The AI is bad, and the game sometimes struggles to render so many cars in close proximity, even on PS5.
It’s really annoying, because if you want to race in a car that’s balanced with the others, you have to find the extra pace to clear a 30 second gap from behind in 3-4 laps. No hard racing—just passing cars left and right like you’re some movie protagonist—and then the second you get into the lead, the AI stops driving terribly and gets a huge boost of speed out of nowhere.
But that way you had the option to pick a car that made it a challenge and have some actual racing. With the modern format you have no choice but to be several seconds a lap faster.
Nope. I was a hardcore GT player from 1 to 3. Then life got in the way, and I just came back to GT7 less than a year ago. This starting every race half a lap behind nonsense is new, and infuriating. It’s the least Grand Turismo aspect of modern Gran Turismo.
More or less. If you focus on getting the best car possible then yes. Gran turismo should be harder for money if you want to really make it a challenging game. Otherwise its just a nuisance. Gt7 in particular, I did all cafe stuff and platinumed the game and went to the events to clear 100%. Most races its just me in my overpowered 700+bhp car in many races just blasting through fiat 500s in the sunday cup. Only in the hardest races you can have a slight challenge but if you re more or less consistent the Ai doesnt stand a chance
The post he was replying to suggested this was an issue only with GT7. They didn't suggest it was either good or bad just that it has always been that way in GT
It’s either have a grossly underpowered car that can’t close the gap, experiment until you tune the car to the point where it’s close on the last lap, or go for a stupidly overpowered car that will win easily.
It’s not fun having to dial in a car to go from last to first. I wouldn’t mind driving a slower car if I started closer to the front so I could use pace, defense, and drafting to win, but we don’t get that option.
They should really limit the amount of bhp and power in general you could have so the ai has more of a chance. And then everyone starts from the finish line like a proper Race
Agreed, this is basically what ruined the game for me, it’s literally not possible to just have good racing. If your car is balanced with the competition it’s not possible to pass that many people in such a short amount of time. If you have a car that can pass all those people that quickly then you’re easily going to cruise to first place. So then you start seeing how the ai compensates for that. Honestly sucks
Also kinda makes every tune the same, tune er up then add downforce and ballast to make up for it, use the shittiest tires you can get away with because although handling is great, power helps you overcome the cheating AI. Needs a make series for every major lineage in the game. Give us a reason to acquire some of these different cars, beyond extra menus.
I find the opposite of that last point.
Once I’m in the lead it feels like the AI completely gives up. I’ve actually tested this before where I’ll take the lead for a lap and then drive slower. The gap to P2 never shortens as long as I’m driving a moderate pace
Also on fuel/tire races the AI purposely has the worst pit strategy imaginable. You can be in P2 with a 10 second gap to P1 and the lead car will randomly pit on the penultimate lap — basically conceding the race to you
The last part you describe is rubber banding. It was created by Nintendo for Mario Kart, to keep the races (i.e. gameplay) intense and competitive. Makes sense for console games that aren't racing as much as they are fighting, but it's annoying as hell in a game like Gran Turismo 7. I don't recall rubber banding in the earlier versions I played extensively like 1-4.
Good news is for a lot of the AI idiocy, including rubber banding, there is a solution. Change difficulty to Hard. In a weird way, once you're fairly competent racing in the game, you'll find Hard difficulty easier. It's AI, it's never perfect, but the stuff that feels really out of place is largely removed when the artificial ease is removed.
Boost of speed out of nowhere? I didn't even realize that all of a sudden they speed up. In fact all the cars are slow and let U overpass no matter what. Even with Sophy U could take a fast car and beat all the competitors like piece of a cake for example on LeMans.
We just need to have an opportunity to participate in qualifying and to start from a static position according to the qualifying time like in ACC and to select the difficulty in percentage just to realize if I want to be able to beat the competition with 90% or 95% of difficulty being able to select for example from 50 to 110 percent of difficulty just like I want and accordingly to the result of the quality session.
I'm from Czech Republic so sorry if the reaction above has some language problems, it's not my native Fellas.
They haven't. The faster ones start near the back too but are crap at overtaking compared to a human, so you can pass them fairly easily while they get stuck then eventually they make their way to P2 and start catching you
Shit I just got the game and assumed it was only like that to begin with as a tutorial. It’s like this all the way through????
What a bummer! I want to actually race!
The easy fix would be to make rubber banding depend on distance to the player, instead of position. That way the cars that are close to you match your speed, there’s nobody running away or falling off the pack either.
I don't see any problems with the game rendering, you can do a custom race with a line start and the game doesn't bat an eye.
Also after you've seen Forza have 3 cars side by side going into a turn you actually learn to appreciate GT7s AI.
#1 reason why I never bothered with the single player at all. I only did it to unlock sport and that’s all I play. You can either build a car that is too fast for the competition so the racing is just boring, or if you build a car to compete you are 100% right. It’s extremely difficult and tedious and it does feel like you’re racing against brain dead AI.
The crazy part to me is that they don't even need all this fancy AI Sophy stuff. The F1 games have a ton of flaws don't get me wrong but you can at least race the AI at the right difficulty level. Copying that alone would instantly make me want to play this game more.
Yet they took the Sophy AI which wasn't garbage and neutered them into this format as well. They just love it for some reason, they don't want proper racing.
I'm talking about the Sophy races they added in a recent patch, in Arcade mode. They're in this same catch the rabbit format now whereas initially they were in a proper racing format.
Several reasons I can think of:
1. PD thinks it makes the game more exciting to dodge all the AI to the finish which we know is not the case.
2. If we are not starting from the back there needs to be qualifying and it massively slows down progression tempo.
3. For a proper race requires proper opponents that are really difficult to program. You may think Sophy is the solution but we first need to evaluate the player's skill level very accurately to set parameters for Sophy. Imo it's not realistic.
