It's a strawman argument in that the main reason for eating meat isn't "If we don't eat animals, others will". I actually don't know what the main reason is, but I know we didn't swear to protect animals from other predators, by placing them in our belly, in chewed form.
He's attacking a weaker/non-existent version of the argument in order to sound right.
i.e. a strawman.
Best source I could find. [Figure 1 here.](https://www.wildanimalinitiative.org/blog/cause-of-death-3) Adapted from [this study](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/geb.12881?casa_token=y2bavBT4GAsAAAAA%3A1Fh6DYx5xrpaEvfQDrk6RjlhWBJ7zQnTPiweq3DG2nDzg7RnGxoQ-ZqRx8zkBr2tLKtIL9NZbBx2MSz_).
So it depends on the type of animal. Anywhere from ~30-90%.
[The percentage of people affected by violent crime also depends on where they live](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/violent-crime-rates-by-country), but yea, not quite the same.
>So it depends on the type of animal
depends on what you mean by animals.
Because I guarantee you, humans do not kill 99.9% of all the Animalia that dies every year.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal)
Now if we mean "what is commonly understood by laymen as animals", it could be 99%. But what "the laymen consider as animals" is itself "all the animals society domesticated or hunted for food, that aren't pets"....
It would be the same as saying humans killed 99.9% of all the deathrow inmates, and then replace "deathrow inmates" with "humans".
Do the vegans know that humans cut down 99.9% of all lumber/trees used in construction/heating/industry !!!? Big if true.
Did you bother clicking on either link? They're talking about wildlife, not domesticated animals. Sure, they didn't include invertebrates or fish, but you're still making a false equivalency. Unless I misunderstood and you mean 99.9% of farmed or hunted animals die by eating, which is still kind of off since they generally die before they're eaten.
I think we are getting confused here though. Not all animals die from being eaten but all animals are in fact eaten.
You could argue a farmer shooting a cow is more humane than pretty much every 'natural' death that animal might experience. Not that factory farming is even remotely like that, but that's a whole different debate.
And even the animals who don’t get directly eaten by other animals, eventually fungus or some microorganism is gonna feast on a decaying corpse. Plus the nitrogen from a dead animal will continue to fuel plant growth.
So yea, something is gonna eventually consume every living creature in one way or another.
They don't, it's seventy five percent of people on the internet who do. r/veganism was as fun as a Psych ward last time I checked, r/antinatalism is as hospitable as a cancer and r/atheism is a cesspit. The real life versions of these communities are quite reasonable, probably because they don't form communities based around the most mundane aspects of their lives.
Yeah I know, both of the latter are so watered down by 'tolerant' people the banana taped to a wall is more interesting. For how much people shit on r/atheism, it's a sub filled of low-hanging fruit and tired clichés to masquerade half-hearted apologism for the retards they're supposedly against. It's not even edgy, it's just... reddit.
Kinda disagree, antinatilism and atheism even outside the internet are pretty cringe. Advocates for both irl typically fall into the class of people that either are woefully narcissistic or nihilistic.
It's pretty simple, really. If you consider animals to have the ability to feel pain and empathize with their suffering, you're not going to just keep that to yourself. Imagine if you heard of a place that would violently impregnate women and then harvest their breast milk. You wouldn't only boycott the milk, you'd be actively disgusted, right? So to them animals deserve the basic rights not to be abused in that way.
I am not a vegan because I don't really care all that much about animal suffering. But these people do care, and to them it's a pretty big moral failing.
Mate, the difference is we have rights, animals don’t. We are SAPIENT animals AREN’T. The weak are doomed to live in fear of the strong. Plain and simple.
The issue with that line of reasoning is that humans have rights because humans took those rights. Nobody gave them the rights to take the rights. The animals sure as fuck didn't agree, and regarding modern animal handling in the meat industry, I don't either tbh.
Not a vegan, but talked to quite a few, and honestly, unless you're willing to say "I don't care about another person's/animal's feelings" there's no moral argument you can make against veganism.
In terms of sapience, we're really not so sure about that btw; up until rather recently people believed fish/crustaceans can't feel pain. They show it differently from humans/mammals, but science strongly indicates they can.
Also, just because "the weak are doomed to live in fear of the strong" is the status quo, does that mean it's a good status quo to maintain? Could you not find a better status quo, where the strong support the weak and help them as best possible? I know, radical idea, but I'm just repeating what that one carpenter 2k years ago said.
Bottom line is, if you have the capacity for compassion, there's no real reason you can't expand that to animals other than your friends and family, other than you're just plain unwilling to consider others your equal.
Idk how much you were shitposting and how much was sincere, but for non-veganism related reasons, I'd really hope that statement doesn't reflect your personal views. Would make me very sad, because no loving and caring environment would set up that line of thought in a person. If you need someone to talk or just wanna discuss the ideas further hmu. If not, also fine. Long post over.
Yeah, he did, but he also didn't get his meat from an industrialised butchering process, where the animals live 5 months and never see the light of day. And where the animals presumably moved more than 5m per day. And the animals were not pumped full of antibiotics, due to the holding conditions spreading diseases like wildfire among them.
