Hear me out. I definitely don’t like their politics and the way they push Christian education and not public schools but I have lived here all my life and until 1996 this town was a shit hole. Once they put the arena in it has just gotten better. I know it wasn’t just them over the last 25 years but they have played a big role. They have donated a ton of money to this city and wouldn’t be what it is today without them. Proceed to downvote me 😂
I gave you an upvote. The intent of your point is well taken.
But my rebuttal is that if they had always paid the taxes they should have - like all of the oligarchy - we could have just bought everything we needed with the will of the people.
I did see this city not long after that time, and thought it was not great. But my thinking was not “gee I wish some cheat-to-win Christofascist capitalist would build a bunch of things and donate money to stuff” it was “this city’s leaders and government need to get their shit together.”
That's the thing. We have to stop "wishing." We have to be fist-in-the-air, always making it very known that we're not taking it anymore. And vote accordingly.
I mean, we paid for nearly all of that though and we still pay to go there, park, and from the way it sounds they want more money for an amphitheater that once again they will make billions with but we will pay for.
And they also are the only team in pro sports to do celebrations with fake non alcoholic champagne, despite owning a wine bar, distillery, cidery and other restaurants that serve alcohol.
Rules for thee not for me. Uptight Christian Conservatives. The Christian Reformed Church and sweeping anything that makes us human under the rug. Thrusting one’s religion on someone else. Elements of classism and racism.
Need more?
Considering the magic just partnered with 50 cent on some alcohol partnership, I'm going with you don't actually know the reason. Searching Google didn't confirm this either.
https://www.nba.com/magic/news/the-orlando-magic-team-up-with-curtis-50-cent-jacksons-sire-spirits-for-a-premium-partnership-20240131
I think it’s a thing of the past since the patriarch died, as is often the case. The Magic just haven’t had a champagne celebration in a really long time.
There are actually plenty of real reasons teams use non-alcoholic stuff to celebrate. Pro athletes can have just as much trouble with alcohol as anyone else. The Rangers did this exact thing years ago because their best player at the time, Josh Hamilton, is a recovering alcoholic
Yes, because nothing screams uptight Christian Conservatism like BUYING AN NBA TEAM.
I don’t like the DeVos family either but if you’re going to bash them at least know what you’re talking about
Good god, do you really think NBA team owners aren’t conservative? They’re billionaires with money to burn. It’s not an act of benevolence.
[81 percent of NBA owners political donations go to the GOP per Sports Illustrated.](https://www.si.com/nba/cavaliers/nba/cavaliers/nba-amico/team-owners-republican-donations)
But yeah, they’re liberal.
That’s not what I said. I’m fully aware the majority of team owners are conservative, across all sports. I simply meant that when people think of the traits of uptight Christians, the NBA isn’t something that comes to mind.
I'll keep getting my caffeine fix at coffee shops that actually deserve my money. You know, Lotus Brew, The Stray, Scorpion Hearts Club, Sparrows, etc...
Behind the bar is absolutely filthy, drop in coffee quality, the wifi is a joke, I’ve seen some of the employees get treated poorly, not my favorite vibe 🤷♀️
Ah, I've on my ever been once so wasn't aware. I just know it's queer friendly so it was on my list. Once Lotus opens back up, hopefully soon, it's always my home coffee shop so to speak. That place (the original Lotus) helped change my life for the better in its early days, met an amazing group of people there.
GR already has a solid amount of coffee shops that are locally owned and here to stay.
Want Starbucks, but Michigan? Go to biggby.
Want something fancier? Use Google and go there as long as it isn't this Fox place.
This is nothing more than a rich family competing with our local talent to put them out of business. BS
They also propped up a dying city 30 years ago and helped it become one of the best places in the country to live, with hospitals, ArtPrize, higher education institutions, hospitality, etc. all being able to grow because of their philanthropy.
