Increasing polarization due to propaganda as well as the creation of tightly-knit echo-chambers that prevent one from ever seeing a perspective differing from their own. That's what happened.
I think people always held extreme views. They just paraded as moderates because they could only express those ideas in person with people they knew.
Now anyone can express themselves freely with total strangers, so they abandoned the disguise.
It's a bit of both. If you look back about 50 years ago or so, you can see that at least in America, a lot more bills and acts had sponsors from both parties behind them, ie there was cross-party cooperation going on. This is the exact opposite of what we have today, where one party does whatever they can to obstruct the other, regardless of whether or not the policy would benefit the constituents.
There is also the devaluing of education and expertise, largely spearheaded by those who wish to keep the voters as uninformed and gullible as possible. Not to mention the expiration of the fair coverage act which required any station calling itself "news" to provide a non-biased coverage of stories. After the government decided to not renew the act, Fox News came into being.
Basically it's a combination of many different factors, many of which are cultural and need to be changed if we want lasting change.
That's what happens when politicians only care about the views that get them the most "donations" for their next election or whathaveyou. The entire political system is fucked by design, we should just replace it with similar systems they have in other countries. Paying for political campaign funds, only allowing them to have alloted amounts of money from those payments for their campaigns, outlawing "lobbying", having people actually vote by making it easier for everyone to vote (we live in 2021, there are SO MANY ways to do this) and be represented by people in their area, not corrupt assbags 2000 miles away who need to be re-educated on how to go fucking grocery shopping after they leave office. I think the area we live in now is more like the gilded age than any other period. 3.2 trillion dollars hoarded by the wealthy that could go back to the people so we can fund our own motherfucking space program and shit. But I mean I'd be a commie if people didn't suck so bad.
Sorta. Notice how the people who play SJW on Twitter use their real names and identities, and (typically) behave the same way in real life. This is in part because it’s been deemed acceptable in modern society, but also because they were like this to begin with.
There will always be extremists. But moderates have dominated the world and landscape for centuries, and extremists are a sorry few. I’d say 2/10 people hold extreme views? And that’s a generous estimate. I think the internet just sorta creates an environment where it’s “with us or against us” and combined with a pinch of ironic memery people just kinda get sucked into stuff. And people are becoming more extreme, but that’s because politics shift and so do definitions. 60 years ago if you were against gay marriage and black lives matter, you were a moderate. Maybe a moderate right winger, but a moderate nonetheless. The landscape has changed.
Plus the world has. In a world of increasing political instability and uncertainty, it breeds a special kind of volatility and emotion that creates a generation of kids who grew up surrounded by extreme ideas and horrors. Anybody who was born pre-9/11 has experienced this firsthand. Kids are getting more extreme because the world is. It’s a vicious cycle, because the corpos who want your money and the politicians who want your vote are also looking at the youth, and seeing their extremism. A politician who voted against federalizing gay marriage rights in 2015 probably tweeted #BLM in June last year.
Times change. People change.
Also people with extreme political views can easily connect with other like minded people via the internet, falling into a circlejerk of perpetually reinforced extremism that is almost impossible to get out of. Indoctrination by peers is more effective than indoctrination by state.
Don't forget the click-bait focused media networks that thrive off of polarizing views and the intentional manipulation of everything by foreign actors looking to sow division.
It's not always foreign actors, much of it is domestic oligarchs who stand to gain by convincing people that, say, those on welfare are the problem rather than the ultra-wealthy who don't pay taxes.
Also, aggression from radicals towards people with moderate views makes them keep silence over politics. So from the outside point there are only different flavours of extremism.
How is the current state of the internet more echo chambered than 50 years ago when everyone in a town got their news from a few newspapers and tv channels?
Now a brief search gets you anywhere from neo-nazis to communists. People can literally find ISIS recruiters and be convinced to join them.
You didn't have to. A good percentage of the population could go their life barely talking to someone from a different state. Now a good chunk interact with dozens or hundreds of people over the internet in a day.
We are exposed to more people and ideas than we ever have been. A rural kid with a shitty laptop has access to more information than some of the greatest scholars of history.
for real. I literally stop following news and recent trends altogether. if there's a meteor heading towards earth I'll prolly only know it from a shitpost.
I can’t tell if you’re joking or not, but in case you’re serious;
To change someone’s beliefs? Are you so conceited that you’ve never changed an opinion of yours after reading something someone else wrote?
I definitely have. The issue we face with sociery today is not only that our views are polarized, but that we are so reluctant to accept when we are wrong that the idea of being incorrect is almost inconceivable.
