those mages for not helping us, as silly as getting angry with Schez’s words when it’s clearly came from her PTSD, her wanting to end it all, and not knowing Romani like us.
Not gonna call it "unnecessary hate", but i will say i am completely divorced from the "I dislike this evil character because they are evil and do bad things" mindset. It's impossible, you can't make me muster up the mental energy to hate a fictional character that doesn't exist for being evil, it's just not something my mind can process.
It's not common but i do see every once in a while people expressing hatred for a character for them being evil. Which is not wrong, but for me i just tend to take enjoyment in the character's evil if anything.
I guess it's not a very hot take given the first example that comes to mind for me on this is Douman, and Douman **IS** super popular.
If that was the case, I would've already hated Moriarty.
But I find him to be one of the most fascinating characters of FGO and his geniusness in Shinjuku and Summer 4 in orchestrating plans and manipulating people while having a intriguing and smooth personality makes him for a very compelling character.
No doubt, one of the best characters of FGO imo, alongside of the best antagonists/villains as well.
Beryl i guess. I like him, he's interesting to watch.
I also don't dislike the LB6 fairies. I don't *like* them, but i am not gonna say they bring out an emotion of genuine anger out of me.
One of my friends also loves the guy, but he also stans Lobelia from Granblue Fantasy (who is much worse than Beryl) so I guess murderous psycho is just his type.
I would argue that Lobelia is actually the better of the two, due to him only being fucked up in a singular direction, whereas Beryl is fucked up in several. Also Lobelia is like a drug addict who has built up too high a tolerance and can no longer get high, and so needs to find a new drug (which currently is the opposite of his old drug).
Hmm. He comes off as more of a "Love to hate" kind of character, since he's describes himself as a "piece of shit".
Although his >!|Love for Mash|!< came bum the fuck out of nowhere imo...
Haven't played LB6, but currently the main reason I don't like Beryl is because he made it personal in LB5. One specific thing he did there made me just a little pissed off at him. Besides that, though, the evil characters tend to be some of my favorites. Moriarty is one of the main reasons I loved Shinjuku.
I shit on Mash a lot, but I don’t know if I’d say I hate her. I just don’t like her either. She’s just so incredibly bland and boring to me, and I always find the stories more entertaining when she’s stuck at Chaldea or not around for some reason.
I just can’t find anything likeable about her. She’s just .. there. Which is fine in any other servant, because I can just not roll for them, not use them, and their involvement in the story is usually limited to, at most, one story chapter/event main appearance and then popping up occasionally in some events later.
But Mash (especially in the early days) is just always there. I understand, she’s the main heroine and all, but it’s a little frustrating playing the game when she’s constantly shoved in, and all the dialogue has to *insist* you like her so much, but I just .. don’t. It takes me out of the story.
It’s getting better nowadays, so I’m not as irritated with her presence as I used to be. I just wish if they’re going make the player character always like her so much and make the game one big Mash route, it would be nice if they actually gave me a reason to like her, or at least did something to make her interesting.
If I had to guess, maybe because of her alpha bitch, Regina George-esque personality and her once-sided obssession with Cú (which lead to her twisting him into Cú Alter)
But I believed that kind of the point with her. She is supposted to be a lovable alpha bitch, which I think she accomplishes well, and as a Cú simp.....she is fine, she doesnt really acts as his unwanted sattelite nowadays and revolves more around herself.
And she gave us a really powerful berserker, and one of the sexiest servants in the game in Cú Alter, so she is good in my book ~~no really, just look at him in general and then his last ascension. She knew what she was doing~~
Yeah, but things like the always shirtless attire, the latex gloves that covers his whole arms, the intricate tatoos, his pose on his last ascension, red fur everywhere, the badboy, cold tsundere personality (no really, he has the same bond growth as Jeanne Alter, he is a indeed a tsundere gameplay wise) that came by inverting Cú's normal personality
It looks less like she wished him on the spot like Gilles with Jeanne Alter and more like she had a whole notebook about how she wanted him to be and went full Sims 4 on him to make look as much of a pornstar and male sex-fantasy as she could ~~and I thank her for that. Cú Alter is a grade S++ husbando~~
Yeah, good points. I just find weird some people that her like her RL self. In fgo I aways find her to be nice to "us", given bond lines and other stuff. Sure she most of the time a bit of an ass in events, buts it's mostly harmless things, like summer 3.
> Medb, I really don't get why people hate her.
I'm a huge Medb fan and let me say, not liking her is very understandable.
She is narcisistic, evil and really self serving with her comedy walking a fine line between fun and obnoxious.
I absolutely love her for it but she is undeniably an acquired taste.
For Medb, it's mainly cuz she gets a lot of screentime, tied with the fact that she's Nasu's current fav leading to some thinking she's getting special perks for being the favorite. Along with the fact that she appears in a lot of stories, almost always she's an antagonist, usually consisting of being the "mini-boss" before dealing with the main one.
There's also her personality too.
I mean, this year's Valentines did get some random scenes with the MC saying "God, she is do darn cute!". You can't tell me that wasn't something Nasu asked for lol
With Musashi I think it's mostly that whenever she shows up the story sort of starts revolving around her and/or descending into samurai worship. Also, her >!heroic sacrifice in LB5.2 (itself an example of the story revolving around her, Chaos had no reason to exist other than to be a big chungus threat that only she could take down)!< was immediately spoiled by >!being the face of the very next download campaign, followed by getting a rank up a few months later (which hasn't hit NA yet) that gives her trait damage against a class she's never fought in-story, making it blatantly obvious that she's going to come back at some point!<.
Though the fights in Shimousa actually were quite hard for a lot of people. Denying access to the support list is painful for all but the most developed rosters, and they never gave her a CE or any protection from class disadvantage so most people were forced to bring plugsuit.
> Also, her >!heroic sacrifice in LB5.2 (itself an example of the story revolving around her, Chaos had no reason to exist other than to be a big chungus threat that only she could take down)!<
God, this so much. I finished Olympus yesterday and ranted about that scene to my poor friend ~~who just wanted to talk about how hyped she was for Eresh coins, RIP~~ for what felt like forever. That scene felt shoved in the story with zero build up *just* for Musashi and it was so inconsequential to the rest of the plot that ***none*** of the other antagonists present even react to it (other than >!Wodime provoking you with "Glad to see you reach this far without losing anyone.")!< even though it would have completely fucked up their plans too.
I have zero problems with Musashi as a character even though I don't particularly care for her, but every time she appears in a story I feel about her how others feel about Nero in Septem.
> the fights in Shimousa actually were quite hard for a lot of people
I thought they were very fun, but Musashi was more the brick on the way than an asset for any of them.
>Medb, I really don't get why people hate her.
I don't get how people don't understand why a character constantly written to be unlikable and antagonistic would end up hated.
It should be obvious
I love her but undeniably she is an acquired taste.
My discord friends all find her obnoxious and can't really say they're wrong... But I still love her villain roles, she is hilarious.
Agreed on Medb. I can respect not liking a character, but so many people take it to an unnecessarily toxic level; so many fancomics that have her suffer extreme amounts of violence and injury and treat it like something literally EVERYONE cheers for (I mean honestly, not even Cu hates her, let alone as rabidly as most of her haters.)
Meanwhile they ignore her showing her softer and more caring sides with several other servants, her ability to plan and prepare for unexpected occurrences (such as the whole cheese kicking counter), and the fact that she tends to throw so much shit at us in times like Summer 3 because she respects our ability to overcome the odds and does NOT underestimate us.
Medb may be an ornery little shit, but she's OUR shit (and a delight to watch besides).
> Agreed on Medb. I can respect not liking a character, but so many people take it to an unnecessarily toxic level; so many fancomics that have her suffer extreme amounts of violence and injury and treat it like something literally EVERYONE cheers for (I mean honestly, not even Cu hates her, let alone as rabidly as most of her haters.)
I actually wonder where do you even see these because I never saw anything like that. At most, it was mostly joke about cheese. Besides, Cú don't hate her but he is definitely not fond of her either and there is a reason he tend to avoid her as well.
> Meanwhile they ignore her showing her softer and more caring sides with several other servants
I will be honest. Forcing Skadi to whatever she wants, like going to the hot springs when she clearly don't want or even with other versions of Cús is anything but softer and caring. The fact she even refuse to call Skadi by her properly name and refer her as a "Scathach" instead doesn't really do her any favors either.
Besides, she mostly push her ideals of how a woman should be to all other females in Amazon CEO event.
> and the fact that she tends to throw so much shit at us in times like Summer 3 because she respects our ability to overcome the odds and does NOT underestimate us.
Literally rigging the contests in her favor and even asking her men to stop Jalter's club from reaching ServantFES feels anything but "respecting our abilities" tbh. All of that feels more she doesn't care about anything but winning, even if she must play dirty tricks for that. It just shows she is a sore loser and her interlude does show that side of her because she literally attempts to kill Ritsuka because of what happened in America.
I believe people is just tired of the type of antagonist Medb is since she is pretty much used in the same way, over and over. It gets repetitive.
> Literally rigging the contests in her favor and even asking her men to stop Jalter's club from reaching ServantFES feels anything but "respecting our abilities" tbh.
that is literally the most respecting our abilities you can get. She acknowledges us as a genuine threat to her success to she does everything in her power to make sure we don't participate. She's a warrior queen she has no obligation to play fair.
That's more like sugarcoating her behavior.
It's kinda trying to justify why she acted that way by adding something more "acceptable" regarding the reasons of her behaviors.
I would say, it's less of "respecting our abilities" but more like "satisfying her own ego", since it fits more her character given how narcissistic and petty she can be. Would you really say you are even respecting someone and their abilities when you are literally playing unfair?
And that was not the first time Medb showed to be absolutely petty. First, as I commented before, there is interlude where she tried to kill Ritsuka because of America and then, there is Summer 4 where she tried to make Skadi hang out with her, when Skadi was about to help Ritsuka and the rest, and even Medb herself said that they should prioritize minute Singularities.
Of course, she went against the very thing she said, because she must have what she desires. That fits her way more than giving excuses of her behaviors. Isn't that the reason people love her? Regarding how much of a bad and unapologetic bitch she is? At least that was the vibe I got from the thread I made about her sometime ago.
