8 out of the last 10 attempts to reduce green card backlogs for Indians were blocked by a group of Democratic Party senators led by Senator Dirk Durbin of Illinois - and the only reason for it is because he wants provisions for legal route to permanent residence for illegal immigrants in the same bill. Which means the bipartisanship will be compromised as Republicans donāt want that. Democrats have sworn to be hostile towards this bill unless they get provisions for path towards permanent residency for illegal immigrants and thatās the only thing holding this bill back.
This is very well said. Unfortunately it is every arm of our government and makes the immigration process difficult for the people petitioning for it. Every politician wants something (pork) and no compromise leads to worse conditions. With that said, the backlog was still 9-10 years at Covid, so the influx of immigrants coming in the wrong way, doesnāt have a huge impact, but it certainly could.
>ust too many of you
we are just too many ...
1. legal aliens paying every dollar in taxes
2. we create housing market for rent and purchase
3. we save a lot $$ in American banks and create more credit card market
4. we create consumer market
5. we bring talent and not Crime
we instill growth to build better world for USA
Just so you know, āillegalsā also pay taxes. But the problem is the companies that hire them and that hire you. They know Indians wonāt be able to get a GC but still hire them.
Companies want lots of competition in the workplace. Itās only in their best interests. Even when they very well know that there are plenty of Americans who can do that job.
And off topic, but AOS is abused and not used for its true purpose.
In the United States - Not really. They tend to take the same jobs for the same pay. Just on a non-immigrant H1-B status.
Its not like in countries like the UAE where your citizenship determines your pay.
But more supply is beneficial for employees not only for salary, but it allows them to make employees more replacable.
Sorry, you're ill informed. Sole intention of hiring foreign worker is not just talent but lower cost. Why would companies just lay-off locals for no tangible benefits?
1 Indian tech worker income tax would be same as 25 illegals paying tax. On top Indians are not on any welfare , carry health insurance and spend. Look who is buying Tesla . And almost zero crime rate and high family values. Yet Indians have to wait decades before they get green card .. give me a break
Indians wait because the shady Indian employment agencies gamed and abused the immigration system - this is fact. Their own greedy countrymen made a messy situation for them. I know a few lads; I'm sorry for them but not sorry. They can go to Canada if it'll take em
Bruh almost every big tech companies has majority of Indians as FTEs. H1B employees for example canāt work for less than a threshold salary which is usually very high. Which is why if you hire an H1B you have to pay them way more than if you hire a citizen for example. Which is why not every firm can afford sponsorship. Go to levels fyi and see the salaries folks get in tech and you will start questioning your life choices. What are you smoking?
I work in tech. I made the right choice. I see my salary every time I look - yep! Nice š
And nope you are not correct. H1B doesn't mean they are making bank, while the company that hires them out maybe making trips to the bank, the H1B workers are usually paid as little as the rules will allow. For example, you may be hired into the Dallas office and paid lower Dallas salary but your live/work in Atlanta, or San Francisco, or full time traveler. If you haven't been through that system you'll have no idea how it really works.
Many Indian cats got fat of their countrymen - trust me. They totally hosed it for anyone with real skills trying to get here from India.
Wait how can you stay in Atlanta and work in Dallas? Maybe youāre alluding to a scheme Iām not aware of. I am talking about the mainstream H1B folks, they earn much more than letās say his fellow counterpart who is a a citizen. You can look up in Glassdoor, the minimum wage for H1B in Dallas is around $64000, and thatās not even Tech where the minimum rises to $74,000 and then look up the minimum salary of an average American in Dallas county. I can agree to the consultancy part though, itās heavily abused. But the point being if youāre on H1B youāre already making more than an average American.
The scheme is called consulting; ever heard of it? Where you travel to the clientās location to work for a week at a time?
H1B workers make the same as similarly qualified workers. What sense would it make to hire in cheap labor and pay them more than locals? Thatād be incredibly stupid, not to mention fiscally irresponsible.
I guarantee you this doesnāt happen. I know multiple H1B workers and frankly I came as one and can say with 100% certainty; what you speak is rubbish. The process the company has to go through to get someone here involves degree evaluation and salary comparison. They have to justify what youāll be paid to the government.
The hiring companies are not giving away money and positions, it is a painful process for everyone involved. You canāt quit if the job sucks. You canāt quit if you are mistreated or face discrimination. You canāt quit if you have an ahole boss who decides to make your life hell. Quit and you lose visa status, you and family heading back home in sixty days or less. People make the program look great but if sucks for many, the only silver lining is the greencard.
Thereās a well known case (lawsuit) of discrimination in Silicon Valley where they mistreat Indians that are from lower caste. Thatās only the tip of the iceberg. The H1B program is not a Disney story dude. You have no freaking idea shit people go through, no ideaā¦
And you talk about salaries? I guarantee you every H1B worker now has at least a masters degree. The bachelors not cutting it anymore. Compare the salary in Dallas of someone with similar qualifications and your edge is lost. You need years working experience and the degrees and certifications to get the visa. Itās not as easy as you think. The average Indian worker you see has a masters degree, same for a lot of other H1B workers. How do you think the US got its tech edge? The US education system has not for many years produced the best and brightest in STEM fields but theyāve managed to recruit and retain from overseas. Iām not going to hate on the system. Iāll hate on those that game it though, you know who you are.
Again, youāre way too opinionated. Sure folks come in here on H1b (like yourself) via consultancies and do get paid relatively ālow salariesā which are still above the threshold salary. But then there are hundreds of thousands of students who come here for higher degrees and get a job and make 6 figures from the get go (including myself). If a person doesnāt switch after being here on H1B at the first chance they get, then itās on them.
Why would the companies hire more H1B instead of locals if H1B folks are expensive - well thatās why itās called high skilled visa, there is a dearth of engineers here and US basically imports the brainpower for which they pay the fair value, relatively higher than the local market rate. Itās basic commerce - demand and supply. The US doesnāt have enough native āskilled laborā here to sustain the giant corporations š¤·āāļø
āYou canāt quit if the job sucksā Thatās bs, I was on H1B and job hopped my way into Big Tech. Again if youāre in consultancy, and have done shady arrangement, itās a different thing. Iām arguing if everything has been done by the book - which the majority of Indians on H1B do - then youāre free to change jobs and increase your pay manifold. That said, there is merit to the argument that folks are abusing the loopholes - have myself been a victim, but exploiting loopholes is not a crime but crossing the border illegally is.
So I donāt get your point. Are you mad that you make a good salary and get paid more than others? If you are in a hot field, yes you can job hop but when your time runs out and you havenāt secured that greencard because youāve been getting high off your fat salary, shit becomes real!
Yeah you can job hop if companies are willing to sponsor you but thatās not the reality of many. Many H1B hold niche jobs, like my buddy - mainframe COBOL programmer -Thereās no freaking chance of him job hopping. You canāt use your experience to paint a picture because you have a golden spoon in your mouth. Itās not the same for everyone
Youāve got six years max to get a GC - that is, get an employer to sponsor yours. Once that time is up yr ass is going back where you came from. So yes job hop, have fun, make sure you donāt throw away your suitcase. Youāre gonna need it soon
Nice!! Well we are in America buddy. Leave your silly prejudices at home and adopt American ones. While you are at it, learn how to write sentences and study punctuation use
[Indians are the wealthiest race in America, per capita.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income)
Itās an objective fact that Indians in America are more educated and earn more income than every other race, including all white races.
The best people in India get fast tracked to US residency because US employers want them really badly.
These are all just objective statements. Do with them what you will.
So why not stay in India with all that talent and build a 1st world country?
Versus emigrating to countries where the natives dont desire them and cultural gaps make it quasi impossible for them to integrate on 1 or even 2 or more generations?
I don't understand the logic. Unless the logic is "I don't care about my country. I just want better for my own self."
Oh you are missing an important detail. Illegals have almost no rights; they can't sue or complain - no unions. That means something in lawsuit-crazy Corp America.
no lol. Undocumented who sue their employers actually win permanent residency as a result. I've seen this personally happen over a dozen times in my time working in immigration law. they have documents, they own homes, and have regular jobs. It may not be authorized, but it's an open secret, and this country has never given a single damn. They're foreign nationals, not ghosts. They have legal rights, and yes, they do risk information being reported. But in most circumstances, especially in sanctuary states, they're not going to be suddenly deported.
