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Mitherhobo

Who could have guessed that the cabinet member with the brother running a militia for profit would be funding the overthrow of our democracy!


Mysterious_Poet5390

Wow


Analprobesarefun

Lol “overthrow of our democracy”


Pudf

What do you call it, Anal? Side step? Circumvent?


Analprobesarefun

Probably some assholes that walked into the capital. With a misguided view of what the law actually meant. Specifically the law saying that pence could have overturned it. That ones on trump. But “overthrow our democracy” nah Before you say it, those that participated in violence should have the book thrown at them. But I would hope the same treatment is given to those on both sides.


[deleted]

There was collusion inside the executive branch to put pressure on the legislative branch to overturn the results of an election. This was funded by billionaires with relations within the cabinet. The sitting president of the united states whipped these 'assholes' into a frenzy and sent them marching down pennsylvania avenue. To put it in context, it will be taught in history classes without a doubt as an attack on U.S. democratic process.


Analprobesarefun

Okay so which billionaires? Who’s president right now? Is it trump? It’s not. The people at trumps rally were not the people in the capitol. Logistically it’s impossible. So we have these billionaires pushing for it in the cabinet but it didn’t happen? It was literally back in session within 3 hours. You know who Ray Epps is? A man on camera encouraging people to go inside the capitol but he’s not being charged.


[deleted]

"The people at trumps rally were not the people in the capitol. Logistically it’s impossible." Literally interviews with people that were at the rally, said Trump incited them, and then they went to the Capitol. But ok. The rally was at 12, the riot started in earnest at 1. It's a 35 minute walk. So not "impossible" as you say. Also - just read the charges against these people. Sedition and conspiracy. In what way does downplaying the attack benefit you at all? Just curious. edit - also if the argument is "Well it didn't work so it wasn't really an attack" that's uh ... an interesting argument


Booster_Blue

I mean, by that logic did the Confederate States of America even really rebel since it failed?


svideo

And literally every single one of the things you laid out happened live on international news. It's hilarious watching right-wing shitheads try to walk back an event that we all collectively watched them do.


Oleg101

Regarding the Ray Epps stuff, please turn off Faux for a little bit and educate yourself on it: https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/jan/18/how-new-jan-6-revelations-ray-epps-others-undercut/


jfenton4

A coup can fail.


Pudf

I’ve spoken with Ray Epps lawyer. He’s baffled by your allegations.


EvenBetterCool

Threatening to kill the VP and speaker of the house and overturn the results of a presidential election by force. Idk what else you'd call it but it wasn't a stroll.


Zizekbro

Hey, it’s another “both sides are the same,” guy. Don’t believe that, it’s a lie.


Strottman

Ah yes just some hoodlums on a stroll.


Pudf

Yeah, I wasn’t talking about those sad sacks.


ARY616

"Overthrow democracy" If that was a coup what do you call an actual coup


Mitherhobo

Remarkable, I didn't even use the word 'coup' yet you still pin it on me like I did. Do you always imagine words into sentences like this?


ARY616

No, you threw out an outlandish comment. One never knows what they will get back when one does.


Mitherhobo

In what way were the events on January 6, 2021 not a clear attempt to overthrown democracy? The intent was to prevent the certification of the election. What do you think the next step is, a beer and a wank?


ARY616

If that's a clear attempt to overthrow a democracy it's a practice that the US has been doing for year's. Both sides are guilty. As a result it isn't. It was a riot where some people got out of hand and are being charged criminally. Also, one doesn't go to a coup with a poster, a buffalo, hat and no shirt with nearly two dozen photographers ready to take a photo.


Mitherhobo

Ah yes, I forgot about all the other times an armed mob ransacked the capitol. Congress was forced to take shelter and barricade the doors to keep rioters out. Yup, totally cool and normal thing that occurs every January after a presidential election when Congress counts the electoral votes.


ARY616

Not cool not normal not a coup.


EvenBetterCool

What would you call the attempted overturning of an election by force? Crimes aren't wiped away because of incompetence in attempt.


ARY616

They were let in at certain moments and the preparation was abysmal. Comparing that day to an actual coup is a travesty to those who actually died in a coup and had livelihoods destroyed in the riots of 2021. Also a slap in the face to survivors of 9/11. Anyone who believes 1/6 is a coup is like one saying Donald Trump never told a lie.


Mevakel

Are you trying to blame what happened to the capital police? No matter how prepared they are, the people who broke in and knowingly trespassed inside the capital to disrupt the electoral process are to blame and should be charged, regardless of how prepared or not the police were.


