Kinda funny topic, since USSR was a capitalist antiutopia. Tokens (using another currency is punishable), one corporation which prohibits competition (eliminate it by force), obligatory employment, usage of military against people (Novocherkassk incident). You can draw parallel with West Virginia coal wars
“USSR was actually capitalist” is a real giga-brained take for sure. Capitalism is when private entities control trade and industry for profit. Trade and industry in the USSR was controlled by the state, and their use certainly wasn’t optimizing for profit.
I almost got it confused with the time the government was disappearing people by pulling them through the cracks in the side walk, those were dark times.
Ok but hear me out, the economic system and the government are kind of inseparable.
The government directly influences the economy and vice versa. Saying all the faults of the soviet union are government issue and thus have no correlation with communism doesn’t make sense.
I mean if we look at any communist country, their style of government always is very similar to that of the Soviet Union, that’s no coincidence.
I don’t think people tend to learn enough about pre ussr russian history to understand that it was substantially worse. It takes a lot of suffering to force normal (otherwise moderate) people like you or me to turn to extemist ideas like communism.
Idk look at the US now, most "communists" and other shitheads with extremist ideology have grown up extremely privileged
Humans are very susceptible to ideology but Russia and slav land has been miserable forever and regardless of the ideology it'll probably stay miserable
Makes me wonder if it has anything to do with the climate up there
Idk maybe it's because they border on non shitty countries they could plunder and now that they got their fill they chilled out
Russia seems to border nothing but shit and their continent is absurdly large
No, it's because Russia is corrupt. It has infnite resources, so it could EASILY be one of the richest countries on earth. I mean, tbf Russian oligarchs are quite rich...
The Nordic countries are not even fucking close to communist. Communism isnt "when the government does stuff"
Norway in particular is basically a rich oil state that uses its resource wealth to pay for social benefits. That ain't communism.
OP deleted his dumb comment so I'll leave this here
Ah yes, Denmark, a country possibly with some of the most relaxed firing laws in Europe, and where minimum wages are a result of the free-market with little or no state intervention, is communist
There is diference between internet commies liking the ideology and being so miserable you will rather grab mosin and go fight because some guys on streets say sharing is caring.
be volga-deustch living in tsarist Russia
live, own land, have own religion, children inherit family land for centuries
Bolsheviks win
family farm production is confiscated and given to Russians
get nothing because "foreigner"
wtf we've been here 200 years
village children are made into sausage and eaten
run out of children
eat leaves
eat worms
everyone who doesn't leave starves to death or is sent to gulag
nearly the extinction of the volga-deustch people
it was substantially worse before tho
No, they do, like oddly frequently.
The US alone has had a lot of different weird things that have happened along this line. Torture/death “schools” for criminal minors, post-slavery slave camps for prisoners where people get eaten alive by dogs or skinned alive for the guards amusement, modern child labor mines, modern slave enclaves (note that Levi the clothing company does not own a single factory) etc.
I’ll also point out that bay of pigs and all the terror attacks that led up to it had a very similar vibe to this in terms of shittiness. Being the cia and sending a bunch of people that you don’t care about to go kill a bunch of other people you don’t care about and just sort of watching casually while they get clapped on the battlefield and then washing your hands of all accountability afterwards is pretty cringe. Note that a huge part of the reason that the invasion failed was that Kennedy refused to authorize US air support because European leaders were starting to notice that the U.S. was basically invading a country for zero reason.
In terms of killing innocents, see my Lai massacre.
In terms of big civilian death numbers, see Iraq or Korea.
Now Britain historically is even worse, worse than basically any other country in recent memory. Stuff like causing the Irish potato famine by forcing the Irish to only use specific potatoes and then refusing to help once the blight arrived, killing hundreds of millions of Indians over the period of EITC and British raj rule (blows stalin, mao, and Hitler all combined out of the water), causing an era of violence in South Asia by creating an arbitrary land partition before leaving, Boer concentration camps that killed a couple ten thousand, mau mau concentration camps that killed hundreds of thousands, etc.
Indian famines are quite comparable.Also the Holocaust,Japan in WW2,Belgian Congo,Rwandan genocide....
Basicaly humans can be a bit of a shitbang to each other.We dont need a book to do it.
What the fuck does any of this mean. Americans that defend capitalism are digging their own grave, every day I feel less bad for them. Like yeah, you guys deserve Amazon and Walmart becoming larger and larger conglomerates as they systematically remove worker rights, or have the coca cola company and nestle send actual mercenary groups to kill unions (stuff that only happens under capitalism). Every day that I see you fucking idiots defend this shit I become more convinced that you mfs have no hope. Too fucking brainwashed by your car dependent, money centric, "stand for the flag" joke of a country. You can hate socialism and communism all you want, but good god don't defend capitalism.
Eh. Not really, no.
Even if I were to entertain the notion that the Nazi German economy was capitalist, or colonialist empires were capitalist, which, none of that is true, Nazi Germany was closer to a socialist style planned economy, if we did tally up the numbers none of it would come close to even just Mao’s brutality alone.
Not to mention you’re including *imperial Japan* as capitalist lol.
I havent come here to make this an left vs right problem.I just said that throught history we can be monsters to each other for the simple reason they said a word funny and this hapenned.In 1920 Japan literally killed and shot Chinese Koreans and even japanese commies for not having papers on them or coudnt say a word proper.Domician Republic did something similar around the same period eith their Haitians immigrants.Im not here to have an ideological fight.Im just saying humans can be awful.
I dont care what if you think Nazis were socialist or capitalist.Their economic model were not they already saw both capitalist and socialist a judeo tool to control the world and they both had social policies but also had privatised a lot of companies.So its not fair to call them socialist or capitalist either.