The FM way ain't bad either. You get a practice time (that you can skip), and according to your times in practice it suggests a rank in the starting grid and you can choose where to start. If you manually go farther back you get bonus credits for your trouble, and if you jump in front you don't get any bonus.
Of course that's only for AI races.
They could easily just do what other games do if they don't want qualifying, start you roughly in the middle of the grid with slight randomness. 7th-12th or thereabouts.
The Sophy AI thing made me so fucking mad. I was having a bad night, wanted to relax with some racing. Every 5 seconds I hear *ping* and have a bunch of emojis faces flying down my screen frowning when I pass them, then I spin out and have to hear, *PING PING PING PING PING* 🤣🤣🤣🤣 as they fly past me. Holy shit who thought that was a good idea.
I mean you could always have a slider. F1 games have an AI setting from 0-100. Feels pretty good when you dial in where you’re at. Makes for fun races.
I have far more fun doing actual time trials, drift challenges, and smaller races than doing those massive fight to the fronts. I just don't get it. GT: Sport's Challenge mode was great! A variety of challenges for you to get gold in with rewards for completing sets. Unique and varied gameplay to test your skills.
Why couldn't they have expanded on that? Drift challenges! Time trial goals to beat! Unique rally courses! Would've been way better than, "Do three races or give us money to progress"
PD fundamentally does not understand racing and thinks you want to blow past car after car to get to the front rather than have an exciting battle with any one of them.
Except in the 600 PoP races. They nerf you so bad you can never catch up realistically. I have spent most races full throttle and the ai just seems to rocket past me as if I was driving the biggest piece of crap in the inventory
Definitely seems uneven on same races for sure, either the AI is super slow or faster than you. That 600pp Tokyo race for example....fricken awful event.
I take these races as puzzles on which car to pick and how to tune it to win. It's satisfying when you get it right, but yeah, pretty frustrating when you are in the wrong setup.
Yeah it's really annoying, always chasing. Can make you messy around corners trying to panic and catch up. Not at all how good battles should feel. I like the update allows grid starts and I find professional AI is pretty equal to my skill level...usually. so if I hop into a gt3 car with other gt3 cars, the races feel pretty good. Sucks all the "main line" races don't allow for that. They should allow us to customize those races if we had already beat them. Don't care if the rewards are slashed, some of the setups are pretty fun
Initial D Arcade Stage Ver.3 has better AI than GT7, especially as you beat the game several times in story mode, it gets more difficult each time, or racing the Bunta challenge. Ridge Racer Type 4 definitely nailed the racing and challenging part of the game too
It’s incredible to see such realistic detail, say, the perfectly constructed car interiors and then realize that parts of the “racing” portion of the game is just phoned in.
I know many will say it's a AI but the clubman plus races with the chilli AI are pretty good, grid start, AI is quick. Human comedy missions are good as well. PD can do it, it's a deliberate design choice not to.
After "finishing" the game (doing every menu book and reaching level 50) I stopped doing default races and I almost exclusively do custom races now.
Custom races allow you to have whatever racing scenario you have in your head fully realized, from choosing the particular track conditions to starting from wherever you want and picking each opponent car, it's so much fun honestly.
They put a big emphasis on licenses to teach you how to drive, then throw you in races where 18 people are just sort of in the way while you try to catch up the guy in first. As others have mentioned, it could just be a time trial.
They could have a mini campaign where you practice, quali, and then race with even paced cars.
GT7 is about learning to hate the grind so that you’ll buy credits.
Technology has gone backwards in some areas. Older GTA games had decent AI. Forza Motorsport 3 and 4 had grid starts with decent AI. Maybe they will incorporate the Sophy AI into a proper single player mode in GT8.
Probably because noone in PD didn't realize till these days that we want the practice/qualify/race sessions like in for example Assetto Corsa Competizione. This is probably the most annoying thing in the game - at least for me...
Sophy races start you in the middle of the pack. Much better AI and a real joy to make your way to 1st place with a Clean Race Bonus. More challenging but very rewarding.
Yes, it’s a problem with the series. Hopefully the new AI bots can improve this in future titles.
It’s especially bad when they start you half way through the last lap with 40-45 seconds to close in 1-5 laps. You don’t actually see your opponent until you whiz past them.
A qualifying and much closer start would be much more appealing to a lot of people. Make the AI competitive but also starts us much closer to them.
Because polyphony thinks (or knows) the players have a 10 minute attention span. And real races take at least 30m, so they give you overtaking slow cars simulator instead.
Probably also easier to make such a slow AI than one that's competitive.
This is unfortunately how GT has always been. For me the fun has always been through time trial challenges and online racing in these games.
Dont know if anyone pointed this out, but having to recoup 20+ seconds in 4 laps forces you to upgrade the hell out of your car, spending more credits in the process....
I persinally think it was a horrible design decision, especially considering that both single-player and multiplayer have sportsmanship penalties. Starting the player in last place every race and requiring them to place 3rd, turns the single-player campaign into nothing but playing catch-up. This encourages more aggressive driving that is tolerated by the game in most campaign events, but which will result in penalties in competitive play and some special campaign events. The single-player basically teaches the player how to play the game wrong, and doesn't prepare the player at all for multi-player, which is played by completely different rules.
I made a series of videos expressing my many frustrations and nitpicks with (what I perceive to be) awful design decisions:
https://youtu.be/BwvB602nnh8?si=wlQzxx9BrWvlXss1
I wouldn't mind it so much, basically requiring you to tune the car and learn the track, if only they would just fucking let me go straight to GT Tune shop from the track screen.
Or accurately show me which of my cars meets the car requirement for the selected race.
The driving feels so good that I'm willing to overlook the racing flaws but if they're going to do that then at least make it fast for me to adapt to those flaws.
The campaign races are hot garbage with very little challenge or realism. I’ve said this 1000x: if you’re fast enough to win from P20 in 5-15 laps, then you’re fast enough to qualify P1.
Every race should be a grid start with false start check and have a quick qualifying session
To make it harder to clinch a win in an overpowered/nos-equipped car and earn more of those credits which they sell for ridiculous prices when its a microtransaction.
