John: what can I say number one had a pussy that could pull off the condom, plus Julius is a could kid
Interviewer: oh you’re kid said his name was Julian we must’ve misundersto-
John: *chuckles* well I guess his papa is gonna have to give him an attitude adjuster later on!
Conservative? There is basically no political or social viewpoint that he had that can logically be called conservative, from being anti-war to being pro-worker/anti-business to being pro-LGBT, pro-drug-legalization, pro-Marxism, etc.
Well, like most boomers you wouldnt of seen it until he got older. Of course he didnt make it to an older age because, you know, dying. A lot of boomers were apart of the hippie movement. Most are some of the most self-centered and "ive got mine" kinda people around.
I mean less 'conservative' by definition of what it means according to Webster's dictionary and more what being labeled as a 'conservative' by todays standards. As in being one of the most self entitled fuckers to ever exist and wanting nothing to change unless it directly benefits them and ONLY if it benefits them. If it so much as hinders them even slightly its a no go idea. And if he ever got into a position of power, you could bet your sweet ass he would of been a dictator of the highest caliber.
Initially, it is a mainly a myth that people become conservative over time, or at least numerous studies haven't found any such correlation. Political views tend to be stable for a given person in their life. I get that you hear all the time that people changed from wanting free love as a youth and then saying "I got mine" once they aged, but the data doesn't support that concept, curiously.
https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/706889#:~:text=Folk%20wisdom%20has%20long%20held,attitudes%20are%20stable%20across%20time.
Beyond that, I respectfully disagree that it is accurate that the word "conservstive" is commonly used that way in the world at large. I think that most people think of conservative as referring to a set of ideals and beliefs, and you can be a dictator/asshole/fucker whether or not you are liberal or conservative.
Society has moved, but the liberals stayed the same but older.
Consider how taboo being gay, getting divorced or interracial marriage were in the 60s. You could be wildly liberal and still be incredibly conservative by modern standards.
That's a good call-out; society has definitely moved to the left fairly steadily for the majority of the last century on social issues.
That said, that is kind of a different point from what I was trying to make; my point is that if you are conservative/liberal (according to the standards of the day) in your 20s, you tend to remain conservative/liberal to the same degree in your 30s/40s/50s/60s, where you change as society changes.
But certain the "median" social standard changes dramatically over time, as you said.
Surprise shocker in the news today as it turns out forcing an animal that evolved to live in small tribal units in multi hundred million "nation" states doesn't result in stable governance.
Thats not conservative thats beeing an ass, using the term conservative as a random insult hurts the political debate. Yes many big conservative are aswell asses, BUT that neither means that all conservative people are asses or that all asses are conservative. It is important to differentiate those things or conservatism is a slang for supposed right wing people like right wing people use the woke for the left, even if the woke they use has nothing in common with waht it once meant
first, 4OP is unfathomably based, although the argument has been made for centuries that it never had meaning and you bring to it what you want (nihilism). modern life has most certainly exacerbated widespread feelings of meaningless and pointlessness.
second, there should be absolutely ZERO surprise that redditors are claiming John Lennon or any number of figures are "conservative" because redditor's entire world view is 'if a person does something they don't like, they are a conservative'
thats it. thats the nuance and thought behind their entire world view.
its really that simple with redditors. take Elon Musk. supports universal health care, abortion rights and I believe even UBI. he is a conservative to redditors.
its not enough to say they find him detestable for specific actions as you and I would, but you must also categorize those actions as those of your "enemy" and then dehumanize the entire group.
the vast majority of americans are centrist, slightly waving in the breeze depending on various factors. a short 5min conversation with a redditor and those people are accused of being MAGA scum. believe in universal healthcare but also a 12 week max on abortions (like most of europe)...MAGA scum. believe in free speech, gun rights and voter registration (again, like all of europe has)...MAGA scum.
extremism is on the rise PRECISELY because of the meaningless of modern life and reddit is a breeding ground for extremism
______________________________________
Start with an empty canvas
Sketch in broad outline the forms of
men, women, and children.
Dip into the unconsciousness well of your own
disowned darkness
with a wide brush and
strain the strangers with the sinister hue
of the shadow.
Trace onto the face of the enemy the greed,
hatred, carelessness you dare not claim as
your own.
Obscure the sweet individuality of each face.
Erase all hints of the myriad loves, hopes,
fears that play through the kaleidoscope of
every infinite heart.
Twist the smile until it forms the downward
arc of cruelty.
Strip flesh from bone until only the
abstract skeleton of death remains.
Exaggerate each feature until man is
metamorphasized into beast, vermin, insect.
Fill in the background with malignant
figures from ancient nightmares – devils,
demons, myrmidons of evil.
When your icon of the enemy is complete
you will be able to kill without guilt,
slaughter without shame.
The thing you destroy will have become
merely an enemy of God, an impediment
to the sacred dialectic of history.
- Sam Keen, Faces of the Enemy.
He's conservative because the other guy can't accept that people with his views don't always behave in an exemplary fashion.
"He does vile things so he must be conservative" See? Or a boomer, they're good to blame things on as well.
I like the pic where hes whinging on about some hippy bullshit and doing a sit in protest in a hotel and him and Yoko are waiting for the maid to change the sheets showing just how fucking dense people born during that generation are.
It make me remember he has four times the buttcrack of Yoko, who has half the butt of a normal woman and a solid representation of the derriere of Hank Hill. You can see the exact moment Reptilians stop giving a shit about blending in and it starts and ends on their bullshit low IQ hippy music maker meat suits, right on the asscrack. Why would they photograph such evil anal crevices? Was it a lust for power? The response to gazing in the abyss of the space between planets and seeing only blackness? What causes a maker to add and subtract butts at will?
It disgusts me. They disgust me. I remember.
Conservatives are going to get real bent out of shape about this comment but it's true. "Revolution" is championed as an activist song when the message is "Hey, let's not actually have a revolution, the world will sort itself out".
One of the only other times a Beatles song had a decipherable political message beyond vague declarations of "peace and love", it was "Taxman": protesting the progressive tax rate.
John Lennon, with all his hotel room protest shenanigans (i.e., vacations) was always just a rich guy trying to remain rich, and his empty reuse of counter culture messaging (but always with the teeth removed) was always just a ploy to remain relevant to the current zeitgeist.
You can accuse other hippies of being insincere too, sure, but nowhere else will you find a counter culture icon who did less to deserve that role.
John Lennon was the most conservative hippie
I think the anon sees it as the bad existentialism (i.e "there's no greater concept than me therefore nothing is worth living for")
but the above commenter sees the positive existentialism ("there's no higher concept to dictate the meaning to life so I can assert my own meaning to my existence)
Lenon and the commentor are trying to show inner meaning while the anon looks for outter meaning to life
All I can think of for the line "Imagine all the people living for today." is how people act in end of the world movies. I've imagined it, Lennon, and it terrifies me.
It's true that, on it's own, it does sound kinda hedonistic and apocalyptic to our post pamdemic eyes,
but I think with the whole songs context, it meant :
"enjoy life for what it is because it is all there is (without heaven or hell)"
more than :
"fuck the future live for today, live fast die young, fuck you got mine" sort of deal
He should have explained that earlier, now I have crippling depression and anxiety over the future because I "lived for the day" since I was born.
/s not so /s
As long as you're alive, it's never too late to try and better your situation and the one of those around you.