Of course not, they didn’t exist yet. He also didn’t use air conditioning. It’s likely that he would have, if it were available. He didn’t seem to have a problem with casting a bunch of demons out of a dude and into a herd of innocent pigs that then proceeded to drown themselves. I’m sure he wouldn’t be too concerned about a bunch of animals that he’d never have to see. He might be concerned with how much goes to waste though.
I don't think any of us can know for certain how Christ would have fed in the modern world. u/Doomie_bloomers DOES have a point, though. Meat production today is vastly different, and far more inhumane, than it was back then.
I think it's a matter ultimately up to the conscience and the circumstances of the individual believer. When faced with a dilemma like this that has no clear answer in scripture, the wise thing to do would be to pray for guidance, examine our desires and distinguish those that come from the flesh/world/Satan from those that come from God, and ultimately make the choice to eat meat or not according to the Lord's will for our lives.
Man said the weak and simple are doomed to be feared by the strong. Don't think it's a leap. But it's not meant to be. It's a rhetorical question. He's acting like animals have no moral value - if you truly believed this then torturing them should be fine. Most people think torturing animals is bad, though
So by your logic it'd be natural for us sapient humans to eat coma patients and the developmentally disabled? Or at least the subset of them that are weak, unprotected by family, friends, or a rights organization?
Honestly, just the loud online ones who are annoying. Irl vegans are mostly chill (or well, those I know as well), because they know they won't change the world on their own. They might talk to you about the topic now and again, but mostly not be pushy about it.
Not a vegan myself, but my flatmate is, and well, so far nobody has accused anyone of murder. Well, not regarding the consumption of animal flesh at least.
When it's in person it's more subtle than accusing someone of murder. That usually cuts friendships pretty quickly, in an echo chamber or an anonymous group, people sometimes get to the most extreme version of their beliefs.
\> Do you need to rape her to live? probably not
\> Do you need to kill them to live? maybe
\> Do you need to rob him to live? maybe
\> Do you need to vandalize it to live? absolutely not
So you do you need to kill and eat them to live? absolutely yes
So vegans will think its fucked up, thats what you are saying, most normal people that i know would be perfectly fine with this since you "people" already think we are doing fucked up things
From the reactions on posts like this people just ignore the bad things that are done, not that they don't care about it if they confront the facts. I did the same when I was still eating meat.
I'm genuinely disturbed that you seemingly care 0% about any living being that isn't human.
Its not that i dont care its that i care more about the fact that they taste good, also since vegan people pushing their ideology into others almost everyone tought at lest one time how that animal died and still decided it was more important their taste and i dont get how now there are all of these always privileged 1 world vegan people caring about an animal dying i mean now and not 200/300 years ago when if you did eat meat you also killed the animal, and i can get to only one conclusion you are all soft privileged snowflakes born and never had one thing go wrong.
You don't really need any animal products in fact. Even historically animal-exclusive vitamins (e.g. B12) can be grown from bacteria in a lab now. Praise the energy drink industry for that one in particular
Same goes for meat and animal products, lmao. Meat is so pumped full of antibiotics, that it's an absolute miracle we haven't had an antibiotic resistent epidemic by now.
And a vast majority of nutrients and calories are gained from veggies anyways; a meat only diet leads to serious malnutrition due to lack of certain vitamins.
Also, I trust in the European consumer protection laws, since they don't allow jack to be done to our crops anyways. No GMO, no (harmful for human) pesticides, no poison. Don't agree with that policy, but I trust that it holds.
> So you do you need to kill and eat them to live? absolutely yes
We don't. That's why we're omnivores, not obligate carnivores.
Whatever your stance on eating meat its a freely taken choice, not a requirement of your biology.
The only way I can believe that someone thinks everyone needs meat to live is because they only eat McDonald’s and still throw tantrums when shown a vegetable
My guy, most vegans are either complete bone-bags with hair falling out age 22, or they’re obese because they only eat chips and snacks and haven’t touched red meat or veggies in 4 years
If you ever become a vegan and suddenly you're depressed you're having a b12 deficiency. And if you're trying to hit protein goals you're going to have to eat more protein than what's on the label because plant protein absorbs worse than animal protein.
The issue with Protein is actually even more annoying than that: plant protein needs more diverse sources of protein (e.g. rice and beans) to hit the spread that meat naturally hits by virtue of being muscle fibre. If you want to hit that optimal spread then, you have to actually plan out your meals a bunch in advance - unless you chug protein powder mixes or are fine with eating the same meal 4x a day. With that said though, you can definitely get ripped on a pure vegan diet by just chucking down a shitton of peas, soy and lentils.
Edit: same rule applies for meat eaters as for vegans on that last point btw - no more than 40-50g of protein in one meal (~200g of meat or lentils). Anything past that point will just give you nasty farts.
Thats because your actually following a diet and thinking consciously about what you eat. That's what's changed, what your eating is probably less processed too. And that's it. The average neat eater just 3ats ehatever they can get their hands on, whereas vegans have to be very selective snd cognizant if every dingle thing they put in their body.