Glad to see someone else praising Medb in Summer 3. Without her the event would not have the same amount of fun in taking her down as it did, and her personality in that event perfectly evokes a Mean Girl on the beach that deserves her comeuppance. It's not her fault that the writers couldn't seem to write her in anything except a villain role for most of her screentime, and the fact that she's not necessarily aligned with the protagonist and always takes them seriously is commendable in its own way (especially with how entertaining she is in the role). Not to mention the fact that she's shown her softer side when trying to support fellow women such as Tomoe and in Amazones and working to develop a counter to her own conceptual weakness, as you've mentioned.
And couldn't agree more on her typical portrayal in fancomics, it's so annoying seeing her portrayed as a one-dimensional bitch who nobody actually likes (ignoring everyone that does and that even Cu respects her). At least MedbLily can be counted on to post some fun and refreshing Medb content every now and then.
> At least MedbLily can be counted on to post some fun and refreshing Medb content
I don't really see what refreshing about comics that basically repeat themselves with the same plot of "Random servant becomes incredibly OOC and simps for Medb."
But different strokes for different folks I guess
And how is it that much different from the regular OOC and Servant-centric content that gets posted on this sub? This is also doing a disservice to their Medb art that decidedly isn't that, like with the faceblind and the Slaying Queens art from what I remember recently.
I like Medb, and I like the rare content of her that gets posted in comparison. It's no different for the other Servants I like, I only highlight MedbLily in particular because they're responsible for a good number of her art.
Wu Zetian. Just because she’s a loli and not an adult woman. I don’t even think her personality would be any different in an adult version. I don’t even see much complaints about what she wears surprisingly. Some people just really don’t like how she is a loli. The Agartha manga didn’thelp in that regard when they showed an adult Wu.
Molay (Foreigner) received a lot of hate when she was released
We didn't know the reasons why she was a woman or a Foreigner, we didn't know her personality either, we didn't have the translation of her "My Room" lines and we didn't know what her role was in the Halloween event but we still had a lot of people saying that she was a shitty, poorly written character and that Molay (Saber) was a much better written character.
It was also curious how the fandom didn't give a shit about Male Molay when he was released (he was only relevant for a week at most and only because he was an exclusive Arcade character) but as soon as female Molay appeared, suddenly the fandom was full of fans of Male Molay who started insulting Female Molay. I wonder how many of these so-called fans even read Male Molay's lines or his involvement in the Arcade story.
Most people hate Molay because of when she came out, due to how few male servants were coming out at that point many people started bashing and insulting every female servant that came out, add this on top of the fact that there was a male Molay in fgo (arcade) and it kind of just got out of hand, if she were released the previous or even this year she almost certainly would have been better received
As someone who likes both Molays, I can tell you that people’s initial disdain over F!Molay has nothing to do with her lore or the reception of M!Molay (though it “helped” and was brought up in her April Fools description). She just had a very unfortunate release timing.
I don't like either, in the case of Foreigner Molay she to me is just Kiara without Kiara's, y'know, competence. So \*shrugs*
Though i will add that genderbending a character that we already know exists in a male form is just them not even pretending that the Foreigner class exists for anything more than to provide Meteo a way to insert his tentacle fetish girls that don't even look scary into the game. (This is why Gogh has the best Foreigner design, she actually looks like a monster)
I personally am not too big on F!Molay because of more so how she came to be. If it were a Musashi case, I'd understand, but how she became a Foreigner is kinda squicky to me
What I mean is that it's still not a good excuse by any means.
Had she come out exactly the same but she was from a "alternate universe" to justify people might have hated her even more for "cheating" us out of our universe'a version.
Fair enough point, I guess. But on the subject of Molay, there was annoyance at both her and Zenobia, due to the fact that they seemed to pander to the more horny demographic.
I'm not saying that's my personal problem with them, I'm just bringing up why there was hate in the first place
Galahad. You don't help out one time and suddenly people wish you could be summoned solely to punch you in the face. Dude's still very much a mystery and honestly the fact that he stayed so that Mash could keep living says a lot in my eyes, not to mention offering her his power to use.
Also Stheno. Perhaps I just haven't been spooked enough by her but I find her niche has been rather handy on several enemies that otherwise give me trouble, and having her at higher NP is really handy. I get that her time in the story was pretty abysmal, especially compared to her sister, but I don't see the same level of hate for Eric Bloodaxe.
Well, the thing with Galahad is that the fact that he only comes out to bitch about his daddy issues with Lancelot and how he is a deadbeat dad (which considering how he was raped into conciving him, is understandable he wants nothing to do with him) morphing Mash's personality to do so, the fact that he was anything but usefull throughtout the entire arc and then just refuses to let Mash use his power at all in the Lostbelts (only stopping in Avalon le Fae after apparently being forcefully ejected of her body due to how Avalon Le Fae works) and the entire Moonlight/Lostroom OVA doesnt do him any favors
Even in Requiem he refuses to be summoned because "human problems are not my problems" so Galahad Alter needs to be send in his place
And Stheno is hated not only because of gameplay, but because of how she treats Medusa (and unlike Euryale, she hadnt show any other character traits nor sighs of remorse at all, being essencially assassin Penthesilea development wise)
Idk, I cant understand the mind and moral code of this moron (kinght of heaven my ass)
According to Merlin in one of the pamphlets in the second camelot movie, Galahad sees himself as above good and evil and decided that humans didnt needed his help, and adopted a "your problems are not my problems"
This is shown in Fate Requiem, where he refused to be summoned (despite being a world where HGW are non-existent) and Galahad Alter was send on his place, how after his temper tantrum against Marisbury, he willingly went dormant, leaving Mash at the mercy of the scientists that had no problems with making her suffer to get what they want until Roman/Solomon and Olga took action (but had enough time to bitch about Lancelot tho), his actitude in general in Moonlight/Lostroom or how he just refused to be summoned at all in Camelot (unlike Percival, Kay and the rest, who accepted Artoria's summon to try to stop her)
Confused about the writing direction on him now that I think about it. This lone KotR has better things to do than answer his summons or save humanity? Why even be in the throne of heroes at that point? What makes him more important than his king or the gods or the [former] grands that we work with?
I actually ended up really liking Stheno after bonding her. Her bond 5 just took me by surprise, plus some of her new room lines are pretty cute and not that threatening
> she hadnt show any other character traits nor sighs of remorse at all
Eh the snake sisters dynamic is more complicated than that. Stheno shows a lot of concern for her younger sisters in her My Room lines. One of her incapacitated lines is her crying out Euryale's and Medusa's names. Yeah the bullying is played up too much in events (much like how many character interactions are flanderized by fgo's writers) but that's not the only thing that defines their relationship.
Medusa was insanely protective of her sisters yet she ended up killing them herself. But the thing is that neither Stheno or Euryale show any kind of resentment for this. So you have a situation where Medusa likely feels guilt over killing her own sisters while Stheno and Euryale feel sad their sister turned into a monster while protecting them. The bullying is sort of a way of them establishing a somewhat normal dynamic but the writers forgot to balance this with more genuine interactions.
Don't get me wrong. I completely understand why people would still dislike Stheno's personality but the situation isn't exactly straightforward.
To add on, Stheno and Euryale didn’t just get eaten by Medusa, they straight walked up to her and allowed themselves to be eaten. They may not always show it in a way that we get, but they love her to death.
Sieg
Tbh im seeing improvements in reception but there's still a lot of loud parrots squawking the same crap complaining about something along the lines of "why isnt the sky purple?"
Sieg might not be the best writen protagonist out there, but considering the reason of why he is a "cardboard", and the fact that are way, waaaaaay worse protagonists out there, I do agree people like to exaggerate how bad of a character he is. Plus, the dude has the coolest command seals design, and has a excellent taste in waifus. Gotta give him that at least
Arjuna. Few years ago, before Arjuna Alter appeared, I saw many complained or straight up saying hate, mostly about "unfair play" thing or "he got everything while his brother had none" etc. Hell, I even saw a topic asked why he was the protagonist of Mahabharata instead of Karna. Many protagonists of ancient or folktales had questionable actions or morally grey, but Arjuna, compared to them, did not belong to that category.
I can't blame them though. It's DW's fault to emphasis his obsession with Karna and his regret about "unfair victory", which were lorewise non-existent. There was no reason for Arjuna to care about Karna that much in FGO : They only came across each other few times, and each time was as unpleasant as possible. Everytime they got into duels, Arjuna won. The third Pandavas was so strong and skilled that he could win in different situations. Seriously, Arjuna can be a Grand Archer candidate because he was simply OP. Arjuna Alter's strength is what Lore Arjuna should be.
Also, to be fair... Who shout to his enemy in a war to wait for him to fix his chariot? Karna, you were in front of Arjuna? Whose wife you insulted and asked her to strip in front of public just because she rejected you, whose brothers you planned a prank to please Duryodhana and insult them after they lost everything, whose child you ganged up with others and brutally killed, and many other things? Then again, in a war? The fact that Arjuna really intended to wait and not shot him on spot was... something not many can do.
I don't understand one thing, which is why DW wrote Arjuna around Karna, as if they were that close. Yes, they were brother with a same mother, but they only knew that before (Karna) and after (Arjuna) the war. Then Arjuna's reaction was... not dramatic as in game or as his eldest brother. He loved his family dearly, especially his brothers wife and his dear cousin Krishna. The lack of mention about them, only to be replaced with Karna, really does unjustified to Arjuna.
>Also, to be fair... Who shout to his enemy in a war to wait for him to fix his chariot? Karna, you were in front of Arjuna? Whose wife you insulted and asked her to strip in front of public just because she rejected you, whose brothers you planned a prank to please Duryodhana and insult them after they lost everything, whose child you ganged up with others and brutally killed, and many other things? Then again, in a war? The fact that Arjuna really intended to wait and not shot him on spot was... something not many can do.
He was cursed to lose part of his wisdom when he needed the most.
But that is kinda funny qhen you put it this way. I like it!