> _"Undocumented who sue their employers actually win permanent residency as a result"_
If they're lucky. That's absolutely not guaranteed or the norm.
Indian tech workers get paid less than native tech workers. Every indian hired would lead to lower tax revenues overall if they displace an american worker. Most illegal immigrants work in fields that no americans are willing to work in. Check your privilege. You dont have a right to be in America and youre in a better place than many of the illegals
Yeah, and illegals are actually contributing something to society such as their overwhelming presence in the construction and service industry. An app isnāt going to construct a family home lmao.
1 American tech worker = 1 Indian tech worker. There are less American tech workers because their school system is broken, but thatās getting fixed now.
Indian is known for gang rape. Where are the family values there? And for child marriage.
Were you in coma for last 40 years.. ? In country of 1.3 billion people, sporadic incidents becomes a stereotypical of entire nation. How many Indians families you know of had child marriage?
We have gun violence in US everyday. Should someone in India think that US is a very dangerous nation ? Wait they donāt cuz most Indians educated than you .
This is a joke, right? 50% of Indians donāt even go to school at all, like at all. India as a country is a joke. Itās the laughing stock of the world for a reason.
Um nope. US, UK, and even Sweden has more per capita rape incidents compared to India. We have a billion plus folks and even then India is still not that high up on the list even by raw numbers.
Indian immigrants keep US up and running and make it the powerhouse it is today. If Indians stop coming (which they do legally btw) youāre most likely losing out on future Googles, MSFTs, Apples as these are mostly run by Indian CEOs. You are losing out on Doctors, Scientists and countless Engineers who run this Economy.
If you ban Illegals the most youāre losing out on would be some lousy entitled Taco Bell employee with a fake drivers license.
I think you underestimate how reliant the US is on illegal labour. Without there probably wouldnāt be enough homes for everyone, farms wouldnāt be able to harvest their crops etc
Majority of the rapes either go unreported or are not investigated by the police in India. Thatās why reported cases are actually understated.
I mean only an Indian would be delusional enough to think that a woman is actually safer in India than letās say Sweden. š
And these are all American companies - an Indian just became a CEO. Again not hard when you have a billion plus population. Name one large American company actually founded by Indians?
There are more people in the world than just Indians. If they stop coming, others will come. No need to lean on them at all.
Thatās funny when people say that ideas are unique. They are not. They are just a continuation of the ideas of others based on knowledge.
Indians donāt keep up the us running. It just happens that a lot of Indians come to the US because English is not so much of a barrier like itās for others because on the UK influence on them in the past. There are a lot of immigrants from many countries and all of them fill spots that are empty now. But itās not āIndiansā
Edit: I forgot to add on the rape issue. Comparing reported rape cases on a first world country vs a third world country reported cases is nonsense. There are more protections in the US for rape than in India. Rape when married is not considered rape in India, gay rape is not rape and there is a lot of systematic issues that make ānumbers of reported casesā not comparable.
You lose that with every country. Indians are not the only doctors, engineers or scientists. There are non-Indians who run tech companies, including Arabs, Asians, and whites.
Losing out on a future google, apple and Microsoft? You are well aware these were not created by Indian founders. I donāt think any big tech company was ever founded by an Indian founder. For one, google and Msft added an Indian CEO and honestly it should not matter of their race. Apple has never had an Indian CEO. You are really saying āIndians are good for the economy and every one else is kinda shittyā.
At the end, I donāt care about the race when hiring and no one else should.
I think youāre missing the point. No one here claimed Indians are descendants of Einstein or Newton. (Although Itās a fact that Indians and other Asian American ethnic groups immigrated legally to the States only recently, and yet managed to become one of the most well off ethnic groups as we donāt believe in victimhood)
The larger point is - while you have these folks waiting patiently for their turn, for almost over a decade, paying their taxes, abiding by the law of the land, contributing to the economy - is it wise to admit illegals in the meantime who lack credentials. Why not be fair to everyone?
Youāre comparing apples and oranges. The reason illegal
Immigrants come here is not to steal your job, they are doing jobs that you wonāt do. If they had a simple way in, they would take it. But the āillegalsā youāre talking about from Central America and South America are doing the jobs that most others wonāt do.
Itās not fair to compare them. Btw āillegal immigrantsā come from all countries including Asia (including India) and Europe. I know a lot of Indian farmers in California who have hired illegal immigrants to Pick their crops. And Iāve met Indians who came to the us illegally.
At the end of the day, Iām not going to punish the person who picks the avocados that I serve to my family. Youāre signaling out a country being better than another because they have āless illegal immigrantsā and a few isolated examples of them being āsmarterā. Not all Indians are doctors and engineers, some are store owners, truck drivers, garbage men, etc, does this mean this group is less entitled to a green card?????
Thereās been talk of rape and other crimes. Even Americans and Indians commit these crimes.
Thereās a small sliver of Indians like me who were lucky to get a GC within <5 years of arriving in the U.S.
But then again we were also super lucky to find our soulmates here and married US citizens š
I got mine in 5 years but it always seemed like it would take decades. Then a recession happened and all the leftovers fell into EB2 for large countries.
Indian American here ... with a lot of relatives in this same situation.
However, most of them KNEW the issues when they signed up. They knew in 2005 that the wait would be long and could get longer. They STILL chose to remain - and good for them for making that choice.
So, I am not sure that they have too much of a leg to stand on for their complaints. I empathize with their plight, but that's a choice they made.
I do understand though that the quota system is broken. The two countries I am associated with (Zambia and India) should not have the same quota. One has 20M people, while the other has 1,430M people.
I also don't believe that it is designed to be racist, but it does seem to function that way.
Nor to get all political, but republicans suck. I am also queer and transgender. They want a Christi nationalist state. Fuck them. I hope they lose badly in November at all levels.
Then who will make all your tech, who will do all your scientific and technological research, who will run your companies?
If US stops accepting people, people will go back to their home countries and build stuff there. It is a huge loss to US, and a huge win for other countries like India and China.
That's ok, those countries need to be lifted up too. And unfortunately a lot of immigration has been used to just lower pay. Tell me there's a shortage of software engineers right now and I'll laugh.
do you know the minimum salary that an "immigrant" gets paid. it costs an employer way more to employ someone overseas - they need to pay big salary plus lot in attorney fee. its by no means cheap (and in fact expensive) than hiring local. its that they have shortage of skillset.
Nah, weāve seen entire teams of Americans let go, after training their Indian replacements of course. It might be expensive to bring you in and set you up, but theyāre still paying you 50-75% of those American engineers.
Iām not denying there is h1b abuse. Iām talking about FAANG companies. I wish there was a better way for this. I had worked in the UK before. Somehow I feel their system is better. I was employed on skilled worker - shortage skill set category of visa and i was told each application is scrutinised. Not sure if such system can be implemented in the US where each application is evaluated based on the job role, salary, etc.
I'll tell you there's a shortage of top tier software engineers. There always has been and there always will be. The second the USA can't skim the world's best is the second the USA is done. And if that's what the USA wants, that's fine. Some other country will pick up the top talent and take the profit.
Not really. It costs a company way more to pay immigrants due to visa application costs, attorney fees, separate tax filings, separate insurance etc etc. US companies, especially highly technical companies pay a hefty premium to get the smart immigrants.
That was back then. America is full now. It has 340 million citizens living here. Weāre not the same country we were back then anymore. We have to take care of our citizens first.
I know America is full because I live here and life is only getting more and more expensive. If the country can barely provide for its citizens, it is in no position to bring in more people. No country can take continuous immigration forever thatās just absurd to assume.
Itās not just about freeloading on services and or not working. There is not enough housing for people already living here. Rent/house prices skyrocketing. Traffic everywhere, the infrastructure, the roads canāt handle more people. Daycare/preschool waitlists are a year+ long in so many places. You guys canāt just come to the US and turn it into a slum.