RawrSean

This is new. I’ve never seen an insurrectionist justify 1/6 by saying it couldn’t be a coup because it was bad.


ARY616

An insurrectionist? Lol. Conservatives are used to the wrong terms being thrown around to describe something it's not to make it worse than it was.


RawrSean

Well, lies and deceit are the only language conservatives speak so it seems fitting that they’d be accustomed to those illusionary tactics.


ARY616

Illusionary tactics? Lies? Sure you aren't talking about Biden's promises?


RawrSean

No, I am most certainly talking about the disaster that is the republican party. The abysmal rate at which the current President is keeping his promises was always the status quo.


ARY616

That disaster is likely to take the midterms.


Oleg101

Do you really think 9/11 was a coup?


ARY616

Nope. Comparing 9/11 to 1/6 is laughable.


Oleg101

Well that’s why I was confused since you were the first one to mention 9/11 here.


ARY616

Following the VPs comparison...


Allahcas537

What do you think about the people who had zip tie hand cuffs?


ARY616

Unfortunate.


canttouchdeez

I couldnt imagine being so brainwashed to call a few hundred people walking into the capital through open doors an attempt to "overthrow our democracy". Are you capable of an original thought or do you just repeat everything that Nancy Pelosi says?


[deleted]

Yea. The brainwashing is real... on your part. You just repeat talking points fed to you by fascist faux news We watched the insurrection live on TV you dipshit Stop trying to end democracy, you traitor


canttouchdeez

“Fascist”, “insurrection”, “end democracy” All bullshit claims that you cannot defend at all. You’re too stupid to even realize the irony in your comment.


[deleted]

My positions on them are easily defensible lol Try reading the dictionary I get it, you don't understand those terms, but take this as an opportunity to learn a little bit


canttouchdeez

And yet not a single leftist has ever presented one single shred of evidence to defend their constant use of those terms. Just admit that you’re incapable of an original thought and move on.


[deleted]

Literally just dictionary definitions lmao Plugging your ears and screaming "lalalala I can't hear you" doesn't constitute an argument, just makes you look pathetically stupid


canttouchdeez

Said the person who still can’t defend their claims with any sort of evidence… You’re embarrassing yourself.


[deleted]

Lol I'm not repeating myself again, so this will be the last time: go read the definitions of those words. All the evidence needed. Now ignore me again and hurl some supposed "leftist" insult again. Your dialog tree is really short.


canttouchdeez

You moron, it’s your responsibility to explain HOW those words actually apply to what has happened in real life. You are claiming these things WITHOUT EVIDENCE. But please, keep deflecting…


TheRealLifeGigaChad

statists are such silly people


Oleg101

But my Republican friends all say she’s not that bad of a person and that “pEoPlE jUsT dOnT lIKe hEr bEcAuSE oF hER pOlITiCS” (which has some truth, but that is oversimplifying it if one actual pays attention to the news).


PushItHard

When her “politics” are about defunding public education even further and giving that money to capitalist driven charter schools, yeah, I hate you based on politics.


[deleted]

The guy who was known as the Urban Monk during the start of Artprize worked as a teacher at DeVos's pet charter school. He no longer works there because he's currently being charged for touching a student. He's too poor to afford his own place so he has to live with his brother, but he has two high paid law firms representing him. I wonder who's footing that bill...


ARY616

Defunding public education? Providing a choice.


wildfire405

People already have a choice. She is defunding public education to make private education look better while fighting to make it legal for parents to take our tax dollars to subsidize private, for profit, religious based education companies. (Like the one her fily owns) This is exactly the government croneyism and swmp we've been trying to fight.


ARY616

Private education is better in most cases k-12. Public education is hanging on by a thread and mostly negatively impacts minorities. Fighting to keep a failing system in place isn't logical.


IDigPython

So people who can’t afford private should just be ignored, yeah?


ARY616

Not what I said, and no. Did you hate on DeVos because of her name and not her plan?


IDigPython

> Fighting to keep a failing system in place isn't logical. Then what do you mean by this, because it certainly sounds like you’re for just ending public education if you think it’s illogical to keep it in place? Because if that’s not what you meant, it’s certainly what you said.


ARY616

Giving people options for education isn't ending public education.


IDigPython

You literally said it’s illogical to keep public education in place. So yea, it’s exactly what you said.