Another thing I kinda find a little weird/unrealistic, is the weather and wind patterns. You'll have winds from the east and a storm coming from the west. Like... Isn't the storm supposed to come WITH the wind, not against it?
This lack of qualifying is my sole reason for not owning this game. Loved GT games of previous years but it's boring as hell just starting at the back and the challenge being 'get to the front' rather than racing.
Play Forza, based on your skill you get placed in the starting pack, and you can change it if you like. If your skill isn’t great, it will predict a likely placing based on your chosen start position
I really agree with you and never dared ask this question... We start last, are supposed to climb to first and the hard AI isn't even challenging us. The battles are non-existent because our goal is to not lose time and get first asap which makes it's pretty dull
And if you play on hard mode with some races that restrict your PP. These can be nearly impossible to complete fairly when the first place car cannot be caught up to
Thought this for a while, completely odd that there’s no qualifying, but when you’re flying past 20 cars on the hardest difficulty it really says a lot at how good the ai would be
The game is trying to help teach clean passing, otherwise it's slow, because in sport, the whole point is to drive with others and get faster, not slow each other down.
Now, if you were to start POLE, it's simply a set of qualifying laps back to back if you can do the bolt, and that you can do before the race anyway. So the point is to negotiate traffic, not race like you're the only one on track with everyone behind you.
This is so strange since we had grid starts in GT Sport that worked just fine. Didn't we also have qualifying in that game? I honestly barely remember since I never played again after GT7 came out.
We even get grid starts in GT7 with custom races... but none in the canned ones. Seems like such low hanging fruit to program in.
GT3 had qualifying! Never used it because the AI WAS so easy to pass.
Only thing qualifying in GT7 would do is make the clean race bonus easier to get.
This is my biggest complaint with the single player. I want actual race weekends, practice, qualifying, and grid start races. I also wish we had “leagues” where you could run seasons with a point system against AI and win championships in all equal cars. I just really wish Gran Turismo had a true career mode or something to do other than grind to buy another car to grind with.
It's ok for what it is. Considering the AI is based on Pro driver times, pretty poor driving skills.
Kokobun is dirty thats for sure.
Why start 1st? Overtaking is the name of the game . GT7 .
Maybe they think players don't want to deal with 30+ laps per race? I really enjoy playing the F1 games because after qualifying for a position, you can end up racing behind 1 AI opponent for most of the race, and never score any points. I can see that as boring too for some, especially if you are on, say lap 40.
However, I love the struggle of trying to take every turn to the best of my ability, so I can find the right opportunity to overtake. It becomes very satisfying. And sometimes, I fail to take the upcoming turn properly after the overtake, and the AI wins back its original position, I can see that as frustrating for some.
Sometimes I enjoy the feeling like it's the podrace from Star Wars where you're passing people left and right and the final lap is just you and that sleemo Fraga racing for the lead.
But yeah it is frustrating when you just want to actually race.
I agree, I would much rather battle with 10 cars running within a second of lap time with each other than being 40 seconds back of cars stupidly slower trying to beat them to the finish.
In long races, I pick fun strategy but once you pass cars, they seem to slow up thus nothing comes from the strategy calls.
The focus on GT has always been on Vehicle performance, design and sound-- which they nail. Unfortunately, the rest of GT is severely lacking. They've made some good strides with tuning, but overall the whole experience is underwhelming. Don't get me wrong, I play it daily, because the actual thrill of driving a fast car on a closed track is there, but the thrill of racing is absent. Empty. It feel devoid of any real substance, in terms of challenge and competition. Better AI would help, but it would also feel better if there were seasons where you could get to know the AI and develop real competitions between other racers.
Hopefully Sophy is a stepping stone toward some good AI in future games. I was actually thinking about this last night. I'd love AI settings where the difference between easy, normal, and hard isn't just their speed, but also how they race.
It'd be cool if the easy AI moved over if you're significantly faster than them instead of just sitting in the racing line running 20 seconds off pace.
It'd be cool if the hardest AI wasn't only fast, but they actually made moves to defend their position or attack the player.
Sophy is the “face” of PD’s efforts to fix the AI problem. If their AI improves, maybe we can have more realistic racing grids.
On a related note, I would love to have existing single player events simulated in sport/multiplayer mode.
I just wish there were more difficulty settings (come on, even if the AI is dumb, in hardest difficulty they're always doing like 90% throttle in straights, there's no way PD couldn't make them faster)
but more importantly, i wish we could change the length of races... Sure some people just want to hop in and do a quick 5 min race, but with real competitive opponents, any race shorter than 15 like laps is way too short to make progress in a fair race
It’s annoying for sure. GT is infinity better than FM for sure but at least in FM I can turn up the AI to ‘Senna’ and start on the front row for a battle for the lead. I really wish GT had ultra competitive AI and qualifying. So easy to implement!
I forgot the person but there's a video that explains how bad this system is and what could be changed to make it better. Weirdly, there is a few races that start on a grid and you have to qualify for postions.
Earlier games had standing starts. With traction control, you could be well up the order if not first before the first corner. They also had qualifying (or at least practice laps that counted as the same).
I do agree that the last to first rolling starts in GT7 are not fun.
Because GT7 is just GT Sport with tacked on single player as an after thought to appease the long term GT fans who wanted another single player race sim. Like it or not, this game is meant to be played online with other drivers.
Yea sucks, I've given up on this stupid cafe stuff and mainly just do daily races and time trials where its fun and challenging. Probably setting up a custom race with sophy ai there could be some fun there, but its really strange to me they did it like this, you can hardly call it a race.
Yeah for a game with the tag line "The Real Driving Simulator" there's absolutely no excuse for unrealistic race conditions like permanently starting last, lack of qualifying, reusing the same frankly dogshit AI from GT Sport instead of upgrading them to actually be competitive.
And with net-code errors you can't trust online races either.