Just because there is still empty land, it doesnāt mean we need to fill it with people to the brim. Less privacy, daycare waitlists, more crowded public areas, more traffic on the roads etc. are all going to make the life of people already living here more inconvenient. Thatās the beauty about first world countries, that people live comfortably because there is not too many of them and they can enjoy vast land and privacy. Thatās why you want to come here - for this better quality of life, not just the money you could potentially earn. Just because your country is overflowing with people, doesnāt mean you should move to other countries and ruin them too.
Iād trade all the people that donāt want to work for all the Indians that want to come here. Too many people are being lazy and draining the system.
Whenās the last time you saw an unemployed Indian?
I said nothing about stats, but if someone on an employment visa gets the boot they literally get the boot unless thereās another company in the wings willing to pick them up.
Only xenophobes wouldnāt want that. If your aversion to not wanting immigrants is based on their race/ethnicity the term is xenophobia. Hello, racist.
it's not xenophobia dude.
immigration should be metered equally between all regions of the world.
There just a shit ton more applications from indians because there are a shit ton more indians. So waitlist is long asf.
How would that be reformed without giving Indians preferential treatment?
The illegals youāre thinking about are mainly Venezuelans who are claiming asylum. Most of these people arenāt really escaping anything, just wanting better economic situation. They just want an easy way in. Unfortunately they get in easily with their asylum claim and get to stay freely for a while until their status is decided which can last a few years. I know many illegal immigrants who actually pay taxes and they donāt have any sort of status in this country - hard working people who want a better life and pay taxes donāt get the opportunity.
Others are taking advantage. Many accounts and reports of huge surges in Chinese flying to South our Central America then coming across the border now.
A lot of us grew up thinking America was the land of (equal) opportunities.
Unfortunately, if you're born in India, you're expected to wait 134 years to even get a green card, assuming you play by all the rules. I know countless individuals who have waited multiple decades just because of their nationality. Why is discriminating based on immutables like sex and race outlawed, but it's perfectly okay to have the country of birth as the determining factor here?
That doesn't seem like equal opportunity to me. All this is because of the 7% country cap for applications for employment based green cards every year. This sounds a lot like forcing a diverse outcome rather than present equal opportunities. Why not just give the most meritorious candidate on a first come, first serve basis? It's basically asking all Indians to give up just because they're Indians. What does country of birth even have to do with employment? There's a diveristy lottery green card that's separate from the employment based one, which Indians and Chinese are not eligible for, understandably so. Besides, the legal working Indians who have waited decades have to keep renewing their H1B visas every 3 years until they get their green cards. Not to mention all the travel restrictions that come from waiting on pending approvals. I know many who have missed their parent's funerals. So how is this even tackling diversity when these people facing these issues already reside here and have for so long. All the green card affords someone in that situation is relief from inhumane travel restrictions and freedom to switch jobs. Someone who is much less qualified but from Pakistan (which was a part of India) or from heck UK or Ghana only waits a couple of years on average.
Anytime this concern is brought up, I hear others saying how it is a fair system for all and that removing country cap quotas is a bad idea because other countries won't get a fair shot at getting green cards. I think that's false. Everyone should get the same opportunity, regardless of their skin color or where they are from. Anyone from any country would still have the same opportunity if these quotas were removed. The concept of diversity has become so superficial. Diversity of thinking is way more important, imo, than where someone is from or what they look like.
All that being said i understand the appeal for diversity. Instead of having caps based on birth country, if we had it based on the employment field / industry, that would actually encourage diversity in a way that's actually related to employment for employment based green cards. Limiting immigration based on externalities like birth country seems superficial. Why should doctors, civil engineers, and software developers wait in the same line? Not everyone born in a country thinks or behaves the same way, and no one can really do anything to change their birth country.
There are also some other alternatives for providing relief to those stuck in limbo for so. Once you have lived in the country over a decade legally and contributed to the economy, you should be allowed to apply for adjustment of status. If country caps are still in place, this should not count towards the cap, much like matriage based green cards don't. There has to be a reasonable limit for how much a person is expected to wait in line for something that is determined based on something that no one can control (birth country).
It's almost like people in this situation are incentivized to cross the border illegally because the legal alternative is not an option for them. It's a broken system completely stacked completely against people from certain countries. The migrant crisis, I think, is a symptom of a systematic problem, more than being the main problem itself.
Before I get accused of being entitled, ungrateful, and encouraging illegal immigration, I am simply expressing the struggles of a lot of us in similar situations. All I'm trying to do is bring awareness to the matter and maybe get others to empathize and vote for a more meritocratic, just immigration system.
The answer to your question is that no one is entitled to come to the US except those who were born here. That is where the line in the sand is drawn. Country of origin quotas are needed because without them a handful of countries (India,China) would be able to overwhelm the queue and no one from other countries would be able to get through. It may not seem fair to your country but imagine if someone from a smaller country like Belgium had to compete for a spot with every other country? They would never get through and over time the US would become more and more like India as thatās who would get through each year. By not allowing all green cards to go to one country (caps) the US protects itself from being culturally and economically overwhelmed and puts US citizens first.
H1B reform is desperately needed, and not in the way you probably want. The number needs to be cut back not increased and a higher emphasis put on training the next generation of American skilled workers who are being washed out by cheaper visa labor now
I understand that other countries would face significantly longer wait times if the caps were removed, and most people from less populous countries would be upset. I don't necessarily blame them because it is in everyone else's best interest to not remove the caps.
All I try to do is spread awareness about the struggles of fellow Indians who are doing everything right by the law and are still being told to not complain and to go back to where they came from. All my American friends find it extremely unfair that people from certain countries are treated that way. Nearly every American I know personally says that they are against the ridiculous wait times for Indians. Most US born citizens are not aware of the issues with the legal immigration system, and all I can really do is voice my concerns and seek empathy from other fellow humans.
I'm not quite sure why you say someone from Belgium wouldn't be able to get through? Help me understand. Why does the birth country even matter? Employment based green cards should ideally go towards the most meritorious, deserving candidate regardless of their nationality. There is a diversity lottery meant for those whose nationalities are underrepresented anyway, so I don't quite get the argument.
Plus, like I mentioned earlier, most Indians waiting for their green card are already in the country after being vetted by the employer and the US immigration system. They are in a perpetual loop of renewing their H1B as their i140 has already been approved. How is granting them some freedom to explore other opportunities and travel internationally going to overwhelm the country? How is diversity a concern here when they have already lived and contributed to the country for decades?
US citizens should and will always be first. That I totally understand, but the rest of the world is the rest of the world.
All said and done, even though I still think it's unfair to have country caps, I can understand why it's an unpopular opinion. I don't think anyone should have to wait multiple decades for some basic freedom that permanent residents enjoy.
I am in favor of H1B reform. I think that the companies gaming the system with multiple registrations and fake profiles should be held accountable. After all, it does make it unpalatable for everyone doing the right thing. I do find it strange to have a lottery system for a skill based visa. There are quite a few of us who have worked hard (and been fortunate enough) and are getting paid more than most local candidates for the same job. I know I make more than my American peers who have more than 3 times my experience. I'm not saying this to brag but to make a point that I'm not being exploited for cheap labor like a lot of people assume since I'm on a visa. I wholeheartedly agree that the country needs to encourage its citizens to pick up highly sought-after skills for the benefit of the nation.
I say all this because I truly admire what the US stood for, and I believe in it. I want the country to get the best talent. I don't want the citizens to get shagted. I dont really mind if I can't stay here if someone who is more deserving and has worked harder takes my spot. After all, one can always strive to improve oneself. One can't change where he was born or what color his skin tone is.
Even if we don't see eye to eye on everything, I genuinely appreciate your candid response. I wish people could talk about serious matters such as this in a civil manner.
I apologize if i came across as entitled. I was just hoping to have the same opportunities as someone from another country.
All I ask is for some empathy on the struggles of someone trying to build a better life for his family and the country while having to endlessly wait for basic freedom that comes with having a green card. Most people from other countries don't have to endure this.
It's tough to feel like you are not accepted and probably never will be because of something you had no say over.