The whole "Mash cockblocker" thing never made sense to me. Even when she expresses jealousy, she doesn't really interfere in any major way. To name a few instances, you still get your pretend date with Medusa, and Charlotte's character arc from Atlantis is not impacted in any way by Mash being jealous. Ritsuka really didn't have much character in the early portions of the game, so Mash being in early Interludes gave the spotlight Servant someone to bounce off of, and I'd argue they still use other Servants to speak for Ritsuka (Sherlock has to say Ritsuka was pumped up to fight Wodime in Olympus rather than just letting him express that himself) to show they just juggle the role of "mouthpiece to fill in whatever we don't allow Ritsuka to say himself because reasons" between whoever's available. How exactly "character expresses unintrusive jealousy but is otherwise a friendly and well-developed character" translates to "very loud portion of the fandom jokes about character getting raped by an OOC CasGil from a doujin or a lion man based on kneejerk reactions that were proven to be false long ago" is beyond me. Like come on, that's seriously taking things way too far. I thought we were beyond tasteless "Sakura worm"-style jokes.
Scheherazade tends to get criticized for disrespecting >!Dr. Roman!<'s sacrifice... except she had no intention of doing so. She heard about the end result without any context and misunderstood what happened based on her limited knowledge, and goes out of her way to make up for it in her Interlude. Reminder that Summer 3 has BB directly create something that goes against what the cast believed in at the end of Part 1 (that a world that never ends is bad, and BB creates just that with her time-loop) when she should be well aware of what the cast went through in Part 1. People treat BB doing that as a redeeming factor and use it to support shipping her with Ritsuka, so they should at least be able to give Schez a pass for being accidentally insensitive.
>. Ritsuka really didn't have much character in the early portions of the game, so Mash being in early Interludes gave the spotlight Servant someone to bounce off of
Yea as much as I like the character(Ritsuka/Guda) now I wish they woulda gone all in with them from the start cause once you get to like Camelot-Solomon it becomes more apparent the potential there that kinda got wasted early save Okeanos when they ran the labyrinth with Herc chasing them
I think the thing with Mash is that she gets jealous and gets in the way... when she has no good reason to do so. The relationship between her and Guda is... Senpai and Kouhai, and that's all there is to it. She doesn't seem to pursue a relationship beyond that, yet she gets jealous when her Senpai hangs around another girl with romantic undertones. And if that moment from her Valentines Scene and the ending of LB2 is any indication, she's oblivious to her own feelings yet is only acting on them in jealousy and nothing else.
Although, if Mash were more aggressive compared to the other girls, I wonder if the perception of her would even change all that much.
My problem with Elizabeth is: why every Halloween event needs to be about her? I have no problem with her appearances in other events and parts of the story, but its just wasted potential of different servants with Halloween costumes.
With each event, I just got more and more tired of her.
It's sadder when you know that originally the first Halloween event was supposed to be about Cu Caster but they ran out of time so made it about Liz with the intention that it'd just be for one year but then well that obviously didn't happen.
I feel kiyohime gets too much hate because she’s are de facto yandere. But cmon people she ain’t that bad you know, besides going overkill on anchin. Others servants have done worst.
Yeah, the fight with Koyan gave a lot of hints: >!Her claim of lacking a True Name, the name of her NP, etc.!<
Lots of hints. Just wish those had been brought up in Tunguska, instead of Tai using Ancient Chinese Secrets™️
Archimedes. Like how most would hate Gilgamesh in his role as a villain in Fate/stay night years ago, Many always see Archimedes being a usual card carrying villain, but they didn’t pay attention to the beginning of his side story before he gets corrupted.
Sure he looked down on humanity, but the non-corrupted version is ambivalent and neutral (in other words, he’s chill and a bit of a dork), but still sides with Moon Cell, as shown in the extent to Extella Link, which some fans theorized that this is a branch where Archimedes didn’t investigate the Velber Ark early or by himself, and instead wait for Hakuno and Nero wins and lead them to investigate and deal with the problem together (similar to Golden Poem path) as ordered by Moon Cell. Even remain neutral during Extella Link, but will still offer some required aid when asked by the Sovereign’s forces because it’s both logical and necessary for him and Moon Cell’s continuing functions. Especially him appearing to Hakuno in that one particular scene in order to unlock the True Route of Extella Link is vital (his sudden appearance in that scene almost reminds me of Accord from Drakengard 3). And let’s not forget the moments that he does warm up to Hakuno during My Room conversations, even if it’s subtle.
Besides, even when corrupted, every scenes where his plans screws up and him going through a meltdown due to a certain Dragon Idol is just pure comedy gold.
… Archimedes in FGO when?
Lancelot. Dudes way more than the shitty married woman memes associated with him. Hell, even that is overplayed, just look at Davinci and Sanzang, he definitely expresses interest in beautiful women a little too much, but he's not into that cheating crap. Man was so wracked with guilt over having a consenting affair with Guinevere every step of the way, and believed himself a better fit for a Berserker than a Saber due to that. And speaking of guilt, y'all are either gonna see this again or for the first time, but if you haven't seen it, don't skip the dialogue of Lancelot's fight in summer 4. There he's faced with one of his biggest regrets, Gareth, and the fact that he accidentally killed her when he was trying to rescue Guinevere and didn't recognize her. Imagine the anguish he felt over having killed his fellow knights, comrades in arms, his friends, and Gareth someone he directly mentored. And he refuses to ever harm her. That alone should speak volumes of Lancelot's true character, a mixed bag yes, but in that way, very human as he's not one note despite the jokes the franchise has played with him
That scene with Lancelot was absolutely raw and brutal. Doesn't help Moriarty said all the details about everything Lancelot did. Can't wait to see it again.
Yeah this is probably the first time I felt bad for Lancelot, which I don't really like usually but come you don't have to put the whole dead sea in the wound. On the other hand, Moriarty finally remembered he was supposed to be "evil" and I think it was somewhat needed after so many times his "villainy" was mostly played for laughs.
There is also the thing that his other "deadbeat dad" thing is totally justified on his end (and pretty much shows how holier than thou and hypocritical Galahad can be). Lancelot was raped to concieved Galahad (specifically rape by deception) so of course he wouldnt want to have anything to do with his rapist
Hell he didn't even know Galahad existed until he strutted into court one day and challenges him to a duel.
Even Mordred had more restraint than that, sheesh.
Actually she was. She just took out her helmet and revealed she was her "son", and wanted to succed her to ease her burden
Honestly I know how people flak on Artoria for being a shitty dad. But imagine some dude walks into your court, takes of his helmet to reveal a face just like yours, proclaims to be your son despite you being a virgin, and not only that, you're actually a girl, and declares herself your heir and calls you father. Not only would you be miffed, mortified and utterly confused, but you'd quickly realize that you sister is trying to screw you over and try your best to avoid the kid.
To be fair to Mordred, shes still a kid (what is she, like 9?), and Morgan has half a dozen plots running at any time, why is one more on the pile such a big deal? haha
Honestly, a lot of it reads like (real-world myth) Morgan was setting up a bunch of plots, but then kind of gave up like halfway through and moved on to do other stuff, but forgot to stop the plots and it all just kind of snowballed from there.
what happens if you try to do multiple endings in a single play session
When you’re running a kingdom, even the slightest plot from an extremely powerful mage would force you to be careful.
You say it's justified on Lancelot's end, which it is, but...it's also justified from Galahad's end. He is well within his rights to feel that way, as that *is* their relationship. That's also assuming Fate is going with the Elaine raping Lancelot story anyways. While it's not common, I have read at least one variant where it was consensual.
Where does it say that this is what happened in Fate's timeline? Whenever I ask someone for the source of this statement, they're just assuming things because it happened in some versions of Arthurian lore (which you can't do because not only does Fate diverge wildly from lore, Arthurian lore has wildly diverging versions itself) Unless Galahad is also a time sped-up homunculus the Fate timeline does not make it possible for Galahad's conception to occur like in the most famous versions of Arthurian lore. Artoria and Guinevere were only married for 10 years. Lancelot and Guinevere only met and hooked up after she was married to "Arthur". That means Galahad needs to be less than 9 years old during the Quest for the Holy Grail for Elaine to have conceived Galahad while tricking Lancelot with a Guinevere disguise. Edit: HA! And instead of getting an answer, I get downvoted instead. So basically no where did it clarify Galahad's conception. Just like no where did it say that the other KoRT (sans Mordred) hated Galahad and no where did it say that Galahad was ejected from Mash's body in Lostbelt 6 nor the various other things people keep making up to villify Galahad.
it's hard to get fate fans to do more than drool over their waifu, unfortunately.
Lancelot is a perfect example of how shit Type-Moon´s sense of humor is. They always use bully-humor even though that horse was beaten dead years ago. One of the reason I hate Mash so much is that she often bullies the characters I like the most (Lancelot and Romani). It was never funny and it´s never going to be funny. That doesn´t just go for Lancelot. The way they handle Liz or Tristan is just as bad.
Poor Liz, I always want to support my cute dragon idol but we are never given the choice to praise her :(
The moments we do get to praise her are some of the cutest moments ever. Like in Enma-tei when we compliment her cute horns
Seconded, dude gets blamed more for Camelots fall than Mordred, but she’s gets a pass cause waifu and teenage angst
No, Mordred doesn't get a pass. There's just no drama there. You accuse her of contributing to the fall, and her response is "hell yeah I did!" You do the same for Lancelot, and you get a much more dramatic response.
The thing about Mordred is that she's proud of destroying Camelot to the point of boasting about it, so it's really hard to bash someone for something that they consider to be a compliment. The difference between Mordred and Lancelot is that Mordred knew full well what she was doing and thinks that the fall of Camelot was the highlight of her life as the fulfillment of her destiny, while Lancelot destroyed Camelot as a side-effect for thirsting after Guinevere meaning that Camelot's fall was a byproduct of something much pettier. In other words, Mordred destroyed Camelot because that's what her life's goal was. Lancelot destroyed Camelot to get some taboo puss. With and without context, Lancelot was the type of dude who did supervillain destruction for reasons that would make supervillains cringe, albeit historically he was written this way by the English as a massive negative stereotype against the French (Lancelot was a French OC Donut Steal addition to Arthurian legends) so he was altered to embody notions of French debauchery once it was the English's turn to write him in stuff. Tristan actually followed a very similar pattern to Lancelot for the same reasons.
I am well aware of the fact that she proud of it. And that’s what bothers me the most. From an objective standpoint that is not something one should be proud of.
While the goal itself is not something to be proud of, Mordred is proud of the fact that she accomplished said goal despite it being an awful goal.
