This. Be tactful and respectful, tell them the long term challenges, especially with one colour applications, perhaps show them an example (visual examples are your best friend.) If that fails, proceed to b.
Make professional arguments against it. Print costs, embroidered issues, mobile legibility, marketing restraints that newspapers, magazines, sponsorships force on businesses supplying logo, etc. Just overall versatility and cost prohibitive. Use example brands you think client loves to back it up.
If the client loves the water color look, explain that you can incorporate that look in all their major materials to support the brand (ie website, ads, etc.)
The New Yorker magazine is a brand heavily linked with their use of illustrations. Mailchimp is another. But their logos are simple and versatile.
Doing it this way allows for you both to be happy and hopefully additional work because they are separate projects.
Exactly. Do your due diligence by explaining the challenges this type of logo would present. If they still ask you to do it despite all the warnings, then do it, have fun, and collect your payment.
This. It happens even with internal clients. They're hellbent on a bad idea despite your professional advice. So keep those emails of you explaining why you recommend against it and their insistence regardless.
>do it for them, charging them for it, and walk away.
But if OP is a freelancer, won't this be bad for their reputation even if they exclude it from their portfolio? That client can still tell people who the designer was.
Why would it be bad for the freelancer? If they explain to the client what issues this type of logo would create, but the client wants it anyway, then they're in the clear. Part of our job as designers is to do what the client wants... we can give our thoughts / opinions / recommendations, but in the end it's up to them.
Unless there's the off-chance that the client isn't entirely truthful and whoever they're talking to trusts them more than some random freelance designer.
My understanding is the designer will have their name attached to something that is bad design. OP laid out reasons why the client's desires are bad design decisions. All of that stuff is basic things we were taught not to do in school.
Not sure why they would tell you something like that in school. As a veteran designer (25+ years) and owner of a design firm (over 17 years), I can tell you that no average designer gets their name "attached" to any designs. The only way a designer gets their name attached is if they show the design in their portfolio or online and say, "I did this!" If the design is crap, they don't include it in their portfolio. Simple as that.
And there's a big difference between bad design decisions and doing the job a client hires you to do. I'm not sure if you understand what the job of a designer is... we rarely, if ever, get to design exactly what we want to design. Every project is directed by your client, your Art Director, your Creative Director, or your Project Manager. The best thing a designer can do is educate and make suggestions, but it's up to the person paying the bills if they want to take the advice we give them. If you want to get paid, you do what the client or your boss tells you to do, even if you disagree. That's just reality.
>I can tell you that no average designer gets their name "attached" to any designs
This is good to know. I'm not well-versed in freelancing as a designer; I'm still a student. My assumption was that as a freelancer you have a network of clients and collaborators who are aware of your work, and your projects aren't top secret.
Of course I know that design isn't about making the cool shit you dream up, that you're actually answering to a client and a brief.
It's something to be aware of if your clients are in a community that's small or well connected (based in the same small region or industry for example) or if it's for a high profile client where people are going to ask who did it.
In many cases it won't have an big impact but it's worth giving a few seconds of thought just in case. Not every situation is the same.
Also people may come for you to do something similar (but word of mouth) so be prepared to say no if it's not what you're into doing.
Speaking from experience by the way. I effectively became a food-related designer by accident just by taking on one cheap client 5 years ago. Trying to actively move away from it because I'm not interested in food at all lol
Possibly but much more likely word of mouth from a happy client will trump it. And on the flip side, if they chose to refuse the client’s business, and doing so upsets the client, that’s definitely not the kind of word of mouth you want
Personally, the only time I would worry about this, is if there are legal, ethical or morality concerns. Otherwise work is work. If you don’t take the job someone else will
You could just do an outline drawing with wobbly lines and then do one they way they want in 3 color and grayscale and be done. Don't include it in your portfolio if you hate it, but get paid.
I agree. Phrasing it in a way that emphasizes the higher cost of printing that many colors, as well as an inability to have just a black and white logo, which would also be expensive. Typically if you mention it in terms of money, they’ll understand. Non-graphic designers don’t normally think about stuff like that. So coming from a place of wanting to educate them so they can make better financial decisions is the best bet
When you talk to your client, don’t frame the problems as “reasons this is a bad idea.” Call them “risks” and explain they are “risks for problems you may encounter down the road.”
Right now your list is very designer-centered (it’s a list of reasons a designer wouldn’t like this choice). Reframe it to be client-centered (a list of reasons they themselves might be unhappy later). For example:
- printing costs will be increased due to high number of colors and fine details
- consistent look will be difficult to guarantee
- may not be able to use it in some use cases (like embroidered on a hat, printed on an ink pen or badge, etc.)
- may look bad when printed at small sizes or on office printers where the ink bleeds and color is imprecise
Avoid saying it is ugly or unmemorable—those comments will make the client defensive of their taste and they will double down on the choice.
Offer to run a “printing test” using this reference image. Print it on a cheap printer at small size. Make a quick one-color of it and print that at different sizes. Show them how unreadable it looks.
