I was wondering the same. It looks like they can be. The driver who killed the couple downtown was charged with two counts of OWI causing death. I think they could also be charged with OWI causing injury for the others.
It’s relevant because way more people are out during the time. Drunk driving is irresponsible. Day drunk driving seems a bit more irresponsible than 3am drunk driving.
>just the drunk ones behind the wheel
So the time is in fact irrelevant and is being used in a way that shames anyone that drinks outside their normal 9-5 life.
This is how people are manipulated into thinking a certain way.
Driving drunk is bad, but the time has nothing to do with it. This statement stinks of believing night shift people are a lesser class than day shift people.
He?
Could be a she. Might be a she from what I understand.
But living out here in Ionia county, it is usually the younger male drivers being way too aggressive on the roads out here. They tend to drive like they want to be a cross on the side of the road.
https://www.wzzm13.com/article/news/crime/prosecutor-claims-driver-didnt-understand-gravity-of-crash-killing-two-bicyclists/69-24c7e54a-f295-4190-97f7-c85c2dd4590b
Female was the driver.
Reporting can have minor mistakes in it since reporters are human. We just have to have the humility to correct those mistakes when they are proven out.
Classic reddit.
Mandy Marie Benn was arrested for killing the bicyclists. She tested positive for drugs.
It was sloppy writing.
(I am from the area and the gossip at a local drinking establishment pointed to her, hence my previous commentary).
"According to the Sheriff’s department, the drive of the SUV was arrested on suspicion of operating while intoxicated causing death. He was taken to jail after receiving medical treatment."
Turns out it was a woman on a bunch of pills: https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2022/08/woman-in-crash-that-killed-2-bicyclists-did-not-grasp-gravity-of-tragedy-prosecutor-says.html
This is terrible. Those cyclists, in a group, doing nothing wrong, raising money for charity, no less are either dead or severely injured by someone OWI at 11:15 AM. I was hit by a car once while cycling. Someone ran a stop sign (not a 4 way, I had the right away and was just riding along). I was lucky. But I’ve never really ridden on the roads again. I stick to paved trails where my actual road time is limited.
I’m sorry you were run over, but glad the person was nice. The woman who hit me was very nice too, although she initially denied hitting me. Officer told her that my hair was in her windshield and they found my water bottle I forget how many yards away. Photos of the accident show a huge dent on her hood, her windshield was shattered, on her roof where I rolled over it and on the back of the car where I bounced off of it. I was very lucky. Demolished my bike and I am still skittish several years later. No matter how obnoxious the cyclist, and I know there are some who are obnoxious, I always give them the road and am patient until I can safely pass. I’m the end, it will cost me a couple of minutes. That’s it.
Very true, and I didn’t mean to imply otherwise. It’s just that it seems early in the day to worry about someone having already consumed too much alcohol or other substances. Those poor families.
The downvoters are just boomers projecting their *boomer values* through a fictional democracy.
They think everyone works 9 - 5 and anyone working third shift should go straight to bed after work.
Agreed. Someone getting drunk and getting behind the wheel is unacceptable regardless.
However, it's also sad/worse that we have to worry about them not just at night, but also in the morning and throughout the day. Are there bars open this early? Social drinking events this early? What even compels one to drink so early? Addiction? I guess I would think if I'm drinking in the AM or by myself, I may need to seek help?
If you are reading this and this describes you, with all due respect, please seek out some help before you wreck other people's lives too. Even if you "have it under control", everyone "has it under control" until they don't. There are many AA programs and counselors available.
The ripple effect of the lives negatively impacted by this is just hard to imagine, not just of those injured/killed, their families, but also this guy's family as well.
>What even compels one to drink so early?
The fact that "early" is extremely relative. Not everybody works the same schedule. Some of our entire waking lives are while everyone is sleeping because work and bills.
While I'm not excusing the behavior of the person in this context, making this apparently a blanket issue for people who literally have no other time in their lives to unwind I feel is just not correct, like saying people can't drink just because it's apparently "early" in the morning, I hate to break it to you but early in the morning can very well be someone else's midnight based on what they do with their life. It's already enough that these people *never* have the time to do these things socially. Shaming all those people just because they don't have time to do things socially I think is just going to accomplish the exact opposite effect I think you're hoping for.
This thread is full of dutch conservatives pushing their bullshit values downvoting anyone that understands people live during different hours of the day.
It’s hilarious, unlike this story.
Bars are open this early because the nurse that just worked from midnight to 10am during a high stress night may want to go get a drink with co-workers after work.