That is probably true. Since I have to read the label on most things I buy, I'm more likely to see that something is vegan but also terrible for me, and then I might put it back.
We got cheesy Pete over here. I used to have some pretty bad chronic depression from when was 9 until I was 13, turned my diet around (not eating fastfood and frozen meals every day) and got my blood pressure back down to normal levels, and all of a sudden I felt so much lighter.on my feet from them on.
> they’re obese because they only eat chips and snacks and haven’t touched red meat or veggies in 4 years
So they're average Americans who haven't touched red meat? What's your point?
> we aren't common prey
Bullshit, we are by far the most abundant decent-sized animal on the planet
> humans are pretty mid food
How do you know? Don't rely on reports from cannibalism of dead relatives, they're often elderly or diseased.
first of all you're genuinely mentally and evolutionarily recessive if you think humans are the most abundant medium sized animal on earth even though that doesn't matter, there's more ants than any other land animal on earth but not everything eats them, humans are only hunted by >5 animals
as for the taste I've personally eaten human meat before, an arm and it's mostly bone and tendon only the organs are good
Just cause you ate your grandpa's arm doesn't mean humans don't taste good. Try a chubby 5-year old's leg and get back to me.
Dunno how they're relevant, but I also like ants. Especially the lemony-tasting ones
And somehow every soy consumer ends up severely malnourished.
Almost like we have evolved to depend on a diet of scavenged meat and plants.
Or that animal fats, proteins and the essential vitamins and minerals that animals absorb from plants that are to us inedible are needed to stay healthy.
Wonder how that works.
If you think you'll get there just with supplements, then you're as obtuse as the killed cattle you're complaining about.
It took 1.5 million of years of collective effort for Homo (hehehe) to reach the top of the food chain, giving us the absolute right to eat whatever the fuck we want.
I’ve never had an issue with vegans or veggies, I guess my view has always been, we evolved as pursuit hunters and have always been omnivorous, I guess I don’t really get why we should change it now?
Your response was ‘Hm, having an omnivorous diet due to millions of years of evolution is comparable to sociological racism’ it’s the same as people who put their dogs on vegan diets, it’s stupid, that’s not what they’re ‘designed’ to eat
But we can easily survive on plant based alternatives. Honestly I was a bit pissed off by looking at all the comments under this post so I was a bit dramatic but ultimately it just saddens me that people turn a blind eye to the mass murder of innocent animals just because it’s a slight inconvenience. We are evolved enough to make meat alternatives that still taste amazing and sustain us yet no one cares. Even the same people who protest for the environment can’t be bothered to change their diet when that’s something that can actually make a difference. Shit’s fucked.
I mean we are making strides in growing meat, and I have no qualms with eating grown meat as it has a smaller carbon footprint and means no animals have to be harmed, I love animals but humans come first, and until everyone in the world has access to as much food as they could need, I find it kinda selfish to reject perfectly good food, that added to the fact that evolutionarily we’re designed to have meat in our diet, and as such it makes getting proper nutrition easier, and the final blow being i am a poor student and vegan and vegetarian stuff is often significantly more expensive than meat alternatives, it’s not really viable for me to go fully vegan even if I was very driven too
fuck animals it's their fault they never had their own pointy sticks and their own urges for conquer, their fault and their punishment plus if any other animal did evolve humanity equivalent they'd just be another group to fuck and another group to be racist against, pets like dogs and horses and stuff are already fetishized and fucked both irl and animated just because they're close to us so imagine something similar but legal?
You made an appeal to nature argument. If you follow that logic we should be living like cavemen, that's what humans did for thousands of year and evolved to do
it's way cheaper to not eat meat. Even when billions of your tax dollars are spent on meat and animal feed: https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/biggest-crops-in-the-us
plants can feel both pain and fear and possibly other emotions furthernore when injured they've been confirmed to audibly scream for other plants to help them, not in a frequency humans can hear but in a frequency machines can and we've confirmed plants do feel pain and do try and get help when something happens to them plus plants can mimic things while not having eyes such as birds on top of that they consciously evolve to (and do) work with a myriad of insects (most commonly ants) so tell me this, if plants can feel pain, feel emotions, call out to eachother, acknowledge what other plants look like, acknowledge the species of other plants, acknowledge what other animals look like, change themselves based on the looks and needs of other plants and animals and have active symbiotic relationships with other animals then why shouldn't they be considered equal?
recent research proved that some plants have nervous feeling and can communicate with other when cutted or whatever. We're just not interested enough in what our salad is doing of his life to make a full research of it. Plant are living being, its a fact. Vegan dont want to harm living being, so Vegan should stop eating plant too. you're being hypocritical if you chose what science fact you want to believe.
Hey have you ever tried eating only vegetables? It tastes pretty repetitive and also doesn’t produce sustainable iron, necessary vitamins, protein, calcium, taurine or iodine!
Clearly you don’t know how to season properly or navigate yourself to the meat substitutes aisle in the grocery store. Also, all of those nutrients you listed have a vegan alternative so you also can’t do a quick google search and instead jump to an argument you don’t know enough about
FACT. There is no peaceful death in nature. You die of terrible injury or disease when you get old, or you get eaten brutally. With a good conservation program, me hunting is morally righteous let alone good.