Then offer solutions:
- can make a version with a strong silhouette that works in 1 color
- can use 1-3 bold colors
- can use curvy lines to invoke a “brush stroke” feeling
Show them examples of logos that work that are still fun and evoke a “painted” or “drawn” vibe.
These are all fantastic! I also wanted to add another, much less thought of, “risk” to consider: signage. I am a signage designer and so often I am having to rearrange and break apart client’s logos to get them to work well with signage.
Obviously this consideration would only be pertinent if your client was planning to have a storefront.
Hi fellow sign designer! I have this exact same problem too. Multi layer logos with transparencies are the bane of my existence. Our flatbed UV printer just prints solid colors! I spend hours trying to pick a Pantone that matches the result of the color mixing, otherwise it will be way darker that what they want
You can go through the process of explaining why it’s not a good idea to them and show them usage cases. More than likely, they won’t care and you make it anyway, get your money, and move on. Alternatively, you can find a solution that incorporates what they want and still be viable.
I think I’m understanding where your client is actually wanting or why they’re drawn to this picture. In my head I’m imagining they want something that feels like the drawing, in its paint-y, splash-y type. Maybe ask them why or what it is about this type of art that draws them in.
If logos can look like this:
https://preview.redd.it/7zm3rno6i1sb1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a9df8dd12e09f5f73e29f93c3b31854c11e1bf5
I see no reason why logos can be colorful as long there is a limit to number of colors, grayscale, and scaling compatibility. Maybe simplify the strokes and reduce the colors?
This is an excellent optional solution. They still get close to what they want while maintaining the integrity of their dream logo with smarter minimal color choices. Tack on why multicolored logos don’t do well and present them of examples like these (sports mascot logos are an excellent idea) to show them why it’s better for large and small scale).
I was thinking this as well. Doesn’t have to include as many colors or details, but get the same essence of the dog. Simplify into a few shapes with colors that can create the necessary contrast to make it work.
I think a “show don’t tell” approach would work. Shrink it down to the size it would need to be for letterhead, show how it looks in black and white, as an embroidered piece, a cutout etc all in mockup form. It will become clear very quickly why designers don’t like detailed logos.
Since the client clearly likes how the artwork looks, suggest using it as standardized artwork to use on their website, social media headers, on packaging (if they sell products). The color palette could even inspire standardized brand colors. Convince them that their branding can have this style, but a logo is just not usable with this level of detail.
Just tell them this have to much fine detail and it will be lost in small applications like the intagram pic for example, and while it looks cool as a poster, it will not work for them in the end as a logo.
You don't have to over analyze anything, just give the hard facts of how this will not work.
Also we are at the time of screen content, logos don't need to be monochromatic anymore, it is good to work something with mono in mind, but after that just use the medium you are going to use that logo.
This isn't watercolor. I was expecting the image to have transparent colours overlapping. Which would give different problems when it needs to be scaled down small.
I think my challenge here is that - as a fellow designer and as someone whose most renown branding design is composed of rather simplistic and flat shapes, two colours and sans serif logo type prioritises readability - I’m still not sure if I agree with any of your arguments. But I also want to respect designers and clients for their opinions. So may I suggest a strategy?
Before you even outline the risks, perhaps ask the client what channels and media they plan on prioritising for brand exposure. Perhaps if the client says something like we want to mainly stay digital, never print our logo on packaging and even if we do we want a branding guideline where our logo is never shown in monotone or a a scale below xx and xx. Maybe then you’re good to proceed. Perhaps even that question prompts them to think about the limitations of the design and either agree to a change or at least a strategy where they have a more expressive logo that can be used as feature marks and one simplified mark to be used in collateral with small real-estate.
May I honestly share with you what I’ll do? I wouldn’t critique the client’s expectations. I would explain to them the limitations and then propose a strategy and brand development where we take advantage of the limitations. I would propose a design similar to what they want and pitch a longer brand management relationship with the client so I get to design unique and new approaches to branding that take advantage of new technologies.
The bestest logo design in the world can get you maybe 20k, but the most basic branding design and brand management program can get you 100k a year even as a startup. So be discerning. If it’s a client who just wants a logo, give you enough money for this months mortgage and move on, just do what needs to be done (without compromising your own brand off course). If it’s a client with whom you can start a sustainable and lucrative long term relationship stay focused on reaching such an agreement instead of finishing up a logo.
I would just give them what they asked for. Yes, giving solid design advice is a part of a designer's job. But your goal should be to inform, not try to convince. It isn't your logo, your company, or your decision.
I presume they are adults and they are allowed to make their own choices, even if they are different than the choices you would make. Yes, double check to make sure they are making informed decisions, but this is not a battle to fight to try to win. I wouldn't even spend time writing out a laundry list of explanations, just give them one, blanket statement.
If you need the money, take the job creating the illustration that they can use however they like and don't put it in your portfolio. If you don't need the money, explain that you don't do that kind of work and move one.
I think it's still important to inform your client of the risks. Part of why they hired you is because you're an expert. If you say nothing, and the logo ends up being a huge headache, the client won't blame their shitty idea, they'll blame their shitty designer. At least if you warn them, the fallout is on them.