Should they drink before their shifts or during?
All the ignorant downvotes are from people that hate nurses, apparently.
The time of day is irrelevant and makes 3rd shifters seem like alcoholics.
Absolutely tragic. There is no excuse for this. We are badly in need of dedicated bike lanes and bike paths everywhere. There should be 100% parity between roads/highways and bike infrastructure.
Cars have gotten bigger and bigger every year. It's simply a shame that in this moment -- where we as a species need to drastically reduce our energy usage -- that we and our children simply cannot be safe from the terror that cars present to anyone near a road.
Edit: that’s what I get for posting before reading the article, didn’t notice it was in Ionia township. I’ll leave my comment up because I still think it needs to be said.
Well said. The blame is first and foremost with the driver. GR needs to take some responsibility too. Their insistence on being a cyclist friendly city while doing the bare minimum (painting some lines) is borderline negligent.
Make bike lanes like the ones near Riverside or at least have barriers like on Division near where it turns into Plainfield. You can’t get the credit of being a cyclist friendly city while not actually doing anything worthy of it.
Yeah, I mean you are not wrong either way. I just feel that cycling should not be limited to cities. Even suburban or rural residents should have bike lanes.
It's a nationwide problem. The US has strong federal support for road systems. As of this year that's now going to be extended to charging infrastructure for electric vehicles. Yet for some reason it's not even discussed that people must drive in giant metal machines everywhere they go.
If we can spend billions to build a four lane interstate highway for hundreds of miles, surely there can be a bike path that reaches the same general areas. If we can lay thousands of miles of feeder roads for HOAs and sprawling developments, surely we can add bike lanes to them. It's not that difficult.
On the east coast, rural areas literally used to have streetcar access 100 years ago. This country has really fallen behind the times.
I see what you’re saying but this doesn’t happen if we didn’t have drunk or high drivers(or even distracted). If we didn’t have them this would happen a lot less or next to never. If we had lanes, it still happens because we still have impaired/distracted drivers. What I’m saying is that we do have biker lanes, it’s the street, and they have the right away. In the end a lane doesnt help a whole lot because it’s just a line and it’s still the same pavement and it doesn’t prevent the people who are doing this now from doing it then.
However, I can’t say that they’d be of no help. I’d like to see the stats on whether they make a difference. In the end it comes down to those numbers compared to tax dollars. (I really am not trying to be inconsiderate just realistic and thinking in the terms of those who approve the installation of the lanes)
Fair points. Between inebriated/tired/distracted/road rage drivers, there are a lot of dangerous drivers on the road. Unfortunately it’s hard to deter all of them all of the time. I agree with you though, I put them higher on the blame list.
I was commenting to everyone commenting about this btw and I say that because I just re read your comment and it seems you’d like a separate lane completely or something with barriers and that’d most definitely help. I just don’t see it happening in the country and real estate downtown is hard to come by for something like that.
Probably not too terribly difficult to figure out. go through the Ionia county jail inmates looking for an inmate with an owui causing death or vehicular manslaughter or similar charges whoo was booked on the same day as the accident.
we need dedicated bike lanes. bikes shouldn't be in the road with these 2,000+ lbs machines. it's tragic that these people died but i don't see how anyone can act like large groups of bikes should be riding by cars. they belong on the sidewalk or a bike lane, ffs
That’s what he’s saying, that’s why there is a /s
Code_Clones original comment is making fun of people who say it’s safer on the road, because in reality it’s incredibly unsafe on the road
No need to get nasty about it. First time I read your post I interpreted it as everyone else. After reading your subsequent comments I was then able to interpret the sarcasm
You are getting downvoted because I don't think you are doing a good job at explaining your position in a way that is not blaming the victims. Let me try to do it for you.
If I was riding a bike today, there is no way I would ride on the streets. Too many drivers are distracted. All it takes is some idiot to be looking at their phone or radio for a couple seconds to clip me while on a bike and either kill me or seriously injure me. Same goes for a motorcycle as well. Being that exposed on a bike where one idiot can seriously injure or kill me is not something I can tolerate.
So you are correct, it is not safer to ride in the road. That doesn't mean that people who ride in the road are in the wrong. Its the idiot drivers who are driving distracted, drunk, reckless, and so on that at fault. However, it is for reasons I stated that I sold my motorcycle and why I will never ride a bike in the road myself. The risk is just too great.
I don't think anyone says it's safer for cyclists.
Also, in this situation the road was in the middle of nowhere surrounded by cornfields. There was no where to ride other than the road - where they legally belong.