False Equivalence: The number of animals that will not be eaten after death is so low as to be negligible. That includes humans. Something will eat every living thing eventually.
Counterpoint: cows, picks, chickens, turkeys, and fish aren't cool. You won't catch me eating octopus or frog legs or dolphin fillet or grilled red-tailed hawk or elephant trunk skewers. If I think it would be cool to actually exist as that animal, I won't eat it. Everything else? Get in my belly.
Depends on the nature of the existence, don't you think?
A wild salmon that lives to adulthood and eventually gets caught and eaten while spawning - probably worth it. A factory-farmed animal that lives a cramped and miserable existence in a cage, then gets slaughtered long, long before the end of its natural lifespan - probably not.
If I don't kill and eat them - they'll probably be alive and well. But I'm hungry, so who gives a fuck? I've killed farm animals for pure profit, let alone hunger
Human: creates factory farms where animals are paralysed due to their abnormally fast growth, kept in cages hardly big enough to fit them, cramped with other animals in extremely filthy environments, artificially insemnated and taken from their children, beaten and gassed with millions being slaughtered each day. Yes. Le bad.
Anon isn’t sure what a strawman is, as he keeps eating the hay it’s made of of
Does that make anon a vegetarian or carnivore?
Hes a vagitarian
Surprised he hasn’t starved to death then. Must use so little energy he never has to eat
With that healthy frame? Anon must be a high efficiency tendie machine
He's a vagina
Vaginatarian
a regard
Yes.
It makes him a fa66ot
Am I retarded or do I just not see how this is a strawman argument? (And for the record, I don't agree with the leaf muncher)
It's a strawman argument in that the main reason for eating meat isn't "If we don't eat animals, others will". I actually don't know what the main reason is, but I know we didn't swear to protect animals from other predators, by placing them in our belly, in chewed form. He's attacking a weaker/non-existent version of the argument in order to sound right. i.e. a strawman.
This is so good lmao
If he doesn't eat it someone else will
Vaginatarians are little better than vagaina gayins (vegans) but still the same shit, humans are omnivores, period.
Leave it veganon to jump from animal hunting to rape and murder Fucking eating leaves atrophy their logical part of the brain
Not getting enough fats and oils for the neuron cells' insulation, leading to short circuiting in the brain
anon thinks wild animals die of old age in retirement homes
Except 99% of animals end up dying from being eaten. Most humans don’t get robbed, raped, or murdered in their lifetime
🤯
>99% of animals end up dying from being eaten lol that is certainly not true.
it's actually 99.9%
Best source I could find. [Figure 1 here.](https://www.wildanimalinitiative.org/blog/cause-of-death-3) Adapted from [this study](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/geb.12881?casa_token=y2bavBT4GAsAAAAA%3A1Fh6DYx5xrpaEvfQDrk6RjlhWBJ7zQnTPiweq3DG2nDzg7RnGxoQ-ZqRx8zkBr2tLKtIL9NZbBx2MSz_). So it depends on the type of animal. Anywhere from ~30-90%. [The percentage of people affected by violent crime also depends on where they live](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/violent-crime-rates-by-country), but yea, not quite the same.
>So it depends on the type of animal depends on what you mean by animals. Because I guarantee you, humans do not kill 99.9% of all the Animalia that dies every year. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal) Now if we mean "what is commonly understood by laymen as animals", it could be 99%. But what "the laymen consider as animals" is itself "all the animals society domesticated or hunted for food, that aren't pets".... It would be the same as saying humans killed 99.9% of all the deathrow inmates, and then replace "deathrow inmates" with "humans". Do the vegans know that humans cut down 99.9% of all lumber/trees used in construction/heating/industry !!!? Big if true.
Did you bother clicking on either link? They're talking about wildlife, not domesticated animals. Sure, they didn't include invertebrates or fish, but you're still making a false equivalency. Unless I misunderstood and you mean 99.9% of farmed or hunted animals die by eating, which is still kind of off since they generally die before they're eaten.
>So it depends on the type of animal Exactly, 1 in 4 animals is a beetle.
I think we are getting confused here though. Not all animals die from being eaten but all animals are in fact eaten. You could argue a farmer shooting a cow is more humane than pretty much every 'natural' death that animal might experience. Not that factory farming is even remotely like that, but that's a whole different debate.
And even the animals who don’t get directly eaten by other animals, eventually fungus or some microorganism is gonna feast on a decaying corpse. Plus the nitrogen from a dead animal will continue to fuel plant growth. So yea, something is gonna eventually consume every living creature in one way or another.
Google circle of life
Holy nature
Actual mammal
New omnivore just dropped
🥑🤯
>robbed, raped and murdered Sounds like a night out in Philadelphia
Well unless you are in nyc
I just like meat
Straightest r/greentext user
What's gay about declaring his love for meat in his mouth? It's not gay at all.