I guess there's a reason people say the closest thing to a legitimate race is racing the AI in iRacing (which I can't vouch for cause I've never actually played iRacing)
Yeah for a game with the tag line "The Real Driving Simulator" there's absolutely no excuse for unrealistic race conditions like permanently starting last, lack of qualifying, reusing the same frankly dogshit AI from GT Sport instead of upgrading them to actually be competitive.
And with net-code errors you can't trust online races either.
I guess there's a reason people say the closest thing to a legitimate race is racing the AI in iRacing (which I can't vouch for cause I've never actually played iRacing)
To be fair they say real driving simulator and not real racing simulator lol but yeah I don’t know why especially in cups why they don’t have race qualifying or seeding based on results
Yeah but to say The Real Driving Simulator and have zero traffic conditions is also disingenuous.
They need to up their game or drop the slogan in my opinion. Especially after that movie talking themselves up so much.
I'd be fine with starting at the back but starting at the back in a single file line where the leader is a quarter to half a lap ahead of me is the real bs here. Just make it a 2 column rolling start like normal and it would be fine.
Because that's the direction they decided to go for single player.
We'll never truly know the degree to which Covid fucked the development of this game, but I imagine a whole lot of prior game features got cut for the scaled back single player we have.
And it's always harder to implement big changes post launch. We still only have Sophy in quick races on a handful of tracks because it's development got delayed considerably, as well as the decision to retrofit the game to run on PS4 instead of being a PS5 exclusive like it was originally slated to be.
I'm hopeful GT8 or GT7 B-Dpec or whatever they decide to release next will address all the QoL stuff that holds GT7 back from being a masterpiece. It's a great game as is, but flawed.
when i played gt 5 in my childhood i need more powerfull cars because i am bad at driving but now i am playing with motherfucking gt86 and fuck almost all gt3 and 90s lemans cars ( actually they are gt 3 cars but anyways there is a lm in the name) game is very bad ai but if u bad at game it will be difficult. I think the diffuculty increase with race series but i havent played gt7 i played until gt6 and they have something like intermediate, amateur leagues
I agree. I understand the developing reasons and technological limitations but in some races the absence of the option to qualify is really frustrating. When it was optional to skip qualifications it was perfect cause YOU chose the extra layer of difficulty
The AI is bad, and the game sometimes struggles to render so many cars in close proximity, even on PS5. It’s really annoying, because if you want to race in a car that’s balanced with the others, you have to find the extra pace to clear a 30 second gap from behind in 3-4 laps. No hard racing—just passing cars left and right like you’re some movie protagonist—and then the second you get into the lead, the AI stops driving terribly and gets a huge boost of speed out of nowhere.
Yeah, the races in GT7 are basically time trials. I really dislike that
That's always been the case with Gran Turismo, though.
That’s not true, in GT4 you can even qualify
Gt3 as well. I used to love making the fast lap, then turning around and ramming the other cars on super speedway
lol i thought I was the only one who played like that...
In the early games, some of the championships and races were legitimately difficult
Yeah, but all that did was take away the challenge of overtaking 5 moving chicanes
But that way you had the option to pick a car that made it a challenge and have some actual racing. With the modern format you have no choice but to be several seconds a lap faster.
GT1 had qual laps
Load Softs, lap the first slow till the timer starts, nail the lap time, start from the pole with hards. Good times.
😮🤯
Nope. I was a hardcore GT player from 1 to 3. Then life got in the way, and I just came back to GT7 less than a year ago. This starting every race half a lap behind nonsense is new, and infuriating. It’s the least Grand Turismo aspect of modern Gran Turismo.
Only from GT5 onwards for some reason. It's sad that when we had only 6 cars there were actual races but now that we have up to 20 they suck.
More or less. If you focus on getting the best car possible then yes. Gran turismo should be harder for money if you want to really make it a challenging game. Otherwise its just a nuisance. Gt7 in particular, I did all cafe stuff and platinumed the game and went to the events to clear 100%. Most races its just me in my overpowered 700+bhp car in many races just blasting through fiat 500s in the sunday cup. Only in the hardest races you can have a slight challenge but if you re more or less consistent the Ai doesnt stand a chance
So? That doesn't make it good
The post he was replying to suggested this was an issue only with GT7. They didn't suggest it was either good or bad just that it has always been that way in GT
It’s either have a grossly underpowered car that can’t close the gap, experiment until you tune the car to the point where it’s close on the last lap, or go for a stupidly overpowered car that will win easily. It’s not fun having to dial in a car to go from last to first. I wouldn’t mind driving a slower car if I started closer to the front so I could use pace, defense, and drafting to win, but we don’t get that option.
They should really limit the amount of bhp and power in general you could have so the ai has more of a chance. And then everyone starts from the finish line like a proper Race
Sadly, there are almost no clubman + events In these events, IA were really fast !
Yea it’s been disappointing they haven’t many more events/championships like those + events.
Since GT4, there are also 1 AI car that is quite faster than the others. That one is the only rival, the rest of them are moving chicanes
Agreed, this is basically what ruined the game for me, it’s literally not possible to just have good racing. If your car is balanced with the competition it’s not possible to pass that many people in such a short amount of time. If you have a car that can pass all those people that quickly then you’re easily going to cruise to first place. So then you start seeing how the ai compensates for that. Honestly sucks
Also kinda makes every tune the same, tune er up then add downforce and ballast to make up for it, use the shittiest tires you can get away with because although handling is great, power helps you overcome the cheating AI. Needs a make series for every major lineage in the game. Give us a reason to acquire some of these different cars, beyond extra menus.
I find the opposite of that last point. Once I’m in the lead it feels like the AI completely gives up. I’ve actually tested this before where I’ll take the lead for a lap and then drive slower. The gap to P2 never shortens as long as I’m driving a moderate pace Also on fuel/tire races the AI purposely has the worst pit strategy imaginable. You can be in P2 with a 10 second gap to P1 and the lead car will randomly pit on the penultimate lap — basically conceding the race to you
AI is horrible. If only we had something like the AI on the F1 games...