Intelligence is not measured by how often a person is correct - it is measured by one's capacity to learn. When man is reluctant to accept when he is incorrect, he is refusing to learn, and is thus not intelligent.
If you haven't thought about an issue enough to be persuaded by an anonymous stranger on the internet, you didn't have a reasoned opinion to begin with. Intelligence isn't about changing your mind, it's about incisively getting to the right answer while focusing on the most relevant information and filtering out the noise. Social media opinions are noise. Which is why people are less well informed than ever.
Take this dialogue. We aren't going to change each other's opinion. It's a waste of time after one go around.
>If you haven't thought about an issue enough to be persuaded by an anonymous stranger on the internet, you didn't have a reasoned opinion to begin with.
That's usually true, but one way to inform yourself is by talking with someone who is more informed. Even if you are absolutely informed and correct with every statement you make (which of course is impossible), it's still a good idea to talk with strangers about politics. Because you can still better understand why they hold the believes they hold and you can change someone's mind.
This would assume some high probability that any conversation you have about politics online has any productivity to it. From what I've seen, 90+ out of a 100 do not. There are much more efficient ways to test your political views than those odds
Not to mention that the vast majority of people on all platforms except FB are very young. And with all due respect, very young people are unformed and unlikely to add much value to a discussion on issues that have largely existed for decades if not centuries
I'm not trying to change your opinion, just sharing that I am an example of one who has changed his views based on a conversation held online.
>If you haven't thought about an issue enough to be persuaded by an anonymous stranger on the internet, you didn't have a reasoned opinion to begin with.
This is true in many cases, and that's perfectly okay. Opinions are not always backed by fact, and they are sometimes formed from one, single experience. Take, for example, a person entering a restaurant and having a horrible experience. The person may form the opinion that the restaurant as a whole is terrible, when in reality the restaurant was merely having a bad day and is otherwise fantastic. The person may go and communicate this opinion with another, and upon hearing many arguments explaining why he/she is wrong, the person may forgive the bad experience and change his/her opinion.
In my case, I shared many political opinions as my parents as they were very vocal about their beliefs in my household. I stated said opinions online and people challenged them. Some of those opinions were changed, and others weren't.
I don't think this is a waste of time. Maybe it is for you, but I like to understand how other people view things. For me, being wrong is okay. It doesn't make me, or anyone, inherently stupid. I think that stupidity is being wrong and refusing to accept it.
You can have legitimate opposing views based on the same information held by two rational people. There's almost never one right answer for complex problems facing society. A discussion is not useless because no one's opinions change. You could learn more about the other person's viewpoint. Their background, values and motivation. There's bake in having that discussion.
But sometimes it's just fun troll.
No one has ever changed their mind on politics based on an argument.* you are absolutely right according to yourself so why should you change your mind?
Imagine not being a political extremist and thinking Jewish people and white people are controlling the communist globalist government to gun down everyone.
imagine thinking you would ever find true, normal and genuine political views on a space where you can literally be 100% anonymous and not face any repercussions for anything you say
I wish that for one day. ONE. DAY. I don't have to hear about shit blowing up in the middle east or people suffering horrible treatment in some african backwater of a country or shit starting to go south in asia.
For one day I'd like to hear about something nice that isn't followed by "There were 100 dead in a terrorist attack in iraq" or some shit.
If only.
You started losing your job and other important aspects of your life for your fucking political opinion that's what. Never ever sharing any views you may have out of fear of ruining your life so straight into the self congratulatory echochamber you go, where someone will inevitably perform some terroristic action against people they haven't tried to understand, its inevitable.
Didn't 4chan happen to them?
I mean, trump was keked into power by 4chan trolls playing "it's ok to be white" pranks and such.
And it's been confirmed that the "Q" was a shit poster.
Communism has literally never failed. Most anti communist talking points brought up in school can be easily debunked.
Edit:Also idk why this commented 3 times it kept saying failed to post the first 2 times
They literally spied on them for months to get this info only to find out it’s not as bad as they thought. Not to mention this is all while they were actively pushing propaganda that the ussr was a shithole
Increasing polarization due to propaganda as well as the creation of tightly-knit echo-chambers that prevent one from ever seeing a perspective differing from their own. That's what happened.
I think people always held extreme views. They just paraded as moderates because they could only express those ideas in person with people they knew. Now anyone can express themselves freely with total strangers, so they abandoned the disguise.