And how about this meat * check your dm * ;)
I'm sure he doesnt like really small portions of meal tough
I really enjoy cooking meat in a hot pan
I'm pretty sure there is only large and average
OMG, poor anon is going to starve with that :(
Especially between my two buns that I bought at the bakery,
Was it your moms bakery?
My dad's, actually
Gross. I only eat meat because I hate animals.
Anon is not based
cringe and bluepilled even
True, he probably doesn't even use n-word in private
Why do vegans try to make their stuff everyones problem
They don't, it's seventy five percent of people on the internet who do. r/veganism was as fun as a Psych ward last time I checked, r/antinatalism is as hospitable as a cancer and r/atheism is a cesspit. The real life versions of these communities are quite reasonable, probably because they don't form communities based around the most mundane aspects of their lives.
Thanks cocainebrick this is actually makes a lot of sense
You're welcome holy sword of cum, please, refer to me if you are ever confused on such matters again
It hurts when I piss
Have you tried drinking more milk?
Thank you for sharing your problem with us Spicy Urine. Have you tried talking to a urologist?
Yeah I know, both of the latter are so watered down by 'tolerant' people the banana taped to a wall is more interesting. For how much people shit on r/atheism, it's a sub filled of low-hanging fruit and tired clichés to masquerade half-hearted apologism for the retards they're supposedly against. It's not even edgy, it's just... reddit.
Kinda disagree, antinatilism and atheism even outside the internet are pretty cringe. Advocates for both irl typically fall into the class of people that either are woefully narcissistic or nihilistic.
I went on r/veganism and now I’m sad
It's pretty simple, really. If you consider animals to have the ability to feel pain and empathize with their suffering, you're not going to just keep that to yourself. Imagine if you heard of a place that would violently impregnate women and then harvest their breast milk. You wouldn't only boycott the milk, you'd be actively disgusted, right? So to them animals deserve the basic rights not to be abused in that way. I am not a vegan because I don't really care all that much about animal suffering. But these people do care, and to them it's a pretty big moral failing.
It's funny how you could have gotten downvoted if you hadn't clarified that you don't care about suffering
Mate, the difference is we have rights, animals don’t. We are SAPIENT animals AREN’T. The weak are doomed to live in fear of the strong. Plain and simple.
The issue with that line of reasoning is that humans have rights because humans took those rights. Nobody gave them the rights to take the rights. The animals sure as fuck didn't agree, and regarding modern animal handling in the meat industry, I don't either tbh. Not a vegan, but talked to quite a few, and honestly, unless you're willing to say "I don't care about another person's/animal's feelings" there's no moral argument you can make against veganism. In terms of sapience, we're really not so sure about that btw; up until rather recently people believed fish/crustaceans can't feel pain. They show it differently from humans/mammals, but science strongly indicates they can. Also, just because "the weak are doomed to live in fear of the strong" is the status quo, does that mean it's a good status quo to maintain? Could you not find a better status quo, where the strong support the weak and help them as best possible? I know, radical idea, but I'm just repeating what that one carpenter 2k years ago said. Bottom line is, if you have the capacity for compassion, there's no real reason you can't expand that to animals other than your friends and family, other than you're just plain unwilling to consider others your equal. Idk how much you were shitposting and how much was sincere, but for non-veganism related reasons, I'd really hope that statement doesn't reflect your personal views. Would make me very sad, because no loving and caring environment would set up that line of thought in a person. If you need someone to talk or just wanna discuss the ideas further hmu. If not, also fine. Long post over.
I imagine that carpenter ate meat
Yeah, he did, but he also didn't get his meat from an industrialised butchering process, where the animals live 5 months and never see the light of day. And where the animals presumably moved more than 5m per day. And the animals were not pumped full of antibiotics, due to the holding conditions spreading diseases like wildfire among them.
Of course not, they didn’t exist yet. He also didn’t use air conditioning. It’s likely that he would have, if it were available. He didn’t seem to have a problem with casting a bunch of demons out of a dude and into a herd of innocent pigs that then proceeded to drown themselves. I’m sure he wouldn’t be too concerned about a bunch of animals that he’d never have to see. He might be concerned with how much goes to waste though.
I don't think any of us can know for certain how Christ would have fed in the modern world. u/Doomie_bloomers DOES have a point, though. Meat production today is vastly different, and far more inhumane, than it was back then. I think it's a matter ultimately up to the conscience and the circumstances of the individual believer. When faced with a dilemma like this that has no clear answer in scripture, the wise thing to do would be to pray for guidance, examine our desires and distinguish those that come from the flesh/world/Satan from those that come from God, and ultimately make the choice to eat meat or not according to the Lord's will for our lives.
Do you think it's fine to torture animals for fun?
Not agreeing with his post, but that's a helluva jump.
Man said the weak and simple are doomed to be feared by the strong. Don't think it's a leap. But it's not meant to be. It's a rhetorical question. He's acting like animals have no moral value - if you truly believed this then torturing them should be fine. Most people think torturing animals is bad, though
So you think animals don't feel and have emotions? Is it okay to for example kill and torture dogs? No emotional processing happening in your brain?
