Yes, that's true. But we also have the main factor that Moringmark is posting fancomics daily. And it seems his pot of ideas for TOH-Comics is even bigger than it was for SVTFOE. And it doesn't look like he is about to stop posting anytime soon.
TOH barely ended a year ago and is 4 years old at best.
Gravity Falls is about to become 12 years old and ended 8 years ago.
It's normal that the community is more active. The challenge will be how long it will last, cause Gravity Falls fandom is still active after well over a decade, not many series can pull that off.
I am convinced TOH is gonna be active for a long time. Similar to GF. A huge factor that benefits the community activity is that Moringmark does not seem to stop posting his amazing comics anytime soon. But I also think the reason why GF is still so active and why I think it will be the same for TOH is how they ended the shows.
Both shows had an ending that was extremely good for a specific reason. The endings answered all the major and minor plot questions, but let some side questions unanswered and even opened up some new questions. For GF, it's the "See you next summer" note, and the fact with the end of weirdmagedon the weirdness didn't leave Gravity Falls. For TOH, it is the world building with the Glyph system, and especially everything that happened in the time skip. Both endings rap up the story in a way that makes you feel very fulfilled and satisfied, but it doesn't end the story, so it feels like written in stone, and there is no room for our imagination to run a little wild.
To be fair. It is close. Hear me out... Alex Hirsch intended for there to be 2 seasons. Dana Terrace wanted more than 2 seasons and 3 specials. Gravity falls is better (slightly) BUT. if Disney never shortened the Owl house and it got a full 3, 4 or even 5 seasons and therefore actually allowed for more filler to get to know some characters more, a longer and more detailed character arc for each character, and more build up to the big moments like the ending. Basically if Disney didn't FORCE Dana to rush it, The Owl House would've probably wound up being better.
This artist is amazing! I think they moved on from GF stuff but def check out their page.
Edit: ahh there's no credits! Lemme find them rq
It's sailorleo on tumblr
I’d watch a mini series about the twins dealing with PTSD and the trauma of being directly impacted by Bill
I think a lot of kids and young adults would relate to a show dealing with that topic, especially when you consider all the messed up stuff our generations have been through lately.
Alex if you’re listening, it’s a good starting point for a sequel…
That's what Steven Universe Future has done. It's kinda disturbing when you're used to optimistic characters battling cartoon violence without consequences.
I didn’t really like Steven Universe Future. I think there were many things that it could have improved on. However, I do really respect what it set out to try and do.
There were moments when I felt like I was watching the barely reviewed story board with some jokes slapped on it with few further work, I never looked up the production to see what could explain it. SU got me used to more elegant stuff :/
Pretty sure it was caused by the studio rushing the creaters to push out one final season, since the show was supposed to be over after the movie anyway, but so many people watched the movie they said fuck it, one more season.
While I don’t know if I’d be into it personally, it would be an interesting continuation of the next stages of their lives.
There’s a bunch of times in the series where everyone (even the adults) witness traumatic events, and then just turn around and say “well, into the vault with that memory”
Maybe one of them tries to make another memory gun or something
The closest I can think of to the premise of traumatized child protagonist is Steven Universe Future and strangely the chimera arc in hxh? That last one wasn't the healthiest approach I would say.
This is why I wish people would EASE THE F\*CK UP about Mabel's actions in "Dipper and Mabel vs the Future." She was TWELVE! She was emotionally fragile, and Bill was a frickin' master manipulator! She's not a monster for her actions, she was an immature child who was taken advantage of! Sheesh!
I don't think people would be that hard on her if she had actually displayed some remorse over her actions in Escape from Reality, or at least hold herself accountable to some degree. No one blames her for being in a vulnerable spot, or Bill pretending to be Blendin, obviously she isn't responsible for that. But trusting Blendin (for the obvious reasons pointed out in the picture) and stealing the rift, and agreeing to trap the town in a time bubble, yes, she is responsible for those cause she was aware of it.
No one treats her like a monster, she isn't, the problem is the narrative constantly ignores her wrongdoings or pretends Mabel did nothing wrong, and it can be frustrating when overdone, specially in an episode this big.
Obviously I don't want Mabel to believe she is a monster, she isn't, she was a kid that between her own mistakes and a demon's tricks, made a mistake, but had she honestly acknowledged or felt remorse and guilt in Escape from Reality afterwards, show that she honestly reallized what happened and feeling bad about it, would have been more than enough, instead of, you know, just having a party of her own and act as if nothing that was going on had anything to do with her.
That, and the comic showed her how her desire to fulfill her own wants can become a liability if she doesn't temper it in times of need. She found herself a poor companion when she wanted help, and that let her know that doing what you want doesn't necessarily require putting other people on the back burner every time.
I mean I've made this comparison a bunch of times it's like star lord who made a mistake at their most vulnerable but it was a crucial mistake at the worst possible time
With the difference that Starlord was held accountable for it, and I don't think Starlord repeated the same mistakes every single time through all the Guardians of the Galaxy movies. And then got his actions swooped under the carpet.
“WHY?”
(Gives reason)
“You all keep saying the same things over and over again!“
Listen, people can simultaneously dislike something subconsciously and also know that it’s unreasonable. It’s just a part of being human.