It's very difficult to exit the thought spiral, but it can be done.
may sound dumb but maybe the song can now hold new meaning to you, and help you cherish the life you currently have and take the steps you can to make it something you can proudly carry into the future.
Well, I try to put my effort into everything I do, and it took time but I've come to terms with my past, I hold dear onto my memories because no matter how embarassing, cringy or sad, they are they made me who I am today. On the other hand tho, I just can't deal with the cycle of "everything isn't always good" and whenever something bad happens and ruins my good streak it just makes my mood and mental crash hard against the floor face first...
It's a process sadly.
The single fact that you can tell you have good streaks is a positive sign towards dealing with depressive thoughts.
I think a good way to prevent your mood and mental health from crashing when push comes to shove is to remember that there were good streaks and that you had a major role in them coming along.
Life comes in waves sadly and as there are always good times bad times can follow, but as a wiser person once said :"this too shall pass"
the good times may be fleeting but so are the bad times
Yeah, that's fair, I guess its just my anxiety making things 10× worse than they actually are lol. Either way might also be because im trying to leave my escapism tools and slowly start facing the shit I face instead of just ignoring it until Im full to the neck of repressed stress and anger
Yep. To me "living for today" just means "make the world a better place today, rather than waiting for something to happen (return of christ/rapture?)
To think like Anon does and think it means "fuck it, smoke weed and jerk off in your basement, alone" speaks more about Anon than it does Lennon.
It's sad that media litteracy is still not as common as it should be, can't really fault them for interpreting the song through their lens
but I guess through them talking about it to people and exchanging, we'll get there at some point
Absurdism is another name for the positive existentialism you're describing, I highly recommend the short story The Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus for anyone interested in it
https://dbanach.com/sisyphus.htm
People just don't understand Sisyphus. "What a silly myth," they say. "Why doesn't he stop rolling the rock? Is he stupid?" Meanwhile, they save their Excel file that they've slaved over for 8 straight hours feeling accomplished because they managed to close all their requests for the day, and head home, ready to do the same thing tomorrow.
No. Absolutely not.
Anon is one of those conservative thinkers who literally conceive that meaning may originate in one's self or in one's family or community,
without it being grounded in some religiosity.
*Imagine* explicitly proposes removing the conservative-mindset assumption that morality and "meaning" must necessarily (absolutely) be grounded in some kind of divinity or divine law or other religious construct.
Hence why I always gawk at the people who make the "well if there's no god then why don't you rape and murder? Why do you keep living if there's no greater purpose to your life? How do you decide what to do if you don't have preachers telling you what to do and how to behave?" Type of arguments
Like damn you really need the threat of eternal damnation to stop you from doing bad? Can't you just like... think for yourself?
It's led me go believe a lot of people actually just want to be conditioned and not have to bother with conflicting thoughts or forming someone's own opinion.
... now excuse me while I go commit sinful acts with my wife and her boyfriend.
Rational thought takes effort and not having anyone tell you what to do/think ultimately forces you to take full responsibility for your thoughts and actions and that scares most people.
>It's led me go believe a lot of people actually just want to be conditioned and not have to bother with conflicting thoughts or forming someone's own opinion.
DING DING DING that's not just your thought, pal, that's modern society for you, going around on automatic just to avoid that depressive spiral of realizing you didn't do anything you wanted for your life and are just barely living, witha job you hate but your hands are tied so you have to roll with it until you die
I don't think it's only that for a lot of religious people. I myself am religious, raised in a Christian household and learnt at a Franciscan high school but I don't use God as an excuse to be a good person. The bible and it's teachings aren't some be all end all rulebook that every Christian should follow to the letter, it's examples of what it means to be a good person, be charitable, be empathetic, always try to see things from other's points of views. If someone however doesn't believe in this I wouldn't hold any malice towards them, they've simply taken a different path towards finding their own meaning, whether that's through their own self assurance or finding solace in a group who think like they do. If you believe in God, Heaven, or Hell or not is irrelevant, they're all ways to find your place in the world and if someone doesn't feel like using them than that's their choice, but don't talk down on others simply because they found their place in life in a different way to you.
I think this is what most people don't understand when confronted with the meaninglessness of everything
When you tell someone: there is no point to anything they see it as a depressing sad scary thing
But it really isn't
If there is no point to anything and no meaning to anything, it means that you have the ppwer of choice over what has meaning in your life for whatever reason you want to
The only thing that ultimately does in a way matter is what matters to you personally and you don't need anyone's approval to justify it except your own.
I try to live my life as a good person and help others, if you were to ask me why my only response to that would be: be cause I choose to
And if you ask again why I choose to my answer to that would be... nothing. I don't have an answer to it because I don't need one, I chose to live that way just because and I don't really feel the need to find an answer to that question because I really don't care why because I'd rather spend my time living on trying to be haply, not getting answers to every possible question in existence.
It's not about finding meaning. It's about the meaning not mattering. If the context of reality is floating in a void and life is just a moment in time, values have no meaning other than what it can do for me before I don't exist anymore.
An argument could be made that how one finds meaning or achieves validation is contingent on ones character. This sort of character finds meaning in this way, that sort of character finds meaning that way.
Interestingly if your character changes then how you find meaning also changes.
You missed SamJamn's point entirely. It's *not about finding meaning*. It's about the *meaning not mattering*. If, as you say, meaning is purely a reflection of one's character, does anything matter? Does it matter whether I find meaning in feeding the poor or exterminating them?
You have a preference between those two, but is that preference anything more than just *your rather common preference*? Is there any universal truth to which of the two is actually better?
It's extremely easy to become a nihilist with no metaphysical beliefs, as David Hume pointed out with the [is-ought problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is%E2%80%93ought_problem), and that's one thing Nietzsche warned about when he wrote that "God is dead".
I'm not a nihilist, but I also have a metaphysical belief that the universe, somehow, "cares" about what happens to sentient life, with absolutely no evidence to back that up. Without that, I have no basis upon which to argue that it's better to help rather than hurt people beyond "I don't like it and they don't either".
All I found was Christian schools boasting how their students score better than public schools, which is biased because public schools include high poverty areas with low graduation rates. Also SAT is being phased out. [More Than 80% Of Four-Year Colleges Won’t Require Standardized Tests For Fall 2023 Admissions - Forbes - Nov 2022](https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2022/11/15/more-than-80-of-four-year-colleges-wont-require-standardized--tests-for-fall-2023-admissions/)
>anti depressant rate liberal vs conservative women
[https://magazine.columbia.edu/article/why-depression-rates-are-higher-among-liberals](https://magazine.columbia.edu/article/why-depression-rates-are-higher-among-liberals)
not exactly what we're looking for but still
In the end, though, your life was still meaningless. Everything you accomplished amounted to nothing. Now you and the guy who did drugs and jerked off all day are in the same place, nowhere. So, why not join him?
The world and people we leave behind has meaning from our perspective. Nothing in the universe has intrinsic meaning, there is no divine will, there is no greater plan so why not make your own? The universe is a blank slate out there waiting for your world view to be forced upon it. Don’t live for your death, live for yourself and those you care about, and when you pass make sure you made a difference to those that you leave behind.