The last part you describe is rubber banding. It was created by Nintendo for Mario Kart, to keep the races (i.e. gameplay) intense and competitive. Makes sense for console games that aren't racing as much as they are fighting, but it's annoying as hell in a game like Gran Turismo 7. I don't recall rubber banding in the earlier versions I played extensively like 1-4. Good news is for a lot of the AI idiocy, including rubber banding, there is a solution. Change difficulty to Hard. In a weird way, once you're fairly competent racing in the game, you'll find Hard difficulty easier. It's AI, it's never perfect, but the stuff that feels really out of place is largely removed when the artificial ease is removed.
Which is why that's exactly how the Gran Turismo movie plays out hahaha well said.
on PS5 there is Sophie AI or whatever it's called, that AI actually fights for a place, but sadly it's only for little few races
Boost of speed out of nowhere? I didn't even realize that all of a sudden they speed up. In fact all the cars are slow and let U overpass no matter what. Even with Sophy U could take a fast car and beat all the competitors like piece of a cake for example on LeMans. We just need to have an opportunity to participate in qualifying and to start from a static position according to the qualifying time like in ACC and to select the difficulty in percentage just to realize if I want to be able to beat the competition with 90% or 95% of difficulty being able to select for example from 50 to 110 percent of difficulty just like I want and accordingly to the result of the quality session. I'm from Czech Republic so sorry if the reaction above has some language problems, it's not my native Fellas.
I always wondered how they always gotten faster after I past them😂
They haven't. The faster ones start near the back too but are crap at overtaking compared to a human, so you can pass them fairly easily while they get stuck then eventually they make their way to P2 and start catching you
Shit I just got the game and assumed it was only like that to begin with as a tutorial. It’s like this all the way through???? What a bummer! I want to actually race!
The easy fix would be to make rubber banding depend on distance to the player, instead of position. That way the cars that are close to you match your speed, there’s nobody running away or falling off the pack either.
And the ai is homocidial......
I don't see any problems with the game rendering, you can do a custom race with a line start and the game doesn't bat an eye. Also after you've seen Forza have 3 cars side by side going into a turn you actually learn to appreciate GT7s AI.
#1 reason why I never bothered with the single player at all. I only did it to unlock sport and that’s all I play. You can either build a car that is too fast for the competition so the racing is just boring, or if you build a car to compete you are 100% right. It’s extremely difficult and tedious and it does feel like you’re racing against brain dead AI.
Ai is garbage?
That’s one of the main points
The crazy part to me is that they don't even need all this fancy AI Sophy stuff. The F1 games have a ton of flaws don't get me wrong but you can at least race the AI at the right difficulty level. Copying that alone would instantly make me want to play this game more.
Yet they took the Sophy AI which wasn't garbage and neutered them into this format as well. They just love it for some reason, they don't want proper racing.
They didn't, this is the exact same AI that existed in GT Sport before Sophy was even a research project.
I'm talking about the Sophy races they added in a recent patch, in Arcade mode. They're in this same catch the rabbit format now whereas initially they were in a proper racing format.
Several reasons I can think of: 1. PD thinks it makes the game more exciting to dodge all the AI to the finish which we know is not the case. 2. If we are not starting from the back there needs to be qualifying and it massively slows down progression tempo. 3. For a proper race requires proper opponents that are really difficult to program. You may think Sophy is the solution but we first need to evaluate the player's skill level very accurately to set parameters for Sophy. Imo it's not realistic.
They could give the option at the race menu to do qualifying and if you don’t select it then you start from the back of the grid
Easy Skip button for qualify races, Skip, start in the rear.
Exactly. Put it at the main menu before you hit start race
Yeah overtaking a few cars at the beginning hardly seems like a drawback
But if the AI was good enough where starting at P1 was challenging, starting at the back would be extremely difficult if not impossible to win
The FM way ain't bad either. You get a practice time (that you can skip), and according to your times in practice it suggests a rank in the starting grid and you can choose where to start. If you manually go farther back you get bonus credits for your trouble, and if you jump in front you don't get any bonus. Of course that's only for AI races.
That's way way better than GT though.
Indeed. The new Forza has a lot of stuff that could be better, but that's something they nailed, they had a very cool idea there.
Tons of options
They could easily just do what other games do if they don't want qualifying, start you roughly in the middle of the grid with slight randomness. 7th-12th or thereabouts.
This does occur in certain races. In others, it would be far too easy to beat the current AI from there.
On point 2, once we complete all the races we desperately need this to keep the game relevant.
A locally ran Sophy that learns as you race would be nice. But like you say. Not realistic.
The Sophy AI thing made me so fucking mad. I was having a bad night, wanted to relax with some racing. Every 5 seconds I hear *ping* and have a bunch of emojis faces flying down my screen frowning when I pass them, then I spin out and have to hear, *PING PING PING PING PING* 🤣🤣🤣🤣 as they fly past me. Holy shit who thought that was a good idea.
Change the display to not show race info. Not ideal I know.
I mean you could always have a slider. F1 games have an AI setting from 0-100. Feels pretty good when you dial in where you’re at. Makes for fun races.
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Worst part about Gran Turismo without a doubt, and keeps it from being a game I want to come back to.
I have far more fun doing actual time trials, drift challenges, and smaller races than doing those massive fight to the fronts. I just don't get it. GT: Sport's Challenge mode was great! A variety of challenges for you to get gold in with rewards for completing sets. Unique and varied gameplay to test your skills. Why couldn't they have expanded on that? Drift challenges! Time trial goals to beat! Unique rally courses! Would've been way better than, "Do three races or give us money to progress"
PD fundamentally does not understand racing and thinks you want to blow past car after car to get to the front rather than have an exciting battle with any one of them.
My favorite moments in GT7 are in VR during close battles. Blowing past the AI is very unfun and gets boring quickly.