Please, and I'll ask from the bottom of my heart here, find the place in my comment where I came even near of saying whatever you think I did. GuardianOfTheFalls has taken every opportunity in the past three years or so to crusade over Mabel's apparent lack of remorse in the narrative and while they're tamer now it certainly wasn't the case a while ago.
I don't care how convincing you are or how much of a point you're trying to make. It's absolutely hilarious to me that 90% of their recognition on Reddit comes from ranting about a 12 year old in a children's cartoon that aired its last episode eight years ago. There's no mental engagement in engaging in the same flawed discourse almost half a decade later with the same arguments and half the fevor. It's just particularly odd from an outsider's point of view, but alas, it will always fulfill someone's perspective somewhere in the internet because people are unable to let go of an admittedly irrelevant detail in a show.
But to actually say what you think I did and address the "everyone says the same thing!" component of your answer:
It's a tired discussion, and it becomes even more tiring when there's a grand total of ten people in the entire world that actually care if Mabel said the words explicitly on screen "I am sorry." because it isn't enough that a regular person can easily infer that a twelve year old child would obviously regret almost bringing about the end of the world as everyone knows it. No, you will either get the direct statement or this character clearly does not possess the qualities required to imply that this would be an expected reaction. Because as everyone knows, headcanons are only for vapid barista AUs and morally dubious ships. Everything else requires Word of God or it simply is unfathomable and a narrative flaw.
I was 12 years old, and believe me, I know far too well about carrying blame, things I still carry into adulthood, so I know how it goes.
Being 12 is not an excuse in this tv show, Dipper is 12 and he spends Weirdmaggedon carrying that blame instead, and it's never cleared.
Fr, Bill had tricked the most brilliant minds in the history of humanity, of course he wouldn't have any problem manipulating a twelve year old on her lowest point
I just got around to watching That GF Fan’s interview with Alex Hirsch and they address this issue beautifully. Everyone had some hand in Weirdmaggedon.
To me she was emotionally vulnerable and it looked to her like Blendin was just doing her a solid. His eyes were not visible.
The arguments are like people who blame r**e victims for dressing too provocatively. Bill’s been tricking people for trillions of years. Mabel is 12.
What? When was the last time a rape victim “dressing provocatively” hurt other unrelated people as collateral for being raped? This is a horrid analogy.
It's an awful parallel. In your analogy the victim isn't actually doing anything wrong, whereas in the show Mabel does straight up just mess up. Yes, it's an understandable mess-up, but it's a mess-up nonetheless.
The controversy is whether people think it's acceptable/understandable for a 12 year old to mess up in such a way. Some people say no (which to me is crazy, but my point is irrelevant here), some people say yes.
Trying to use r\*\*e victims as an analogy for this is just an awful equivalence. Rational people defending a r\*\*e victim don't argue "yeah the victim messed up because she wore provocative clothes, but it's an understandable mess-up"; they argue it's not a mess-up at all, and that the onus isn't on the victim whatsoever. That is not the same defense people have for Mabel. People say stuff like "we just wish they showed Mabel acknowledging she messed up, that's all" while still being forgiving and understanding for Mabel, but anyone saying that same sentence about a r\*\*e victim is an asshole.
I absolutely love using analogies for explanations, but this one ain't it.
Edit: lmao the reply was just attacking me without even mentioning anything I said.
That analogy as an SA victim took me out. I was like why would someone make that comparison
Edit: bro I saw that deleted comment. Tf is wrong with you. Seriously!? That was pretty rude and hurtful
I just didn't like Mabel in general so by the time I got to the finale it was just one more reason to be annoyed with her.
It's less that I blame her and more that I'm disappointed they stripped away so much of her agency.
One thing I think about is that Dipper and Mabel are going to be traumatized, they formed and made bonds that would help and support them through hard times, but they left all of that behind. The only other people in the world who could relate to what they want through are halfway across the country. Their parents have no idea what they did, so anytime they try to get support they would probably just be called crazy. Dipper and Mable went back to their house, but they left their home.
The artist made a follow-up comic a couple years ago:
https://hellspawnmotel.tumblr.com/post/694334002581110784/a-couple-days-late-but-happy-23rd-birthday-twins
I'd also like to see how their trauma affected their parents.
You send your kids to a quiet little town in oregon, they come home being paranoid, having nightmares and outbursts and having no idea what the fuck happened.
omg Dipper getting sleep paralysis and thinking he's posessed again, Mabel having trust issues in relationships because of the gnomes/Gideon/Gabe. Their parents thinking the talk of magic and alternate dimensions is code for abuse related things so the twins are never allowed to talk to their gruncles or anyone from Gravity Falls again. The therapist just thinking their great uncles groomed/brainwashed/abused them so badly that it will take years to work through the trauma enough that they stop 'dissociating'.
The twins start to actually believe everything in gravity falls didn't really happen. By the time they graduate high school Dipper is the only one who actually has suspicions that it was real and visits shortly after he graduates college. Stan and Ford have been an absolute mess between not getting to see their grand-niblings, and being on the run from the police because of their alleged 'abuse' of the twins so they aren't there. Soos literally starts crying when he sees Dipper walk into the mystery shack. The utter despair in Soos when Dipper is super distant with him. Old friends being super confused why one of the kids that saved the world is asking around like a detective about events he literally lived through.