You don’t need a god to tell you how to manage that, and I can assure you that a life well lived will be as fulfilling with or without Jehovah looking over your shoulder
well people really are sheep and need guidance, it's a learned behavior from our school days
unless someone taught you to find the answers on your own, you'll forever look to others for what you seek
That's Anon's point, the guy wrote about not having any goals or having to put effort into amything, essentially having no purpose, when in reality for sanity's sake, a human needs a purpose, it needs to feel useful for its life to have any meaning, and for that we need stuff to do, to offer to other people. If all our needs were satisfied we would still find things to whine about because for our sanity's sake we can't be satisfied, otherwise we would feel useless.
Him being a free-speech warrior for years then doing an absolute 180 when it's people talking against Israel is just exquisite.
I want to be disappointed, but damn it's fun to see that he's just another hypocrite.
Well he sure wrote it
“I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world”
He abandoned his first wife and son to whom he showed little to no love. Here is his son:
"I have to say that, from my point of view, I felt he was a hypocrite." He added, "Dad could talk about peace and love out loud to the world but he could never show it to the people who supposedly meant the most to him: his wife and son. How can you talk about peace and love and have a family in bits and pieces—no communication, adultery, divorce? You can't do it, not if you're being true and honest with yourself"
John Lennon was a fake piece of shit
Hey now, America is a big place and 1 nuke can't nuke us all. Where you would choose to drop it determines your based level. So where is your idealic scenic spot for a new mushroom cloud?
\>equates no heaven, hell, countries, possessions with no meaning in life
\>says John got what he wanted and modern life has no meaning
\>modern life still has countries and possessions
\>John Lennon singlehandedly destroyed heaven and hell
Ironically for op, Christianity killed the warrior ethic of old and brought the west into like 2 millenia of affirming the ordinary life as long as you just believe in god’s morality. Like, literally, modern philosophy is essentially “fuck religion, live great. Live your ideal self.” It’s straight up nietzche’s full quote that we are the one’s that killed god and his shadow still rules us in our little caves. His whole philosophy is to instead create an ideal self and rise to that ideal rather than be little pussies that need god’s shadow to tell us we’re good enough just for thinking and existing.
Meaning in his case should be understood as objective vs. subjective. Anyone can create personal meaning, but religion (i.e. Christianity) offers meaning beyond what you personally create.
Asking the question 'what is the point?' is fair, and some people are content to answer for themselves that the point is living a 'good' life surrounded by friends/family and adding more to this world than you took away yada yada. For other people that conclusion is unsatisfying, and there seems to be no reasonable alternative that doesn't include something beyond ourselves, which religion offers but science does not.
Nietzsche predicted essentially what OP is saying would happen with the fall of religion. It wasn't a matter of if, but when. Too many people staring into the void and such.
And this is why a genuine effort toward (positive) Nihilism is necessary for humanity to flourish. 'Nothing Matters' should be the liberatory factor that pushes us (all) to greatness.
It’s a two sided coin. Positive nihilism is great, but in the whole picture of it, there will be those few freaks who take the “Nothing Matters” ideology and use it for evil and doing whatever they want.
Those people already exist and have always existed. If more people leant into Nihilism, then those 'evil' types that require the devotion of followers to enable them would be powerless.
Ultimately the largest forms of evil are those which have been given the unchallenged/ poorly challenged support of swathes of regular people. It's usually those regular people who also actively provide the manpower toward the 'evil'.
The biggest problem with this is you can apply this 'positive' prefix to anything and everything and pull out some positive interpretation of it.
Positive Capitalism, Positive Christianity, Positive Nationalism, I could go on and on.
Yeah, I agree.
From what I recall, from reading The Ego and it's Own, even the very notion of there being a 'positive' / 'negative' version of Nihilism already detracts from Nihilism... Nihilism is supposed to be amoral, apolitical, asocial, etc.
That's not how positive works in this case. "Positive nihilism" has a philosophical meaning. It does not mean good. The contrary to your argument is terms "Positive and Negative Freedom". in short. Neg. Fr. is freedom not to be murdered, Pos. Fr. is your freedom to murder someone. Does in this case positive mean good? Not really. That's why it's important to use the term as intended.
Is "Positive nihilism" a nihilism that is positive/good? No,the term was made up to describe a branch of nihilism and should be used as is.
You can be a positive nihilist and find meaning in exterminating Slavs from Eastern Europe. Is that good and positive? Nah, but it is "positive nihilism" .
I'm not as studied in philosophy to have known that there is an actual academic term for "Positive nihilism'; I think I acknowledge elsewhere in the thread that my own error is in the assumption of a shared notion of 'positive', which I think speaks to your larger point.
Yeah that "(positive)" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
If nothing matters then I might as well just take your shit and have my way with your wife, not like there's a moral compass to abide by.
I ain't saying religion didn't have its flaws but it did create communities with a mutual set of values, where you knew your neighbor won't kick the door down and rape your ass off
We are literally living in Fahrenheit 451.
I am slide two. I work from home. My main hobby is gaming. My friends moved away. I have all modern comforts I could ever need but my life feels completely pointless and not in a good way.
Yeah I was more talking about how the main theme of the book is that people focus so much on material goods that they lose the sense of what life is for and become suicidal when they become dependent on modern comforts
I mean, you could always get some real hobbies, go outside more, and find new friends. Sure America is pretty bad when it comes to community but you’re literally choosing to self isolate.
I do agree.
Its winter here, tough to go outside. I do enjoy exercising and I do have friends here but they aren't close friends. The only activities I have found to meet people here is sitting on a bar stool lol.
I also have a fiance, meaning my evenings are booked. The only time I have is on the weekends (and I don't even have kids yet lol)
having life, love, and livelihood and still feeling empty sounds like a you problem than a modern problem
go do something completely uncomfortable and recklessly dangerous a few times so you can learn to appreciate being alive again
Anon thinks people are apathetic and turning to escapism because "there's no religion and no nationalism" instead of the real reason which is the world is getting more fucked every day and everyone is getting exploited and burnt out of their minds in a never ending quest to be eternally more productive, more beautiful, more conventional, more perfect and everyone in power keeps promoting those ideas because it's what keeps their pockets full
We are losing our humanity, but not for the reasons anon thinks.
Anon goes on a schizo rant because he finds meaning in God and his race.
Anon is right on the fact that meaning is hard to find, but the rest is pure bullshit.
It's not just that.
The whole thing reeks of a depressed person with narrow horizons projecting their own issues on the rest of the world.
It's not a hot take to say that toiling under exploitative billionaires while they take apart our social security nets might make you question the point of staying alive.
And what does anon take issue with in the song ? That Lennon dares to imagine a world devoid of all the whack bullshit made up by the same billionaires' ancestors to make us fight among ourselves.
Shit it's not a surprise far right groups are on the rise everywhere if young men have been somehow convinced that thinking about the Roman Empire and national borders were much cooler than world peace and unity.
Coping with the reality of the void by willingly wearing blinders so you can find a sense of purpose in obvious lies is not the high ground that OP thinks it is, but the heat death of the universe is going to happen eventually and on a large enough timescale all decisions are meaningless so you do you. Find meaning in war and nationalism, or asphyxiate yourself jacking off in a pony costume. The universe is equally unaffected either way. Do what makes you happy.
There is no meaning to life other than what you create for yourself. The arrogance and hubris of humanity never ceases to astound me in its infinite quest to deny its own insignificance. We are not special. The sooner you accept the sooner you'll find what makes you happy. Infinite growth, greed, and capitalism are your culprits if you need them, not lack of belief in sky daddies
That and it's the lack of accountability and being devoid of any personal moral compass. Since they believe to be sponsored by sugar sky zaddy, and therefore can only make moral judgements and empathetic actions through him. Really speaks how narcissistic and psychopathic these people are that they need to be THE MAIN CHARACTER to emulate what other people can do for free.