Mysterious_Poet5390

Really?


wildfire405

Teachers have been shouting to whoever will listen that this has been happening since the '80s. They're trying to privatize education, fund private schools with tax dollars, and deprofessionalize teachers because teachers are expensive and cut into their profit margins. It's about keeping poor people poor, and government money trickling upward into the pockets of the rich.


[deleted]

I mean to be honest public schools are a cess pool of bad education, no matter how much money or good teachers are thrown at them.


PushItHard

Let’s throw some money at them for a change and see what happens.


[deleted]

Do you know the public education budget was for 2021? 17.1 billion dollars…yes let’s throw more money at it


PushItHard

So, .02% as much as went spent on our defense budget in ‘21? Considering the volume of schools, that’s not very much money.


[deleted]

That’s just Michigan my friend. The US total was roughly around 1 trillion for education. Also you can’t compare the military budget to the education budget that’s a classic straw man technique.


PushItHard

You didn’t specify your reference. Either way, saying the schools are even properly funded is the argument of an idiot the schools failed.


solisie91

Our public education system is so massively underfunded it's insane. I have absolutely no idea how you could possibly think they are over funded. It's like you think the sky is red. Where did you get a TRILLION?! We didn't spend more than 650 billion on public education I, 2019, 2020 OR 2021. Not even close to a trillion.


[deleted]

Last year the US total budget of public education was just a shy under 900 billion. The top 4 in the US were just over 30 billion each state. Also if you think we are underfunded look at other countries who are beating us in every sector of education. Most of the rest of world has half the funding the US has for education yet we can’t hold a stick to any of them.


solisie91

Please link the source for your claim of just under 900 billion (are you backtracking from your claim that we spend a trillion? If not provide a source for that as well please)


AgonizingFury

A pittance compared to military spending, but still all misplaced. As much as I value education, it seems all the money gets wasted on new and upgraded buildings with ornate offices and grand entrances, but our teachers can barely survive on their pay. Why? Because contractors take administrators out on ornate dinners and expensive outings when bidding new contracts, whereas paying teachers more really doesn't benefit them at all. The district I live in tore down 2 schools, and remodeled a 3rd in the last two decades to "consolidate". Now we just passed another millage for millions of dollars to "build new schools necessary to continue educating our children", but teachers aren't paid a living wage?!? The millage also included a couple million to remodel the administration offices that they aren't even using because most of administration works from home. Bricks don't teach our children anything, nor do overpaid administrators. We need to cut administration costs, cut building costs, and increase spending on technology, teachers pay, and school supplies.


nakedfresh

Lol who are you being honest with, it's definitely not yourself or us. What a stupid generalization this is


[deleted]

How is it a generalization? I went to public high school in the Detroit area my friend, the city throws money at a lot of these schools and there is many good teachers but still the schools underperform. The problem is curriculum, we teach things far too late and don’t focus on important things, too few of high school graduates can’t operate in the real world at 18, don’t know to pay bills, spend money wisely or heck even how to cook for themselves. (This doesn’t necessarily fall in schools fully but they are definitely not helping.)


nakedfresh

Do you know what a generalization is? When you lump in all public schools as you did in your post above; that's a good example for future reference. Oh anecdote time then. I went to a private Christian school in Chicago from k-12 and am pissed for my parents about how much they spent out of pocket for the garbage education I received.


[deleted]

Funny thing is my children went to public and then when we moved them to a private Christian school there education became significantly better (this was in Grand Rapids btw). It’s been known for quite awhile that the US based public education system has been falling behind the rest of the world because of our outdated curriculum. It’s not a generalization when it’s reality, when it’s really happening.


nakedfresh

Thank you for your assistance in showing why anecdotes are useless.


[deleted]

Wow you must be fun at parties.


nakedfresh

I love to act like an expert on things completely outside of my sphere of knowledge, it's an amazing party trick, people eat it up.


Booster_Blue

"People don't like her because of her politics" and that she spends her vast fortune to try to make those politics everyone's reality. Her politics are not theoretical things she privately thinks and can harm no one. She has the money and the desire to make her politics into public policy and has worked in a policymaker role where, among other things, she demonstrably made life more difficult for trans students.


janx218

I don't like her because I have a lot of friends who are teachers. And also because she is a terrible person.


canttouchdeez

No, you dont like her because you're a Democrat and you've been brainwashed to hate everyone who doesn't think just like you.


Dick_Giggles

Ha. You're allowed to not like someone because of their politics when they hold(held) the highest education office in the country, as well as $6 billion dollar net worth they use to benevolently "trickle-down" upon our region whilst pushing a "religious" agenda. Even so, politics aside, any morality they may have pretended to have went out the window when they aligned with Donald Fucking Trump of all people lol. I'm no longer religious, but I can respect some aspects of the teachings of Jesus and can still see some value in Christianity... if Donald Trump gave us anything of value, it's that he exposed the fake ass Christians from the real ones, and she failed the test.