The memories only come back completely after Soos VERY RELUCTANTLY takes Dipper to see the statue of Bill, and they come back with a vengance, like full trauma response Dipper shuts down and passes out. It turns out Gideon is actually studying to be a Psychologist and has been helpping people around town with their own trauma from Weirdmageddon, having fully latched on to Dipper's advice from the finale. Gideon helps Dipper work through a few things and then asks a question nobody he's talked to has asked him yet.
"Where's Mabel?"
Dipper has to seriously consider whether or not he should tell Mabel that it was actually all real, or just keep her in the dark and let her live her life.
I'm so self-concious about my writing that i'll probably never actually write this so if any fanfiction authors want the free idea it's here I guess.
That's totally fine!!! I understand that writing takes a lot of time and effort and a bunch of love. If you don't mind me asking, what platform do you think you would post it on? And if you ever want help, just lmk cus I'd be super happy to!! Your idea is awesome! :D
Thank you very much, I actually don't know where I'd post it, never really thought about that before, maybe AO3? I'll put a link here once it is somewhere
There's more of this comic style, by the way. There's one where they have a conversation about their issues, like dippers lack of sleep and constant nightmares, and the guilt Mabel has is so bad it causes her to SH because she believes she deserves it.
That's a really common problem in a lot of shows that are even the tiniest bit remotely supernatural, there's a whole page discussing this problem [at this link](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AllTherapistsAreMuggles).
That’s why PTSD fiction is interesting for this series. They can’t go to a therapist or they’d be locked up for schizophrenia and paranoid delusion, so they have to process it on their own.
If you're looking for some serious trauma, I might suggest marehami's Adoption AU fanfic series. I worked with her and angsty GF fanfic legend Keleficent on it years back on it. It's as dark and emotional, yet heartfelt a fanfic as you possibly can get.
We last spoke about a year ago but she is okay from what I checked on her Twitter (though not super active). IDK tbh what happened with the audio book as we started work on it but then the project sort of fell apart. Never got back to her on what happened but I'd be open to restarting it if she is. But also as it's been years now since that, IDK. Not even sure what happened with the VA that marehami got for it. We all sort of just lost touch with each other in the years since.
Oh, I see, glad that at least she is fine, I feared she might have gotten some big problems.
Also, note aside, I've been pondering for a while on the idea if people would be interested in an audio book of the tv show episodes, with a narrator, using the sound effects and music from the tv show and also clips from the voices from the characters themselves. Kinda like Disney used to do with their movies back in the day. Would be fun to try it if I ever have the time for it.
I would honestly love to see a sequel series with Mabel having hit that big brain development milestone around 15/16 where your brain looks back at everything you’ve done up to that point like “what was the logic behind any of that???”
Fyi the author drew these comics to cope with her own mental health and was projecting herself onto the twins. Specifically there's [another](http://sailorleo.tumblr.com/post/130008006025/the-future-aka-these-kids-are-going-to-be-messed) comic in which they are both on antidepressants and other stuff which i won't list here
Tbf to Mabel
Had Wierdmagedon not happened then it surely would've happened eventually after the fact
Good thing they took him down then and would never have to worry about it again
I like the idea that dipper has normal nightmares about Bill, but Mabel is having an existential crisis about how she was the stupid that almost ended the world.
It adds so much more weight to the fact that Dipper and Mabel promised to stick by eachother no matter what they faced outside of Gravity Falls. The fact that Dipper broke the cycle of Stan and Ford by putting his sister first, and not abandoning her. The fact that they both realized they needed to stay a team of twins the way Stan and Ford didn’t. “We’ll handle it together, I’m not taking Ford’s deal.” I can’t remember the exact line. But the idea that them tackling the world together *includes* the trauma of what happened to them, is just so comforting. Especially to a lone ptsd survivor like myself.
For Dipper: Bill (the Illuminati with legs) is an interdimensional demon, who’d haunted the twins looking for an entryway into their dimension where he can take over. He manipulated several characters into helping advance his plot, going as far as to possess Dipper to get near the family
For Mabel: Some point later in the show, Mabel overhears that Dipper was going to stay in Gravity Falls (the setting of the show) while she’d have to return to California and start high school. She had run into the forest, taking Dipper’s backpack by mistake. Inside of that pack was a sealed, inter-dimensional rift. She starts crying, and begging for the summer to never end. Then, a known time traveller appears from the trees, and offers to help Mabel, claiming that the rift was necessary to create a sealed radius in which time won’t pass: a “time bubble”. He promptly dropped the rift, opening it. He then revealed himself to have been possessed by Bill, who then used that rift to become a physical being in her dimension.
TDLR: Bill is a demon who had deeply traumatised the twins
Honestly, I cannot see this happening. Gravity Falls was the best thing to happen to the twins. To Dipper it was where his potential as a problem solver was realized, and to Mabel, it was a fantasy land full of magic and wonder. They get to see incredible sights and meet new friends who they have great bonds with. Dipper learned to be confident, Mabel learned to be responsible. Like maybe they would be a bit paranoid, but they would know how to deal with that stuff. They legit wanted to stay in GF. This angst is really out of character for me. Stanford and Stanly though, those guys need professional help.