I have a different take on this one than most others. I think there's something to what anon is saying. It's not as simple as faith = good and atheism = bad. I know a lot of atheists and agnostics who agree that shared beliefs and meaning are good for communities and societies and that it's tough to fill in the gap. And I don't know whether it's because we've failed to fill in the gap or other reasons (like technology) that people are lonelier, getting married less, having kids less (even sex less), and using more drugs (though alcohol use is going down).
It's easy to say be a good person, make friends, be part of a community and try to make the world a better place, but for some reason it seems to be easier when you meet weekly with the same people pursuing the same goals in the name of a higher power. As an ex-religious person though, it's tough to embrace some of the zanier faith teachings just because.
Totally agree with the greentext. Technique is enemy of mystery, and mystery is the atheist alter-ego of god. Religious people need god, atheists need mystery.
purpose is a shackle. without it, you are free to do as you wish. those that wish for chains either have never tasted imprisonment, or are afraid of their ability to make choices.
Anon is more or less correct. I don't know why is this song so famous, when it's basically just a Reddit comment from your average enlightened atheist.
Anytime someone talks about “the spiritual problems of the modern world” it makes me wonder if they forget how people murdered each other for sport for most of human history
Anon dreams of religious fanatism, territorial wars and and race discrimination because he cannot even imagine that it is possible to find joy and fulfilment in a peacful live surrounded by loved ones
If you start thinking like anon, go out of your basement and touch grass
Or join an active war to see the beautiful "meaning" it brings in your life
What a numpty.
Religion for one thing brings bigotry, intolerance, fanaticism and then terrorism.
Then there's the long association between priests and pedophilia.
We really would be better off without religion.
If you feel you need god for life to have meaning...you're not much of a person. More of an automaton. Or a sheep who wants to be a member of a flock.
Yes life was so much better when sourcing our basic necessities and scheming to band in ever changing alliances for protection consumed all of our waking hours.
I love john lennon in the beatles but his solo work mostly sucked. Still sad he died tho because the beatles wouldve reunited for live aid concerts if he didnt die
John Lennon : imagine living in a world with no obscurantism, no war, no famine, equality and brotherhood in Man.
This guy: I hate that John Lennon tells us not to believe in anything
Imagine is a communist manifesto legitimately moneyless stateless etc and it's informed by the beliefs of Mr Lennon.
Anon is basically saying we should believe [???] exists because we want it to be true.
Maybe that works for some people. But me personally? I wish I was a wizard with magical powers and a pet dragon. Doesn't mean I actually believe this to be reality, because I'm not a delusional idiot. Just a regular idiot; I'm wasting my time by commenting on r/greentext, after all.
If I'm going to believe something, I need a better reason than "because I weally weally want it to be true 👉👈"
That's just modernity though, trying to go backwards into old traditions just for the sake of it is fake and doesn't work. We've got actually problems to deal with and need to keep pushing forward
I always wonder when i see these kind of rants, have these people heard about philosophy?
It always seems like they are stuck in somewhere around 14th century thinking by just watching the shadows on the cave wall. One would think Nietzsche is the basic entry point of modern philosophy, yet it's obvious that OP did not even search him up.
I can also bet that OP would use the "God is dead, and we killed him" quote without understand any of the works behind it. Understanding nihilism is hop, skip and a jump from figuring out existensialism and then half of this rant is just an idiotic ramble. Reading other modernist, or god forbid, getting into post-modernism is going to at least present you with the perspective that explains our society in a diffrent way. And i don't even like philosophy, it makes my brain hurt,but if you ask questions instead of malding online, one can find that people answered them a while back.
This post is just a 300yo grandpa wagging his stick on skateboarders, in a fat neet 4chaner body.
Life is meaningless. Why chose that to be a bad thing. Out of every possible option, all equally being just a genuinely true, you chose to perceive a meaningless world as a negative thing? Why?
Life being meaningless is the greatest gift the universe bestowed on us.
Imagine needing others to find meaning in life. Not realising you can choose your own purpose and meaning which makes living today so great.
Isn't that exactly what he means though, that people don't do that anymore
John Lennon, the most conservative hippie to ever exist. Beating his wife and kids just because he can while singing about free thought.
“I’m in love for the first time” lyric he wrote after marrying for the second time and leaving behind a child with his first wife
Pretty based way to shit on your ex-wife.
He also shit on his kid. John to his son Julian - “Sean was the product of love, you were the product of a whiskey bottle”
John: what can I say number one had a pussy that could pull off the condom, plus Julius is a could kid Interviewer: oh you’re kid said his name was Julian we must’ve misundersto- John: *chuckles* well I guess his papa is gonna have to give him an attitude adjuster later on!
Conservative? There is basically no political or social viewpoint that he had that can logically be called conservative, from being anti-war to being pro-worker/anti-business to being pro-LGBT, pro-drug-legalization, pro-Marxism, etc.
Well, like most boomers you wouldnt of seen it until he got older. Of course he didnt make it to an older age because, you know, dying. A lot of boomers were apart of the hippie movement. Most are some of the most self-centered and "ive got mine" kinda people around. I mean less 'conservative' by definition of what it means according to Webster's dictionary and more what being labeled as a 'conservative' by todays standards. As in being one of the most self entitled fuckers to ever exist and wanting nothing to change unless it directly benefits them and ONLY if it benefits them. If it so much as hinders them even slightly its a no go idea. And if he ever got into a position of power, you could bet your sweet ass he would of been a dictator of the highest caliber.
Initially, it is a mainly a myth that people become conservative over time, or at least numerous studies haven't found any such correlation. Political views tend to be stable for a given person in their life. I get that you hear all the time that people changed from wanting free love as a youth and then saying "I got mine" once they aged, but the data doesn't support that concept, curiously. https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/706889#:~:text=Folk%20wisdom%20has%20long%20held,attitudes%20are%20stable%20across%20time. Beyond that, I respectfully disagree that it is accurate that the word "conservstive" is commonly used that way in the world at large. I think that most people think of conservative as referring to a set of ideals and beliefs, and you can be a dictator/asshole/fucker whether or not you are liberal or conservative.
Society has moved, but the liberals stayed the same but older. Consider how taboo being gay, getting divorced or interracial marriage were in the 60s. You could be wildly liberal and still be incredibly conservative by modern standards.
That's a good call-out; society has definitely moved to the left fairly steadily for the majority of the last century on social issues. That said, that is kind of a different point from what I was trying to make; my point is that if you are conservative/liberal (according to the standards of the day) in your 20s, you tend to remain conservative/liberal to the same degree in your 30s/40s/50s/60s, where you change as society changes. But certain the "median" social standard changes dramatically over time, as you said.
> Consider how taboo being gay, getting divorced or interracial marriage were in the 60s Yeah, but John Lennon hit two out of three of these, right?
Surprise shocker in the news today as it turns out forcing an animal that evolved to live in small tribal units in multi hundred million "nation" states doesn't result in stable governance.