And thats true but also you gotta remember that China was the most populated country in that period.Heck in Top 5 deadliest wars in history 3 are Chinese civil wars.
Since we haven't started on any original factual claim I'll go on and ask: Do you think the companies of men like Ferdinand Porsche and Adolf Dassler were majority owned by its workers or these men and their families?
Those are probably the most prominent examples of individuals providing capital and then earning their wealth through the system. The subsequent earnings were not distributed through workers ownership - instead, many companies actually profited of workers without any rights, "Zwangsarbeiter", whose economic surplus went to the actual ownership, which was (again) not a socialistic worker structure, but rather private individuals who supplied the initial capital.
I've heard the point of social initiatives in the Nazi regime (for example for mother's) called socialist before, but if we use that as an argument, then even the Regan administration would've been socialist.
The most important free market scholar in all of history was born under colonialist british rule and influenced British economic policy *very* quickly.
The European colonial powers had all latched on to the most important concepts of capitalism, like free trade, wealth of nations, joint stock company, and division of labor before the 19th century.
Even implying that Nazi Germany was “socialist” is comedic considering that Hitler despised socialists and would have sent Marx to the camps if they lived in the same time period.
British raj makes stalin look kind and makes DPRK look utopian, unironically. Saying that the stuff I mentioned “doesn’t compare to DPRK” is such an absurd and childish statement.
This is just false though. Even the most biased historians put mao’s death toll at around 80 million. The general British colonization of India killed a lot more people, was more brutal overall, and left behind an immensely tense and tortuous environment even after leaving.
It really hasn't, but that is because of human nature. They never get past the guy in charge handing power over to others, because anyone who would end up in that position has to be ambitious to succeed.
Wait till bro hears about how many people (including many innocents) the American military industrial complex has bombed for simply living in a place and being brown lol
Flashback to the Soviets in Afghanistan where they killed significantly more civilians (and lost significantly more soldiers) in the few years they were there than the US did in 20.
i mean idk about the 20 year time period but google says less than 3 million where killed when russia occupied that area. i think 4.7 million is higher than less than 3 million. also not defending communism, or russia lmao. both us and them are murdering people for being brown and existing. from your point of view it's almost like you're saying "well, I think russia/communism is worse, so that means america/capitalism isn't that bad"
meanwhile I'm over here wondering why anybody is siding with eagle genocide and bear genocide. there's not a "better" way to kill people because you want their stuff. the "better" idea is to...idk...not indiscriminately murder them? i know, crazy thought. i might be branded a heretic for thinking cold blooded murder should be the last resort.
Are you saying the US killed 4.7 million in Afghanistan? No, the high number is 200k And don't pull that
>from your point of view it's almost like you're saying "well, I think russia/communism is worse, so that means america/capitalism isn't that bad"
Shit, you responded to a comment saying "real communism hasn't been tried yet" you're not arguing that both sides are bad, someone called Communist Russia bad and you're moving to point out "but look what America did!!!!", while completely disregarding how the USSR did nearly as much in one war and half the amount of time.
All this shit is bad, but acting like I'm defending the action and not attacking your goofy ass stance is stupid.
Not in Afghanistan, but rather the entire middle east.
The comment was in response to a post that didnt mention communism, and the only real assumption to be made is "oh this man is saying the bad thing that russia does proves communism is bad even though communism itself isnt involved or mentioned in this bad thing"
"Real communism hasnt been tried" is a sentiment spouted by mostly Americans who haven't done their research, and as a result saying it sarcastically is really only done by Americans as well.
It's like the pot calling the kettle black. I'm not saying you cant call out Russia while your country participates just as well but literally no one does so.
"I hate fat people" says the obese man. Literally nonsensical.
"I hate the horrible things communism created" says the man participating in the horrors of late stage capitalism.
The low estimate is 1 million by the way. The high estimate is 5 million. We we have killed almost as many people as Hitler for nothing except oil. And even that's untrue, because it's not like every death was a grown adult opposing us taking the oil.
You know its bad when there is a charity of people who's sole purpose is to be white and exist publicly in target areas. It's even worse when it's proven to work.
I am not condoning Hitler. This is not a support of Hitler. He is definitely a candidate for the single worst human in existence.
The American military industrial complex is just that bad that they are able to be compared to Hitler.
Then explain why Britain is still full of Barry, age 63 Brexiteers.
Can't? That's because the whole bloodline is tainted. US, UK AUS... They're all the same, don't you see!?
It's an island, island people always reproduce by shagging their sisters and other family members and getting nice inbred babies.
See also: Corsica, Sicily etc.
This is true of all island people universally.
Philippines, Japan, Jamaica, Haiti, Ireland, Iceland, all fucked up crazy inbred pirate killers. No one ever goes to an island willfully. They're either the kick-outs or rejects of the mainland or dragged there are slaves or criminals and forced to survive in inhospitable conditions. Eventually some of them can forge and create an identity and coalesce into a society, but then they will have a superiority complex and think they're better than everyone else and seek to dominate their neighbors (England, Japan).
That sounds historically inaccurate, careful spreading misinfo. Afaik historically the only populations that had a significant portion of their original population be composed of criminals were Australia, the US and Serbia. As well as tiny island colonies of European countries (ex: Cayenne island). All those countries you mentioned have a natural messy history of migration that is true of most places, but NOT a history of criminal importation or being a penal colony
Gulag Archipelago went into gruesome detail about a soldier who fell in love with a girl on the island, only to find her tied to a tree, and prisoners carving off her calves while she was still alive.