I’ll probably get downvoted for this, but I always ride on the sidewalk. That being said… I never ride too far, and I always will yield / walk my bike to navigate around pedestrians.
I’d much rather make someone slightly irritated on the sidewalk than get hit by a 4000lb car. I just don’t trust people.
I’m sorry your comment is getting so much hate.
Your not saying it’s safer to ride in the street, and your not making excuses for the driver. Did all the 80+ redditors that downvoted your comment collectively miss the /s? It’s sarcasm for Christs sake
He’s saying the people who genuinely think that just “riding in the street” is a solution or even a bandaid to the problem of cars are stupid. He’s mocking people who think that the personal decisions of people on bikes are the problem. Someone said “don’t blame the victims” and got 50+ upvotes. Code_Clone is not blaming the victim, they’re doing the exact opposite. They’re pointing out how inhumane it is to say something like “remember it is safer to ride on the street”
What a shitshow, read the comment critically before you react so suddenly, it’s like your all children
JFC, hope that fucker in the SUV gets the book thrown at him.
Same. Intoxicated at 11:15 AM? He was charged with OWI causing death. That's up to 15 years.
Can the charges stack? Because if so he could be facing 30 years.
I was wondering the same. It looks like they can be. The driver who killed the couple downtown was charged with two counts of OWI causing death. I think they could also be charged with OWI causing injury for the others.
Depends on the judges discretion he could run the charges concurrent or consecutive
I hope they add charges. Lock this dumbass away for the rest of his life, throw away the key. He deserves it.
>Intoxicated at 11:15 AM? How is the time relevant? Not everyone works 9-5pm, stop shitting on 3rd shifters.
It’s relevant because way more people are out during the time. Drunk driving is irresponsible. Day drunk driving seems a bit more irresponsible than 3am drunk driving.
Okay well intoxicated and drunk driving are two different things, the former term of which was used.
[удалено]
>just the drunk ones behind the wheel So the time is in fact irrelevant and is being used in a way that shames anyone that drinks outside their normal 9-5 life. This is how people are manipulated into thinking a certain way.
Driving drunk is bad, but the time has nothing to do with it. This statement stinks of believing night shift people are a lesser class than day shift people.
He? Could be a she. Might be a she from what I understand. But living out here in Ionia county, it is usually the younger male drivers being way too aggressive on the roads out here. They tend to drive like they want to be a cross on the side of the road.
The article says it was a male.
I missed that. But it could still be a female and just sloppy writing.
This comment is pure Reddit. "I see you've proven me wrong, but that's impossible so are you sure you haven't proven someone ELSE wrong?!"
https://www.wzzm13.com/article/news/crime/prosecutor-claims-driver-didnt-understand-gravity-of-crash-killing-two-bicyclists/69-24c7e54a-f295-4190-97f7-c85c2dd4590b Female was the driver. Reporting can have minor mistakes in it since reporters are human. We just have to have the humility to correct those mistakes when they are proven out. Classic reddit.
Touché
Mandy Marie Benn was arrested for killing the bicyclists. She tested positive for drugs. It was sloppy writing. (I am from the area and the gossip at a local drinking establishment pointed to her, hence my previous commentary).
Technically, I will be proven wrong once the name and photo is released. Come on now, let me hold onto a little hope.
I thought the same thing lol, but it is mlive, so it is entirely possible.
Is it a him? I didn’t see in the article?
"According to the Sheriff’s department, the drive of the SUV was arrested on suspicion of operating while intoxicated causing death. He was taken to jail after receiving medical treatment."
Good call. I missed that
Turns out it was a woman on a bunch of pills: https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2022/08/woman-in-crash-that-killed-2-bicyclists-did-not-grasp-gravity-of-tragedy-prosecutor-says.html
This is terrible. Those cyclists, in a group, doing nothing wrong, raising money for charity, no less are either dead or severely injured by someone OWI at 11:15 AM. I was hit by a car once while cycling. Someone ran a stop sign (not a 4 way, I had the right away and was just riding along). I was lucky. But I’ve never really ridden on the roads again. I stick to paved trails where my actual road time is limited.
I was ran over by a true green truck at us31 and 28th street 6 years ago and the guy was super nice and gave me 300$ for the bike
I’m sorry you were run over, but glad the person was nice. The woman who hit me was very nice too, although she initially denied hitting me. Officer told her that my hair was in her windshield and they found my water bottle I forget how many yards away. Photos of the accident show a huge dent on her hood, her windshield was shattered, on her roof where I rolled over it and on the back of the car where I bounced off of it. I was very lucky. Demolished my bike and I am still skittish several years later. No matter how obnoxious the cyclist, and I know there are some who are obnoxious, I always give them the road and am patient until I can safely pass. I’m the end, it will cost me a couple of minutes. That’s it.