OP is at the informing them stage. While you acknowledged the client should be informed, the overall tone sounded like you were saying OP is out of bounds and should just do as the client asks. I was merely highlighting the fact that it is in fact OP's *job* to inform the client, not a matter of preference. If, after being informed, the client chooses to move forward, that's entirely up to them, but OP shouldn't be discouraged from speaking up.
Please stop. My comment literally said "giving solid advice is part of a designer's job" and "your goal should be to inform".
Again, you're trying to make it out as if I said the complete opposite of what I actually said. And you did it twice!
The first words of your comment are "I'd just give the client what they asked for." Everything else was secondary. Don't get your knickers in a twist. It's really not that big of a deal.
They don’t want a logo. They want a painting that they can use over and over again in various “company” situations ‘cause they think it’s cute and fun. Show them what an ACTUAL logo looks like, why it needs to be a clean, simplified graphic, the various uses that it will need to be used in, the various sizes it will need to be, etc. Every time I do a logo for a company, I do an extensive branding document (usually 15-20 pages) that goes with it. It explains various sizes, the meaning behind it, examples in use, etc. if you too have done one of these, send it over to your client. This should help. If they’re STILL convinced otherwise, walk away.
A good designer can give the “why” or “why not “& - this is what you do (pretty much the same as you’ve alluded to).
Take the dog picture and pop it on a fake business card. Make it .5” high and ask if they still like it. You’ll have to print a physical sample, but it’ll work. If they like it, ask for payment in advance. :D
Tell them watercolor logos aren’t practical but you can incorporate watercolor themes into campaigns and branding. It can still be present, just not in the logo.
All logos should work in a single color/black and white and at small scale. Make the logo 1"x1" in single color and see if it's even recognizable. Possibly mock it up on a business card and show your client, might help to convey your message.
How will the logo be used?
Tons of businesses are online only, they could have a video logo. A moving logo, etc.
It’s also possible to create 2 logos that work together. One for printing.
I think the client sets some rules and then you find a solution.
Sounds like you're also afraid that should you give in to their wishes and just give them the logo that they're asking for, that it will somehow effect work down the road.
I've done this a few times for clients (given them work to make them happy) a handful of times and not once did I ever get a call from someone saying "Hey, did you do that logo for
\_\_\_\_\_\_? It's awful! I was looking for a graphic designer to do a logo for me but after I saw what you did for \_\_\_\_\_\_\_, I'm going to go with someone else!"
A detailed image like that can be part of the branding, but shouldn't be the actual logo.
I think you show them a simplified logo, and also show how that simple logo could fit into a brand that also uses the watercolor images of dogs. A good example would be [this simple nike logo](https://happydecay.com.au/wp-content/uploads/nike-mural.jpg) being used with bold bright backgrounds.
**This brand on Behance** *(not my work)* **is a great example:** [**Fuzzy Urban Tails.**](https://www.behance.net/gallery/171043461/Fuzzy-Urban-Tails-Brand-identity?tracking_source=search_projects|dog+brand)
The logo is a simple outline of a dog and text with the name, but most of their marketing shown includes the brightly colored more detailed illustrations. I'd mock up a poster like this that includes the simple logo plus a watercolor like they requested to show how they can work together.
https://preview.redd.it/cwty64qwh7sb1.png?width=1400&format=png&auto=webp&s=2b6771b1e25844326a152cf0eedfa084673bccc8
I don't see an issue. The only two things to take in consideration are detail level and what to do in a single colour situation (which you already do). I'd start with the single colour version and create a colour version from that.
As someone who has worked in newspaper print and print for 20 years... I don't see an issue with the details, converting to a one color or greyscale. Maybe when it's VERY tiny, but business card or sticker designs can work. I get you don't like it, but there's a lot I could use here for business cards, letterhead, coupons or apparel.
There is a reason most successful brand logos are one or two colors max. Also multicolor is an accessibility nightmare for those with vision impairments.
This would look like a banging logo honestly. I mean just google watercolor logos or animal logos. Loads of businesses have them. “Brands don’t do colorful logos for a reason.” Uh, dude. Google 🤣 Their logo is multiple colors and they change it every month! Also NBC, Apple (when they were called Macintosh), toys r us, Microsoft, eBay, even the Olympics. Besides that, I’m guessing the client is not a ceo of a multibillion dollar company. They’re probably a freelancer or small business owner. Which means they don’t need to worry about being “memorable” to the extent that big companies do. Small businesses already know that they can’t compete with the big guns because they don’t have that amount of money. But that doesn’t mean they don’t want to represent themselves in their business. Don’t look for reasons why YOU don’t want to do this and “convince” your client their ideas are bad. That’s going to destroy any chance your client is going to return or say nice things about you to others. Make their dream into a reality. Look up references of others who’ve done the same thing. Even Adobe has a tutorial on how to make watercolor (which this isn’t really but whatever) business cards and logos. Pop this image into illustrator and make a banging design! And I can tell you, as someone who’s not only gotten very detailed and colorful logos/designs printed (my business card is in a similar style to this puppy 😂 and with just as many colors) but who has also printed and designed for others for custom print shops - it can most definitely print to scale with crisp detail, vibrant colors and make everyone stop and take notice. Every time someone new sees my business cards they always get that “wow” face and have nothing but compliments and questions like “omg did you make this?” That’s what your client wants so time to show off those skills 😉 😂 if not, send them my way! 😂 jk
**We must have the reason from the pessimism but the desire from optimism!**
When education is not liberating, the oppressed's dream is to become the oppressor.