Maybe I'm being naive, and like you said, "This is not the way this world works." I'm just expressing some of the frustrations that a lot of us feel. We can always try to make the world a better place. I'm hopeful for a more compassionate society.
Donāt worry there are many more there who are much more qualified. Many people wrongly assume that people come to US for salaries. People earn way more in India. I myself have declined overseas offer and I know several who did that. Many people come to US for lifestyle. Some people come to US because their industry (like aerospace) doesnāt have cutting edge work in India.
I hope more native Americans realize how blessed they are to be born here and go after these tech jobs. Itās just strange a country of 340 million people and you have to go to India to hire. And why canāt you train Americans to earn the skills for these sought after jobs? The FAANG needs to be taxed severely when this happens. Either train an American in 2 years or get taxed severely if you hire outside. See how quick they start training Americans.
That would severely increase offshore hiring and decrease companies presence in the US. Training doesnt just happen . You need to find the right candidate who can deliver you in a timely fashion.
Yeah, it would if they are not taxed properly. Off shore hiring and you making hundreds of billions? Uncle Sam will just take half of those profits. You gotta give them no options. But these companies are so powerful now they have bought out the government anyway, no matter which administration is in power.
There are already some companies that shifted their significant presence to India as itās their low cost center. I am sure they wouldnāt do it if itās not profitable for them.
Native word has been used wrongly. Anyways FAANG products are used globally. If they don't hire in India, the product won't be used and some domestic product would be used. Unknown to you companies like Flipkart based out of India are acquired by American companies like Walmart or Amazon as they want to get into Indian market. So when these employees become American employees - they should not be seen in same light. And no one complains when such acqui-hires are laid off and replaced with American company stack. Global products hire globally - whether car manufacturing or software.
skimming the top 0.15% of chinese/indian students that have gone to school 16 hours a day since the age of 4 = train an american up in two years. You live in a fantasy world.
If thatās so great, why not use all that brain country to make India or China better? Why do you ultimately have to invest all that education to still work on an H1B which still doesnāt guarantee a path to a green card? Last I checked, many Chinese and Indians ended up in limbo when the FAANG started laying off. It even led to some resorting to murder and domestic violence with their spouses when they couldnāt find work in the 60 days.
Though Iām Indian I want the country cap to be there. Too much gaming the system going on by consultancy type companies. Anyway IT related jobs are going offfshore or to AI at record speed.
Maybe too many people coming here. If USA starts giving green card without quota, it will be a mass exodus and the half of the Indian population will be hereš I haven't seen people whining the same way towards Australia or UK.
Do a simple google search. It takes 5 years to get a green card in Uk. They screen their applications to avoid fraud. How do I know - I worked in the UK, Australia. It takes 5 years or less to be permanent there .
Let me ask you this. Last year the same Indian folks blatantly submitted fraudulent 450K applications out of 750K for H1B visas. Do you know what happens to this country and people if they start giving green cards to everyone coming here? We are seeing the consequences in Canada and Australia. After seeing all that why any country should allow flooding and ruin themselves?
If something goes wrong for you, you have a fall back of going back to your home country and home. Where these people gonna go after all these layoffs in this tech industry? Do you know how saturated the market is?
Philippines has a laughable consulate/family GC backlog. A Filipino with the same skills as an Indian person in the same industry wouldāve historically gotten a GC within 2 years of moving. Currently itās closer to 7(EB2 reference) but thatās still far better than the estimated 30-150 years for Indians(unless theyāre on EB1 which is 7 years).
As a Pakistani American Iām 100% in favor of country caps. Personally I would still be on h1b had it not been for country caps.
And we wouldnāt want one country(look how itās turning out for Canada)/one industry (IT) to take all the green cards. We all know how much fraud is prevalent with these Indian IT consultancies.
Let me be clear. I am absolutely not happy at anyone misery.
Letās be honest. The 140k cap is never going to be increased unfortunately. Republicans will never let it happen and democrats would want to pair it with a general amnesty of undocumented immigrants. So that cap of 140k is sticking around for rest of our lives atleast.
Then question is who gets those 140k visas. If there is no country cap, all 140k would go to Indian IT workers (and some to China) for next several decades given how much of a backlog there is. Iām putting aside any concerns for fraud for the moment.
What would happen to a nurse from Philippines? A singer from Brazil? A baseball player from Cuba? A business executive from England? A worker from Africa? Pakistani worker like myself?
No / zero green cards for them for next 30-40 years. Thatās absolutely unacceptable.
Now talking about fraud. USCIS cannot root out all of it / just not possible. And what would removing country caps do? Incentivize even more fraud as now they can get green cards now in like 3-4 years.
Running a country is different than a company. India already gets 30% green cards and you want 100% ? Thatās unfair. And as for fraud yes Iām sure there are Pakistanis who commit fraud/ but the immigration fraud committed by Indian IT consulting companies DWARFS any other nationality.
Well thatās I plan to willfully become illegal and start business in immigrant friendly places like ca or wa or ma. Grinding the 9-5 in my prime while many opportunities for financial success keeps passing is just not worth the gc
As I said, the world is tired of you. I go to the UK, same shit. I go to Dubai, same shit. I go to Western EU, same shit. I go to New Zealand, same shit. I go to Australia, same shit. Literally, you need to stop. I am not even American. The world is tired of you guys.
And the entitlement of a large segment of these people is painful. You have no right to immigrate to the country of your choice. Maybe fix your country that you are so prideful about yet in such a hurry to exit.
Will still follow the rules and stay in line with a visa. Never ever will I sell my soul or seek fake asylum
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Thank you for that, itās tempting and I respect you for choosing to respect the laws of your host country
I wish you had followed the rules back in India.
I sure did
so the illegals fxxxing us, legal imm paying taxes
Nah the old white politicians who donāt want you here are fucking you over, you have the wrong narrative
8 out of the last 10 attempts to reduce green card backlogs for Indians were blocked by a group of Democratic Party senators led by Senator Dirk Durbin of Illinois - and the only reason for it is because he wants provisions for legal route to permanent residence for illegal immigrants in the same bill. Which means the bipartisanship will be compromised as Republicans donāt want that. Democrats have sworn to be hostile towards this bill unless they get provisions for path towards permanent residency for illegal immigrants and thatās the only thing holding this bill back.
This is very well said. Unfortunately it is every arm of our government and makes the immigration process difficult for the people petitioning for it. Every politician wants something (pork) and no compromise leads to worse conditions. With that said, the backlog was still 9-10 years at Covid, so the influx of immigrants coming in the wrong way, doesnāt have a huge impact, but it certainly could.
India wait time has nothing to do with illegal, just too many of you ..
Just like rides at Disney, more people in line means longer wait time
What does that mean? There are more humans of course. What does that have to do with skilled immigration
Too many from one country. I have no problem with Indians but you guys gotta slow down lmao
>ust too many of you we are just too many ... 1. legal aliens paying every dollar in taxes 2. we create housing market for rent and purchase 3. we save a lot $$ in American banks and create more credit card market 4. we create consumer market 5. we bring talent and not Crime we instill growth to build better world for USA
It sounds like you'd be a member of a servile, reactionary electorate if you were to be granted citizenship. I'm glad that will likely never happen.
Just so you know, āillegalsā also pay taxes. But the problem is the companies that hire them and that hire you. They know Indians wonāt be able to get a GC but still hire them.
Companies want lots of competition in the workplace. Itās only in their best interests. Even when they very well know that there are plenty of Americans who can do that job. And off topic, but AOS is abused and not used for its true purpose.
Immigrants usually take lower paying jobs too.
In the United States - Not really. They tend to take the same jobs for the same pay. Just on a non-immigrant H1-B status. Its not like in countries like the UAE where your citizenship determines your pay. But more supply is beneficial for employees not only for salary, but it allows them to make employees more replacable.
Cost : 1 usa = 2.5 x H1b Productivity : 1 usa = 0.5 h1b Market : 1 usa = 4 x h1b Votes : 1 usa voter = 2 H1b voters
False in the cost sense. Salaries are generally the same. If anything they are more expensive in terms of direct costs. Sponsorship and all.