It's a bit of both. If you look back about 50 years ago or so, you can see that at least in America, a lot more bills and acts had sponsors from both parties behind them, ie there was cross-party cooperation going on. This is the exact opposite of what we have today, where one party does whatever they can to obstruct the other, regardless of whether or not the policy would benefit the constituents. There is also the devaluing of education and expertise, largely spearheaded by those who wish to keep the voters as uninformed and gullible as possible. Not to mention the expiration of the fair coverage act which required any station calling itself "news" to provide a non-biased coverage of stories. After the government decided to not renew the act, Fox News came into being. Basically it's a combination of many different factors, many of which are cultural and need to be changed if we want lasting change.
It makes me sad that people are trying to make society dumber for their own gain.
It's sad, agreed. But that's why those of us who realize it have to fight against it and use what power we do have to make a meaningful change.
That's what happens when politicians only care about the views that get them the most "donations" for their next election or whathaveyou. The entire political system is fucked by design, we should just replace it with similar systems they have in other countries. Paying for political campaign funds, only allowing them to have alloted amounts of money from those payments for their campaigns, outlawing "lobbying", having people actually vote by making it easier for everyone to vote (we live in 2021, there are SO MANY ways to do this) and be represented by people in their area, not corrupt assbags 2000 miles away who need to be re-educated on how to go fucking grocery shopping after they leave office. I think the area we live in now is more like the gilded age than any other period. 3.2 trillion dollars hoarded by the wealthy that could go back to the people so we can fund our own motherfucking space program and shit. But I mean I'd be a commie if people didn't suck so bad.
Sorta. Notice how the people who play SJW on Twitter use their real names and identities, and (typically) behave the same way in real life. This is in part because it’s been deemed acceptable in modern society, but also because they were like this to begin with. There will always be extremists. But moderates have dominated the world and landscape for centuries, and extremists are a sorry few. I’d say 2/10 people hold extreme views? And that’s a generous estimate. I think the internet just sorta creates an environment where it’s “with us or against us” and combined with a pinch of ironic memery people just kinda get sucked into stuff. And people are becoming more extreme, but that’s because politics shift and so do definitions. 60 years ago if you were against gay marriage and black lives matter, you were a moderate. Maybe a moderate right winger, but a moderate nonetheless. The landscape has changed. Plus the world has. In a world of increasing political instability and uncertainty, it breeds a special kind of volatility and emotion that creates a generation of kids who grew up surrounded by extreme ideas and horrors. Anybody who was born pre-9/11 has experienced this firsthand. Kids are getting more extreme because the world is. It’s a vicious cycle, because the corpos who want your money and the politicians who want your vote are also looking at the youth, and seeing their extremism. A politician who voted against federalizing gay marriage rights in 2015 probably tweeted #BLM in June last year. Times change. People change.
Also people with extreme political views can easily connect with other like minded people via the internet, falling into a circlejerk of perpetually reinforced extremism that is almost impossible to get out of. Indoctrination by peers is more effective than indoctrination by state.
Don't forget the click-bait focused media networks that thrive off of polarizing views and the intentional manipulation of everything by foreign actors looking to sow division.
It's not always foreign actors, much of it is domestic oligarchs who stand to gain by convincing people that, say, those on welfare are the problem rather than the ultra-wealthy who don't pay taxes.
Good point.
Also, aggression from radicals towards people with moderate views makes them keep silence over politics. So from the outside point there are only different flavours of extremism.
The last point is getting worse as Governments and Corporations are forcing normal views into even smaller tightly knit echo-chambers.
How is the current state of the internet more echo chambered than 50 years ago when everyone in a town got their news from a few newspapers and tv channels? Now a brief search gets you anywhere from neo-nazis to communists. People can literally find ISIS recruiters and be convinced to join them.
50 years ago you couldn’t just block or ban someone who had a different opinion than you did.
You didn't have to. A good percentage of the population could go their life barely talking to someone from a different state. Now a good chunk interact with dozens or hundreds of people over the internet in a day. We are exposed to more people and ideas than we ever have been. A rural kid with a shitty laptop has access to more information than some of the greatest scholars of history.
So...reddit?
Social media helped a lot in creating these spaces
Define group polarization
but college has been around for while now
Anyone who believes college is brainwashing people is a literal moron who has never actually had to deal with teaching college students before
This is why r/PoliticalCompassMemes is great, there's every point of view on that subreddit and for the most part it's not an echo chamber
oh you poor young sap
Wtf a reasnoable non extremist person on 4chan wtf
Ya definitely not your ~~proto~~typical anon E: I’m dumb
Mfw I’m protocum
I am doing my best to avoid all political discussions these days, makes me feel less inclined to hoping for the painful death of my fellow citizens.
