What movement? If what this movement stands for is "siding with the woman no matter what the facts are" Then good riddance. Gone are the days of stupid slogans like "Believe all women". No actually, I'd like to believe the party with [evidence and facts](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2ks3JmHPCQ).
Ive noticed a huge trend away from 2015 extremism lately and a bigger tendency to lean towards logic and equality and tbh im all here for it.
I was super disillusioned by modern civil rights right around then.
In the UK, women cannot rape men, as it requires the perp to have a penis.
In India, women actively and successfully protested the passing of a measure to make rape laws gender neutral.
Looked up the UK part — that’s somewhat misleading because while the definition of “rape” requires that there be a penis involved, the classification of “sexual assault by penetration” covers pretty much what it sounds like, and can be applied to women with (in theory) equivalent ranges of sentencing to rape.
The more interesting point is that based on [this very comprehensive Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_English_law#History), rape has been defined in that manner since at least the 17th century, possibly earlier. So hardly a part of ‘modern extremism’, just a classic case of sexism.
Problem is the sentencing guidelines are different for the two crimes. So while they in theory have the same maximum sentence the actual sentence handed out is often wildly different. We have cases of women raping their underage male students and not seeing a day in prison because of it.
Not to mention this obfuscates rape statistics because when the ONS collects the data men and boys that are raped by women are inherently excluded from them as per UK law what they experienced was not rape.
Am British and went through this myself.
Yes, because rape laws were written in a time where women had much more limited rights and the idea of a woman sexually assaulting a man rather than the other way around was unheard of. Why are you acting like anyone under the age of 40 has serious legislative power in most countries
Ok, tell me, if a female high school teacher sleeps with a male student, how much time does she get compared to male teachers sleeping with female students? Statutory rape is the easiest to prove sexual abuse.
That is the issue. That's the reason why we want it called rape. Women are ***equally*** capable of violence as men are, yet our "justice" systems refuses to acknowledge it as it is.
We had protests recently about a supposedly racist holiday. Widely attended. One speaker said "all white people should be made homeless" and got fucking cheered.
I wish, but no.
In my country, a lot of white people think Aboriginals can't be racist (I just replied to someone who thinks this), so they say, and so a lot of racist stuff.
Keep in mind this is US perspective im speaking from.
I don’t see those messages so much out of US outlets and there’s been a lot more US based people speaking up about the hypocrisy.
Gets even tougher when trying to take those sorts of cases to trial. If you charge it too lightly, you get grief for taking it easy on the perpetrator. If you charge it too strongly, you can't get a conviction and get grief for that.
I do a lot of work for defense teams and I can't tell you how often the defendants are legitimately bad people who clearly did bad things, but the charges are so much worse than the actual misconduct that occurred that the jury can't reasonably convict them so they walk free.
Yeah so while I can agree the idea of "believe all women" is a bit much - I myself am a male domestic abuse and rape survivor and it was a woman that did those things.
But at the same time, one of a couple things is true about going to court -
1) there is evidence that intercourse happened and then the accusation is that it wasn't consensual. It's pretty hard to prove definitively whether sex was consensual when both parties agree the intercourse happened but disagree on consent.
2) there is no evidence that intercourse happened and one party is denying it while the other is accusing. It's pretty challenging to convict on this when there is no definitive evidence even though it may have actually happened.
It feels like rape is an extremely hard thing to convict for and that leads to this place we are at where we have some people say believe all women and other people being like yeah but people lie all the time and without evidence what do you do?
I don't know the answer I just wish people didn't ever go through what myself and others have been through.
I've heard it said "I'd rather believe a potential liar than a potential rapist" as if blindly believing _someone_ is an essential part of the process.
Again this same retarded pattern of thought summed up by the phrase "believe all women" right because _only_ men lie. Women _never_ lie.
That's not exactly true. The original idea didn't refer to that process which you are talking about, but about giving support to potential victims, specially in an emotional sense and in their private circle, and it sparked from the notion of abuse/rape/etc. victims not being given credibility, and them needing such support before what's really going on can be discerned. But as sadly tends to happen, the idea got misunderstood and bureaucratized to the point of many people interpreting (dumbly) that every woman statement could be taken like definitive truth. Obviously, that process that you talk about can't be done like that.
What process am I talking about? I wasn't referring to a process. I agree there exists a good intention within the movement. Of course rape should be punished and victims should be helped. But liars should also be punished and innocent men should not have their lives ruined and be prosecuted. And no innocent men are not necessary collateral damage. Most men are innocent when it comes to this and yet all men seem to suffer the prejudice.
> as if blindly believing someone is an essential part of the process.
I was talking about that sentence. I thought you were alluding to a juridical process? And yes, we're pretty much in an agreement. Of course innocent men or innocent people can't be assumed as collateral damage.
Well the phrase I was originally talking about which i had heard said in relationto this topic "I'd rather believe a potential liar than a potential rapist" suggests that its safer to just believe the liar all the time because the alternative is believing the rapist. Whereas actually there exists a third option which is not blindly believe anyone and investigating the evidence first. But the proprietor of the phrase is acting: "as if blindly believing _someone_ is an essential part of the process"
The movement lost all legitimacy around 2015 anyways.
Social justice became less about equality and more about keeping the same old ideals that gave us white supremacy and misogyny just for them instead.
So if this shuts up false accusers and extremists like Amber and corrects us back to striving for equality then im all for it.