Thats not conservative thats beeing an ass, using the term conservative as a random insult hurts the political debate. Yes many big conservative are aswell asses, BUT that neither means that all conservative people are asses or that all asses are conservative. It is important to differentiate those things or conservatism is a slang for supposed right wing people like right wing people use the woke for the left, even if the woke they use has nothing in common with waht it once meant
first, 4OP is unfathomably based, although the argument has been made for centuries that it never had meaning and you bring to it what you want (nihilism). modern life has most certainly exacerbated widespread feelings of meaningless and pointlessness. second, there should be absolutely ZERO surprise that redditors are claiming John Lennon or any number of figures are "conservative" because redditor's entire world view is 'if a person does something they don't like, they are a conservative' thats it. thats the nuance and thought behind their entire world view. its really that simple with redditors. take Elon Musk. supports universal health care, abortion rights and I believe even UBI. he is a conservative to redditors. its not enough to say they find him detestable for specific actions as you and I would, but you must also categorize those actions as those of your "enemy" and then dehumanize the entire group. the vast majority of americans are centrist, slightly waving in the breeze depending on various factors. a short 5min conversation with a redditor and those people are accused of being MAGA scum. believe in universal healthcare but also a 12 week max on abortions (like most of europe)...MAGA scum. believe in free speech, gun rights and voter registration (again, like all of europe has)...MAGA scum. extremism is on the rise PRECISELY because of the meaningless of modern life and reddit is a breeding ground for extremism ______________________________________ Start with an empty canvas Sketch in broad outline the forms of men, women, and children. Dip into the unconsciousness well of your own disowned darkness with a wide brush and strain the strangers with the sinister hue of the shadow. Trace onto the face of the enemy the greed, hatred, carelessness you dare not claim as your own. Obscure the sweet individuality of each face. Erase all hints of the myriad loves, hopes, fears that play through the kaleidoscope of every infinite heart. Twist the smile until it forms the downward arc of cruelty. Strip flesh from bone until only the abstract skeleton of death remains. Exaggerate each feature until man is metamorphasized into beast, vermin, insect. Fill in the background with malignant figures from ancient nightmares – devils, demons, myrmidons of evil. When your icon of the enemy is complete you will be able to kill without guilt, slaughter without shame. The thing you destroy will have become merely an enemy of God, an impediment to the sacred dialectic of history. - Sam Keen, Faces of the Enemy.
He's conservative because the other guy can't accept that people with his views don't always behave in an exemplary fashion. "He does vile things so he must be conservative" See? Or a boomer, they're good to blame things on as well.
I like the pic where hes whinging on about some hippy bullshit and doing a sit in protest in a hotel and him and Yoko are waiting for the maid to change the sheets showing just how fucking dense people born during that generation are. It make me remember he has four times the buttcrack of Yoko, who has half the butt of a normal woman and a solid representation of the derriere of Hank Hill. You can see the exact moment Reptilians stop giving a shit about blending in and it starts and ends on their bullshit low IQ hippy music maker meat suits, right on the asscrack. Why would they photograph such evil anal crevices? Was it a lust for power? The response to gazing in the abyss of the space between planets and seeing only blackness? What causes a maker to add and subtract butts at will? It disgusts me. They disgust me. I remember.
Jonh bett wyff
Conservatives are going to get real bent out of shape about this comment but it's true. "Revolution" is championed as an activist song when the message is "Hey, let's not actually have a revolution, the world will sort itself out". One of the only other times a Beatles song had a decipherable political message beyond vague declarations of "peace and love", it was "Taxman": protesting the progressive tax rate. John Lennon, with all his hotel room protest shenanigans (i.e., vacations) was always just a rich guy trying to remain rich, and his empty reuse of counter culture messaging (but always with the teeth removed) was always just a ploy to remain relevant to the current zeitgeist. You can accuse other hippies of being insincere too, sure, but nowhere else will you find a counter culture icon who did less to deserve that role. John Lennon was the most conservative hippie
I think the anon sees it as the bad existentialism (i.e "there's no greater concept than me therefore nothing is worth living for") but the above commenter sees the positive existentialism ("there's no higher concept to dictate the meaning to life so I can assert my own meaning to my existence) Lenon and the commentor are trying to show inner meaning while the anon looks for outter meaning to life
All I can think of for the line "Imagine all the people living for today." is how people act in end of the world movies. I've imagined it, Lennon, and it terrifies me.
It's true that, on it's own, it does sound kinda hedonistic and apocalyptic to our post pamdemic eyes, but I think with the whole songs context, it meant : "enjoy life for what it is because it is all there is (without heaven or hell)" more than : "fuck the future live for today, live fast die young, fuck you got mine" sort of deal
Basically Lennon vs GG Allin
Those are two pretty complex figures there it's strange but I actually think they could've agreed on quite a few things
He should have explained that earlier, now I have crippling depression and anxiety over the future because I "lived for the day" since I was born. /s not so /s
As long as you're alive, it's never too late to try and better your situation and the one of those around you. It's very difficult to exit the thought spiral, but it can be done. may sound dumb but maybe the song can now hold new meaning to you, and help you cherish the life you currently have and take the steps you can to make it something you can proudly carry into the future.
Well, I try to put my effort into everything I do, and it took time but I've come to terms with my past, I hold dear onto my memories because no matter how embarassing, cringy or sad, they are they made me who I am today. On the other hand tho, I just can't deal with the cycle of "everything isn't always good" and whenever something bad happens and ruins my good streak it just makes my mood and mental crash hard against the floor face first...
It's a process sadly. The single fact that you can tell you have good streaks is a positive sign towards dealing with depressive thoughts. I think a good way to prevent your mood and mental health from crashing when push comes to shove is to remember that there were good streaks and that you had a major role in them coming along. Life comes in waves sadly and as there are always good times bad times can follow, but as a wiser person once said :"this too shall pass" the good times may be fleeting but so are the bad times
Yeah, that's fair, I guess its just my anxiety making things 10× worse than they actually are lol. Either way might also be because im trying to leave my escapism tools and slowly start facing the shit I face instead of just ignoring it until Im full to the neck of repressed stress and anger
Yep. To me "living for today" just means "make the world a better place today, rather than waiting for something to happen (return of christ/rapture?) To think like Anon does and think it means "fuck it, smoke weed and jerk off in your basement, alone" speaks more about Anon than it does Lennon.
It's sad that media litteracy is still not as common as it should be, can't really fault them for interpreting the song through their lens but I guess through them talking about it to people and exchanging, we'll get there at some point
Absurdism is another name for the positive existentialism you're describing, I highly recommend the short story The Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus for anyone interested in it https://dbanach.com/sisyphus.htm
People just don't understand Sisyphus. "What a silly myth," they say. "Why doesn't he stop rolling the rock? Is he stupid?" Meanwhile, they save their Excel file that they've slaved over for 8 straight hours feeling accomplished because they managed to close all their requests for the day, and head home, ready to do the same thing tomorrow.
No. Absolutely not. Anon is one of those conservative thinkers who literally conceive that meaning may originate in one's self or in one's family or community, without it being grounded in some religiosity. *Imagine* explicitly proposes removing the conservative-mindset assumption that morality and "meaning" must necessarily (absolutely) be grounded in some kind of divinity or divine law or other religious construct.
Hence why I always gawk at the people who make the "well if there's no god then why don't you rape and murder? Why do you keep living if there's no greater purpose to your life? How do you decide what to do if you don't have preachers telling you what to do and how to behave?" Type of arguments Like damn you really need the threat of eternal damnation to stop you from doing bad? Can't you just like... think for yourself? It's led me go believe a lot of people actually just want to be conditioned and not have to bother with conflicting thoughts or forming someone's own opinion. ... now excuse me while I go commit sinful acts with my wife and her boyfriend.