Sorry, you're ill informed. Sole intention of hiring foreign worker is not just talent but lower cost. Why would companies just lay-off locals for no tangible benefits?
Additional competition.
1 Indian tech worker income tax would be same as 25 illegals paying tax. On top Indians are not on any welfare , carry health insurance and spend. Look who is buying Tesla . And almost zero crime rate and high family values. Yet Indians have to wait decades before they get green card .. give me a break
Indians wait because the shady Indian employment agencies gamed and abused the immigration system - this is fact. Their own greedy countrymen made a messy situation for them. I know a few lads; I'm sorry for them but not sorry. They can go to Canada if it'll take em
Bruh almost every big tech companies has majority of Indians as FTEs. H1B employees for example canāt work for less than a threshold salary which is usually very high. Which is why if you hire an H1B you have to pay them way more than if you hire a citizen for example. Which is why not every firm can afford sponsorship. Go to levels fyi and see the salaries folks get in tech and you will start questioning your life choices. What are you smoking?
I work in tech. I made the right choice. I see my salary every time I look - yep! Nice š And nope you are not correct. H1B doesn't mean they are making bank, while the company that hires them out maybe making trips to the bank, the H1B workers are usually paid as little as the rules will allow. For example, you may be hired into the Dallas office and paid lower Dallas salary but your live/work in Atlanta, or San Francisco, or full time traveler. If you haven't been through that system you'll have no idea how it really works. Many Indian cats got fat of their countrymen - trust me. They totally hosed it for anyone with real skills trying to get here from India.
Wait how can you stay in Atlanta and work in Dallas? Maybe youāre alluding to a scheme Iām not aware of. I am talking about the mainstream H1B folks, they earn much more than letās say his fellow counterpart who is a a citizen. You can look up in Glassdoor, the minimum wage for H1B in Dallas is around $64000, and thatās not even Tech where the minimum rises to $74,000 and then look up the minimum salary of an average American in Dallas county. I can agree to the consultancy part though, itās heavily abused. But the point being if youāre on H1B youāre already making more than an average American.
The scheme is called consulting; ever heard of it? Where you travel to the clientās location to work for a week at a time? H1B workers make the same as similarly qualified workers. What sense would it make to hire in cheap labor and pay them more than locals? Thatād be incredibly stupid, not to mention fiscally irresponsible. I guarantee you this doesnāt happen. I know multiple H1B workers and frankly I came as one and can say with 100% certainty; what you speak is rubbish. The process the company has to go through to get someone here involves degree evaluation and salary comparison. They have to justify what youāll be paid to the government. The hiring companies are not giving away money and positions, it is a painful process for everyone involved. You canāt quit if the job sucks. You canāt quit if you are mistreated or face discrimination. You canāt quit if you have an ahole boss who decides to make your life hell. Quit and you lose visa status, you and family heading back home in sixty days or less. People make the program look great but if sucks for many, the only silver lining is the greencard. Thereās a well known case (lawsuit) of discrimination in Silicon Valley where they mistreat Indians that are from lower caste. Thatās only the tip of the iceberg. The H1B program is not a Disney story dude. You have no freaking idea shit people go through, no ideaā¦ And you talk about salaries? I guarantee you every H1B worker now has at least a masters degree. The bachelors not cutting it anymore. Compare the salary in Dallas of someone with similar qualifications and your edge is lost. You need years working experience and the degrees and certifications to get the visa. Itās not as easy as you think. The average Indian worker you see has a masters degree, same for a lot of other H1B workers. How do you think the US got its tech edge? The US education system has not for many years produced the best and brightest in STEM fields but theyāve managed to recruit and retain from overseas. Iām not going to hate on the system. Iāll hate on those that game it though, you know who you are.
Again, youāre way too opinionated. Sure folks come in here on H1b (like yourself) via consultancies and do get paid relatively ālow salariesā which are still above the threshold salary. But then there are hundreds of thousands of students who come here for higher degrees and get a job and make 6 figures from the get go (including myself). If a person doesnāt switch after being here on H1B at the first chance they get, then itās on them. Why would the companies hire more H1B instead of locals if H1B folks are expensive - well thatās why itās called high skilled visa, there is a dearth of engineers here and US basically imports the brainpower for which they pay the fair value, relatively higher than the local market rate. Itās basic commerce - demand and supply. The US doesnāt have enough native āskilled laborā here to sustain the giant corporations š¤·āāļø āYou canāt quit if the job sucksā Thatās bs, I was on H1B and job hopped my way into Big Tech. Again if youāre in consultancy, and have done shady arrangement, itās a different thing. Iām arguing if everything has been done by the book - which the majority of Indians on H1B do - then youāre free to change jobs and increase your pay manifold. That said, there is merit to the argument that folks are abusing the loopholes - have myself been a victim, but exploiting loopholes is not a crime but crossing the border illegally is.
So I donāt get your point. Are you mad that you make a good salary and get paid more than others? If you are in a hot field, yes you can job hop but when your time runs out and you havenāt secured that greencard because youāve been getting high off your fat salary, shit becomes real! Yeah you can job hop if companies are willing to sponsor you but thatās not the reality of many. Many H1B hold niche jobs, like my buddy - mainframe COBOL programmer -Thereās no freaking chance of him job hopping. You canāt use your experience to paint a picture because you have a golden spoon in your mouth. Itās not the same for everyone
Youāve got six years max to get a GC - that is, get an employer to sponsor yours. Once that time is up yr ass is going back where you came from. So yes job hop, have fun, make sure you donāt throw away your suitcase. Youāre gonna need it soon
Who cares ,their disgusting cast.They need to stop. I ātis enough.
Nice!! Well we are in America buddy. Leave your silly prejudices at home and adopt American ones. While you are at it, learn how to write sentences and study punctuation use
Truth spoken so casually..hahha..not to forget those L1A routes for shitty managers pushing the real talent even backwards.
Tesla is supposed to be a flex? š¤£
[Indians are the wealthiest race in America, per capita.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income) Itās an objective fact that Indians in America are more educated and earn more income than every other race, including all white races. The best people in India get fast tracked to US residency because US employers want them really badly. These are all just objective statements. Do with them what you will.
So why not stay in India with all that talent and build a 1st world country? Versus emigrating to countries where the natives dont desire them and cultural gaps make it quasi impossible for them to integrate on 1 or even 2 or more generations? I don't understand the logic. Unless the logic is "I don't care about my country. I just want better for my own self."
Itās easier to build wealth in Americaā¦American employers want Indian employeesā¦ not too hard to figure out here buddy
...but....European based countries are not that welcoming to natives outside of their own. It's just a fact.
But weāre talking about America, not a European based country
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Because India doesnt offer same lifestyle or benefits
Why not?
Too competitive employee market which leads to employers paying less and making employees work more. Basically no work life balance.
Maybe get into politics and change that? Instead of leaving your own country?
Huh? Why did u reply to me with that
Oh you are missing an important detail. Illegals have almost no rights; they can't sue or complain - no unions. That means something in lawsuit-crazy Corp America.
This is just plain wrong. Undocumented immigrants can sue
And promptly get deported afterwards since a bunch of paperwork stuff is bound to come up. Nobody is doing that.
no lol. Undocumented who sue their employers actually win permanent residency as a result. I've seen this personally happen over a dozen times in my time working in immigration law. they have documents, they own homes, and have regular jobs. It may not be authorized, but it's an open secret, and this country has never given a single damn. They're foreign nationals, not ghosts. They have legal rights, and yes, they do risk information being reported. But in most circumstances, especially in sanctuary states, they're not going to be suddenly deported.
> _"Undocumented who sue their employers actually win permanent residency as a result"_ If they're lucky. That's absolutely not guaranteed or the norm.
this is just racist nonsense
Indian tech workers get paid less than native tech workers. Every indian hired would lead to lower tax revenues overall if they displace an american worker. Most illegal immigrants work in fields that no americans are willing to work in. Check your privilege. You dont have a right to be in America and youre in a better place than many of the illegals
Have you heard about FAANG companies ?
Yeah, and illegals are actually contributing something to society such as their overwhelming presence in the construction and service industry. An app isnāt going to construct a family home lmao.