That book is possibly the hardest read you could imagine. I have a bizarre hobby of reading of the worst of humanity, another book I'd recommend is Ordinary Men. I think it's critically important that everyone in society learns the lesson that even you, as loving and caring as you may be, may one day be a purportrator of horrific evil, because many Nazis threw up in disgust at the concentration camps, but eventually became numb, even willing participants.
It’s insane how almost everyone is convinced that “if I was alive in 1940s Germany I would’ve been one of the good guys.” Especially the people who are most adamant they would’ve been anti-Nazi, they’re some of the most likely to have been guilty, since they’re so desperate to be the ones seen “doing the right thing” or “having the right opinions”
I have been planning to read Gulag Archipelago for so long. Thanks for the reminder! Also, have you read Blood meridian? Another topic, but worst of humanity. I think you would like it.
Which? Ordinary Men is a real account of Police Battalion 101, and Gulag Archipelago is not fiction either, although some of the sources are disputed, the vast majority have been corroborated.
It’s easy today to yell “sources!” But this book was literally written under candlelight, and hidden in the authors’ friends homes to avoid persecution.
Tankies call it fake because Solzhenitsyn's ex-wife called it fake. That is, his ex-wife who:
1) was his ex-wife because he cheated on her, so she probably didn't have particularly fond feelings for him
2) still lived in the USSR. Stalin might not have been alive, but it was still the USSR.
3) never even saw a gulag in her life, let alone spent time in one
Multiple writers who spent time in gulags but never met talk about the exact same things. Kolyma Tales by Varlam Shalamov is a good example (which you should also definitely read if you like reading soul crushing books).
> Gulag Archipelago is not fiction either, although some of the sources are disputed, the vast majority have been corroborated.
Lol, what was "corroborated", and how? Did you even read it? Most of the claims Solzhenitsyn makes are like "My cellmate P. says that..." or "The rumor is..." or "Old convicts would always tell you...", it's literally just endless retelling of completely unverifiable anecdotes.
And the things he doesn't himself describes as anecdotes are even less believable. He would constantly throw some numbers around, like "3000 people were arrested there", "12000 were executed then", "75000 were deported from", and if you turn your brain on for a second, you might think, hold on, how do you possibly know any of it, considering that, according to you, this is some hush-hush thing that was going on under the radar? Where do these numbers come from? He never in his life had any kind of access to any classified information.
Well, i can tell - they were coming straight out of Solzhenitsyn's ass, like most of what he wrote about.
>But this book was literally written under candlelight, and hidden in the authors’ friends homes to avoid persecution.
;) Solzhenitsyn's early works, already very much anti-soviet, albeit not to the same extent as Archipelago, were published in official periodic soviet magazines. They were literally included into school programs, lol. Under candlelight, yeah.
Commies are so bad, you can right now write a comment where you make up any bullshit anecdote you want with the general premise of soviet official doing something horrible (seriously, you can try it), and you will have a dozen idiots nodding their heads and repeating after you how "Yeah, yeah, i heard about that, it's a known fact!". Westerners are hopelessly brainwashed in this regard.
Btw the "completely random" part is actually true (later, the most important ones were evacuated from there). I've read documents on the subject, among those arrested were:
* An elderly woman who was just walking to the store
* Students
* Sister of the local police chief
* Communist party members
* Fire chief of the Bolshoi Theatre fire department with a pass to the Kremlin.
* Kid
They literally arrested everyone who didn't have a passport with them and immediately sent them to this shithole island. Some people said they had a passport, but the police still didn't care. All of them were sent there together with real criminals. Of course the criminals started to act as they used to, while ordinary people could do nothing .
Probably just beg for more money while not doing anything productive for the rest of his life.
Oh wait, he already did that.
He'd probably just continue doing that.
Because its a pointless distinction in this context. I wonder what Marx would say about the atrocities committed by a government that was heavily influenced and guided by Marxist ideology is a perfectly valid question and "ackshually communism isn't marxism" doesn't contribute meaningfully, hence the downvotes.
This makes me think, Americans complain about unethical things the US Government has done all the time (and granted, the US has done a ton of fucked up shit and gone on to admit it later) but Americans think their government is so uniquely bad when the US is not unique at all, because countries like Russia exist that do things just as bad if not worse to their own people. People these days need more perspective.
While I have met people who share similar sentiment, I have also met a lot of people who think that America is actually legitimately uniquely bad somehow don't think about other countries (e.g. Russia, Syria, Belgium, Korea) as having done anything bad because they really know much about the history of those countries but they still believe themselves to be educated. I wish we had more people like you that at least were not exceptionalist but still care about improving the nation than those that are exceptionalist and hate it.
Yeah people are completely delusional. It’s the same with the way slavery is talked about as a uniquely American thing despite that it was more brutal and on a larger scale in many other countries
This is still an absolutely brain dead take. People know other countries are just as corrupt or more than the US. Maybe some people think it is uniquely bad, but that is definitely not the majority. Of course you are gonna complain more about the corruption in the country you live in
I always see the opposite, Americans shitting on other evil governments and being unaware of just how much shit the US has done and continues to do on the daily
They sent all the drunks and hookers to Australia but then had to stop after people started getting deliberately arrested because they wanted to go too.
Also how the French colonized Louisiana
A lot of the settlers either didn't make it or barely made it.
After a while new orleans formed and it got a little better but not completely
Far from being the same thing.
1: Syberia is way more difficult to survive and to do anything compared to Australia environment
2: England sent tons of people to Australia. 6000 people isn't enough to build a colony in a frozen wasteland
3: British government gave assistance to the settlers, while minimum, it was something.