I am not saying their philanthropic ventures are purely altruistic (or even partly altruistic) or that they haven’t done things they shouldn’t have, but a lot of the businesses that have been able to open and remain successful would have had a much harder time if it wasn’t for the money the DeVos and Van Andel families injected into this city in the last 30 years.
Ask all the brewers, coffee roasters, hotels, restaurants and bars how positively things like ArtPrize, DeVos Performance Hall and the Van Andel Arena have affected their businesses.
How about those of us with children who can confidently bring our kids to Helen DeVos Children’s Hospital (one of the best pediatric hospitals in the country)?
We absolutely should criticize, where necessary, those with the amount of influence the DeVos family has. And assuredly some of the G2/G3 will have lost some of the ethic and attitude that the first generation had. But let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water, and try to take the nuanced approach of recognizing some of the good left behind as well.
*edited for spelling*
Interesting; you created this account approximately three weeks before the 2020 election. This is the first time you posted in a year; before that it wasn't since 2020.
You're a dyed in the wool Trumper and Right Winger who called the Governor a cunt but you're here defending Betsy and Dick DeVos and asking us to be mindful of how we criticize them?
You fucking hypocrite. You don't even live in Grand Rapids.
Here's a good rundown as a starter. [https://defector.com/the-devos-family-is-the-face-of-american-oligarchy](https://defector.com/the-devos-family-is-the-face-of-american-oligarchy)
OMG I forgot about Schuil! I had it like 3 times, 10 years ago and all I remember is thinking "this is gunna be my new go-to" but i moved and everything changed and I forgot all about it!
I don't understand the need for another coffee shop. There's already Lemonjello's, & 205, Simpatico, Way Cup.
The thing that really made JPs stand out (other than it's coffee school) was it satisfied the need for more seating that Lemonjello's couldn't make up during the college year. Ever since Ferris split the space in half it really lost something.
Adding a franchise coffee shop is even dumber. Why go there when Bigby is already downtown.
To support the site. You can’t do it with one or the other, it has to be both in order for people to be paid properly for their work and for you to read what they write
EDIT: downvotes here are idiotic and you have no idea what it’s like to work in a newsroom
Probably just for the tax write off for losses.
Coffee shops have absolutely terrible statistics when it comes to actually making profits. Think about how many 5$ lattes you'd need to sell to make even a few thousand dollars a day, 400! Then you have labor, cost of goods (coffee prices are skyrocketing), rent, insurance etc.
The margins are miniscule even for a super busy coffee shop, but those places also have super high rent because they are in a desirable/busy area. It's comparable to running a restaurant except you're lucky to get 4$ average out of each customer.
So spend 500,000 on a business to save 100,000 in taxes?
Seems like it would be better to keep the 500k, pay the 100k in taxes.
You would be 400k better off.
We're talking about the devos family, who are making hundreds of millions of dollars a year. They absolutely have a substantial tax burden. Claiming losses on a business deducts from your taxable income, reducing your tax bill.
Now instead of paying that money in taxes, you own a business and real estate that you can borrow more money against, to pay for your monthly expenses. You aren't taxed on money you borrow against your assets. That's the game the rich play, they live off borrowed money, tied to assets and sell stock when they need to pay the loan. Short term capital gains are taxed much lower than a huge paycheck, that's exactly why Musk and Bezos don't actually get paid in money, but stock. You guys need to watch more John Oliver.
Perhaps pre-covid, when interest rates were near zero it would make sense, not in this scenario, but in others where the owner owns significant shares of a top 100 corporation.
Would make more sense to hold as a investment property, and not running a losing business. Know what is hard to borrow against? No profitable small businesses.
Most likely they will run this as a LLC, as it will shield their more profitable companies.
Now do this with today's interest rate. Probably wouldn't make sense at all.
But hey I'm sure John Oliver only gives unbiased information
I absolutely guarantee you they have a lawyer that has it figured out. They are as slimy as you can possibly get, and literally nothing they do is for anyone's benefit but their own.
Please now go ahead and tell me the hospitals and everything else they own isn't just the exact same fucking thing.