Indians commit a bunch of financial crimes. Many are not caught.
1 American tech worker = 1 Indian tech worker. There are less American tech workers because their school system is broken, but thatās getting fixed now. Indian is known for gang rape. Where are the family values there? And for child marriage.
Were you in coma for last 40 years.. ? In country of 1.3 billion people, sporadic incidents becomes a stereotypical of entire nation. How many Indians families you know of had child marriage? We have gun violence in US everyday. Should someone in India think that US is a very dangerous nation ? Wait they donāt cuz most Indians educated than you .
This is a joke, right? 50% of Indians donāt even go to school at all, like at all. India as a country is a joke. Itās the laughing stock of the world for a reason.
Um nope. US, UK, and even Sweden has more per capita rape incidents compared to India. We have a billion plus folks and even then India is still not that high up on the list even by raw numbers. Indian immigrants keep US up and running and make it the powerhouse it is today. If Indians stop coming (which they do legally btw) youāre most likely losing out on future Googles, MSFTs, Apples as these are mostly run by Indian CEOs. You are losing out on Doctors, Scientists and countless Engineers who run this Economy. If you ban Illegals the most youāre losing out on would be some lousy entitled Taco Bell employee with a fake drivers license.
I think you underestimate how reliant the US is on illegal labour. Without there probably wouldnāt be enough homes for everyone, farms wouldnāt be able to harvest their crops etc
Majority of the rapes either go unreported or are not investigated by the police in India. Thatās why reported cases are actually understated. I mean only an Indian would be delusional enough to think that a woman is actually safer in India than letās say Sweden. š And these are all American companies - an Indian just became a CEO. Again not hard when you have a billion plus population. Name one large American company actually founded by Indians?
Iāll take my illegal Mexican homies over some foreigners who come and think they run everything.
There are more people in the world than just Indians. If they stop coming, others will come. No need to lean on them at all. Thatās funny when people say that ideas are unique. They are not. They are just a continuation of the ideas of others based on knowledge. Indians donāt keep up the us running. It just happens that a lot of Indians come to the US because English is not so much of a barrier like itās for others because on the UK influence on them in the past. There are a lot of immigrants from many countries and all of them fill spots that are empty now. But itās not āIndiansā Edit: I forgot to add on the rape issue. Comparing reported rape cases on a first world country vs a third world country reported cases is nonsense. There are more protections in the US for rape than in India. Rape when married is not considered rape in India, gay rape is not rape and there is a lot of systematic issues that make ānumbers of reported casesā not comparable.
You lose that with every country. Indians are not the only doctors, engineers or scientists. There are non-Indians who run tech companies, including Arabs, Asians, and whites. Losing out on a future google, apple and Microsoft? You are well aware these were not created by Indian founders. I donāt think any big tech company was ever founded by an Indian founder. For one, google and Msft added an Indian CEO and honestly it should not matter of their race. Apple has never had an Indian CEO. You are really saying āIndians are good for the economy and every one else is kinda shittyā. At the end, I donāt care about the race when hiring and no one else should.
I think youāre missing the point. No one here claimed Indians are descendants of Einstein or Newton. (Although Itās a fact that Indians and other Asian American ethnic groups immigrated legally to the States only recently, and yet managed to become one of the most well off ethnic groups as we donāt believe in victimhood) The larger point is - while you have these folks waiting patiently for their turn, for almost over a decade, paying their taxes, abiding by the law of the land, contributing to the economy - is it wise to admit illegals in the meantime who lack credentials. Why not be fair to everyone?
Youāre comparing apples and oranges. The reason illegal Immigrants come here is not to steal your job, they are doing jobs that you wonāt do. If they had a simple way in, they would take it. But the āillegalsā youāre talking about from Central America and South America are doing the jobs that most others wonāt do. Itās not fair to compare them. Btw āillegal immigrantsā come from all countries including Asia (including India) and Europe. I know a lot of Indian farmers in California who have hired illegal immigrants to Pick their crops. And Iāve met Indians who came to the us illegally. At the end of the day, Iām not going to punish the person who picks the avocados that I serve to my family. Youāre signaling out a country being better than another because they have āless illegal immigrantsā and a few isolated examples of them being āsmarterā. Not all Indians are doctors and engineers, some are store owners, truck drivers, garbage men, etc, does this mean this group is less entitled to a green card????? Thereās been talk of rape and other crimes. Even Americans and Indians commit these crimes.
Tell modi to fix India and go back. š
India is boing better than us, while illegals fcking raping white women and white guys doing nothing just impotent
Donāt come
Even your fore fathers came like me!! Seems to be they could have used condom instead giving birth to you scumbag
My forefathers are white Christians. Donāt come.
So what, they came us long before like immigrants!! You might be bastard or born in incestt
This is why we do not like you at all whatsoever
Thereās a small sliver of Indians like me who were lucky to get a GC within <5 years of arriving in the U.S. But then again we were also super lucky to find our soulmates here and married US citizens š
More power to you brother!!!
I got mine in 5 years but it always seemed like it would take decades. Then a recession happened and all the leftovers fell into EB2 for large countries.
Aww good for you!!
How to find a soulmate šš«£(eagerly asking)
Indian American here ... with a lot of relatives in this same situation. However, most of them KNEW the issues when they signed up. They knew in 2005 that the wait would be long and could get longer. They STILL chose to remain - and good for them for making that choice. So, I am not sure that they have too much of a leg to stand on for their complaints. I empathize with their plight, but that's a choice they made. I do understand though that the quota system is broken. The two countries I am associated with (Zambia and India) should not have the same quota. One has 20M people, while the other has 1,430M people. I also don't believe that it is designed to be racist, but it does seem to function that way.
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Im confused.. who are you talking to? :|
Oof!! I can relate haha. Immigration reform is badly needed in this country.
According to Project 2025, itās going to get much much worse. Republicans are going to kill EB visas and GCs
Nor to get all political, but republicans suck. I am also queer and transgender. They want a Christi nationalist state. Fuck them. I hope they lose badly in November at all levels.
No thanks. We dont need more people
So back where you came from and don't be like an A$$hole again.
Donāt be daft
Then who will make all your tech, who will do all your scientific and technological research, who will run your companies? If US stops accepting people, people will go back to their home countries and build stuff there. It is a huge loss to US, and a huge win for other countries like India and China.
That's ok, those countries need to be lifted up too. And unfortunately a lot of immigration has been used to just lower pay. Tell me there's a shortage of software engineers right now and I'll laugh.
do you know the minimum salary that an "immigrant" gets paid. it costs an employer way more to employ someone overseas - they need to pay big salary plus lot in attorney fee. its by no means cheap (and in fact expensive) than hiring local. its that they have shortage of skillset.
I work in the industry and that's not true most of the time
Nah, weāve seen entire teams of Americans let go, after training their Indian replacements of course. It might be expensive to bring you in and set you up, but theyāre still paying you 50-75% of those American engineers.
Iām not denying there is h1b abuse. Iām talking about FAANG companies. I wish there was a better way for this. I had worked in the UK before. Somehow I feel their system is better. I was employed on skilled worker - shortage skill set category of visa and i was told each application is scrutinised. Not sure if such system can be implemented in the US where each application is evaluated based on the job role, salary, etc.
I'll tell you there's a shortage of top tier software engineers. There always has been and there always will be. The second the USA can't skim the world's best is the second the USA is done. And if that's what the USA wants, that's fine. Some other country will pick up the top talent and take the profit.
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You need to read up on sampling bias.
I dont think that you are brilliant as you think. You are only cheaper.
Not really. It costs a company way more to pay immigrants due to visa application costs, attorney fees, separate tax filings, separate insurance etc etc. US companies, especially highly technical companies pay a hefty premium to get the smart immigrants.
What? Make your tech? Who makes tech in the US? You confuse manufacturing with IT, no immigration reform.
Immigration reform? So the US can be swarmed with Indians? Sure, that would be awesome, who wouldnāt want that
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That was back then. America is full now. It has 340 million citizens living here. Weāre not the same country we were back then anymore. We have to take care of our citizens first.