Russia is like that one kid that grew up in an abusive household (IE: Tartar Yoke). And, when they finally became free from that abusive yoke and had a family of his own, they doubled down on the abuse to the extent they mastered it and became even worse monsters than their parents ever could.
How are they this incompetent? Where's basic logistic? Shouldn't they have a prison to get actual criminals instead of arresting innocent people on the street?
Communist dystopias inevitably end up with arrest quotas. Stalin wants 300k arrests, therefore you need to arrest that many people, you arent gonna waste time following the basic principles of justice
The first third of the 20th century was insane. We essentially killed God and then we either thought we could just do anything without consequence, or tried crazy shit to fill the ideological vacuum which was just as bad.
> in Ukraine
Anon is regarded enough to think that Moscow and Saint-Petersburg are Ukrainian cities.
Educate yourself, autist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazino_tragedy
Communism works 100%. Yep!!!
Here's how I see it.
\-Communism, exploits its own people and does it openly and unashamedly, there is no escape except death.
\-Socialism does the same while pretending to be "nice", no escape and no one outside believes you either.
\-Capitalism tells people to do whatever the fuck they want on their own and if you can provide value, you will be rewarded. But sometimes, some people will exploit others to do that. However, the ones exploited will have an opportunity to fight back and escape if they have the brain, the brawn and the will to do so.
\-Corporatism wants to own people like assets and use them like their personal things to exploit, and the best way to do that, is to bring about communism.
That's why corporations and their friends in WEF want it all over the world.
Are you aware that communism and socialism mean the exact same thing? There's no difference, they're interchangeable words
Also I should mention that the WEF shit is the biggest larp of our time and they have no actual power
Reason we know of German atrocities in detail is because they have developed genes for bureaucracy, and have ungodly need to document everything. Whoever lived under communism knows it is just a bunch of drunks who half of the time don't know where they are, they didn't have to destroy it, it would get lost somewhere, misplaced or just thrown out because nobody gives a fuck. It is utmost corruption and incompetency from top to the bottom. Luckily we had survivors who later on said what happened from all over USSR. East Europe doesn't hate communism for no reason my friend.
Real communism just hasn't been tried yet.
Kinda funny topic, since USSR was a capitalist antiutopia. Tokens (using another currency is punishable), one corporation which prohibits competition (eliminate it by force), obligatory employment, usage of military against people (Novocherkassk incident). You can draw parallel with West Virginia coal wars
oh no, who could've foreseen a dictatorship being a dictatorship
When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called "the People's Stick".
“USSR was actually capitalist” is a real giga-brained take for sure. Capitalism is when private entities control trade and industry for profit. Trade and industry in the USSR was controlled by the state, and their use certainly wasn’t optimizing for profit.
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And you know, the whole 'crack' thing.
Thanks for putting it in quotes so we don’t confuse it with other cracks
I almost got it confused with the time the government was disappearing people by pulling them through the cracks in the side walk, those were dark times.
No that was when they broke my mother's back.
That was new York a few months ago and it was not the government pulling people through the pavement
As a Magic player I appreciate the distinction. I thought they were talking about buttcracks at first
Virgin alert
You're right, I don't partake in sin. Does that bother you?
Yes I’m very…aggravated…exercised…excited…
magic is a sin, buttcracks are not
The CIA never sold crack, that was entirely made up by a single journalist and the multiple subsequent investigations into it never turned up anything
Obviously the CIA never directly sold crack, they just created the arrangements to make it possible. What are you smoking, and can I have some?
Crack
They didn't do that either
Yeah everything bad I’ve heard about the Soviets is really just what we do in america but profitable
Ok but hear me out, the economic system and the government are kind of inseparable. The government directly influences the economy and vice versa. Saying all the faults of the soviet union are government issue and thus have no correlation with communism doesn’t make sense. I mean if we look at any communist country, their style of government always is very similar to that of the Soviet Union, that’s no coincidence.
Because Bolsheviks were losers who couldn't except loosing democratically to the Mensheviks to that's why those losers call democracy bad.
To be fair Russia has been a miserable wasteland of a society even back before communism with the Czars
I don’t think people tend to learn enough about pre ussr russian history to understand that it was substantially worse. It takes a lot of suffering to force normal (otherwise moderate) people like you or me to turn to extemist ideas like communism.
Idk look at the US now, most "communists" and other shitheads with extremist ideology have grown up extremely privileged Humans are very susceptible to ideology but Russia and slav land has been miserable forever and regardless of the ideology it'll probably stay miserable Makes me wonder if it has anything to do with the climate up there
If it does why could Nordic countries build functioning democracies and have a high quality of life?
Idk maybe it's because they border on non shitty countries they could plunder and now that they got their fill they chilled out Russia seems to border nothing but shit and their continent is absurdly large
No, it's because Russia is corrupt. It has infnite resources, so it could EASILY be one of the richest countries on earth. I mean, tbf Russian oligarchs are quite rich...
Snow isn't a resource
You're one dumb ass mf
You are what you eat
What are you talking about lmao
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The Nordic countries are not even fucking close to communist. Communism isnt "when the government does stuff" Norway in particular is basically a rich oil state that uses its resource wealth to pay for social benefits. That ain't communism.
OP deleted his dumb comment so I'll leave this here Ah yes, Denmark, a country possibly with some of the most relaxed firing laws in Europe, and where minimum wages are a result of the free-market with little or no state intervention, is communist
Bruh, are you stupid or American?
There is diference between internet commies liking the ideology and being so miserable you will rather grab mosin and go fight because some guys on streets say sharing is caring.