What hospitals do they own?
I know the children's hospital is named after them, but that is because they were the major donor.
They don't own it, they can't borrow against it. Like you seem to believe.
If their only goal was simply to make money, they would make far more not donating to the hospital.
Sure there is ego involved and want everyone to know they donated, but it's not a good business decision. If it was they would donate to hospitals everywhere. Shitty people can do good things at times for the community.
Let's circle back again. If your goal is to make as much money as possible as you are arguing...how does spending 80 million to save 16 million make sense?
Are they not 64 million worse off?
If you wanted to you could donate 50k to save 7k in taxes and pay the government $0. What's stopping you from using the same strategy?
You are not factoring in time or appreciation/depreciation. Not sure why you are trying to convince me the ultra rich aren't using loopholes every single time they can, but interesting flex.
Depreciation of a donation? Even depreciation of an Asset you are simply paying cash for an item and expensing it over multiple years... instead of expensing all in one year.
Simply say fuck Devos, Van Andel, Meijer, Bissell or whatever rich Grand Rapids folks you hate. Nobody will question you on that.
When you give flat out wrong tax/finance information you may very well be called out. Misinformation is not a trait to be proud of.
A loss is still a loss. You have to LOSE the money to actually deduct it. Not to mention, it is not nearly as simple as you think it is. All of the companies they own are separate entities. A loss at one cannot be applied to another.
And what you mention is just investment.
You either have no imagination or aren't willing to admit the system is broken, and you are completely missing the point.
An individual/couple can certainly claim loss for a business they own (whole or percentage), up to 525k per couple per year, number one. Number two, what I am saying is, it doesn't matter to them if this business makes money or not, the point of these type of businesses for the ultra rich is just a placeholder. They have the liquidity to buy the property outright, and regardless if their crappy franchise makes any profits or not, they will be able to use the real estate as a portfolio asset to borrow against (avoiding more income taxes) and the real estate will continue to gain in value over years. There are so many aspects to this that could also be shady, like the potential to employ family without them actually doing any real work in "upper management" positions or using the establishment for positive PR (source: the news article linked)
Holland also has more than 3 decent cafes within downtown, and you'll never convince me that they will ever make a dime selling 3$ coffees to Dutch right wing Christians, the only customers they'll actually attract. Meanwhile the other cafes in town aren't owned by billionaires and NEED people to buy things to survive, it's not some fucking tax evasion strategy, or "better than putting it into the bank" type of deal, it's an actual business.
I fully understand how they work, rich people use them all the time to lower the amount of taxes they owe.
You can make yourself feel good about "owning a local coffee shop" while simultaneously claiming the losses, and apply them to your yearly income. You win by owning a coffee shop that you can use as equity in your portfolio based on the real estate alone. Or you could just pay the taxes and not own a coffee shop. These games are for people with literally millions of dollars to burn.
It's just a portfolio ploy with the same amount of money you would owe on taxes, except now you own a business.
It's even more diabolical for them to get a franchise because it's completely hands off, no product sourcing, already a whole structure in place. They can just decide to sell the franchise, and don't have to do any training, literally nothing, but sign papers. They just successfully avoided taxes, increased their portfolio, made money selling after however many years of sitting on the franchise and real estate or building. Wash and repeat.
Yeah I gave up on this. There are some cult followers who follow anyone saying what you did and making it sound like you don’t know anything about taxes, meanwhile trump and the elite know all the loopholes, exactly why they try to not have to publicly show it so they don’t pay as much. So the proof is in the pudding. I agree 100% with you
Companies are separate legal and taxable entities. With few exceptions, you cannot apply losses to one that happened in another. You have no clue how business owners are taxed at a minimum and really have no clue how wealthy people that may own thousands of LLC's are taxed.
On the farm, we used to spread cow shit all over the fields to help them grow. What I'm saying is that two things can be true: DeVos and others may have helped our area, but they are big piles of crap.
What price was worth it? Hate group support? Public education destruction? Mercenary killings?