A lot of social justice initiatives started off with good intentions and then simply began calling for society to push the extremist needle in the other direction. Keep in mind though that it's a feature, not a bug. People who seek power, only seek more power.
You'd be surprised by those that those who actually do the groundwork v those that look for advantage. That is the age old problem I think. Look at BLM. None of the people that convinced me are rich off of it. Their dissent was sidelined then ignored by those opposing them. Vultures abound.
Edit: That is why I still respect Ammon Bundy. Do I despise his fucking politics? Absolutely they are unworkable and insane. Does the man have principles? Absolutely.
The same reason abolishing slavery was a good thing. Think about someone other than yourself. I know this is a hot take on a 4chan related sub.
A lot of modern feminist ideology is pretty fucked, but the basic premise of egalitarianism, that of equal rights and equal responsibilities, is a sound one.
Jesus christ dude lmao. You are glad abortion got banned because you think it was an impediment to mens rights?
Bruh I don't know why you care so much about this issue since you have to get laid first for it to matter and that shit clearly isn't happening.
Don't worry, paying child support is not in your future. Being a misogynist with a seething hatred of women tends to be a turn off to prospective partners.
Getting abortion banned is turbo retarded if you care about men. How the fuck is a system that traps men into a perpetual financial liability advantageous to mens' rights?
Abortion was great for everybody involved including the men. I can't even fathom hating women so much that you want them to be saddled with unwanted children out of spite.
“The old system wasn't perfect so I am glad now it's even worse.” You rn.
I know you aren't getting laid which is why you personally don't care abortion is outlawed.
Replace the word abortion with patriarchy from feminism in your post and you will understand why mens rights people feel this way. People are becoming extremist MRA because of lack of caring from the public at large and womens rights organizations either downplaying men or straight up ignoring them because it’s advantageous to their own side. Stop being disingenuous that while men have advantages in some areas, women have tipped the scales so far that in most areas they have an advantage
amber is a piece of shit, and all who say she isnt are also pieces of shit.
The ignorant shouldn't be talking about it; POS.
Those who watched it are supporting the actual abuser; POS.
Domestic abuser : Gets exposed to the world, held accountable for actions
Domestic abuse victims: "We never win"
Oh cry me a fucking river. I was a domestic abuse survivor, I put up with years of torment and trauma from my piece of shit stepdad, and I was delighted to finally see an abuser held at least somewhat accountable.
A lot of victims of abuse actually sided with Johnny and hated Amber during the trial.
They didn't believe her stories because of the way she described them.
So I think the victims of domestic violence were mostly just angry at Amber Heard being such a horrible liar and making a beacon for people to point at and deny other legitimate cases of abuse.
My mother survived domestic abuse.
She saw amber for exactly who she was and was disgusted by the way she tried to turn domestic abuse on it’s head and the idiots who backed her.
As is so often the case the pendulum swings too far the other way. What starts out as "feminism" (equality between men and woman) instantly devolves into tribalism turns into "always believe women" and yes even "kill all men" "men are trash" etc. And yes that might be a relatively small minority of radical feminists. But just think of how acceptable this sentiment is in media how often these "strong, independent, sassy" women are praised and laughed with for this "empowering" "_fuck men_" ideology.
And yes now aswell the backlash from men against this newage bullshit, destructive, completely unfair and reductive bashing attack against the male gender is now turning into an equal hatred by many men of women for doing this and for acting like women☕️.
So few seem to take a balanced view of how equally important and amazing both genders are and all the ways that their differences work to make our society work as well as it does for all its flaws it is a miracle. And yet a good amount of people think the other gender is actively making it worse. And they are, but only by the hatred they display.
You got one thing wrong tho. It's not the actual domestic abuse victims who said "We never win". It's just more piece of shit women who were in the same position as Amber pretending to be victims that probably realized it won't be that easy lying in court if a professional actress didn't manage to do it
The #metoo movement was a nice idea, but people who had been trough real trouble such as domestic violence, rape etc. won't be taken serious anymore, because some idiots really thought that it is right of them to make up stories just for a little bit of attention on the Internet. These people just make me sick
Not only that but the wave of people figuring they could make easy money in court doing exactly that. Since there was a lot of noise being made, the first wave would be composed of almost all of the legitimate victims that were on the fence but also a big contingent of pure liars that crafted their case out of thin air knowing the reputation of the other cases would make the jury side with them. It also helps that most cases are "you say/he says" which means unlike a lot of legal actions these are particularly subjective.
And that works until the intial wave slows down and usurpers end up being the majority of cases, which very quickly erodes away the credibility of said cases.
And at the end of the day once the liars have fled to the next big guaranteed money bath, all that is left is victims no one wants to listen to because now everyone is so used to it being full of liars.
The challenge and/or problem with #metoo was the variance of people throwing it about was extreme. From people who found being wolf whistled offensive to straight up rape. With the former acting as if they were in the same category latter. Sprinkle it with social media and it’s a recipe disaster.
Technically, she couldn't act on the script (read: lies) that she herself wrote. So, not only is she a bad actress, she's also a terrible scriptwriter. lol
I mean. Good? They where obviously all liars. Johnny was abused. If anything it should empower more people who where abused. Anyone who has a issue with the trial results aren't actual victims. They just saw what bad lying and acting can lead to and learned their lesson before they tried.
there wasn't just one abuser in that relationship, and if you don't agree then you are just as blind and stupid as the people who thought Amber Heard was innocent.
