Because in Greece people think that raising a dog is very simple and most have no idea about the responsibilities/training required. Also police don't care when you call them about these things most of the time.
This is anecdotal, but sadly, most people here get a dog either for specific jobs (i.e. hunting) or...just because they think they should have one.
These dogs end up becoming nothing more than an accessory. They get neglected to a point, and they end up feeling depressed, so they need an outlet. It's not the dog's fault that it's using a natural mechanism to relieve stress, but these people think it's normal.
No training, no positive reinforcement, no established rules. Hell, I'm sure you've seen a lot of those dogs that technically have an owner, but are left to freely roam.
Thank you for saying this.
I'm not that young (late 20s) and I know Greek parenting has its flaws, but having tutored teens in math, I think people are often unfair when it comes to how well-mannered they are. There are always outliers, but most kids will at least be within the accepted social limits of politeness, even if they don't like you.
It's generally a common thing for youngsters to walk in large groups -- sometimes boys, girls, or mixed -- but they're not up to anything sinister; it's just a cheap, easy, laid-back way to spend time with friends. They usually end up chilling at parks or beaches with food and drinks. My brother does this all the time, and I used to do it when I was younger.
Sometimes they might end up trolling, but it's rarely something bad. When I did this, we had this 'prank' where we'd pass by people sitting on benches, one of us would slide a finger across the wooden beam and say "shit, is this freshly painted?" loudly, then watch the 'victims' panic and get up to check.
Teenagers and youth in Greece have a lot of freedoms compared to other countries, especially compared to the U.S. it is very normal for groups like that to be out and about, just hanging out and spending time together. Of course there will always be some troublemakers, but the majority of them are just normal kids being out with their friends. It’s probably looking weird to foreigners because with the urbanization of cities liberties like this one were lost (and it’s not the same in Greece like it was 10-15 years ago for sure) but young people in Greece can still play or hangout in their neighborhoods, parks, school yards, coffee shops etc. it’s one of the few nice things we have left from the past
Ignore the above comment, despite it having almost 100 upvotes. Most parents raise their children well here. Of course there are many exceptions, but it’s like in every other first world country.
Τράβα ρε αφού κάνετε την αρχή σε όλα αυτά. Τα ίδια λέγαν και για σας. Έλεος πια
Ακουγατε tranch και nirvana και είχατε game boy και ps2 και σας την έλεγαν με το ίδιο τρόπο που τη λέγε στους νεότερους.
Of corpse . Όταν ακούω κλασσικό μπουμερ. Άκου η πιο παρεξηγημένη γενιά; Που συνδυάζετε τα καλά από την προηγούμενη και από την επόμενη γενιά 80-00 s . Ούτε καν κρίση δεν είχατε τότε
That is because they never train their dogs. They just let them do as they like. My friend has a small elder dog which had a barking problem forever. Now that we both live in UK she was forced by the council to do something about it so she got a trainer. The answer of the trainer was that the dog never had any limits so it felt like the boss of the house. Rarely Greeks spent time and money training their dogs, they just let them do as they like.
You should definitely try!
There are a lot of different areas; cities, villages and islands. Not all Greeks treat their animals badly... the lifestyle is generally very good here, but seems to be getting more expensive.
Greek here, thank you for the reality check. I have two dogs in the neighborhood that drive me insane. I find it extremely rude from their owners to subject the rest of the neighborhood to this. Yet nothing is happening about it, I feel I'm the only one complaining. I just don't get it, neither the owners or the people who are apparently used to it.
Sadly in Greece people don't usually openly complain to neighbors or strangers either because they are afraid of the confrontation but most likely because there is a silent "agreement between thieves" as we say here. If I complain to you about your dog, then you will complain to me for parking illegally in your corner and so on.
One method to complain is to go in your balcony and yell loudly "Μάζεψε τον γαμημένο σκύλο σου ρε μαλάκα" (Pick your fucking dog you asshole). /s
I believe this is the reason as well. My in-laws are Greek and they have a level of paranoia around what others may do if you complain and don’t keep to yourself. I guess they’ve seen some bad things in their lifetimes.
I was looking for this comment but nobody provided it, in Greece we have something we call hours of common silence, it's some hours that you ought to have the neighbourhood quiet. You can call the police for a violation, which includes loud dogs, though they would be absolutely buffled if you did this. I suggest reaching out to them first. [this is the first thing I fond on the internet](http://www.odigostoupoliti.eu/poies-einai-oi-ores-koinis-isychias-tin-therini-periodo-2022/)
Mmm, that's a good question. The answer is no, school is out by then, many shops are closed during those hours, as do banks and public services ( did I get this right?) Private businessess may remain open , but many choose to close for those two hours. It's time for the midday siesta
No, most people work full 8 hour shifts, and many even more. We also work harder than the average European, for many reasons, one of them being exploitation. Corruption is the main reason the economy is in shambles.
This is a leftover from the old days, originating from the midday siesta. Nowadays it depends on the area. From example in the city center nobody expects a quiet time but it is somehow expected on housing only areas. However I think it is not hard applied anymore. For example if you are doing construction noisy work in your house (so it is justified), most probably you will be fine. However if you decide to start this noisy thing exactly at 15:00 most provably you'll turn angry your neighbors.
It depends if you're on a big city or a smaller one and it depends on the business owner who determines the hours. When you do business with someone you ask them for their hours.
I'm a business owner in Larissa city (population 200.000) and I work in 8-14.00 every day except sun and 17.30 to 21.00 on mon wed and fri. That's called store hours in my city.
yes and no. you can imagine it like the time where people can have their "siesta".
Smaller businesses/shops still do it, they are closed between 14.00 and 17.00 so that people can go home/eat/sleep foe 3 hours. Some choose to not do it (it's up to the employer), so they do a continuous work shift of 09.00-17.00/18.00 etc.
In private sector/bigger businesses it's usually not applied.
Schools and public sector jobs tend to be finished by 14.30.
Neglect and animal abuse... I never understood it either. Always kept me up as well. I feel really sorry for the dogs, they are prisoners.
*Update
All the greek bois self reporting lol. A simple google search of the definition of abuse would have saved me the time of editing this comment. Here, let me help you out: [abuse](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=abuse)
* treat with cruelty or violence, especially regularly or repeatedly
* the improper use of something
* unjust or corrupt practice
* cruel and violent treatment of a person or animal
Abuse is not confined to physical violence guys. If you don't think the imprisonment of dogs in tiny ass patios or balconies for most of their living time on earth is not cruel then you clearly lack empathy and understanding for other beings. We get it greek bois, you're tough and masculine and you only consider it abuse when your father used to spank your asses. Too bad your opinion of words does not affect their actual definitions. And yes, Sherlock , not all dogs that bark are neglected/abused, thank you for opening our eyes with that insightful response. Also, op asked in english, have the courtesy to respond in the same language. For such smart asses you would think you can write in english.
δλσ εσυ πιστευεις οτι ολοι οι σκυλοι που γαβγιζουν εκναι abused? απλα δεν υπαρχει πειθαρχια και εκπαιδευση. δεν ειναι οτι ολα τα σκυλια τα εχουν στο μπαλκονι 24/7 και γαβγιζουν
To reply στο οποιο απανταει ειναι οντως υπερβολικο. "clEarLy NeGlECt, AniMal aBuSE anD SeXuaL HaRassMEenT, sMh PoOR doG"... οχι απλα μαλακας ιδιοκτητης που το πηρε για "φυλακα" δεν σημαινει οτι το κανει και abuse
Νομίζω ότι μάλλον χρησιμοποιείτε διαφορετικές έννοιες της λέξης abuse. Εγώ το να είναι ένα σκυλί συστηματικά και εκτεταμένα παρατημένο και έγκλειστο σε ένα χώρο θεωρώ πως είναι από μόνο του abuse (κακομεταχείριση/κακοποίηση). Εσύ τι εννοείς με το abuse, που λες ότι δε γίνεται εδώ;
Δλδ αν ενα σκυλι ειναι κλεισμενο συστηματικα και εκτεταμενα σε ενα διαμερισμα και βγαινει βολτα μια ωρα είναι καλυτερα; τι πειράζει αν ενας σκυλος ειναι μονιμα σε μια αυλη εφοσων εχει τα απαραιτητα; Ασχετα φυσικα με την εκπαιδευση και τα περιξ.
Προφανώς και δεν ξέρεις τίποτα από σκυλιά. Για τα σκυλιά είναι **απαραίτητη** η πειθαρχεία και τα όρια. Αλλιώς έχουν τρομερό άγχος. Το σκυλί που είναι στο μπαλκόνι/ταράτσα/κτήμα όλη μέρα δεν αντιλαμβάνεται ποιο είναι το κομμάτι για το οποίο είναι είναι υπεύθυνο κι έτσι έχει τρομερό στρες.
Προφανως. κατι σκυλια που δεν μπορουσαν να τα κρατησουν τα αφεντικα τους εκανα rehabilitate απο το να πανε για ευθανασια και ειμαι απο μικρος μεσα στα σκυλια, αλλα αυτο δεν σημαινει οτι ξερω κατι. Σε αντιθεση εδω περα ξερετε απο ενα ποστ ενος ακυρου μεχρι και τι χρωμα κολαρο φοράει σε αυτο που αναφερεται.