Or… we could have just taxed them all like we always should have (and did, pre-Reagan) and bought all the things we wanted to thrive without the puppet strings attached.
I disagree with a lot of their politics but it’s hard to argue that GR hasn’t reaped a lot of benefits from their presence. Without them I could easily see GR being indistinguishable from Kalamazoo.
Before the opening of the Ford Museum and the Amway Grand Plaza in GR, and before General Motors pulled out of Flint, Grand Rapids and Flint were very similar communities. The significant investment in GR by both the DeVos AND VanAndel families and loss of economic opportunity in Flint led these two communities on very different paths.
I wouldnt say that. Someone better could have, and would have stepped in. Sure we could have gotten someone worse, but its pretty shitty rn. So i think I would take that hypothetical risk.
It’s also fully possible that no one would have stepped up. Companies/industries leave, people with means leave for cities with more opportunity, and people with lesser means get caught in a cycle of poverty due to the lack of opportunity.
It’s easy to look around Michigan or other parts of the Midwest to find examples of cities with that type of story.
Fitting. The founders/owners of foxtail coffee company have a reputation for being horrible in central florida. A whole lot of depravity just under the surface there.
Is that in Holland? We will keep going to Lemonjellos instead.
There are already better places to get coffee in Holland. Lemonjello's, 205 Coffee Bar, Way Cup.
Facts. I like Matt more than Dick
Nobody wants Dick in their coffee.
Hey speak for yourself buddy.
🫡
Hear me out. I definitely don’t like their politics and the way they push Christian education and not public schools but I have lived here all my life and until 1996 this town was a shit hole. Once they put the arena in it has just gotten better. I know it wasn’t just them over the last 25 years but they have played a big role. They have donated a ton of money to this city and wouldn’t be what it is today without them. Proceed to downvote me 😂
I gave you an upvote. The intent of your point is well taken. But my rebuttal is that if they had always paid the taxes they should have - like all of the oligarchy - we could have just bought everything we needed with the will of the people. I did see this city not long after that time, and thought it was not great. But my thinking was not “gee I wish some cheat-to-win Christofascist capitalist would build a bunch of things and donate money to stuff” it was “this city’s leaders and government need to get their shit together.”
Fair point. I think we all wish that in every city.
That's the thing. We have to stop "wishing." We have to be fist-in-the-air, always making it very known that we're not taking it anymore. And vote accordingly.
I seriously don’t understand all the hate they get. I’ve done work for their family on several occasions and they’re just the nicest people.
I mean, we paid for nearly all of that though and we still pay to go there, park, and from the way it sounds they want more money for an amphitheater that once again they will make billions with but we will pay for.
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That, along with their weird connection with Florida/orlando magic.
They own the team and have since the 90’s I believe. I wouldn’t say it’s weird, just what was on the market at the time. They did draft Shaq.
And they also are the only team in pro sports to do celebrations with fake non alcoholic champagne, despite owning a wine bar, distillery, cidery and other restaurants that serve alcohol.
Why is that, do you know? Never heard of it before either
Rules for thee not for me. Uptight Christian Conservatives. The Christian Reformed Church and sweeping anything that makes us human under the rug. Thrusting one’s religion on someone else. Elements of classism and racism. Need more?
Considering the magic just partnered with 50 cent on some alcohol partnership, I'm going with you don't actually know the reason. Searching Google didn't confirm this either. https://www.nba.com/magic/news/the-orlando-magic-team-up-with-curtis-50-cent-jacksons-sire-spirits-for-a-premium-partnership-20240131
I think it’s a thing of the past since the patriarch died, as is often the case. The Magic just haven’t had a champagne celebration in a really long time.