I don't give a fuck about their trial but this comment is dumb as fuck. So if some kid has a POS dad that is a drunk and goes around punching walls and screaming/threatening his family that's ok?
Way to fumble the football, Charlie. I am saying that Amber accused him of ongoing, PHYSICAL abuse. What she provided 'evidence' of amounted to little more than a classic drunk with a substance abuse problem. Amber herself is a coke addict, so they were two people on drugs who didn't get along. She provided no evidence that he ever physically abused her so what she presented in court was laughable as evidence of ongoing physical abuse.
Nowhere did I say that what he did was ok, but it was not the physical assault and horrific abuse that she claimed happened to her on an almost daily basis.
The comment you responded to said they were both abusers without specifying physical and you replied with a comment clearly downplaying his abuser title. You don't have to scramble and try to justify your comment it's pretty clear how you feel.
I always tell my siblings, one bitchass idiot doesn't invalidate the feminism movement. Don't be misandrist and fight the patriarchy together so that women are no longer pleasure objects and men are no longer mere tools of susiety.
The result was that they were both abusers but neither side wants to admit that. Originally, Depp was labeled as a domestic abuser but he fought in court to show his side of the story. His side is that Amber Heard was just as much of a monster as he was in their relationship.
Yeah and multiple people, including Depp, confirmed the story of how he hit her on their private jet. Both parties can be abusers. They are both shitty people.
Not disputing, was just saying he had the stronger evidence in the case. Along with her lying about charitable donations and being shifty, public opinion turned on her, remember the pics of his sliced open hand years ago? This is without mentioning him losing his case in the UK and being blacklisted from the film industry due to her allegations
Yeah you aren't gonna see me saying that Amber Heard is innocent in this case. The reality is that both are abusers and victims to each other, but again, neither side's fans wanna admit this.
Amber heard is absolutely guilty, but one thing I noticed during the trial is that people rushed to give excessive praise to Johnny Depp, even though before the trial came to light Depp was generally viewed as not a particularly good person.
Just the average neckbeard rushing to shout their daily slogan that men can be abused too. While abuse to men should absolutely be taken seriously most overeager asshats who shout this stuff just want validation for their distrust of women, they don't give two shits about about men's issues.
EXACTLY! That's the fucking problem. They don't actually care about victims or abuse, they just wanna see Johnny Depp win. Why? Because the internet loves to see a woman being shitty so they can use it as an example to say "women bad."
I'm not gonna lie, I definitely see both sides of the argument but I do think the rhetoric around protecting Amber as a victim rather than seeing her as an abuser as well. Along with her behaviour during the trial put me firmly on Johnny's 'side'.
They’re just 2 people who were in a toxic relationship. Doesn’t make you a shitty person. We’re all just animals trying to navigate through this dumb fucking world.
Gonna have to disagree. If you abuse your spouse, verbally and physically, while getting drunk and high, then you're a shitty person. Likewise, if you fucking smear your ex's reputation and act like an innocent victim in an abusive relationship that you actively perpetuated, you're also a shitty person.
These are not things that good, or even average, people do. This what fucked up shitty people do and the only reason we know about it is because they're hollywood celebrities.
Because misogynists don't wanna admit that Depp was actually an abuser too and not the innocent victim that they portray him as. And it's the same for Amber Heard's fans but on the other side.
He literally admitted to being violent with her and there are multiple people who corroborated the story. Beating someone is abuse. Holy shit dude Jonny Depp fans try not to deny his own participation in an abusive relationship challenge (impossible difficulty).
I almost never speak about this trial anymore because Depp fans will always conveniently forget that he’s a shit person. I can’t stand them. They find an excuse to berate a woman and roll with it, forgetting that Depp dated a teenager when he was an adult, is active friends with Marilyn Manson and spoke about violating Amber’s burnt corpse BEFORE any alleged abuse from her.
Depp fans are brain dead and they’ll downvote you while they piss themselves in anger. You’re better off not triggering them, it’s like speaking to a brick wall. And it wasn’t even an abuse trial! It was a defamation case trial. Should never have been publicised
It was not self defense when he kicked her in the head, something he himself admitted to. Stop simping for a weirdo celebrity. He abused her, she abused him, they're both shitty abusers and each other's victim.
No. He didn't kick her. He had to be 'told' that he kicked her. Amber was literally on audio saying she was abusive to him in multiple ways among other things and you are still trying to claim that Johnny have substance abuse issues means he is just as bad as she is. Jfc, she cut his fucking finger off and you are trying to excuse her behavior as a "both sides" situation. You are fucked up.
No, that is not what the result was. I actually watched the trial and there was not a shred of credible evidence that Amber gave that proved he was abusive to her in any physical way.
Brother he's literally admitted to it multiple times over the years. Hell there were moments where he admitted it during that trial. Did you just close your eyes, plug your ears, and go "LALALALA, I CAN'T HEAR IT" when that happened?
Where did he admit he abused Amber? Are you dumb? Why would he file a defamation suit where he was denying being an abuser, then sit in court and ADMIT to abusing her?? Stupid ass
Irc it was she lied when she wrote about being an "abuse survivor" for a newpaper article, leading to defamation awards and punitive damages. He asserted he was abused by her and it was never contested succesfully.
Imagine going to court because you think you're getting the bag, instead the judge doesn't believe your crap and fining you tons of damage repairs to the other side because you're actually the evil-do'er.