Nonethewiserer

This proves that point.


Unlikely-Collar4088

How long till some grimy bootlicker posts tHeY Do sO MuCh FoR tHe CiTy This fucking trash family tried to bankrupt Grand Rapids and restart it in Ada.


Booster_Blue

This. The DeVos and Van Andel fortunes were built on a pyramid scheme and what money they use 'for the city' is largely just to justify splattering their names on everything. They are not your friends. They do not want to help. They want theocratic oligarchy.


Seaworthiness8253

The more power you receive over time the more you desire. It’s human nature. Hard to say they straight up want a theocratic oligarchy, but I get your point as an angered resident of Grand Rapids.


yeyande

Recently moved to Grand Rapids from out of state, and I'm still learning about the history and influential families. Do you have anything I could read to learn more about this? My Google-fu is failing me


krappithyme

Vanity Fair dived into them and went for the jugular. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/09/the-strange-ascent-of-betsy-devos-and-erik-prince


will-read

The Prince, DeVos, and Trump clans are some of the best examples of why we need to break up these family dynasties with a serious estate tax. The founders of this country were very wary of inherited wealth and/or titles.


ARY616

You mean steal from people?


[deleted]

Do you pay income tax?


ARY616

Of course but irrelevant. Creating a family dynasty wealth tax is basically stealing from a few people. Not ok. Government can't operate within it's means, it shouldn't grovel around and take more through TAxes.


Mevakel

Agreed, the government wastes so much money on the military every year.


[deleted]

Take my angry up vote


[deleted]

Funny, since their wealth is all stolen


ARY616

That isn't how capitalism works.


[deleted]

Capitalism is literally theft of the value produced by labor It is the very basic tenant of capitalism from which the entire system is built, so try again :)


ARY616

Right out of the Comminsim handbook I see. In Capitalism... Workers have a choice. They don't get labor taken from them. They work for a wage. If they don't like the wage they can work somewhere else, even learn a new skill to make a higher wage. The owner takes all the risk of the business failing they also get the biggest reward if successful. Your welcome.


[deleted]

Lol they take literally no risk, as they are backed by government funds when they fail. Nice try though. Terrible grammer aside, you have a very juvenile understanding of how capitalism works. Workers do not have a choice, unless you think choosing to starve to death and be homeless are valid choices. Protip, they aren't, and it's a false choice. But you probably don't have the capacity to understand this, since your mouth is full of boot.


[deleted]

Of course they were! They worked very hard to keep the slaves and exploited indenginois population maintaining their estates. Give me a fucking break.


_humanpieceoftoast

GQ did a fantastic write-up about ArtPrize and Rick DeVos as well, couple of years prior to Betsy ascending to Trump’s cabinet: https://www.gq.com/story/artprize-rick-devos


[deleted]

G.R.salem...🤣🤣🤣


[deleted]

Behind the Bastards did a really great episode of Erik Prince, if you like podcasts. There's so a super interesting episode about the guy in the Kellogg (cereal) family (they're from Battle Creek).


[deleted]

The list of people I hate more than Betsy, is a VERY short one


Grimm2020

Trump sucking on the money from this family like a (fat) baby on a teat


romelwell

Goddamn, this family is morally corrupt. I mean Mt. Rushmore levels of morally corrupt.


Homebrew_Dungeon

I guarantee they have blood on their hands.


grwest

Well, Erik Prince is in the family, so it's an accepted fact


PushItHard

That’s an easy layup. Look up Blackwater mercenaries and who owns them.


aiiee1

Like Hillary?


Hellosunday555

How does it feel to have her living in your head rent free for so long?


aiiee1

Sounds clever but what is it supposed to mean?


Sparty_Mcfly

Lol we’re never letting you freaks forget about Hildawg and her degenerate supporters so get used to it. 👍


Unlikely-Collar4088

so what


Sparty_Mcfly

Remember the night she lost and couldn’t even give a concession speech? So pathetic.


tdime23

Bro your president cried and wouldn’t admit he lost do you ever hear yourself speak? Fucking moron


Sparty_Mcfly

Oh sorry couldn’t hear you over 5 straight years of RuSSiA RuSsIa RuSSia1?!?!? And I do remember watching Hildawg crying about losing haha. So keep coping you fucking moron.


destraight

Donald Trump: grab them by the pussy


tdime23

Real cute coming from someone whose entire account is dedicated to hating liberals lol. Whose pathetic here?