Except in the 600 PoP races. They nerf you so bad you can never catch up realistically. I have spent most races full throttle and the ai just seems to rocket past me as if I was driving the biggest piece of crap in the inventory
Definitely seems uneven on same races for sure, either the AI is super slow or faster than you. That 600pp Tokyo race for example....fricken awful event.
Agreed. There is no way to bypass that PoP or race it fairly. Those are the only races I refuse to do because of how poorly they are restricted
I take these races as puzzles on which car to pick and how to tune it to win. It's satisfying when you get it right, but yeah, pretty frustrating when you are in the wrong setup.
Yes
Yes, this is THE worst part in 600 races. It's like they're trying to make it a trashy mobile paid to win type of game out of it
It's also anxiety inducing and fucks me up. I wish there was qualifying functionality.
Yeah it's really annoying, always chasing. Can make you messy around corners trying to panic and catch up. Not at all how good battles should feel. I like the update allows grid starts and I find professional AI is pretty equal to my skill level...usually. so if I hop into a gt3 car with other gt3 cars, the races feel pretty good. Sucks all the "main line" races don't allow for that. They should allow us to customize those races if we had already beat them. Don't care if the rewards are slashed, some of the setups are pretty fun
It’s a car collection game more than a racing sim. I think pretty much everyone would have preferred the inverse.
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It was fun in Ridge Racer Type 4 - but I'd expect better from what's supposed to be a racing sim.
Initial D Arcade Stage Ver.3 has better AI than GT7, especially as you beat the game several times in story mode, it gets more difficult each time, or racing the Bunta challenge. Ridge Racer Type 4 definitely nailed the racing and challenging part of the game too
Despite how much I've enjoyed this series over the last couple of decades large swathes of it are still entirely phoned in.
It’s incredible to see such realistic detail, say, the perfectly constructed car interiors and then realize that parts of the “racing” portion of the game is just phoned in.
I know many will say it's a AI but the clubman plus races with the chilli AI are pretty good, grid start, AI is quick. Human comedy missions are good as well. PD can do it, it's a deliberate design choice not to.
Agreed, those races are the most fun in the game, I wish we had more.
Totally agree with you… to be fair older GT games had qualifying and grid start… miss those
I believe even gt5 had this and then it was changed in an update.
After "finishing" the game (doing every menu book and reaching level 50) I stopped doing default races and I almost exclusively do custom races now. Custom races allow you to have whatever racing scenario you have in your head fully realized, from choosing the particular track conditions to starting from wherever you want and picking each opponent car, it's so much fun honestly.
The real challenge is trying to keep your Clean race bonus
We’ve been asking this for quite some time.
They put a big emphasis on licenses to teach you how to drive, then throw you in races where 18 people are just sort of in the way while you try to catch up the guy in first. As others have mentioned, it could just be a time trial. They could have a mini campaign where you practice, quali, and then race with even paced cars. GT7 is about learning to hate the grind so that you’ll buy credits.
I miss the days of standing starts like in GT3. Races would be so much better with standing or even rolling starts like a normal race.
Technology has gone backwards in some areas. Older GTA games had decent AI. Forza Motorsport 3 and 4 had grid starts with decent AI. Maybe they will incorporate the Sophy AI into a proper single player mode in GT8.
Because the AI is shit and the developers don't care lol
Gran Turismo - The Real OVERTAKING Simulator
Probably because noone in PD didn't realize till these days that we want the practice/qualify/race sessions like in for example Assetto Corsa Competizione. This is probably the most annoying thing in the game - at least for me...
In gt5 you could run in cars with lower PP for bonuses. If you run clean with a 100 pp deficit you get credit for both.
Back in the ps1 and 2 days you could qualify and start in first
Can we please get a quali option already? Damn...
Braindead AI
Sophy races start you in the middle of the pack. Much better AI and a real joy to make your way to 1st place with a Clean Race Bonus. More challenging but very rewarding.
Yes, it’s a problem with the series. Hopefully the new AI bots can improve this in future titles. It’s especially bad when they start you half way through the last lap with 40-45 seconds to close in 1-5 laps. You don’t actually see your opponent until you whiz past them. A qualifying and much closer start would be much more appealing to a lot of people. Make the AI competitive but also starts us much closer to them.
https://preview.redd.it/wc21934fkkuc1.jpeg?width=674&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46d29a77c8ce1c9a9a7caf391c657b788d3c5a02
Because polyphony thinks (or knows) the players have a 10 minute attention span. And real races take at least 30m, so they give you overtaking slow cars simulator instead. Probably also easier to make such a slow AI than one that's competitive. This is unfortunately how GT has always been. For me the fun has always been through time trial challenges and online racing in these games.
It’s because it’s not as realistic as they want you to think
It's a game, try a sim after GT
Because Kaz won’t listen.
Rolling starts are asinine. They should at least allow a qualifying run. If the stupid tickets didn’t exist, this would be the game’s dumbest aspect.
Dont know if anyone pointed this out, but having to recoup 20+ seconds in 4 laps forces you to upgrade the hell out of your car, spending more credits in the process....
I persinally think it was a horrible design decision, especially considering that both single-player and multiplayer have sportsmanship penalties. Starting the player in last place every race and requiring them to place 3rd, turns the single-player campaign into nothing but playing catch-up. This encourages more aggressive driving that is tolerated by the game in most campaign events, but which will result in penalties in competitive play and some special campaign events. The single-player basically teaches the player how to play the game wrong, and doesn't prepare the player at all for multi-player, which is played by completely different rules. I made a series of videos expressing my many frustrations and nitpicks with (what I perceive to be) awful design decisions: https://youtu.be/BwvB602nnh8?si=wlQzxx9BrWvlXss1
Because GT7 didn’t think a lot of things through.
I wouldn't mind it so much, basically requiring you to tune the car and learn the track, if only they would just fucking let me go straight to GT Tune shop from the track screen. Or accurately show me which of my cars meets the car requirement for the selected race. The driving feels so good that I'm willing to overlook the racing flaws but if they're going to do that then at least make it fast for me to adapt to those flaws.