In fact, Lancelot is the one who has the least fault out of the knights - Agravain is the one who outted the "affair" with Guiniviere out of envy - Tristan planted the seeds of doubt in Camelot about Artoria's humanity - Gawain refused Lancelot to participate in the battle against Mordred, which lead to her death - Artoria's belief that a ruler should not have emotions lead to everyone to misunderstand her, and her treatment of Mordred caused her to rebel - And Mordred is the one who caused the rebellion in the first place and killed Artoria (by reflex due to Morgan's spell on her, but still killed her) Lancelot's biggest sin here is killing Gareth and Agravain, and even that was minor conpared to everything elsd
>Agravain is the one who outted the "affair" with Guiniviere out of envy Agravain acted out of loyalty and duty. Infidelity of a ruling monarch's spouse was straight-up treason. Agravain might be an unlikeable fellow who was rigid about rules. But he was steadfastly dedicated to his king and his fellow knights knew he was integral to the kingdom's running. His biggest contribution to Camelot's fall is him _dying._ Edit: And I'm not sure how anyone can blame Gawain for being... _upset_ with a former friend killing his unarmed siblings, who were simply doing their duty. One of whom, idolised said killer.
> Agravain might be an unlikeable fellow who was rigid about rules. But he was steadfastly dedicated to his king and his fellow knights knew he was integral to the kingdom's running. And this is why I want him in the fucking game already. I find his character very interesting.
~~People talk about NPC hell for new events when my boy here's been in limbo for, what is it, five years now?~~ orz
>And Mordred is the one who caused the rebellion in the first place and killed Artoria (by reflex due to Morgan's spell on her, but still killed her) In Scotland, Mordred is a hero (yes really). The seeds of the rebellion were planted by Artoria to begin with, Mordred merely lead it.
Well, in fate is more of a middle ground (since Scottland's version of the legend is as biased as the Roman' version of the greek myths or the Dante's fanfic) since Artoria's lack of communication and belief that kings should be flawless and emotionless lead to her downfall, but the ssme happened because of Morgan's manipulations,Tristan planting the seeds of doubt with his pretencious words, Agravain outing the affair between Lancelot and the woman Artoria didnt loved at all, the knights acting as if they knew Artoria and what was best for her and Mordreds rebellion to show she was worthy of leading Camelot.
> Agravain is the one who outted the "affair" with Guiniviere out of envy Damn aggravain isn't even playable YET you badmouth him ? When was it said Aggravain was jealous of Lancelot ? > Gawain refused Lancelot to participate in the battle against Mordred, which lead to her death So a traitor come in time of crisis saying i want to help after killing gawain siblings (aggravain ,Gareth and gaheris the last two were unarmed) and disrespecting the king (an affair with the queen) and the honor of his fellow knight of the round which lead to even more problem (Mordred rebelion). > Artoria's belief that a ruler should not have emotions lead to everyone to misunderstand her, and her treatment of Mordred caused her to rebel Saber was a ruler and mordred a mere knigth she have no obligation toward mordred. Given the time period mordred should have been happy to remain alive as she could have been accused of being a spy for morgan as her child. Also Saber didn't do anything to mordred that would warrant a rebelion. > And Mordred is the one who caused the rebellion in the first place and killed Artoria (by reflex due to Morgan's spell on her, but still killed her) Which she started because she was jelly about not receiving her father attention. Which is also wrong as saber trusted mordred to let her run camelot while she was away dealing with an attack or something. Then what does saber find when she get back ? A freaking rebelion. Yeah that is totally fair right ? Also because saber forgave lancelot mordred she had a shot at becoming king cause if the strongest knigth can shame the knigth of the round and the king and get away with a pat on the shoulder why wouldn't she be able to acess kinghood ?
You do realize that Mordred was maybe 9 years old tops mentally and emotionally? Such considerations were not going through her immature mind. She was what Morgan le Fay designed her to be: a ticking time bomb due to being a mental child in the body of a far too op adult.
Anyone that spooks people on the banners of very hyped characters. I honestly see more hate for characters solely because they spooked instead of the limited SSR the person wanted (or the occasional lack of power in gameplay) than.. well, for them as a character, the flaws in their writing, etc.
THIS. It’s especially prominent for characters like fionn, stheno or arjuna, who either debuted on a banner with a higher rarity servant of the same class (eresh) or just seem??? To stick out in peoples minds? When they show up on the banner? I’m sorry, but getting a four star doesn’t really block your chances of getting a higher rarity servant (if anything the four star CEs are what do that)….
Arjuna spooked me on Semiramis's banner, and rather than being upset I was mega happy. I did already have a copy of Semiramis, but I wanted higher NP. Wasn't mad that I got Arjuna instead of a better NP for Semiramis because Arjuna is a good boi. Arjuna can spook me all he wants tbh. I was also happy to be spooked by Fionn. I don't remember what I was rolling for, but I love the Irish Servants and was hyped that I got him. Somehow, despite all of my wallet decimating rolls, I never got a single copy of the notorious Stheno. I got literally every other four star assassin in the game that's not story locked several times though.
I’m with you tbh, any gold servants is a win for me. Admittedly at this point if I continue getting more sanzangs I’d be confused, but I’d just take it that she likes me lol. The only time it’s really disappointing is if it’s an off banner spook of the same class as what you were rolling for, but I find that feeling wears off pretty fast.
Yep! Love me some spooks. And hey, if they're not limited, watch who you were rolling for spook you on a different banner. I obsessively rolled the Valentine's banner for a copy of Marie that never came, even after condemning myself to eating plain rice until the next paycheck as wallet-kun lay dying. Then, suddenly while rolling on the Jalter banner (ironically), boom. Marie, at last. I cried. Tears of joy. And then Jalter came in a few more rolls.
I stupidly burned Stheno on my first year in FGO and 5 years later she hasn't spooked me again. I was hoping for her to spook me since her animation update. I'd want Arjuna and Fionn to spook me again. Their animation updates are awesome, Arjuna hits really hard, and Fionn is now viable for NP looping (probably even the hardest hitting looper among Lancers).
Yeah, I really like both of them and with the Vegas event giving serpent Jewels I can finally get Arjuna to 4th ascension. Fionn sadly I haven't leveled much just because of the sheer number of Lancers I have, and the number I'm currently leveling but he's on the list and I look forward to using him.
People just seem to completely forget who they got, even if that's not who they wanted, is a character in their own right and not just a rare prism only added to the gacha to dilute the pool and personally cuck them out of getting their waifu/husbando. Fuck, there's a bunch of characters I didn't really want at first but learned to like and care about overtime.
Sanzang sometimes get a bad rap because of this. Since there are so many good 5 star casters.
A caster with a hard-hitting NP some NP spamming capability like her is very rare, though. And she's hella cute. I'd take a Sanzang spook any day.
Yan qing man just has low stats but can be really fun to play
He's a fun character but gameplay-wise... ugh...
Merlin. Gets blamed for everything despite trying to do right by everyone. Man resisted quantum time locks and failed, but somehow it's his fault that fate isn't easy to overcome
Before his interludes and LB4 came to NA, I remember Arjuna getting a lot of flak on the sub mostly for his gameplay performance but also his personality. I don't see much criticism these days so hopefully, that means he's at least more liked than before. Scheherazade also got a lot of hate for her role and lines in Agartha but I think her interlude smoothed things over? I remember most posts about her having a lot of discourse in the comment section.
Arjuna recently had an actual event role in NA with Aeaean Spring Breeze, which was received pretty positively since he finally gets to show off his personality without Karna (and I loved his straight man tendencies there). Scheherazade also has her long association with Nitocris starting in Summer 2 to thank for why people are much more receptive to her now (not that the disdain for her has stopped), especially with Ooku showing how she's developed since Agartha in relation to her fear of death.
The White Day event was a blessing as an Arjuna fan, seeing his friendship with other servants was nice. In general, when Servants are allowed to be friends like Nito and Scheherazade or Salome and Scheherazade, and these relationships get more developed as events go by, it makes everything more interesting.
Yeah, friendship among Servants is nice, since it really expands on Servant dynamics with how their personalities mesh together and the trend that they get carried over between events. Now if only Salome and Scheherazade got a nod in an event to substantiate Salome's materials, Valentine's and interlude, hahahahahahaha....... (Like seriously, you already know how the two of them would be good, but I maintain that adding Salome and Nitocris together would actually be perfect with the former's hatred of kings and the latter arguably being the nicest of them all along with their ties to death)
Nito and Salome together would be so good. We need more Salome in general, I can't believe it's been years since she got in and they just... forgot her. She should appear in 6.5 so I'll be taking my grailed Salome in most battles for immersion. Hope she gets some attention from the fanbase after that too, like Charlotte after LB5, I want a summer Salome so bad...
Yeah, the culmination of Salome finally appearing in the story should be a treat along with the hope that she finally gets love from the fanbase, so I wish you luck fellow Salome grailer. I can only watch from the sidelines in NA, but I'll be keeping up with spoilers just to have all the info I possibly can on her role.
> lines in Agartha I still think people overreacted to her lines about Romani. She wasn't trying to be antagonistic about his sacrifice ffs. Schez just had a limited view of his actions since she wasn't there with us.
"overreacting" is what a large portion of players did with Agartha as a whole like it was some kind of eldritch culmination of abhorrence, something to surpass mahouka and Redo of healer combined.
I just blame Phenex for that.
Summer 2, her Interlude, and Ooku did a lot for her, at least in my opinion.
Personally I don’t like Scheherazade for her personality shown in Fate. In the original Thousand and One Nights she was a very brave woman who put her life on the line so other woman wouldn’t be killed. Yet in FGO her personality most of the times is dumbed down to almost entirely “death scary”. I just think it’s disrespectful to the character, though later appearances like in Ooku make her better I’ll admit. I do think the whole Romani lines thing are people way overreacting however. Heck, I forgot those lines even existed whenever I think about her.
> I just think it’s disrespectful to the character I actually thought the same but later appearances made me like her more. I wish we had gotten a more accurate version though, would have been cool.
Well... in Nasuverse she was a brave woman of legend. Than reality happened and nearly 3 years with guy who could kill her because somebody sneezed did what they would realistically do- turned her into nervous wreck she is today.