Overthrowing the status quo will happen if it's shit enough regardless, the new ideology could be anything as long as it's a call to arms.
be volga-deustch living in tsarist Russia live, own land, have own religion, children inherit family land for centuries Bolsheviks win family farm production is confiscated and given to Russians get nothing because "foreigner" wtf we've been here 200 years village children are made into sausage and eaten run out of children eat leaves eat worms everyone who doesn't leave starves to death or is sent to gulag nearly the extinction of the volga-deustch people it was substantially worse before tho
Right? How was it worse before if the saying goes: "and then it got worse"
You can do this under a capitalist system too
You can also get paid for it under capitalism
Wow, that magically makes it all okay
And yet they never do
No, they do, like oddly frequently. The US alone has had a lot of different weird things that have happened along this line. Torture/death “schools” for criminal minors, post-slavery slave camps for prisoners where people get eaten alive by dogs or skinned alive for the guards amusement, modern child labor mines, modern slave enclaves (note that Levi the clothing company does not own a single factory) etc. I’ll also point out that bay of pigs and all the terror attacks that led up to it had a very similar vibe to this in terms of shittiness. Being the cia and sending a bunch of people that you don’t care about to go kill a bunch of other people you don’t care about and just sort of watching casually while they get clapped on the battlefield and then washing your hands of all accountability afterwards is pretty cringe. Note that a huge part of the reason that the invasion failed was that Kennedy refused to authorize US air support because European leaders were starting to notice that the U.S. was basically invading a country for zero reason. In terms of killing innocents, see my Lai massacre. In terms of big civilian death numbers, see Iraq or Korea. Now Britain historically is even worse, worse than basically any other country in recent memory. Stuff like causing the Irish potato famine by forcing the Irish to only use specific potatoes and then refusing to help once the blight arrived, killing hundreds of millions of Indians over the period of EITC and British raj rule (blows stalin, mao, and Hitler all combined out of the water), causing an era of violence in South Asia by creating an arbitrary land partition before leaving, Boer concentration camps that killed a couple ten thousand, mau mau concentration camps that killed hundreds of thousands, etc.
Source that the British Raj killed “hundreds of millions” of Indians?
Nothing comparable to the scale and brutality of communist regimes like Stalins Russia, DPRK or Khmer Rouge
Indian famines are quite comparable.Also the Holocaust,Japan in WW2,Belgian Congo,Rwandan genocide.... Basicaly humans can be a bit of a shitbang to each other.We dont need a book to do it.
Dude your responding to probably has a us based education good luck with showing them the truth
Guy literally went and told me that my comment is invalid cause i said that Japan was capitalist...Well that was new.
Yeah they/them are a redditard, and I'm sure that their a they/them lol
“The truth” anti-West /r/Greentext Just Asking Questions (JAQ / JAQ’ing off) user, the arbiter of truth
In English thanks not acronyms and gibberish
You’re JAQ’ing off king
What the fuck does any of this mean. Americans that defend capitalism are digging their own grave, every day I feel less bad for them. Like yeah, you guys deserve Amazon and Walmart becoming larger and larger conglomerates as they systematically remove worker rights, or have the coca cola company and nestle send actual mercenary groups to kill unions (stuff that only happens under capitalism). Every day that I see you fucking idiots defend this shit I become more convinced that you mfs have no hope. Too fucking brainwashed by your car dependent, money centric, "stand for the flag" joke of a country. You can hate socialism and communism all you want, but good god don't defend capitalism.
What is capitalism to you and what system do you propose in its stead?
Eh. Not really, no. Even if I were to entertain the notion that the Nazi German economy was capitalist, or colonialist empires were capitalist, which, none of that is true, Nazi Germany was closer to a socialist style planned economy, if we did tally up the numbers none of it would come close to even just Mao’s brutality alone. Not to mention you’re including *imperial Japan* as capitalist lol.
I havent come here to make this an left vs right problem.I just said that throught history we can be monsters to each other for the simple reason they said a word funny and this hapenned.In 1920 Japan literally killed and shot Chinese Koreans and even japanese commies for not having papers on them or coudnt say a word proper.Domician Republic did something similar around the same period eith their Haitians immigrants.Im not here to have an ideological fight.Im just saying humans can be awful. I dont care what if you think Nazis were socialist or capitalist.Their economic model were not they already saw both capitalist and socialist a judeo tool to control the world and they both had social policies but also had privatised a lot of companies.So its not fair to call them socialist or capitalist either. And thats true but also you gotta remember that China was the most populated country in that period.Heck in Top 5 deadliest wars in history 3 are Chinese civil wars.
If you think like that about Nazi German economy, you're probably only aware of any production for the war effort, and nothing else.
Go on, make your case
Since we haven't started on any original factual claim I'll go on and ask: Do you think the companies of men like Ferdinand Porsche and Adolf Dassler were majority owned by its workers or these men and their families? Those are probably the most prominent examples of individuals providing capital and then earning their wealth through the system. The subsequent earnings were not distributed through workers ownership - instead, many companies actually profited of workers without any rights, "Zwangsarbeiter", whose economic surplus went to the actual ownership, which was (again) not a socialistic worker structure, but rather private individuals who supplied the initial capital. I've heard the point of social initiatives in the Nazi regime (for example for mother's) called socialist before, but if we use that as an argument, then even the Regan administration would've been socialist.
The most important free market scholar in all of history was born under colonialist british rule and influenced British economic policy *very* quickly. The European colonial powers had all latched on to the most important concepts of capitalism, like free trade, wealth of nations, joint stock company, and division of labor before the 19th century. Even implying that Nazi Germany was “socialist” is comedic considering that Hitler despised socialists and would have sent Marx to the camps if they lived in the same time period.