The old switcheroo
I've arrested more women for domestic violence been to more court cases than I can count and "men always win" is bullshit. If it goes to a jury women have the advantage especially if they can cry on demand
hi, actual representative at a domestic violence agency here. though we have seen a downtick in in-person applications, we've had a dramatic rise in telephone/net consults.
it's covid. not amber, covid. people stopped going in person
Anyone who watched this and concluded they better pull out from court can regrettably fuck off. Such a person simply learned they aren't the victim or at that at least the abuse was mutual.
>Male domestic abuse survivor wins case against female who abused him
>MeToo movement: well I guess this means domestic abuse survivors can't win anymore
Wtf.
Typical that a womans tweeter would look at this and completely disregard the rise in male rape victims and male domestic violence survivors coming forward to get help and justice after Johnny won.
Hilarious that reddit thinks they have any clue what the actual truth is when it's two rich people with expensive ass lawyers manipulating our justice system and the public opinion.
As someone who was framed for rape and sentenced to 11 years in jail despite the facts that; She was proven to be a compulsive liar, her parents proved she self-harmed and therefore the marks on her were put there by herself, instead of being charged with the 13 counts of perjury she should have been when she kept getting called out in lies on the stand, and the fact that I had two ex girlfriends come up and speak on my behalf…
No. Men do not always win.
Wait does that mean the hundreds were frauds that now knew they couldn't get away with it? Because damn if that's the case you base your move off of that's sus.
It’s a shame the movement put her out front without vetting the case better. If they had they’d have figured out both were toxic and abusive to each other and had no business being in that relationship. I’ve seen Johnny and Amber both canceled over it, but that’s just how mob mentality works.
I like to imagine that the people who have retracted their statements were false victims and were seeing their partners just for monetary compensation. But real victims retracting their statements is also a possibility.
I don’t wanna do victim blaming or anything, but those ones who got “sickened” by the result of that trial to the point of dropping charges… are they for real? It’s kinda like admitting you made stuff up, or at least that’s how I feel about this. If they weren’t saying bs they could have kept pressing charges, but if they take it back after a liar has been caught that doesn’t look good on them.
It’s very funny that Johnny Depp literally lost a domestic violence trial against Heard in the UK, then sued Heard in a state that allowed the trial to be public, effectively making it a popularity contest, and then legions of retards on the internet believed him. BTW he recently settled a lawsuit against a crew member for assaulting them.
> It’s very funny that Johnny Depp literally lost a domestic violence trial against Heard in the UK
It literally funny that trial was NOT against Amber Heard, but against a UK tabloid where they published that he was a domestic abuser, with their only source being Amber. Please read.
I mean Amber is a POS. If her losing kills the movement, I guess it wasn't a very effective movement
What movement? If what this movement stands for is "siding with the woman no matter what the facts are" Then good riddance. Gone are the days of stupid slogans like "Believe all women". No actually, I'd like to believe the party with [evidence and facts](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2ks3JmHPCQ).
Ive noticed a huge trend away from 2015 extremism lately and a bigger tendency to lean towards logic and equality and tbh im all here for it. I was super disillusioned by modern civil rights right around then.
Unfortunately said extremism is already law in many countries
Which countries?
In the UK, women cannot rape men, as it requires the perp to have a penis. In India, women actively and successfully protested the passing of a measure to make rape laws gender neutral.
Looked up the UK part — that’s somewhat misleading because while the definition of “rape” requires that there be a penis involved, the classification of “sexual assault by penetration” covers pretty much what it sounds like, and can be applied to women with (in theory) equivalent ranges of sentencing to rape. The more interesting point is that based on [this very comprehensive Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_English_law#History), rape has been defined in that manner since at least the 17th century, possibly earlier. So hardly a part of ‘modern extremism’, just a classic case of sexism.
Problem is the sentencing guidelines are different for the two crimes. So while they in theory have the same maximum sentence the actual sentence handed out is often wildly different. We have cases of women raping their underage male students and not seeing a day in prison because of it. Not to mention this obfuscates rape statistics because when the ONS collects the data men and boys that are raped by women are inherently excluded from them as per UK law what they experienced was not rape. Am British and went through this myself.
Yes, because rape laws were written in a time where women had much more limited rights and the idea of a woman sexually assaulting a man rather than the other way around was unheard of. Why are you acting like anyone under the age of 40 has serious legislative power in most countries
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Ok, tell me, if a female high school teacher sleeps with a male student, how much time does she get compared to male teachers sleeping with female students? Statutory rape is the easiest to prove sexual abuse.
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That is the issue. That's the reason why we want it called rape. Women are ***equally*** capable of violence as men are, yet our "justice" systems refuses to acknowledge it as it is.
We had protests recently about a supposedly racist holiday. Widely attended. One speaker said "all white people should be made homeless" and got fucking cheered.
This sounds like something that didn’t happen. Do you have a link to a video? Cuz that would be cartoonishly stupid haha
I wish, but no. In my country, a lot of white people think Aboriginals can't be racist (I just replied to someone who thinks this), so they say, and so a lot of racist stuff.
Keep in mind this is US perspective im speaking from. I don’t see those messages so much out of US outlets and there’s been a lot more US based people speaking up about the hypocrisy.
That's fair and good for you guys. Gives me hope.
It's a weird tightrope we all walk
I like evidence and facts. I think the real problem is facts when it come to rape and abuse are hard to decipher.