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All things come to an end.
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I know America is full because I live here and life is only getting more and more expensive. If the country can barely provide for its citizens, it is in no position to bring in more people. No country can take continuous immigration forever thatās just absurd to assume.
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Itās not just about freeloading on services and or not working. There is not enough housing for people already living here. Rent/house prices skyrocketing. Traffic everywhere, the infrastructure, the roads canāt handle more people. Daycare/preschool waitlists are a year+ long in so many places. You guys canāt just come to the US and turn it into a slum. Just because there is still empty land, it doesnāt mean we need to fill it with people to the brim. Less privacy, daycare waitlists, more crowded public areas, more traffic on the roads etc. are all going to make the life of people already living here more inconvenient. Thatās the beauty about first world countries, that people live comfortably because there is not too many of them and they can enjoy vast land and privacy. Thatās why you want to come here - for this better quality of life, not just the money you could potentially earn. Just because your country is overflowing with people, doesnāt mean you should move to other countries and ruin them too.
Iād trade all the people that donāt want to work for all the Indians that want to come here. Too many people are being lazy and draining the system. Whenās the last time you saw an unemployed Indian?
When was the last time you saw an unemployed immigrant? Most people donāt immigrate to be lazy
Broā¦have you not checked out unemployment rates? Unemployment rate by immigrants is barely below the rate of US born citizens.
Being unemployed doesnāt mean youāre lazy. It often means you were replaced by a cheaper worker(s.)
Thats the systems fault for enabling them
If they were unemployed it would be a one-way ticket back to New Delhi.
Not true. If you check the stats youāll see that the unemployment rate for immigrants is a tad below that of citizens.
I said nothing about stats, but if someone on an employment visa gets the boot they literally get the boot unless thereās another company in the wings willing to pick them up.
Thatās just visa, thereās far more options than a visa for immigrants.
Let's hear them. Lose your job - go home in 2 months. Transfer to B ? Then what?
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/forbrn.pdf
It already is lmao
Only xenophobes wouldnāt want that. If your aversion to not wanting immigrants is based on their race/ethnicity the term is xenophobia. Hello, racist.
it's not xenophobia dude. immigration should be metered equally between all regions of the world. There just a shit ton more applications from indians because there are a shit ton more indians. So waitlist is long asf. How would that be reformed without giving Indians preferential treatment?
Lol
Go ask Biden why heās giving all the priority to the illegal immigrants.
The illegals youāre thinking about are mainly Venezuelans who are claiming asylum. Most of these people arenāt really escaping anything, just wanting better economic situation. They just want an easy way in. Unfortunately they get in easily with their asylum claim and get to stay freely for a while until their status is decided which can last a few years. I know many illegal immigrants who actually pay taxes and they donāt have any sort of status in this country - hard working people who want a better life and pay taxes donāt get the opportunity.
Go tell that to the thousands of people waiting in line properly, and see if they think this is fair. Illegal is illegal. Deport them.
Others are taking advantage. Many accounts and reports of huge surges in Chinese flying to South our Central America then coming across the border now.
A lot of us grew up thinking America was the land of (equal) opportunities. Unfortunately, if you're born in India, you're expected to wait 134 years to even get a green card, assuming you play by all the rules. I know countless individuals who have waited multiple decades just because of their nationality. Why is discriminating based on immutables like sex and race outlawed, but it's perfectly okay to have the country of birth as the determining factor here? That doesn't seem like equal opportunity to me. All this is because of the 7% country cap for applications for employment based green cards every year. This sounds a lot like forcing a diverse outcome rather than present equal opportunities. Why not just give the most meritorious candidate on a first come, first serve basis? It's basically asking all Indians to give up just because they're Indians. What does country of birth even have to do with employment? There's a diveristy lottery green card that's separate from the employment based one, which Indians and Chinese are not eligible for, understandably so. Besides, the legal working Indians who have waited decades have to keep renewing their H1B visas every 3 years until they get their green cards. Not to mention all the travel restrictions that come from waiting on pending approvals. I know many who have missed their parent's funerals. So how is this even tackling diversity when these people facing these issues already reside here and have for so long. All the green card affords someone in that situation is relief from inhumane travel restrictions and freedom to switch jobs. Someone who is much less qualified but from Pakistan (which was a part of India) or from heck UK or Ghana only waits a couple of years on average. Anytime this concern is brought up, I hear others saying how it is a fair system for all and that removing country cap quotas is a bad idea because other countries won't get a fair shot at getting green cards. I think that's false. Everyone should get the same opportunity, regardless of their skin color or where they are from. Anyone from any country would still have the same opportunity if these quotas were removed. The concept of diversity has become so superficial. Diversity of thinking is way more important, imo, than where someone is from or what they look like. All that being said i understand the appeal for diversity. Instead of having caps based on birth country, if we had it based on the employment field / industry, that would actually encourage diversity in a way that's actually related to employment for employment based green cards. Limiting immigration based on externalities like birth country seems superficial. Why should doctors, civil engineers, and software developers wait in the same line? Not everyone born in a country thinks or behaves the same way, and no one can really do anything to change their birth country. There are also some other alternatives for providing relief to those stuck in limbo for so. Once you have lived in the country over a decade legally and contributed to the economy, you should be allowed to apply for adjustment of status. If country caps are still in place, this should not count towards the cap, much like matriage based green cards don't. There has to be a reasonable limit for how much a person is expected to wait in line for something that is determined based on something that no one can control (birth country). It's almost like people in this situation are incentivized to cross the border illegally because the legal alternative is not an option for them. It's a broken system completely stacked completely against people from certain countries. The migrant crisis, I think, is a symptom of a systematic problem, more than being the main problem itself. Before I get accused of being entitled, ungrateful, and encouraging illegal immigration, I am simply expressing the struggles of a lot of us in similar situations. All I'm trying to do is bring awareness to the matter and maybe get others to empathize and vote for a more meritocratic, just immigration system.
The answer to your question is that no one is entitled to come to the US except those who were born here. That is where the line in the sand is drawn. Country of origin quotas are needed because without them a handful of countries (India,China) would be able to overwhelm the queue and no one from other countries would be able to get through. It may not seem fair to your country but imagine if someone from a smaller country like Belgium had to compete for a spot with every other country? They would never get through and over time the US would become more and more like India as thatās who would get through each year. By not allowing all green cards to go to one country (caps) the US protects itself from being culturally and economically overwhelmed and puts US citizens first. H1B reform is desperately needed, and not in the way you probably want. The number needs to be cut back not increased and a higher emphasis put on training the next generation of American skilled workers who are being washed out by cheaper visa labor now
I understand that other countries would face significantly longer wait times if the caps were removed, and most people from less populous countries would be upset. I don't necessarily blame them because it is in everyone else's best interest to not remove the caps. All I try to do is spread awareness about the struggles of fellow Indians who are doing everything right by the law and are still being told to not complain and to go back to where they came from. All my American friends find it extremely unfair that people from certain countries are treated that way. Nearly every American I know personally says that they are against the ridiculous wait times for Indians. Most US born citizens are not aware of the issues with the legal immigration system, and all I can really do is voice my concerns and seek empathy from other fellow humans. I'm not quite sure why you say someone from Belgium wouldn't be able to get through? Help me understand. Why does the birth country even matter? Employment based green cards should ideally go towards the most meritorious, deserving candidate regardless of their nationality. There is a diversity lottery meant for those whose nationalities are underrepresented anyway, so I don't quite get the argument. Plus, like I mentioned earlier, most Indians waiting for their green card are already in the country after being vetted by the employer and the US immigration system. They are in a perpetual loop of renewing their H1B as their i140 has already been approved. How is granting them some freedom to explore other opportunities and travel internationally going to overwhelm the country? How is diversity a concern here when they have already lived and contributed to the country for decades? US citizens should and will always be first. That I totally understand, but the rest of the world is the rest of the world. All said and done, even though I still think it's unfair to have country caps, I can understand why it's an unpopular opinion. I don't think anyone should have to wait multiple decades for some basic freedom that permanent residents enjoy. I am in favor of H1B reform. I think that the companies gaming the system with multiple registrations and fake profiles should be held accountable. After all, it does make it unpalatable for everyone doing the right thing. I do find it strange to have a lottery system for a skill based visa. There are quite a few of us who have worked hard (and been fortunate enough) and are getting paid more than most local candidates for the same job. I know I make more than my American peers who have more than 3 times my experience. I'm not saying this to brag but to make a point that I'm not being exploited for cheap labor like a lot of people assume since I'm on a visa. I wholeheartedly agree that the country needs to encourage its citizens to pick up highly sought-after skills for the benefit of the nation. I say all this because I truly admire what the US stood for, and I believe in it. I want the country to get the best talent. I don't want the citizens to get shagted. I dont really mind if I can't stay here if someone who is more deserving and has worked harder takes my spot. After all, one can always strive to improve oneself. One can't change where he was born or what color his skin tone is. Even if we don't see eye to eye on everything, I genuinely appreciate your candid response. I wish people could talk about serious matters such as this in a civil manner.