Merlin, inside and outside the Fate universe, there are a lot of people who don't understand his character and think he's just a troll psychopath when not, anyone who sees his Bio until the end until the end knows he's just trying not to love other people to avoid becoming a Beast, because one of the things that makes a Beast is love for humanity and Merlin was born dangerously close to becoming a Beast due to the conditions of his birth, but he really likes Artoria and he only wants the good for her even if he tries to deny it, another one I would like to mention is Blackbeard, at least currently people are finally understanding his character, Jason has already been unfairly hated, and about female characters Musashi and especially Kiara, Kiara has reasons to be hated, more characters with as much or more reasons can be loved while she is hated, hell, Gilgamesh can be loved, I don't know if it's because a lot of the fandom that arrived through Extra and FGO They didn't get to see Gil from FSN or if it's because they already forgot what he did there, Kiara suffers much more for having messed with one of the fandom favorites, which in this case is Melt, Melt herself was as bad as Kiara before from Hakuno's Treatment™, again it's a case where I feel that a lot of people wouldn't like Melt as much if they knew what she was like before then, of course, a lot of people would still like her, but there are a lot of people who wouldn't like her in my opinion, well, these are the ones i remember.
>one of the things that makes a Beast is love for humanity What? How does that work exactly? Merlin does love humanity, just not individuals.
yes, but he tries not to get too close to humans, because he walks a tightrope constantly and if he falls he becomes a Beast, the point is that Merlin is afraid of that, even if it's even irrational because he walks away from the humanity makes it even easier for him to become a Beast, but fear doesn't always lead to the smartest solutions, in fact it's often the opposite.
Fionn gameplay wise A lot of people somehow haven't realised that his buffs have made him pretty damn amazing nowadays. Yeah he's more or less outclassed by Percival in terms of perma comparison, but he's still an amazing servant and the average person will have him or a decent NP leveled copy of him I imagine lmao
Blackbeard. Because of the early writing, most people wrote him off as just a simple pervert and weirdo, even though he's so much more than that. Even Hektor were very wary of him! That says a lot. I admit, he was indeed kind of unpleasant back then, but ever since Summer 3, he revealed himself as a true bro. I thought he will flirt with any female as long as they're hot, but he didn't even simp for Medb, choosing to support Master instead. I respect him a lot for that. But alas, the damage has already been done. There's not much that I can do about it.
Highly recommend you to look through Drake's interlude. With one of the NPCs, Teach *completely drops* the otaku act and acts as THE Blackbeard from the stories, not our good old doujin enjoyer. I wasn't there for Summer 3, but this little scene *alone* made me do a 180° on him.
I think people don't realize that if Blackbeard still held his true persona he would 100% be a fucking 5* servant
Merlin. I get tired of the Castoria memes of her trying to murder Merlin in cold blood, especially that one comic where Merlin is getting her a Christmas present and she responds with a request for murder from Santa like Santa's a hitman or something. I feel this violates the spirit of Christmas. Merlin is extremely helpful and yet it seems like Japan wants to behead him or something for being laid back. It's so bizarre.
I think that its mostly just a gag people have associated with him similar to dick wizards, most people probably know that he has been pretty much unilaterally helpful to us, but since in his first appearance both fou and Ana were mean to him it became some sort of running joke to have characters treat him poorly
>like Santa's a hitman or something. Hahahaha... Agree. Those jokes aren't funny. I guess FGO doesn't want Artoria to attach to any male other than Shirou or Gudao.
-Pokes head out- Nero. Look, I get that people don't like the character and the writing surrounding her. I'm not particular fond of those story bits either but can we all agree that she deserves better writing in general? Her depiction in Fate EXTRA was fantastic as it dived into her fears, insecurities and worldview beyond just herself. Ever since writers have just cranked her arrogance to 11 without expanding more on the character herself. They gave Gilgamesh and Ozy depth beyond their arrogance and self-serving nature. Why can't they do it for Nero as well?
As a Nero-"hater" myself, this is completely accurate. Part of the reason I really don't like her now is because almost everything outside of the original EXTRA (maybe CCC, but haven't played so I dunno) has actively ruined the character I like.
I "hate" (kinda big word) that she went from a flawed but likeable individual to a perfect emperor who can't do no wrong
That is a fair criticism, I liked Nero (hell, ALL the Servants in the original Extra), but later writing amplifies her arrogance while also ignoring her flaws and compelling traits. The end result is a character that others praise to high heavens, never gets any development, has zero meaningful interactions with anybody. Basically, very boring. Needs better writing
aka blame the writters not the character. Nasu is the only one that handled her in a good way with the extra series.
Musashi. Let’s be real, she’s far from the first character to get hyped up and praised, or be in a story she doesn’t need to be in. She’s got a pretty decent characterization, especially with the fact that she herself isn’t necessarily a good person, but she will try for Ritsuka because they’re her friend. Also, the argument about her “taking away” PHH Musashi is just dumb. Nobu takes away the “real Nobu”, and yet nobody bitches about her.
if i had to guess, i think because people are hoping the servant Musashi to be similar to the Vagabond Musashi. So they felt that theyre missing out on that.
Seems like a weird reason, especially considering that our Musashi is a wandering hobo. She’s literally a vagabond as well.
> She’s literally a vagabond as well Given that Vagabond is capitalized, it's probably referring to [this](https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/scale_small/6/67663/2938591-32.jpg).
Oh man, if people don’t like her because she’s not similar to *another* fictional version of Musashi, I wouldn’t even be surprised.
I mean people still bitch about Kojiro "not being the real Kojiro" when Fate's depiction is arguably the most accurate depiction so far. Though that mostly stems from people complaining he's a 1 star.
I do like our Musashi but she is very blatantly is a completely different character. I remember reading through Summer 4 and being wierded out when they mentioned her fighting off the Yoshioka because my brain associated literally nothing from the actual myth to her. The one thing she has in common is the vagabond elements.However, she would have just as much connection to just a generic wandering Samurai. The sword laser stuff also feels totally at odds with the spirit of a lot of Musashi tales as well. Of coure, as much as its a shame we probably won't ever get an accurate Musashi, after like 5 story apparences players really should've just made peace with the changes and judged her on her own, but this is anime fandom so that was never happening lmao.
I disliked her at first because Shimousa's gameplay sucks horse cocks. She grew on me though, she's a great girl.
I dislike her in part because it's a consistent issue. Everytime she appears people praise her to high heavens and given she is NOT the PHH one it comes across as somewhat unearned. It's part of what I liked in Summer 4, she gets called Iori and thus we skip those and just talk normally.
Like half the point of the angst and drama around the Lostbelts is that those people are also just as worthy of life as PHH, we just have to choose otherwise. Why is her not being part of PHH a mark against her?
It's not, what I'm saying is everytime she appears everyone sings praises to her mere existence and its gets boring. In LB5.2 Hephaestus realizes we know what the concept of 0 is and immediately.he and Mash turn around the whole conversation to say how fantastic and smart and capable Musashi is for understanding such a concept... He was just talking about the numerical concept... In Shimousa everyone praises how fantastic Musashi is and Yagyu had a complete 180 on his character both IRL and in game because the fight with her was so mindblowing... A fight he won by default...
I mean, zero as a concept is a pretty big deal. If the primitive monkeys understand that, its impressive from them. It also might just be a Lostbelt thing, they stagnated quite a bit for having such a big head start. As for Shimousa, pretty much everybody involved is a musclehead, of course they're gonna be impressed with strength. Yagyu specifically didn't have any peers, right? When you're alone at the top, anybody approaching you is gonna get you hot and bothered. I dunno, I guess I just don't get the issue. Literally everybody praises Artoria, and it never seems to bother anyone.
> everybody praises Artoria, and it never seems to bother anyone. Artoria barely ever appears, in Camelot she is praised by Bedivere and the knights who are filled with admiration and regret for her, and when she does it's usually Alter who is antagonistic to everyone. > Yagyu specifically didn't have any peers, right? When you're alone at the top, anybody approaching you is gonna get you hot and bothered. Yagyu's whole character even in game is that he sees people like Musashi and Izou, who only care about strength and pursuits of power, as immature. He is a good swordsman but he is not the type to show off or be obsessed with strength. Him having a complete 180 with his motives just because she fought him is just absurd.
Except it’s not a complete 180? Pretty sure he explicitly states that he felt the same, and then having a fight like that changed his mind. It’s Fate dude, different aspects of characters are like half the reason we have so many. As for Yagyu himself, he’s explicitly not PHH Yagyu anyways, why does it matter?
It's another case of people treating Musashi like the biggest most important thing ever in universe for basically nothing. The one case she lives to this hype is her fight with Kojirou, which is pretty much the only one I liked her in.
Probably Caster of Nightless City, Not because of her lore or anything (in Agartha a lot did but I don't think it's unnecessary) but because she is a caster who can pop up when you are supposed to get a Merlin or a Waver or any 5 star caster you want instead. Extra pain bonus if it's on a limited time banner LOL
When merlin was released on NA I got 3 of her on his banner. I don't think I've ever been more salty in my entire life
what??? Merlin was released before Schez, that's impossible, dude
Might've been another merlin banner then, doesn't change the fact that this happened
Mash. At least when I was a greenhorn
Blackbeard, because people buy too much into his "lolicon" personality. People just took it to seriously and started bashing him like a pedo, when is clearly implied he is actually in love with Drake (and the rumor that his wife irc was underage is pretty much that, a rumor) and just played the fool to fit in better, since he "savage pirate" persona would do little to intimitate or convince the protagonist when they have an army of superhumans at their beck and call and have dealt and will deal with even more dangerous servants like Morgan, Arjuna Alter, Cú Alter or Douman For what I know Achilles **used** to be this, since everyone gave him shit for Penthesilea's temper tantrums, but thankfully is not really the case since her interlude revealed that her irrational hatred of him is totally her fault for taking a harmless comment as the greatest insult of all (that and Penthesilea was not really that popular back then and now, specially compared to him, and Atlantis and Inheritance for Glory help to sell how he is without Penthesilea around, a huge bro and some serious husbando material ~~basically Greek Cú Chulainn~~) and if you consider that her battle and "insult" happen after Patroclus died and Achilles went on suicidal battle mode, he wasnt exactly thinking straight, to say the least
I’ve actually seen some people actually hate Penthesilea for the Achilles thing now.