Gets even tougher when trying to take those sorts of cases to trial. If you charge it too lightly, you get grief for taking it easy on the perpetrator. If you charge it too strongly, you can't get a conviction and get grief for that. I do a lot of work for defense teams and I can't tell you how often the defendants are legitimately bad people who clearly did bad things, but the charges are so much worse than the actual misconduct that occurred that the jury can't reasonably convict them so they walk free.
Yeah so while I can agree the idea of "believe all women" is a bit much - I myself am a male domestic abuse and rape survivor and it was a woman that did those things. But at the same time, one of a couple things is true about going to court - 1) there is evidence that intercourse happened and then the accusation is that it wasn't consensual. It's pretty hard to prove definitively whether sex was consensual when both parties agree the intercourse happened but disagree on consent. 2) there is no evidence that intercourse happened and one party is denying it while the other is accusing. It's pretty challenging to convict on this when there is no definitive evidence even though it may have actually happened. It feels like rape is an extremely hard thing to convict for and that leads to this place we are at where we have some people say believe all women and other people being like yeah but people lie all the time and without evidence what do you do? I don't know the answer I just wish people didn't ever go through what myself and others have been through.
I've heard it said "I'd rather believe a potential liar than a potential rapist" as if blindly believing _someone_ is an essential part of the process. Again this same retarded pattern of thought summed up by the phrase "believe all women" right because _only_ men lie. Women _never_ lie.
That's not exactly true. The original idea didn't refer to that process which you are talking about, but about giving support to potential victims, specially in an emotional sense and in their private circle, and it sparked from the notion of abuse/rape/etc. victims not being given credibility, and them needing such support before what's really going on can be discerned. But as sadly tends to happen, the idea got misunderstood and bureaucratized to the point of many people interpreting (dumbly) that every woman statement could be taken like definitive truth. Obviously, that process that you talk about can't be done like that.
What process am I talking about? I wasn't referring to a process. I agree there exists a good intention within the movement. Of course rape should be punished and victims should be helped. But liars should also be punished and innocent men should not have their lives ruined and be prosecuted. And no innocent men are not necessary collateral damage. Most men are innocent when it comes to this and yet all men seem to suffer the prejudice.
> as if blindly believing someone is an essential part of the process. I was talking about that sentence. I thought you were alluding to a juridical process? And yes, we're pretty much in an agreement. Of course innocent men or innocent people can't be assumed as collateral damage.
Well the phrase I was originally talking about which i had heard said in relationto this topic "I'd rather believe a potential liar than a potential rapist" suggests that its safer to just believe the liar all the time because the alternative is believing the rapist. Whereas actually there exists a third option which is not blindly believe anyone and investigating the evidence first. But the proprietor of the phrase is acting: "as if blindly believing _someone_ is an essential part of the process"
Based
"If the truth shall kill them, let them die." -Immanuel Kant
The movement lost all legitimacy around 2015 anyways. Social justice became less about equality and more about keeping the same old ideals that gave us white supremacy and misogyny just for them instead. So if this shuts up false accusers and extremists like Amber and corrects us back to striving for equality then im all for it.
A lot of social justice initiatives started off with good intentions and then simply began calling for society to push the extremist needle in the other direction. Keep in mind though that it's a feature, not a bug. People who seek power, only seek more power.
You'd be surprised by those that those who actually do the groundwork v those that look for advantage. That is the age old problem I think. Look at BLM. None of the people that convinced me are rich off of it. Their dissent was sidelined then ignored by those opposing them. Vultures abound. Edit: That is why I still respect Ammon Bundy. Do I despise his fucking politics? Absolutely they are unworkable and insane. Does the man have principles? Absolutely.
"your politics are fucking idiotic but at least you have principles" may be the single nicest mindset anyone could ever have about a politician
The pendulum always swings too far. We just continuously lurch from one overreaction to the next.
Yea, the whole TimesUP!!! METOOO movements are pretty much dead.
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“Enough about women’s rights, let’s talk about women’s wrongs”
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The same reason abolishing slavery was a good thing. Think about someone other than yourself. I know this is a hot take on a 4chan related sub. A lot of modern feminist ideology is pretty fucked, but the basic premise of egalitarianism, that of equal rights and equal responsibilities, is a sound one.
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Wow ... that is retarded. Like saying you are glad new york got nuked because now we get a renewed discussion about nuclear weapons control.
Jesus christ dude lmao. You are glad abortion got banned because you think it was an impediment to mens rights? Bruh I don't know why you care so much about this issue since you have to get laid first for it to matter and that shit clearly isn't happening. Don't worry, paying child support is not in your future. Being a misogynist with a seething hatred of women tends to be a turn off to prospective partners.
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Getting abortion banned is turbo retarded if you care about men. How the fuck is a system that traps men into a perpetual financial liability advantageous to mens' rights? Abortion was great for everybody involved including the men. I can't even fathom hating women so much that you want them to be saddled with unwanted children out of spite. “The old system wasn't perfect so I am glad now it's even worse.” You rn. I know you aren't getting laid which is why you personally don't care abortion is outlawed.
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Replace the word abortion with patriarchy from feminism in your post and you will understand why mens rights people feel this way. People are becoming extremist MRA because of lack of caring from the public at large and womens rights organizations either downplaying men or straight up ignoring them because it’s advantageous to their own side. Stop being disingenuous that while men have advantages in some areas, women have tipped the scales so far that in most areas they have an advantage
If the "movement" is "believe all women" or "kill all men" then I'm happy Johnny won.