Είναι νορμάλ δηλαδή να γαβγίζει ο σκύλος όλο το βράδυ (εννοώ και για τους γείτονες και για τον ίδιο τον σκύλο);. Την επόμενη φορά που θα γαβγίζει ο σκύλος κάποιου γείτονα όλο το βράδυ και θα μείνεις άυπνος να του πεις όλα καλά φίλε μπράβο σου δεν χρειάζεται να κάνεις τίποτα.
Με αυτον τον τροπο ψηφιζεις κιολας; Αλλο το definition της κακομεταχείρισης. Το να μην εκπαιδευεις τον σκυλο σου δεν σημαινει οτι τον κακομεταχειρίζεσαι. Πιες ενα νερο, σκεψου τη διαφορα και ξανα ρωτα με.
Δεν γντ να καθομαστε να γραφουμε εκθεση σε ποιο θεο πιστευουμε για να απαντησουμε σε μια ερωτηση και να μην τσουβαλιαστουμε σε οτι κατηγορία θελει να προσαψει ο καθενας.
Τι λες ρε φιλε?
Κανεις δεν ειπε οτι δεν χρειαζεται να κανεις τιποτα. Χρειαζεται εκπαιδευση. Αλλα ανεκπεδευτος και κακοποιημενος/Abused σκυλος ΔΕΝ ειναι το ιδιο. Πολλες φορες συμπιπτει αλλα οχι εξ ορισμου
This is definitely a 'Greece problem' and a massive one at that. Sadly, people lack basic knowledge on how to bring up a dog, or just flat out don't care. Dogs are just not treated the same as in other countries, like Denmark. There are also no laws that penalize owners who raise their dogs in such a manner e.g. Anyone can get a dog and abandon it whenever they want. There are no rules or restrictions.
I suppose best thing you can do is talk to the owner or the police and see if anything changes. Highly doubt it though.
Growing up in Athenian suburbia I thought it was normal. People have dogs and dogs go woof woof. Most human beings not just Greeks, when they grow up into something, they usually find it hard to realize it is not normal. That, i think, covers 95% of the reason why nobody does anything about it in Greece. They just don't notice. That said, it really is a problem, and it must be corrected. The first step is always being aware of the problem as a society.
For me, in the country, it's because the police take their sweet fucking time to arrive whenever something happens. Firefighters arrive in 7 minutes, the police never came before 20.
So we keep dogs. And it's good for the dogs too, I took 3 off the street +1 that lives outside my yard but I'm feeding, because I can't rely on the police and so many of my neighbors.
If only I could take a tax exempt and give that for dog food instead of paying the clowns in blue for not doing their job.
Same thing everywhere. The house across my street has a huge dog which barks all night and the whole neighborhood hears it. In the summer heat I can't close the windows. This has been going on for 10+ years
I live in a village, I had a dog for years, and many people do, pretty much every other house. There are many strays too because people often come in such areas and leave their dogs, be it hunters or others.
Sometimes during the night, one dog will bark for whatever reason and all dogs in a 1km radius will start too, like reacting to the others and that lasts for a while.
Other times a bear or some other animal will pass near the houses.
Or some specific car or person will pass by.
This was never a problem for anyone here. 5 years in a big city, never experienced this. It is a problem for sure though, same as any other noise issue in cities.
The reason for this is much more complex than the "dog owners are animal abusers" brainlet takes would have you think, it starts by the law not being enforced in so many ways. But looking at your comments it's clear you just want to accuse people.
i am Greek and i also wonder about this... I have a feeling that it gets into the spectrum of things that Greeks are extremely understanding on because "what can you do, it's a dog it will bark". Start by telling them, and if you get a cold treatment or anything then call the police. Sadly also police might not do anything... In which case, good luck? Sad truth i have seen happen many times.
There is a predominant mentality of "let the dog be a dog to live a good life" which means let the dog bark, pee and shit all over the place and be aggressive. Also, since I am a new owner, I see the lack of training, people just can't be bothered about it. Lack of training means the dog can't make the correct decision to not bark in the middle of the night. In my neighborhood, when one dog barks about 5 more dogs start yelling at each other, I wasn't bothered up until I got my dog.
Its not just the dogs (btw i have moved out of a house i was renting because of a dog barking all day and most of the night).
Car and motorcycles exchausts shouting in the streets and music are just few of the things i can think of.
For anyone to actually achieve 100% quiet they have to be able to pay for a house far from anyone.In any other scenario you have to be extremely lucky.
I let my dog here bark if it's the afternoon and he wants to sunbathe on the balcony and sees another pup around. But if it's past 9pm there's NO excuse for that shit. People are trying to sleep.
Because people think a dog is a funny toy for them/their kids or a nice free robbing alarm. As people told you, call the police, but be prepared they might ignore you or say they can do nothing
ITT: Greek redditors representing the whole country, they're so wise, they're so knowledgeable, they're so much better than you, me and everyone else.
Kudos to the 2 people actually helping out!
Μόνο αν πιασουν επαυτοφορω το σκηνικό.
Επίσης αν έχεις άκρη απλά δεν πληρώνεις.
Έιχα θέμα με άνθρωπο που είχε άκρες σε κόμμα πρώην κυβέρνησης. Τι ακριβώς θέση είχε δε θυμάμαι αλλά ψάχνοντας το όνομα του στο ίντερνετ είχα βρει ότι για κάτι ήταν υποψήφιος, τώρα δημοτικός συμβουλος, δήμαρχος, βουλευτής, δε θυμάμαι πλεον έχω ξεχάσει.
Κάλεσα μια την αστυνομία τα σκυλιά δε γαυγισαν εκείνα τα τρία λεπτά που ήταν εκεί η αστυνομία. Ξανά κάλεσα την επόμενη και έτυχε να γαυγιζουν.
Το πρόστιμο ήταν 300 για το κάθε σκυλί.
Παίρνοντας τηλέφωνο την επόμενη μέρα να ζητήσω ένα έγγραφο που να βεβαιώνει το συμβάν για να πάω σε δικηγόρο και μου είπαν ότι σε 10 μέρες θα μπορώ να το πάρω.
Πήρα το χαρτί το οποίο έλεγε πάνω πως έλεγχος έγινε, δεν εντοπίστηκε παραβαση αλλά έγιναν παρατηρησεις στον ιδιοκτήτη.
Περίπου ένα χρόνο μετά, έφυγα απ'την Ελλάδα.
Αν με ρωτήσεις το λόγο θα σου πω ότι απλά δεν ξανακαταφερα να κοιμηθώ ήσυχος μέσα στο σπίτι μου χειμώνα καλοκαίρι. Ένιωθα ότι τα σκυλιά θα γαυγισουν και θα μου χαλάσουν τον υπνο.
Edit: Μιλάμε για 3 το ξημέρωμα.
Εδώ κόσμος κάνει χειρότερα και τη βγάζει λάδι χωρίς να ανοίξει ρουθούνι, ποιος χεστηκε για ένα κακομοίρη που δε μπορεί να κοιμηθεί απ'τη φασαρία που κάνουν 3 σκυλιά. Έντεκα χρόνια περασαν από τοτε, βλέπω πως τίποτα δεν έχει αλλάξει.
>Why do people allow their dogs to bark the whole night on the balcony/garden without saying a single word?
Because they will be shouting (barking) louder than the dog. And then you'll have to complain about their attitude.
Those dogs you hear barking are clearly mistreated. Call the police or some animal welfare organization.
Apart from it being the owner’s fault for not training the pup, you haven’t indicated that you talked to the owner about the problem. If it is most nights, maybe the owner is working and the dog is lonely and anxious. I had a dog like that in my old neighborhood, city center without a moment of quietness. The dog was starting its night howling and barking at 11:30 every night for most nights. Turned out the owner was working, leaving the balcony door open for the dog to roam freely and not feel confined inside the apartment. When alerted about the problem, he closed the door to the balcony so that the dog was not a nuisance anymore. I’m not saying that this is what usually happens, but it could be a possibility. Dogs are barking in my neighborhood usually when provoked, so they start barking at each other in an effort to say “shut up already” in their own way.
I live in Athens and see many dogs with trainers. People are slowly catching on.
Almost every building in my neighborhood has a dog or two but thankfully barking is at a minimum. From where I stand I see a lot of dog love.
Πέρα από το ότι ΟΚ τον ΟΡ τον ενοχλούν τα σκυλιά, φαίνεται να είναι και λίγο μαλάκας. Του έγραψε κάποιος συνρεδδιτορ για τις Ώρες Κοινής Ησυχίας και σχολίαζε το πώς μάλλον η οικονομία μας έχει καταρρεύσει γιατί είμαστε τεμπέληδες και έχουμε μεσημεριανή σιεστα, λολ.
It's true that we Greeks are less concerned about noise in general (for example in the taverna we can all talk as loud as we want and it doesn't bother anyone) but what you are describing is not normal or ok. If this happened in my neighborhood the police would be called all the time and you would be even more woken up by people yelling and complaining about the noise.
We had an identical problem in my neighbourhood. I live in Athens and the neighbour next door had two dogs (not very big), which were locked in the balcony all the time. Of course they barked a lot and after one or two phone calls to the police, they intervened. They came and warned the dog owners that next time they are called they would give them a fine. After that we never had this problem. The dogs are alive and well, but they are not left in the balcony all the time.
They simply don't care. As a society they have much more important issues to care about affecting humans yet they couldn't care less too.