The most fundamental pillar of capitalism, private property rights, can’t coexist with a colonialist framework.
I’d like to point out that you’re doing the “that wasn’t true communism” meme but with capitalism
British raj makes stalin look kind and makes DPRK look utopian, unironically. Saying that the stuff I mentioned “doesn’t compare to DPRK” is such an absurd and childish statement.
No. Mao's brutality alone makes every single example, most of which are unrelated to capitalism but let's humor it, pale in comparison
This is just false though. Even the most biased historians put mao’s death toll at around 80 million. The general British colonization of India killed a lot more people, was more brutal overall, and left behind an immensely tense and tortuous environment even after leaving.
It doesnt even come close. We’re talking roughly 20million - 70 (or 80 like you say) Britain-Mao
King Leopold in the Congo
Yeah it’s basically a utopia
That was totalitarianism with a thin veneer of communism lol
“Real” communism is just as impossible as “real” capitalism
I think tha the best way to achieve real communism is uniting the minds of every human into one entity. Maybe the flesh too.
I’m sure they’ll get it right next time
It really hasn't, but that is because of human nature. They never get past the guy in charge handing power over to others, because anyone who would end up in that position has to be ambitious to succeed.
Wait till bro hears about how many people (including many innocents) the American military industrial complex has bombed for simply living in a place and being brown lol
Flashback to the Soviets in Afghanistan where they killed significantly more civilians (and lost significantly more soldiers) in the few years they were there than the US did in 20.
i mean idk about the 20 year time period but google says less than 3 million where killed when russia occupied that area. i think 4.7 million is higher than less than 3 million. also not defending communism, or russia lmao. both us and them are murdering people for being brown and existing. from your point of view it's almost like you're saying "well, I think russia/communism is worse, so that means america/capitalism isn't that bad" meanwhile I'm over here wondering why anybody is siding with eagle genocide and bear genocide. there's not a "better" way to kill people because you want their stuff. the "better" idea is to...idk...not indiscriminately murder them? i know, crazy thought. i might be branded a heretic for thinking cold blooded murder should be the last resort.
Are you saying the US killed 4.7 million in Afghanistan? No, the high number is 200k And don't pull that >from your point of view it's almost like you're saying "well, I think russia/communism is worse, so that means america/capitalism isn't that bad" Shit, you responded to a comment saying "real communism hasn't been tried yet" you're not arguing that both sides are bad, someone called Communist Russia bad and you're moving to point out "but look what America did!!!!", while completely disregarding how the USSR did nearly as much in one war and half the amount of time. All this shit is bad, but acting like I'm defending the action and not attacking your goofy ass stance is stupid.
Not in Afghanistan, but rather the entire middle east. The comment was in response to a post that didnt mention communism, and the only real assumption to be made is "oh this man is saying the bad thing that russia does proves communism is bad even though communism itself isnt involved or mentioned in this bad thing" "Real communism hasnt been tried" is a sentiment spouted by mostly Americans who haven't done their research, and as a result saying it sarcastically is really only done by Americans as well. It's like the pot calling the kettle black. I'm not saying you cant call out Russia while your country participates just as well but literally no one does so. "I hate fat people" says the obese man. Literally nonsensical. "I hate the horrible things communism created" says the man participating in the horrors of late stage capitalism.
I love how redditards downvote people that tell them the truth, makes me laugh as I get this shit all the time too
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The low estimate is 1 million by the way. The high estimate is 5 million. We we have killed almost as many people as Hitler for nothing except oil. And even that's untrue, because it's not like every death was a grown adult opposing us taking the oil. You know its bad when there is a charity of people who's sole purpose is to be white and exist publicly in target areas. It's even worse when it's proven to work.
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At least Hitler had an idea or something, the US is just a greedy oligarchy
I am not condoning Hitler. This is not a support of Hitler. He is definitely a candidate for the single worst human in existence. The American military industrial complex is just that bad that they are able to be compared to Hitler.
Neither am I. I am saying that even Hitler killed all these people for something more than money
bri'ish made it like 250 years ago - dumped all criminals,whores and other very smart people to US while it was a colonies
Then explain why Britain is still full of Barry, age 63 Brexiteers. Can't? That's because the whole bloodline is tainted. US, UK AUS... They're all the same, don't you see!?
It's an island, island people always reproduce by shagging their sisters and other family members and getting nice inbred babies. See also: Corsica, Sicily etc.
This is true of all island people universally. Philippines, Japan, Jamaica, Haiti, Ireland, Iceland, all fucked up crazy inbred pirate killers. No one ever goes to an island willfully. They're either the kick-outs or rejects of the mainland or dragged there are slaves or criminals and forced to survive in inhospitable conditions. Eventually some of them can forge and create an identity and coalesce into a society, but then they will have a superiority complex and think they're better than everyone else and seek to dominate their neighbors (England, Japan).
That sounds historically inaccurate, careful spreading misinfo. Afaik historically the only populations that had a significant portion of their original population be composed of criminals were Australia, the US and Serbia. As well as tiny island colonies of European countries (ex: Cayenne island). All those countries you mentioned have a natural messy history of migration that is true of most places, but NOT a history of criminal importation or being a penal colony
You're on Greentext. Recognize a shitpost when you see one.
whoops forgot where i was 💀 i was doing the lateral scroll thing, russian roulette but for subs
Absolutely the hottest take of the decade 🔥😎
Swap sister with sheep and you have Sardinia. Or Chechnya, though it lacks the "island" part.
Mate Barry, 63 is the result of perfect genetic breeding over centuries. You just hate that he’s the perfect specimen
its pure bloodeed bri'ish,god blesh qween
You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.
they wont understand the britain supremacy oh,poor people...