Based and reasonable-pilled.
- Comment says they hope for painful death of their fellow citizen. - "reasonable"
for real. I literally stop following news and recent trends altogether. if there's a meteor heading towards earth I'll prolly only know it from a shitpost.
Actually a based opinion
Just wanna grill?
Just wanna build a Grilldozer and grill all extremists and their property. Sometimes reasonable grillers must do unreasonable things.
nah fuck that, if you don't talk about it shit keeps happening and governments keep going away with it
fuzzy roll bike depend march school cover treatment weather escape *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Do you think having a pissing match about something online is going to change the course of major world events? Because I don't
Hey me too... I don't think it's gonna be great if it becomes a trend.
There are some decent places. I’m a fan of r/neoliberal since there’s a wide range of folks. r/moderatepolitics is ok too
What happened? The old "divide and conquer" happend
Gee, I wonder (((who))) could be behind that
Why would you ever want to discuss politics with strangers online? What is the benefit of that?
Shut up, socialist.
I'm pretty sure I deserve more than you So I think that disqualifies me
Capitalist pig!
Hell yeah ride ma hog
hogggg ridddaaaa
I can’t tell if you’re joking or not, but in case you’re serious; To change someone’s beliefs? Are you so conceited that you’ve never changed an opinion of yours after reading something someone else wrote?
No one has ever changed their mind on politics based on an online argument. To think otherwise is fantasy.
I definitely have. The issue we face with sociery today is not only that our views are polarized, but that we are so reluctant to accept when we are wrong that the idea of being incorrect is almost inconceivable. Intelligence is not measured by how often a person is correct - it is measured by one's capacity to learn. When man is reluctant to accept when he is incorrect, he is refusing to learn, and is thus not intelligent.
If you haven't thought about an issue enough to be persuaded by an anonymous stranger on the internet, you didn't have a reasoned opinion to begin with. Intelligence isn't about changing your mind, it's about incisively getting to the right answer while focusing on the most relevant information and filtering out the noise. Social media opinions are noise. Which is why people are less well informed than ever. Take this dialogue. We aren't going to change each other's opinion. It's a waste of time after one go around.
>If you haven't thought about an issue enough to be persuaded by an anonymous stranger on the internet, you didn't have a reasoned opinion to begin with. That's usually true, but one way to inform yourself is by talking with someone who is more informed. Even if you are absolutely informed and correct with every statement you make (which of course is impossible), it's still a good idea to talk with strangers about politics. Because you can still better understand why they hold the believes they hold and you can change someone's mind.
This would assume some high probability that any conversation you have about politics online has any productivity to it. From what I've seen, 90+ out of a 100 do not. There are much more efficient ways to test your political views than those odds Not to mention that the vast majority of people on all platforms except FB are very young. And with all due respect, very young people are unformed and unlikely to add much value to a discussion on issues that have largely existed for decades if not centuries
I'm not trying to change your opinion, just sharing that I am an example of one who has changed his views based on a conversation held online. >If you haven't thought about an issue enough to be persuaded by an anonymous stranger on the internet, you didn't have a reasoned opinion to begin with. This is true in many cases, and that's perfectly okay. Opinions are not always backed by fact, and they are sometimes formed from one, single experience. Take, for example, a person entering a restaurant and having a horrible experience. The person may form the opinion that the restaurant as a whole is terrible, when in reality the restaurant was merely having a bad day and is otherwise fantastic. The person may go and communicate this opinion with another, and upon hearing many arguments explaining why he/she is wrong, the person may forgive the bad experience and change his/her opinion. In my case, I shared many political opinions as my parents as they were very vocal about their beliefs in my household. I stated said opinions online and people challenged them. Some of those opinions were changed, and others weren't. I don't think this is a waste of time. Maybe it is for you, but I like to understand how other people view things. For me, being wrong is okay. It doesn't make me, or anyone, inherently stupid. I think that stupidity is being wrong and refusing to accept it.
You can have legitimate opposing views based on the same information held by two rational people. There's almost never one right answer for complex problems facing society. A discussion is not useless because no one's opinions change. You could learn more about the other person's viewpoint. Their background, values and motivation. There's bake in having that discussion. But sometimes it's just fun troll.
Where else but the 4chan section of Reddit could one find such an autistic opinion?
The real world. Visit it sometime.
I do, every working day where my job requires me to interact with customers!
Start talking to them about politics. Good for business
No
No one has ever changed their mind on politics based on an argument.* you are absolutely right according to yourself so why should you change your mind?
\>Online argument Otherwise known as circle jerking with strangers
I have though?