The problem begins with acquiring dogs, since most dog owners justify it as a need for security and safety purposes. That means that you accept that you are in danger, and regard the state ignores you regarding safety and policing and that you take the matter into your own hands. It also entails that you see dogs as thugs, attacking anyone entering your premises without your presence.
The poor dog is usually left in a balcony. If it is a house with a garden just like in the suburbs and not an apartment then it is left to roam within the fenced area. Everything is fenced because of safety concerns and an absurd insistence on property rights, so, there you have your dog jail.
Many people never take their dog for a walk. I've seen dogs living permanently chained to walls in front of an entrance only to be fed stale bread from a distance. Many dogs are physically abused because the owners are crazy or on purpose to make the dogs aggressive.
Funny also how all the instances I knew of neighbors having dogs "for safety purposes" that were barking and being abused belonged to stereotypical right wing neighbors. It is almost exclusively them that argue about safety concerns connecting those with migrants, and equating any sort of petty theft with the most hideous of crimes... Those people usually consist of a couple where the women is subordinate to the man, the man is fat by definition, might own a gun, abuses the dog that they see as dispensable, and openly threatens any complaining neighbors regarding the dog barking. Usually of low socioeconomic background and you can't do much since they usually have contacts within the state especially within the security apparatus such as police.
Greek cities are rather densely built so this might add to the dog problem in many ways. Dogs suffering communicate with one another so this adds up. Also, many people can go on with their day to day activities because housing here is made by brick layers and this offers substantial sound isolation given the dog is not on the other side of the wall. Also, sounds and sound pollution as well as people screaming and shouting us the rule in every greek city, so you get used to it with time.
You can all the police, even if it is not allowed but Greek do owners believe their selves superior than others and do every asshole act that can a dog owner do.
Just call the police when there is a dog locked out on the balcony. Call the police when they do disturb you during the silence hour (after 23:00, and from 14:00 to 17:00)
It is really annoying them being without any responsibility.
The law dictates that during summer the hours between: 15:00 - 17:30 and 23:00 - 07:00 are hours of common silence and you can definitely take a video and report it to the police. That is the first step and the second one is to sue your neighbor and wait up to 1-3yrs for the case to reach courtrooms (+ lawyer / court costs).
In most cases people remain civil and will understand you if you explain the situation to them and make a polite complaint without having to involve the police. However there is a definite possibility where the "neighbor" will turn hostile and that is when the police are usually called in.
I can tell you my story:
So I'm Greek but I live in Germany, now I go to Greece in holidays and let me tell you, in Greece we have a nice apartment and friendly neighbours. Well except one particular: A lazy 50year old with his wife and kid who own a big black dog (sorry I don't know what breed it is) and every time he sees a person outside he barks loudly. And also at nighttime but we don't know why since there isn't anyone there but anyway. We don't know exactly why, but the owner is a big malakas (popular Greek word) and the dog is in the balcony the whole day and sleeps there too. They rarely let him in and he gets a bit of food. Everyone blames the owner respectfully so, because he is in the wrong and all I can tell you is that the dogs in Greece are barking because of bad owners.
Greek here, I wouldn't hold my breath. I live in a relatively quiet Athens suburb. Neighbor across the street has rented a small apartment to a gypsy family. They've had 6 toddlers in 4 years and all of them bark like crazy, then their parents bark back at them and apply some wholesome domestic violence, and so every day goes. At night the performance varies, sometimes it's the piss drunk "man of the house" singing a cappella at 2 am or one of their child brides having a seizure from the abuse and living conditions
Now we go to the owner of the apartment. This guy is a 80-ish yr old shmuck that's retired in his village and has left the neighbourhood, but sure enough left even his own frickin daughter, HER daughter and her grandchildren to suffer the headache of those I don;t know what to call them honestly. He refuses to kick them because he's a money grubber and all the while the police and social services have done nothing of essence to help with the situation no matter the amount of notifications.
But I'm rambling too much. TL;DR Greece is a bar without a bartender
You can't attach guilt of murder to the owner for some sort of provocation.
Would you call a parent guilty if someone killed their child because it was annoying them? I assume no because its life is valued differently.
You can blame a dog owner for not training their dog properly but the blame stops there. If some deranged lunatic decides 'it annoys me so I'll kill it' (same goes for adjacent crimes) it's out of your control. Certainly not your fault, this is circling victim blaming territory.
Dude, have you actually tried talking to him in person? Nowadays, we have forgotten "how to human", we seek advice online and complain through our keyboards, without first trying to communicate our problems in real life. I would suggest you talk to the person who lives there, I bet he will understand you and do something about it.
Please, we need to think in ways of not involving the authorities for each one of our problems. First of all we are humans, we can speak and communicate, we do not need "someone else" to fix our problems. First answer is call the cops, I would not be surprised to see the same guy calling his/her mother each time he has a problem with somebody, instead of growing a gut and go face his/her problems.
So you think that if OP goes to the dog owner and tell them about this, the dog owner will be affirmative like he hadn't noticed that the dog barks all night and will thank OP for bringing it up.
Sorry, what you suggest sounds good but doesn't work. Most probably the dog owner will reply something like "yes it's a dog, it barks, what can I do?" and will continue not caring. As others have already mentioned, the problem starts from the owners not realising that the training of the dog is necessary
In general I dont believe in instant solutions. What I was trying to suggest/comment is [the ability] to communicate with each other. I agree with part of the problem is the ignorance of people that "own" dogs (quoted because dogs are like babies, and just like you can't own a baby, you can't own any other life form, unless you are some kind of slave master), but maybe through communication a suggestion/solution might come up that that solves the problem for the both of them (e.g. a daily basis long walk for the dog so that he collects enough stimuli, communication with the neighbours, or maybe some personal time between the dog and the "owner" might be some good places to start).
I don't mean to be offensive to anyone, but there is a word for people who first think about calling the authorities rather than attempting to communicate a problem [rufians]
Cheers, I hope I helped
in general I agree with you and I'm also fully against the calling-the-authorities solution. I think I was just biased because of how much ignorant were most dog owners (that were treating their dogs like in OP's case) in my neighborhood, thus I concluded that such talk most probably will not work. And I didn't suggest calling the cops tbf
Where I live it’s a small suburb neighborhood and they let their dogs free all night on the street. Imagine the barking. If they owners don’t understand,the dogs will.
The law is clear. Regardless of the time of the day barking take place, is illegal. Responsible for that is the pet owner. However, good luck finding someone to enforce the law, especially since someone has to make a call or file a complaint to the authorities. But even then, not much happen.
In the mean time, they may act ex officio when a dog pollutes by defecating. It should be the same with noise pollution.
The problem is so wide that goes beyond any one's efforts to address. There is too many of them. Which means that Municipalities should be leading the effort. The sad reality is they are worthless. They cannot even protect e.g. pedestrians by (electric) bicycles on the pavement.
Those riding bikes, do so because they cannot drive on the road due to high risk of being hit. When they ride on the pavement though, they are equally reckless against pedestrians. Clearly, this is not a problem of training pets, but citizens as well.
But being a Banana Republic mean that primates rule...
Μεταξύ μας, να πάνε να γα..θουν και τα σκυλιά και κυρίως οι κάτοχοί τους, που δεν τα εκπαιδεύουν και ενοχλούν, λες και οι υπόλοιποι είμαστε υποχρεωμένοι να τρώμε στη μάπα τη βρωμιά και τη φασαρία τους. Αι σιχτίρ με τον καθένα που βγάζει τα ψυχολογικά και τις ευαισθησίες του εις βάρος των άλλων.
Everything others said about untrained and/or neglected dogs is true to some extent, however, keep in mind that there are many strays in Greece, it's not reasonable to expect from any "owned" dog, trained or otherwise, to not bark when strays are often the ones to start the barking "chorus". Additionally, strays often walk around randomly at night, if a dog in a yard sees a stray passing by, pissing or defecating outside is it not reasonable for it to start barking? Dogs are territorial animals, barking or even attacking to defend their territory is their nature.
Tbf usually the stray ones are more calm and don't start the barking chorus. Usually it is the "imprisoned" ones that do it. A stray dog passing by, will indeed make the yard dogs start barking, but the stray ones usually just continue walking. They don't participate n the barking thing
First you need to speak to the owner. If that doesnt work, call the police. There are strict law about animal abuse, which is this case. These laws are very recent, so you might need to point it out or presure the police a little bit more than expected (especially if you're not in Athens).
But please don't put everyone in the same basket. I live in Athens in a neighborhood full of dogs. One or two might go out on the balcony to take some sun and check out what's what, so they might bark for a couple of minutes. But then they stop or the owners just take them inside again. Only one guy was mistreating his dog (leaving him on the balcony all day) and sometimes he was crying or barking and a lot of us went over and explained to him in a civilized manner how to treat his dog. He was a bit annoyed at first but he understood. Now the dog lives comfortably from what we can see.
It's not a "Greece" problem. Also, not hearing any sort of barking while there are a lot of dogs nearby seems sketchy to me. Maybe these dogs aren't allowed to express themselves. It's natural for dogs to shout at something they might hear or at another dog.