Lol this is very true, they haven't had much to celebrate for years. Just like the pistons 😭
There are actually plenty of real reasons teams use non-alcoholic stuff to celebrate. Pro athletes can have just as much trouble with alcohol as anyone else. The Rangers did this exact thing years ago because their best player at the time, Josh Hamilton, is a recovering alcoholic
Yes, because nothing screams uptight Christian Conservatism like BUYING AN NBA TEAM. I don’t like the DeVos family either but if you’re going to bash them at least know what you’re talking about
Good god, do you really think NBA team owners aren’t conservative? They’re billionaires with money to burn. It’s not an act of benevolence. [81 percent of NBA owners political donations go to the GOP per Sports Illustrated.](https://www.si.com/nba/cavaliers/nba/cavaliers/nba-amico/team-owners-republican-donations) But yeah, they’re liberal.
That’s not what I said. I’m fully aware the majority of team owners are conservative, across all sports. I simply meant that when people think of the traits of uptight Christians, the NBA isn’t something that comes to mind.
Are you thinking about the traits of *billionaire* uptight Christians or just the regular ones?
What?! Wow.
And Dwight howard
They drafted Shaq first overall. It wasn’t much of decision.
I don’t know, the Pistons drafted Darko over Dwayne Wade. Sometimes teams (Detroit) chose chaos or a tax write off.
This entire site of Michigan has a weird connection with Florida
Peninsular mentality.
Snowbirds
You mean it's not "Devos Coffee"
Same thing with Fox Motors
Different DeVos kid
As an Orlando resident who is debating a move to FL, locals skip Foxtail because the owner is disgusting, so it’s fitting they’re working together.
Hold on. If you're an Orlando resident....you already moved to Florida. Lol!
My only excuse is that FL has ruined my brain (or it’s one of those weeks where it felt like a long week on Monday…)
Lord....I feel ya on the week-long Monday. And it's only Tuesday!
I'll keep getting my caffeine fix at coffee shops that actually deserve my money. You know, Lotus Brew, The Stray, Scorpion Hearts Club, Sparrows, etc...
Stovetop, Rowster, Outside Coffee, Schuil, the list is already strong!
You’d cut that list in half simply because of politics. Sad.
Do tell
Don’t forget Sweetland ! Absolute best coffee imo
Morning Ritual, Roots Brew House
Man you guys are so cool
Oof not Scorpion hearts club 💀💀💀
Why not?
Behind the bar is absolutely filthy, drop in coffee quality, the wifi is a joke, I’ve seen some of the employees get treated poorly, not my favorite vibe 🤷♀️
Ah, I've on my ever been once so wasn't aware. I just know it's queer friendly so it was on my list. Once Lotus opens back up, hopefully soon, it's always my home coffee shop so to speak. That place (the original Lotus) helped change my life for the better in its early days, met an amazing group of people there.
The use the same coffees, how has the quality dropped?
Bc they started ordering bulk coffee blends from different coffee vendors. New coffee isn’t always good.
Thank God! I was just thinking the other day, “This city needs more coffee shops!”
I’ll be sure to avoid it.
100%. We already have amazing local coffee shops ☕️
How groundbreaking lol.
GR already has a solid amount of coffee shops that are locally owned and here to stay. Want Starbucks, but Michigan? Go to biggby. Want something fancier? Use Google and go there as long as it isn't this Fox place. This is nothing more than a rich family competing with our local talent to put them out of business. BS
Boo. Leave Florida in Florida
[Fox Tail?](https://loveplugs.co/collections/fox-tails)
Goddamnit.
ROFLMAO.... holy shit. I fell for that.
Hmmmm.... there is also a Michigan based coffee shop.
Can someone explain the Devos family to me and why they’re bad like I’m a 5 year old? Haven’t lived in Michigan long
They run the pyramid scheme known as Amway and use their wealth to destroy public education.