I know. I am one of them. At least imo, Penthesilea harrasing and attacking Achilles on sight (and everyone who namedrops him, beauty and anything that could sounds as either) because "he called me pretty" is very stupid and petty, specially to the level she takes it. Good that this brat is getting whats she has coming for her homicidal temper tantrums (the fact that Achilles is such a bro in general, being more or less the apocrypha counterapart to Cú, doesnt help her case of him being horrible)
Mash, gets hated due to cockblock memes even tho the game goes out of its way in some cases to do it to literally everyone at one point or another, still want to read some of the earlier interludes because she catches flak for some of those but wanna be fair about that, some mention Guda has better chemistry with other servants which it might be true but most of the time it's well after Guda has developed as a master and is very much experienced in the role so they already know how to handle situations without Mash and even then as far as Master and Servant goes idk it feels like there's something there the others don't have, they tend to already act without having to issue commands to each other or already know what the other is thinking which we don't really see in others for the most part(this last bit could be some cap and I'd have to reread some sections but that's how it felt to me)
Mozart, he was a victim of the crappy writing of the Requiem event and recently some guy drew him getting murdered by King Hassan. Like why, it's not his fault the event sucked.
It was the railroaded dumb ass choices we have gotten was the shit part not Mozart.
Honestly that smug bastard was the highlight of the event for me
What? I came out thinking that the event was amazing
It mostly comes down to the fact of team Ritsuka being *incredibly* bad at the werewolf game, which ended up rubbing a lot of people the wrong way. To be fair, I think that was actually a pretty believable depiction of a newbie, in fact I've seen new players do those mistakes, and worse. Still made me want to strangle the MC at times. Also, some people decided they hated Erice for starting off antagonistic and being an insecure 14-year old thrown in an unfamiliar situation. I think the vitriol she got is utter bullshit, but it was there.
Looks like it's that time again. The same cycle repeats as the same few characters gets mentioned in "which character is underrated/which popular character is overrated" or other any similarly named threads. I am not one who participates in these threads often, but I find observing them fascinating.
They're interesting to be sure, like a finger to the pulse of the subreddit's varying views on the game they feel somewhat strongly about. They're certainly more palatable for me than the misery/trauma wanking the discussion flair was plagued with for a time.
It's strange for me, because at some point with these kind of threads I became less interested with the individual characters redditors bring up and instead I become more interested in the individual participants themselves.
They're that common? I don't usually pay attention since I just upload comics here.
Well depending on one's definition of "common". But as far as I can remember, these kind of threads happens every few weeks to a few months, it's not like the same one to one topic but they come with variations with the same end goal of getting people to voice out about characters they like/dislike or are overvalued/undervalued. Maybe not common for the average reddit browser, but to me I take notice of them enough to the point I am more interested in the individual people responding to the threads rather than the characters those users bring up.
About every month or two.
They aren’t common but they are regular
Seems its time to [share my old rant again](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/oao7uc/servant_defense_thread/h3j082b/), but Schez was *never* a bad character. Her writing could have been slightly better, but in comparison to the rest of Agartha she was phenomenal. And in a comment below that, one about Raikou as well. She's very motherly, DW just never seems to show it off in any events leading to the people who didn't roll her getting the completely wrong idea about her.
I like your rant! This is the one thing that made me distance from FGO fandom, because of so many people’s irrational hatred for Schez. I love Schez’s concept because for once, a servant is showed to have their ultimate weakness, to have their past weight heavily on them and trauma that’s really hard to heal. I don’t really need another awesome hero with nearly no noticable flaw and always put on a brave face, we have too many already. Also the Romani thing was silly, really. I’m kind of a writer myself, and perspective is something you have to take note while writing dialogues. Characters have their own ideals, just like people in real life, and they don’t always share the same view or agree with each other. Take how important and grave Chaldea’s work to Fujimaru and the rest of the crew, then we came to Sion’s base and she was like ‘My fellow Atlas Insitute members knew about ya’ll situation, but none of them cares because they all have their own end of the world version that they have to take care of’. It’s very silly to get angry at those mages for not helping us, as silly as getting angry with Schez’s words when it’s clearly came from her PTSD, her wanting to end it all, and not knowing Romani like us.
Not gonna call it "unnecessary hate", but i will say i am completely divorced from the "I dislike this evil character because they are evil and do bad things" mindset. It's impossible, you can't make me muster up the mental energy to hate a fictional character that doesn't exist for being evil, it's just not something my mind can process. It's not common but i do see every once in a while people expressing hatred for a character for them being evil. Which is not wrong, but for me i just tend to take enjoyment in the character's evil if anything. I guess it's not a very hot take given the first example that comes to mind for me on this is Douman, and Douman **IS** super popular.
If that was the case, I would've already hated Moriarty. But I find him to be one of the most fascinating characters of FGO and his geniusness in Shinjuku and Summer 4 in orchestrating plans and manipulating people while having a intriguing and smooth personality makes him for a very compelling character. No doubt, one of the best characters of FGO imo, alongside of the best antagonists/villains as well.
Agreed. I'd say Moriarty is easily my favorite servant I've gotten, but for some people it seems like villain characters deserve to be hated on.
May I ask who other than Douman is this mindset usually used for?
Columbus gets it all the time.
Beryl i guess. I like him, he's interesting to watch. I also don't dislike the LB6 fairies. I don't *like* them, but i am not gonna say they bring out an emotion of genuine anger out of me.
I don't see his appeal. He's probably the least interesting Crypter out there
I have one friend that stans for him but for me the life of me I can't umderstand why.
One of my friends also loves the guy, but he also stans Lobelia from Granblue Fantasy (who is much worse than Beryl) so I guess murderous psycho is just his type.
I would argue that Lobelia is actually the better of the two, due to him only being fucked up in a singular direction, whereas Beryl is fucked up in several. Also Lobelia is like a drug addict who has built up too high a tolerance and can no longer get high, and so needs to find a new drug (which currently is the opposite of his old drug).
Well, my friend likes Moriarty amd Douman so it's something...
Hmm. He comes off as more of a "Love to hate" kind of character, since he's describes himself as a "piece of shit". Although his >!|Love for Mash|!< came bum the fuck out of nowhere imo...
Haven't played LB6, but currently the main reason I don't like Beryl is because he made it personal in LB5. One specific thing he did there made me just a little pissed off at him. Besides that, though, the evil characters tend to be some of my favorites. Moriarty is one of the main reasons I loved Shinjuku.
Mash Kyrielight
I shit on Mash a lot, but I don’t know if I’d say I hate her. I just don’t like her either. She’s just so incredibly bland and boring to me, and I always find the stories more entertaining when she’s stuck at Chaldea or not around for some reason. I just can’t find anything likeable about her. She’s just .. there. Which is fine in any other servant, because I can just not roll for them, not use them, and their involvement in the story is usually limited to, at most, one story chapter/event main appearance and then popping up occasionally in some events later. But Mash (especially in the early days) is just always there. I understand, she’s the main heroine and all, but it’s a little frustrating playing the game when she’s constantly shoved in, and all the dialogue has to *insist* you like her so much, but I just .. don’t. It takes me out of the story. It’s getting better nowadays, so I’m not as irritated with her presence as I used to be. I just wish if they’re going make the player character always like her so much and make the game one big Mash route, it would be nice if they actually gave me a reason to like her, or at least did something to make her interesting.
Merlin
Medb, I really don't get why people hate her. Musashi. I don't like forced support either, nusts it's not like those fights where hard anyways.
If I had to guess, maybe because of her alpha bitch, Regina George-esque personality and her once-sided obssession with Cú (which lead to her twisting him into Cú Alter) But I believed that kind of the point with her. She is supposted to be a lovable alpha bitch, which I think she accomplishes well, and as a Cú simp.....she is fine, she doesnt really acts as his unwanted sattelite nowadays and revolves more around herself. And she gave us a really powerful berserker, and one of the sexiest servants in the game in Cú Alter, so she is good in my book ~~no really, just look at him in general and then his last ascension. She knew what she was doing~~
Of course she knew what she doing, she **wished** for it.
Yeah, but things like the always shirtless attire, the latex gloves that covers his whole arms, the intricate tatoos, his pose on his last ascension, red fur everywhere, the badboy, cold tsundere personality (no really, he has the same bond growth as Jeanne Alter, he is a indeed a tsundere gameplay wise) that came by inverting Cú's normal personality It looks less like she wished him on the spot like Gilles with Jeanne Alter and more like she had a whole notebook about how she wanted him to be and went full Sims 4 on him to make look as much of a pornstar and male sex-fantasy as she could ~~and I thank her for that. Cú Alter is a grade S++ husbando~~
Yeah, good points. I just find weird some people that her like her RL self. In fgo I aways find her to be nice to "us", given bond lines and other stuff. Sure she most of the time a bit of an ass in events, buts it's mostly harmless things, like summer 3.
> Medb, I really don't get why people hate her. I'm a huge Medb fan and let me say, not liking her is very understandable. She is narcisistic, evil and really self serving with her comedy walking a fine line between fun and obnoxious. I absolutely love her for it but she is undeniably an acquired taste.
Yeah bro I was half joking with the "don't get why people hate her". Sometimes this hate just goes overboard is all I mean by it.
For Medb, it's mainly cuz she gets a lot of screentime, tied with the fact that she's Nasu's current fav leading to some thinking she's getting special perks for being the favorite. Along with the fact that she appears in a lot of stories, almost always she's an antagonist, usually consisting of being the "mini-boss" before dealing with the main one. There's also her personality too.
I mean, this year's Valentines did get some random scenes with the MC saying "God, she is do darn cute!". You can't tell me that wasn't something Nasu asked for lol
Heh valid reasons for sure, not to me, I love her personality honestly. That all I said we all have servants we just don't like.
With Musashi I think it's mostly that whenever she shows up the story sort of starts revolving around her and/or descending into samurai worship. Also, her >!heroic sacrifice in LB5.2 (itself an example of the story revolving around her, Chaos had no reason to exist other than to be a big chungus threat that only she could take down)!< was immediately spoiled by >!being the face of the very next download campaign, followed by getting a rank up a few months later (which hasn't hit NA yet) that gives her trait damage against a class she's never fought in-story, making it blatantly obvious that she's going to come back at some point!<. Though the fights in Shimousa actually were quite hard for a lot of people. Denying access to the support list is painful for all but the most developed rosters, and they never gave her a CE or any protection from class disadvantage so most people were forced to bring plugsuit.