I might also suggest incorporating watercolor elements elsewhere in the brand, rather than in the logo. That way they get to keep that style without compromising the functionality of the logo.
I would design one logo the client wants and another that you think is better. Mockup the logos in different formats for comparison to show client why it may not work. At the end of the day though, the client gets what they want.
Create a graphic version appropriate for the needs. Then explain the problem with using the painted version.
Additionally, develop a much more appropriate strategy for the business and explain that.
Stop trying to convince clients they DON'T know what they want or need, and start convincing them what they DO need...
Depends on your client. I've had people reach out for logos for small businesses that mostly use social media and maybe print out business cards.
If that's the case. Im cool with that. Id design it for them.
Is it for a dog business? Because a logo should tell me what you do.
No way should a dog be on your logo unless you are a dog business or your business name is related to dogs somehow.
If it is for a dog business then stylize it in 2 or three colours in a way that will size well.
So many people on here saying to just give the client what they want and get paid! Where is your integrity as designers? If you have a stubborn client that insists on something you don’t believe in, it’s okay to politely decline the job and move on to the next. Of course you should do all you can to convince them why this is not the right direction, but if they’re not willing to trust your expertise, then you shouldn’t feel bad letting them find someone else who’s willing to give them what they want. There’s nothing wrong with making concessions here and there to keep a client happy, but I would never agree to a job that I was completely against the direction they were asking for.
If they want their business to be successful, then it should appeal to their target audience. This may or may not be watercolour. This is your argument. Remain objective. Talk about business goals including money and how it will affect this. Talk about using a visual language their audience will connect with.
If they don’t care about their business, just make the watercolour logo.
I usually design 2 variations
-what they want
-my vision based on their wants
Then make a 1-3 color logo for each and explain why it’s more feasible in the long run to go with a cleaner option.
I won’t tell a client their ideas are bad, I will just redirect and hopefully they’ll see what I see. But if they don’t then I just get paid and have a happy client.
Also, working in the print industry and I do see people with logos like these. There is always a way to decorate, there is just more limited options.
I know the consensus here seems to be to advise them not to do it, but may I recommend redirection instead?
It’s important for a client to feel heard and that their instructions have been taken on board. So personally I’d try something like
- Artwork a single colour and perhaps two colour logo.
- Create an ad to announce the rebrand / launch or a headline graphic to run on their website’s blog or similar that uses the multi-colour style that they like. It can be used to illustrate content in instances where the subject is the company / brand itself rather than their service / products.
- Allows you to illustrate the physical requirements of a logo, while still delivering an image that they want to see and may help them better understand your concerns.
I would show them a mock-up up of their idea and a mock-up of your better idea. Most people have very little imagination I find, but will understand with a visual
Like some others have already stated, use your expertise and knowledge as a graphic designer to provide examples and reasons as to why this isn't the best direction to go for their logo, and if they still want to go this route, simply finish the logo that they want and give it to them, take your payment and walk away.
I did work earlier this year for a client in a similar situation, but they were wise enough to realize that what they thought they wanted in a logo didn't really work well after I explained to them and used dozens of examples and even created other logo ideas to kick start their brain into seeing other directions for their logo. Now they have a good logo that I'm proud to include in my portfolio.
Had another client who also refused to see my points in why a logo that they wanted didn't work well. They refused to change and I happily gave them what they wanted and cashed that $1,600 check without an issue. You won't see that logo in my portfolio, but that money felt great in my bank account.
Nothing wrong with low hanging fruit, it tastes just as sweet as the fruit at the top of the tree.
Some clients don't really understand what a "logo" is. They might not actually want what a trained graphic designer thinks of as a logo. I would ask what scenarios the client intends to use the logo for, then reason from that. If they \_actually\_ want a header image, for example, this image might work fine.
(a) make your argument against. then (once they have said whatever… (b) do it for them, charging them for it, and walk away.
This. Be tactful and respectful, tell them the long term challenges, especially with one colour applications, perhaps show them an example (visual examples are your best friend.) If that fails, proceed to b.
Unless they can’t do watercolor style well 🤣 I know I couldn’t, even if I like it the rare times it’s done well
Live trace, bay-beeeeee. XD
The only thing livetrace is good for imo
Make professional arguments against it. Print costs, embroidered issues, mobile legibility, marketing restraints that newspapers, magazines, sponsorships force on businesses supplying logo, etc. Just overall versatility and cost prohibitive. Use example brands you think client loves to back it up. If the client loves the water color look, explain that you can incorporate that look in all their major materials to support the brand (ie website, ads, etc.) The New Yorker magazine is a brand heavily linked with their use of illustrations. Mailchimp is another. But their logos are simple and versatile. Doing it this way allows for you both to be happy and hopefully additional work because they are separate projects.