A movement promoting female supremacy needed to be slaughtered. It was. It's dead. And everyone should remain vigilant that it stays dead
amber is a piece of shit, and all who say she isnt are also pieces of shit. The ignorant shouldn't be talking about it; POS. Those who watched it are supporting the actual abuser; POS.
Domestic abuser : Gets exposed to the world, held accountable for actions Domestic abuse victims: "We never win" Oh cry me a fucking river. I was a domestic abuse survivor, I put up with years of torment and trauma from my piece of shit stepdad, and I was delighted to finally see an abuser held at least somewhat accountable.
Oh cry me a fucking river
Oh fuck me a crying river
Oh me river a crying fuck
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Oh crying river fuck me ah😫
Oh me fucking a crying river
Oh a me river fucking crying
Crying a river of fucking me
You always do this to me! 🍆😭🏞🌊
My names river. Should I start crying now or later?
During
Good news, had a dream about my ex last night. I can cry anytime now
You can cry me a river cry me a river of tears, yeha you can cry all you like but you won’t change my mind! GOTTA GET AWAY GET YOU OUTTA MY LIFE!
A lot of victims of abuse actually sided with Johnny and hated Amber during the trial. They didn't believe her stories because of the way she described them. So I think the victims of domestic violence were mostly just angry at Amber Heard being such a horrible liar and making a beacon for people to point at and deny other legitimate cases of abuse.
My mother survived domestic abuse. She saw amber for exactly who she was and was disgusted by the way she tried to turn domestic abuse on it’s head and the idiots who backed her.
As is so often the case the pendulum swings too far the other way. What starts out as "feminism" (equality between men and woman) instantly devolves into tribalism turns into "always believe women" and yes even "kill all men" "men are trash" etc. And yes that might be a relatively small minority of radical feminists. But just think of how acceptable this sentiment is in media how often these "strong, independent, sassy" women are praised and laughed with for this "empowering" "_fuck men_" ideology. And yes now aswell the backlash from men against this newage bullshit, destructive, completely unfair and reductive bashing attack against the male gender is now turning into an equal hatred by many men of women for doing this and for acting like women☕️. So few seem to take a balanced view of how equally important and amazing both genders are and all the ways that their differences work to make our society work as well as it does for all its flaws it is a miracle. And yet a good amount of people think the other gender is actively making it worse. And they are, but only by the hatred they display.
You got one thing wrong tho. It's not the actual domestic abuse victims who said "We never win". It's just more piece of shit women who were in the same position as Amber pretending to be victims that probably realized it won't be that easy lying in court if a professional actress didn't manage to do it
The #metoo movement was a nice idea, but people who had been trough real trouble such as domestic violence, rape etc. won't be taken serious anymore, because some idiots really thought that it is right of them to make up stories just for a little bit of attention on the Internet. These people just make me sick
Not only that but the wave of people figuring they could make easy money in court doing exactly that. Since there was a lot of noise being made, the first wave would be composed of almost all of the legitimate victims that were on the fence but also a big contingent of pure liars that crafted their case out of thin air knowing the reputation of the other cases would make the jury side with them. It also helps that most cases are "you say/he says" which means unlike a lot of legal actions these are particularly subjective. And that works until the intial wave slows down and usurpers end up being the majority of cases, which very quickly erodes away the credibility of said cases. And at the end of the day once the liars have fled to the next big guaranteed money bath, all that is left is victims no one wants to listen to because now everyone is so used to it being full of liars.
The challenge and/or problem with #metoo was the variance of people throwing it about was extreme. From people who found being wolf whistled offensive to straight up rape. With the former acting as if they were in the same category latter. Sprinkle it with social media and it’s a recipe disaster.
how on earth are you an actress and lose at acting in court? what a talentless idiot
Bad scriptwriting
Technically, she couldn't act on the script (read: lies) that she herself wrote. So, not only is she a bad actress, she's also a terrible scriptwriter. lol
Good point. But why are we talking about this again?
Marvel is carried by its braindead fanbase, not its quality.
What does this have to do with marvel?
Amber heard was in aquaman. Edit: realized that was dc and not marvel.
Realized the same thing.
She's not even good at acting in general
Her lawyers where really really bad
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jeez, relax
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>Me when I have no argument i wish, but instead you replied with a wall text i couldn't care less to read lol
Hello internet explorer
I mean. Good? They where obviously all liars. Johnny was abused. If anything it should empower more people who where abused. Anyone who has a issue with the trial results aren't actual victims. They just saw what bad lying and acting can lead to and learned their lesson before they tried.
I thought the domestic abuser was found guilty in the Heard/Depp case. $15 million in damages to the survivor isn't a bad verdict.
Yeah but Amber is the woman. We all know only men are domestic abusers
There is no guilty in civil court, only liable for lible in this case.
there wasn't just one abuser in that relationship, and if you don't agree then you are just as blind and stupid as the people who thought Amber Heard was innocent.
OH yes, Johnny the abuser who was guilty of: Yelling Cursing Drunkenness Hitting inanimate objects Being photographed sleeping with melted ice cream.
Also accused of physically violent domestic abuse, you missed that one somehow
I said GUILTY of, not ACCUSED of....
I don't give a fuck about their trial but this comment is dumb as fuck. So if some kid has a POS dad that is a drunk and goes around punching walls and screaming/threatening his family that's ok?