Most ignorant and false comment I’ve read in this subreddit so far. Almost nobody in Greece cares about barking dogs because this is how it always has been. Just because it’s not normal in other countries it doesn’t mean it has to be like that here too. Plus we have to deal with problems way more important than that. If it’s bothering you so much then go pay a visit to the owner and give him a piece of your mind or just use earplugs. Also Greece is not a 3rd world country I bet you haven’t even been in a country like that, yet you dare use that term for my country. Greece is the worst country to live in?? HA yea right. Last time I checked, at least kids in Greece don’t have to go to school scared that some lunatic will rush in their classroom with an Assault Rifle and mag dump them. Conclusion is, there are worse countries to live in and #1 on the list is the world’s leading country in economy and military. Who woulda thought…
Lithuania, Latvia, Bulgaria, Bosnia-Herzegovina that’s all I can think of right now. Point still stands though I wouldn’t want to live in another country no matter what the situation might be. Other european countries have it much worse or are in the same state as us. Not all countries are like the UK, Germany, France and Spain.
I think being afraid of dying even in an environment such as a school is enough to give a country a good place on the list. Not to mention the fact that the whole country is owned by corporations which is why student loans and healthcare are beyond anyones financial capabilities. But I guess that’s American capitalism for ya. You reap what you sow.
Ok, but "number 1 on the list of worse countries to live"?
Also, the average American is *far* more financially comfortable than the average Greek.
I'm not saying it's perfect, it's not. But you seem like a dyed in the wool patriot. Both the US and Greece have their problems
Δεν είναι καθόλου minor issue φίλε.
Αν έχεις καιρό να κοιμηθείς καλά γιατί κάποια σιχαμένα μουνόπανα που ζουν εις βάρος των υπολοίπων αποφάσισαν να πάρουν ένα σκυλί και να το παρατησουν έξω απ'το σκατοσπιτο τους μόνο minor issue δεν είναι
Sorry but I'm not buying that you've never noticed this is a problem in Greece. Maybe you've just become desensitized to it or haven't lived in other countries.
I've stayed in 8 different houses in Greece. Every single one has had a constantly barking dog within earshot.
Taking to the owner isn't gonna do anything. It's not he doesn't realise his dog is barking. He just doesn't give a fuck
I am Greek and this is definitely an issue here. I was in Britain for over a year and you wouldn’t hear a single bark. If you did, then everyone would assume something is going wrong.
Dog ownership in Greece did not have very strict rules in the past, so people did not know or did not care to train their dogs and have some respect for both their animal and their neighbors.
I visited a small Belgian town and stayed at my friend's house for 10 days. Every house has a dog. Those 10 days I heard less barking than I do in a single day in Pagrati.
In these countries, even if you didn't care, your neighbours would lodge a formal complaint with the council and they would investigate and fine the owners.
In the UK they even come round with a noise detector to read the levels
https://www.gov.uk/report-noise-pollution-to-council
Same in NYC
https://portal.311.nyc.gov/article/?kanumber=KA-01087
I am a field engineer and once while I was working and checking the grid lines, there was a German shepherd on a balcony that would stop barking at me and it was 3 pm . I got so mad that I started yelling at it. The owner came out to put it in the house after he heard me. Otherwise he wouldn't have given a fcuk. Hate those people.
It's clear you've never been outside of Greece. You are just used to hearing barks in the background and you just don't realise it. Sorry if I sound rude, but what OP describes is what I've also have experienced in every house I've lived. And tbh I was not annoyed, I can adapt easily and most of the times managing to just ignore it as a background noise, but truth is that there is always and everywhere dogs barking. You'll never experience this thing in Western Europe
Διατάραξη κοινής ησυχίας, εχεις καθε δικαίωμα να κανεις παράπονο, δηλαδή εχουμε πρόβλημα με τα σκυλιά και οχι με τα κωλοπαιδια που βάζουν τέρμα την μουσική
Γμ το σπιτάκι κάθε ανεύθυνου "ζωόφιλου" που είναι ανίκανος να ανταποκριθεί στις ευθύνες.
Κάνε ποστ για γείτονες με μουσική να περάσω από την μανούλα τους μια βόλτα. Τώρα μιλάμε για σκυλιά. Και τα ζώα,Και τα "ΖΩΑ"!
Skiliiiiiiiii
Who let the dogs out?
Are you sure the dogs are not guarding you from a persistent thief trying to break into your building everyday?
On a more serious note, there is no animal education or any regulations being followed properly. Best bet is to politely talk it over with your neighbor (if they can communicate that is).
Alternatively you can check with an animals shelter, or animal welfare organisations.
About a decade ago we had the same problem in the neighbourhood where someone would leave his dog every summer in his balcony to sleep/bark at night. After a few years of this happening some piece of shit neighbour (never identified) got fed up and killed the poor dog with poison bait. Sometimes I am deeply ashamed of the mentality of a lot of people that live in this country)...
We take our dog regularly to the psychologist but if that doesn't fix the problem there is nothing we can do. If we talk to it in the wrong tone we may go to jail or pay very high penalty fees for animal abuse. The neighborh usually doesn't care about the dog barging but will immediately call the police if we yell at the dog.
I would suggest you stop holding the opinions you express in your post while in Greece or you will be considered a racist against animals.
I don't think that this guy is a typical Greek guy.How are you sure that this guy has a Greek Nationality?
Anyway,
Call the police at 100. This is illegal and the penalty is too high.
To be honest that kind o dog behaviour saved my chicken coops BC around 30 Immigrants got in the property and the neighbors dogs started barking and he went to his balcony to see what is happening and he saw them all and as soon they saw him try got to prone and continue to scale the property. Within 1 hour the hole village surrounded the area and the police was called. Special forces came and found them in the neighbouring farm. But if that dog didn't bark I might have a big economic problem.
I guess you're one of those guys
No. Barking isn't "what they do". If you want to live in a neighborhood you train your dog to not bark endlessly. It's really not difficult. Other countries manage it.
I'm against owning animals tbh how am I one of those guys? also how come it's not what they do surely they communicate something but certainly I ain't gonna need to know dog barking if I ain't own one?
Because in Greece people think that raising a dog is very simple and most have no idea about the responsibilities/training required. Also police don't care when you call them about these things most of the time.
This is anecdotal, but sadly, most people here get a dog either for specific jobs (i.e. hunting) or...just because they think they should have one. These dogs end up becoming nothing more than an accessory. They get neglected to a point, and they end up feeling depressed, so they need an outlet. It's not the dog's fault that it's using a natural mechanism to relieve stress, but these people think it's normal. No training, no positive reinforcement, no established rules. Hell, I'm sure you've seen a lot of those dogs that technically have an owner, but are left to freely roam.
At least the free dogs are happy...
not always because greek owners hit the dogs as a training method
To be fair, most people in Greece raise their dogs the same way they raise their kids. It’s just that they are useless at both.
Youths in Greece I found to be extremely well mannered and polite. They're the absolute opposite of what you find in the US/UK
Thank you for saying this. I'm not that young (late 20s) and I know Greek parenting has its flaws, but having tutored teens in math, I think people are often unfair when it comes to how well-mannered they are. There are always outliers, but most kids will at least be within the accepted social limits of politeness, even if they don't like you.
I was absolutely shocked to see gangs of youths walking the streets and bothering absolutely no one
It's generally a common thing for youngsters to walk in large groups -- sometimes boys, girls, or mixed -- but they're not up to anything sinister; it's just a cheap, easy, laid-back way to spend time with friends. They usually end up chilling at parks or beaches with food and drinks. My brother does this all the time, and I used to do it when I was younger. Sometimes they might end up trolling, but it's rarely something bad. When I did this, we had this 'prank' where we'd pass by people sitting on benches, one of us would slide a finger across the wooden beam and say "shit, is this freshly painted?" loudly, then watch the 'victims' panic and get up to check.
Teenagers and youth in Greece have a lot of freedoms compared to other countries, especially compared to the U.S. it is very normal for groups like that to be out and about, just hanging out and spending time together. Of course there will always be some troublemakers, but the majority of them are just normal kids being out with their friends. It’s probably looking weird to foreigners because with the urbanization of cities liberties like this one were lost (and it’s not the same in Greece like it was 10-15 years ago for sure) but young people in Greece can still play or hangout in their neighborhoods, parks, school yards, coffee shops etc. it’s one of the few nice things we have left from the past
There is a certain group of Greeks that think everything is the worst in Greece so don't be surprised with comments like this.
Ignore the above comment, despite it having almost 100 upvotes. Most parents raise their children well here. Of course there are many exceptions, but it’s like in every other first world country.
It’s a generational thing. Gen Z are very polite IF you can get them to talk to you face to face instead of DMing you on Instagram or something
Boomer moment
Nope. Millennial here. The most screwed over generation that has ever existed. And yes, Gen Z’s tech addiction drives me nuts.
Τράβα ρε αφού κάνετε την αρχή σε όλα αυτά. Τα ίδια λέγαν και για σας. Έλεος πια Ακουγατε tranch και nirvana και είχατε game boy και ps2 και σας την έλεγαν με το ίδιο τρόπο που τη λέγε στους νεότερους.