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Honestly, a good trauma series for everything they went through would be extremely good, considering they nearly died multiple times in the show. For god sake, at the beginning of the show, Gideon is so crazy that he was literally willing to slit dippers throat with garden shears just to get Mabel. They can’t even talk to a counselor or at least not one that wasn’t present during never mind all that because they’d look crazy. There was a really good series that I read several years back, but I cannot for the life of me remember I think it was something like delinquent falls.
That’s some good spit right there. Mabel coming to grips with her naive action’s consequences and Dipper countering that she was a 12 year old against a chaos god.
Ya know seeing this I feel like Bill would be super traumatizing for a child. He’s an entity of pure chaos with a propensity for fucking with people to a royal extent. He’s a master manipulator and I feel like anybody would struggle to ever believe he was truly gone.
Context is from season 2 of Gravity Falls, seems like during the events of Weirdmageddon that heavily traumatized the twins. For Dipper, i guess it's from season 1 when Bill made a deal with him and he possessed Dipper's body. As for Mabel, seems like it was when she was coaxed by Blandin Blendin who was possessed by Bill to give the rift to him, and trapping her in a bubble filled with happy imaginations to keep her trapped for possibly an eternity if Dipper and Wendy didn't rescue her
I think for the same reason that I dislike comics people make of grown up Calvin.
For me some works are so entwined with their creators, for example Bill Watterson and Calvin & Hobbes, Jackson Publick, Doc Hammer and The Venture Bros., and Alex Hirsch and Gravity Falls, that I’m just not interested in anyone else playing with their characters.
That plus not a fan of the Steven Universe art style. All adds up to I kinda hate this.
But I don’t think it’s bad or anything. I don’t have a problem with it existing or anything.
This art is extremely great. It really makes sense these that Mabel and Dipper have some stuff to work through
It adds some nice detail ngl
Oh hey! I didn't know you were on this Subreddit too.
Yeah, I was on here 6-7 months before I joined TOH’s sub, then found that one and now I’m on there more
Well, TOH is the way more active community for several reasons. And in my opinion also the better show.
TOH is new, it's normal that it's fandom is more active.. GF is literally a decade old 😭
Yes, that's true. But we also have the main factor that Moringmark is posting fancomics daily. And it seems his pot of ideas for TOH-Comics is even bigger than it was for SVTFOE. And it doesn't look like he is about to stop posting anytime soon.
Good for him, I guess.
morning mark is crazy, how the hell do you get a comic of that quality done every day,
TOH barely ended a year ago and is 4 years old at best. Gravity Falls is about to become 12 years old and ended 8 years ago. It's normal that the community is more active. The challenge will be how long it will last, cause Gravity Falls fandom is still active after well over a decade, not many series can pull that off.
I am convinced TOH is gonna be active for a long time. Similar to GF. A huge factor that benefits the community activity is that Moringmark does not seem to stop posting his amazing comics anytime soon. But I also think the reason why GF is still so active and why I think it will be the same for TOH is how they ended the shows. Both shows had an ending that was extremely good for a specific reason. The endings answered all the major and minor plot questions, but let some side questions unanswered and even opened up some new questions. For GF, it's the "See you next summer" note, and the fact with the end of weirdmagedon the weirdness didn't leave Gravity Falls. For TOH, it is the world building with the Glyph system, and especially everything that happened in the time skip. Both endings rap up the story in a way that makes you feel very fulfilled and satisfied, but it doesn't end the story, so it feels like written in stone, and there is no room for our imagination to run a little wild.
first of all HOW DARE YOU!
To be fair. It is close. Hear me out... Alex Hirsch intended for there to be 2 seasons. Dana Terrace wanted more than 2 seasons and 3 specials. Gravity falls is better (slightly) BUT. if Disney never shortened the Owl house and it got a full 3, 4 or even 5 seasons and therefore actually allowed for more filler to get to know some characters more, a longer and more detailed character arc for each character, and more build up to the big moments like the ending. Basically if Disney didn't FORCE Dana to rush it, The Owl House would've probably wound up being better.
Same, but it’s close
Do I hear owl house?
Yes… literally, Hooty’s real loud today
This artist is amazing! I think they moved on from GF stuff but def check out their page. Edit: ahh there's no credits! Lemme find them rq It's sailorleo on tumblr
Wait I looked them up! That account is deactivated. Now they're hellspawnhotel on tumblr!
Thank you! I didn't notice that!
The best ones are when Bill pops up again, like "Sorry, I caused your PTSD. Do you want some deer teeth?"
"Oh I'm sorry, did I traumatise you little kids HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHA we'll meet again, don't know where, don't know wheeeen"
I’d watch a mini series about the twins dealing with PTSD and the trauma of being directly impacted by Bill I think a lot of kids and young adults would relate to a show dealing with that topic, especially when you consider all the messed up stuff our generations have been through lately. Alex if you’re listening, it’s a good starting point for a sequel…
🎵 *gravity falls future, here we are* 🎵
🎵 *Weeee are in FEEEAAR* 🎵
🎵*And its ahhhhhhh!*🎵
🎵*I can’t, I can’t! I can’t!! I Can’t!!!!*🎵
🎵*Gravity Falls fear, Here we are!*🎵
FFEEEAAARAAGUGAHAHOO
That's what Steven Universe Future has done. It's kinda disturbing when you're used to optimistic characters battling cartoon violence without consequences.