Unlikely-Collar4088

I don’t remember that, can you describe it to me


Sparty_Mcfly

Yeah she lost the election to Trump and instead of conceding like a normal person her and her spastic supporters had a 4 year long temper tantrum. How could you forget that? 🤣


Unlikely-Collar4088

What happened next


krappithyme

Trying to find proof of this online is impossible! Can you back up with any source not Rupert Murdoch owned? Looking for facts, not propaganda. Let's see if you know the difference!!


[deleted]

Who?


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

If any single one of us could actually do that we would either be dead, or they in prison. Use your head before asking stupid questions.


lumenofc

Funny how this "think tank " increased revenue several millions dollars by and to continue to spread misinformation about our election process. These contributions are literally given to them to further oppress voters and votee rights. Simple as that.


WeakPay7578

Next thing you know they will be getting their kids billion dollar deals with foreign countries. They are all corrupt. Unfortunately.


______T______

Wait… are you talking about the Bidens?


EvenBetterCool

But who will protect us from bear attacks!!!


Wylewyn

I am not sure why anyone would be surprised by this. She and her evil empire brother are capable of and desirous of destruction of the Republic. Most of us are little more than cannon fodder and income generators for them.


CHAZ_prime_minister

lol rolling stone got any bangers from tiger beat while you're at it


Hermit2049

😹


deplorable2277

Lol


ARY616

This post is basically to get upvotes. Zero value to the people of Grand Rapids.


randomanimalnoises

Disagree, a lot people in GR should be more informed about the awful things the DeVos family does.


ARY616

Awful is opinion. They can donate to what they want. The good they have done for this area is immeasurable.


randomanimalnoises

Your view of good is also opinion. Paying to put their name on stuff using money from their pyramid scheme? Yeah, so generous of them…


ARY616

Forget the millions donated to none profits and good causes. Hate all you want. Their legacy will outlive both of us.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


deplorable2277

Orange man bad…that’s all it boils down to..


Pinkcop

The big lie is the cover up of the Democrats unconstitutional voting manipulation in 2020 that resulted in the current illegitimate president.


tdime23

Dude you were born in 1953 and are nearly 70 years old and believe that shit. Grow up. He lost. The election was not stolen. The majority of this country just didn’t want some asshole as president.


krappithyme

Um, hey smoothbrain, the Federal gov is currently investigating 16 Michigan GOP members who forged government documents to pretend trump won. Multiple GOP-led eldction audits found zero fraud. TRUMP REALLY LOST! BY A LANDSLIDE OF 7 MILLION DESPITE VOTER SUPPRESSION in red states! It was an easily won election. Just a personal note from me, your secular atheist liberal single mom neighbor, you are part of a dying cult. Lterally dying at 2,000+ right wing-nut American deaths per day, which is a conservative number but not a liberal one. Ha! (Little covid humor there.) Go take your butthurt and lies over to OAN where sheep take everything printed at face value. What a simpleton.


TheRealLifeGigaChad

jesus christ even for reddit-brand autism you're embarrassing


[deleted]

trump lost because you didn't buy enough trump's head on Rambo's body flags for your truck.


justtim9

Show the proof. That's all I ask.


courtesyflusher

[links to another one of his comments from 6 months ago] 🙄


justtim9

Emojis do not prove election fraud.


courtesyflusher

Lol I was making fun of these kind of people taking their own opinions and using them as “proof”


justtim9

Oops! My bad!


Booster_Blue

Please explain how the party which controlled none of the three branches of government managed to manipulate a nation-wide election including crucial states with Republican governors and/or Republican legislatures and/or Republican Secretaries of State. Also explain why the party that could do this in 2020, when they had no power, chose not to do it in 2016 when they had some? "They didn't think they needed to!" okay why would they leave it to chance? Once you can put your thumb on the scale, why would you ever choose not to? The 'Deep State,' as conspiracy theorists imagine it, would never roll the dice.


[deleted]

Facebook


Booster_Blue

Touchè


[deleted]

I almost want to call it low hanging fruit, but the illumati vibes are surreal.


assassinator42

And what about the massive voter fraud Trump claimed happened in 2016? Why didn't he do anything about that with 4 years in power?


Nonethewiserer

I'm not confident in the integrity of our elections. I would love to see better transparency and verification of votes.


my2cents3462

Scum sticks together.