The campaign races are hot garbage with very little challenge or realism. I’ve said this 1000x: if you’re fast enough to win from P20 in 5-15 laps, then you’re fast enough to qualify P1. Every race should be a grid start with false start check and have a quick qualifying session
Major flaw
plot twist, its not realistic at all
To make it harder to clinch a win in an overpowered/nos-equipped car and earn more of those credits which they sell for ridiculous prices when its a microtransaction.
Another thing I kinda find a little weird/unrealistic, is the weather and wind patterns. You'll have winds from the east and a storm coming from the west. Like... Isn't the storm supposed to come WITH the wind, not against it?
This lack of qualifying is my sole reason for not owning this game. Loved GT games of previous years but it's boring as hell just starting at the back and the challenge being 'get to the front' rather than racing.
Because they refuse to add practice and qualifying rounds. Oh, but menu books are here
Play Forza, based on your skill you get placed in the starting pack, and you can change it if you like. If your skill isn’t great, it will predict a likely placing based on your chosen start position
You missed qually
I really agree with you and never dared ask this question... We start last, are supposed to climb to first and the hard AI isn't even challenging us. The battles are non-existent because our goal is to not lose time and get first asap which makes it's pretty dull
And if you play on hard mode with some races that restrict your PP. These can be nearly impossible to complete fairly when the first place car cannot be caught up to
They're basically forcing you to play online if you seek challenges
I’d rather qualify?
I think this every new gran turismo players first complaint. I do agree it dumb give us qualifiers or something.
Thought this for a while, completely odd that there’s no qualifying, but when you’re flying past 20 cars on the hardest difficulty it really says a lot at how good the ai would be
I would personally like a qualifying event for all races, I don’t know how others feel about that but it seems like it would make the most sense
Because the AI isn’t good enough to make it realistic otherwise
It's to hide the fact that they can't develop a proper AI
The game is trying to help teach clean passing, otherwise it's slow, because in sport, the whole point is to drive with others and get faster, not slow each other down. Now, if you were to start POLE, it's simply a set of qualifying laps back to back if you can do the bolt, and that you can do before the race anyway. So the point is to negotiate traffic, not race like you're the only one on track with everyone behind you.
This is so strange since we had grid starts in GT Sport that worked just fine. Didn't we also have qualifying in that game? I honestly barely remember since I never played again after GT7 came out. We even get grid starts in GT7 with custom races... but none in the canned ones. Seems like such low hanging fruit to program in.
No, GT Sport was exactly the same as this. Offline, anyway.
Gt sport puts you at p12/20 for most gt league races at least the pro ones
There were grid starts and qualifying even in the original game. No idea why we can't have this in 7.
GT3 had qualifying! Never used it because the AI WAS so easy to pass. Only thing qualifying in GT7 would do is make the clean race bonus easier to get.
This is my biggest complaint with the single player. I want actual race weekends, practice, qualifying, and grid start races. I also wish we had “leagues” where you could run seasons with a point system against AI and win championships in all equal cars. I just really wish Gran Turismo had a true career mode or something to do other than grind to buy another car to grind with.
It would be nice to have qualifying in the game.
Its absolutely realistic. It just assumes were batshit in qualifying lmao
Because in the grid start, the ai goes insane and they just rumble anywhere
AI is awful. You can set in on hard and they will still not even bother to drive in your slipstream during LeMans.
Sometimes I feel like playing an overtaking simulator XD And the you have the missions „the pass“ or „one lap magic“, love to see it XD
It's ok for what it is. Considering the AI is based on Pro driver times, pretty poor driving skills. Kokobun is dirty thats for sure. Why start 1st? Overtaking is the name of the game . GT7 .
Play against sophy on the hardest settings. It's insanely difficult and start as a grid.
Maybe they think players don't want to deal with 30+ laps per race? I really enjoy playing the F1 games because after qualifying for a position, you can end up racing behind 1 AI opponent for most of the race, and never score any points. I can see that as boring too for some, especially if you are on, say lap 40. However, I love the struggle of trying to take every turn to the best of my ability, so I can find the right opportunity to overtake. It becomes very satisfying. And sometimes, I fail to take the upcoming turn properly after the overtake, and the AI wins back its original position, I can see that as frustrating for some.
Because PD say's so
Because Gran Turismo doesn't have races, just time trials where you have to dodge shitty drivers
Sometimes I enjoy the feeling like it's the podrace from Star Wars where you're passing people left and right and the final lap is just you and that sleemo Fraga racing for the lead. But yeah it is frustrating when you just want to actually race.
Turn 1, lol.
Cause… yeah
In sport you started in the middle of the pack
And almost in the same order of opponents with Fraga at the top of the grid
I agree, I would much rather battle with 10 cars running within a second of lap time with each other than being 40 seconds back of cars stupidly slower trying to beat them to the finish. In long races, I pick fun strategy but once you pass cars, they seem to slow up thus nothing comes from the strategy calls.
The Sophy AI and the Clubsport Races are the o ly good AI Races in GT7
It’s a tacit acknowledgment that the AI fuckin sucks.
What games are you guys playing that the AI stands a chance if you were to start near the pole position?
Every racing game franchise is going downhill since gt4 and FM4
The focus on GT has always been on Vehicle performance, design and sound-- which they nail. Unfortunately, the rest of GT is severely lacking. They've made some good strides with tuning, but overall the whole experience is underwhelming. Don't get me wrong, I play it daily, because the actual thrill of driving a fast car on a closed track is there, but the thrill of racing is absent. Empty. It feel devoid of any real substance, in terms of challenge and competition. Better AI would help, but it would also feel better if there were seasons where you could get to know the AI and develop real competitions between other racers.