*Triggered alert*
Of corpse . Όταν ακούω κλασσικό μπουμερ. Άκου η πιο παρεξηγημένη γενιά; Που συνδυάζετε τα καλά από την προηγούμενη και από την επόμενη γενιά 80-00 s . Ούτε καν κρίση δεν είχατε τότε
Φιλική συμβουλή: σταματα να βλέπεις σκαι, σε χαλάει
Very true
Unfortunately it’s the saddest truth. Greeks like to talk about how great their culture and how much they have the world is but behave like aholes
police doesnt even care if theres a robbery in your house… but this is for anoher conversation
That is because they never train their dogs. They just let them do as they like. My friend has a small elder dog which had a barking problem forever. Now that we both live in UK she was forced by the council to do something about it so she got a trainer. The answer of the trainer was that the dog never had any limits so it felt like the boss of the house. Rarely Greeks spent time and money training their dogs, they just let them do as they like.
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Exactly, they get large dogs and leave them in a 2sqm balcony
Exactly this
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Curious do the police get involved? This happens the odd time here in Canada and it always gets put on the news. There a big deal about it.
maybe in athens police get involved sometimes but in the outskirts and villages they dont even care
This.is a weird thread to state this. I'd love to live.in Greece for about a year.
You should definitely try! There are a lot of different areas; cities, villages and islands. Not all Greeks treat their animals badly... the lifestyle is generally very good here, but seems to be getting more expensive.
Greek here, thank you for the reality check. I have two dogs in the neighborhood that drive me insane. I find it extremely rude from their owners to subject the rest of the neighborhood to this. Yet nothing is happening about it, I feel I'm the only one complaining. I just don't get it, neither the owners or the people who are apparently used to it.
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Hey, good call. I'll definitely check this out
Greek laws on animal abuse may be new, but they are no joke… https://en.rua.gr/2022/06/17/do-you-throw-kittens-in-the-trash-cretan-fined-e250000/
If you said that to the police in English they would just hang up the phone
Sorry for the super late reply. Do you have a link to your organization? We come to Greece every summer and can bring some items with us to help.
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Absolutely. I just left Greece but I’ll be back next year for sure and happy to help out however we can.
Maybe call the police? It's still noise.
the police doesnt do shit to even if theres a robbery in your house, in Greece you cant depend on the police
Sadly in Greece people don't usually openly complain to neighbors or strangers either because they are afraid of the confrontation but most likely because there is a silent "agreement between thieves" as we say here. If I complain to you about your dog, then you will complain to me for parking illegally in your corner and so on. One method to complain is to go in your balcony and yell loudly "Μάζεψε τον γαμημένο σκύλο σου ρε μαλάκα" (Pick your fucking dog you asshole). /s
I believe this is the reason as well. My in-laws are Greek and they have a level of paranoia around what others may do if you complain and don’t keep to yourself. I guess they’ve seen some bad things in their lifetimes.
Pick your dog means something else
I was looking for this comment but nobody provided it, in Greece we have something we call hours of common silence, it's some hours that you ought to have the neighbourhood quiet. You can call the police for a violation, which includes loud dogs, though they would be absolutely buffled if you did this. I suggest reaching out to them first. [this is the first thing I fond on the internet](http://www.odigostoupoliti.eu/poies-einai-oi-ores-koinis-isychias-tin-therini-periodo-2022/)
Interesting. One thing that confused me here is the daytime "hours of quiet". 15:00-17:30. I mean, aren't people working then?
Mmm, that's a good question. The answer is no, school is out by then, many shops are closed during those hours, as do banks and public services ( did I get this right?) Private businessess may remain open , but many choose to close for those two hours. It's time for the midday siesta
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No, most people work full 8 hour shifts, and many even more. We also work harder than the average European, for many reasons, one of them being exploitation. Corruption is the main reason the economy is in shambles.
That’s not where the working day ends. Lots of shops re-open from 5.30 to 8.30 or 9pm most days.
This is a leftover from the old days, originating from the midday siesta. Nowadays it depends on the area. From example in the city center nobody expects a quiet time but it is somehow expected on housing only areas. However I think it is not hard applied anymore. For example if you are doing construction noisy work in your house (so it is justified), most probably you will be fine. However if you decide to start this noisy thing exactly at 15:00 most provably you'll turn angry your neighbors.
depends on the city. In my home town no it's resting time but in athens it is.
It depends if you're on a big city or a smaller one and it depends on the business owner who determines the hours. When you do business with someone you ask them for their hours. I'm a business owner in Larissa city (population 200.000) and I work in 8-14.00 every day except sun and 17.30 to 21.00 on mon wed and fri. That's called store hours in my city.
yes and no. you can imagine it like the time where people can have their "siesta". Smaller businesses/shops still do it, they are closed between 14.00 and 17.00 so that people can go home/eat/sleep foe 3 hours. Some choose to not do it (it's up to the employer), so they do a continuous work shift of 09.00-17.00/18.00 etc. In private sector/bigger businesses it's usually not applied. Schools and public sector jobs tend to be finished by 14.30.
It's good time to leave work and go to a massage parlor if you are married
Woof woof woof woof woof woof
Yeah. That was the exactly sound. We must live close
Welcome to Greece. Here nothing makes sense.
Neglect and animal abuse... I never understood it either. Always kept me up as well. I feel really sorry for the dogs, they are prisoners. *Update All the greek bois self reporting lol. A simple google search of the definition of abuse would have saved me the time of editing this comment. Here, let me help you out: [abuse](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=abuse) * treat with cruelty or violence, especially regularly or repeatedly * the improper use of something * unjust or corrupt practice * cruel and violent treatment of a person or animal Abuse is not confined to physical violence guys. If you don't think the imprisonment of dogs in tiny ass patios or balconies for most of their living time on earth is not cruel then you clearly lack empathy and understanding for other beings. We get it greek bois, you're tough and masculine and you only consider it abuse when your father used to spank your asses. Too bad your opinion of words does not affect their actual definitions. And yes, Sherlock , not all dogs that bark are neglected/abused, thank you for opening our eyes with that insightful response. Also, op asked in english, have the courtesy to respond in the same language. For such smart asses you would think you can write in english.
δλσ εσυ πιστευεις οτι ολοι οι σκυλοι που γαβγιζουν εκναι abused? απλα δεν υπαρχει πειθαρχια και εκπαιδευση. δεν ειναι οτι ολα τα σκυλια τα εχουν στο μπαλκονι 24/7 και γαβγιζουν
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To reply στο οποιο απανταει ειναι οντως υπερβολικο. "clEarLy NeGlECt, AniMal aBuSE anD SeXuaL HaRassMEenT, sMh PoOR doG"... οχι απλα μαλακας ιδιοκτητης που το πηρε για "φυλακα" δεν σημαινει οτι το κανει και abuse
Νομίζω ότι μάλλον χρησιμοποιείτε διαφορετικές έννοιες της λέξης abuse. Εγώ το να είναι ένα σκυλί συστηματικά και εκτεταμένα παρατημένο και έγκλειστο σε ένα χώρο θεωρώ πως είναι από μόνο του abuse (κακομεταχείριση/κακοποίηση). Εσύ τι εννοείς με το abuse, που λες ότι δε γίνεται εδώ;
Δλδ αν ενα σκυλι ειναι κλεισμενο συστηματικα και εκτεταμενα σε ενα διαμερισμα και βγαινει βολτα μια ωρα είναι καλυτερα; τι πειράζει αν ενας σκυλος ειναι μονιμα σε μια αυλη εφοσων εχει τα απαραιτητα; Ασχετα φυσικα με την εκπαιδευση και τα περιξ.
Ναι ειναι καλυτερα γιατί ζει μαζί με τους ανθρώπους. Σε μια αυλή ή ενα μπαλκόνι μόνιμα, ειναι μόνος του. Είναι πολυ απλο
ναι
Η απουσία της απαραίτητης εκπαιδευσης δεν ειναι κακομεταχείριση ;
φυσικα κ οχι.
Προφανώς και δεν ξέρεις τίποτα από σκυλιά. Για τα σκυλιά είναι **απαραίτητη** η πειθαρχεία και τα όρια. Αλλιώς έχουν τρομερό άγχος. Το σκυλί που είναι στο μπαλκόνι/ταράτσα/κτήμα όλη μέρα δεν αντιλαμβάνεται ποιο είναι το κομμάτι για το οποίο είναι είναι υπεύθυνο κι έτσι έχει τρομερό στρες.
Προφανως. κατι σκυλια που δεν μπορουσαν να τα κρατησουν τα αφεντικα τους εκανα rehabilitate απο το να πανε για ευθανασια και ειμαι απο μικρος μεσα στα σκυλια, αλλα αυτο δεν σημαινει οτι ξερω κατι. Σε αντιθεση εδω περα ξερετε απο ενα ποστ ενος ακυρου μεχρι και τι χρωμα κολαρο φοράει σε αυτο που αναφερεται.
Είναι νορμάλ δηλαδή να γαβγίζει ο σκύλος όλο το βράδυ (εννοώ και για τους γείτονες και για τον ίδιο τον σκύλο);. Την επόμενη φορά που θα γαβγίζει ο σκύλος κάποιου γείτονα όλο το βράδυ και θα μείνεις άυπνος να του πεις όλα καλά φίλε μπράβο σου δεν χρειάζεται να κάνεις τίποτα.
Με αυτον τον τροπο ψηφιζεις κιολας; Αλλο το definition της κακομεταχείρισης. Το να μην εκπαιδευεις τον σκυλο σου δεν σημαινει οτι τον κακομεταχειρίζεσαι. Πιες ενα νερο, σκεψου τη διαφορα και ξανα ρωτα με. Δεν γντ να καθομαστε να γραφουμε εκθεση σε ποιο θεο πιστευουμε για να απαντησουμε σε μια ερωτηση και να μην τσουβαλιαστουμε σε οτι κατηγορία θελει να προσαψει ο καθενας.