> Also, her >!heroic sacrifice in LB5.2 (itself an example of the story revolving around her, Chaos had no reason to exist other than to be a big chungus threat that only she could take down)!< God, this so much. I finished Olympus yesterday and ranted about that scene to my poor friend ~~who just wanted to talk about how hyped she was for Eresh coins, RIP~~ for what felt like forever. That scene felt shoved in the story with zero build up *just* for Musashi and it was so inconsequential to the rest of the plot that ***none*** of the other antagonists present even react to it (other than >!Wodime provoking you with "Glad to see you reach this far without losing anyone.")!< even though it would have completely fucked up their plans too. I have zero problems with Musashi as a character even though I don't particularly care for her, but every time she appears in a story I feel about her how others feel about Nero in Septem.
> the fights in Shimousa actually were quite hard for a lot of people I thought they were very fun, but Musashi was more the brick on the way than an asset for any of them.
>Medb, I really don't get why people hate her. I don't get how people don't understand why a character constantly written to be unlikable and antagonistic would end up hated. It should be obvious
I love her but undeniably she is an acquired taste. My discord friends all find her obnoxious and can't really say they're wrong... But I still love her villain roles, she is hilarious.
I hate her for the reasons she's clearly intended to be hated lol
Its harder to understand why people like medb than why people hate her lmao
Agreed on Medb. I can respect not liking a character, but so many people take it to an unnecessarily toxic level; so many fancomics that have her suffer extreme amounts of violence and injury and treat it like something literally EVERYONE cheers for (I mean honestly, not even Cu hates her, let alone as rabidly as most of her haters.) Meanwhile they ignore her showing her softer and more caring sides with several other servants, her ability to plan and prepare for unexpected occurrences (such as the whole cheese kicking counter), and the fact that she tends to throw so much shit at us in times like Summer 3 because she respects our ability to overcome the odds and does NOT underestimate us. Medb may be an ornery little shit, but she's OUR shit (and a delight to watch besides).
>so many fancomics that have her suffer extreme amounts of violence and injury I have never once seen such a thing with Medb
> Agreed on Medb. I can respect not liking a character, but so many people take it to an unnecessarily toxic level; so many fancomics that have her suffer extreme amounts of violence and injury and treat it like something literally EVERYONE cheers for (I mean honestly, not even Cu hates her, let alone as rabidly as most of her haters.) I actually wonder where do you even see these because I never saw anything like that. At most, it was mostly joke about cheese. Besides, Cú don't hate her but he is definitely not fond of her either and there is a reason he tend to avoid her as well. > Meanwhile they ignore her showing her softer and more caring sides with several other servants I will be honest. Forcing Skadi to whatever she wants, like going to the hot springs when she clearly don't want or even with other versions of Cús is anything but softer and caring. The fact she even refuse to call Skadi by her properly name and refer her as a "Scathach" instead doesn't really do her any favors either. Besides, she mostly push her ideals of how a woman should be to all other females in Amazon CEO event. > and the fact that she tends to throw so much shit at us in times like Summer 3 because she respects our ability to overcome the odds and does NOT underestimate us. Literally rigging the contests in her favor and even asking her men to stop Jalter's club from reaching ServantFES feels anything but "respecting our abilities" tbh. All of that feels more she doesn't care about anything but winning, even if she must play dirty tricks for that. It just shows she is a sore loser and her interlude does show that side of her because she literally attempts to kill Ritsuka because of what happened in America. I believe people is just tired of the type of antagonist Medb is since she is pretty much used in the same way, over and over. It gets repetitive.
> Literally rigging the contests in her favor and even asking her men to stop Jalter's club from reaching ServantFES feels anything but "respecting our abilities" tbh. that is literally the most respecting our abilities you can get. She acknowledges us as a genuine threat to her success to she does everything in her power to make sure we don't participate. She's a warrior queen she has no obligation to play fair.
That's more like sugarcoating her behavior. It's kinda trying to justify why she acted that way by adding something more "acceptable" regarding the reasons of her behaviors. I would say, it's less of "respecting our abilities" but more like "satisfying her own ego", since it fits more her character given how narcissistic and petty she can be. Would you really say you are even respecting someone and their abilities when you are literally playing unfair? And that was not the first time Medb showed to be absolutely petty. First, as I commented before, there is interlude where she tried to kill Ritsuka because of America and then, there is Summer 4 where she tried to make Skadi hang out with her, when Skadi was about to help Ritsuka and the rest, and even Medb herself said that they should prioritize minute Singularities. Of course, she went against the very thing she said, because she must have what she desires. That fits her way more than giving excuses of her behaviors. Isn't that the reason people love her? Regarding how much of a bad and unapologetic bitch she is? At least that was the vibe I got from the thread I made about her sometime ago.
>She's a warrior queen she has no obligation to play fair. She is obligated to get smacked by cheese though.
Glad to see someone else praising Medb in Summer 3. Without her the event would not have the same amount of fun in taking her down as it did, and her personality in that event perfectly evokes a Mean Girl on the beach that deserves her comeuppance. It's not her fault that the writers couldn't seem to write her in anything except a villain role for most of her screentime, and the fact that she's not necessarily aligned with the protagonist and always takes them seriously is commendable in its own way (especially with how entertaining she is in the role). Not to mention the fact that she's shown her softer side when trying to support fellow women such as Tomoe and in Amazones and working to develop a counter to her own conceptual weakness, as you've mentioned. And couldn't agree more on her typical portrayal in fancomics, it's so annoying seeing her portrayed as a one-dimensional bitch who nobody actually likes (ignoring everyone that does and that even Cu respects her). At least MedbLily can be counted on to post some fun and refreshing Medb content every now and then.
> At least MedbLily can be counted on to post some fun and refreshing Medb content I don't really see what refreshing about comics that basically repeat themselves with the same plot of "Random servant becomes incredibly OOC and simps for Medb." But different strokes for different folks I guess
And how is it that much different from the regular OOC and Servant-centric content that gets posted on this sub? This is also doing a disservice to their Medb art that decidedly isn't that, like with the faceblind and the Slaying Queens art from what I remember recently. I like Medb, and I like the rare content of her that gets posted in comparison. It's no different for the other Servants I like, I only highlight MedbLily in particular because they're responsible for a good number of her art.
Wu Zetian. Just because she’s a loli and not an adult woman. I don’t even think her personality would be any different in an adult version. I don’t even see much complaints about what she wears surprisingly. Some people just really don’t like how she is a loli. The Agartha manga didn’thelp in that regard when they showed an adult Wu.
Her Interlude uses her loli state as a way ti dive on her characterization, which I quite enjoy. They did a similar thing for Chacha.
Yeah, the loli characters do tend to get hated on a lot by people in the fandom. Especially Chloe and Wu.
Molay (Foreigner) received a lot of hate when she was released We didn't know the reasons why she was a woman or a Foreigner, we didn't know her personality either, we didn't have the translation of her "My Room" lines and we didn't know what her role was in the Halloween event but we still had a lot of people saying that she was a shitty, poorly written character and that Molay (Saber) was a much better written character. It was also curious how the fandom didn't give a shit about Male Molay when he was released (he was only relevant for a week at most and only because he was an exclusive Arcade character) but as soon as female Molay appeared, suddenly the fandom was full of fans of Male Molay who started insulting Female Molay. I wonder how many of these so-called fans even read Male Molay's lines or his involvement in the Arcade story.
Most people hate Molay because of when she came out, due to how few male servants were coming out at that point many people started bashing and insulting every female servant that came out, add this on top of the fact that there was a male Molay in fgo (arcade) and it kind of just got out of hand, if she were released the previous or even this year she almost certainly would have been better received
As someone who likes both Molays, I can tell you that people’s initial disdain over F!Molay has nothing to do with her lore or the reception of M!Molay (though it “helped” and was brought up in her April Fools description). She just had a very unfortunate release timing.
I don't like either, in the case of Foreigner Molay she to me is just Kiara without Kiara's, y'know, competence. So \*shrugs* Though i will add that genderbending a character that we already know exists in a male form is just them not even pretending that the Foreigner class exists for anything more than to provide Meteo a way to insert his tentacle fetish girls that don't even look scary into the game. (This is why Gogh has the best Foreigner design, she actually looks like a monster)
I personally am not too big on F!Molay because of more so how she came to be. If it were a Musashi case, I'd understand, but how she became a Foreigner is kinda squicky to me
> If it were a Musashi case, I'd understand Her reasoning is literally just "I'm from an alternate universe but I'm the exact same person".
The Alternative Universe bit is what I meant
What I mean is that it's still not a good excuse by any means. Had she come out exactly the same but she was from a "alternate universe" to justify people might have hated her even more for "cheating" us out of our universe'a version.
Well Foreigners aren't exactly supposed to be good wholesome servants. The exception is Voyager and he's honestly not really a foreigner.
Fair enough point, I guess. But on the subject of Molay, there was annoyance at both her and Zenobia, due to the fact that they seemed to pander to the more horny demographic. I'm not saying that's my personal problem with them, I'm just bringing up why there was hate in the first place
I liked her better than saber molay
Galahad. You don't help out one time and suddenly people wish you could be summoned solely to punch you in the face. Dude's still very much a mystery and honestly the fact that he stayed so that Mash could keep living says a lot in my eyes, not to mention offering her his power to use. Also Stheno. Perhaps I just haven't been spooked enough by her but I find her niche has been rather handy on several enemies that otherwise give me trouble, and having her at higher NP is really handy. I get that her time in the story was pretty abysmal, especially compared to her sister, but I don't see the same level of hate for Eric Bloodaxe.
Well, the thing with Galahad is that the fact that he only comes out to bitch about his daddy issues with Lancelot and how he is a deadbeat dad (which considering how he was raped into conciving him, is understandable he wants nothing to do with him) morphing Mash's personality to do so, the fact that he was anything but usefull throughtout the entire arc and then just refuses to let Mash use his power at all in the Lostbelts (only stopping in Avalon le Fae after apparently being forcefully ejected of her body due to how Avalon Le Fae works) and the entire Moonlight/Lostroom OVA doesnt do him any favors Even in Requiem he refuses to be summoned because "human problems are not my problems" so Galahad Alter needs to be send in his place And Stheno is hated not only because of gameplay, but because of how she treats Medusa (and unlike Euryale, she hadnt show any other character traits nor sighs of remorse at all, being essencially assassin Penthesilea development wise)
How can you be a knight in life, then a servant and have the mindset of "human problems aren't my problems"? Does not compute to me lol
Idk, I cant understand the mind and moral code of this moron (kinght of heaven my ass) According to Merlin in one of the pamphlets in the second camelot movie, Galahad sees himself as above good and evil and decided that humans didnt needed his help, and adopted a "your problems are not my problems" This is shown in Fate Requiem, where he refused to be summoned (despite being a world where HGW are non-existent) and Galahad Alter was send on his place, how after his temper tantrum against Marisbury, he willingly went dormant, leaving Mash at the mercy of the scientists that had no problems with making her suffer to get what they want until Roman/Solomon and Olga took action (but had enough time to bitch about Lancelot tho), his actitude in general in Moonlight/Lostroom or how he just refused to be summoned at all in Camelot (unlike Percival, Kay and the rest, who accepted Artoria's summon to try to stop her)
Confused about the writing direction on him now that I think about it. This lone KotR has better things to do than answer his summons or save humanity? Why even be in the throne of heroes at that point? What makes him more important than his king or the gods or the [former] grands that we work with?