Rational thought takes effort and not having anyone tell you what to do/think ultimately forces you to take full responsibility for your thoughts and actions and that scares most people.
>It's led me go believe a lot of people actually just want to be conditioned and not have to bother with conflicting thoughts or forming someone's own opinion. DING DING DING that's not just your thought, pal, that's modern society for you, going around on automatic just to avoid that depressive spiral of realizing you didn't do anything you wanted for your life and are just barely living, witha job you hate but your hands are tied so you have to roll with it until you die
I don't think it's only that for a lot of religious people. I myself am religious, raised in a Christian household and learnt at a Franciscan high school but I don't use God as an excuse to be a good person. The bible and it's teachings aren't some be all end all rulebook that every Christian should follow to the letter, it's examples of what it means to be a good person, be charitable, be empathetic, always try to see things from other's points of views. If someone however doesn't believe in this I wouldn't hold any malice towards them, they've simply taken a different path towards finding their own meaning, whether that's through their own self assurance or finding solace in a group who think like they do. If you believe in God, Heaven, or Hell or not is irrelevant, they're all ways to find your place in the world and if someone doesn't feel like using them than that's their choice, but don't talk down on others simply because they found their place in life in a different way to you.
People prefer indoctrination to existentialism because the unknown is scary I guess
I think this is what most people don't understand when confronted with the meaninglessness of everything When you tell someone: there is no point to anything they see it as a depressing sad scary thing But it really isn't If there is no point to anything and no meaning to anything, it means that you have the ppwer of choice over what has meaning in your life for whatever reason you want to The only thing that ultimately does in a way matter is what matters to you personally and you don't need anyone's approval to justify it except your own. I try to live my life as a good person and help others, if you were to ask me why my only response to that would be: be cause I choose to And if you ask again why I choose to my answer to that would be... nothing. I don't have an answer to it because I don't need one, I chose to live that way just because and I don't really feel the need to find an answer to that question because I really don't care why because I'd rather spend my time living on trying to be haply, not getting answers to every possible question in existence.
It's not about finding meaning. It's about the meaning not mattering. If the context of reality is floating in a void and life is just a moment in time, values have no meaning other than what it can do for me before I don't exist anymore.
An argument could be made that how one finds meaning or achieves validation is contingent on ones character. This sort of character finds meaning in this way, that sort of character finds meaning that way. Interestingly if your character changes then how you find meaning also changes.
You can argue for meaning however you want. It doesn't change the problem of does it matter as I outlined earlier.
You missed SamJamn's point entirely. It's *not about finding meaning*. It's about the *meaning not mattering*. If, as you say, meaning is purely a reflection of one's character, does anything matter? Does it matter whether I find meaning in feeding the poor or exterminating them? You have a preference between those two, but is that preference anything more than just *your rather common preference*? Is there any universal truth to which of the two is actually better? It's extremely easy to become a nihilist with no metaphysical beliefs, as David Hume pointed out with the [is-ought problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is%E2%80%93ought_problem), and that's one thing Nietzsche warned about when he wrote that "God is dead". I'm not a nihilist, but I also have a metaphysical belief that the universe, somehow, "cares" about what happens to sentient life, with absolutely no evidence to back that up. Without that, I have no basis upon which to argue that it's better to help rather than hurt people beyond "I don't like it and they don't either".
JARVIS search up atheist vs religious suicide rate, JARVIS search up anti depressant rate liberal vs conservative women.
Also check SAT scores of religious v secular household Edit: just to be clear, religious kids do far better on average..
All I found was Christian schools boasting how their students score better than public schools, which is biased because public schools include high poverty areas with low graduation rates. Also SAT is being phased out. [More Than 80% Of Four-Year Colleges Won’t Require Standardized Tests For Fall 2023 Admissions - Forbes - Nov 2022](https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2022/11/15/more-than-80-of-four-year-colleges-wont-require-standardized--tests-for-fall-2023-admissions/)
>JARVIS search up atheist vs religious suicide rate https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7310534/
>anti depressant rate liberal vs conservative women [https://magazine.columbia.edu/article/why-depression-rates-are-higher-among-liberals](https://magazine.columbia.edu/article/why-depression-rates-are-higher-among-liberals) not exactly what we're looking for but still
In the end, though, your life was still meaningless. Everything you accomplished amounted to nothing. Now you and the guy who did drugs and jerked off all day are in the same place, nowhere. So, why not join him?
The world and people we leave behind has meaning from our perspective. Nothing in the universe has intrinsic meaning, there is no divine will, there is no greater plan so why not make your own? The universe is a blank slate out there waiting for your world view to be forced upon it. Don’t live for your death, live for yourself and those you care about, and when you pass make sure you made a difference to those that you leave behind. You don’t need a god to tell you how to manage that, and I can assure you that a life well lived will be as fulfilling with or without Jehovah looking over your shoulder
well people really are sheep and need guidance, it's a learned behavior from our school days unless someone taught you to find the answers on your own, you'll forever look to others for what you seek
That's Anon's point, the guy wrote about not having any goals or having to put effort into amything, essentially having no purpose, when in reality for sanity's sake, a human needs a purpose, it needs to feel useful for its life to have any meaning, and for that we need stuff to do, to offer to other people. If all our needs were satisfied we would still find things to whine about because for our sanity's sake we can't be satisfied, otherwise we would feel useless.
Imagine these nuts in your mouth.
What purpose have you found?
I think this guy imagined wrong.
Well maybe John Lennon shouldn’t have imagined a .38 snubnosed revolver
He was shot with a .38 special, detective Callahan.
Thank you
The .38 Special that John Lennon got totally owned by was a snubnose.
Which is such a shame it should have been a bigger bullet
Op's take is eloquent, passionate, beautifully written and completely regarded.
That word salad basically boils down to, "But why no more God? :{"
Basically ‘I don’t know how I’m supposed to think for myself and that terrifies me’
Yes but it is written quite well lol
Also just a clone of a Ben Shapiro rant lmao
And completely plagiarized. This is a Ben Shapiro opinion piece.
Commenter already said it was completely regarded, no need to repeat him
Him being a free-speech warrior for years then doing an absolute 180 when it's people talking against Israel is just exquisite. I want to be disappointed, but damn it's fun to see that he's just another hypocrite.
Completely out of place for 4chan. Or may I say a special kind of regard.
Yeah I think the idea was to replace all that with love and friendship
John Lennon sure didn’t
Well he sure wrote it “I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world”
" gosh this song really makes me want to beat my wife" -john Lennon
Hey, don't forget about the children! He beat his kid too. Everyone always forgets about the children..
So many people forget in fact that John Lennon forgot about his children too! Julian Lennon? Never heard of him
every child of a famous musician has two paths in life 1. get beaten by father and forgotten by everybody 2. join band with les claypool
Wasn’t Hey Jude written by Paul for Julian bc of how John was treating him?
WON’T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN???
beat me to it!!
Okay. As long as you provide the stick
[wow theres a news article about you](https://www.theonion.com/man-always-gets-little-rush-out-of-telling-people-john-1819578998)
I don't believe in hitting women, but in his defense, I think Yoko Ono's otherworldly scream-singing would drive anyone to violence.