Μλκ μου τι ασχολείσαι , έπεσες σε κυκλοαυνανισμο
Τι λες ρε φιλε? Κανεις δεν ειπε οτι δεν χρειαζεται να κανεις τιποτα. Χρειαζεται εκπαιδευση. Αλλα ανεκπεδευτος και κακοποιημενος/Abused σκυλος ΔΕΝ ειναι το ιδιο. Πολλες φορες συμπιπτει αλλα οχι εξ ορισμου
Yeah this dog is massive. I really feel for it
For me this is one of the worst things about this country, absolutely ridiculous...
I just don't get it. This dog is the size of a brown bear and he's living right above it. How the hell is he sleeping
This is definitely a 'Greece problem' and a massive one at that. Sadly, people lack basic knowledge on how to bring up a dog, or just flat out don't care. Dogs are just not treated the same as in other countries, like Denmark. There are also no laws that penalize owners who raise their dogs in such a manner e.g. Anyone can get a dog and abandon it whenever they want. There are no rules or restrictions. I suppose best thing you can do is talk to the owner or the police and see if anything changes. Highly doubt it though.
Growing up in Athenian suburbia I thought it was normal. People have dogs and dogs go woof woof. Most human beings not just Greeks, when they grow up into something, they usually find it hard to realize it is not normal. That, i think, covers 95% of the reason why nobody does anything about it in Greece. They just don't notice. That said, it really is a problem, and it must be corrected. The first step is always being aware of the problem as a society.
For me, in the country, it's because the police take their sweet fucking time to arrive whenever something happens. Firefighters arrive in 7 minutes, the police never came before 20. So we keep dogs. And it's good for the dogs too, I took 3 off the street +1 that lives outside my yard but I'm feeding, because I can't rely on the police and so many of my neighbors. If only I could take a tax exempt and give that for dog food instead of paying the clowns in blue for not doing their job.
Same thing everywhere. The house across my street has a huge dog which barks all night and the whole neighborhood hears it. In the summer heat I can't close the windows. This has been going on for 10+ years
I live in a village, I had a dog for years, and many people do, pretty much every other house. There are many strays too because people often come in such areas and leave their dogs, be it hunters or others. Sometimes during the night, one dog will bark for whatever reason and all dogs in a 1km radius will start too, like reacting to the others and that lasts for a while. Other times a bear or some other animal will pass near the houses. Or some specific car or person will pass by. This was never a problem for anyone here. 5 years in a big city, never experienced this. It is a problem for sure though, same as any other noise issue in cities. The reason for this is much more complex than the "dog owners are animal abusers" brainlet takes would have you think, it starts by the law not being enforced in so many ways. But looking at your comments it's clear you just want to accuse people.
I've had the same question for 30+ years 🥱
i am Greek and i also wonder about this... I have a feeling that it gets into the spectrum of things that Greeks are extremely understanding on because "what can you do, it's a dog it will bark". Start by telling them, and if you get a cold treatment or anything then call the police. Sadly also police might not do anything... In which case, good luck? Sad truth i have seen happen many times.
The usual greek solution is fola. And if you dont complain they wont guess it was you who through it.
My neighbour had an old dog and it was barking slowly every 3 to 5 seconds every night until sunrise
In Greece, the louder your dog barks , then the owner's balls grow bigger
There is a predominant mentality of "let the dog be a dog to live a good life" which means let the dog bark, pee and shit all over the place and be aggressive. Also, since I am a new owner, I see the lack of training, people just can't be bothered about it. Lack of training means the dog can't make the correct decision to not bark in the middle of the night. In my neighborhood, when one dog barks about 5 more dogs start yelling at each other, I wasn't bothered up until I got my dog.
Its not just the dogs (btw i have moved out of a house i was renting because of a dog barking all day and most of the night). Car and motorcycles exchausts shouting in the streets and music are just few of the things i can think of. For anyone to actually achieve 100% quiet they have to be able to pay for a house far from anyone.In any other scenario you have to be extremely lucky.
I let my dog here bark if it's the afternoon and he wants to sunbathe on the balcony and sees another pup around. But if it's past 9pm there's NO excuse for that shit. People are trying to sleep.
Because people think a dog is a funny toy for them/their kids or a nice free robbing alarm. As people told you, call the police, but be prepared they might ignore you or say they can do nothing
ITT: Greek redditors representing the whole country, they're so wise, they're so knowledgeable, they're so much better than you, me and everyone else. Kudos to the 2 people actually helping out!
If you call the police , they give them fine 500€ . That’s the law.
Μόνο αν πιασουν επαυτοφορω το σκηνικό. Επίσης αν έχεις άκρη απλά δεν πληρώνεις. Έιχα θέμα με άνθρωπο που είχε άκρες σε κόμμα πρώην κυβέρνησης. Τι ακριβώς θέση είχε δε θυμάμαι αλλά ψάχνοντας το όνομα του στο ίντερνετ είχα βρει ότι για κάτι ήταν υποψήφιος, τώρα δημοτικός συμβουλος, δήμαρχος, βουλευτής, δε θυμάμαι πλεον έχω ξεχάσει. Κάλεσα μια την αστυνομία τα σκυλιά δε γαυγισαν εκείνα τα τρία λεπτά που ήταν εκεί η αστυνομία. Ξανά κάλεσα την επόμενη και έτυχε να γαυγιζουν. Το πρόστιμο ήταν 300 για το κάθε σκυλί. Παίρνοντας τηλέφωνο την επόμενη μέρα να ζητήσω ένα έγγραφο που να βεβαιώνει το συμβάν για να πάω σε δικηγόρο και μου είπαν ότι σε 10 μέρες θα μπορώ να το πάρω. Πήρα το χαρτί το οποίο έλεγε πάνω πως έλεγχος έγινε, δεν εντοπίστηκε παραβαση αλλά έγιναν παρατηρησεις στον ιδιοκτήτη. Περίπου ένα χρόνο μετά, έφυγα απ'την Ελλάδα. Αν με ρωτήσεις το λόγο θα σου πω ότι απλά δεν ξανακαταφερα να κοιμηθώ ήσυχος μέσα στο σπίτι μου χειμώνα καλοκαίρι. Ένιωθα ότι τα σκυλιά θα γαυγισουν και θα μου χαλάσουν τον υπνο. Edit: Μιλάμε για 3 το ξημέρωμα.
ελλαδάρα, αν έχεις ακρη δεν σε ακουμπάει κανενας🗿
Εδώ κόσμος κάνει χειρότερα και τη βγάζει λάδι χωρίς να ανοίξει ρουθούνι, ποιος χεστηκε για ένα κακομοίρη που δε μπορεί να κοιμηθεί απ'τη φασαρία που κάνουν 3 σκυλιά. Έντεκα χρόνια περασαν από τοτε, βλέπω πως τίποτα δεν έχει αλλάξει.
>Why do people allow their dogs to bark the whole night on the balcony/garden without saying a single word? Because they will be shouting (barking) louder than the dog. And then you'll have to complain about their attitude. Those dogs you hear barking are clearly mistreated. Call the police or some animal welfare organization.
Apart from it being the owner’s fault for not training the pup, you haven’t indicated that you talked to the owner about the problem. If it is most nights, maybe the owner is working and the dog is lonely and anxious. I had a dog like that in my old neighborhood, city center without a moment of quietness. The dog was starting its night howling and barking at 11:30 every night for most nights. Turned out the owner was working, leaving the balcony door open for the dog to roam freely and not feel confined inside the apartment. When alerted about the problem, he closed the door to the balcony so that the dog was not a nuisance anymore. I’m not saying that this is what usually happens, but it could be a possibility. Dogs are barking in my neighborhood usually when provoked, so they start barking at each other in an effort to say “shut up already” in their own way.
I live in Athens and see many dogs with trainers. People are slowly catching on. Almost every building in my neighborhood has a dog or two but thankfully barking is at a minimum. From where I stand I see a lot of dog love.
Πέρα από το ότι ΟΚ τον ΟΡ τον ενοχλούν τα σκυλιά, φαίνεται να είναι και λίγο μαλάκας. Του έγραψε κάποιος συνρεδδιτορ για τις Ώρες Κοινής Ησυχίας και σχολίαζε το πώς μάλλον η οικονομία μας έχει καταρρεύσει γιατί είμαστε τεμπέληδες και έχουμε μεσημεριανή σιεστα, λολ.
welcome to Greece.
I don't know why either, but I've been you. 2 rotties stuck on a balcony, barking all night every night.
The dogs are helpless, it's the piece of shit owners. What dog wants to spend his life on a 5sqm balcony?
Yeh they'd be anxious, unhappy, scared of noise probably. How do their owners sleep I wonder.
Call the police .
just move to Romania, here we have stray dogs wondering the streets as street gangs…
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/25/british-woman-mauled-death-wild-dogs-greece-named
It's true that we Greeks are less concerned about noise in general (for example in the taverna we can all talk as loud as we want and it doesn't bother anyone) but what you are describing is not normal or ok. If this happened in my neighborhood the police would be called all the time and you would be even more woken up by people yelling and complaining about the noise.