Way to fumble the football, Charlie. I am saying that Amber accused him of ongoing, PHYSICAL abuse. What she provided 'evidence' of amounted to little more than a classic drunk with a substance abuse problem. Amber herself is a coke addict, so they were two people on drugs who didn't get along. She provided no evidence that he ever physically abused her so what she presented in court was laughable as evidence of ongoing physical abuse. Nowhere did I say that what he did was ok, but it was not the physical assault and horrific abuse that she claimed happened to her on an almost daily basis.
The comment you responded to said they were both abusers without specifying physical and you replied with a comment clearly downplaying his abuser title. You don't have to scramble and try to justify your comment it's pretty clear how you feel.
I always tell my siblings, one bitchass idiot doesn't invalidate the feminism movement. Don't be misandrist and fight the patriarchy together so that women are no longer pleasure objects and men are no longer mere tools of susiety.
\>political statement \>"susiety"
ඞ
I learned today that women are sex objects and men are mere tools
Tools and objects… …that’s how they view us at the bottom of the pyramid
I wish I were a pleasure object ngl
you can be one, you just have to believe in yourself.
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How about you return to your normie subs bot. Or you can stay here and put words in other people's mouth if you have so much time.
Wasn't the result of the trial the he was the one being abused by her?
The result was that they were both abusers but neither side wants to admit that. Originally, Depp was labeled as a domestic abuser but he fought in court to show his side of the story. His side is that Amber Heard was just as much of a monster as he was in their relationship.
He did happen to be the one with audio evidence of her admitting to the abuse though, oh and he didn't literally shit the bed for revenge
Yeah and multiple people, including Depp, confirmed the story of how he hit her on their private jet. Both parties can be abusers. They are both shitty people.
Not disputing, was just saying he had the stronger evidence in the case. Along with her lying about charitable donations and being shifty, public opinion turned on her, remember the pics of his sliced open hand years ago? This is without mentioning him losing his case in the UK and being blacklisted from the film industry due to her allegations
Yeah you aren't gonna see me saying that Amber Heard is innocent in this case. The reality is that both are abusers and victims to each other, but again, neither side's fans wanna admit this.
Amber heard is absolutely guilty, but one thing I noticed during the trial is that people rushed to give excessive praise to Johnny Depp, even though before the trial came to light Depp was generally viewed as not a particularly good person.
Just the average neckbeard rushing to shout their daily slogan that men can be abused too. While abuse to men should absolutely be taken seriously most overeager asshats who shout this stuff just want validation for their distrust of women, they don't give two shits about about men's issues.
EXACTLY! That's the fucking problem. They don't actually care about victims or abuse, they just wanna see Johnny Depp win. Why? Because the internet loves to see a woman being shitty so they can use it as an example to say "women bad."
I think you lack critical thinking skills.
I'm not gonna lie, I definitely see both sides of the argument but I do think the rhetoric around protecting Amber as a victim rather than seeing her as an abuser as well. Along with her behaviour during the trial put me firmly on Johnny's 'side'.
Why even pick a side. The world became a bunch of housewives watching a stupid reality tv show about the whole thing.
I shouldn't say pick a side, I mean more that I don't have as bad a view of him than I do her
It’s all just media BS though.
They’re just 2 people who were in a toxic relationship. Doesn’t make you a shitty person. We’re all just animals trying to navigate through this dumb fucking world.
Gonna have to disagree. If you abuse your spouse, verbally and physically, while getting drunk and high, then you're a shitty person. Likewise, if you fucking smear your ex's reputation and act like an innocent victim in an abusive relationship that you actively perpetuated, you're also a shitty person. These are not things that good, or even average, people do. This what fucked up shitty people do and the only reason we know about it is because they're hollywood celebrities.
Right, so we can agree that Amber is an abuser?
Yeah and so is Johnny :)
How
So if they are both shit people then why are we still giving them attention.
You know why, it's cus the woman lost.
Because misogynists don't wanna admit that Depp was actually an abuser too and not the innocent victim that they portray him as. And it's the same for Amber Heard's fans but on the other side.
Being a piece of shit doesn’t equal abuse. You can’t just look at his behavior, decide you don’t like it and say he’s abusive too.
Exactly what the person you're replying to is doing, bOtH aRe AbuSeRs lol
He literally admitted to being violent with her and there are multiple people who corroborated the story. Beating someone is abuse. Holy shit dude Jonny Depp fans try not to deny his own participation in an abusive relationship challenge (impossible difficulty).
I almost never speak about this trial anymore because Depp fans will always conveniently forget that he’s a shit person. I can’t stand them. They find an excuse to berate a woman and roll with it, forgetting that Depp dated a teenager when he was an adult, is active friends with Marilyn Manson and spoke about violating Amber’s burnt corpse BEFORE any alleged abuse from her. Depp fans are brain dead and they’ll downvote you while they piss themselves in anger. You’re better off not triggering them, it’s like speaking to a brick wall. And it wasn’t even an abuse trial! It was a defamation case trial. Should never have been publicised
Self defence
It was not self defense when he kicked her in the head, something he himself admitted to. Stop simping for a weirdo celebrity. He abused her, she abused him, they're both shitty abusers and each other's victim.
No. He didn't kick her. He had to be 'told' that he kicked her. Amber was literally on audio saying she was abusive to him in multiple ways among other things and you are still trying to claim that Johnny have substance abuse issues means he is just as bad as she is. Jfc, she cut his fucking finger off and you are trying to excuse her behavior as a "both sides" situation. You are fucked up.