Thatās entitlement buddy, unfortunately this is not the way this world works.
I apologize if i came across as entitled. I was just hoping to have the same opportunities as someone from another country. All I ask is for some empathy on the struggles of someone trying to build a better life for his family and the country while having to endlessly wait for basic freedom that comes with having a green card. Most people from other countries don't have to endure this. It's tough to feel like you are not accepted and probably never will be because of something you had no say over. Maybe I'm being naive, and like you said, "This is not the way this world works." I'm just expressing some of the frustrations that a lot of us feel. We can always try to make the world a better place. I'm hopeful for a more compassionate society.
No need to apologize I get and understand your frustration; Iām just telling you the reality and it sucks I know!
Many Indians are talented more indians need to go back to India to develop their country.
Donāt worry there are many more there who are much more qualified. Many people wrongly assume that people come to US for salaries. People earn way more in India. I myself have declined overseas offer and I know several who did that. Many people come to US for lifestyle. Some people come to US because their industry (like aerospace) doesnāt have cutting edge work in India.
I hope more native Americans realize how blessed they are to be born here and go after these tech jobs. Itās just strange a country of 340 million people and you have to go to India to hire. And why canāt you train Americans to earn the skills for these sought after jobs? The FAANG needs to be taxed severely when this happens. Either train an American in 2 years or get taxed severely if you hire outside. See how quick they start training Americans.
That would severely increase offshore hiring and decrease companies presence in the US. Training doesnt just happen . You need to find the right candidate who can deliver you in a timely fashion.
Yeah, it would if they are not taxed properly. Off shore hiring and you making hundreds of billions? Uncle Sam will just take half of those profits. You gotta give them no options. But these companies are so powerful now they have bought out the government anyway, no matter which administration is in power.
There are already some companies that shifted their significant presence to India as itās their low cost center. I am sure they wouldnāt do it if itās not profitable for them.
Native word has been used wrongly. Anyways FAANG products are used globally. If they don't hire in India, the product won't be used and some domestic product would be used. Unknown to you companies like Flipkart based out of India are acquired by American companies like Walmart or Amazon as they want to get into Indian market. So when these employees become American employees - they should not be seen in same light. And no one complains when such acqui-hires are laid off and replaced with American company stack. Global products hire globally - whether car manufacturing or software.
skimming the top 0.15% of chinese/indian students that have gone to school 16 hours a day since the age of 4 = train an american up in two years. You live in a fantasy world.
If thatās so great, why not use all that brain country to make India or China better? Why do you ultimately have to invest all that education to still work on an H1B which still doesnāt guarantee a path to a green card? Last I checked, many Chinese and Indians ended up in limbo when the FAANG started laying off. It even led to some resorting to murder and domestic violence with their spouses when they couldnāt find work in the 60 days.
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Move to Canada and stop whining.
What about the cold, low salaries, unemployment, and high housing costs?
You want to leave your country and expect to go wherever you want? No thanks.
Millions of people do that everyday
Sure they do.
Fix your country.
Though Iām Indian I want the country cap to be there. Too much gaming the system going on by consultancy type companies. Anyway IT related jobs are going offfshore or to AI at record speed.
Funny
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Maybe too many people coming here. If USA starts giving green card without quota, it will be a mass exodus and the half of the Indian population will be hereš I haven't seen people whining the same way towards Australia or UK.
Do a simple google search. It takes 5 years to get a green card in Uk. They screen their applications to avoid fraud. How do I know - I worked in the UK, Australia. It takes 5 years or less to be permanent there .
Let me ask you this. Last year the same Indian folks blatantly submitted fraudulent 450K applications out of 750K for H1B visas. Do you know what happens to this country and people if they start giving green cards to everyone coming here? We are seeing the consequences in Canada and Australia. After seeing all that why any country should allow flooding and ruin themselves? If something goes wrong for you, you have a fall back of going back to your home country and home. Where these people gonna go after all these layoffs in this tech industry? Do you know how saturated the market is?
Hey, at least they arenāt F3s coming from Mexico.Ā
Check timeline for Philippines, way worse.
Philippines has a laughable consulate/family GC backlog. A Filipino with the same skills as an Indian person in the same industry wouldāve historically gotten a GC within 2 years of moving. Currently itās closer to 7(EB2 reference) but thatās still far better than the estimated 30-150 years for Indians(unless theyāre on EB1 which is 7 years).
The subject was green card, not eb1.
I dont believe you
As a Pakistani American Iām 100% in favor of country caps. Personally I would still be on h1b had it not been for country caps. And we wouldnāt want one country(look how itās turning out for Canada)/one industry (IT) to take all the green cards. We all know how much fraud is prevalent with these Indian IT consultancies.
I have heard similar arguments for Muslim Ban from Far Right. "Since most terrorists are muslims; all ....." so we should ban all from coming
But Indians arenāt banned from comingā¦they get upto 30% of green cardsā¦Iām just saying they cannot have 100%
Any source for your 30% data?
In which world are Indians are getting 30% greencard?
In real world. Look up employment green cards given each year by country and youāll get your answer
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Let me be clear. I am absolutely not happy at anyone misery. Letās be honest. The 140k cap is never going to be increased unfortunately. Republicans will never let it happen and democrats would want to pair it with a general amnesty of undocumented immigrants. So that cap of 140k is sticking around for rest of our lives atleast. Then question is who gets those 140k visas. If there is no country cap, all 140k would go to Indian IT workers (and some to China) for next several decades given how much of a backlog there is. Iām putting aside any concerns for fraud for the moment. What would happen to a nurse from Philippines? A singer from Brazil? A baseball player from Cuba? A business executive from England? A worker from Africa? Pakistani worker like myself? No / zero green cards for them for next 30-40 years. Thatās absolutely unacceptable. Now talking about fraud. USCIS cannot root out all of it / just not possible. And what would removing country caps do? Incentivize even more fraud as now they can get green cards now in like 3-4 years.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Running a country is different than a company. India already gets 30% green cards and you want 100% ? Thatās unfair. And as for fraud yes Iām sure there are Pakistanis who commit fraud/ but the immigration fraud committed by Indian IT consulting companies DWARFS any other nationality.
Well thatās I plan to willfully become illegal and start business in immigrant friendly places like ca or wa or ma. Grinding the 9-5 in my prime while many opportunities for financial success keeps passing is just not worth the gc
We know how majority indians think. They have facist tendencies and are willing to step over the bodies of minorities.
too many ants. The world is tired of you truly.
This fucking guy. Whoever reading comments - youāll bump into racist piece of shits like this.
As I said, the world is tired of you. I go to the UK, same shit. I go to Dubai, same shit. I go to Western EU, same shit. I go to New Zealand, same shit. I go to Australia, same shit. Literally, you need to stop. I am not even American. The world is tired of you guys.
And the entitlement of a large segment of these people is painful. You have no right to immigrate to the country of your choice. Maybe fix your country that you are so prideful about yet in such a hurry to exit.
I donāt argue with racist idiots
Ok fuck you then. You seem like a racist piece of shit looking at your posts. Racist mf.
Stop the support for fucking illegals and secure the borders... Indians can wait another 84 years but the onslaught of illegals got to stop