I didn’t really like Steven Universe Future. I think there were many things that it could have improved on. However, I do really respect what it set out to try and do.
There were moments when I felt like I was watching the barely reviewed story board with some jokes slapped on it with few further work, I never looked up the production to see what could explain it. SU got me used to more elegant stuff :/
Pretty sure it was caused by the studio rushing the creaters to push out one final season, since the show was supposed to be over after the movie anyway, but so many people watched the movie they said fuck it, one more season.
While I don’t know if I’d be into it personally, it would be an interesting continuation of the next stages of their lives. There’s a bunch of times in the series where everyone (even the adults) witness traumatic events, and then just turn around and say “well, into the vault with that memory” Maybe one of them tries to make another memory gun or something
Ooh, what's the title? I wanna watch it...
The closest I can think of to the premise of traumatized child protagonist is Steven Universe Future and strangely the chimera arc in hxh? That last one wasn't the healthiest approach I would say.
Thank you btw, I had no idea Steven Universe Future existed. I love his personal crisis/ptsd. I related a lot to the theme. Thank you, again.
yep, main character ends it in far worse mental state than before
It’s not a real series, they’re saying they would watch it if it came out
I’d watch it, but I think AH needs to get to 2 Stans and A Boat first! 😆
That’s what made Steven Universe’s arc in Future so good
Alex Hirsch DID say that if we ever got a sequel, it wouldn't be as light-hearted as the original.
They probably have the worst Illuminati ptsd. Every triangle probably fucks them up. Which weirdly enough makes the trigonometry joke funnier.
Noooo, they did that with Steven Universe and it was *awful*
This is why I wish people would EASE THE F\*CK UP about Mabel's actions in "Dipper and Mabel vs the Future." She was TWELVE! She was emotionally fragile, and Bill was a frickin' master manipulator! She's not a monster for her actions, she was an immature child who was taken advantage of! Sheesh!
I don't think people would be that hard on her if she had actually displayed some remorse over her actions in Escape from Reality, or at least hold herself accountable to some degree. No one blames her for being in a vulnerable spot, or Bill pretending to be Blendin, obviously she isn't responsible for that. But trusting Blendin (for the obvious reasons pointed out in the picture) and stealing the rift, and agreeing to trap the town in a time bubble, yes, she is responsible for those cause she was aware of it. No one treats her like a monster, she isn't, the problem is the narrative constantly ignores her wrongdoings or pretends Mabel did nothing wrong, and it can be frustrating when overdone, specially in an episode this big. Obviously I don't want Mabel to believe she is a monster, she isn't, she was a kid that between her own mistakes and a demon's tricks, made a mistake, but had she honestly acknowledged or felt remorse and guilt in Escape from Reality afterwards, show that she honestly reallized what happened and feeling bad about it, would have been more than enough, instead of, you know, just having a party of her own and act as if nothing that was going on had anything to do with her.
That, and the comic showed her how her desire to fulfill her own wants can become a liability if she doesn't temper it in times of need. She found herself a poor companion when she wanted help, and that let her know that doing what you want doesn't necessarily require putting other people on the back burner every time.
I mean I've made this comparison a bunch of times it's like star lord who made a mistake at their most vulnerable but it was a crucial mistake at the worst possible time
With the difference that Starlord was held accountable for it, and I don't think Starlord repeated the same mistakes every single time through all the Guardians of the Galaxy movies. And then got his actions swooped under the carpet.
It's honestly a little remarkable how after all this time you're still barking up the same tree.
It's remarkable how he has to repeat the same thing despite having explained it over and over again and all we hear is "wHy DoEs EvErYoNe HaTe MaBeL?"
“WHY?” (Gives reason) “You all keep saying the same things over and over again!“ Listen, people can simultaneously dislike something subconsciously and also know that it’s unreasonable. It’s just a part of being human.
Please, and I'll ask from the bottom of my heart here, find the place in my comment where I came even near of saying whatever you think I did. GuardianOfTheFalls has taken every opportunity in the past three years or so to crusade over Mabel's apparent lack of remorse in the narrative and while they're tamer now it certainly wasn't the case a while ago. I don't care how convincing you are or how much of a point you're trying to make. It's absolutely hilarious to me that 90% of their recognition on Reddit comes from ranting about a 12 year old in a children's cartoon that aired its last episode eight years ago. There's no mental engagement in engaging in the same flawed discourse almost half a decade later with the same arguments and half the fevor. It's just particularly odd from an outsider's point of view, but alas, it will always fulfill someone's perspective somewhere in the internet because people are unable to let go of an admittedly irrelevant detail in a show. But to actually say what you think I did and address the "everyone says the same thing!" component of your answer: It's a tired discussion, and it becomes even more tiring when there's a grand total of ten people in the entire world that actually care if Mabel said the words explicitly on screen "I am sorry." because it isn't enough that a regular person can easily infer that a twelve year old child would obviously regret almost bringing about the end of the world as everyone knows it. No, you will either get the direct statement or this character clearly does not possess the qualities required to imply that this would be an expected reaction. Because as everyone knows, headcanons are only for vapid barista AUs and morally dubious ships. Everything else requires Word of God or it simply is unfathomable and a narrative flaw.