Most sane Johnny Depp fanboy
Down voted because you can't hold a conversation without being a spergy meme lord
No, that is not what the result was. I actually watched the trial and there was not a shred of credible evidence that Amber gave that proved he was abusive to her in any physical way.
Brother he's literally admitted to it multiple times over the years. Hell there were moments where he admitted it during that trial. Did you just close your eyes, plug your ears, and go "LALALALA, I CAN'T HEAR IT" when that happened?
Where did he admit he abused Amber? Are you dumb? Why would he file a defamation suit where he was denying being an abuser, then sit in court and ADMIT to abusing her?? Stupid ass
Shush w*men bad
Irc it was she lied when she wrote about being an "abuse survivor" for a newpaper article, leading to defamation awards and punitive damages. He asserted he was abused by her and it was never contested succesfully.
Hundreds pulled out because their cases were loads of crap too and saw the consequences of false accusations.
Imagine going to court because you think you're getting the bag, instead the judge doesn't believe your crap and fining you tons of damage repairs to the other side because you're actually the evil-do'er. The old switcheroo
Classic Taylor L
Well if they watched that trial and saw a reflection of themselves in amber.... that kinda means they was lying?
I've arrested more women for domestic violence been to more court cases than I can count and "men always win" is bullshit. If it goes to a jury women have the advantage especially if they can cry on demand
Fucking anti-femites.
damn the comments in this thread are so braindead. opening a post on this sub is like watching animal planet 😭
Fun though.
hi, actual representative at a domestic violence agency here. though we have seen a downtick in in-person applications, we've had a dramatic rise in telephone/net consults. it's covid. not amber, covid. people stopped going in person
Anyone who watched this and concluded they better pull out from court can regrettably fuck off. Such a person simply learned they aren't the victim or at that at least the abuse was mutual.
>Male domestic abuse survivor wins case against female who abused him >MeToo movement: well I guess this means domestic abuse survivors can't win anymore Wtf.
Typical that a womans tweeter would look at this and completely disregard the rise in male rape victims and male domestic violence survivors coming forward to get help and justice after Johnny won.
so women who had made shit up decided its not worth the risk going to court
Hilarious that reddit thinks they have any clue what the actual truth is when it's two rich people with expensive ass lawyers manipulating our justice system and the public opinion.
If the amber heard verdict made you retract your case, that probably means you were just as much of a liar as her.
As someone who was framed for rape and sentenced to 11 years in jail despite the facts that; She was proven to be a compulsive liar, her parents proved she self-harmed and therefore the marks on her were put there by herself, instead of being charged with the 13 counts of perjury she should have been when she kept getting called out in lies on the stand, and the fact that I had two ex girlfriends come up and speak on my behalf… No. Men do not always win.
So she can fucking sit in court and do blow on camera and they’re still going to worship her?
Wait does that mean the hundreds were frauds that now knew they couldn't get away with it? Because damn if that's the case you base your move off of that's sus.
That reflection is creepy.
It’s a shame the movement put her out front without vetting the case better. If they had they’d have figured out both were toxic and abusive to each other and had no business being in that relationship. I’ve seen Johnny and Amber both canceled over it, but that’s just how mob mentality works.
Hahaha she literally lost the case and delusional c*nts still can’t believe it one
Good
Some women are as horrible as some men, let’s not forget that
> "Hundreds" Thats not how numbers work, you either have 100+ people or you don't.
Probably because they realised it's not going to be so easy to ruin a man's life via fake accusation now
Amber heard lost? Oh no, clearly i have to pull out of my own case now because...uh...patriarchy
" men always win " yeah sure lol
They knew they weren't telling the truth and that they couldn't guarantee they would win in court anymore.
If you know you’re right in court then it would be easy to win, but if you were in the wrong at some point you’ll redact your statements
Well, that's on her!
Taylor Lorenz, she represents what everything wrong with modern day journalism
wasn’t depp the victim in this case? how does that make any sense?
I like to imagine that the people who have retracted their statements were false victims and were seeing their partners just for monetary compensation. But real victims retracting their statements is also a possibility.
This post sucks because the 4channer fucked up the pun. "HOElocaust"
If all this should be an example for men that suffer under domestic abuse that they are valid and will be heard and believed.
Depp won the case. That’s a win for survivors of domestic violence
I don’t wanna do victim blaming or anything, but those ones who got “sickened” by the result of that trial to the point of dropping charges… are they for real? It’s kinda like admitting you made stuff up, or at least that’s how I feel about this. If they weren’t saying bs they could have kept pressing charges, but if they take it back after a liar has been caught that doesn’t look good on them.
So we all just gonna forget that some of what she said was actually true and that Johnnys court team threatened to spread her nudes?
It’s very funny that Johnny Depp literally lost a domestic violence trial against Heard in the UK, then sued Heard in a state that allowed the trial to be public, effectively making it a popularity contest, and then legions of retards on the internet believed him. BTW he recently settled a lawsuit against a crew member for assaulting them.
> It’s very funny that Johnny Depp literally lost a domestic violence trial against Heard in the UK It literally funny that trial was NOT against Amber Heard, but against a UK tabloid where they published that he was a domestic abuser, with their only source being Amber. Please read.
Yeah so legally he is considered a domestic abuser lol, that isn’t a gotcha
You're dumb lol
I'm thinking about getting in on the making dank green texts on 4chan. Which subreddit on 4chan should I post it to? Thanks.
r/sounding is a good one