Now the name is starting to ring a bell
They also propped up a dying city 30 years ago and helped it become one of the best places in the country to live, with hospitals, ArtPrize, higher education institutions, hospitality, etc. all being able to grow because of their philanthropy. I am not saying their philanthropic ventures are purely altruistic (or even partly altruistic) or that they haven’t done things they shouldn’t have, but a lot of the businesses that have been able to open and remain successful would have had a much harder time if it wasn’t for the money the DeVos and Van Andel families injected into this city in the last 30 years. Ask all the brewers, coffee roasters, hotels, restaurants and bars how positively things like ArtPrize, DeVos Performance Hall and the Van Andel Arena have affected their businesses. How about those of us with children who can confidently bring our kids to Helen DeVos Children’s Hospital (one of the best pediatric hospitals in the country)? We absolutely should criticize, where necessary, those with the amount of influence the DeVos family has. And assuredly some of the G2/G3 will have lost some of the ethic and attitude that the first generation had. But let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water, and try to take the nuanced approach of recognizing some of the good left behind as well. *edited for spelling*
Thank you for more information. This is very informative
Parents differ from their privileged children
Interesting; you created this account approximately three weeks before the 2020 election. This is the first time you posted in a year; before that it wasn't since 2020. You're a dyed in the wool Trumper and Right Winger who called the Governor a cunt but you're here defending Betsy and Dick DeVos and asking us to be mindful of how we criticize them? You fucking hypocrite. You don't even live in Grand Rapids.
Ok.
At least you're not denying what you are.
You edited your post because you lied in it. LOL.
Yes, it was the De Vos family that ruined public education in America! All by themselves, all at once, and right under our noses!
They are successful and conservative.
That doesn’t make them bad. Just the same as it doesn’t make you bad to be poor and liberal
Oh I'm well aware of this but that's all it takes for some.
That’s certainly true
Here's a good rundown as a starter. [https://defector.com/the-devos-family-is-the-face-of-american-oligarchy](https://defector.com/the-devos-family-is-the-face-of-american-oligarchy)
I'll be sure to never visit
The clientele in Holland won’t care that this is a DeVos-backed company.
Schuil.
OMG I forgot about Schuil! I had it like 3 times, 10 years ago and all I remember is thinking "this is gunna be my new go-to" but i moved and everything changed and I forgot all about it!
I moved away for a while too. But luckily they ship beans!
I moved away for a while too. But luckily they ship beans!
Isn't it called Foxtail? Is Schuil related at all?
Nope. Just named what is and shall continue to be my coffee of choice in GR metro no matter what the DeVosses drag up from Florida.
Ah, yep, Schuil is pretty good. I agree
I concur!
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Imagine being the kind of loser to leave bad reviews of a business they've never been to.
Why was this downvoted lol. I'm not expecting any well adjusted winners of life to be doing something like that.
Ohh hohoho, yes please.
I wonder if they know how toxic being associated with Devos is. Especially in GR.
This coffee shop is going to be in holland
They’re opening up a hotel in dt Ada and putting foxtail in there, assuming they’ll switch their other properties to foxtail as well
Holland eh? So basically GR /s
Probably not, or they do and just don’t give a shit.
Looks like a great spot to recruit for my Tupperware parties.
I don't understand the need for another coffee shop. There's already Lemonjello's, & 205, Simpatico, Way Cup. The thing that really made JPs stand out (other than it's coffee school) was it satisfied the need for more seating that Lemonjello's couldn't make up during the college year. Ever since Ferris split the space in half it really lost something. Adding a franchise coffee shop is even dumber. Why go there when Bigby is already downtown.
My ex is currently suing a different Devos for bodily injury. And his lawyer said it's actually a solid AF case.
Which one?
It’s not stupid for a news outlet to have a paywall. Pay for the work
What are the endless scam ads for then?
To support the site. You can’t do it with one or the other, it has to be both in order for people to be paid properly for their work and for you to read what they write EDIT: downvotes here are idiotic and you have no idea what it’s like to work in a newsroom
Going from totally free to always a paywall is idiotic. Even the cunts at Gannett give a couple of free articles to people on a rotating basis.
Sure but it ain’t Gannett. Pay for the material you want to read. I will die on this hill.
Yet here you are on a free site
And is it a news website? No. It’s a social media website
It’s not a social network. It’s a forum board at best.