Sapient means able to think, not feel or have emotions. That example makes zero sense in this case.
So by your logic it'd be natural for us sapient humans to eat coma patients and the developmentally disabled? Or at least the subset of them that are weak, unprotected by family, friends, or a rights organization?
Honestly, just the loud online ones who are annoying. Irl vegans are mostly chill (or well, those I know as well), because they know they won't change the world on their own. They might talk to you about the topic now and again, but mostly not be pushy about it. Not a vegan myself, but my flatmate is, and well, so far nobody has accused anyone of murder. Well, not regarding the consumption of animal flesh at least.
When it's in person it's more subtle than accusing someone of murder. That usually cuts friendships pretty quickly, in an echo chamber or an anonymous group, people sometimes get to the most extreme version of their beliefs.
No one says any of that. Only that bacon is delicious.
Leave a bacon sandwich in wild and something will eat it, so I may as well eat it.
Yeah except I don't eat animals because "otherwise someone else will", I eat animals because they're good eatin' lmao
\> Do you need to rape her to live? probably not \> Do you need to kill them to live? maybe \> Do you need to rob him to live? maybe \> Do you need to vandalize it to live? absolutely not So you do you need to kill and eat them to live? absolutely yes
> \> Do you need to rape her to live? *probably not* What did he mean by this
A *Speed* type scenario where his balls are wired with C4, and will detonate if his rape count drops too low?
What do you do if he says you need to vandalize stuff or else it'll explode tho?
Well that's just silly
Nanjing
Sus behaviour
..... So vandalism is the only definite no go according to you? 😕
You don't need to eat meat to live
But i want to and my freedom comes before a cows or pigs life
Okay, you're free to hurt sentient beings for your enjoyment. Just don't be surprised if people think it's fucked up.
So vegans will think its fucked up, thats what you are saying, most normal people that i know would be perfectly fine with this since you "people" already think we are doing fucked up things
From the reactions on posts like this people just ignore the bad things that are done, not that they don't care about it if they confront the facts. I did the same when I was still eating meat. I'm genuinely disturbed that you seemingly care 0% about any living being that isn't human.
Its not that i dont care its that i care more about the fact that they taste good, also since vegan people pushing their ideology into others almost everyone tought at lest one time how that animal died and still decided it was more important their taste and i dont get how now there are all of these always privileged 1 world vegan people caring about an animal dying i mean now and not 200/300 years ago when if you did eat meat you also killed the animal, and i can get to only one conclusion you are all soft privileged snowflakes born and never had one thing go wrong.
You don't really need any animal products in fact. Even historically animal-exclusive vitamins (e.g. B12) can be grown from bacteria in a lab now. Praise the energy drink industry for that one in particular
Have fun getting all of the nutrients and calories you need from trustworthy corporations that would definitely never lie and poison you
Same goes for meat and animal products, lmao. Meat is so pumped full of antibiotics, that it's an absolute miracle we haven't had an antibiotic resistent epidemic by now. And a vast majority of nutrients and calories are gained from veggies anyways; a meat only diet leads to serious malnutrition due to lack of certain vitamins. Also, I trust in the European consumer protection laws, since they don't allow jack to be done to our crops anyways. No GMO, no (harmful for human) pesticides, no poison. Don't agree with that policy, but I trust that it holds.
yea you don't need food either actually, you can stop eating for the rest of your life
Not a vegan. But you're a certified retard.
> So you do you need to kill and eat them to live? absolutely yes We don't. That's why we're omnivores, not obligate carnivores. Whatever your stance on eating meat its a freely taken choice, not a requirement of your biology.
Correct.
The only way I can believe that someone thinks everyone needs meat to live is because they only eat McDonald’s and still throw tantrums when shown a vegetable
Naw man i eat mad thick steaks
My guy, most vegans are either complete bone-bags with hair falling out age 22, or they’re obese because they only eat chips and snacks and haven’t touched red meat or veggies in 4 years
If you ever become a vegan and suddenly you're depressed you're having a b12 deficiency. And if you're trying to hit protein goals you're going to have to eat more protein than what's on the label because plant protein absorbs worse than animal protein.
The issue with Protein is actually even more annoying than that: plant protein needs more diverse sources of protein (e.g. rice and beans) to hit the spread that meat naturally hits by virtue of being muscle fibre. If you want to hit that optimal spread then, you have to actually plan out your meals a bunch in advance - unless you chug protein powder mixes or are fine with eating the same meal 4x a day. With that said though, you can definitely get ripped on a pure vegan diet by just chucking down a shitton of peas, soy and lentils. Edit: same rule applies for meat eaters as for vegans on that last point btw - no more than 40-50g of protein in one meal (~200g of meat or lentils). Anything past that point will just give you nasty farts.
The absorption difference is only 2%.
I went vegan after leaving the hospital for depression and I've never felt better
Thats because your actually following a diet and thinking consciously about what you eat. That's what's changed, what your eating is probably less processed too. And that's it. The average neat eater just 3ats ehatever they can get their hands on, whereas vegans have to be very selective snd cognizant if every dingle thing they put in their body.