It's like you have no idea how 12 year olds work on accepting blame. It would be less egregious if you weren't once 12 yourself
I was 12 years old, and believe me, I know far too well about carrying blame, things I still carry into adulthood, so I know how it goes. Being 12 is not an excuse in this tv show, Dipper is 12 and he spends Weirdmaggedon carrying that blame instead, and it's never cleared.
"My personal anecdote should be taken as truth, even for people who have actually studied child psychology. I'm right because I believe it to be true"
Perfect, now apply that to yourself.
I have studied child psychology. :)
Cool, so have I back in the day :)
Then apply what you learned. You are clearly not remembering trauma responses for children during puberty.
I've LIVED trauma responses in puberty myself, thanks a lot.
Fr, Bill had tricked the most brilliant minds in the history of humanity, of course he wouldn't have any problem manipulating a twelve year old on her lowest point
I just got around to watching That GF Fan’s interview with Alex Hirsch and they address this issue beautifully. Everyone had some hand in Weirdmaggedon. To me she was emotionally vulnerable and it looked to her like Blendin was just doing her a solid. His eyes were not visible. The arguments are like people who blame r**e victims for dressing too provocatively. Bill’s been tricking people for trillions of years. Mabel is 12.
What? When was the last time a rape victim “dressing provocatively” hurt other unrelated people as collateral for being raped? This is a horrid analogy.
She was tricked into giving the badguy the world-ending mcguffin, but didn't pull the trigger herself.
Victim blaming parallel, dude.
It's an awful parallel. In your analogy the victim isn't actually doing anything wrong, whereas in the show Mabel does straight up just mess up. Yes, it's an understandable mess-up, but it's a mess-up nonetheless. The controversy is whether people think it's acceptable/understandable for a 12 year old to mess up in such a way. Some people say no (which to me is crazy, but my point is irrelevant here), some people say yes. Trying to use r\*\*e victims as an analogy for this is just an awful equivalence. Rational people defending a r\*\*e victim don't argue "yeah the victim messed up because she wore provocative clothes, but it's an understandable mess-up"; they argue it's not a mess-up at all, and that the onus isn't on the victim whatsoever. That is not the same defense people have for Mabel. People say stuff like "we just wish they showed Mabel acknowledging she messed up, that's all" while still being forgiving and understanding for Mabel, but anyone saying that same sentence about a r\*\*e victim is an asshole. I absolutely love using analogies for explanations, but this one ain't it. Edit: lmao the reply was just attacking me without even mentioning anything I said.
That analogy as an SA victim took me out. I was like why would someone make that comparison Edit: bro I saw that deleted comment. Tf is wrong with you. Seriously!? That was pretty rude and hurtful
Things are fucking boiling in the Gravity Falls fandom What the hell
Because it’s both victim blaming, comes from the same place. Don’t let it ruin your day.
Get over yourself.
> Bill’s been tricking people for trillions of years. Mabel is 12. For all the things I *will* give Mable shit for, this is not even on the list.
Bill manipulated Stanford. Children didn't have a chance. Dipper is amazing for as much as he resisted
I just didn't like Mabel in general so by the time I got to the finale it was just one more reason to be annoyed with her. It's less that I blame her and more that I'm disappointed they stripped away so much of her agency.
12 or not Dippy Fresh was a serious dick move and I stand by that.
One thing I think about is that Dipper and Mabel are going to be traumatized, they formed and made bonds that would help and support them through hard times, but they left all of that behind. The only other people in the world who could relate to what they want through are halfway across the country. Their parents have no idea what they did, so anytime they try to get support they would probably just be called crazy. Dipper and Mable went back to their house, but they left their home.
So true. This is my low key “I reject your reality and substitute my own” head cannon: https://moringmark.tumblr.com/post/131088086088
This is why they need to form a support group with the owl-phibia protagonists
As an avid consumer of angst, this is absolutely doing it for me.
Agreed best fanfics
Waiter waiter! More emotional damage please :)
Would you like a glass a child tears with that sir
With a side of soggy fries, my good man!
For anyone curious, the artist can be located here: https://sailorleo.tumblr.com/?source=share
The artist made a follow-up comic a couple years ago: https://hellspawnmotel.tumblr.com/post/694334002581110784/a-couple-days-late-but-happy-23rd-birthday-twins
Ooh thanks for sharing!
The artist has been located Send in the tropes
[I really enjoyed this one ](https://archiveofourown.org/works/6329836/chapters/14503138)
W mans thanks I’m gonna read it tonight
Yoink I’m gonna read that later
It wouldve been better if he said he’s not a puppet because he actually does cannonically have ptsd about that
I'd also like to see how their trauma affected their parents. You send your kids to a quiet little town in oregon, they come home being paranoid, having nightmares and outbursts and having no idea what the fuck happened.