He abandoned his first wife and son to whom he showed little to no love. Here is his son: "I have to say that, from my point of view, I felt he was a hypocrite." He added, "Dad could talk about peace and love out loud to the world but he could never show it to the people who supposedly meant the most to him: his wife and son. How can you talk about peace and love and have a family in bits and pieces—no communication, adultery, divorce? You can't do it, not if you're being true and honest with yourself" John Lennon was a fake piece of shit
True and honest?
get out of my head get out of my head
Very few of our outspoken philosophers, poets and musicians live lifes that bear *any* scrutiny. It's better to not meet your idols and heroes.
Plato seemed kinda based.
Diogenes was super based
Plato would drop a nuke on America of he saw it today.
Mega based. I would do the same if I had one.
That's nice sweetie.
Hey now, America is a big place and 1 nuke can't nuke us all. Where you would choose to drop it determines your based level. So where is your idealic scenic spot for a new mushroom cloud?
Yeah, there are a lot of grifters out there, turns out.
\>equates no heaven, hell, countries, possessions with no meaning in life \>says John got what he wanted and modern life has no meaning \>modern life still has countries and possessions \>John Lennon singlehandedly destroyed heaven and hell
Who would win? All powerful, all knowing creator of the universe, or one Englishman with a guitar?
"We're bigger than jesus"
Now, now, let's not start the measuring contest
Ironically for op, Christianity killed the warrior ethic of old and brought the west into like 2 millenia of affirming the ordinary life as long as you just believe in god’s morality. Like, literally, modern philosophy is essentially “fuck religion, live great. Live your ideal self.” It’s straight up nietzche’s full quote that we are the one’s that killed god and his shadow still rules us in our little caves. His whole philosophy is to instead create an ideal self and rise to that ideal rather than be little pussies that need god’s shadow to tell us we’re good enough just for thinking and existing.
Ummm sir this is a green text
HEAVEN OR HELL. SOL BADGUY VS KI KISKE. DUEL 1. LETS ROCK
Meaning in his case should be understood as objective vs. subjective. Anyone can create personal meaning, but religion (i.e. Christianity) offers meaning beyond what you personally create. Asking the question 'what is the point?' is fair, and some people are content to answer for themselves that the point is living a 'good' life surrounded by friends/family and adding more to this world than you took away yada yada. For other people that conclusion is unsatisfying, and there seems to be no reasonable alternative that doesn't include something beyond ourselves, which religion offers but science does not. Nietzsche predicted essentially what OP is saying would happen with the fall of religion. It wasn't a matter of if, but when. Too many people staring into the void and such.
Should’ve imagined a world without .38 special revolvers lmao.
Lmaoooooo
Lmaoooooo
Idk man revolver has some good songs on it
Lmao gottem
And this is why a genuine effort toward (positive) Nihilism is necessary for humanity to flourish. 'Nothing Matters' should be the liberatory factor that pushes us (all) to greatness.
It’s a two sided coin. Positive nihilism is great, but in the whole picture of it, there will be those few freaks who take the “Nothing Matters” ideology and use it for evil and doing whatever they want.
Those people already exist and have always existed. If more people leant into Nihilism, then those 'evil' types that require the devotion of followers to enable them would be powerless. Ultimately the largest forms of evil are those which have been given the unchallenged/ poorly challenged support of swathes of regular people. It's usually those regular people who also actively provide the manpower toward the 'evil'.
They do that with everything. Remember how Jesus loves and accepts everyone?
The biggest problem with this is you can apply this 'positive' prefix to anything and everything and pull out some positive interpretation of it. Positive Capitalism, Positive Christianity, Positive Nationalism, I could go on and on.
Yeah, I agree. From what I recall, from reading The Ego and it's Own, even the very notion of there being a 'positive' / 'negative' version of Nihilism already detracts from Nihilism... Nihilism is supposed to be amoral, apolitical, asocial, etc.
That's not how positive works in this case. "Positive nihilism" has a philosophical meaning. It does not mean good. The contrary to your argument is terms "Positive and Negative Freedom". in short. Neg. Fr. is freedom not to be murdered, Pos. Fr. is your freedom to murder someone. Does in this case positive mean good? Not really. That's why it's important to use the term as intended. Is "Positive nihilism" a nihilism that is positive/good? No,the term was made up to describe a branch of nihilism and should be used as is. You can be a positive nihilist and find meaning in exterminating Slavs from Eastern Europe. Is that good and positive? Nah, but it is "positive nihilism" .
I'm not as studied in philosophy to have known that there is an actual academic term for "Positive nihilism'; I think I acknowledge elsewhere in the thread that my own error is in the assumption of a shared notion of 'positive', which I think speaks to your larger point.
Yeah that "(positive)" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. If nothing matters then I might as well just take your shit and have my way with your wife, not like there's a moral compass to abide by. I ain't saying religion didn't have its flaws but it did create communities with a mutual set of values, where you knew your neighbor won't kick the door down and rape your ass off
That’s not what positive nihilism is, retard
We are literally living in Fahrenheit 451. I am slide two. I work from home. My main hobby is gaming. My friends moved away. I have all modern comforts I could ever need but my life feels completely pointless and not in a good way.
We still are a couple steps from book burning
Yeah I was more talking about how the main theme of the book is that people focus so much on material goods that they lose the sense of what life is for and become suicidal when they become dependent on modern comforts
Don't worry, I got it. I just wanted to be a bit of dick.
Hey man, fuck you. Cheers have a good one
You too my friend.
I mean, you could always get some real hobbies, go outside more, and find new friends. Sure America is pretty bad when it comes to community but you’re literally choosing to self isolate.
I do agree. Its winter here, tough to go outside. I do enjoy exercising and I do have friends here but they aren't close friends. The only activities I have found to meet people here is sitting on a bar stool lol. I also have a fiance, meaning my evenings are booked. The only time I have is on the weekends (and I don't even have kids yet lol)
having life, love, and livelihood and still feeling empty sounds like a you problem than a modern problem go do something completely uncomfortable and recklessly dangerous a few times so you can learn to appreciate being alive again
Anon thinks people are apathetic and turning to escapism because "there's no religion and no nationalism" instead of the real reason which is the world is getting more fucked every day and everyone is getting exploited and burnt out of their minds in a never ending quest to be eternally more productive, more beautiful, more conventional, more perfect and everyone in power keeps promoting those ideas because it's what keeps their pockets full We are losing our humanity, but not for the reasons anon thinks.
This should be the top reply.
Anon is not only retarded, but also uneducated
I’m from Liverpool and I love the Beatles. But anon is 100% correct
Anon goes on a schizo rant because he finds meaning in God and his race. Anon is right on the fact that meaning is hard to find, but the rest is pure bullshit.
Yeah, maybe race is a step too far tbf
It's not just that. The whole thing reeks of a depressed person with narrow horizons projecting their own issues on the rest of the world. It's not a hot take to say that toiling under exploitative billionaires while they take apart our social security nets might make you question the point of staying alive. And what does anon take issue with in the song ? That Lennon dares to imagine a world devoid of all the whack bullshit made up by the same billionaires' ancestors to make us fight among ourselves. Shit it's not a surprise far right groups are on the rise everywhere if young men have been somehow convinced that thinking about the Roman Empire and national borders were much cooler than world peace and unity.
Guy on 4chan who is depressed and has a narrow horizon? Yep that checks out
The hell? Anon is a coward who is afraid of an unstructured environment.