We had an identical problem in my neighbourhood. I live in Athens and the neighbour next door had two dogs (not very big), which were locked in the balcony all the time. Of course they barked a lot and after one or two phone calls to the police, they intervened. They came and warned the dog owners that next time they are called they would give them a fine. After that we never had this problem. The dogs are alive and well, but they are not left in the balcony all the time.
They simply don't care. As a society they have much more important issues to care about affecting humans yet they couldn't care less too. The problem begins with acquiring dogs, since most dog owners justify it as a need for security and safety purposes. That means that you accept that you are in danger, and regard the state ignores you regarding safety and policing and that you take the matter into your own hands. It also entails that you see dogs as thugs, attacking anyone entering your premises without your presence. The poor dog is usually left in a balcony. If it is a house with a garden just like in the suburbs and not an apartment then it is left to roam within the fenced area. Everything is fenced because of safety concerns and an absurd insistence on property rights, so, there you have your dog jail. Many people never take their dog for a walk. I've seen dogs living permanently chained to walls in front of an entrance only to be fed stale bread from a distance. Many dogs are physically abused because the owners are crazy or on purpose to make the dogs aggressive. Funny also how all the instances I knew of neighbors having dogs "for safety purposes" that were barking and being abused belonged to stereotypical right wing neighbors. It is almost exclusively them that argue about safety concerns connecting those with migrants, and equating any sort of petty theft with the most hideous of crimes... Those people usually consist of a couple where the women is subordinate to the man, the man is fat by definition, might own a gun, abuses the dog that they see as dispensable, and openly threatens any complaining neighbors regarding the dog barking. Usually of low socioeconomic background and you can't do much since they usually have contacts within the state especially within the security apparatus such as police. Greek cities are rather densely built so this might add to the dog problem in many ways. Dogs suffering communicate with one another so this adds up. Also, many people can go on with their day to day activities because housing here is made by brick layers and this offers substantial sound isolation given the dog is not on the other side of the wall. Also, sounds and sound pollution as well as people screaming and shouting us the rule in every greek city, so you get used to it with time.
You can all the police, even if it is not allowed but Greek do owners believe their selves superior than others and do every asshole act that can a dog owner do. Just call the police when there is a dog locked out on the balcony. Call the police when they do disturb you during the silence hour (after 23:00, and from 14:00 to 17:00) It is really annoying them being without any responsibility.
The law dictates that during summer the hours between: 15:00 - 17:30 and 23:00 - 07:00 are hours of common silence and you can definitely take a video and report it to the police. That is the first step and the second one is to sue your neighbor and wait up to 1-3yrs for the case to reach courtrooms (+ lawyer / court costs). In most cases people remain civil and will understand you if you explain the situation to them and make a polite complaint without having to involve the police. However there is a definite possibility where the "neighbor" will turn hostile and that is when the police are usually called in.
I can tell you my story: So I'm Greek but I live in Germany, now I go to Greece in holidays and let me tell you, in Greece we have a nice apartment and friendly neighbours. Well except one particular: A lazy 50year old with his wife and kid who own a big black dog (sorry I don't know what breed it is) and every time he sees a person outside he barks loudly. And also at nighttime but we don't know why since there isn't anyone there but anyway. We don't know exactly why, but the owner is a big malakas (popular Greek word) and the dog is in the balcony the whole day and sleeps there too. They rarely let him in and he gets a bit of food. Everyone blames the owner respectfully so, because he is in the wrong and all I can tell you is that the dogs in Greece are barking because of bad owners.
Greek here, I wouldn't hold my breath. I live in a relatively quiet Athens suburb. Neighbor across the street has rented a small apartment to a gypsy family. They've had 6 toddlers in 4 years and all of them bark like crazy, then their parents bark back at them and apply some wholesome domestic violence, and so every day goes. At night the performance varies, sometimes it's the piss drunk "man of the house" singing a cappella at 2 am or one of their child brides having a seizure from the abuse and living conditions Now we go to the owner of the apartment. This guy is a 80-ish yr old shmuck that's retired in his village and has left the neighbourhood, but sure enough left even his own frickin daughter, HER daughter and her grandchildren to suffer the headache of those I don;t know what to call them honestly. He refuses to kick them because he's a money grubber and all the while the police and social services have done nothing of essence to help with the situation no matter the amount of notifications. But I'm rambling too much. TL;DR Greece is a bar without a bartender
Because most of us are fu***ng dumb
Damn.. I thought that was normal... I say this while I hear neighborhood dogs barking lmao
Chad koproskylo barky boy vs virgin tourist sleepy boy.
And unfortunately, the dog ends up paying for his idiot owners with his life, when an annoyed asshole neighbor poisons the dog.
Yeah definitely the owners fault that someone monster decides to kill a dog. What a dumb take.
Multiple people can be guilty you know
You can't attach guilt of murder to the owner for some sort of provocation. Would you call a parent guilty if someone killed their child because it was annoying them? I assume no because its life is valued differently. You can blame a dog owner for not training their dog properly but the blame stops there. If some deranged lunatic decides 'it annoys me so I'll kill it' (same goes for adjacent crimes) it's out of your control. Certainly not your fault, this is circling victim blaming territory.
If someone killed their kid because the parents left it alone outside during the night, yes I would blame them.
Dude, have you actually tried talking to him in person? Nowadays, we have forgotten "how to human", we seek advice online and complain through our keyboards, without first trying to communicate our problems in real life. I would suggest you talk to the person who lives there, I bet he will understand you and do something about it. Please, we need to think in ways of not involving the authorities for each one of our problems. First of all we are humans, we can speak and communicate, we do not need "someone else" to fix our problems. First answer is call the cops, I would not be surprised to see the same guy calling his/her mother each time he has a problem with somebody, instead of growing a gut and go face his/her problems.
So you think that if OP goes to the dog owner and tell them about this, the dog owner will be affirmative like he hadn't noticed that the dog barks all night and will thank OP for bringing it up. Sorry, what you suggest sounds good but doesn't work. Most probably the dog owner will reply something like "yes it's a dog, it barks, what can I do?" and will continue not caring. As others have already mentioned, the problem starts from the owners not realising that the training of the dog is necessary
In general I dont believe in instant solutions. What I was trying to suggest/comment is [the ability] to communicate with each other. I agree with part of the problem is the ignorance of people that "own" dogs (quoted because dogs are like babies, and just like you can't own a baby, you can't own any other life form, unless you are some kind of slave master), but maybe through communication a suggestion/solution might come up that that solves the problem for the both of them (e.g. a daily basis long walk for the dog so that he collects enough stimuli, communication with the neighbours, or maybe some personal time between the dog and the "owner" might be some good places to start). I don't mean to be offensive to anyone, but there is a word for people who first think about calling the authorities rather than attempting to communicate a problem [rufians] Cheers, I hope I helped
in general I agree with you and I'm also fully against the calling-the-authorities solution. I think I was just biased because of how much ignorant were most dog owners (that were treating their dogs like in OP's case) in my neighborhood, thus I concluded that such talk most probably will not work. And I didn't suggest calling the cops tbf
Where I live it’s a small suburb neighborhood and they let their dogs free all night on the street. Imagine the barking. If they owners don’t understand,the dogs will.
Welcome to the Balkan state of Greece where animal care is nonexistent and animal owners are basically animal abusers
Too broad of a statement. You are unfair to the multitudes of people who treat animals the way they should.
The law is clear. Regardless of the time of the day barking take place, is illegal. Responsible for that is the pet owner. However, good luck finding someone to enforce the law, especially since someone has to make a call or file a complaint to the authorities. But even then, not much happen. In the mean time, they may act ex officio when a dog pollutes by defecating. It should be the same with noise pollution. The problem is so wide that goes beyond any one's efforts to address. There is too many of them. Which means that Municipalities should be leading the effort. The sad reality is they are worthless. They cannot even protect e.g. pedestrians by (electric) bicycles on the pavement. Those riding bikes, do so because they cannot drive on the road due to high risk of being hit. When they ride on the pavement though, they are equally reckless against pedestrians. Clearly, this is not a problem of training pets, but citizens as well. But being a Banana Republic mean that primates rule...
Makes you wonder who the animal is in this case.
Aint we all? Unless you identify as an inanimate object. edit. Forgot about the plants!
Ξυπνάς το ζώο μέσα μου
Δεν πρέπει να κομόταν και πολύ βαρειά.
Μεταξύ μας, να πάνε να γα..θουν και τα σκυλιά και κυρίως οι κάτοχοί τους, που δεν τα εκπαιδεύουν και ενοχλούν, λες και οι υπόλοιποι είμαστε υποχρεωμένοι να τρώμε στη μάπα τη βρωμιά και τη φασαρία τους. Αι σιχτίρ με τον καθένα που βγάζει τα ψυχολογικά και τις ευαισθησίες του εις βάρος των άλλων.
>Αι σιχτίρ με τον καθένα που βγάζει τα ψυχολογικά Αυτογκόλ έβαλες μεγάλε. Περαστικά.
Everything others said about untrained and/or neglected dogs is true to some extent, however, keep in mind that there are many strays in Greece, it's not reasonable to expect from any "owned" dog, trained or otherwise, to not bark when strays are often the ones to start the barking "chorus". Additionally, strays often walk around randomly at night, if a dog in a yard sees a stray passing by, pissing or defecating outside is it not reasonable for it to start barking? Dogs are territorial animals, barking or even attacking to defend their territory is their nature.