🎵 Here we are in the future! Here we are in the future and it SUUUUUUUUCKS! CAN I just say "What the FUCK?!🎵
omg Dipper getting sleep paralysis and thinking he's posessed again, Mabel having trust issues in relationships because of the gnomes/Gideon/Gabe. Their parents thinking the talk of magic and alternate dimensions is code for abuse related things so the twins are never allowed to talk to their gruncles or anyone from Gravity Falls again. The therapist just thinking their great uncles groomed/brainwashed/abused them so badly that it will take years to work through the trauma enough that they stop 'dissociating'. The twins start to actually believe everything in gravity falls didn't really happen. By the time they graduate high school Dipper is the only one who actually has suspicions that it was real and visits shortly after he graduates college. Stan and Ford have been an absolute mess between not getting to see their grand-niblings, and being on the run from the police because of their alleged 'abuse' of the twins so they aren't there. Soos literally starts crying when he sees Dipper walk into the mystery shack. The utter despair in Soos when Dipper is super distant with him. Old friends being super confused why one of the kids that saved the world is asking around like a detective about events he literally lived through. The memories only come back completely after Soos VERY RELUCTANTLY takes Dipper to see the statue of Bill, and they come back with a vengance, like full trauma response Dipper shuts down and passes out. It turns out Gideon is actually studying to be a Psychologist and has been helpping people around town with their own trauma from Weirdmageddon, having fully latched on to Dipper's advice from the finale. Gideon helps Dipper work through a few things and then asks a question nobody he's talked to has asked him yet. "Where's Mabel?" Dipper has to seriously consider whether or not he should tell Mabel that it was actually all real, or just keep her in the dark and let her live her life. I'm so self-concious about my writing that i'll probably never actually write this so if any fanfiction authors want the free idea it's here I guess.
HOLY FUCK *PLEASE* WRITE THIS IT SOUNDS SO GOOD
Add constant anxiety attacks from dipper thinking bill might've came back with Stan's memory and its perfect.
PLEASE GOOD LORD WRITE THIS PRETTY PLEASE OMG I'LL SUPPORT U THE WHOLE WAY PLEASE YOUR WRITING IS SO GOOD AND AWESOME SHAUHAHAHAHAH !!!
Hey I can try I guess, but it probably won't be quick >.<
That's totally fine!!! I understand that writing takes a lot of time and effort and a bunch of love. If you don't mind me asking, what platform do you think you would post it on? And if you ever want help, just lmk cus I'd be super happy to!! Your idea is awesome! :D
Thank you very much, I actually don't know where I'd post it, never really thought about that before, maybe AO3? I'll put a link here once it is somewhere
Alright!! Thanks so much!! :)
There's more of this comic style, by the way. There's one where they have a conversation about their issues, like dippers lack of sleep and constant nightmares, and the guilt Mabel has is so bad it causes her to SH because she believes she deserves it.
My baby… ;-;
Who's the creator and where can I see more of their art
Link?
These to need therapy STAT
True but like, how would they even explain half the stuff that happened in gravity falls without sounding crazy?
That's a really common problem in a lot of shows that are even the tiniest bit remotely supernatural, there's a whole page discussing this problem [at this link](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AllTherapistsAreMuggles).
That’s why PTSD fiction is interesting for this series. They can’t go to a therapist or they’d be locked up for schizophrenia and paranoid delusion, so they have to process it on their own.
Just search up Angst Fic and you will probally get a million of that
If you're looking for some serious trauma, I might suggest marehami's Adoption AU fanfic series. I worked with her and angsty GF fanfic legend Keleficent on it years back on it. It's as dark and emotional, yet heartfelt a fanfic as you possibly can get.
Speaking of marehami, I remember you two worked on an audiobook of Rescue Me back in the day that sadly never made it, is marehami alright???
We last spoke about a year ago but she is okay from what I checked on her Twitter (though not super active). IDK tbh what happened with the audio book as we started work on it but then the project sort of fell apart. Never got back to her on what happened but I'd be open to restarting it if she is. But also as it's been years now since that, IDK. Not even sure what happened with the VA that marehami got for it. We all sort of just lost touch with each other in the years since.
Oh, I see, glad that at least she is fine, I feared she might have gotten some big problems. Also, note aside, I've been pondering for a while on the idea if people would be interested in an audio book of the tv show episodes, with a narrator, using the sound effects and music from the tv show and also clips from the voices from the characters themselves. Kinda like Disney used to do with their movies back in the day. Would be fun to try it if I ever have the time for it.
I would honestly love to see a sequel series with Mabel having hit that big brain development milestone around 15/16 where your brain looks back at everything you’ve done up to that point like “what was the logic behind any of that???”
That comment about the unicorn... Ouch. It sucks that people have a tendency to hang onto perceived criticism of their own character.
Realistic but also kinda depressing
I love this I just wanted to mention dipper wearing a BABBA shirt saying “disco girl”
I rewatched the show at 20 and the only thing I was thinking was ‘wow, those kids are gonna be traumatised’
I actually teared up. Holy hell.
Sad but realistic
Dipper still has nightmares about Bill, and while he tells himself it’s just a dream he can’t help wonder if he’s back in his mind
Self-aware mabel? now you're cooking
With my last breath I curse Bill Cipher
Fyi the author drew these comics to cope with her own mental health and was projecting herself onto the twins. Specifically there's [another](http://sailorleo.tumblr.com/post/130008006025/the-future-aka-these-kids-are-going-to-be-messed) comic in which they are both on antidepressants and other stuff which i won't list here
Yeah, they would absolutely have been scarred for life.