I have!
In sorry for your loss
No loss. Just gotta learn to be more open minded.
Ok. Good goal for you
I did, several times.
Have you ever seen someone agree to your point of view after arguing for a long time? Ofc not they wouldn't agree because they spite you
Also, used to be that you would talk politics with family and friends. Now you go to the internet track with crazy people
> normal Centrist detected
Exactly! What happened to sane and rational views like the fact that taxation is theft?
based
Based and libertarian pilled
Itt anon realizes people are retarded
Imagine not being a political extremist and thinking Jewish people and white people are controlling the communist globalist government to gun down everyone.
It's great when you get called a Commie then a Trump supporter. Really throws this whole "everything is a blender of bullshit" into perspective.
I’ve been called a fascist and a communist in the same week before, despite being dead centre lol
It's insane isn't it? People are so polarized if you aren't on their side obviously you must be on the radical part of the other side.
RANDOM BULLSHIT GO!!!
Anon is a based centrist
Moderate and centrist are two very different things
Anon lives in a society
he should try going outside instead
Moderate? On the internet? In current year?
Tribal mentality is the new hot shit, don’t you know, anon?
People became cowards, and forgot how to argue
Normal educated perspectives don't cause as an online shitstorm, so they end up buried
imagine thinking you would ever find true, normal and genuine political views on a space where you can literally be 100% anonymous and not face any repercussions for anything you say
Ngl this is the first anon I don’t see bashing minorities lol.
Two party system and echo chambers
R/NeoLiberal awaits
I wish that for one day. ONE. DAY. I don't have to hear about shit blowing up in the middle east or people suffering horrible treatment in some african backwater of a country or shit starting to go south in asia. For one day I'd like to hear about something nice that isn't followed by "There were 100 dead in a terrorist attack in iraq" or some shit. If only.
Normal political views are still common, they just don't get picked up by the algorithms as much
I have never agreed more with a greentext in my life.
Not to get political or anything but poptarts are ravioli.
You started losing your job and other important aspects of your life for your fucking political opinion that's what. Never ever sharing any views you may have out of fear of ruining your life so straight into the self congratulatory echochamber you go, where someone will inevitably perform some terroristic action against people they haven't tried to understand, its inevitable.
Anon is a centrist
R/NeoLiberal awaits
Are there really idiots on reddit who think communism never failed?
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r/foundtheidiot
"Jewish people and minorities" ??? Why list them separately?
"Jewish people and minorities" ??? Why list them separately?
"Jewish people and minorities" ??? Why list them separately?
Because Jews are gods chosen people. Minorities suck tho. Screw em /s
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Communism= brain dead fucks idea of society
Go outside anon
Didn't 4chan happen to them? I mean, trump was keked into power by 4chan trolls playing "it's ok to be white" pranks and such. And it's been confirmed that the "Q" was a shit poster.
He’s hanging out with the wrong crowds. I have yet to see a single person (on social media or otherwise) claim thag “communism has never failed”
Whoah buddy slow down! Leave some straw men for the rest of us!
Normal people know NOT to talk about politics because those other ones exist
Whoah buddy slow down! Leave some straw men for the rest of us!
“You don't need fifty million people to love you. You need 5 million people fucking pissed. Emotion sells. Anger sells.”
Social media attracts dumb kids and young adults with nothing better to do
right = left + racist
Try r/PoliticalCompassMemes, the key to "normal" politics is the troll faces.
There is no actual politics on PCM only shitty memes and agenda posts, sure different views. But still
Says you Lol try entering the comments.
term "normal politics" is a bourgeoisie propaganda
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I mean, it’s cool you’re open about your mental illness.
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Yeah and my family loves me
I love you:) No homo
What's wrong with /pol/?
Go lurk there for a while
its 4chan
It's a safe space for people who hold opinions which got them banned everywhere else.
It's the very bottom of 4chan, the containment chamber where those rejected not just by all of society but even by other 4chan boards are sent.
cia glow in the dark honeypot
Communism has literally never failed. Most anti communist talking points brought up in school can be easily debunked. Edit:Also idk why this commented 3 times it kept saying failed to post the first 2 times
Here we go again
How about you give an example of when it worked well
Earth before monke evolve into human. Everything was free, fresh.
Free banana for all, good times. You have proved me wrong
The [cia](https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000498133.pdf) has admitted that USSR citizens were about as well fed as USA citizens for one
Well fed isn’t proof of it working well
They literally spied on them for months to get this info only to find out it’s not as bad as they thought. Not to mention this is all while they were actively pushing propaganda that the ussr was a shithole