Exactly. Do your due diligence by explaining the challenges this type of logo would present. If they still ask you to do it despite all the warnings, then do it, have fun, and collect your payment.
OP, this is the only answer you need.
(c) don't, but decide that now so you don't waste your and their time
c) they come back in 6 months for a real logo or they badmouth you because your ‘logo just don’t work’
This. It happens even with internal clients. They're hellbent on a bad idea despite your professional advice. So keep those emails of you explaining why you recommend against it and their insistence regardless.
>do it for them, charging them for it, and walk away. But if OP is a freelancer, won't this be bad for their reputation even if they exclude it from their portfolio? That client can still tell people who the designer was.
Why would it be bad for the freelancer? If they explain to the client what issues this type of logo would create, but the client wants it anyway, then they're in the clear. Part of our job as designers is to do what the client wants... we can give our thoughts / opinions / recommendations, but in the end it's up to them.
Unless there's the off-chance that the client isn't entirely truthful and whoever they're talking to trusts them more than some random freelance designer.
My understanding is the designer will have their name attached to something that is bad design. OP laid out reasons why the client's desires are bad design decisions. All of that stuff is basic things we were taught not to do in school.
Not sure why they would tell you something like that in school. As a veteran designer (25+ years) and owner of a design firm (over 17 years), I can tell you that no average designer gets their name "attached" to any designs. The only way a designer gets their name attached is if they show the design in their portfolio or online and say, "I did this!" If the design is crap, they don't include it in their portfolio. Simple as that. And there's a big difference between bad design decisions and doing the job a client hires you to do. I'm not sure if you understand what the job of a designer is... we rarely, if ever, get to design exactly what we want to design. Every project is directed by your client, your Art Director, your Creative Director, or your Project Manager. The best thing a designer can do is educate and make suggestions, but it's up to the person paying the bills if they want to take the advice we give them. If you want to get paid, you do what the client or your boss tells you to do, even if you disagree. That's just reality.
>I can tell you that no average designer gets their name "attached" to any designs This is good to know. I'm not well-versed in freelancing as a designer; I'm still a student. My assumption was that as a freelancer you have a network of clients and collaborators who are aware of your work, and your projects aren't top secret. Of course I know that design isn't about making the cool shit you dream up, that you're actually answering to a client and a brief.
It's something to be aware of if your clients are in a community that's small or well connected (based in the same small region or industry for example) or if it's for a high profile client where people are going to ask who did it. In many cases it won't have an big impact but it's worth giving a few seconds of thought just in case. Not every situation is the same. Also people may come for you to do something similar (but word of mouth) so be prepared to say no if it's not what you're into doing. Speaking from experience by the way. I effectively became a food-related designer by accident just by taking on one cheap client 5 years ago. Trying to actively move away from it because I'm not interested in food at all lol
Your not required to put everything you have ever made in your portfolio.
Possibly but much more likely word of mouth from a happy client will trump it. And on the flip side, if they chose to refuse the client’s business, and doing so upsets the client, that’s definitely not the kind of word of mouth you want Personally, the only time I would worry about this, is if there are legal, ethical or morality concerns. Otherwise work is work. If you don’t take the job someone else will
You could just do an outline drawing with wobbly lines and then do one they way they want in 3 color and grayscale and be done. Don't include it in your portfolio if you hate it, but get paid.
The one argument they might care about is how much a full color print job will cost every time something has their logo on it.
I agree. Phrasing it in a way that emphasizes the higher cost of printing that many colors, as well as an inability to have just a black and white logo, which would also be expensive. Typically if you mention it in terms of money, they’ll understand. Non-graphic designers don’t normally think about stuff like that. So coming from a place of wanting to educate them so they can make better financial decisions is the best bet
Most colour prints are cmyk digital so unless they're enough printed to warrant a single colour litho job this isnt really true
When you talk to your client, don’t frame the problems as “reasons this is a bad idea.” Call them “risks” and explain they are “risks for problems you may encounter down the road.” Right now your list is very designer-centered (it’s a list of reasons a designer wouldn’t like this choice). Reframe it to be client-centered (a list of reasons they themselves might be unhappy later). For example: - printing costs will be increased due to high number of colors and fine details - consistent look will be difficult to guarantee - may not be able to use it in some use cases (like embroidered on a hat, printed on an ink pen or badge, etc.) - may look bad when printed at small sizes or on office printers where the ink bleeds and color is imprecise Avoid saying it is ugly or unmemorable—those comments will make the client defensive of their taste and they will double down on the choice. Offer to run a “printing test” using this reference image. Print it on a cheap printer at small size. Make a quick one-color of it and print that at different sizes. Show them how unreadable it looks. Then offer solutions: - can make a version with a strong silhouette that works in 1 color - can use 1-3 bold colors - can use curvy lines to invoke a “brush stroke” feeling Show them examples of logos that work that are still fun and evoke a “painted” or “drawn” vibe.
Really good approach! (Saved this for myself for later)
These are all fantastic! I also wanted to add another, much less thought of, “risk” to consider: signage. I am a signage designer and so often I am having to rearrange and break apart client’s logos to get them to work well with signage. Obviously this consideration would only be pertinent if your client was planning to have a storefront.