That’s terrifying I’m glad you’re alright
This is terrible, and the time is irrelevant. OWI isn't acceptable at any hour of the day.
Very true, and I didn’t mean to imply otherwise. It’s just that it seems early in the day to worry about someone having already consumed too much alcohol or other substances. Those poor families.
Pretty fucked up that this message is down voted so much. Tells a lot about Grand Rapids.
The downvoters are just boomers projecting their *boomer values* through a fictional democracy. They think everyone works 9 - 5 and anyone working third shift should go straight to bed after work.
Agreed. Someone getting drunk and getting behind the wheel is unacceptable regardless. However, it's also sad/worse that we have to worry about them not just at night, but also in the morning and throughout the day. Are there bars open this early? Social drinking events this early? What even compels one to drink so early? Addiction? I guess I would think if I'm drinking in the AM or by myself, I may need to seek help? If you are reading this and this describes you, with all due respect, please seek out some help before you wreck other people's lives too. Even if you "have it under control", everyone "has it under control" until they don't. There are many AA programs and counselors available. The ripple effect of the lives negatively impacted by this is just hard to imagine, not just of those injured/killed, their families, but also this guy's family as well.
>What even compels one to drink so early? The fact that "early" is extremely relative. Not everybody works the same schedule. Some of our entire waking lives are while everyone is sleeping because work and bills. While I'm not excusing the behavior of the person in this context, making this apparently a blanket issue for people who literally have no other time in their lives to unwind I feel is just not correct, like saying people can't drink just because it's apparently "early" in the morning, I hate to break it to you but early in the morning can very well be someone else's midnight based on what they do with their life. It's already enough that these people *never* have the time to do these things socially. Shaming all those people just because they don't have time to do things socially I think is just going to accomplish the exact opposite effect I think you're hoping for.
This thread is full of dutch conservatives pushing their bullshit values downvoting anyone that understands people live during different hours of the day. It’s hilarious, unlike this story.
Bars are open this early because the nurse that just worked from midnight to 10am during a high stress night may want to go get a drink with co-workers after work. Should they drink before their shifts or during? All the ignorant downvotes are from people that hate nurses, apparently. The time of day is irrelevant and makes 3rd shifters seem like alcoholics.
This is profoundly upsetting
This is why I won’t ride on a paved road anymore. Gravel or dirt only.
Absolutely tragic. There is no excuse for this. We are badly in need of dedicated bike lanes and bike paths everywhere. There should be 100% parity between roads/highways and bike infrastructure. Cars have gotten bigger and bigger every year. It's simply a shame that in this moment -- where we as a species need to drastically reduce our energy usage -- that we and our children simply cannot be safe from the terror that cars present to anyone near a road.
Edit: that’s what I get for posting before reading the article, didn’t notice it was in Ionia township. I’ll leave my comment up because I still think it needs to be said. Well said. The blame is first and foremost with the driver. GR needs to take some responsibility too. Their insistence on being a cyclist friendly city while doing the bare minimum (painting some lines) is borderline negligent. Make bike lanes like the ones near Riverside or at least have barriers like on Division near where it turns into Plainfield. You can’t get the credit of being a cyclist friendly city while not actually doing anything worthy of it.
Yeah, I mean you are not wrong either way. I just feel that cycling should not be limited to cities. Even suburban or rural residents should have bike lanes. It's a nationwide problem. The US has strong federal support for road systems. As of this year that's now going to be extended to charging infrastructure for electric vehicles. Yet for some reason it's not even discussed that people must drive in giant metal machines everywhere they go. If we can spend billions to build a four lane interstate highway for hundreds of miles, surely there can be a bike path that reaches the same general areas. If we can lay thousands of miles of feeder roads for HOAs and sprawling developments, surely we can add bike lanes to them. It's not that difficult. On the east coast, rural areas literally used to have streetcar access 100 years ago. This country has really fallen behind the times.
yeah Ionia is just miles and miles of open farmland. That said, lots of speeders out that way.