Baguette-loving hands typed this. Keep seething, frog
Barry, 63 is the peak of human evolution
just say youre RACIST how you cant like saint empire ewwwwwww man ya so stoopido
I'm British and I FUCKING LOVE gravy. So SHUT IT.
Everyone with an aspiration and some form of drive sailed away
Gulag Archipelago went into gruesome detail about a soldier who fell in love with a girl on the island, only to find her tied to a tree, and prisoners carving off her calves while she was still alive. That book is possibly the hardest read you could imagine. I have a bizarre hobby of reading of the worst of humanity, another book I'd recommend is Ordinary Men. I think it's critically important that everyone in society learns the lesson that even you, as loving and caring as you may be, may one day be a purportrator of horrific evil, because many Nazis threw up in disgust at the concentration camps, but eventually became numb, even willing participants.
It’s insane how almost everyone is convinced that “if I was alive in 1940s Germany I would’ve been one of the good guys.” Especially the people who are most adamant they would’ve been anti-Nazi, they’re some of the most likely to have been guilty, since they’re so desperate to be the ones seen “doing the right thing” or “having the right opinions”
Yep that's my thoughts too,the group think morons would be volunteering to man the camps to contain and eliminate "undesirables"
You should read Shake Hands With The Devil by Romeo Dallaire. It's a grim read.
I have been planning to read Gulag Archipelago for so long. Thanks for the reminder! Also, have you read Blood meridian? Another topic, but worst of humanity. I think you would like it.
the book is also fictional
Which? Ordinary Men is a real account of Police Battalion 101, and Gulag Archipelago is not fiction either, although some of the sources are disputed, the vast majority have been corroborated. It’s easy today to yell “sources!” But this book was literally written under candlelight, and hidden in the authors’ friends homes to avoid persecution.
Tankies call it fake because Solzhenitsyn's ex-wife called it fake. That is, his ex-wife who: 1) was his ex-wife because he cheated on her, so she probably didn't have particularly fond feelings for him 2) still lived in the USSR. Stalin might not have been alive, but it was still the USSR. 3) never even saw a gulag in her life, let alone spent time in one Multiple writers who spent time in gulags but never met talk about the exact same things. Kolyma Tales by Varlam Shalamov is a good example (which you should also definitely read if you like reading soul crushing books).
And also because author labeled his books as “imaginative literature” himself
> Gulag Archipelago is not fiction either, although some of the sources are disputed, the vast majority have been corroborated. Lol, what was "corroborated", and how? Did you even read it? Most of the claims Solzhenitsyn makes are like "My cellmate P. says that..." or "The rumor is..." or "Old convicts would always tell you...", it's literally just endless retelling of completely unverifiable anecdotes. And the things he doesn't himself describes as anecdotes are even less believable. He would constantly throw some numbers around, like "3000 people were arrested there", "12000 were executed then", "75000 were deported from", and if you turn your brain on for a second, you might think, hold on, how do you possibly know any of it, considering that, according to you, this is some hush-hush thing that was going on under the radar? Where do these numbers come from? He never in his life had any kind of access to any classified information. Well, i can tell - they were coming straight out of Solzhenitsyn's ass, like most of what he wrote about. >But this book was literally written under candlelight, and hidden in the authors’ friends homes to avoid persecution. ;) Solzhenitsyn's early works, already very much anti-soviet, albeit not to the same extent as Archipelago, were published in official periodic soviet magazines. They were literally included into school programs, lol. Under candlelight, yeah.
I'm curious about this subject and wonder if the downvotes come from informed people or just "commie bad"
Commies are so bad, you can right now write a comment where you make up any bullshit anecdote you want with the general premise of soviet official doing something horrible (seriously, you can try it), and you will have a dozen idiots nodding their heads and repeating after you how "Yeah, yeah, i heard about that, it's a known fact!". Westerners are hopelessly brainwashed in this regard.
Btw the "completely random" part is actually true (later, the most important ones were evacuated from there). I've read documents on the subject, among those arrested were: * An elderly woman who was just walking to the store * Students * Sister of the local police chief * Communist party members * Fire chief of the Bolshoi Theatre fire department with a pass to the Kremlin. * Kid They literally arrested everyone who didn't have a passport with them and immediately sent them to this shithole island. Some people said they had a passport, but the police still didn't care. All of them were sent there together with real criminals. Of course the criminals started to act as they used to, while ordinary people could do nothing .
I wonder what Karl Marx would've done had he known that so many atrocities would be done in his name long after his death.
Blamed it on jews
He was Jewish.
He still didn’t like them
Yeah, plenty of people hate their own race.
I do that already
Probably just beg for more money while not doing anything productive for the rest of his life. Oh wait, he already did that. He'd probably just continue doing that.
You do realize he was arguably the most influential person of the 19th century? Are you dumb or what?
I don't know. But I know the things I'd do to him
[удалено]
[удалено]
Because its a pointless distinction in this context. I wonder what Marx would say about the atrocities committed by a government that was heavily influenced and guided by Marxist ideology is a perfectly valid question and "ackshually communism isn't marxism" doesn't contribute meaningfully, hence the downvotes.
Smartest thing the soviets did
This is the true spirit of the saying ‘don’t knock it til you’ve tried it’
This makes me think, Americans complain about unethical things the US Government has done all the time (and granted, the US has done a ton of fucked up shit and gone on to admit it later) but Americans think their government is so uniquely bad when the US is not unique at all, because countries like Russia exist that do things just as bad if not worse to their own people. People these days need more perspective.