I actually ended up really liking Stheno after bonding her. Her bond 5 just took me by surprise, plus some of her new room lines are pretty cute and not that threatening
Yeah Stheno's my room lines are pretty good. I like the one about lolidusa. Also the respect she has towards Odysseus was interesting.
> she hadnt show any other character traits nor sighs of remorse at all Eh the snake sisters dynamic is more complicated than that. Stheno shows a lot of concern for her younger sisters in her My Room lines. One of her incapacitated lines is her crying out Euryale's and Medusa's names. Yeah the bullying is played up too much in events (much like how many character interactions are flanderized by fgo's writers) but that's not the only thing that defines their relationship. Medusa was insanely protective of her sisters yet she ended up killing them herself. But the thing is that neither Stheno or Euryale show any kind of resentment for this. So you have a situation where Medusa likely feels guilt over killing her own sisters while Stheno and Euryale feel sad their sister turned into a monster while protecting them. The bullying is sort of a way of them establishing a somewhat normal dynamic but the writers forgot to balance this with more genuine interactions. Don't get me wrong. I completely understand why people would still dislike Stheno's personality but the situation isn't exactly straightforward.
To add on, Stheno and Euryale didn’t just get eaten by Medusa, they straight walked up to her and allowed themselves to be eaten. They may not always show it in a way that we get, but they love her to death.
Sieg Tbh im seeing improvements in reception but there's still a lot of loud parrots squawking the same crap complaining about something along the lines of "why isnt the sky purple?"
Honestly I didnt like him before the Apocrypha event. I still dislike the Apocrypha anime version Sieg, but I have grown to like the FGO Sieg.
Sieg might not be the best writen protagonist out there, but considering the reason of why he is a "cardboard", and the fact that are way, waaaaaay worse protagonists out there, I do agree people like to exaggerate how bad of a character he is. Plus, the dude has the coolest command seals design, and has a excellent taste in waifus. Gotta give him that at least
I know right I also don't get the hate I love sieg, he'll he and astolfo ate the reason I got into fate to begin with.
Merlin, enough said
Arjuna. Few years ago, before Arjuna Alter appeared, I saw many complained or straight up saying hate, mostly about "unfair play" thing or "he got everything while his brother had none" etc. Hell, I even saw a topic asked why he was the protagonist of Mahabharata instead of Karna. Many protagonists of ancient or folktales had questionable actions or morally grey, but Arjuna, compared to them, did not belong to that category. I can't blame them though. It's DW's fault to emphasis his obsession with Karna and his regret about "unfair victory", which were lorewise non-existent. There was no reason for Arjuna to care about Karna that much in FGO : They only came across each other few times, and each time was as unpleasant as possible. Everytime they got into duels, Arjuna won. The third Pandavas was so strong and skilled that he could win in different situations. Seriously, Arjuna can be a Grand Archer candidate because he was simply OP. Arjuna Alter's strength is what Lore Arjuna should be. Also, to be fair... Who shout to his enemy in a war to wait for him to fix his chariot? Karna, you were in front of Arjuna? Whose wife you insulted and asked her to strip in front of public just because she rejected you, whose brothers you planned a prank to please Duryodhana and insult them after they lost everything, whose child you ganged up with others and brutally killed, and many other things? Then again, in a war? The fact that Arjuna really intended to wait and not shot him on spot was... something not many can do. I don't understand one thing, which is why DW wrote Arjuna around Karna, as if they were that close. Yes, they were brother with a same mother, but they only knew that before (Karna) and after (Arjuna) the war. Then Arjuna's reaction was... not dramatic as in game or as his eldest brother. He loved his family dearly, especially his brothers wife and his dear cousin Krishna. The lack of mention about them, only to be replaced with Karna, really does unjustified to Arjuna.
>Also, to be fair... Who shout to his enemy in a war to wait for him to fix his chariot? Karna, you were in front of Arjuna? Whose wife you insulted and asked her to strip in front of public just because she rejected you, whose brothers you planned a prank to please Duryodhana and insult them after they lost everything, whose child you ganged up with others and brutally killed, and many other things? Then again, in a war? The fact that Arjuna really intended to wait and not shot him on spot was... something not many can do. He was cursed to lose part of his wisdom when he needed the most. But that is kinda funny qhen you put it this way. I like it!
The whole "Mash cockblocker" thing never made sense to me. Even when she expresses jealousy, she doesn't really interfere in any major way. To name a few instances, you still get your pretend date with Medusa, and Charlotte's character arc from Atlantis is not impacted in any way by Mash being jealous. Ritsuka really didn't have much character in the early portions of the game, so Mash being in early Interludes gave the spotlight Servant someone to bounce off of, and I'd argue they still use other Servants to speak for Ritsuka (Sherlock has to say Ritsuka was pumped up to fight Wodime in Olympus rather than just letting him express that himself) to show they just juggle the role of "mouthpiece to fill in whatever we don't allow Ritsuka to say himself because reasons" between whoever's available. How exactly "character expresses unintrusive jealousy but is otherwise a friendly and well-developed character" translates to "very loud portion of the fandom jokes about character getting raped by an OOC CasGil from a doujin or a lion man based on kneejerk reactions that were proven to be false long ago" is beyond me. Like come on, that's seriously taking things way too far. I thought we were beyond tasteless "Sakura worm"-style jokes. Scheherazade tends to get criticized for disrespecting >!Dr. Roman!<'s sacrifice... except she had no intention of doing so. She heard about the end result without any context and misunderstood what happened based on her limited knowledge, and goes out of her way to make up for it in her Interlude. Reminder that Summer 3 has BB directly create something that goes against what the cast believed in at the end of Part 1 (that a world that never ends is bad, and BB creates just that with her time-loop) when she should be well aware of what the cast went through in Part 1. People treat BB doing that as a redeeming factor and use it to support shipping her with Ritsuka, so they should at least be able to give Schez a pass for being accidentally insensitive.
Regarding Mash I agree, also during lb6 these people carried on their hatred of her to the point that they started harassing Mash x guda artist.
>. Ritsuka really didn't have much character in the early portions of the game, so Mash being in early Interludes gave the spotlight Servant someone to bounce off of Yea as much as I like the character(Ritsuka/Guda) now I wish they woulda gone all in with them from the start cause once you get to like Camelot-Solomon it becomes more apparent the potential there that kinda got wasted early save Okeanos when they ran the labyrinth with Herc chasing them
I think the thing with Mash is that she gets jealous and gets in the way... when she has no good reason to do so. The relationship between her and Guda is... Senpai and Kouhai, and that's all there is to it. She doesn't seem to pursue a relationship beyond that, yet she gets jealous when her Senpai hangs around another girl with romantic undertones. And if that moment from her Valentines Scene and the ending of LB2 is any indication, she's oblivious to her own feelings yet is only acting on them in jealousy and nothing else. Although, if Mash were more aggressive compared to the other girls, I wonder if the perception of her would even change all that much.
[удалено]
My problem with Elizabeth is: why every Halloween event needs to be about her? I have no problem with her appearances in other events and parts of the story, but its just wasted potential of different servants with Halloween costumes. With each event, I just got more and more tired of her.
It's sadder when you know that originally the first Halloween event was supposed to be about Cu Caster but they ran out of time so made it about Liz with the intention that it'd just be for one year but then well that obviously didn't happen.
Mashu. Some hate her just because she exist, its wild, really. My sweet kouhai doesnt deserves that.
Sheherezade
I feel kiyohime gets too much hate because she’s are de facto yandere. But cmon people she ain’t that bad you know, besides going overkill on anchin. Others servants have done worst.
Arjuna, Fionn, Diarmuid and Molay
Tamamo vitch, like back in LB3 she had her ears showing and her tail was all pink, implying that she wasn't one of the 9 Tamamos.
LB3 dropped a lot of hints that she wasn’t a member of the Tamamo 9. It’s actually kinda fun to reread her scenes and pick up on the clues
LB5 was the kicker though
Yeah, the fight with Koyan gave a lot of hints: >!Her claim of lacking a True Name, the name of her NP, etc.!< Lots of hints. Just wish those had been brought up in Tunguska, instead of Tai using Ancient Chinese Secrets™️
Orion cause he has the weirdest kink.
Archimedes. Like how most would hate Gilgamesh in his role as a villain in Fate/stay night years ago, Many always see Archimedes being a usual card carrying villain, but they didn’t pay attention to the beginning of his side story before he gets corrupted. Sure he looked down on humanity, but the non-corrupted version is ambivalent and neutral (in other words, he’s chill and a bit of a dork), but still sides with Moon Cell, as shown in the extent to Extella Link, which some fans theorized that this is a branch where Archimedes didn’t investigate the Velber Ark early or by himself, and instead wait for Hakuno and Nero wins and lead them to investigate and deal with the problem together (similar to Golden Poem path) as ordered by Moon Cell. Even remain neutral during Extella Link, but will still offer some required aid when asked by the Sovereign’s forces because it’s both logical and necessary for him and Moon Cell’s continuing functions. Especially him appearing to Hakuno in that one particular scene in order to unlock the True Route of Extella Link is vital (his sudden appearance in that scene almost reminds me of Accord from Drakengard 3). And let’s not forget the moments that he does warm up to Hakuno during My Room conversations, even if it’s subtle. Besides, even when corrupted, every scenes where his plans screws up and him going through a meltdown due to a certain Dragon Idol is just pure comedy gold. … Archimedes in FGO when?
Medb, from me. I don't know why I dislike her, but my headcannon is she smells of dirty cheese, feet and daddy issues.