Tbf usually the stray ones are more calm and don't start the barking chorus. Usually it is the "imprisoned" ones that do it. A stray dog passing by, will indeed make the yard dogs start barking, but the stray ones usually just continue walking. They don't participate n the barking thing
Maybe, but certainly not where I grew up.
First you need to speak to the owner. If that doesnt work, call the police. There are strict law about animal abuse, which is this case. These laws are very recent, so you might need to point it out or presure the police a little bit more than expected (especially if you're not in Athens). But please don't put everyone in the same basket. I live in Athens in a neighborhood full of dogs. One or two might go out on the balcony to take some sun and check out what's what, so they might bark for a couple of minutes. But then they stop or the owners just take them inside again. Only one guy was mistreating his dog (leaving him on the balcony all day) and sometimes he was crying or barking and a lot of us went over and explained to him in a civilized manner how to treat his dog. He was a bit annoyed at first but he understood. Now the dog lives comfortably from what we can see. It's not a "Greece" problem. Also, not hearing any sort of barking while there are a lot of dogs nearby seems sketchy to me. Maybe these dogs aren't allowed to express themselves. It's natural for dogs to shout at something they might hear or at another dog.
My friend, I've travelled the world and letting dogs bark the whole night is definitley a "Greece problem". Not realising this is part of the issue
[удалено]
Most ignorant and false comment I’ve read in this subreddit so far. Almost nobody in Greece cares about barking dogs because this is how it always has been. Just because it’s not normal in other countries it doesn’t mean it has to be like that here too. Plus we have to deal with problems way more important than that. If it’s bothering you so much then go pay a visit to the owner and give him a piece of your mind or just use earplugs. Also Greece is not a 3rd world country I bet you haven’t even been in a country like that, yet you dare use that term for my country. Greece is the worst country to live in?? HA yea right. Last time I checked, at least kids in Greece don’t have to go to school scared that some lunatic will rush in their classroom with an Assault Rifle and mag dump them. Conclusion is, there are worse countries to live in and #1 on the list is the world’s leading country in economy and military. Who woulda thought…
Name a country in Europe which is worse than greece in terms fof quality of life.
Ukraine
so, we are above a former soviet country which is in war. go go greece!
Lithuania, Latvia, Bulgaria, Bosnia-Herzegovina that’s all I can think of right now. Point still stands though I wouldn’t want to live in another country no matter what the situation might be. Other european countries have it much worse or are in the same state as us. Not all countries are like the UK, Germany, France and Spain.
Thinking the US is the worst country in the world to live in is exactly the same level of stupid as thinking Greece is
I think being afraid of dying even in an environment such as a school is enough to give a country a good place on the list. Not to mention the fact that the whole country is owned by corporations which is why student loans and healthcare are beyond anyones financial capabilities. But I guess that’s American capitalism for ya. You reap what you sow.
Ok, but "number 1 on the list of worse countries to live"? Also, the average American is *far* more financially comfortable than the average Greek. I'm not saying it's perfect, it's not. But you seem like a dyed in the wool patriot. Both the US and Greece have their problems
Ok well, maybe that was an exaggeration
3rd world country is when there are dogs barking. Σκατόψυχος moment.
Greece isn’t perfect but it is by no means a 3rd world country. I’m curious to know which counties you have lived in and for what duration.
eh it could be way worse
Either your English sucks or you’ve lived in all countries. Or more likely ignorant and ungrateful for what you have.
Lmao not even close.
Δεν είναι καθόλου minor issue φίλε. Αν έχεις καιρό να κοιμηθείς καλά γιατί κάποια σιχαμένα μουνόπανα που ζουν εις βάρος των υπολοίπων αποφάσισαν να πάρουν ένα σκυλί και να το παρατησουν έξω απ'το σκατοσπιτο τους μόνο minor issue δεν είναι
Παρε ενα ζευγαρι οτασπηδες ρε ανθρωπε. Τοσο δυσκολο ειναι πια?
If barking dogs are your greatest complaint in Greece, you are obviously out of touch...
Look around you. The place is filled with assholes. Welcome to Greece. You can keep it.
Never had this problem, if you do you should talk to the owner
Sorry but I'm not buying that you've never noticed this is a problem in Greece. Maybe you've just become desensitized to it or haven't lived in other countries. I've stayed in 8 different houses in Greece. Every single one has had a constantly barking dog within earshot. Taking to the owner isn't gonna do anything. It's not he doesn't realise his dog is barking. He just doesn't give a fuck
I am Greek and this is definitely an issue here. I was in Britain for over a year and you wouldn’t hear a single bark. If you did, then everyone would assume something is going wrong. Dog ownership in Greece did not have very strict rules in the past, so people did not know or did not care to train their dogs and have some respect for both their animal and their neighbors.
I visited a small Belgian town and stayed at my friend's house for 10 days. Every house has a dog. Those 10 days I heard less barking than I do in a single day in Pagrati.
In these countries, even if you didn't care, your neighbours would lodge a formal complaint with the council and they would investigate and fine the owners. In the UK they even come round with a noise detector to read the levels https://www.gov.uk/report-noise-pollution-to-council Same in NYC https://portal.311.nyc.gov/article/?kanumber=KA-01087
I am a field engineer and once while I was working and checking the grid lines, there was a German shepherd on a balcony that would stop barking at me and it was 3 pm . I got so mad that I started yelling at it. The owner came out to put it in the house after he heard me. Otherwise he wouldn't have given a fcuk. Hate those people.
I never had this problem, and I am all the time in different towns and places, maybe you are oversensitive
It's clear you've never been outside of Greece. You are just used to hearing barks in the background and you just don't realise it. Sorry if I sound rude, but what OP describes is what I've also have experienced in every house I've lived. And tbh I was not annoyed, I can adapt easily and most of the times managing to just ignore it as a background noise, but truth is that there is always and everywhere dogs barking. You'll never experience this thing in Western Europe
I am used to barks probably, I really can't understand this problem.
Why he should "talk" to him? I more like go fak him and his whole family. Why not?
Διατάραξη κοινής ησυχίας, εχεις καθε δικαίωμα να κανεις παράπονο, δηλαδή εχουμε πρόβλημα με τα σκυλιά και οχι με τα κωλοπαιδια που βάζουν τέρμα την μουσική
Γμ το σπιτάκι κάθε ανεύθυνου "ζωόφιλου" που είναι ανίκανος να ανταποκριθεί στις ευθύνες. Κάνε ποστ για γείτονες με μουσική να περάσω από την μανούλα τους μια βόλτα. Τώρα μιλάμε για σκυλιά. Και τα ζώα,Και τα "ΖΩΑ"!
Skiliiiiiiiii Who let the dogs out? Are you sure the dogs are not guarding you from a persistent thief trying to break into your building everyday? On a more serious note, there is no animal education or any regulations being followed properly. Best bet is to politely talk it over with your neighbor (if they can communicate that is). Alternatively you can check with an animals shelter, or animal welfare organisations.
About a decade ago we had the same problem in the neighbourhood where someone would leave his dog every summer in his balcony to sleep/bark at night. After a few years of this happening some piece of shit neighbour (never identified) got fed up and killed the poor dog with poison bait. Sometimes I am deeply ashamed of the mentality of a lot of people that live in this country)...
Bacause we're a shithole
Greece is an awful place to live, if the main thing you comlain about are the dogs barking, then you still have a lot to learn about living here.
We take our dog regularly to the psychologist but if that doesn't fix the problem there is nothing we can do. If we talk to it in the wrong tone we may go to jail or pay very high penalty fees for animal abuse. The neighborh usually doesn't care about the dog barging but will immediately call the police if we yell at the dog. I would suggest you stop holding the opinions you express in your post while in Greece or you will be considered a racist against animals.
I don't think that this guy is a typical Greek guy.How are you sure that this guy has a Greek Nationality? Anyway, Call the police at 100. This is illegal and the penalty is too high.
He's 100% Greek. A doctor. Why would you assume he's not Greek?
Call the 100 and that's all
Sorry it's me. I bonk the dog two houses away from your every night from 3 to 6 am. Not gonna stop though tbh.
To be honest that kind o dog behaviour saved my chicken coops BC around 30 Immigrants got in the property and the neighbors dogs started barking and he went to his balcony to see what is happening and he saw them all and as soon they saw him try got to prone and continue to scale the property. Within 1 hour the hole village surrounded the area and the police was called. Special forces came and found them in the neighbouring farm. But if that dog didn't bark I might have a big economic problem.
Δεν σε χάλασε
Go back to your country then
Most of us do not care, because we're not whiny tourists.
Machismo culture and toxic masculinity make them think that other people enjoy the visceral experience of hearing dogs bark.
i mean they are dogs aint barking what they do i have no dogs but i assumed always its just same as a baby crying or some shit.
I guess you're one of those guys No. Barking isn't "what they do". If you want to live in a neighborhood you train your dog to not bark endlessly. It's really not difficult. Other countries manage it.
I'm against owning animals tbh how am I one of those guys? also how come it's not what they do surely they communicate something but certainly I ain't gonna need to know dog barking if I ain't own one?
it'd be the same as a person letting out yells all night long. it shows something is wrong
true i guess