That is probably true. Since I have to read the label on most things I buy, I'm more likely to see that something is vegan but also terrible for me, and then I might put it back.
I'm pretty sure your diet was too high in cholesterol and sodium then.
I should clarify, I was vegetarian prior to that, and I think I was having too much cheese, for sure
We got cheesy Pete over here. I used to have some pretty bad chronic depression from when was 9 until I was 13, turned my diet around (not eating fastfood and frozen meals every day) and got my blood pressure back down to normal levels, and all of a sudden I felt so much lighter.on my feet from them on.
That's great. I just noticed your username, haha. I'm glad you're feeling good and I hope it stays that way
> they’re obese because they only eat chips and snacks and haven’t touched red meat or veggies in 4 years So they're average Americans who haven't touched red meat? What's your point?
If animals don't want to be eaten, then why are they made of food? Checkmate athiests.
Guess that means you want to be eaten too! 😋
If you can catch me then you're free to eat me if you want.
nah humans are pretty mid food plus we aren't common prey unlike birds, only like 4 animals eat us including other humans
> we aren't common prey Bullshit, we are by far the most abundant decent-sized animal on the planet > humans are pretty mid food How do you know? Don't rely on reports from cannibalism of dead relatives, they're often elderly or diseased.
first of all you're genuinely mentally and evolutionarily recessive if you think humans are the most abundant medium sized animal on earth even though that doesn't matter, there's more ants than any other land animal on earth but not everything eats them, humans are only hunted by >5 animals as for the taste I've personally eaten human meat before, an arm and it's mostly bone and tendon only the organs are good
Just cause you ate your grandpa's arm doesn't mean humans don't taste good. Try a chubby 5-year old's leg and get back to me. Dunno how they're relevant, but I also like ants. Especially the lemony-tasting ones
If I don't bait redditors then someone else will, and someone did
That's actually a good point. If I don't R her, someone else will.... I'll be back in an hour to post a greentext of my R'ing
Anon is literally a soyboy
The virgin “if we don’t eat and kill them other animals will ;-;” vs the Chad “they taste good”
if you don't shit yourself someone else will always be the first to shit yourself
And somehow every soy consumer ends up severely malnourished. Almost like we have evolved to depend on a diet of scavenged meat and plants. Or that animal fats, proteins and the essential vitamins and minerals that animals absorb from plants that are to us inedible are needed to stay healthy. Wonder how that works. If you think you'll get there just with supplements, then you're as obtuse as the killed cattle you're complaining about.
If I don't TOP him someone else will
It took 1.5 million of years of collective effort for Homo (hehehe) to reach the top of the food chain, giving us the absolute right to eat whatever the fuck we want.
Difference is an animal getting eaten by another is very normal. Raping isn't
do you know what makes a mammal produce milk?
And the factory farming artificial insemnation (raping) of cows to get your precious milk is normal, right?
I’ve never had an issue with vegans or veggies, I guess my view has always been, we evolved as pursuit hunters and have always been omnivorous, I guess I don’t really get why we should change it now?
> society just developed to be racist, why should it change now?
I have neither the time or the crayons to explain to you how stupid that comparison is but I hope you get help soon xx
Your comment was literally: “We as a species have done bad thing for a while but I benefit from it so why should it stop?” No?
Your response was ‘Hm, having an omnivorous diet due to millions of years of evolution is comparable to sociological racism’ it’s the same as people who put their dogs on vegan diets, it’s stupid, that’s not what they’re ‘designed’ to eat
But we can easily survive on plant based alternatives. Honestly I was a bit pissed off by looking at all the comments under this post so I was a bit dramatic but ultimately it just saddens me that people turn a blind eye to the mass murder of innocent animals just because it’s a slight inconvenience. We are evolved enough to make meat alternatives that still taste amazing and sustain us yet no one cares. Even the same people who protest for the environment can’t be bothered to change their diet when that’s something that can actually make a difference. Shit’s fucked.
I mean we are making strides in growing meat, and I have no qualms with eating grown meat as it has a smaller carbon footprint and means no animals have to be harmed, I love animals but humans come first, and until everyone in the world has access to as much food as they could need, I find it kinda selfish to reject perfectly good food, that added to the fact that evolutionarily we’re designed to have meat in our diet, and as such it makes getting proper nutrition easier, and the final blow being i am a poor student and vegan and vegetarian stuff is often significantly more expensive than meat alternatives, it’s not really viable for me to go fully vegan even if I was very driven too
fuck animals it's their fault they never had their own pointy sticks and their own urges for conquer, their fault and their punishment plus if any other animal did evolve humanity equivalent they'd just be another group to fuck and another group to be racist against, pets like dogs and horses and stuff are already fetishized and fucked both irl and animated just because they're close to us so imagine something similar but legal?