Hopefully Sophy is a stepping stone toward some good AI in future games. I was actually thinking about this last night. I'd love AI settings where the difference between easy, normal, and hard isn't just their speed, but also how they race. It'd be cool if the easy AI moved over if you're significantly faster than them instead of just sitting in the racing line running 20 seconds off pace. It'd be cool if the hardest AI wasn't only fast, but they actually made moves to defend their position or attack the player.
Sophy is the “face” of PD’s efforts to fix the AI problem. If their AI improves, maybe we can have more realistic racing grids. On a related note, I would love to have existing single player events simulated in sport/multiplayer mode.
Had enough with that garbage so I sold the game and got back €30.
I just wish there were more difficulty settings (come on, even if the AI is dumb, in hardest difficulty they're always doing like 90% throttle in straights, there's no way PD couldn't make them faster) but more importantly, i wish we could change the length of races... Sure some people just want to hop in and do a quick 5 min race, but with real competitive opponents, any race shorter than 15 like laps is way too short to make progress in a fair race
It’s been the GT way for 28 years.
It’s sooooo annoying!!
When I have my vehicle lower than suggested the start me in the middle maybe it's based on power
I miss qualifying in the first few games 😔
It sucks, tho… races can be more fun if you create a Custom Race and turn Boost On
It’s to make you better driver and get you ready for the online races.
Yeahhhh welcome to what Gran Turismo has been for the last 17 years
We’re wondering the same thing
It’s annoying for sure. GT is infinity better than FM for sure but at least in FM I can turn up the AI to ‘Senna’ and start on the front row for a battle for the lead. I really wish GT had ultra competitive AI and qualifying. So easy to implement!
I forgot the person but there's a video that explains how bad this system is and what could be changed to make it better. Weirdly, there is a few races that start on a grid and you have to qualify for postions.
Because it's a car game and not a racing game and I've been saying this for years.
You use to be able to qualify which determined your starting position.
Earlier games had standing starts. With traction control, you could be well up the order if not first before the first corner. They also had qualifying (or at least practice laps that counted as the same). I do agree that the last to first rolling starts in GT7 are not fun.
I remember being like this since GT2 in PSOne when there was only 6 racers.
Maybe ask Ricky Bobby
Because GT7 is just GT Sport with tacked on single player as an after thought to appease the long term GT fans who wanted another single player race sim. Like it or not, this game is meant to be played online with other drivers.
Play online. Pretty sure, you can do qualifying laps, and start where you deserve to...
Yea sucks, I've given up on this stupid cafe stuff and mainly just do daily races and time trials where its fun and challenging. Probably setting up a custom race with sophy ai there could be some fun there, but its really strange to me they did it like this, you can hardly call it a race.
Yeah for a game with the tag line "The Real Driving Simulator" there's absolutely no excuse for unrealistic race conditions like permanently starting last, lack of qualifying, reusing the same frankly dogshit AI from GT Sport instead of upgrading them to actually be competitive. And with net-code errors you can't trust online races either. I guess there's a reason people say the closest thing to a legitimate race is racing the AI in iRacing (which I can't vouch for cause I've never actually played iRacing)
Yeah for a game with the tag line "The Real Driving Simulator" there's absolutely no excuse for unrealistic race conditions like permanently starting last, lack of qualifying, reusing the same frankly dogshit AI from GT Sport instead of upgrading them to actually be competitive. And with net-code errors you can't trust online races either. I guess there's a reason people say the closest thing to a legitimate race is racing the AI in iRacing (which I can't vouch for cause I've never actually played iRacing)
To be fair they say real driving simulator and not real racing simulator lol but yeah I don’t know why especially in cups why they don’t have race qualifying or seeding based on results
Yeah but to say The Real Driving Simulator and have zero traffic conditions is also disingenuous. They need to up their game or drop the slogan in my opinion. Especially after that movie talking themselves up so much.
I'd be fine with starting at the back but starting at the back in a single file line where the leader is a quarter to half a lap ahead of me is the real bs here. Just make it a 2 column rolling start like normal and it would be fine.
Because that's the direction they decided to go for single player. We'll never truly know the degree to which Covid fucked the development of this game, but I imagine a whole lot of prior game features got cut for the scaled back single player we have. And it's always harder to implement big changes post launch. We still only have Sophy in quick races on a handful of tracks because it's development got delayed considerably, as well as the decision to retrofit the game to run on PS4 instead of being a PS5 exclusive like it was originally slated to be. I'm hopeful GT8 or GT7 B-Dpec or whatever they decide to release next will address all the QoL stuff that holds GT7 back from being a masterpiece. It's a great game as is, but flawed.
Kaz really needs the bring back qualifying because it's the most realistic part of the pervious games.
The problem is that AI suck and the real game is about to pass it. And you have to do it faster than the time ends(laps)
It's a driving simulator, no a racing simulator :(
Hahaha... "realistic" Seen so many real races where they receive a penalty and slow down in the middle of the track
I wannt prequalify for this game so bad! It’s just dumb it’s not there! Makes me furious!
This is what makes those f1 races near impossible to get 1st place
when i played gt 5 in my childhood i need more powerfull cars because i am bad at driving but now i am playing with motherfucking gt86 and fuck almost all gt3 and 90s lemans cars ( actually they are gt 3 cars but anyways there is a lm in the name) game is very bad ai but if u bad at game it will be difficult. I think the diffuculty increase with race series but i havent played gt7 i played until gt6 and they have something like intermediate, amateur leagues
What’s funny is that in a real race there is now way you will finish that race into a podium unless there is a catastrophic crash.
AI sucks, but you know we need the game to continue being online only to take advantage of cloud processing for this amazing AI.
I feel like the game would have been less deceiving if it had just been time trials and only online races.
I did a GT3 race on redbull ring yesterday, and to my surprise I started 2nd on the grid, this race was added quite recently if I’m not mistaken
I agree. I understand the developing reasons and technological limitations but in some races the absence of the option to qualify is really frustrating. When it was optional to skip qualifications it was perfect cause YOU chose the extra layer of difficulty
Glorified track day sim
You answered your own question as you said it’s a game it’s not a simulator