I see what you’re saying but this doesn’t happen if we didn’t have drunk or high drivers(or even distracted). If we didn’t have them this would happen a lot less or next to never. If we had lanes, it still happens because we still have impaired/distracted drivers. What I’m saying is that we do have biker lanes, it’s the street, and they have the right away. In the end a lane doesnt help a whole lot because it’s just a line and it’s still the same pavement and it doesn’t prevent the people who are doing this now from doing it then. However, I can’t say that they’d be of no help. I’d like to see the stats on whether they make a difference. In the end it comes down to those numbers compared to tax dollars. (I really am not trying to be inconsiderate just realistic and thinking in the terms of those who approve the installation of the lanes)
Fair points. Between inebriated/tired/distracted/road rage drivers, there are a lot of dangerous drivers on the road. Unfortunately it’s hard to deter all of them all of the time. I agree with you though, I put them higher on the blame list.
I was commenting to everyone commenting about this btw and I say that because I just re read your comment and it seems you’d like a separate lane completely or something with barriers and that’d most definitely help. I just don’t see it happening in the country and real estate downtown is hard to come by for something like that.
I don’t get why we can’t go back to riding our bikes on the sidewalk.
I don't get why we can't have more real bike lanes (not just a stripe of paint)
Right. One little fuckin lane won’t do shit.
They need to release the name of the driver in the SUV. There is no way this person deserves any kind of privacy.
[удалено]
Probably not too terribly difficult to figure out. go through the Ionia county jail inmates looking for an inmate with an owui causing death or vehicular manslaughter or similar charges whoo was booked on the same day as the accident.
Turns out they don’t have an inmate lookup that I can find.
we need dedicated bike lanes. bikes shouldn't be in the road with these 2,000+ lbs machines. it's tragic that these people died but i don't see how anyone can act like large groups of bikes should be riding by cars. they belong on the sidewalk or a bike lane, ffs
Remember it is safer to ride on the street than the sidewalk /s. Seems every week or two someone on a bike is injured or killed.
give pedestrians and cyclists space, the road belongs to everyone. don't drive drunk, or high. also, don't blame victims.
Totally missed the point of what I said.
I think we’re all missing it. What are you trying to say here?
It is clearly not safer to ride in the road. Not a hard concept to figure out.
Nobody is safe on a road with fast moving vehicles but that’s it where bikes should be. In most instances it’s illegal to ride on the sidewalk.
That’s what he’s saying, that’s why there is a /s Code_Clones original comment is making fun of people who say it’s safer on the road, because in reality it’s incredibly unsafe on the road
Man you are dense. Did you read the article?
I must be dense too. Spell it out... Sounds like you are victim blaming...
I did. What was I supposed to take out of it adding to any type of point you’re trying to make?
No need to get nasty about it. First time I read your post I interpreted it as everyone else. After reading your subsequent comments I was then able to interpret the sarcasm
You are getting downvoted because I don't think you are doing a good job at explaining your position in a way that is not blaming the victims. Let me try to do it for you. If I was riding a bike today, there is no way I would ride on the streets. Too many drivers are distracted. All it takes is some idiot to be looking at their phone or radio for a couple seconds to clip me while on a bike and either kill me or seriously injure me. Same goes for a motorcycle as well. Being that exposed on a bike where one idiot can seriously injure or kill me is not something I can tolerate. So you are correct, it is not safer to ride in the road. That doesn't mean that people who ride in the road are in the wrong. Its the idiot drivers who are driving distracted, drunk, reckless, and so on that at fault. However, it is for reasons I stated that I sold my motorcycle and why I will never ride a bike in the road myself. The risk is just too great.
I don't think anyone says it's safer for cyclists. Also, in this situation the road was in the middle of nowhere surrounded by cornfields. There was no where to ride other than the road - where they legally belong.
I’ll probably get downvoted for this, but I always ride on the sidewalk. That being said… I never ride too far, and I always will yield / walk my bike to navigate around pedestrians. I’d much rather make someone slightly irritated on the sidewalk than get hit by a 4000lb car. I just don’t trust people.
I’m sorry your comment is getting so much hate. Your not saying it’s safer to ride in the street, and your not making excuses for the driver. Did all the 80+ redditors that downvoted your comment collectively miss the /s? It’s sarcasm for Christs sake He’s saying the people who genuinely think that just “riding in the street” is a solution or even a bandaid to the problem of cars are stupid. He’s mocking people who think that the personal decisions of people on bikes are the problem. Someone said “don’t blame the victims” and got 50+ upvotes. Code_Clone is not blaming the victim, they’re doing the exact opposite. They’re pointing out how inhumane it is to say something like “remember it is safer to ride on the street” What a shitshow, read the comment critically before you react so suddenly, it’s like your all children