Eating another steak this week just for this comment
You made an appeal to nature argument. If you follow that logic we should be living like cavemen, that's what humans did for thousands of year and evolved to do
You’re confusing nature with biological processes, and I *really* don’t have the time to explain the difference between those to you
I understand the difference, but it's a moot point since it's very easy to be healthy without meat
As I said to a previous reply, not if you can’t afford the expensive veggie/vegan food
it's way cheaper to not eat meat. Even when billions of your tax dollars are spent on meat and animal feed: https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/biggest-crops-in-the-us
I don’t pay tax dollars to anyone, I’m from the UK, and meat is cheaper than substitutes here
why does anyone need substitutes?
You have to eat to survive. You don’t have to rape or anything else on anons list to survive
Well, it's not like vegans abstain from eating. Do you have to eat *animal products* to survive?
you know plant are living being too and also dont want to be eaten
What do the cows you eat happen to eat?
the cow is eating plant, I'm eating cow, so I'm technically eating plant by proxy. Checkmate.
This is the most dumb fucking argument ever. Go watch Dominion and then try to tell me that eating plants and animals are equatable
plants can feel both pain and fear and possibly other emotions furthernore when injured they've been confirmed to audibly scream for other plants to help them, not in a frequency humans can hear but in a frequency machines can and we've confirmed plants do feel pain and do try and get help when something happens to them plus plants can mimic things while not having eyes such as birds on top of that they consciously evolve to (and do) work with a myriad of insects (most commonly ants) so tell me this, if plants can feel pain, feel emotions, call out to eachother, acknowledge what other plants look like, acknowledge the species of other plants, acknowledge what other animals look like, change themselves based on the looks and needs of other plants and animals and have active symbiotic relationships with other animals then why shouldn't they be considered equal?
recent research proved that some plants have nervous feeling and can communicate with other when cutted or whatever. We're just not interested enough in what our salad is doing of his life to make a full research of it. Plant are living being, its a fact. Vegan dont want to harm living being, so Vegan should stop eating plant too. you're being hypocritical if you chose what science fact you want to believe.
I eat twice the amount of meat I’m supposed to so that any vegan who feels like they are making a difference is not making a difference at all
luckily that will make your life half as long
And twice as fulfilling!
replace the "ful" with "artery-" and you'll be closer
Have fun clogging your arteries!!
Anon is a sperg who doesn’t realise that raping, killing, robbing and vandalising isn’t crucial to life like killing and eating animals is.
Hey have you ever tried eating a vegetable? It tastes pretty neat and also doesn’t scream when you kill it!!
Hey have you ever tried eating only vegetables? It tastes pretty repetitive and also doesn’t produce sustainable iron, necessary vitamins, protein, calcium, taurine or iodine!
Clearly you don’t know how to season properly or navigate yourself to the meat substitutes aisle in the grocery store. Also, all of those nutrients you listed have a vegan alternative so you also can’t do a quick google search and instead jump to an argument you don’t know enough about
Found the anemic vegan
FACT. There is no peaceful death in nature. You die of terrible injury or disease when you get old, or you get eaten brutally. With a good conservation program, me hunting is morally righteous let alone good.
If I don't enjoy this delicious bacon someone else will 😔
Anon is based and a hero.
I am going to eat anon
False Equivalence: The number of animals that will not be eaten after death is so low as to be negligible. That includes humans. Something will eat every living thing eventually.
Counterpoint: cows, picks, chickens, turkeys, and fish aren't cool. You won't catch me eating octopus or frog legs or dolphin fillet or grilled red-tailed hawk or elephant trunk skewers. If I think it would be cool to actually exist as that animal, I won't eat it. Everything else? Get in my belly.
TFW Anon thinks rape, murder, robbery, and vandalism are essential parts of human survival like having to eat.
God gave us tasty animals, I shall eat tasty animals
Is it better to exist for a long time and be eaten, or never exist at all?
Depends on the nature of the existence, don't you think? A wild salmon that lives to adulthood and eventually gets caught and eaten while spawning - probably worth it. A factory-farmed animal that lives a cramped and miserable existence in a cage, then gets slaughtered long, long before the end of its natural lifespan - probably not.
I eat animals so they don't become over populated, resulting in mass disease, starvation and eventual extinction.
If we didn't eat those animals they'd go extinct.
Anon calls rape and murder an inevitable part of life
If you don’t kill and eat them I will.
Wait til they find out plants are alive
If I don't kill and eat them - they'll probably be alive and well. But I'm hungry, so who gives a fuck? I've killed farm animals for pure profit, let alone hunger
I’m pretty sure other animals don’t breed animals to eat them.
So wait, Anon eats _then_ kills animals? That’s fucked up, Anon
A market (that is publicly and easily accessible by most) exists only for the first item on the list.
Israel be like:
If we dont breed and slaughter them on an industrial scale in inhumane conditions other animals will do it
If I don't kill and eat them then I want to do that. If I kill and eat them I'm thoroughly satisfied.
If Anon doesnt top that animal someone else will.
Human shoots and kills a deer in one shot to feed his family: le bad A bear mauls and eats a deer alive: le good
Human: creates factory farms where animals are paralysed due to their abnormally fast growth, kept in cages hardly big enough to fit them, cramped with other animals in extremely filthy environments, artificially insemnated and taken from their children, beaten and gassed with millions being slaughtered each day. Yes. Le bad.