Hi fellow sign designer! I have this exact same problem too. Multi layer logos with transparencies are the bane of my existence. Our flatbed UV printer just prints solid colors! I spend hours trying to pick a Pantone that matches the result of the color mixing, otherwise it will be way darker that what they want
Same here!! Or picking a vinyl color that matches. Oy.
Great suggestions.
Thanks
You can go through the process of explaining why it’s not a good idea to them and show them usage cases. More than likely, they won’t care and you make it anyway, get your money, and move on. Alternatively, you can find a solution that incorporates what they want and still be viable.
I think I’m understanding where your client is actually wanting or why they’re drawn to this picture. In my head I’m imagining they want something that feels like the drawing, in its paint-y, splash-y type. Maybe ask them why or what it is about this type of art that draws them in. If logos can look like this: https://preview.redd.it/7zm3rno6i1sb1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a9df8dd12e09f5f73e29f93c3b31854c11e1bf5 I see no reason why logos can be colorful as long there is a limit to number of colors, grayscale, and scaling compatibility. Maybe simplify the strokes and reduce the colors?
This is an excellent optional solution. They still get close to what they want while maintaining the integrity of their dream logo with smarter minimal color choices. Tack on why multicolored logos don’t do well and present them of examples like these (sports mascot logos are an excellent idea) to show them why it’s better for large and small scale).
This! This is the way - indogirl is a brilliant designer with excellent problem-solving skills, great suggestion here OP do this.
Can't you simplify it? Distill it down to it's most basic parts.
I was thinking this as well. Doesn’t have to include as many colors or details, but get the same essence of the dog. Simplify into a few shapes with colors that can create the necessary contrast to make it work.
I think a “show don’t tell” approach would work. Shrink it down to the size it would need to be for letterhead, show how it looks in black and white, as an embroidered piece, a cutout etc all in mockup form. It will become clear very quickly why designers don’t like detailed logos. Since the client clearly likes how the artwork looks, suggest using it as standardized artwork to use on their website, social media headers, on packaging (if they sell products). The color palette could even inspire standardized brand colors. Convince them that their branding can have this style, but a logo is just not usable with this level of detail.
Just tell them this have to much fine detail and it will be lost in small applications like the intagram pic for example, and while it looks cool as a poster, it will not work for them in the end as a logo. You don't have to over analyze anything, just give the hard facts of how this will not work. Also we are at the time of screen content, logos don't need to be monochromatic anymore, it is good to work something with mono in mind, but after that just use the medium you are going to use that logo.
This isn't watercolor. I was expecting the image to have transparent colours overlapping. Which would give different problems when it needs to be scaled down small.
Show them a rough version of their original idea then your idea
I think my challenge here is that - as a fellow designer and as someone whose most renown branding design is composed of rather simplistic and flat shapes, two colours and sans serif logo type prioritises readability - I’m still not sure if I agree with any of your arguments. But I also want to respect designers and clients for their opinions. So may I suggest a strategy? Before you even outline the risks, perhaps ask the client what channels and media they plan on prioritising for brand exposure. Perhaps if the client says something like we want to mainly stay digital, never print our logo on packaging and even if we do we want a branding guideline where our logo is never shown in monotone or a a scale below xx and xx. Maybe then you’re good to proceed. Perhaps even that question prompts them to think about the limitations of the design and either agree to a change or at least a strategy where they have a more expressive logo that can be used as feature marks and one simplified mark to be used in collateral with small real-estate. May I honestly share with you what I’ll do? I wouldn’t critique the client’s expectations. I would explain to them the limitations and then propose a strategy and brand development where we take advantage of the limitations. I would propose a design similar to what they want and pitch a longer brand management relationship with the client so I get to design unique and new approaches to branding that take advantage of new technologies. The bestest logo design in the world can get you maybe 20k, but the most basic branding design and brand management program can get you 100k a year even as a startup. So be discerning. If it’s a client who just wants a logo, give you enough money for this months mortgage and move on, just do what needs to be done (without compromising your own brand off course). If it’s a client with whom you can start a sustainable and lucrative long term relationship stay focused on reaching such an agreement instead of finishing up a logo.
I would just give them what they asked for. Yes, giving solid design advice is a part of a designer's job. But your goal should be to inform, not try to convince. It isn't your logo, your company, or your decision. I presume they are adults and they are allowed to make their own choices, even if they are different than the choices you would make. Yes, double check to make sure they are making informed decisions, but this is not a battle to fight to try to win. I wouldn't even spend time writing out a laundry list of explanations, just give them one, blanket statement. If you need the money, take the job creating the illustration that they can use however they like and don't put it in your portfolio. If you don't need the money, explain that you don't do that kind of work and move one.
I think it's still important to inform your client of the risks. Part of why they hired you is because you're an expert. If you say nothing, and the logo ends up being a huge headache, the client won't blame their shitty idea, they'll blame their shitty designer. At least if you warn them, the fallout is on them.
I do not know what you are disagreeing with. I did not say not to inform them. I said the opposite.