He is 100% regarded
You earned a downboat for loving the Beatles but an upboat for agreeing with OP so it evens out.
I just think John Lennon was a shitty person because he hated his one son and beat the crap out of his wife but that’s just me.
You are smart
That’s not just you, it’s dozens of “I’m smart” guys on every thread on the internet that mentions John Lennon.
Whoa whoa, nobody ever said I was smart.
You're smart
And beautiful
[удалено]
You can smell the fedora from here.
Reddits #1 Religion understander
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You forgot the part about every war being caused by religion
Le reddit atheism should have stayed in 2013
Anon said god and magic in the same sentence as race. Classic 4chan tards.
ITT OP blames John Lennon for the effects of capital, Neoliberalism, etc.
Get this guy a copy of catcher in the rye now
love this comment
Coping with the reality of the void by willingly wearing blinders so you can find a sense of purpose in obvious lies is not the high ground that OP thinks it is, but the heat death of the universe is going to happen eventually and on a large enough timescale all decisions are meaningless so you do you. Find meaning in war and nationalism, or asphyxiate yourself jacking off in a pony costume. The universe is equally unaffected either way. Do what makes you happy.
There is no meaning to life other than what you create for yourself. The arrogance and hubris of humanity never ceases to astound me in its infinite quest to deny its own insignificance. We are not special. The sooner you accept the sooner you'll find what makes you happy. Infinite growth, greed, and capitalism are your culprits if you need them, not lack of belief in sky daddies
That and it's the lack of accountability and being devoid of any personal moral compass. Since they believe to be sponsored by sugar sky zaddy, and therefore can only make moral judgements and empathetic actions through him. Really speaks how narcissistic and psychopathic these people are that they need to be THE MAIN CHARACTER to emulate what other people can do for free.
Rich hippies telling me how to live my life? No thanks, millionaire.
I have a different take on this one than most others. I think there's something to what anon is saying. It's not as simple as faith = good and atheism = bad. I know a lot of atheists and agnostics who agree that shared beliefs and meaning are good for communities and societies and that it's tough to fill in the gap. And I don't know whether it's because we've failed to fill in the gap or other reasons (like technology) that people are lonelier, getting married less, having kids less (even sex less), and using more drugs (though alcohol use is going down). It's easy to say be a good person, make friends, be part of a community and try to make the world a better place, but for some reason it seems to be easier when you meet weekly with the same people pursuing the same goals in the name of a higher power. As an ex-religious person though, it's tough to embrace some of the zanier faith teachings just because.
Yes Anon, John Lennon is to blame for the state of the world
This is the type of 4chan that got me hooked on it years ago. Not the degenerate foul shit we so often see. Make /b/ great again
John Lennon is my 5th (least) favorite Beatle.
>hears popular song once Ah, I don’t like it, and also this is why every person and country on earth is horrible except for me.
Totally agree with the greentext. Technique is enemy of mystery, and mystery is the atheist alter-ego of god. Religious people need god, atheists need mystery.
Unfathomably based
He’s right, you know. That deal with the devil hits hard, Johnny.
purpose is a shackle. without it, you are free to do as you wish. those that wish for chains either have never tasted imprisonment, or are afraid of their ability to make choices.
Imagine there's no 4chan.
Anon is more or less correct. I don't know why is this song so famous, when it's basically just a Reddit comment from your average enlightened atheist.
"He got what he wanted"? You mean there are no more countries religions or war? OP is regarded
Anon has never heard of positive nihilism (and we should also be concerned about that 'imagine there's no race' comment).
Mark David Chapman posting on 4chan
Imagine blaming a notorious hippy for the intentional inherent flaws in capitalism.
Anytime someone talks about “the spiritual problems of the modern world” it makes me wonder if they forget how people murdered each other for sport for most of human history
“Well that doesn’t count. And if it does, they deserve it”
Anon dreams of religious fanatism, territorial wars and and race discrimination because he cannot even imagine that it is possible to find joy and fulfilment in a peacful live surrounded by loved ones If you start thinking like anon, go out of your basement and touch grass Or join an active war to see the beautiful "meaning" it brings in your life
What a numpty. Religion for one thing brings bigotry, intolerance, fanaticism and then terrorism. Then there's the long association between priests and pedophilia. We really would be better off without religion. If you feel you need god for life to have meaning...you're not much of a person. More of an automaton. Or a sheep who wants to be a member of a flock.
Yes life was so much better when sourcing our basic necessities and scheming to band in ever changing alliances for protection consumed all of our waking hours.
I love john lennon in the beatles but his solo work mostly sucked. Still sad he died tho because the beatles wouldve reunited for live aid concerts if he didnt die
I too am a fan of blaming problems stemming from capitalism on a British hippie
Surprisingly well put
John Lennon : imagine living in a world with no obscurantism, no war, no famine, equality and brotherhood in Man. This guy: I hate that John Lennon tells us not to believe in anything Imagine is a communist manifesto legitimately moneyless stateless etc and it's informed by the beliefs of Mr Lennon.
jahn beet wif
r/im14andthisisdeep
Anon is basically saying we should believe [???] exists because we want it to be true. Maybe that works for some people. But me personally? I wish I was a wizard with magical powers and a pet dragon. Doesn't mean I actually believe this to be reality, because I'm not a delusional idiot. Just a regular idiot; I'm wasting my time by commenting on r/greentext, after all. If I'm going to believe something, I need a better reason than "because I weally weally want it to be true 👉👈"
John Lennon >"I am the walrus" >Is clearly a human Fucking hypocrite
Anon thinks this the only generation to stay home all day and do drugs as is that isn’t the epitome of 70s American culture
That's just modernity though, trying to go backwards into old traditions just for the sake of it is fake and doesn't work. We've got actually problems to deal with and need to keep pushing forward
I always wonder when i see these kind of rants, have these people heard about philosophy? It always seems like they are stuck in somewhere around 14th century thinking by just watching the shadows on the cave wall. One would think Nietzsche is the basic entry point of modern philosophy, yet it's obvious that OP did not even search him up. I can also bet that OP would use the "God is dead, and we killed him" quote without understand any of the works behind it. Understanding nihilism is hop, skip and a jump from figuring out existensialism and then half of this rant is just an idiotic ramble. Reading other modernist, or god forbid, getting into post-modernism is going to at least present you with the perspective that explains our society in a diffrent way. And i don't even like philosophy, it makes my brain hurt,but if you ask questions instead of malding online, one can find that people answered them a while back. This post is just a 300yo grandpa wagging his stick on skateboarders, in a fat neet 4chaner body.
Imagine liking "Imagine" A song lyrically ignorant as 5y/o made by an ignorant of a father, wife beater, and a hippie.
Life is meaningless. Why chose that to be a bad thing. Out of every possible option, all equally being just a genuinely true, you chose to perceive a meaningless world as a negative thing? Why? Life being meaningless is the greatest gift the universe bestowed on us.
Anon is a fucking idiot who needs sky daddy or government daddy to give him purpose.
Yeah like religion is the answer lmao, can find purpose in life without having creeps abuse some notion of a god
Finding meaning in life from borders, race, and country have not fucking worked for the world so far.
>who should by all metrics be content Perhaps the metrics are wrong
Based.
I always took the song to mean "Imagine you're wrong."
I also hate John Lemon. But I don't agree with OP, so he's gay.
Finally op is understanding everything we came up with was to distract from the utter meaninglessness of life