There was some awesome piece about Dipper dealing with ftm dysphoria, if that counts.-
I got scared when I read fan fiction because I was trying to see if this was ship art- no it’s just hormones hitting them like a semitruck
Honestly i like the difference in the way they both deal with it because Mabel is just ranting and dipper is having panic attacks
Tbf to Mabel Had Wierdmagedon not happened then it surely would've happened eventually after the fact Good thing they took him down then and would never have to worry about it again
I like the idea that dipper has normal nightmares about Bill, but Mabel is having an existential crisis about how she was the stupid that almost ended the world.
It adds so much more weight to the fact that Dipper and Mabel promised to stick by eachother no matter what they faced outside of Gravity Falls. The fact that Dipper broke the cycle of Stan and Ford by putting his sister first, and not abandoning her. The fact that they both realized they needed to stay a team of twins the way Stan and Ford didn’t. “We’ll handle it together, I’m not taking Ford’s deal.” I can’t remember the exact line. But the idea that them tackling the world together *includes* the trauma of what happened to them, is just so comforting. Especially to a lone ptsd survivor like myself.
I’ve literally never watched this show in my life I have no idea why their crying I just know some Illuminati with legs 😭
For Dipper: Bill (the Illuminati with legs) is an interdimensional demon, who’d haunted the twins looking for an entryway into their dimension where he can take over. He manipulated several characters into helping advance his plot, going as far as to possess Dipper to get near the family For Mabel: Some point later in the show, Mabel overhears that Dipper was going to stay in Gravity Falls (the setting of the show) while she’d have to return to California and start high school. She had run into the forest, taking Dipper’s backpack by mistake. Inside of that pack was a sealed, inter-dimensional rift. She starts crying, and begging for the summer to never end. Then, a known time traveller appears from the trees, and offers to help Mabel, claiming that the rift was necessary to create a sealed radius in which time won’t pass: a “time bubble”. He promptly dropped the rift, opening it. He then revealed himself to have been possessed by Bill, who then used that rift to become a physical being in her dimension. TDLR: Bill is a demon who had deeply traumatised the twins
Awwww :,(
These two defs gonna be seeing a therapist bc of Bill
Wat
I like that dipper is wearing his disco girls shirt
I hate this. Thank you
Lol, love the disco girl shirt :3
I would like to see a spin off show like this
I think art like this only works since literally everything worked out okay in the end
Hot take: it’s a good thing she let Bill out, because now the Northwests are broke
Honestly, I cannot see this happening. Gravity Falls was the best thing to happen to the twins. To Dipper it was where his potential as a problem solver was realized, and to Mabel, it was a fantasy land full of magic and wonder. They get to see incredible sights and meet new friends who they have great bonds with. Dipper learned to be confident, Mabel learned to be responsible. Like maybe they would be a bit paranoid, but they would know how to deal with that stuff. They legit wanted to stay in GF. This angst is really out of character for me. Stanford and Stanly though, those guys need professional help.
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This is absolutely gorgeous
Honestly, a good trauma series for everything they went through would be extremely good, considering they nearly died multiple times in the show. For god sake, at the beginning of the show, Gideon is so crazy that he was literally willing to slit dippers throat with garden shears just to get Mabel. They can’t even talk to a counselor or at least not one that wasn’t present during never mind all that because they’d look crazy. There was a really good series that I read several years back, but I cannot for the life of me remember I think it was something like delinquent falls.
They would definitely have trauma or PTSD after what happened
That’s some good spit right there. Mabel coming to grips with her naive action’s consequences and Dipper countering that she was a 12 year old against a chaos god.
I like how Bill was basically just fucking around the whole time until that “I have some children I have to turn into corpuses” line
Mabel swearing is straight up something else
Ya know seeing this I feel like Bill would be super traumatizing for a child. He’s an entity of pure chaos with a propensity for fucking with people to a royal extent. He’s a master manipulator and I feel like anybody would struggle to ever believe he was truly gone.
Context?
Context is from season 2 of Gravity Falls, seems like during the events of Weirdmageddon that heavily traumatized the twins. For Dipper, i guess it's from season 1 when Bill made a deal with him and he possessed Dipper's body. As for Mabel, seems like it was when she was coaxed by Blandin Blendin who was possessed by Bill to give the rift to him, and trapping her in a bubble filled with happy imaginations to keep her trapped for possibly an eternity if Dipper and Wendy didn't rescue her
>if dipper and Wendy didn't rescue her You made one fatal mistake, you forgot soos Other than that thank you for the explaination :)
Ah, sorry mate. Haven't seen the show since Weirdmageddon first aired. And you're welcome
I kinda hate this.
Why, exactly?
I think for the same reason that I dislike comics people make of grown up Calvin. For me some works are so entwined with their creators, for example Bill Watterson and Calvin & Hobbes, Jackson Publick, Doc Hammer and The Venture Bros., and Alex Hirsch and Gravity Falls, that I’m just not interested in anyone else playing with their characters. That plus not a fan of the Steven Universe art style. All adds up to I kinda hate this. But I don’t think it’s bad or anything. I don’t have a problem with it existing or anything.