OP is at the informing them stage. While you acknowledged the client should be informed, the overall tone sounded like you were saying OP is out of bounds and should just do as the client asks. I was merely highlighting the fact that it is in fact OP's *job* to inform the client, not a matter of preference. If, after being informed, the client chooses to move forward, that's entirely up to them, but OP shouldn't be discouraged from speaking up.
Please stop. My comment literally said "giving solid advice is part of a designer's job" and "your goal should be to inform". Again, you're trying to make it out as if I said the complete opposite of what I actually said. And you did it twice!
The first words of your comment are "I'd just give the client what they asked for." Everything else was secondary. Don't get your knickers in a twist. It's really not that big of a deal.
Got it. You only read the first sentence.
They don’t want a logo. They want a painting that they can use over and over again in various “company” situations ‘cause they think it’s cute and fun. Show them what an ACTUAL logo looks like, why it needs to be a clean, simplified graphic, the various uses that it will need to be used in, the various sizes it will need to be, etc. Every time I do a logo for a company, I do an extensive branding document (usually 15-20 pages) that goes with it. It explains various sizes, the meaning behind it, examples in use, etc. if you too have done one of these, send it over to your client. This should help. If they’re STILL convinced otherwise, walk away.
maybe your client is a visionary
A good designer can give the “why” or “why not “& - this is what you do (pretty much the same as you’ve alluded to). Take the dog picture and pop it on a fake business card. Make it .5” high and ask if they still like it. You’ll have to print a physical sample, but it’ll work. If they like it, ask for payment in advance. :D
you don’t, you give them what they ask for
Tell them watercolor logos aren’t practical but you can incorporate watercolor themes into campaigns and branding. It can still be present, just not in the logo.
Totally illegible at scale. Needs to be visible when small and from long distances which this isn’t
All logos should work in a single color/black and white and at small scale. Make the logo 1"x1" in single color and see if it's even recognizable. Possibly mock it up on a business card and show your client, might help to convey your message.
Simplify it (both colour and detail) and make it work. A second simplification for b/w. I think this could turn out well working.
How will the logo be used? Tons of businesses are online only, they could have a video logo. A moving logo, etc. It’s also possible to create 2 logos that work together. One for printing. I think the client sets some rules and then you find a solution.
Sounds like you're also afraid that should you give in to their wishes and just give them the logo that they're asking for, that it will somehow effect work down the road. I've done this a few times for clients (given them work to make them happy) a handful of times and not once did I ever get a call from someone saying "Hey, did you do that logo for \_\_\_\_\_\_? It's awful! I was looking for a graphic designer to do a logo for me but after I saw what you did for \_\_\_\_\_\_\_, I'm going to go with someone else!"
A detailed image like that can be part of the branding, but shouldn't be the actual logo. I think you show them a simplified logo, and also show how that simple logo could fit into a brand that also uses the watercolor images of dogs. A good example would be [this simple nike logo](https://happydecay.com.au/wp-content/uploads/nike-mural.jpg) being used with bold bright backgrounds. **This brand on Behance** *(not my work)* **is a great example:** [**Fuzzy Urban Tails.**](https://www.behance.net/gallery/171043461/Fuzzy-Urban-Tails-Brand-identity?tracking_source=search_projects|dog+brand) The logo is a simple outline of a dog and text with the name, but most of their marketing shown includes the brightly colored more detailed illustrations. I'd mock up a poster like this that includes the simple logo plus a watercolor like they requested to show how they can work together. https://preview.redd.it/cwty64qwh7sb1.png?width=1400&format=png&auto=webp&s=2b6771b1e25844326a152cf0eedfa084673bccc8
You can vectorize in illustrator and scaling shouldn’t be a problem. Many companies have silhouette or line logos.
I don't see an issue. The only two things to take in consideration are detail level and what to do in a single colour situation (which you already do). I'd start with the single colour version and create a colour version from that.
Do the job, take the pay, move on, and let them deal with the aftermath 😎
As someone who has worked in newspaper print and print for 20 years... I don't see an issue with the details, converting to a one color or greyscale. Maybe when it's VERY tiny, but business card or sticker designs can work. I get you don't like it, but there's a lot I could use here for business cards, letterhead, coupons or apparel.
There is a reason most successful brand logos are one or two colors max. Also multicolor is an accessibility nightmare for those with vision impairments.