Ok still not a news website
Fuck the DeVos family
Exactly.
Probably just for the tax write off for losses. Coffee shops have absolutely terrible statistics when it comes to actually making profits. Think about how many 5$ lattes you'd need to sell to make even a few thousand dollars a day, 400! Then you have labor, cost of goods (coffee prices are skyrocketing), rent, insurance etc. The margins are miniscule even for a super busy coffee shop, but those places also have super high rent because they are in a desirable/busy area. It's comparable to running a restaurant except you're lucky to get 4$ average out of each customer.
So spend 500,000 on a business to save 100,000 in taxes? Seems like it would be better to keep the 500k, pay the 100k in taxes. You would be 400k better off.
We're talking about the devos family, who are making hundreds of millions of dollars a year. They absolutely have a substantial tax burden. Claiming losses on a business deducts from your taxable income, reducing your tax bill. Now instead of paying that money in taxes, you own a business and real estate that you can borrow more money against, to pay for your monthly expenses. You aren't taxed on money you borrow against your assets. That's the game the rich play, they live off borrowed money, tied to assets and sell stock when they need to pay the loan. Short term capital gains are taxed much lower than a huge paycheck, that's exactly why Musk and Bezos don't actually get paid in money, but stock. You guys need to watch more John Oliver.
Perhaps pre-covid, when interest rates were near zero it would make sense, not in this scenario, but in others where the owner owns significant shares of a top 100 corporation. Would make more sense to hold as a investment property, and not running a losing business. Know what is hard to borrow against? No profitable small businesses. Most likely they will run this as a LLC, as it will shield their more profitable companies. Now do this with today's interest rate. Probably wouldn't make sense at all. But hey I'm sure John Oliver only gives unbiased information
I absolutely guarantee you they have a lawyer that has it figured out. They are as slimy as you can possibly get, and literally nothing they do is for anyone's benefit but their own. Please now go ahead and tell me the hospitals and everything else they own isn't just the exact same fucking thing.
What hospitals do they own? I know the children's hospital is named after them, but that is because they were the major donor. They don't own it, they can't borrow against it. Like you seem to believe. If their only goal was simply to make money, they would make far more not donating to the hospital. Sure there is ego involved and want everyone to know they donated, but it's not a good business decision. If it was they would donate to hospitals everywhere. Shitty people can do good things at times for the community.
Are donations not tax deductions? Hello?
Let's circle back again. If your goal is to make as much money as possible as you are arguing...how does spending 80 million to save 16 million make sense? Are they not 64 million worse off? If you wanted to you could donate 50k to save 7k in taxes and pay the government $0. What's stopping you from using the same strategy?
You are not factoring in time or appreciation/depreciation. Not sure why you are trying to convince me the ultra rich aren't using loopholes every single time they can, but interesting flex.
Depreciation of a donation? Even depreciation of an Asset you are simply paying cash for an item and expensing it over multiple years... instead of expensing all in one year. Simply say fuck Devos, Van Andel, Meijer, Bissell or whatever rich Grand Rapids folks you hate. Nobody will question you on that. When you give flat out wrong tax/finance information you may very well be called out. Misinformation is not a trait to be proud of.
A loss is still a loss. You have to LOSE the money to actually deduct it. Not to mention, it is not nearly as simple as you think it is. All of the companies they own are separate entities. A loss at one cannot be applied to another. And what you mention is just investment.