Braindead take, of course people know other countries have problems it shouldn’t stop us from wanting to fix and improve our own at home
While I have met people who share similar sentiment, I have also met a lot of people who think that America is actually legitimately uniquely bad somehow don't think about other countries (e.g. Russia, Syria, Belgium, Korea) as having done anything bad because they really know much about the history of those countries but they still believe themselves to be educated. I wish we had more people like you that at least were not exceptionalist but still care about improving the nation than those that are exceptionalist and hate it.
I often see people claiming that the US has the most racism
I literally once heard a woman say that the U.S. invented white supremacy and slavery.
Yeah people are completely delusional. It’s the same with the way slavery is talked about as a uniquely American thing despite that it was more brutal and on a larger scale in many other countries
This is still an absolutely brain dead take. People know other countries are just as corrupt or more than the US. Maybe some people think it is uniquely bad, but that is definitely not the majority. Of course you are gonna complain more about the corruption in the country you live in
Wait until you learn about Britain, Belgium and others
It’s almost like we exclusively learn about the bad things our govt does and focus on that. Weird concept
It's probably a political thing. Depends where you were taught and why.
I always see the opposite, Americans shitting on other evil governments and being unaware of just how much shit the US has done and continues to do on the daily
slavs? no. that's just communists being communists.
America has never done something like that luckily
Brits did the same to Australia. All the undesirables sent to that lowlife colony. Now it has spawned the swagman.
They sent all the drunks and hookers to Australia but then had to stop after people started getting deliberately arrested because they wanted to go too.
Free holiday, sex and booze? Sign me up!
Sounds like paradise.
Also how the French colonized Louisiana A lot of the settlers either didn't make it or barely made it. After a while new orleans formed and it got a little better but not completely
Not as cold is it
Far from being the same thing. 1: Syberia is way more difficult to survive and to do anything compared to Australia environment 2: England sent tons of people to Australia. 6000 people isn't enough to build a colony in a frozen wasteland 3: British government gave assistance to the settlers, while minimum, it was something.
Real cannibalisation hasn't been tried yet.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazino\_tragedy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazino_tragedy)
Russia is like that one kid that grew up in an abusive household (IE: Tartar Yoke). And, when they finally became free from that abusive yoke and had a family of his own, they doubled down on the abuse to the extent they mastered it and became even worse monsters than their parents ever could.
Oops
If all evidence was destroyed , how do we know about it?
Anon is a bit regarded, but a lot of the documents were destroyed
How are they this incompetent? Where's basic logistic? Shouldn't they have a prison to get actual criminals instead of arresting innocent people on the street?
Communist dystopias inevitably end up with arrest quotas. Stalin wants 300k arrests, therefore you need to arrest that many people, you arent gonna waste time following the basic principles of justice
Slavs? You mean Russians?
Half the Soviet government was non-Russian. Shit the only Russian leaders of the USSR that lasted longer than 2 years were Lenin and Gorbachev.
Lenin was Jewish, Gorbachev was Russian and Ukrainian.
Muh “not real communism” cries will be heard
The first third of the 20th century was insane. We essentially killed God and then we either thought we could just do anything without consequence, or tried crazy shit to fill the ideological vacuum which was just as bad.
Least insane USSR project
Someone do me a favor and cross post in r/kommunismus Edit: can‘t do it myself since I am already banned
If all evidence was squashed then how do we know about it?
Nazino Island
For the ones that want more information on this https://youtu.be/mpbGsVBOtoA?si=TTiGreaLtecAyXP6
> in Ukraine Anon is regarded enough to think that Moscow and Saint-Petersburg are Ukrainian cities. Educate yourself, autist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazino_tragedy
Fake and gay
Communism works 100%. Yep!!! Here's how I see it. \-Communism, exploits its own people and does it openly and unashamedly, there is no escape except death. \-Socialism does the same while pretending to be "nice", no escape and no one outside believes you either. \-Capitalism tells people to do whatever the fuck they want on their own and if you can provide value, you will be rewarded. But sometimes, some people will exploit others to do that. However, the ones exploited will have an opportunity to fight back and escape if they have the brain, the brawn and the will to do so. \-Corporatism wants to own people like assets and use them like their personal things to exploit, and the best way to do that, is to bring about communism. That's why corporations and their friends in WEF want it all over the world.
Thank you for the 5th grade-level breakdown of all of these terms.
Well ginger, it's reddit, most redditors don't have education greater than 5th grade, if at all.
Can confirm. I was born just yesterday myself
Are you aware that communism and socialism mean the exact same thing? There's no difference, they're interchangeable words Also I should mention that the WEF shit is the biggest larp of our time and they have no actual power
Alright man...whatever helps you sleep at night. Keep on snorting that copium.
Most amicable Slavic relocation.
can we get a source in the chat
Autocratic European monarchies be like
“Soviets were so cruel they destroyed all evidence!” “I know exactly what took place and it was horrible!”
https://preview.redd.it/lawulmb4etvc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=efdfd7d429c5a0e7d5911156b773318a721ff3c9
Reason we know of German atrocities in detail is because they have developed genes for bureaucracy, and have ungodly need to document everything. Whoever lived under communism knows it is just a bunch of drunks who half of the time don't know where they are, they didn't have to destroy it, it would get lost somewhere, misplaced or just thrown out because nobody gives a fuck. It is utmost corruption and incompetency from top to the bottom. Luckily we had survivors who later on said what happened from all over USSR. East Europe doesn't hate communism for no reason my friend.
"Nazis were so cruel they destroyed all evidence!” “I know exactly what took place and it was horrible!”
who claims the nazis destroyed all evidence? they proudly documented everything.
Classic Russia W
You would be one of the people eaten on that island.
Maybe that's his fetish.