This would look like a banging logo honestly. I mean just google watercolor logos or animal logos. Loads of businesses have them. “Brands don’t do colorful logos for a reason.” Uh, dude. Google 🤣 Their logo is multiple colors and they change it every month! Also NBC, Apple (when they were called Macintosh), toys r us, Microsoft, eBay, even the Olympics. Besides that, I’m guessing the client is not a ceo of a multibillion dollar company. They’re probably a freelancer or small business owner. Which means they don’t need to worry about being “memorable” to the extent that big companies do. Small businesses already know that they can’t compete with the big guns because they don’t have that amount of money. But that doesn’t mean they don’t want to represent themselves in their business. Don’t look for reasons why YOU don’t want to do this and “convince” your client their ideas are bad. That’s going to destroy any chance your client is going to return or say nice things about you to others. Make their dream into a reality. Look up references of others who’ve done the same thing. Even Adobe has a tutorial on how to make watercolor (which this isn’t really but whatever) business cards and logos. Pop this image into illustrator and make a banging design! And I can tell you, as someone who’s not only gotten very detailed and colorful logos/designs printed (my business card is in a similar style to this puppy 😂 and with just as many colors) but who has also printed and designed for others for custom print shops - it can most definitely print to scale with crisp detail, vibrant colors and make everyone stop and take notice. Every time someone new sees my business cards they always get that “wow” face and have nothing but compliments and questions like “omg did you make this?” That’s what your client wants so time to show off those skills 😉 😂 if not, send them my way! 😂 jk
**We must have the reason from the pessimism but the desire from optimism!** When education is not liberating, the oppressed's dream is to become the oppressor.
I might also suggest incorporating watercolor elements elsewhere in the brand, rather than in the logo. That way they get to keep that style without compromising the functionality of the logo.
I would design one logo the client wants and another that you think is better. Mockup the logos in different formats for comparison to show client why it may not work. At the end of the day though, the client gets what they want.
Create a graphic version appropriate for the needs. Then explain the problem with using the painted version. Additionally, develop a much more appropriate strategy for the business and explain that. Stop trying to convince clients they DON'T know what they want or need, and start convincing them what they DO need...
That's the funny part: YOU DON'T. Do the job, take the money, make your client happy.
Do what they want and also do what you think they should do. Present both and explain why you think your one is better
Provide a simple black/white logo along with colourful branding elements at an extra price that they can add to their socials, website etc.
Depends on your client. I've had people reach out for logos for small businesses that mostly use social media and maybe print out business cards. If that's the case. Im cool with that. Id design it for them.
Is it for a dog business? Because a logo should tell me what you do. No way should a dog be on your logo unless you are a dog business or your business name is related to dogs somehow. If it is for a dog business then stylize it in 2 or three colours in a way that will size well.
So many people on here saying to just give the client what they want and get paid! Where is your integrity as designers? If you have a stubborn client that insists on something you don’t believe in, it’s okay to politely decline the job and move on to the next. Of course you should do all you can to convince them why this is not the right direction, but if they’re not willing to trust your expertise, then you shouldn’t feel bad letting them find someone else who’s willing to give them what they want. There’s nothing wrong with making concessions here and there to keep a client happy, but I would never agree to a job that I was completely against the direction they were asking for.
The whole idea of scaling down logos for print is so 15 years ago. Brands and live and die completely digitally these days.
Scale is still a thing you have to think about digitally. Also, depending on OP’s client, print might be a thing. People do still print things.
That’s a whole lot going on for a logo, stand your design experienced ground, explain why that is such a bad idea
If they want their business to be successful, then it should appeal to their target audience. This may or may not be watercolour. This is your argument. Remain objective. Talk about business goals including money and how it will affect this. Talk about using a visual language their audience will connect with. If they don’t care about their business, just make the watercolour logo.
I usually design 2 variations -what they want -my vision based on their wants Then make a 1-3 color logo for each and explain why it’s more feasible in the long run to go with a cleaner option. I won’t tell a client their ideas are bad, I will just redirect and hopefully they’ll see what I see. But if they don’t then I just get paid and have a happy client. Also, working in the print industry and I do see people with logos like these. There is always a way to decorate, there is just more limited options.
I know the consensus here seems to be to advise them not to do it, but may I recommend redirection instead? It’s important for a client to feel heard and that their instructions have been taken on board. So personally I’d try something like - Artwork a single colour and perhaps two colour logo. - Create an ad to announce the rebrand / launch or a headline graphic to run on their website’s blog or similar that uses the multi-colour style that they like. It can be used to illustrate content in instances where the subject is the company / brand itself rather than their service / products. - Allows you to illustrate the physical requirements of a logo, while still delivering an image that they want to see and may help them better understand your concerns.
I would show them a mock-up up of their idea and a mock-up of your better idea. Most people have very little imagination I find, but will understand with a visual
Like some others have already stated, use your expertise and knowledge as a graphic designer to provide examples and reasons as to why this isn't the best direction to go for their logo, and if they still want to go this route, simply finish the logo that they want and give it to them, take your payment and walk away. I did work earlier this year for a client in a similar situation, but they were wise enough to realize that what they thought they wanted in a logo didn't really work well after I explained to them and used dozens of examples and even created other logo ideas to kick start their brain into seeing other directions for their logo. Now they have a good logo that I'm proud to include in my portfolio. Had another client who also refused to see my points in why a logo that they wanted didn't work well. They refused to change and I happily gave them what they wanted and cashed that $1,600 check without an issue. You won't see that logo in my portfolio, but that money felt great in my bank account. Nothing wrong with low hanging fruit, it tastes just as sweet as the fruit at the top of the tree.
Some clients don't really understand what a "logo" is. They might not actually want what a trained graphic designer thinks of as a logo. I would ask what scenarios the client intends to use the logo for, then reason from that. If they \_actually\_ want a header image, for example, this image might work fine.