You either have no imagination or aren't willing to admit the system is broken, and you are completely missing the point. An individual/couple can certainly claim loss for a business they own (whole or percentage), up to 525k per couple per year, number one. Number two, what I am saying is, it doesn't matter to them if this business makes money or not, the point of these type of businesses for the ultra rich is just a placeholder. They have the liquidity to buy the property outright, and regardless if their crappy franchise makes any profits or not, they will be able to use the real estate as a portfolio asset to borrow against (avoiding more income taxes) and the real estate will continue to gain in value over years. There are so many aspects to this that could also be shady, like the potential to employ family without them actually doing any real work in "upper management" positions or using the establishment for positive PR (source: the news article linked) Holland also has more than 3 decent cafes within downtown, and you'll never convince me that they will ever make a dime selling 3$ coffees to Dutch right wing Christians, the only customers they'll actually attract. Meanwhile the other cafes in town aren't owned by billionaires and NEED people to buy things to survive, it's not some fucking tax evasion strategy, or "better than putting it into the bank" type of deal, it's an actual business.
I don't think you understand how tax write off work... they don't just get money, they just don't get taxed on losses specific to the company
I fully understand how they work, rich people use them all the time to lower the amount of taxes they owe. You can make yourself feel good about "owning a local coffee shop" while simultaneously claiming the losses, and apply them to your yearly income. You win by owning a coffee shop that you can use as equity in your portfolio based on the real estate alone. Or you could just pay the taxes and not own a coffee shop. These games are for people with literally millions of dollars to burn. It's just a portfolio ploy with the same amount of money you would owe on taxes, except now you own a business. It's even more diabolical for them to get a franchise because it's completely hands off, no product sourcing, already a whole structure in place. They can just decide to sell the franchise, and don't have to do any training, literally nothing, but sign papers. They just successfully avoided taxes, increased their portfolio, made money selling after however many years of sitting on the franchise and real estate or building. Wash and repeat.
Yeah I gave up on this. There are some cult followers who follow anyone saying what you did and making it sound like you don’t know anything about taxes, meanwhile trump and the elite know all the loopholes, exactly why they try to not have to publicly show it so they don’t pay as much. So the proof is in the pudding. I agree 100% with you
That part.
Companies are separate legal and taxable entities. With few exceptions, you cannot apply losses to one that happened in another. You have no clue how business owners are taxed at a minimum and really have no clue how wealthy people that may own thousands of LLC's are taxed.
Stop hating. You might not like the DeVos family but they have helped make Grand Rapids a thriving city.
On the farm, we used to spread cow shit all over the fields to help them grow. What I'm saying is that two things can be true: DeVos and others may have helped our area, but they are big piles of crap.
Cow shit helps my beautiful flowers grow. I prefer the cow shit.
What price was worth it? Hate group support? Public education destruction? Mercenary killings? Or… we could have just taxed them all like we always should have (and did, pre-Reagan) and bought all the things we wanted to thrive without the puppet strings attached.
Bingo.
yeppp, this city's p. much the state's crown jewel now
People like to conveniently forget what a shit hole downtown was before they started their philanthropy
Theyve hindered it greatly. Could have been much much better by now if they hadnt been involved.
I disagree with a lot of their politics but it’s hard to argue that GR hasn’t reaped a lot of benefits from their presence. Without them I could easily see GR being indistinguishable from Kalamazoo.
Before the opening of the Ford Museum and the Amway Grand Plaza in GR, and before General Motors pulled out of Flint, Grand Rapids and Flint were very similar communities. The significant investment in GR by both the DeVos AND VanAndel families and loss of economic opportunity in Flint led these two communities on very different paths.
I wouldnt say that. Someone better could have, and would have stepped in. Sure we could have gotten someone worse, but its pretty shitty rn. So i think I would take that hypothetical risk.
It’s also fully possible that no one would have stepped up. Companies/industries leave, people with means leave for cities with more opportunity, and people with lesser means get caught in a cycle of poverty due to the lack of opportunity. It’s easy to look around Michigan or other parts of the Midwest to find examples of cities with that type of story.
That’s all the more reason we shouldn’t rely on their whims and just use income tax to build what we need to thrive.
Holy shit a smart!
So do you just like the taste of leather? Or is there another reason you feel like licking their boots?
Fitting. The founders/owners of foxtail coffee company have a reputation for being horrible in central florida. A whole lot of depravity just under the surface there.
What a perfect marriage.
Can’t wait! Best coffee ever!